Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

What do the extra contacts on hotshoe do? (v3 related)

Tags:
Last response: in Digital Camera
Share
March 1, 2005 3:02:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I was playing with my Sony DSC-V3 when I remembered I had a Vivitar
2800-D in a bag with my old Cannon EF (cannon required content). I
wonder if this thing works on my new Sony. The EF (film slr has
contacts + edge).

I see that my flash has 4 contact points plus the contact that catches
the edge of hot shoe making 5 contact points. I snap it on, turn on
the power and take some shots. Wow! seems to work.

Pretty good considering I bought the flash to do my sister's wedding
and her 8 year old son wasn't born at the time. The use before date
on the duracells is Jan 2002.

So now I am wondering what I am missing since the V3 has one more
contact than my flash? What does that one do?

BTW, if anyone has the 2800-D, not the 2800, if you could scan the
manual and e-mail it to my address in sig line, that would be really
nice. Vivitar seems to want me to pay a 3rd party 10 bucks to
download a pdf. I'd don't think I want the manual that badly.

Thanks,

Wes
--
Reply to:
Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Gee Tee EYE EYE dot COM
Lycos address is a spam trap.
March 1, 2005 3:02:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

clu...@lycos.com wrote:
> I was playing with my Sony DSC-V3 when I remembered I had a Vivitar
> 2800-D in a bag with my old Cannon EF (cannon required content). I
> wonder if this thing works on my new Sony. The EF (film slr has
> contacts + edge).
>
> I see that my flash has 4 contact points plus the contact that
catches
> the edge of hot shoe making 5 contact points. I snap it on, turn on
> the power and take some shots. Wow! seems to work.
>
> Pretty good considering I bought the flash to do my sister's wedding
> and her 8 year old son wasn't born at the time. The use before date
> on the duracells is Jan 2002.
>
> So now I am wondering what I am missing since the V3 has one more
> contact than my flash? What does that one do?
>
> BTW, if anyone has the 2800-D, not the 2800, if you could scan the
> manual and e-mail it to my address in sig line, that would be really
> nice. Vivitar seems to want me to pay a 3rd party 10 bucks to
> download a pdf. I'd don't think I want the manual that badly.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wes
> --
> Reply to:
> Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Gee Tee EYE EYE dot COM
> Lycos address is a spam trap.

The extra contacts are for TTL ("through the lens") control of a
dedicated flash. It's very nice to have, but not absolutely necessary,
especially if you understand how to use a flash manually.

HOWEVER! I'll warn you to be VERY careful of the old Vivitar - the
"trigger voltage" could be so high it could damage your V3. I don't
know where it is anymore, but I've seen a webpage that reports of the
trigger voltage for a bunch of flashes - maybe some of the other
net'zens here will be able to find it. You should also check in your V3
manual for trigger voltage - what the maximum recommended is. Some
digital cameras have a circuit to protect the camera from the higher
voltage, most new cameras don't.

Good Luck!
ECM
March 1, 2005 3:53:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"ECM" <thedeepabyss@whoever.com> wrote:

>The extra contacts are for TTL ("through the lens") control of a
>dedicated flash. It's very nice to have, but not absolutely necessary,
>especially if you understand how to use a flash manually.
>
>HOWEVER! I'll warn you to be VERY careful of the old Vivitar - the
>"trigger voltage" could be so high it could damage your V3. I don't
>know where it is anymore, but I've seen a webpage that reports of the
>trigger voltage for a bunch of flashes - maybe some of the other
>net'zens here will be able to find it. You should also check in your V3
>manual for trigger voltage - what the maximum recommended is. Some
>digital cameras have a circuit to protect the camera from the higher
>voltage, most new cameras don't.
>
>Good Luck!
>ECM


I see about 4.6 volts from center pin to edge with my trusty old vom.
I guess that part is likely okay. I HOPE.

Just for grins, I checked voltage as I pressed the manual flash button
on back of unit, other than causing my DISH 508 pvr to change to a
theme menu, I didn't see any high volts. I think I get you on
voltage. Back in the old days there were mechanical contacts and some
serious volts were turned loose.

Thanks,

Wes
--
Reply to:
Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Gee Tee EYE EYE dot COM
Lycos address is a spam trap.
Related resources
March 1, 2005 3:54:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

clutch@lycos.com wrote:

> BTW, if anyone has the 2800-D, not the 2800, if you could scan the

The D means dedicated. It might have the same manual as the 2800, since
most of the features would be the same. In reality, I don't think I've
ever had a manual for a flash -- other than the fancy manufacturer
flashes, they're mostly not that complicated.

The website that discusses the issues involved with trigger voltages is
here:

http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html

What the extra contacts *mainly* do is allow the camera to control the
flash. Since your camera doesn't have pins to do the controlling, then
you need to either set the flash and the camera into manual mode and set
them both up, or you need to set the flash to an automatic mode, and set
the aperature on the camera to match. There's usually a dial on the back
that you use to determine the aperature.

With a digital camera it is very easy to experiment with the settings to
determine what works well in any given situation.

Bob
March 1, 2005 5:41:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <11297svf3dj51b2@news.supernews.com>, clutch@lycos.com says...
> I was playing with my Sony DSC-V3 when I remembered I had a Vivitar
> 2800-D in a bag with my old Cannon EF (cannon required content). I
> wonder if this thing works on my new Sony. The EF (film slr has
> contacts + edge).
>
> I see that my flash has 4 contact points plus the contact that catches
> the edge of hot shoe making 5 contact points. I snap it on, turn on
> the power and take some shots. Wow! seems to work.
>
> Pretty good considering I bought the flash to do my sister's wedding
> and her 8 year old son wasn't born at the time. The use before date
> on the duracells is Jan 2002.
>
> So now I am wondering what I am missing since the V3 has one more
> contact than my flash? What does that one do?
>
> BTW, if anyone has the 2800-D, not the 2800, if you could scan the
> manual and e-mail it to my address in sig line, that would be really
> nice. Vivitar seems to want me to pay a 3rd party 10 bucks to
> download a pdf. I'd don't think I want the manual that badly.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wes
>

The multiple contacts on the Sony V3 are for the Sony proprietary flash unit
HVL-F32X, which is VERY expensive, but has two fully automatic TTL modes when
used with a Sony camera disigned for it. (V1, F-828, and V3).

Auto- A mode: full automode with preflash for exposure setting.

Auto- B mode: Automatic mode without preflash (camera tells flash how much
light)

Manual - power settings for 1/32, 1/16, 1/8, 1/2, and full power.

Also built in is a focus assist light (soft red light) and a back-light for
the LCD readout on the back.

Also has a "modeling" button and a slide out and down "Wide angle" diffuser.

A good flash, but at $199.00 (US) its a tad expensive.


--
Larry Lynch
Mystic, Ct.
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 8:07:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

clutch@lycos.com wrote:
> I was playing with my Sony DSC-V3 when I remembered I had a Vivitar
> 2800-D in a bag with my old Cannon EF (cannon required content). I
> wonder if this thing works on my new Sony. The EF (film slr has
> contacts + edge).
>
> I see that my flash has 4 contact points plus the contact that catches
> the edge of hot shoe making 5 contact points. I snap it on, turn on
> the power and take some shots. Wow! seems to work.
>
> Pretty good considering I bought the flash to do my sister's wedding
> and her 8 year old son wasn't born at the time. The use before date
> on the duracells is Jan 2002.
>
> So now I am wondering what I am missing since the V3 has one more
> contact than my flash? What does that one do?
>
> BTW, if anyone has the 2800-D, not the 2800, if you could scan the
> manual and e-mail it to my address in sig line, that would be really
> nice. Vivitar seems to want me to pay a 3rd party 10 bucks to
> download a pdf. I'd don't think I want the manual that badly.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wes

First I suggest that you make sure any flash you use is compatible with
your camera. Some, especially old flashes, have a higher voltage - current
trip circuit that can damage the electronics of your newer digital camera.

As for what the extra contacts do, many things. They can tell the flash
to set off some pre-flashes to reduce red eye, change angle of projection to
accommodate zoom lens, send information from the camera for various
exposure-power output.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 8:45:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

<clutch@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:11297svf3dj51b2@news.supernews.com...
> I was playing with my Sony DSC-V3 when I remembered I had a Vivitar
> 2800-D in a bag with my old Cannon EF (cannon required content). I
> wonder if this thing works on my new Sony. The EF (film slr has
> contacts + edge).
>
> I see that my flash has 4 contact points plus the contact that catches
> the edge of hot shoe making 5 contact points. I snap it on, turn on
> the power and take some shots. Wow! seems to work.
>
> Pretty good considering I bought the flash to do my sister's wedding
> and her 8 year old son wasn't born at the time. The use before date
> on the duracells is Jan 2002.
>
> So now I am wondering what I am missing since the V3 has one more
> contact than my flash? What does that one do?
>
> BTW, if anyone has the 2800-D, not the 2800, if you could scan the
> manual and e-mail it to my address in sig line, that would be really
> nice. Vivitar seems to want me to pay a 3rd party 10 bucks to
> download a pdf. I'd don't think I want the manual that badly.
>
> Thanks,
>
Try this link:-
http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html

John
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 8:45:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"ECM" <thedeepabyss@whoever.com> wrote in message
news:1109697026.609322.239140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> clu...@lycos.com wrote:
> > I was playing with my Sony DSC-V3 when I remembered I had a Vivitar
> > 2800-D in a bag with my old Cannon EF (cannon required content). I
> > wonder if this thing works on my new Sony. The EF (film slr has
> > contacts + edge).
> >
> > I see that my flash has 4 contact points plus the contact that
> catches
> > the edge of hot shoe making 5 contact points. I snap it on, turn on
> > the power and take some shots. Wow! seems to work.
> >
> > Pretty good considering I bought the flash to do my sister's wedding
> > and her 8 year old son wasn't born at the time. The use before date
> > on the duracells is Jan 2002.
> >
> > So now I am wondering what I am missing since the V3 has one more
> > contact than my flash? What does that one do?
> >
> > BTW, if anyone has the 2800-D, not the 2800, if you could scan the
> > manual and e-mail it to my address in sig line, that would be really
> > nice. Vivitar seems to want me to pay a 3rd party 10 bucks to
> > download a pdf. I'd don't think I want the manual that badly.
> >
Try this link!

http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html

John
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 10:47:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

clutch@lycos.com wrote:
> "ECM" <thedeepabyss@whoever.com> wrote:
>
>> The extra contacts are for TTL ("through the lens") control of a
>> dedicated flash. It's very nice to have, but not absolutely
>> necessary, especially if you understand how to use a flash manually.
>>
>> HOWEVER! I'll warn you to be VERY careful of the old Vivitar - the
>> "trigger voltage" could be so high it could damage your V3. I don't
>> know where it is anymore, but I've seen a webpage that reports of the
>> trigger voltage for a bunch of flashes - maybe some of the other
>> net'zens here will be able to find it. You should also check in your
>> V3 manual for trigger voltage - what the maximum recommended is. Some
>> digital cameras have a circuit to protect the camera from the higher
>> voltage, most new cameras don't.
>>
>> Good Luck!
>> ECM
>
>
> I see about 4.6 volts from center pin to edge with my trusty old vom.
> I guess that part is likely okay. I HOPE.
>
> Just for grins, I checked voltage as I pressed the manual flash button
> on back of unit, other than causing my DISH 508 pvr to change to a
> theme menu, I didn't see any high volts. I think I get you on
> voltage. Back in the old days there were mechanical contacts and some
> serious volts were turned loose.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wes

I would not rely on that. The trigger voltage is difficult to measure
with general purpose equipment.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
March 1, 2005 10:47:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Joseph Meehan wrote:

>>
>>I see about 4.6 volts from center pin to edge with my trusty old vom.
>>I guess that part is likely okay. I HOPE.
>>
>>Just for grins, I checked voltage as I pressed the manual flash button
>>on back of unit, other than causing my DISH 508 pvr to change to a
>>theme menu, I didn't see any high volts. I think I get you on
>>voltage. Back in the old days there were mechanical contacts and some
>>serious volts were turned loose.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Wes
>
>
> I would not rely on that. The trigger voltage is difficult to measure
> with general purpose equipment.
>

How do you figgure? The trigger voltage is the voltage that is present
on the terminals when the flash is waiting to be told to fire. There's
nothing particularly hard about measuring a constant DC voltage.

Bob
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 11:23:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"bob" <not@not.not> wrote in message
news:Z14Vd.20382$Q47.1342@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> Joseph Meehan wrote:
>
>>>
>>>I see about 4.6 volts from center pin to edge with my trusty old vom.
>>>I guess that part is likely okay. I HOPE.
>>>
>>>Just for grins, I checked voltage as I pressed the manual flash button
>>>on back of unit, other than causing my DISH 508 pvr to change to a
>>>theme menu, I didn't see any high volts. I think I get you on
>>>voltage. Back in the old days there were mechanical contacts and some
>>>serious volts were turned loose.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Wes
>>
>>
>> I would not rely on that. The trigger voltage is difficult to
>> measure with general purpose equipment.
>>
>
> How do you figgure? The trigger voltage is the voltage that is present on
> the terminals when the flash is waiting to be told to fire. There's
> nothing particularly hard about measuring a constant DC voltage.
>
> Bob

True, but a 'trusty old vom' is likely to draw a high enough current to drop
the voltage considerably. Using a *digital* multimeter etc. will give a more
accurate result.

According to http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html there are two
versions of the Vivitar 2800, the (older?) model has a trigger voltage of
140-170V, the 2800-*D* is about 4V-33V.
March 2, 2005 1:30:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Joseph Meehan" <sligojoe_Spamno@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I would not rely on that. The trigger voltage is difficult to measure
>with general purpose equipment.

I measured it with a 25K ohm per volt multimeter. I have a scope at
work but to measure anything other than the potential at terminal, I
would have to put the scope across a low ohm resistor and use the
resistor to trip unit while looking for a spike.

Wes

--
Reply to:
Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Gee Tee EYE EYE dot COM
Lycos address is a spam trap.
March 2, 2005 1:30:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Larry <larrylynch3rd@comcast.net> wrote:

>The multiple contacts on the Sony V3 are for the Sony proprietary flash unit
>HVL-F32X, which is VERY expensive, but has two fully automatic TTL modes when
>used with a Sony camera disigned for it. (V1, F-828, and V3).
>
>Auto- A mode: full automode with preflash for exposure setting.
>
>Auto- B mode: Automatic mode without preflash (camera tells flash how much
>light)
>
>Manual - power settings for 1/32, 1/16, 1/8, 1/2, and full power.
>
>Also built in is a focus assist light (soft red light) and a back-light for
>the LCD readout on the back.
>
>Also has a "modeling" button and a slide out and down "Wide angle" diffuser.
>
>A good flash, but at $199.00 (US) its a tad expensive.
>
>
>--
>Larry Lynch
>Mystic, Ct.

Thanks Larry,

I agree on the expensive. I was about to buy one before I found my
old 2800-D. I'll do a bit more checking on trigger voltage but I
fired it a bunch before I posted so I've a feeling the 2800-d isn't
going to hurt my camera.


Just out of curiousity, does F32X have the ability to work in burst
mode?

Maye I should have asked first, do you have on.

Thanks again,

WEs

--
Reply to:
Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Gee Tee EYE EYE dot COM
Lycos address is a spam trap.
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 4:13:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

bob wrote:
> Joseph Meehan wrote:
>
>>>
>>> I see about 4.6 volts from center pin to edge with my trusty old
>>> vom. I guess that part is likely okay. I HOPE.
>>>
>>> Just for grins, I checked voltage as I pressed the manual flash
>>> button on back of unit, other than causing my DISH 508 pvr to
>>> change to a theme menu, I didn't see any high volts. I think I get
>>> you on voltage. Back in the old days there were mechanical
>>> contacts and some serious volts were turned loose.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Wes
>>
>>
>> I would not rely on that. The trigger voltage is difficult to
>> measure with general purpose equipment.
>>
>
> How do you figgure? The trigger voltage is the voltage that is present
> on the terminals when the flash is waiting to be told to fire. There's
> nothing particularly hard about measuring a constant DC voltage.

If the circuit is expecting a very high resistance and your meter has a
lower resistance it will drop or eliminate the voltage.

>
> Bob

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
March 2, 2005 4:13:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Joseph Meehan" <sligojoe_Spamno@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mr8Vd.28$J14.14@fe1.columbus.rr.com...
> bob wrote:
> > Joseph Meehan wrote:
> >
> >>>
> >>> I see about 4.6 volts from center pin to edge with my trusty old
> >>> vom. I guess that part is likely okay. I HOPE.
> >>>
> >>> Just for grins, I checked voltage as I pressed the manual flash
> >>> button on back of unit, other than causing my DISH 508 pvr to
> >>> change to a theme menu, I didn't see any high volts. I think I get
> >>> you on voltage. Back in the old days there were mechanical
> >>> contacts and some serious volts were turned loose.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Wes
> >>
> >>
> >> I would not rely on that. The trigger voltage is difficult to
> >> measure with general purpose equipment.
> >>
> >
> > How do you figgure? The trigger voltage is the voltage that is present
> > on the terminals when the flash is waiting to be told to fire. There's
> > nothing particularly hard about measuring a constant DC voltage.
>
> If the circuit is expecting a very high resistance and your meter has
a
> lower resistance it will drop or eliminate the voltage.
>
> >
> > Bob
>
> --
> Joseph Meehan
>
> 26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
>
>

That is true (primarily) of old, analog VOMs. For the last 20-25 years I've
been using various DMMs that generally have input impedances on the order of
1Mohm - 10Mohm. While it is good to be aware of the possibility of
measurement error, most people probably don't have to worry about it.
(You'd have to go to some effort to buy a VOM rather than a DMM these days.
BTW, VOMs can have FET front ends with very high input impedances too. They
just cost more. )

George
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 5:35:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 12:02:15 -0500, clutch@lycos.com wrote:

>I was playing with my Sony DSC-V3 when I remembered I had a Vivitar
>2800-D in a bag with my old Cannon EF (cannon required content). I
>wonder if this thing works on my new Sony. The EF (film slr has
>contacts + edge).
>
>I see that my flash has 4 contact points plus the contact that catches
>the edge of hot shoe making 5 contact points. I snap it on, turn on
>the power and take some shots. Wow! seems to work.
>
>Pretty good considering I bought the flash to do my sister's wedding
>and her 8 year old son wasn't born at the time. The use before date
>on the duracells is Jan 2002.
>
>So now I am wondering what I am missing since the V3 has one more
>contact than my flash? What does that one do?
>
>BTW, if anyone has the 2800-D, not the 2800, if you could scan the
>manual and e-mail it to my address in sig line, that would be really
>nice. Vivitar seems to want me to pay a 3rd party 10 bucks to
>download a pdf. I'd don't think I want the manual that badly.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Wes

Be careful! If your old flash outputs too high of a voltage, you
could toast your DigiCam.

If you, or a buddy, has a DTVM take a measure, with the flash on,
between the centre pin and ground (rail contact). If it reads 24 VDC
or less, you should be okay to use the flash on your DigiCam.
March 2, 2005 9:14:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <112acmuaot51ra0@news.supernews.com>, clutch@lycos.com says...
> Larry <larrylynch3rd@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >The multiple contacts on the Sony V3 are for the Sony proprietary flash unit
> >HVL-F32X, which is VERY expensive, but has two fully automatic TTL modes when
> >used with a Sony camera disigned for it. (V1, F-828, and V3).
> >
> >Auto- A mode: full automode with preflash for exposure setting.
> >
> >Auto- B mode: Automatic mode without preflash (camera tells flash how much
> >light)
> >
> >Manual - power settings for 1/32, 1/16, 1/8, 1/2, and full power.
> >
> >Also built in is a focus assist light (soft red light) and a back-light for
> >the LCD readout on the back.
> >
> >Also has a "modeling" button and a slide out and down "Wide angle" diffuser.
> >
> >A good flash, but at $199.00 (US) its a tad expensive.
> >
> >
> >--
> >Larry Lynch
> >Mystic, Ct.
>
> Thanks Larry,
>
> I agree on the expensive. I was about to buy one before I found my
> old 2800-D. I'll do a bit more checking on trigger voltage but I
> fired it a bunch before I posted so I've a feeling the 2800-d isn't
> going to hurt my camera.
>
>
> Just out of curiousity, does F32X have the ability to work in burst
> mode?
>
> Maye I should have asked first, do you have on.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> WEs
>
>


Yes I have one, and no, it doesnt work in burst mode. As a matter of fact,
if you have the camera set to use ANY flash, it wont go into burst mode
itself. Ypu can only use burst mode if the flash function is turned off with
the camera.


--
Larry Lynch
Mystic, Ct.
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 4:12:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

George wrote:
> "Joseph Meehan" <sligojoe_Spamno@hotmail.com> wrote in message
...
>>
>
> That is true (primarily) of old, analog VOMs. For the last 20-25
> years I've been using various DMMs that generally have input
> impedances on the order of 1Mohm - 10Mohm. While it is good to be
> aware of the possibility of measurement error, most people probably
> don't have to worry about it. (You'd have to go to some effort to buy
> a VOM rather than a DMM these days. BTW, VOMs can have FET front ends
> with very high input impedances too. They just cost more. )
>
> George

And today with DMM's a lot of people have problems measuring voltage on
120V home wiring. If the circuit is off (breaker off) they often get
voltage measurements of a few volts to almost 120V. This is of course due
to the "transformer" effect between that wire and some adjacent wires. They
are convinced they have a problem. You have to know your tools.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
!