3D platforms

[archangela]

Hi all,

I will be upgrading soon and the primary reason is I want to enjoy 3D gaming using a 3D monitor and glasses. I am aware I need the 120 refresh rate and a powerful machine as almost double the frames per sec are needed for smooth play. I have even selected a decent set up, thanks to much reading done on this very website , and am basically waiting for the Z68 chipset (or new AMD processors, depending on which would be better) in Q2 to get the desktop I want.

Now the biggest question I am facing is whether to get Nvidia or ATI GPU. I have a friend at Nvidia who says that unlike ATI, Nvidia has a dedicated department to its 3D platform and has done so for some time now, making its 3D platform of better quality and compatibility. Still, even he is not really sure as he has never used the ATI 3rd party 3D platform. I have only used the Nvidia one so far and was quite happy with the quality.

So, in short - could someone give an overview of which one is the one to go with and why?

Thanks in advance!

P.S. Is there a large screen TV I can get instead of the 120 refresh rate monitor?

 

[jaguarskx]

I have no experience with "3D". However, I would go with nVidia because of the easier setup. I have briefly seen a very long checkpoint list for one of the 3rd party ATI 3D drivers. But it seemed a bit convoluted and there were at least 16 steps. Plus you need to buy those drivers.

You cannot use any 120Hz HDTV for "3D" gaming since all of them only accept 60Hz input. You must use a 120Hz monitor. They do not operate the same way. "120Hz" for HDTVs generally refers to taking a 60Hz signal, then doing some internal video processing to smooth out video playback and then display it on screen. This will cause input lag due to the video processing.

I believe nVidia does state their 3D kits are compatible with some 3D HDTVs, but they still only accept 60Hz input. Worse still, if you want 3D, then that drops to 48Hz input; 24Hz per eye.

 

[ubercake]

Hi all,

I will be upgrading soon and the primary reason is I want to enjoy 3D gaming using a 3D monitor and glasses. I am aware I need the 120 refresh rate and a powerful machine as almost double the frames per sec are needed for smooth play. I have even selected a decent set up, thanks to much reading done on this very website , and am basically waiting for the Z68 chipset (or new AMD processors, depending on which would be better) in Q2 to get the desktop I want.

Now the biggest question I am facing is whether to get Nvidia or ATI GPU. I have a friend at Nvidia who says that unlike ATI, Nvidia has a dedicated department to its 3D platform and has done so for some time now, making its 3D platform of better quality and compatibility. Still, even he is not really sure as he has never used the ATI 3rd party 3D platform. I have only used the Nvidia one so far and was quite happy with the quality.

So, in short - could someone give an overview of which one is the one to go with and why?

Thanks in advance!

P.S. Is there a large screen TV I can get instead of the 120 refresh rate monitor?

Stay with Nvidia for the reasons you've already cited and because they offer better driver support in general for their hardware.

Also, there are 120Hz or 240Hz television sets out there that should be able to handle this. Has anyone tried this on one of these television sets?

 

[jaguarskx]

Also, there are 120Hz or 240Hz television sets out there that should be able to handle this. Has anyone tried this on one of these television sets?

See my comment regarding HDTVs.

 

[ubercake]

You cannot use any 120Hz HDTV for "3D" gaming since all of them only accept 60Hz input. You must use a 120Hz monitor. They do not operate the same way. "120Hz" for HDTVs generally refers to taking a 60Hz signal, then doing some internal video processing to smooth out video playback and then display it on screen. This will cause input lag due to the video processing.

Is there a source you can cite that provides this explanation?

 

[jaguarskx]

http://reviews.cnet.com/240hz-lcd-tvs-what-you-need-to-know/

http://hdguru.com/3d-hdtv-details-uncovered%E2%80%94an-hd-guru-exclusive/1161/

 

[ubercake]

http://reviews.cnet.com/240hz-lcd-tvs-what-you-need-to-know/

http://hdguru.com/3d-hdtv-details-uncovered%E2%80%94an-hd-guru-exclusive/1161/

The first article is based on the premise that most sources are at most 30 frames/sec and follows by showing that there's no perceivable difference going from 120Hz to 240Hz Television sets when viewing these sources.

The second article talks about the blu-ray 3d standard which is 48fps (24/eye).

Neither article says anything about why a 120Hz TV cannot display a PC 3D signal.

Or did I miss something?

How is the 120Hz LCD TV different from the 120Hz LCD monitor?

 

[jaguarskx]

HDTVs only accept 60Hz inputs. All of them.

120Hz HDTVs take video from 60Hz sources. Using MEMC (motion estimation-motion compensation) it inserts interpolated frames to improve the smoothness of video playback. This takes a little bit of time and will cause a bit of input lag. Therefore, it is best to use 60Hz when playing games on a HDTV.

3D HDTVs limits output to 48 frames per second or 24 frames per eye because movies are filmed at 24fps. Input is still limited to 60Hz, but since movies are 24fps, it is dropped to 48Hz so that 3:2 pull down conversion is not necessary to reduce 30fps to 24fps. Like a "regular" 120Hz HDTV it does some video processing to improve smoothness but will add input lag to games.

120Hz 3D monitors truly operates at 120Hz since it requires a dual linked 60Hz cable. Therefore, playing games on a 120Hz 3D monitor should allow 60Hz per eye which theoretically means 60 frames per eye. The monitor itself does not do any internal video process itself (except for high end meant for graphic professionals and they are not 120Hz monitors) which means no artificial input lag.

 

[ubercake]

HDTVs only accept 60Hz inputs. All of them.

120Hz HDTVs take video from 60Hz sources. Using MEMC (motion estimation-motion compensation) it inserts interpolated frames to improve the smoothness of video playback. This takes a little bit of time and will cause a bit of input lag. Therefore, it is best to use 60Hz when playing games on a HDTV.

3D HDTVs limits output to 48 frames per second or 24 frames per eye because movies are filmed at 24fps. Input is still limited to 60Hz, but since movies are 24fps, it is dropped to 48Hz so that 3:2 pull down conversion is not necessary to reduce 30fps to 24fps. Like a "regular" 120Hz HDTV it does some video processing to improve smoothness but will add input lag to games.

120Hz 3D monitors truly operates at 120Hz since it requires a dual linked 60Hz cable. Therefore, playing games on a 120Hz 3D monitor should allow 60Hz per eye which theoretically means 60 frames per eye. The monitor itself does not do any internal video process itself (except for high end meant for graphic professionals and they are not 120Hz monitors) which means no artificial input lag.

I've always wondered this myself and I'm not trying to be a large Richard about it. I'm just really trying to understand. I have another question:

Where is there something that says all (non-3D) HDTVs only accept 60Hz inputs?

I have been trying to understand why it is, beyond corporate marketing, that I can't do 3D on a 120Hz TV. Is it a difference between using a 1.3 and 1.4 cable? Is the interface to the television based on HDMI spec 1.3 only? Is that what forces it to only 60Hz input?

 

[jaguarskx]

"Regular" HDTVs use HDMI 1.3 interface which supports up to 1920 x 1200 resolution @ 60Hz.

3D HTDVs use HDMI 1.4a interface. For 3D content it is capable of handling 1080p @ 60Hz. In regular "2D" mode it can technically support 4096×2160 @ 24Hz. The original HDMI 1.4 is limited to 1080p @ 24Hz I believe and is probably used by the 1st generation of 3D HDTVs.

 

[ubercake]

I feel like I learned something today. So 1.4a HDMI cables and interfaces or dual-dvi links are the key to 3D HD.

(But why can't they just do 30/30 per eye with 60Hz?)

 

[jaguarskx]

Maybe HDMI 1.4a can. I haven't really done much extensive research on it since I'm not interested in 3D at this moment in time.

Not sure if HDTVs will have dual linked DVI since that requires a different set of electronics to process and will simply increase the cost. But that would make it an equivalent to a 120Hz monitor.

 

[archangela]

Maybe HDMI 1.4a can. I haven't really done much extensive research on it since I'm not interested in 3D at this moment in time.

Not sure if HDTVs will have dual linked DVI since that requires a different set of electronics to process and will simply increase the cost. But that would make it an equivalent to a 120Hz monitor.

So basically the 3D tvs listed as compatible on the Nvidia website are for 3D movie viewing only? Also, is there particular reason why you are not interested in 3D at this moment? Btw, thanks a lot for the info it has been very useful so far!

 

[jaguarskx]

I'm thinking it is possible to play 3D games on a 3D HDTV with a nVidia kit, but it won't be the same as playing on a 120Hz monitor due to lower frame rates since HDMI only works at 60Hz or lower.

Do some research on nVidia's site or contact them regarding gaming on3D HDTVs.

Not interested in 3D 'cause it's a bit gimmicky to me. I also don't wanna bother with wears goggles for it. I read somewhere that you should play 3D games too long because it just tires you out. Additionally, it has been reported that playing 3D games are not recommended for children because it can permanently interfere with vision/brain development since they are still growing up.

 

[benski]

You can game at 720p on a 3d tv at 60 hz per eye, just not at full 1080p.

 

[ubercake]

...children because it can permanently interfere with vision/brain development since they are still growing up...

That's a little scary.

 

[archangela]

You can game at 720p on a 3d tv at 60 hz per eye, just not at full 1080p.

Please elaborate...

 

[benski]

Please elaborate...

Read this : http://3dvision-blog.com/hdmi-1-4a-specifications-with-updated-stereoscopic-3d-support/

Although I ran across this thread (https://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=915610&mpage=1&print=true) in another forum where a guy is being told by nvidia tech support that his monitor can do 120hz 1080p 3d vision over HDMI, so now I'm not too sure.

 

[archangela]

Thanks for all your replies! If you do get some more insight/info please post here as I have a month left and I will keep researching. Good luck and see you around!

 

[archangela]

Best answer selected by archangela.