Digital pix on TV: CD vs DVD?

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Fred" <fredhanson@att.net> wrote...
> My digital pictures look very grainy on my TV (35" Sony). Pictures are
> from a 3 Meg camera, and are stored usually as .6-1.2 Meg Jpeg. I
> create VCDs with HP Image Zone Express software and play them on a
> Toshiba SD-K620 DVD player. From recent discussions here I realize that
> the US analog TV is low grain (307200 pixels), so that must be part of
> the problem.
>
> Would these pictures be improved by copying them in DVD format with a
> DVD burner? Would some other burner software improve the display in
> either VCD or DVD?

I'm NOT an expert on this topic but I have played around with it a bit, so
I'll offer some comments. I can't guarantee the accuracy of everything,
however, so be warned.

First, if you are burning your photos to VCD format, then you can not expect
high quality output on a TV. VCD resolution is only 352 X 240 (NTSC) or 352
x 288 (PAL). This will not deliver a picture as good as even a VHS tape. As
long as you're using VCD format, it doesn't matter if you burn to CD or DVD;
your quality will always be less than great. If you were to move up to SVCD
format, you get 480 X 480 (NTSC) or 480 x 576 (PAL). That will deliver a
better picture than VCD but still not as good as if you burn your images to
DVD format, which is 720x480 (NTSC) or 720x576 (PAL). Incidentally, you can
burn about 10 minutes of DVD content to a CD, so if you want a short slide
show, then you might be able to fit your images on a CD. If your slideshow
is longer than that, then you will have to burn the DVD content to an actual
DVD. Also, if you burn DVD content to a CD, not all set-top DVD players
will play them. Most computer DVD-ROMs will.

Most recent DVD players will play image files, such as jpeg, directly and
that gives an image quality that is limited by the quality and size of the
image file, the DVD player, the type of connection between the player and
the TV set and the TV set itself. This is another option but it doesn't
give control of fades and other special effects that you can put into a
video slide show.

Incidentally, not all North American TV sets are low resolution. I have a
Sony WEGA, Model KLV23M1, 23" LCD TV with progressive scan. The
resolution of this set is 1366 x 768 or 1,049,088 pixels. When this is
connected to a progressive scan DVD player via component video or to an HDTV
receiver via the HDMI interface, it delivers a great picture.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On 1 Mar 2005 12:31:49 -0800, "Fred" <fredhanson@att.net> wrote:

>My digital pictures look very grainy on my TV (35" Sony). Pictures are
>from a 3 Meg camera, and are stored usually as .6-1.2 Meg Jpeg. I
>create VCDs with HP Image Zone Express software and play them on a
>Toshiba SD-K620 DVD player. From recent discussions here I realize that
>the US analog TV is low grain (307200 pixels), so that must be part of
>the problem.

307200 pixels spread over a 35" screen would seem to explain the problem
very clearly! I found looking at my photos on a UK television (about
500,000 pixels, I think) pretty painful, though my family seemed to like
them.

>Would these pictures be improved by copying them in DVD format with a
>DVD burner? Would some other burner software improve the display in
>either VCD or DVD?

It wouldn't give you a good result. You need a decent monitor, not a TV.

--
Stephen Poley

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Here are two good application - Photo2DVD & Photo2VCD, they have worked
well for me, you can just have a try with to see how they work for you
and you prefer. Good luck!

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Mardon wrote:
> "Fred" <fredhanson@att.net> wrote...
>
>>My digital pictures look very grainy on my TV (35" Sony). Pictures are
>>from a 3 Meg camera, and are stored usually as .6-1.2 Meg Jpeg. I
>>create VCDs with HP Image Zone Express software and play them on a
>>Toshiba SD-K620 DVD player. From recent discussions here I realize that
>>the US analog TV is low grain (307200 pixels), so that must be part of
>>the problem.
>>
>>Would these pictures be improved by copying them in DVD format with a
>>DVD burner? Would some other burner software improve the display in
>>either VCD or DVD?
>
>
> I'm NOT an expert on this topic but I have played around with it a bit, so
> I'll offer some comments. I can't guarantee the accuracy of everything,
> however, so be warned.
>
> First, if you are burning your photos to VCD format, then you can not expect
> high quality output on a TV. VCD resolution is only 352 X 240 (NTSC) or 352
> x 288 (PAL). This will not deliver a picture as good as even a VHS tape. As
> long as you're using VCD format, it doesn't matter if you burn to CD or DVD;
> your quality will always be less than great. If you were to move up to SVCD
> format, you get 480 X 480 (NTSC) or 480 x 576 (PAL). That will deliver a
> better picture than VCD but still not as good as if you burn your images to
> DVD format, which is 720x480 (NTSC) or 720x576 (PAL). Incidentally, you can
> burn about 10 minutes of DVD content to a CD, so if you want a short slide
> show, then you might be able to fit your images on a CD. If your slideshow
> is longer than that, then you will have to burn the DVD content to an actual
> DVD. Also, if you burn DVD content to a CD, not all set-top DVD players
> will play them. Most computer DVD-ROMs will.
>
> Most recent DVD players will play image files, such as jpeg, directly and
> that gives an image quality that is limited by the quality and size of the
> image file, the DVD player, the type of connection between the player and
> the TV set and the TV set itself. This is another option but it doesn't
> give control of fades and other special effects that you can put into a
> video slide show.
>
> Incidentally, not all North American TV sets are low resolution. I have a
> Sony WEGA, Model KLV23M1, 23" LCD TV with progressive scan. The
> resolution of this set is 1366 x 768 or 1,049,088 pixels. When this is
> connected to a progressive scan DVD player via component video or to an HDTV
> receiver via the HDMI interface, it delivers a great picture.
>
>
This is not quite correct.
MPEG stills on VCD can be at DVD resolution. A video VCD is at the
resolution you specify. The correct burning software can produce much
higher output. I have used VCDEASY for excelent results on VCD.
See:
http://www.videohelp.com/~vitualis/mpeg_still_images.ht...
for more details.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Wrong Stephen!

There is NO need to buy another monitor/TV. ITs how your photos are
transfered on the CD, you get different resolutions on the VCD/SVCD/DVD
formats. Record/transfer your digital pix onto the DVD format and you
will get excellent qulaity.

I used "progold" to transfer/write DVD quality resolutions and they are
very good

Stephen Poley wrote:
> On 1 Mar 2005 12:31:49 -0800, "Fred" <fredhanson@att.net> wrote:
>
>
>>My digital pictures look very grainy on my TV (35" Sony). Pictures are
>
>>from a 3 Meg camera, and are stored usually as .6-1.2 Meg Jpeg. I
>
>>create VCDs with HP Image Zone Express software and play them on a
>>Toshiba SD-K620 DVD player. From recent discussions here I realize that
>>the US analog TV is low grain (307200 pixels), so that must be part of
>>the problem.
>
>
> 307200 pixels spread over a 35" screen would seem to explain the problem
> very clearly! I found looking at my photos on a UK television (about
> 500,000 pixels, I think) pretty painful, though my family seemed to like
> them.
>
>
>>Would these pictures be improved by copying them in DVD format with a
>>DVD burner? Would some other burner software improve the display in
>>either VCD or DVD?
>
>
> It wouldn't give you a good result. You need a decent monitor, not a TV.
>
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Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I'd like to thank all the previous posters for their comments and
suggestions and tell you my experiences.

I've tried several of the packages recommended for VCD and SVCD
including VCD Easy, MemoriesOnTV and Photo2VCD. The best I got was
mediocre resolution, even with SVCD.

I just bought a Sony DVD/CD External Drive (Model DRX-710UL, on sale at
Costco at $150 this week), and cut my first DVD of the same slide show
I used previously.

The results were amazing! Everything was clearer and more detailed, and
variations in brightness were cleaner. This is exactly what I was
looking for. I'm using ProShowGold software. Cutting the first disk was
easy, but I'll have to work with it a bit more during the 15-day trial
period to see if it has the flexibility to turn out the types of disks
I'll want in the future.

I have one more question. The DVD drive came with Nero software,
including InCD. I've learned that I can't install InCd along with
ProShowGold. Is there another similar program under which you can
record files from the hard drive on a DVD as well as copy DVDs, as InCD
says it does?

Thanks for any comments on this.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 21:56:51 +0100, Stephen Poley wrote:

> On 1 Mar 2005 12:31:49 -0800, "Fred" <fredhanson@att.net> wrote:
>
>>My digital pictures look very grainy on my TV (35" Sony). Pictures are
>>from a 3 Meg camera, and are stored usually as .6-1.2 Meg Jpeg. I create
>>VCDs with HP Image Zone Express software and play them on a Toshiba
>>SD-K620 DVD player. From recent discussions here I realize that the US
>>analog TV is low grain (307200 pixels), so that must be part of the
>>problem.
>
> 307200 pixels spread over a 35" screen would seem to explain the problem
> very clearly! I found looking at my photos on a UK television (about
> 500,000 pixels, I think) pretty painful, though my family seemed to like
> them.

You may also find that certain DVD players only show every 'n' pixels,
rather than taking an average. This can lead to some odd aliasing effects,
particularly in high contrast areas of images.

Best Regards,
Alex.
--
Alex Butcher Brainbench MVP for Internet Security: www.brainbench.com
Bristol, UK Need reliable and secure network systems?
PGP/GnuPG ID:0x271fd950 <http://www.assursys.com/&gt;

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Alex Butcher wrote:


>
> You may also find that certain DVD players only show every 'n' pixels,
> rather than taking an average. This can lead to some odd aliasing effects,
> particularly in high contrast areas of images.
>
> Best Regards,
> Alex.

I agree with this. EVERY DVD player has to use some sort of algorithm to
display image files with different number of pixels than the number it
can display on TV screen. Some may do every nth, others downsample by
averaging, but in any case, there is software involved. Also, keep in
mind that US analog TV has far less pixels than 3MB, so there HAS to be
some softening of image.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Don Stauffer in Minneapolis wrote:
> Alex Butcher wrote:
>
>
>>
>> You may also find that certain DVD players only show every 'n' pixels,
>> rather than taking an average. This can lead to some odd aliasing
>> effects,
>> particularly in high contrast areas of images.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Alex.
>
>
> I agree with this. EVERY DVD player has to use some sort of algorithm to
> display image files with different number of pixels than the number it
> can display on TV screen. Some may do every nth, others downsample by
> averaging, but in any case, there is software involved. Also, keep in
> mind that US analog TV has far less pixels than 3MB, so there HAS to be
> some softening of image.

Which is why I find displaying my digital pictures on a TV unacceptable.
I hate to see a fine picture rendered in fuzzy, and smeared colors on
a device with less resolution than the average picture phone.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Don Stauffer in Minneapolis wrote:
> Alex Butcher wrote:
>
>
>>
>> You may also find that certain DVD players only show every 'n' pixels,
>> rather than taking an average. This can lead to some odd aliasing
>> effects,
>> particularly in high contrast areas of images.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Alex.
>
>
> I agree with this. EVERY DVD player has to use some sort of algorithm to
> display image files with different number of pixels than the number it
> can display on TV screen. Some may do every nth, others downsample by
> averaging, but in any case, there is software involved. Also, keep in
> mind that US analog TV has far less pixels than 3MB, so there HAS to be
> some softening of image.

Hi...

A couple of years ago I did more experimenting with this than
I care to remember  

Found that far and away - no contest - the best results were
by first cropping to 3x4 ratio, then downsampling to 640x480,
and finally sharpening.

Your mileage may vary; experiment  

Ken