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Msi gtx560 frozr II or hd 6950

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March 30, 2011 5:43:33 PM

Hey Guys,
I'm looking for a new graphics card for my new build.Which card should I get, the gtx 560 twin frozr II or the 6950. If I get the 560 I planning to overclock to 1GHz core and if I get the hd 6950 I'll flash it to the 6970 (I'd buy a reference card). My resolution is 1080p. I don't really give a *** about phyx and eyefinity I'm just looking for the card that will run faster on 1080p on Battlefield games, CoD games, sc2 and eventually Diablo III and Battlefield 3. I have no brand preference I just want to know which card is better. Oh and Btw I'll be getting an xfx 750w black edition (80 plus silver) so I'd say it can run both cards even in SLI. kthxbai. :) 

More about : msi gtx560 frozr 6950

March 30, 2011 6:41:55 PM

Get the ATI card. ATI ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!!!
a c 678 U Graphics card
March 30, 2011 7:11:42 PM

1080P is the resolution that the GTX 560 was designed for. These charts are for the stock Twin Frozr at 880 mhz. As you know, they can overclock past 1 ghz, and when they do, they scale better and show much better performance gains than overclocked 6950's/modded 6970's. The Twin Frozr cooler produces the best temperatures and comes with high-end components for better overclocking.

Most of the games you listed significantly favor Nvidia cards, particularly the COD games.





Nice gains when overclocking:



Temperatures are outstanding:


http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_560_Twin_Fro...
Related resources
a c 206 U Graphics card
March 30, 2011 8:01:24 PM

Check benchmarks. The HD6950 is generally the stronger card, but as matto17secs points out, certain games (e.g. Blizzard's) favor nVidia's architecture. The 560Ti also runs a little quieter and cooler, even though it consumes a little more power under load.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/293?vs=330
a b U Graphics card
March 30, 2011 8:09:09 PM

Yeah, as much as I hate Nvidia, I would get the TFII version over a hd6950, unless the hd6950 has a TFII version.
March 30, 2011 9:10:31 PM

Ok, another thing in benchmarks why do they list games in 1900x1200 and 1680x1050, why don't they just list it as 1920x1080?
March 30, 2011 9:11:20 PM

HostileDonut said:
Yeah, as much as I hate Nvidia, I would get the TFII version over a hd6950, unless the hd6950 has a TFII version.

The 6950 does have a tf II version just it doesn't have a dual bios switch so it risky to flash it.
a b U Graphics card
March 30, 2011 9:22:16 PM

robbiep28 said:
Ok, another thing in benchmarks why do they list games in 1900x1200 and 1680x1050, why don't they just list it as 1920x1080?

Because it's not 1080p. It's 1200p. =P
March 30, 2011 9:24:49 PM

I just found out on that msi have released a twin frozr III for the 6950 and when overclocked it out performs the 6970 hmmmm interesting...
March 30, 2011 9:27:44 PM

damn, but will msi be releasing a gtx 560 twin frozr III in the near future?
a b U Graphics card
March 30, 2011 9:29:03 PM

17seconds said:
That's pretty good, just a little bit slower than the MSI GTX 560 Twin Frozr.

It really depends on what game.
March 30, 2011 9:34:24 PM

So guys, bottom line which card is better in general : gtx 560 tf II or 6950 flashed to 6970.
a b U Graphics card
March 30, 2011 9:41:28 PM

The 6950 is the far better card. It's faster than the 560 at stock, and if you are gonna flash it to a 6970 then it's a total win, there is no way a 560 can compete. The 560 is in the 5870's class, not the 6950's.
a c 678 U Graphics card
March 30, 2011 9:48:57 PM

HostileDonut said:
It really depends on what game.

You are correct. The best recommendation usually comes down to which card performs best on which games that you actually play. Even then, 144 fps vs. 147 fps is still trivial. That's why I have switched to looking at things like fan noise, temperatures, and scaling to help with recommendations.

All the same, for this thread, one of the games in question is COD4, where there is an ever so slight difference in favor of the GTX 560 Twin Frozr.

From techpowerup.com:

Fan Noise/OC Temp
MSI 6950 TFIII: 38 Dba/71c
MSI 560 TFII: 39 Dba/66c

OC Scaling (% FPS gain/%OC)
MSI 6950 TFIII: 10.1%/14% = 72% scaling
MSI 560 TFII: 9.3%/10% = 93% scaling
(This is a typical result due to the fact that Nvidia clocks shaders at 2X the core speed, while AMD clocks shaders at 1X the core speed.)
a c 678 U Graphics card
March 30, 2011 9:50:51 PM

robbiep28 said:
So guys, bottom line which card is better in general : gtx 560 tf II or 6950 flashed to 6970.

The MSI Twin Frozr cannot be flashed to a 6970.
March 30, 2011 9:52:08 PM

17seconds said:
You are correct. The best recommendation usually comes down to which card performs best on which games that you actually play. Even then, 144 fps vs. 147 fps is still trivial. That's why I have switched to looking at things like fan noise, temperatures, and scaling to help with recommendations.

All the same, for this thread, one of the games in question is COD4, where there is an ever so slight difference in favor of the GTX 560 Twin Frozr.

From techpowerup.com:

Fan Noise/OC Temp
MSI 6950 TFIII: 38 Dba/71c
MSI 560 TFII: 39 Dba/66c

OC Scaling (% FPS gain/%OC)
MSI 6950 TFIII: 10.1%/14% = 72% scaling
MSI 560 TFII: 9.3%/10% = 93% scaling
(This is a typical result due to the fact that Nvidia clocks shaders at 2X the core speed, while AMD clocks shaders at 1X the core speed.)

Ok thanks i thing i'll go with the 560 since the games I play favour them :sol: 
a c 678 U Graphics card
March 30, 2011 9:53:55 PM

eyefinity said:
The 6950 is the far better card. It's faster than the 560 at stock, and if you are gonna flash it to a 6970 then it's a total win, there is no way a 560 can compete. The 560 is in the 5870's class, not the 6950's.

So you are going to make these claims despite the fact there are several charts on this page that have already refuted them?
a b U Graphics card
March 30, 2011 9:59:18 PM

If you go for a slower card because you get 150 FPS in wow VS 120FPS you will not see the extra FPS and if you play other gams you will have a less powerfull card. Not it costs less so there is that and with OC scales better. However with test done here in toms the new AMD cards scale better in crossfire than the new Nvidia cards do in SLI. And you will see a much greater improvement in perfomance in the future adding a second card than any OC will ever give you.
a b U Graphics card
March 30, 2011 10:05:40 PM

I would go for the card that gives the most performance because of future games. Also, the hd6950 has 2gb, which means it is future-proof. Or, as future-proof as you can get.
a c 206 U Graphics card
March 30, 2011 10:13:23 PM

robbiep28 said:
Ok thanks i thing i'll go with the 560 since the games I play favour them :sol: 


So it appears, so I believe you will have made the right choice.
a b U Graphics card
March 30, 2011 10:52:36 PM

17seconds said:
So you are going to make these claims despite the fact there are several charts on this page that have already refuted them?


Take a wild guess?


Bad Company



The 6950 beats the 560 ti in Battlefield 2, it's close but a win at 1080p. Obviously the 6970 beats it by even more.

Anandtech gets results even more clearly in favour of the 6950/6970. A total victory.




Call of Duty.



Here the 560 ti performs better than the 6950, but loses to the 6970. However, it's close enough that an overclocked 560 ti could maybe beat the 6970.

I just want to note that the 560 ti falls badly behind at the next resolution up, because it's not as powerful a card.




Struggling to find SC2 benchmarks with both cards. So far it's 2 wins to the 6950, 1 definite one maybe. A 560 ti overclocked will not beat a bios unlocked 6950 in bad company but it might stand a chance in CoD.

In most other games the 6970 will slaughter the 560 ti.
a c 678 U Graphics card
March 30, 2011 11:01:44 PM

Sadly Eyefinity, despite all your hard work, we have not been considering a reference model GTX 560, but instead a MSI GTX 560 Twin Frozr with a factory overclock and an intended target overclock of 1 Ghz. If we wanted reference performance numbers, those are represented on the blue colored bars in the previous charts above.
a c 206 U Graphics card
March 30, 2011 11:05:41 PM

Nice ownership, matto. Sadly, there's always a drone...
a b U Graphics card
March 30, 2011 11:09:13 PM

I think they are close enough it is more personal preference. Can you really tell the difference between 77 and 73 FPS? I know I can't.
a b U Graphics card
March 30, 2011 11:09:16 PM

Yes and that also depends on the review site, and if the "intended overclock" of 1ghz is actually obtained.

How many of these cards reach 1ghz?

Oh btw, this Twin Frozr out the box (notice how matt linked the 1680x1050 resolution in that one)?



The only way a 560 ti will outmuscle a 6970 is with a massive overclock, increased voltage and probably a very good case. by that stage you really are asking yourself why you didn't just get the 6950 for less, and bios mod it to a 6970.

Really. If techpowerup can't get theirs to 1ghz, what chances does the average buyer?

also - BEWARE ANY LINKS FROM MATT, HE SWITCHES RESOLUTIONS AND USES OVERCLOCKED RESULTS VS NON OVERCLOCKED WITHOUT MENTIONING IT.

That should be obvious. why did he link 2 1680x1050 resolution benchmarks then a 1920x1080 resolution benchmark? It's because the AMD cards won at the 1920x1080 resolution benchmark.

Now who got owned?
a b U Graphics card
March 30, 2011 11:17:42 PM

OP - "I game at 1080p"

Matt -

links 1680x1050



Me -

links 1080p



Check the difference. Matt has deliberatly tried to cheat the op by showing him the nvidia card winning at the resolution he doesn't play at. $%*& this @$%& should be banned.

a b U Graphics card
March 30, 2011 11:21:54 PM

He's done EXACTLY the same with Call of Duty.

OP stated he plays at 1080p.

Matt links 1680x1050



I link 1080p like the op requests.



Look the 560 ti can't even beat a 5870 now!

Typical nVidia lies, I wouldn't be surprised if Matto here works for them.
a c 678 U Graphics card
March 30, 2011 11:45:18 PM

Techpowerup doesn't test at 1080p, which would be right in between the two charts you listed, and I did include the 1200p chart as well. I was assuming that 1050 was closer to 1080. Either way, the 560 is still ahead of the 6950 in these specific games. MSI Afterburner has excellent overvolting software, and 1 Ghz should be a breeze. And anyway, I believe the OP has already made his decision.

I'm sorry this has gotten so stressful, Eyefinity. I bet your time away from the Tom's Forum was relatively relaxing. To be honest, I plan to take a break myself on April 1st (no fooling). This might be hard to believe, but I have actually had close to 50 Best Answers this month alone. The truth is, there are always two sides to an issue, and when you present a respectful argument, focusing on data and evidence, then people listen. Others are then welcome to counter those points, as you have attempted. I hope, as we welcome you back to the forums, that you can continue to actually demonstrate why you love AMD so much, and back it up with meaningful data, so people can gain a more clear perspective on the hardware they intend to purchase with their hard-earned money.
a b U Graphics card
March 30, 2011 11:46:52 PM

17seconds said:
Sadly Eyefinity, despite all your hard work, we have not been considering a reference model GTX 560, but instead a MSI GTX 560 Twin Frozr with a factory overclock and an intended target overclock of 1 Ghz. If we wanted reference performance numbers, those are represented on the blue colored bars in the previous charts above.

If you are compairing OC results then you mine as well compair the OC 560 to 6970 numbers becaue 95% + 6950 unlock just fine.
a b U Graphics card
March 30, 2011 11:47:00 PM

You know, eventually we are going to scare away everyone asking 'which card should I get?'.
a b U Graphics card
March 30, 2011 11:56:19 PM

EXT64 said:
You know, eventually we are going to scare away everyone asking 'which card should I get?'.

Or just confuse then to th epoint where they end up with 4 5770's lol
a b U Graphics card
March 31, 2011 12:08:13 AM

That would truly be a driver nightmare :lol: 
a c 206 U Graphics card
March 31, 2011 12:09:55 AM

I'd say more people are willing to OC than are willing to flash a BIOS, especially if doing the latter voids their warranty.
It's a VERY narrow victory, but I think matt won this round...
a b U Graphics card
March 31, 2011 12:29:26 AM

17seconds said:
Techpowerup doesn't test at 1080p, which would be right in between the two charts you listed, and I did include the 1200p chart as well. I was assuming that 1050 was closer to 1080. Either way, the 560 is still ahead of the 6950 in these specific games. MSI Afterburner has excellent overvolting software, and 1 Ghz should be a breeze. And anyway, I believe the OP has already made his decision.

I'm sorry this has gotten so stressful, Eyefinity. I bet your time away from the Tom's Forum was relatively relaxing. To be honest, I plan to take a break myself on April 1st (no fooling). This might be hard to believe, but I have actually had close to 50 Best Answers this month alone. The truth is, there are always two sides to an issue, and when you present a respectful argument, focusing on data and evidence, then people listen. Others are then welcome to counter those points, as you have attempted. I hope, as we welcome you back to the forums, that you can continue to actually demonstrate why you love AMD so much, and back it up with meaningful data, so people can gain a more clear perspective on the hardware they intend to purchase with their hard-earned money.


I must say that was a very surprising post!

You probably do need a break matt, and you won't regret it. I don't mind fanboys at all - on any side - but we should always do our best to make sure our fanboyism isn't getting in the way of doing what is right for a poster.

I just feel that if we are changing our benchmarks and resolutions to suit our agendas then we aren't helping anybody.
a c 206 U Graphics card
March 31, 2011 12:43:27 AM

The trouble is, these niggling results can be thrown off by just a single game. For example, what if the OP thinks he might like to play Civilization 5? The chart at http://www.anandtech.com/bench/GPU11/203 shows that even a GTX460 (four-six-oh) has over a 10% lead over the HD6970. Then there's S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Pripyat where the HD6950 whales on the GTX560 by closer to 15%. We must assume that the OP has the ability to look at the charts and decide for himself.
a c 678 U Graphics card
March 31, 2011 3:28:57 AM

Eyefinity knows there is no one I would rather share a foxhole with than him.

RobbieP, I just wanted to plant one more seed in your mind. May I present to you the MSI GTX 560 Ti "Golden Edition". Who needs a mere 880 mhz Silver Edition, when the Golden Edition comes in all pure copper and an even higher 900 mhz factory overclock. Sqeezing another 100+mhz out of this one... well that's a given:



http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Thank you, ladies. As you were.
a b U Graphics card
March 31, 2011 3:50:24 AM

That does look pretty awesome. Though I am not sure making the faceplate out of copper really helps (if it is even copper and not just painted), it does look awesome. I really like the MSI Twin Frozr design. From my experience with my 470 TF2, I would highly recommend a TF2. Though, since the normal TF2 can easily cool a 470, a normal TF2 should have little issue with an OC'ed 560.
March 31, 2011 7:05:26 AM

As much as I'd like to get the golden edition, it's not available in the uk and guys 1680x1050=~1.7 million pixels, 1920x1080=~2 Million pixels, 1900x1200=
~2.2 million pixels.
Also which card will perform better in the long run?
a b U Graphics card
March 31, 2011 9:27:28 AM

^ in long run surely 6950 2GB version cause of:
1. more VRAM
2. possibility to flash
3. eyefinity *if you will want to add new screen or upgrade your monitor*

as far as i know copper plates are a bit better than silver etc, even the Asus Ares had one

if you're going to OC 560 to 1Ghz core then going with silver TFII will be problematic:
1. lower factory OC *only 20Mhz, but still*
2. worse components

if you're about to OC/flash*unlock shaders* then i'd take 6950 over 560, 560 is an awesome overclocker, but even it @ a 1050Mhz core won't beat a 6950 with unlocked shaders + overclock, yes 560 might have a better cooler, but it's power consumption could be a little smaller *you save 5$ yearly if you play 5 days per week 4hrs*, cause it's the same as by the unlocked 6950 + OC

You can't really go wrong with these cards, but CoD games usually prefer nVidia, while Battlefield likes AMD, higher resolution is also a point where AMD wins, i'm not sure about how these cards will run on Diablo 3, and unfortunately i couldn't find english review for SC2, but i found it on my language, and it comes out that it prefers AMD

http://nvision.pl/Radeon-HD-6950-vs-GeForce-GTX-560-Ti-...

EDIT2: Congratulations Matto17secs, you're soon gettin' addict :p  ;) 
a c 678 U Graphics card
March 31, 2011 3:44:02 PM

shrkbay said:

EDIT2: Congratulations Matto17secs, you're soon gettin' addict :p  ;) 

Addict... that's why I'm taking a break. I also have a lot of really good real life things I need to shift focus onto.
a b U Graphics card
March 31, 2011 4:55:18 PM

shrkbay said:
^ in long run surely 6950 2GB version cause of:
1. more VRAM
2. possibility to flash
3. eyefinity *if you will want to add new screen or upgrade your monitor*

as far as i know copper plates are a bit better than silver etc, even the Asus Ares had one

if you're going to OC 560 to 1Ghz core then going with silver TFII will be problematic:
1. lower factory OC *only 20Mhz, but still*
2. worse components

if you're about to OC/flash*unlock shaders* then i'd take 6950 over 560, 560 is an awesome overclocker, but even it @ a 1050Mhz core won't beat a 6950 with unlocked shaders + overclock, yes 560 might have a better cooler, but it's power consumption could be a little smaller *you save 5$ yearly if you play 5 days per week 4hrs*, cause it's the same as by the unlocked 6950 + OC

You can't really go wrong with these cards, but CoD games usually prefer nVidia, while Battlefield likes AMD, higher resolution is also a point where AMD wins, i'm not sure about how these cards will run on Diablo 3, and unfortunately i couldn't find english review for SC2, but i found it on my language, and it comes out that it prefers AMD

http://nvision.pl/Radeon-HD-6950-vs-GeForce-GTX-560-Ti-...
Blizzard games do prefer Nvidia, not AMD.
EDIT2: Congratulations Matto17secs, you're soon gettin' addict :p  ;) 

a b U Graphics card
March 31, 2011 4:57:24 PM

It said what I meant to say in the wrong place. I was just going to say Blazzard games such as SC2 like Nvidia more.
a b U Graphics card
March 31, 2011 6:03:56 PM

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1533/9/
hmm, this shows that 6950 *both 1GB and 2GB* are better on higher res, but worse on lower
6950 1GB:
215,9 FPS @ 1280x1024
179,8 FPS @ 1920x1200
6950:
210,1 FPS @ 1280x1024
175,5 FPS @ 1920x1200
560:
220,1 FPS @ 1280x1024
162,4 FPS @ 1920x1200
13 FPS difference between 6950 *2GB* and 560 @ 1920x1200, 17 between 1GB and 560

EDIT: +2 more links saying that SC2 favors 6950, but now the difference is less

http://techgage.com/article/amd_hd_6950_1gb_vs_nvidia_g...

http://www.behardware.com/articles/818-11/report-geforc...
a b U Graphics card
March 31, 2011 6:53:53 PM

The hd6950 is normally an overall better card in the first place. GTX 460 vs. hd6850, the GTX 460 will win. Blizzard favors Nvidia.
a b U Graphics card
March 31, 2011 7:38:53 PM

^you mean in Blizzard games GTX 460 wins from 6850? And i can't argue that Blizzard favors Nvidia, but i linked these sites just to show that 6950 is better than 560 in SC2
a b U Graphics card
March 31, 2011 7:41:40 PM

shrkbay said:
^you mean in Blizzard games GTX 460 wins from 6850? And i can't argue that Blizzard favors Nvidia, but i linked these sites just to show that 6950 is better than 560 in SC2

I didn't know that. Normally Blizzard does favor Nvidia though.
a c 678 U Graphics card
March 31, 2011 8:05:36 PM

To read this chart, you look at the red middle bars. When they are on the left of center, that game favors the 6950. When they are to the right of center, that game favors the GTX 560.

Since these are numbers for reference cards, to gauge the performance of the MSI GTX 560 Twin Frozr at 880 mhz, add +6% to each red bar (+6.4% actually, for the Golden Edition, add +7%).


http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce-...
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