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Shooting with two 20D bodies - duplicate filenumber problem

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Anonymous
March 6, 2005 9:58:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I'm working with two Canon 20D cameras in my studio. I've found problems
with file numbering on jobs where I use both cameras -- I'm ending up with
the same filename coming out of both cameras, which is obviously a problem
when downloading various CFs to a computer. Does anyone else encounter this
problem, and how do you work with it?

On another, not dissimilar note, I have a colleague with a 20D. If he takes
one of my CF cards and loads it in his camera, his camera automatically
starts numbering from the point where mine left off. This is something I
don't understand at all -- as the file number is supposedly saved on the
camera, not the CF card. His camera was at number 3612 or so, but after
putting in one of my cards, he was shooting/downloading 7146+... He's
updated his firmware to the current version, which I think is 1.1.. Any
ideas what could cause this??

Thanx,
Wm

P.S. Replies CC'd to LAshooter at HoTMaiL greatly appreciated!
March 6, 2005 9:58:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 18:58:35 GMT, "LAshooter" <lashooter@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I'm working with two Canon 20D cameras in my studio. I've found problems
>with file numbering on jobs where I use both cameras -- I'm ending up with
>the same filename coming out of both cameras, which is obviously a problem
>when downloading various CFs to a computer. Does anyone else encounter this
>problem, and how do you work with it?

I use "downloader pro" and have set up a profile for each camera so
that DLP assigns an "A" "B" or "C" before the number depending on
which camera took the picture (2x10D and an Olympus C4000).

Alternately you can set up DLP to just rename totally with date/time
or something else you cook up.

>On another, not dissimilar note, I have a colleague with a 20D. If he takes
>one of my CF cards and loads it in his camera, his camera automatically
>starts numbering from the point where mine left off. This is something I
>don't understand at all -- as the file number is supposedly saved on the
>camera, not the CF card.

Nope, the camera takes it's cue from the card and will continue from
the highest number still on the card.


Drifter
"I've been here, I've been there..."
Anonymous
March 6, 2005 9:58:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

This as stated a very common problem with all Canon Digital cameras. I
had a 10D and then bought a 20D and was shooting with both. I deleted
what I thought were all the files on the CF cards and put them back in
the cameras. The 20D immediately started number at 578 even though it
had less the 100 on it. Fortunately it wasn't enough to worry about but
I'd have been upset if were several thousand.

Ar
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Anonymous
March 6, 2005 9:58:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I won't get dulicate numbers ever because I use breeze downloader to
transfer my images from card to hard drive. I set it up in batch to
always put the date after the image number and then in a dialog box it
lets me enter a job number, location name or anything else. If I was
using 2 bodies I could even enter which body and then in batch it would
tag the images with this data.

It was just something I didn't expect because I thought each camera
maintained it's count and would write the correct image number starting
point to the CF card. However, it defaults to the higher number if you
put a card in with a file already there that starts at 5000 instead of
the correct one which may be way less.

Art
Anonymous
March 6, 2005 9:58:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 18:58:35 GMT, "LAshooter" <lashooter@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I'm working with two Canon 20D cameras in my studio. I've found problems
>with file numbering on jobs where I use both cameras -- I'm ending up with
>the same filename coming out of both cameras, which is obviously a problem
>when downloading various CFs to a computer. Does anyone else encounter this
>problem, and how do you work with it?

A solution is to download each camera's pics into a different folder,
then do a batch rename with Irfanview or someother app. Once renamed,
you can mix'n'match to your heart's content. :-)

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
Anonymous
March 6, 2005 9:58:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Drifter wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 18:58:35 GMT, "LAshooter" <lashooter@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I'm working with two Canon 20D cameras in my studio. I've found
>> problems with file numbering on jobs where I use both cameras -- I'm
>> ending up with the same filename coming out of both cameras, which
>> is obviously a problem when downloading various CFs to a computer.
>> Does anyone else encounter this problem, and how do you work with it?
>
> I use "downloader pro" and have set up a profile for each camera so
> that DLP assigns an "A" "B" or "C" before the number depending on
> which camera took the picture (2x10D and an Olympus C4000).
>
> Alternately you can set up DLP to just rename totally with date/time
> or something else you cook up.
>
>> On another, not dissimilar note, I have a colleague with a 20D. If
>> he takes one of my CF cards and loads it in his camera, his camera
>> automatically starts numbering from the point where mine left off.
>> This is something I don't understand at all -- as the file number is
>> supposedly saved on the camera, not the CF card.
>
> Nope, the camera takes it's cue from the card and will continue from
> the highest number still on the card.
>

When I stick a new card in my camera and it continues in the correct
sequence, "How do it know"?


--
Please visit the Apostrophe Protection Site
http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk/
and make a commitment. Thank you.

Frank ess
Anonymous
March 6, 2005 9:58:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Drifter <zespectre@askme.com> wrote:


>Nope, the camera takes it's cue from the card and will continue from
>the highest number still on the card.
>
This is a problem for me as well, since my 10D jas "wrapped" and is
not generating low file numbers again. To make it worse, I just
picked up a Canon A95 is an "everywhere" camera, and it uses the same
filenaming convention.

I wish they'd add a menu selection to change the filename prefix in
different cameras. Hmm, time for a suggestion to Canon..

To reply, please remove one letter from each side of "@"
Spammers are VERMIN. Please kill them all.
March 6, 2005 9:58:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <1110148454.634861.139520@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
Fyimo <arthurw@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> This as stated a very common problem with all Canon Digital cameras. I
> had a 10D and then bought a 20D and was shooting with both. I deleted
> what I thought were all the files on the CF cards and put them back in
> the cameras. The 20D immediately started number at 578 even though it
> had less the 100 on it. Fortunately it wasn't enough to worry about but
> I'd have been upset if were several thousand.

This would not bother me. I would rather not have duplicate numbers.

--
Charles
March 6, 2005 9:58:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 16:34:34 -0500, Doug Warner
<dwarner22@ccharter.net> wrote:

>Drifter <zespectre@askme.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Nope, the camera takes it's cue from the card and will continue from
>>the highest number still on the card.
>>
>This is a problem for me as well, since my 10D jas "wrapped" and is
>not generating low file numbers again. To make it worse, I just
>picked up a Canon A95 is an "everywhere" camera, and it uses the same
>filenaming convention.
>
>I wish they'd add a menu selection to change the filename prefix in
>different cameras. Hmm, time for a suggestion to Canon..
>
>To reply, please remove one letter from each side of "@"
>Spammers are VERMIN. Please kill them all.

When I use Downloader Pro http://www.breezesys.com/products.htm I have
it set to rename everything to Year_Number_Camera (So for example
2005_4123_10D or 2005_3422_C4000).

I also reset the counters on my cameras at the beginning of every
year, so far I haven't exceeded 9999 images in one year. If I thought
that would be an issue I would probably add some other option to the
name.


Drifter
"I've been here, I've been there..."
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 12:00:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 18:58:35 GMT, "LAshooter" <lashooter@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I'm working with two Canon 20D cameras in my studio. I've found problems
>with file numbering on jobs where I use both cameras -- I'm ending up with
>the same filename coming out of both cameras, which is obviously a problem
>when downloading various CFs to a computer. Does anyone else encounter this
>problem, and how do you work with it?
>
>On another, not dissimilar note, I have a colleague with a 20D. If he takes
>one of my CF cards and loads it in his camera, his camera automatically
>starts numbering from the point where mine left off. This is something I
>don't understand at all -- as the file number is supposedly saved on the
>camera, not the CF card. His camera was at number 3612 or so, but after
>putting in one of my cards, he was shooting/downloading 7146+... He's
>updated his firmware to the current version, which I think is 1.1.. Any
>ideas what could cause this??
>
>Thanx,
>Wm
>
>P.S. Replies CC'd to LAshooter at HoTMaiL greatly appreciated!
>
>

"LAshooter",
this is a fairly common problem with many digital
cameras & sadly most manuals don't explain how the file naming
structure works. Since I have a few Canon cameras, all of which use
CF cards, I too have run into & had to correct the numbering problem
after sharing CF cards between them.

With that said I still don't fully understand exactly how it
works but I can tell you what I did to correct the problem & hopefully
it will for you & your friend's camera.

1st look at "ALL" of the files on your CF card & you should
find a file named "170.CTG" & a 1 named "D.CTG". The number in the
1st file name will reflect the name given to the file folder created
by the camera. Each file folder contains 100 pictures, so when your
camera was new it started with file 100.CTG then 101.CTG, 102.CTG,
etc....

Page 61 of your manual gives a very poor description of how
this works but you will still likely need this page as reference to
help you correct the problem.

Here is the problem as I understand it, the camera is
programmed to place picture numbers into these folders in the order
described above. What they don't tell you is that if the folder # on
the card is higher than the camera's picture #, it then switches over
to the higher # folder & file number on the CF card. To correct this
you need to set the camera to reset the # sequence back to 1 & then
reformat the card in the camera.

Now go back in & set the camera file # sequence back to it's
default setting which is to "not reset" the future pictures back to #
1 when a new CF is installed or reformatted in camera.

Now turn take 1 picture & then turn off the camera & place the
CF card is a (USB, Fire Wire or PCMCIA) card reader/writer on your
PC/notebook & rename the file folder & the picture # to what it should
be using the info. on page # 61 of your manual & doing the required
math. Also delete the "D.CTG" file completely & return the CF card
with the correctly renumbered folder & picture to the camera & take 1
more picture. If all worked properly the new picture number should be
1 # higher than the newly renumbered picture you took earlier.

Moral of the story is to "always" delete "ALL" files from a
memory card before placing it in a different camera or else this
problem may happen again, reformatting in camera is also a good idea
but that alone will not prevent the problem because a band new memory
card does not need to be formatted in camera for it to work because
the camera looks for the 2 XXX.CTG files when the camera is powered-up
& if they are not there it will create them!

Hope this helps & I remembered it all correctly because I ran
into this same problem well over a year ago with my Canon G2 & my A40
but the solution should be the same.

Lastly to avoid file name collisions between your 2 20D's, you
could use this method to jump the picture # sequence 1/2 way ahead
toward the maximum picture number supported by your camera. This is
not an ideal solution because eventually there will be overlap when
camera 1 reaches that same 1/2 way point or when camera 2 tops out &
needs to be reset back to the beginning, but it places the problem
into the future & hopefully you won't run into this problem before
upgrading your cameras.

Best of luck, I wish Canon & others gave more information
about these files in their manuals but I suspect they don't because
they are afraid it would encourage more people to change them & get
things messed up & then return the camera as "defective" because of
the now incorrect picture #'s being generated.

Respectfully, DHB


"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 1:40:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Frank ess wrote:
....
>>
>> Nope, the camera takes it's cue from the card and will continue from
>> the highest number still on the card.
>>
>
> When I stick a new card in my camera and it continues in the correct
> sequence, "How do it know"?

According to my manual that is what it will do, unless you tell it to
reset. I believe it an option.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
March 7, 2005 1:46:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Made the same mistake - 20D jumped from 350 - 4800 with nothing shot in
between...

Regards

DM

"Fyimo" <arthurw@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:1110148454.634861.139520@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> This as stated a very common problem with all Canon Digital cameras. I
> had a 10D and then bought a 20D and was shooting with both. I deleted
> what I thought were all the files on the CF cards and put them back in
> the cameras. The 20D immediately started number at 578 even though it
> had less the 100 on it. Fortunately it wasn't enough to worry about but
> I'd have been upset if were several thousand.
>
> Ar
>
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 1:48:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Fyimo wrote:
> This as stated a very common problem with all Canon Digital cameras. I
> had a 10D and then bought a 20D and was shooting with both. I deleted
> what I thought were all the files on the CF cards and put them back in
> the cameras. The 20D immediately started number at 578 even though it
> had less the 100 on it. Fortunately it wasn't enough to worry about
> but I'd have been upset if were several thousand.
>
> Ar

As I recall you can change the default to one of three numbering
schemas.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 2:34:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Fyimo" <arthurw@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:1110148454.634861.139520@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> This as stated a very common problem with all Canon Digital cameras

You obviously have not used the Canon 1 series digital cameras: Every one of
them has a different four digit prefix, like a serial number.
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 5:58:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Joseph Meehan wrote:
> Fyimo wrote:
>> This as stated a very common problem with all Canon Digital cameras.
>> I had a 10D and then bought a 20D and was shooting with both. I
>> deleted what I thought were all the files on the CF cards and put
>> them back in the cameras. The 20D immediately started number at 578
>> even though it had less the 100 on it. Fortunately it wasn't enough
>> to worry about but I'd have been upset if were several thousand.
>>
>> Ar
>
> As I recall you can change the default to one of three numbering
> schemas.

That is one of two. One is continuous no matter what card is in and the
other resets for each card. A quick look seemed to indicate that it would
make different folders on the cards as well.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 7:53:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

To correct this
you need to set the camera to reset the # sequence back to 1 & then
reformat the card in the camera.


Now go back in & set the camera file # sequence back to it's
default setting which is to "not reset" the future pictures back to #
1 when a new CF is installed or reformatted in camera.


Now turn take 1 picture & then turn off the camera & place the
CF card is a (USB, Fire Wire or PCMCIA) card reader/writer on your
PC/notebook & rename the file folder & the picture # to what it should

I tried this on my wife's G6 and it worked. her camera jumped 578
exposures also when I put a Cf card from my 10D. Last night I followed
your instructions and now here camera is back to where it should be. I
don't have to worry about duplicte numbers because of the software I
use when I transfer images. I just wanted to try to see if this worked
and it did.

Art
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 5:35:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Fyimo wrote:

> This as stated a very common problem with all Canon Digital cameras.
I
> had a 10D and then bought a 20D and was shooting with both. I deleted
> what I thought were all the files on the CF cards and put them back
in
> the cameras. The 20D immediately started number at 578 even though it
> had less the 100 on it. Fortunately it wasn't enough to worry about
but
> I'd have been upset if were several thousand.

You worry about this? When I put one of my 10D cards into my
brand-spanking new 1DMkII, it went from about 30 to 9800.

Yawn.

It's just a number. If anything, the camera should be generating
random 32 or 64 bit numbers just to emphasize -- to those lusers that
need to be told such things -- that the filenames are not intended for
long-term use.
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 12:35:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

<eawckyegcy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1110234925.828972.16370@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Fyimo wrote:
>
>> This as stated a very common problem with all Canon Digital cameras.
> I
>> had a 10D and then bought a 20D and was shooting with both. I deleted
>> what I thought were all the files on the CF cards and put them back
> in
>> the cameras. The 20D immediately started number at 578 even though it
>> had less the 100 on it. Fortunately it wasn't enough to worry about
> but
>> I'd have been upset if were several thousand.
>
> You worry about this? When I put one of my 10D cards into my
> brand-spanking new 1DMkII, it went from about 30 to 9800.
>
> Yawn.
>
> It's just a number. If anything, the camera should be generating
> random 32 or 64 bit numbers just to emphasize -- to those lusers that
> need to be told such things -- that the filenames are not intended for
> long-term use.
>

Yeah, but it can become an issue when d/l images from two cameras to DPP,
for instance. But it's a rare case, my wife's camera and mine, when we
first got them, sometimes duplicated file names, but we've shot enough since
then to diverge on the numbers.

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
March 12, 2013 8:18:01 PM

If you're really having trouble with having duplicate files. I would suggest you get a Duplicate Files Deleter, it can detect identical files and delete it if necessary. I got it here http://duplicatefilesdeleter.com
!