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Buying HD 5870. bottleneck?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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April 9, 2011 10:27:45 AM

Hey I want to buy asus hd 5870 v2 for my acer system. it has Q8400 processor and 500W psu and 4GB DDR3 RAM. Is this enough to run the GFX card without bottleneck. I was going to buy GTX 460 but changed my mind for a great deal.


heres pic of my psu to figure out the voltages and amps





and i read some reviews with says the gfx card keeps failing. a lot of reviews

More about : buying 5870 bottleneck

a b U Graphics card
April 9, 2011 2:56:13 PM

You read reviews saying what graphics card keeps failing???

Either of those choices is going to be bottlenecked by your cpu unless your running at least 3ghz.

That psu would be really cutting it close with either of those cards.
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a b U Graphics card
April 9, 2011 3:00:26 PM

OC your CPU to like 3Ghz and get 6870, it's going to run on that PSU
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Related resources
April 9, 2011 5:57:33 PM

OC my cpu? i asked few days ago if q8400 will bottleneck gtx 460 and everyone said its fine.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/313507-33-question-bo...


i read lots of reviews by customers saying the asus eah5870 v2 fails after/when playing games.


the thing is i dunno power requirement for asus eah5870 v2. But there is the xfx 5870 which power requirement is 500W.


Abt OCing CPU. i dont know if the stock fan could handle OCing
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a b U Graphics card
April 9, 2011 6:12:17 PM

I disagree, 2.7ghz will bottleneck a GTX460.

You can test this theory by running a graphics benchmark. Then overclock your cpu to 3ghz and benchmark it again. If the graphics score is higher with the overclocked cpu, you know you were bottlenecked.

The stock fan should handle an extra 300mhz.

That psu is more like a 400w psu, not 500w. My Antec 380w has 2- 17a rails. That 'supposed' 500w has 2- 18a rails.
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April 9, 2011 6:25:49 PM

what you are basically saying is that "supposed" 500w cant handle eah 5870v2. and how do figure that 2 to 12a rail thing. for future knowledge
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a c 130 U Graphics card
April 9, 2011 6:32:05 PM

geekapproved said:
I disagree, 2.7ghz will bottleneck a GTX460.

You can test this theory by running a graphics benchmark. Then overclock your cpu to 3ghz and benchmark it again. If the graphics score is higher with the overclocked cpu, you know you were bottlenecked.

The stock fan should handle an extra 300mhz.



There is no need to test it ( that isnt a very good test anyway) A Q 8400 wont bottleneck a GTX 460 not even close to it. You could over clock very nearly every CPU that is paired with a decent GPU and get a FPS increase. That is a restriction and every system has one somewhere.
Generally when people are asking about "bottlenecks" they mean will this CPU make the performance of this GPU unacceptably bad. Will it stop the GPU reaching a level of performance that would make buying said GPU a bad idea/waste of money.

@ nxym,
What resolution are you using ? You may not need a 5870 performance level.
What ever your resolution the 5870 will be too much card for your PSU my friend. a 460 or a 6850 or even a 6790 would be better suited.

Mactronix :) 
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April 9, 2011 6:34:28 PM

Then there is the xfx 5870 card. which says it need 500 Watt or greater power supply with two 75W 6-pin PCI Express power connectors recommended. I could buy this right?



edit

I dont know if i could agree with mactronix. xfx says 500W recommended for 5870. They wont say that if that graphics card couldnt handle it.


ive taked geekapproved word about the asus 5870. i guess i wont buy that card


im using 1080p resolution. acer h233h. i player high end games. and wanna play them at max.

i guess i could upgrade my psu. could you recommend me one
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a c 130 U Graphics card
April 9, 2011 6:57:20 PM

nxym said:
Then there is the xfx 5870 card. which says it need 500 Watt or greater power supply with two 75W 6-pin PCI Express power connectors recommended. I could buy this right?


The problem with PSU's is that they are not all equal. just because your PSU has 2 connectors and is rated at 500 Watts does not mean its good enough im afraid.
I will explain.
Your PSU has 500 watts on the label, and has 2 +12v rails that are rated at 18 Amps. The total Wattage for both rails is 360 which when divided by 12 = 30 Amps for both, not the 36 you might think.
Thats basically how you work out the true amperage available you divide the Wattage 360 in this case by the Volts 12 in this case. If you wanted to work out the 5v rail you would divide by 5.
So now we know that your PSU cant supply 18 Amps to both rails at the same time as it has a total of 30. For it to do so it would need to have a 12V rating of 432 Watts.

This link is of a good PSU where the wattage when divided by 12 is = to teh claimed Amperage. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ImageGallery.aspx?CurImag...

Maxtronix :) 
Click on the small pic of the power label (mostly yellow)
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a c 130 U Graphics card
April 9, 2011 6:59:53 PM

nxym said:
Then there is the xfx 5870 card. which says it need 500 Watt or greater power supply with two 75W 6-pin PCI Express power connectors recommended. I could buy this right?



edit

I dont know if i could agree with mactronix. xfx says 500W recommended for 5870. They wont say that if that graphics card couldnt handle it.


ive taked geekapproved word about the asus 5870. i guess i wont buy that card


im using 1080p resolution. acer h233h. i player high end games. and wanna play them at max.

i guess i could upgrade my psu. could you recommend me one



Budget ?

Mactronix :) 
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April 9, 2011 7:03:24 PM

150$ i guess. you havent answered the question abt the xfx card. it says 500W can handle 5870
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a c 130 U Graphics card
April 9, 2011 7:11:03 PM

nxym said:
150$ i guess. you havent answered the question abt the xfx card. it says 500W can handle 5870


Yes i did in quite some detail, just because it says 500w on the sticker does not mean it is.
You don't need to spend that much, others may no of better deals but i have always had a high regard for Corsair PSU's. this would be plenty for a 5870, any 5870.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Mactronix
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April 9, 2011 7:16:34 PM

God.......that not the point. xfx would probably say the labeled wattage. not the "actual" wattage.
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April 9, 2011 7:34:20 PM

nxym said:
God.......that not the point. xfx would probably say the labeled wattage. not the "actual" wattage.
What Mactronix is trying to say is that your PSU label is misleading and it's not a true 500w. Why buy a new video card and throw it on a used, stressed PSU? If it fails, there is the possibility that it will take other components with it. A good quality PSU is arguably the most important part of your system. If you're going to spend the money on a good video card, back it up with a sound power supply. Good luck with your purchase/s. :) 
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a c 130 U Graphics card
April 9, 2011 7:41:18 PM

nxym said:
God.......that not the point. xfx would probably say the labeled wattage. not the "actual" wattage.



Well i have tried to guide you with my knowledge and experience but it seems you either don't want to believe what im saying or you just don't understand. It seems like the first one to me it sounds like your trying to see it from a point that means you don't need a new PSU to run a 5870 (because you really want to).
Come on say it back to your self. Its not what it actually does that matters its what it says on the label is basically what you are trying to make yourself believe.
Good luck
Mactronix :) 
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a b U Graphics card
April 9, 2011 7:48:27 PM

It's definitely a bottleneck. Do the testing I suggested and it'll prove it. No need to continue speculating.
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a c 130 U Graphics card
April 9, 2011 8:07:49 PM

geekapproved said:
It's definitely a bottleneck. Do the testing I suggested and it'll prove it. No need to continue speculating.



Mate it wouldn't bottleneck your 5850 never mind a GTX 460, Toms did a test back when the i3 came out, which the Q 8400 is a very close match to by the way. They didn't test a Q 8400 but they did test CPU's that perform the same and in another article they even went lower and still nothing worth noting just a couple of FPS here and there.

"While we’ve often seen so-called CPU bottlenecks impeding the performance of our multi-GPU systems, today’s highest-quality gaming test has proven that when it comes to single-GPU systems, even a high-performance card like the Radeon HD 5850 can’t outstrip the capabilities of a modern low-cost CPU."


"Average performance differences are small and tend to favor AMD's architecture, which, given the pricing advantages of AMD products, in turn favors mid-budget gamers. Better news for AMD buyers is that even-cheaper Athlon II X3 processors offer similar gaming performance compared to today’s tested Phenom II X3 720, although using one would have prevented us from price-matching today’s configurations."

"Yet we did approach the limits of playability a few times, and some users are certain to exceed those limits by pushing resolutions even higher with ATI Eyefinity triple-monitor configurations. Having already reached the limits of our graphics card, this can’t be fixed by using a faster processor. Those users will instead be forced to reduce detail levels in exchange for increased pixel counts, but those added pixels still place the bottleneck at the GPU, rather than at the CPU, and a faster processor simply won’t be beneficial."

Source http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i3-gaming,2588...

Mactronix :) 
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a b U Graphics card
April 9, 2011 9:13:32 PM

At 1080P, not so much. At a lower resolution.....huge bottleneck.
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a c 130 U Graphics card
April 9, 2011 9:46:28 PM

geekapproved said:
At 1080P, not so much. At a lower resolution.....huge bottleneck.



And the op is using 1080p [:mousemonkey:5] God i hate it when people cant just say oh yea sorry your right my bad :pfff: 

Mactronix :) 
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a b U Graphics card
April 10, 2011 2:30:04 AM

I didn't see where he said 1080p till a bit ago.

Anything less than that would have been a bottleneck.

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April 10, 2011 9:11:25 AM

mactronix said:
The problem with PSU's is that they are not all equal. just because your PSU has 2 connectors and is rated at 500 Watts does not mean its good enough im afraid.
I will explain.
Your PSU has 500 watts on the label, and has 2 +12v rails that are rated at 18 Amps. The total Wattage for both rails is 360 which when divided by 12 = 30 Amps for both, not the 36 you might think.
Thats basically how you work out the true amperage available you divide the Wattage 360 in this case by the Volts 12 in this case. If you wanted to work out the 5v rail you would divide by 5.
So now we know that your PSU cant supply 18 Amps to both rails at the same time as it has a total of 30. For it to do so it would need to have a 12V rating of 432 Watts.

This link is of a good PSU where the wattage when divided by 12 is = to teh claimed Amperage. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ImageGallery.aspx?CurImag...

Maxtronix :) 
Click on the small pic of the power label (mostly yellow)




im sorry i didnt see this post. learned a bit from this. my psu says it deliver 18 amps to both rails but actually it cant since it has a combined 30amps not 36A. thats really misleading piece of *** of a psu.

ok i got it. my psu really sucks. but geekapproved said at 1080p wont bottleneck 5870 and maxtronix said the q8400 is enough. so i guess its just the psu. Thanks for the info and bearing with me.
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a c 130 U Graphics card
April 10, 2011 1:56:40 PM

Well we got there in the end thats all that matters isn't it :D 

Mactronix :) 
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