Htpc processor question

spaceman_spiff · Sep 19, 2011

I'm seeking to build a HTPC, but this is my first build; while technically capable, I have no experience of specifying individual components in a machine having, up until this time, bought pre-built systems. While I'm able to get a general idea of the overall performance of a machine (having kept myself up-to-date on the latest hardware releases via Tom's Hardware for the last few years) I've no idea whether individual components are capable of what I need them to do, or whether they are just overkill.

As previously mentioned, I'm intending to built a HTPC; however, all it really has to do is be a media server. In the short term I have almost 700 DVDs that need to be stored on hard drive for easy access; in the future I will probably replace these DVDs with Blu-ray versions, so I might end up pushing the storage much higher.

My intention is to connect it directly to a HD TV and home theatre amp / receiver, running Ubuntu linux 64 bit; using XBMC as the media software. I don't need to receive / record live TV; I'll probably use Chrome to watch online TV if I can't get it thought XBMC.

Really all it's got to do is access and play back .iso images from a locally-connected hard drive.

My initial thoughts were for an Intel Sandy Bridge CPU, as I believe it's worth spending a little more money for something which would last longer.

I was initially thinking of a quad-core CPU - probably a Core i5 2400S, but I've started to doubt this choice as surely it's overkill for a htpc? I thought a quad-core initially because, as I've mentioned, I've got almost 700 DVDs to backup as an .iso image to the hard drives - my thinking being that it would complete quicker with a faster CPU. But, as I thought further, I realised that I'm not trying to transcode the DVD; merely just seeking to copy it to the hard drive, preserving all the structure of the DVD intact.

So that made me think whether something like a Core i3 2100 would be better? Or is even this overkill? Would an AMD E350 APU be enough?

Or is it worth waiting until next year and waiting for Ivy Bridge?

But since I don't know how much processing power copying / backing up a DVD to hard disk actually needs, I thought I needed to ask people who know an awful lot more about CPUs than I do! All comments and suggestions to help a novice builder would be gratefully received!

Uther39 · Sep 19, 2011

I reckon the best HTPC CPU at the moment has to be

AMD A8 3850, Lynx Core, Quad Core, S FM1, 2.9GHz, 4MB Cache, GPU 600MHz, 100W, Retail

As it means you have a decent Quand Core CPU with a pretty amazing on die GPU which can not only easily run Blu Ray but even play games at medium settings.

eleclerc · Sep 19, 2011

Core i3 2100 can read blu-ray with stereo 3d!!!
I think this is the smartest choice you can do.

Intel® Core™ i3-2100 Specs :
http://ark.intel.com/products/53422/Intel-Core-i3-2100-Processor-%283M-Cache-3_10-GHz%29
Max TDP : 65 W!

Intel® HD Graphics 2000 in it!

Info about HD Graphics 2000
http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/quick-reference-guide-to-intel-processor-graphics/

For your DVD's, 4.7GB x 700 = 3.29TB
This is a lot of data! If you buy a 3TB HDD, think about a UEFI BIOS motherboard

simon12 · Sep 19, 2011

I think you should do some research into how you will copy 700 DVDs to the PC as I think it will take a serious amount of time and a huge hard drive or drives. I am not sure but I think the DVD drive will be the bottleneck to copying the disks so processor power may not be important (Please check I am not sure). I think Llano chips may be ideal for your requirements (or the E-350).

spaceman_spiff · Sep 19, 2011

Thanks, Uther39, eleclerc, and simon12 for your replies.

Uther39: I've not seen any benchmarks for the new AMD APUs, but I know they have far better GPUs than Intel's CPUs. Can you point me in the director of any benchmarks?

simon12: I know it'll take an awful long time - it's a 'long term' project!

That's why I wanted to ask just how much processing capability it would actually need to copy them, and if the Sandy Bridge CPUs are overkill.

Zenthar · Sep 19, 2011

If only used as a storage+playback device, pretty much any decent CPU released in the last 3-4 years will be enough; the bottleneck will probably be the DVD drive anyway

.

As for keeping ISO versions of DVD and/or BluRay, have you estimated the amount of memory that will require as it might be a reason to transcode them; 700 DVDs, if they use the full 8GB they can hold will take close to 6TB of space ...

spaceman_spiff · Sep 19, 2011

Zenthar :

Thanks Zentar.

Yep, as mentioned above this is a long term project - including the copying of the DVDs!

Yeah, I've already posted a question on the hard drive section of the forums - I realise I'll be looking at at least 3 x 2TB drives (as 2TB are substantially cheaper than 3TB in the UK). And I realise there's no quick way around the copying of the DVDs …

spaceman_spiff · Sep 19, 2011

eleclerc :

Thanks for the info eleclerc, particularly for the UEFI BIOS warning …

pacioli · Sep 19, 2011

i3 2105 and i3 2125 have the HD 3000 on them.

Uther39 · Sep 19, 2011

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+A8-3850+APU+with+Radeon+HD+Graphics

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2011/06/30/amd-a8-3850-review/1

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-a8-3850-llano,2975.html

spaceman_spiff · Sep 19, 2011

Uther39 :

Thanks for the links, Uther39! Interesting read …

popatim · Sep 19, 2011

The graphics chips in the Intels (HD, HD2000, & HD3000) have issues with playing 24p. If you are a videophile and use the 24p refresh rate then you will need an aftermarket card. I'm not sure if the E350 or the new A6 or A8 APU's rate well for this or not.

I have the i3-2105 in one htpc and an AMD phenom ii x3 with hd4250 graphics in another. Both play videos fine, can handle light gaming for the grandkids, and run Win7 & Media Center without any slowness. Some one private messaged me why I went with an x3, well its just as power full as the A8 but only cost $50. The motherboard was $50 and the integrated graphics does everything I need it to. So for $100 I couldn't go wrong. You only need the A8 if you plan on gaming (a bit more in than what the hd4250 can handle) in your living room.

spaceman_spiff · Sep 19, 2011

popatim :

Thanks popatim. I'm guessing that, as I'm not sure if I'll be using 24p or not, that I'm not a videophile!

But it's something else for me to think about if I find out that I am using 24p (actually, I think my Camcorder can record in HD 24p mode) - but I wouldn't be putting that through the htpc anyway …

jaguarskx · Sep 20, 2011

My 2 cents on this topic...

Since it does not seem you are going to encode the DVDs, but strictly store them in your HTPC, then you really do not need much processing power. DVD videos are pretty much very easy to play with any single core processor. For example, my 1st HTPC was built around a single core Athlon XP-M 2600+ back in 2003. I encoded most of my movies to AVI files using DivX, but I did store some direct DVD rips for playback. I had an AIW Radeon 9600 Pro graphics card and there were no playback issues (such as stuttering) whatsoever.

Blu-Ray videos or any HD video format generally requires more processing power to decode the video stream compared to DVDs. Therefore, a dual core CPU is recommended along with a graphics card (basically any modern one will do) to assist in the decoding for video playback w/o any issues.

Ripping DVDs or Blu-rays is really limited by the CPU at all. Ripping is generally limited by the DVD / Blu-Ray drive and the write speed of the hard drives. There will be no ripping performance difference between a single, dual, triple or quad core CPU.

It is a toss-up between the AMD Llano A4, A6, A8 APUs or a Core i3-2105 CPU. I would probably go with whatever is the least expensive. However, if encoding video is something you are considering doing, like encoding movie to a MKV file using the x.264 codec, then a powerful quad core CPU is recommended like the Core i5-2500k.

Llano APUs basically have weak CPU cores and a strong graphics core. The "Sandy Bridge" Core i3-2105 has a strong CPU core and a somewhat weak graphics core (Intel HD 3000). Either one is more than enough for your needs.

bob100684 · Sep 20, 2011

FWIW, with DVD drives being so cheap these days, you could go for two optical drives....that would almost halve your time of ripping. In terms of storage, obviously more compression is detrimental, but take a look at something you reincode to say an mkv or xvid. If the quality is good enough, why not go that way and save yourself storage space?

yo_yo2400 · Sep 20, 2011

spaceman_spiff · Sep 20, 2011

jaguarskx :

Thanks, jaguarskx, for the information. That's what I thought, but I needed to check.

jaguarskx :

That's what I'd already found - I've already got a Nehalem Core i7, but a slower DVD drive on my desktop and it took about twenty minutes to write a complete DVD. I knew it couldn't be limited by the Core i7, so I thought it had to be the DVD drive …

jaguarskx :

I realise that the Llano APUs have a weak CPU; is it worth waiting until the 'Stars' cores are replaced by the Bulldozer APUs (is that right?). In the same way, would it be worth waiting until Ivy Bridge processors come out, as they are supposed to have better graphics performance? (I should point out that there are no time limits for this build.)

jaguarskx :

This might be something that I end up doing in the future; that's why I had considered Intel SB as I knew they were more efficient CPUs than AMD's current generation.

As a compromise, what would the i5 2400S / 2500S be like (I thought a 65w part would be better for an HTPC than a 95w part)?

Then again, I suppose I could always swap the processor a couple of years down the line if I need more power …

spaceman_spiff · Sep 20, 2011

bob100684 :

Thanks, bob100684 - that's looking laterally, and I would never have considered it; in fact, I never knew it was possible to copy two DVDs at the same time! I wanted to preserve the DVDs intact, including all menus, etc.; but if it's possible to do that whilst compressing them at the same time, it's certainly something I'll look at.

spaceman_spiff · Sep 20, 2011

yo_yo2400 :

That's great, yo_yo2400! That's really helpful!

leandrodafontoura · Sep 20, 2011

Friend, you need a processor that has a small TDP, so that the fan coolin it doesnt produce noise. that can ruin your HTPC experience. For what you want its ok to go with any Sandy bridge, as longs as its TDP is 45W maximum. that includes the Pentium Sandy Bridges, wich are 35W and only $90. They are perfectly capable of deliverin 1080p blueray without any loss in quality. BTW, these small TDP processors alredy come with a low profile heatsink, as HTPC cases are usually low in height.

Having said all that, I would wait for Ivy Bridge, as its expected to bring quad cores to 35W and at lower prices.

You will need some TB hard drives for all the DVD backups. Make sure the drives are 5400RPM, this specs is low noise and no heat. 7200RPM would produce noise and heat and its not recomended for HTPC.

BTW, you do not need a videocard, onboard HDMI is fine!

jbart1981 · Sep 20, 2011

A processor nobody seems to have mentioned yet is the I5-2500T 45W same basic performance as the 2400S for 20w less. Only HD2000 but on z68 MB with quicksync should be plenty to do 1080p playback. With 4 physical core and a 3.3GHz turbo freq should be more than up to the task of copying multiple DVD's at once. Depending on the case you use should be able to go with a fanless heatsink.

spaceman_spiff · Sep 20, 2011

Thanks leandrodafont and jbart1981! I'd not even though of fan noise, so that's another consideration! I'd thought of using 'green' drives, mainly because they are, in the UK, half the price of regular / performance drives, and my budget is pretty tight!

Zenthar · Sep 20, 2011

jbart1981 :

With an i5-2500T, you could probably go with an H67/H61 chipset also if you don't plan on using a dedicated graphic card.

spaceman_spiff · Sep 20, 2011

Zenthar :

Thanks, Zenthar. Initially I don't intend to use a discrete GPU, but I might find in the future it's an upgrade worth making.

Incidentally, after looking at Anandtech's coverage of Ivy Bridge, I am tempted to hold off the build until IVB is released, especially on account of the lower TDP and increased GPU performance.

jbart1981 · Sep 20, 2011

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130570

Also - "Ivy Bridge is backwards compatible with existing LGA-1155 motherboards, although there will be a new chipset for Ivy Bridge and new motherboards to enable some features (e.g. PCI Express 3.0, native USB 3.0)."

Which means to me - and I might be wrong - you could always upgrade the CPU to an IvyBridge later but won't get the advantages of PCI 3.0 or onboard USB 3.0 which really should not be a big deal since most MB have a solid separate USB 3.0 chip and you won't need PCI 3.0 without a super high end graphics card

Will 700 DVD's to get copied I would say the sooner you start the better

Htpc processor question

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