Spirit Armor and Bard Song

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

I had Edwin cast Spirit Armor on my Protected from Evil
character who saved vs spell at 21. I've wondered how,
ok actually I've wondered if, Spirit Armor worked,
considering that I never see for example a description like
"save versus spell: 18+3" or whatever the exact phrasing
would be.

Is this correct: Spirit Armor adds three to the number
rolled versus spells and this modified number is what
appears onscreen.

And is the same mechanism at work for Bard Song? I
haven't checked this for BG2 but during a recent game
of BG1 I noticed that Bard Song didn't produce a visible
change in opponents attack rolls. IOW, the attack modifiers
for opponents stayed the same after the Song went into
effect as they were prior to it starting up.

It does actually work, doesn't it?
And does anyone know at what rate Bard Song effects increases.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

"kevin" <completely@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:EKwYc.64962$xi6.23302@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>
> I had Edwin cast Spirit Armor on my Protected from Evil
> character who saved vs spell at 21. I've wondered how,
> ok actually I've wondered if, Spirit Armor worked,
> considering that I never see for example a description like
> "save versus spell: 18+3" or whatever the exact phrasing
> would be.
>

oh good grief!

I mean -

Is this correct: Pro from Evil adds two to the number
rolled versus spells and this modified number is
that appears onscreen.

And is the same mechanism at work for Bard Song? I
haven't checked this for BG2 but during a recent game
of BG1 I noticed that Bard Song didn't produce a visible
change in opponents attack rolls. IOW, the attack modifiers
for opponents stayed the same after the Song went into
effect as they were prior to it starting up.

It does actually work, doesn't it?
And does anyone know at what rate Bard Song effects increases.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

>I had Edwin cast Spirit Armor on my Protected from Evil
>character who saved vs spell at 21. I've wondered how,
>ok actually I've wondered if, Spirit Armor worked,

For the spell protection from evil Well that depends on what game you are in.
In BG 1 protection from evils beifits work against all enemies and protects you
from charm. In BG 2 protection from evils beifits only work against evil
enemies and make summoned demons not able to attack you at all. Note that
doesn't apply to all demons since not all demons are gender summoned_demon.
And the BG 2 version does not protect against charming.

>considering that I never see for example a description like
>"save versus spell: 18+3" or whatever the exact phrasing
>would be.

Many benifits of many spells don't show up in your character screen.
Protection from evil won't show an ac or save change in BG 2 since it only
applies against evil enemies and summoned demons and not all enemies. And if
your base AC due to magic items , armor, robes or bracers is lower than what
spirit armor could give you then spirit armor won't change your AC at all.
That is why I check if you have items equipts in my SuperScripts that would
cancel out effects of armor, spirit armor and ghost armor and make casting them
useles and a waste of time. Of course the items to check for are differnt for
each spell since they offer different levels of armor protection but the same
idea works for each.

>
>Is this correct: Spirit Armor adds three to the number
>rolled versus spells and this modified number is what
>appears onscreen.

Spirit armor adds +3 to saves vs spell yes. But not to other saves. It sets a
base AC of 1 as well. And it causes magic dammage to the caster when it wears
out. Do you mean why the save didn't show up as changed for both protection
from evil and spirt armor? Because the benfits in the case of protection from
evil in BG 2 are very real but only effect evil and summoned demon enemies so
they don't change the character screen since they don't apply to all enemies.

>
>And is the same mechanism at work for Bard Song? I
>haven't checked this for BG2 but during a recent game
>of BG1 I noticed that Bard Song didn't produce a visible
>change in opponents attack rolls. IOW, the attack modifiers
>for opponents stayed the same after the Song went into
>effect as they were prior to it starting up.

Its one of those things that though it does affect you it doesn't show up in
the character screen.

>
>It does actually work, doesn't it?
>And does anyone know at what rate Bard Song effects increases.
>

In BG 1 it doesn't change at all. Bard song is bard song period. It doesn't
improve at all in BG 1.

In BG 2 it stays the same (though some bard kits have a differnt version of it
even so their respective versions don't improve by level) until you get high
enough level to get the high level ability enhanced bard song. At that point
you simply have the enhanced bard song and the old version you had is gone
forever.

In both games you have only one bard song at a time no matter what level you
are. And only in BG 2 do you get a chance to upgrade that song once and only
once.

Its only in IWD 1 and IWD 2 that you have multiple bard songs in the same bard
and have a choice as to which to use as you level up.

 

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Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

"MPrilla" <mprilla@aol.com> wrote in message:

[snip]

Thanks for the Bard Song info - the strange thing is that the
game lists as a disadvantage of the Blade a warning that
their Bard Song doesn't improve which had me assuming that
the others did in addition to the later HLA one.

Then again, the game also says that blades have a pickpocket
penalty which isn't actually the case.

Ha, as for my main question, I completely botched it both times,
but you did a good job of sorting it out anyway.

let me try again though, because I'm still unsure of this...

ok, here's what happened:

I have Korgan already under Protection from Evil and
then Edwin (evil character, of course) casts Spirit
Armor on Korgan. It's actually PfE that I'm concerned
about, not Spirit Armor. Spirit Armor just happened to
be the spell that was cast when I (perhaps) noticed
something about PfE.

Anyway, the battle log message shows this - Korgan save vs
Spells: 21.

The base roll is the range 1-20, right? I'm guessing that
a total of 21 means that the actual roll was 19 and then to
that roll was added an additional two points from the Pro.
from Evil a result of an evil character, Edwin, being the one
who cast the spell on Korgan.

So here's a question:

If Imoen rather than Edwin had cast the spell with the
same actual roll would it have appeared as this: Korgan
save vs spells: 19

So, if true it means then that if you have an entire
group already under protection from evil and have for
mages Edwin and Imoen that the target character will
have a better chance of making a saving roll if Edwin
casts a spell such as Spirit Armor on them than they
will if Imoen casts the spell since Edwin is evil and
the target therefor gets a +2 bonus to their roll.

Pro from Evil also gives a two point armor class
bonus and this bonus is also invisible in the
sense that it doesn't appear as a distinct modifier.
For example, a non PfE character is attacked by an
evil creature and the roll is displayed like this:
14+3 = 17: Miss Ok, a PfE character with the
identical roll would be displayed like this:
12+3 = 15: Miss

Is this correct in regard to the effect of PfE?

 

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Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

>"MPrilla" <mprilla@aol.com> wrote in message:
>
>[snip]
>
>Thanks for the Bard Song info - the strange thing is that the
>game lists as a disadvantage of the Blade a warning that
>their Bard Song doesn't improve which had me assuming that
>the others did in addition to the later HLA one.

The manual is very often wrong.

>
>Then again, the game also says that blades have a pickpocket
>penalty which isn't actually the case.
>
>Ha, as for my main question, I completely botched it both times,
>but you did a good job of sorting it out anyway.
>
>let me try again though, because I'm still unsure of this...
>
>ok, here's what happened:
>
>I have Korgan already under Protection from Evil and
>then Edwin (evil character, of course) casts Spirit
>Armor on Korgan. It's actually PfE that I'm concerned
>about, not Spirit Armor. Spirit Armor just happened to
>be the spell that was cast when I (perhaps) noticed
>something about PfE.
>
>Anyway, the battle log message shows this - Korgan save vs
>Spells: 21.
>
>The base roll is the range 1-20, right? I'm guessing that
>a total of 21 means that the actual roll was 19 and then to
>that roll was added an additional two points from the Pro.
>from Evil a result of an evil character, Edwin, being the one
>who cast the spell on Korgan.

Ah there shouldn't be a save for spirit armor I am sure there is but there
shouldn't be one at all its a defensive spell after all.

>
>So here's a question:
>
>If Imoen rather than Edwin had cast the spell with the
>same actual roll would it have appeared as this: Korgan
>save vs spells: 19

Yea if there is a save for spirt armor. I never noticed it probably because I
don't cast it on other party members for two reasons generaly only mages need
it and the second reason it does dammage to you when it wears off. Still
clearly they messed up by making a save for a spell that should not have one.
Its like having a save when a fellow party member casts bless or aid or
whatever on you.

>
>So, if true it means then that if you have an entire
>group already under protection from evil and have for
>mages Edwin and Imoen that the target character will
>have a better chance of making a saving roll if Edwin
>casts a spell such as Spirit Armor on them than they
>will if Imoen casts the spell since Edwin is evil and
>the target therefor gets a +2 bonus to their roll.

Well, yea but of course PC shouldn't be needing a save vs each other.

>
>Pro from Evil also gives a two point armor class
>bonus and this bonus is also invisible in the
>sense that it doesn't appear as a distinct modifier.
>For example, a non PfE character is attacked by an
>evil creature and the roll is displayed like this:
>14+3 = 17: Miss Ok, a PfE character with the
>identical roll would be displayed like this:
>12+3 = 15: Miss
>
>Is this correct in regard to the effect of PfE?
>

Well, you don't always face evil enemies. Just because the bad guy is trying
to kill you doesn't mean he is alignment evil. Many are not. In fact far more
than most people think are not evil at all

So you face a mindless zombie who is neutral. You don't get the AC or save
bonus at all in BG 2 when facing him. You do in BG 1 but that is just because
they messed up when they made BG 1.

You then face a lich you get the ac and save bonus when facing the lich since
the lich is evil. But that leaves others that should be alignment evil but
probably are not. Bioware did a great job on these games but not every enemy is
the right class or alignment. When scripting we noticed that many enemies are
flagged as mages who clearly are not. Like slimes wyvern and others. One way
to not have scripting problems for that was to check that the mage you are
targeting is not a slime. However there are several creatures like that and
doing all that checking makes your script longer and longer. So what I did
instead was reclass those misclassed creatures to the right class and include
them to be put in the overide directory with my scripts.

I strongly suspect that there are a lot of misaligned enemies that should be
evil but are not. I didn't check for that but seeing as how I too have noticed
that protection from evil is not as useful as it should be I would think that
is the problem.