Unusually slow UEFI Boot Time

[bikeracer4487]

I originally posted this in the homebuilt systems section, but it got no responses and I'm thinkin' it might not have been the right section. Since I don't REALLY know where the holdup is, I'm still not sure the right section, but since I've verified I'm getting the proper throughput on my hard drive, I'm assuming it's with the mother board...but anyways, on to the actual issue: (oh, and I also realized I was off on the boot times, so I timed the startup myself)

I recently upgraded to a UEFI board, and had some trouble initially with making sure I did a UEFI Windows install, but eventually I got it sorted with some help from forum members, but now I just can't help but feel that I'm missing something. Windows is installed onto a Vertex 3 SSD with the latest firmware, and I verified I did the initial installation correctly...but my boot times are still slow. Not, like 10 minutes from start to desktop but it varies between 10-15 seconds on the logo screen and around 45 seconds on the Windows loading screen. That's not really BAD, but I've heard people saying they're getting cold boot times of under 10 seconds, and I even have a UEFI laptop that does just that. I have a high-end, overclocked system that SHOULD be booting wicked fast, but it's not, and I'm hoping someone can help me figure out what I'm missing.

 

[Raiddinn]

Take out all the hardware that you don't absolutely have to have in order to boot to Windows and see how long the boot time takes.

Use onboard video instead of the video card. Get rid of 3x RAM sticks, any data only hard drives, any CD drives, anything USB other than a mouse and keyboard, etc.

Also, be aware that everything you install and uninstall will make things perform worse.

 

[jaquith]

Typically this is a sign of Memory, the UEFI go through a process @ boot to check the: RAM, CPU, MOBO, etc -- i.e. all of those LEDs you see it polling through.

There are a couple versions of "16GB (4x4GB) Corsair Vengeance DDR3-1600" -- one is a Dual Channel kit and the other is a Quad Channel kit but each has different CAS Timings.

Q - What Vengeance kit? ; please provide a link

In the UEFI (BIOS) make certain AI Overclock Turner -> XMP and look at the VCCSA Voltage in particular. The difference between some Dual (24) & Quad (27) is the TRAS timing and the VCCSA and/or PLL Voltages. There are 9-9-9-24 Quad kits, but being optimized for Quad Channel includes both deeper timings i.e. beyond (CAS-TRCD-TRP-TRAS) and deeper Voltages i.e. beyond (DRAM and VCCSA).

Example:
CMZ16GX3M4X1600C9 9-9-9-27 ; Quad
CMZ16GX3M4A1600C9 9-9-9-24 ; Dual

Further, I've found the best way to install the OS on an X79 is to set the Intel SATA -> RAID and if needed set it back to AHCI later. This insures the Intel RSTE driver is installed to reduce corruption down the line and reduce some other oddball issues like waking from hybrid sleep, etc -- and added benefit is improved HDD (R/W).

Guide - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/303873-30-wont-resume-sleep-booted-raid#t2068879

 

[bikeracer4487]

@Raiddinn Since I went with Sandy Bridge-E instead of regular Sandy Bridge, I have no onboard video, and actually, as part of the guide I followed, I didn't end up connecting any of my other hard drives or peripherals until all drivers were installed, and the difference in boot time was negligible. Which is incidentally why I'm having such a hard time pinpointing the problem, because I've never seen it fast boot, so I've been unable to isolate a cause.

@Jaquith: Hey, I actually followed your guide when installing Windows, but I loaded the AHCI driver instead of the RAID, since I didn't want to add a step. I'll try loading the RAID, since I don't have much to lose, but right now I'm crossing my fingers that you might be right about the RAM timings. As to your question, apparently I bought DUAL channel memory, which kind of shocked me looking it up just now, but I've been rather naively operating under the assumption that: 1) all 4x... kits are quad channel, 2) quad channel is referring more to the motherboard's capabilities and only need 4 identical DDR3 dimms. That opinion was further cemented when CPU-Z reported the memory Channel # as "Quad". In any case, the memory I purchased is CMZ16GX3M4A1600C9B, and though my timings are at 9-9-9-24, evidently during my overclocking I bumped the speed down to 667MHz and somehow missed that until just now.

 

[jaquith]

CMZ16GX3M4A1600C9B is a Dual Channel kit. I don't recommend modifications to my Guide and the few folks that did what I know you did ended-up re-installing the OS. 9/10 setting the Intel SATA -> RAID will result in a BSOD.

CMZ16GX3M4A1600C9B ; DDR3-1600 9-9-9-24-2N @ 1.50v

Assuming no CPU OC:

(Try but not recommended):
AI Overclock Tuner -> XMP
VCCSA -> Manual
VCCSA Voltage -> 1.20v

(Dual Channel - recommended):
AI Overclock Tuner -> Auto
DRAM Timing Control /Enter
DRAM CAS Latency -> 9
DRAM RAS to CAS -> 9
DRAM RAS PRE -> 9
DRAM RAS ACT -> 24 ; if needed use 25~27
DRAM Command Time -> 2
- let the secondary be calculated by the BIOS (Auto)
DRAM Voltage (AB) -> 1.50v ; if needed 1.55v
DRAM Voltage (CD) -> 1.50v ; if needed 1.55v
VCCSA -> Manual
VCCSA Voltage -> 1.20v

F10 Save & Exit = Yes

 

[smorizio]

to the op...check that you have the newest bios for your mb..the newer bios have patches for cpu code...ram and usb devices.
i have the asus 7zz sabertooth it has the same bios as you with a few tweaks. both of our mb have two bios the efi and the older one. there also two sata chipset on our mb the intel ones and a third party chipset. check that the ssd is on the intel 6g port and not on the other port and that the other ssd chipset is off. in the boot screen under advance turn off logo...there also a wait time for error reporting/hit f1/delete key. on my bios i can set the wait time from 1 sec to 30 sec. i have mine set at one sec.
then go under cd-rom and hard drive boot devices. if you have one cd-rom it only show up one device.under hard drive you see your ssd and hard drive. it be numbered (0) intel ssd.... (1) wd hard drive model xxxxx. go into that menu make the ssd the first boot device and turn off the second boot device. boot into windows and open msi config. in start up turn everything off but your anti virus and then go under advace mode and turn off gui boot. you want see the windows start splash screen any more..
with asus the audio driver are bloatware. it take 10-20 for them to load at start up where you dont need most of the time the realteck control panel or nvidia or ati. the last thing thta can slow an ssd down is old anti virus engine. the newer ones are written better and for windows 8 that going to have even faster boot time them windows 7.

 

[jaquith]

Note to BIOS revisions:
1203 ; fine
1103 ; fine
1009 ; bad
0906 ; fine

 

[bikeracer4487]

@smorizio: I currently have the SSD as the 1st boot device, and I tried disabling the GUI on the boot, but I found that it made no noticeable difference in bootup time and I prefer having a visual indicator that it's starting up.

@smorizio & Jaquith: I'm currently running version 1103, though I see that 1203 was released a couple days ago, so I'll update that while I'm in the BIOS.

 

[jaquith]

I seriously doubt it's the BIOS version 1103 vs 1203.

One known issue with updating the BIOS on ASUS is ASUS PC Diagnostics with OEM typically PASSES whereas updating the BIOS renders a FAIL.

 

[smorizio]

i dont know if it windows 8 on my pc or one of the bios settings. on my sabertooth i can go from a cold boot into windows 8 in about 10 sec. All i see is amd boot screen once then black windows 8 screen. for about 1/2 sec then im in to the windows 8 desktop.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v340/plushdragon/?action=view&current=120619143706.jpg
i made the ssd in that menu the first device and turned off hard drive as number two.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v340/plushdragon/?action=view&current=120619143607.jpg
those are my settings when you change them from factory default you have to set your ssd back as the first boot device.
with those setting only the efi bios will load. if you want the old bios to run switch it over. by default most of them are set to both boot.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v340/plushdragon/?action=view&current=120619143548.jpg
full screen logo off. i dont see the gray asus logo.
post report 1 sec..the longer that time is set the longer you see the ami bios screen.
option rom...if you have a video card or other cards that have roms and you want to see them at post leave it at default..i cnaged it so all i see is the mb post screen i dont see the nvidia video card post rom.

 

[jaquith]

If after the BIOS and RAM is ruled-out (??) then I'd be looking at the other components and start with watching the LEDs and see where the 'lag' is if any.

Typically, a >30 second is a tell tale of a SATA time-out, make the SSD as the 1st boot priority. Also, make certain the SSD has the latest firmware. My experience with SSD's is ANY time I change (upgrade) the firmware I ALWAYS follow it by a Secure Erase and outlined in my Guide - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/303873-30-wont-resume-sleep-booted-raid#t2068879

Example: SSD Secure Erase - http://blog.ocztechnology.com/?p=367

 

[bikeracer4487]

The longest delay is during the GUI that loads Windows. I would assume the SATA timeout would occur during the POST screen, no? As for the firmware upgrade, as per your guide, I updated the firmware and did a secure erase both before AND after the upgrade, when I installed Windows.

 

[jaquith]

Once you see the 'hand-off' i.e. the animated Windows aka GUI it's all Windows. However, there's a little period in between that can be either; see below:

Post (BIOS and hardware) -> GUI animation (voltages) early |<hand-off>| later Windows (drivers) -> Windows screen (startup items ; MSCONFIG).

Often OC's fail during the hand-off, where you'll see a little jump in the screen.

Try (2) different sets of settings - run MSCONFIG:
1. General | [x] Diagnostic startup ; Windows
2. Boot | [x] Safe boot / [x] minimal and Timeout = 1 seconds ; drivers

/you can turn-off the GUI in 'Boot'...I don't./

IF the results are the same and it still takes a longtime to boot then it's 9/10 a voltage issue or some BIOS tweak needed.

I assume that you ram Memtest and there were NO errors with a minimum of 4 full passes ; link - http://www.memtest.org/

/edit - I assume there's no {? or !} listed in the Device Manager -- and that you installed ALL of the drivers per ASUS.

MSCONFIG:

 

[vicbyrd]

The stock windows 8 driver for USB3 (Asmedia USB3.0 Controller Drive) on my P8Z68 board caused 30 - 45 second windows boot delay. I disabled the controller in device manager and boot time went from 40 secs to 10 secs. ASMedia_usb3_v1.14.8.0 drivers from www.station-drivers.com fixed the issue.

 

[jaquith]

NEVER use drivers from "Station Drivers" or any thirdparty source, use them off of the (1st choice) MOBO's site or Intel's (scan) - http://www.intel.com/p/en_US/support/detect?iid=dc_iduu

Keep in mind some drivers also include a 'ROM Flash' and can brick your MOBO or at minimum cause the add-on chipset to never work again. The worst culprit is Marvell.

 

[bikeracer4487]

Well, I set mobo settings back to default, and then adjusted memory timings and voltages to their indicated values (though I had set the memory voltage to 1.5v earlier), and manually set the memory speed at DDR3-1600. I was still a bit confused about dual channel vs quad channel, so I ran a SiSoft Sandra memory bandwidth benchmark and got >40 GB/s, so memory performance is where it should be.

I tried the msconfig options, but it appears I did both the diagnostic AND the safe boot on the same boot-up, as opposed to separately, which might explain why that actually seemed to take LONGER...I'll try that again, properly this time.

It's looking like I might need to try a complete reinstall, but I'm not real hopeful since I'm fairly certain the AHCI driver is loaded just fine, and I'm not sure what difference loading the RAID driver is going to make, since I'm not using a RAID configuration.

As far as drivers go, I'm EXTREMELY wary of downloading from sources other than Asus and Intel, since I just don't trust 3rd party distributors when it comes to drivers.

@Jaquith There are certain onboard devices, such as the Realtek ethernet controller, front panel audio, and the 2nd SATA controller (Asmedia, I believe), that I disable right away since I don't use those devices, and therefore don't install the drivers for them. I've been under the impression that since the devices are disabled at the BIOS-level, there'd be no need to install the drivers for them in Windows, or is this not correct.

 

[jaquith]

Sorry - went to the Dentist today and I'm just now up and around from being sedated -- the lesson for today is to FLOSS!

The only drivers that 'I' never Installed are the Realtek and instead I'm using Windows default drivers.

I might suggest that you Enable the 'Disabled' devices, install all of the drivers, boot a couple times then Disable in the BIOS.

Per the Guide, note all of the Bold items -- they'e bold for good reason i.e. problems for those coloring outside the lines; Guide - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/303873-30-wont-resume-sleep-booted-raid#t2068879

 

[Dark Lord of Tech]

Could this be a TRIM issue?

 

[jaquith]

I've never run across TRIM causing this on any boot issue.

TRIM:
Start | type CMD right-click and Run as administrator
type fsutil behavior query disabledeletenotify

disabledeletenotify=0 ; TRIM is enabled.

 

[vicbyrd]

To solve your problem open this thread

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/140247-trace-windows-7-bootshutdownhibernatestandbyresume-issues/

and follow the instructions. MagicAndre1981 is a guru at reading traces and can "instantly" point out the problem (if you post your trace and request assistance). Additionally you can learn exactly what's going on when your system boots.

It takes a little while to download and install the Windows Performance Toolkit but compared to troubleshooting in the dark it's a nit.

 

[bikeracer4487]

Well, I did clean install of Windows over the weekend, just in case. Followed Jaquith's (and "Sean's Windows 7 Installation Guide", that was linked to) to the letter, loading the RAID driver instead of the AHCI driver, but saw not noticeable difference. Turned off gui boot, but that didn't seem to have any effect either. When I get home I'll try running Magicandre's tracelog to see if maybe anything jumps out at him or me...

 

[vicbyrd]

Good luck! Please post back as you make progress.

 

[Raiddinn]

@Raiddinn Since I went with Sandy Bridge-E instead of regular Sandy Bridge, I have no onboard video, and actually, as part of the guide I followed, I didn't end up connecting any of my other hard drives or peripherals until all drivers were installed, and the difference in boot time was negligible. Which is incidentally why I'm having such a hard time pinpointing the problem, because I've never seen it fast boot, so I've been unable to isolate a cause.

I have been keeping up and I just wanted to re-iterate that it sounds a whole lot like hardware to me.

Maybe that MagicAndre1981 guy can tell you which specific thing is being slow, but I am guessing its a thing more than a setting of a thing.

In the past I had a case where an old CD drive was making a computer take 15 minutes to boot up. Replacing the drive brought that time to under a minute even on a regular 7200 RPM hard drive with a processor and motherboard that were average at best.

It sounds a whole lot like that sort of thing is happening here.

As if a device is being polled before it is ready and the re-polling doesn't happen till 20 seconds later, or something like that.

 

[bikeracer4487]

I have been keeping up and I just wanted to re-iterate that it sounds a whole lot like hardware to me.

Maybe that MagicAndre1981 guy can tell you which specific thing is being slow, but I am guessing its a thing more than a setting of a thing.

In the past I had a case where an old CD drive was making a computer take 15 minutes to boot up. Replacing the drive brought that time to under a minute even on a regular 7200 RPM hard drive with a processor and motherboard that were average at best.

It sounds a whole lot like that sort of thing is happening here.

As if a device is being polled before it is ready and the re-polling doesn't happen till 20 seconds later, or something like that.

Yeah, I had a similar feeling, but for the first reboot or two after the fresh installation, I didn't have any other SATA drives or USB devices other than the system drive, a mouse, and a keyboard connected.

 

[bikeracer4487]

Well, I ran the trace boot and posted it in MagicAndre's thread. I don't really know how to interpret it, but if anyone else wants to take a look, I've posted the results here: http://pastebin.com/EPZcvRgF as well as in the MagicAndre thread. Fingers crossed...