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UV filter/protector glass, circular polarizer, etc.

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Anonymous
March 10, 2005 1:23:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Hey all,
OK, I ordered the D70, supposed to be here Monday. I spent 4 days buried in
research torn between the new Rebel and the D70; ended up with D70. Wish the
new Rebel was already in stores to touch it, but couldn't wait.

Anyway, here's the question: What do you all, who are vastly more knowledgeable
and experienced than myself think about having one of the UV filters on the
front of the lens, and just leaving it on there. I have always had one on all
of my cameras, including my C8080 now. I figure much cheaper to replace that
than lens repair or replacement...
But in the case of the D70 and its leap in performance, do the filters have a
downside? ALSO does the quality of that little piece of glass matter much?

Secondly, do you guys/gals have an opinion about using circular polarizers? Do
they work? Does the quality there matter a whole lot?

Thanks a ton!

Tim
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 2:54:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <Jv_Xd.26189$Sn6.13636@lakeread03>,
"Destin_FL" <mounttimmy@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hey all,
> OK, I ordered the D70, supposed to be here Monday. I spent 4 days buried in
> research torn between the new Rebel and the D70; ended up with D70. Wish the
> new Rebel was already in stores to touch it, but couldn't wait.
>
> Anyway, here's the question: What do you all, who are vastly more
> knowledgeable
> and experienced than myself think about having one of the UV filters on the
> front of the lens, and just leaving it on there. I have always had one on
> all
> of my cameras, including my C8080 now. I figure much cheaper to replace that
> than lens repair or replacement...
> But in the case of the D70 and its leap in performance, do the filters have a
> downside? "

Not if you use good ones.

> ALSO does the quality of that little piece of glass matter much?
>
Yes, if you want as little effect as possible on resolution, contrast,
color saturation, etc.

> Secondly, do you guys/gals have an opinion about using circular polarizers?
> Do
> they work?

Of course they do. Go shoot Choctawhatchee Bay without and without one
and it is obvious how well they work.

>Does the quality there matter a whole lot?

Again, yes

From a former resident of Niceville and Valpariso

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 7:32:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

>Nobody has said this (probably because it's obvious)
>but you *must* use a CPL rather than a PL if you want to
>avoid problems with the AF and more importantly, metering.

True, but this is dependent on the camera. Many cameras do not use
systems that are affected by linear polarisation. Usually your camera
manual will tell you if your camera needs a circular. Linears are much
cheaper..
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 7:46:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 10:23:08 -0600, "Destin_FL" <mounttimmy@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Hey all,
>OK, I ordered the D70, supposed to be here Monday. I spent 4 days buried in
>research torn between the new Rebel and the D70; ended up with D70. Wish the
>new Rebel was already in stores to touch it, but couldn't wait.
>
>Anyway, here's the question: What do you all, who are vastly more knowledgeable
>and experienced than myself think about having one of the UV filters on the
>front of the lens, and just leaving it on there. I have always had one on all
>of my cameras, including my C8080 now. I figure much cheaper to replace that
>than lens repair or replacement...
>But in the case of the D70 and its leap in performance, do the filters have a
>downside? ALSO does the quality of that little piece of glass matter much?
>
>Secondly, do you guys/gals have an opinion about using circular polarizers? Do
>they work? Does the quality there matter a whole lot?

You'll love the D70. Don't waste any shots - switch it to RAW+B on day
1 and leave it there.

Circular Polarizers (CPLs) work. Do buy a good one.

Do you need a UV? - Well, how many times has it saved your bacon in
the past - only you can answer that. That insurance costs money and
image quality.

Quality of glass is a big deal. If you *must* use a UV filter, make
sure it's multi-coated, and always remove it when using the CPL. These
days I only use the UV in dusty/risky situations, preferring the lens
hood for protection. Lens hood only comes off when using the CPL - not
for quality reasons, it's just fiddly to move the filter with the hood
on.

A cheap UV can introduce flair, unwanted reflections, slight color
shift and loss of resolution. Hold one up to the light, you can see
the problem with your own eyes. All filters cut down the light to some
degree and introduce the risk of vignetting at wide angles.

Disadvantage to not using a UV is a more frequent cleaning cycle for
the front element of the lens, I try to avoid doing this in the field
preferring to take my time at home, taking care not to damage
anything.

In my past experience of keeping a UV on always, the *only* time I
have damaged the lens was removing the filter for cleaning - I dropped
it onto the front element and it scratched off some of the
non-reflective coating. This had no noticeable optical effect, but
damn annoying. Now I invert the lens so the filter drops into my hand.
For this reason, I'd prefer a bayonet fitting for filters.

--
Owamanga!
http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 9:25:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Destin_FL wrote:
> Hey all,
> OK, I ordered the D70, supposed to be here Monday. I spent 4 days
> buried in research torn between the new Rebel and the D70; ended up
> with D70. Wish the new Rebel was already in stores to touch it, but
> couldn't wait.
>
> Anyway, here's the question: What do you all, who are vastly more
> knowledgeable and experienced than myself think about having one of
> the UV filters on the front of the lens, and just leaving it on
> there. I have always had one on all of my cameras, including my
> C8080 now. I figure much cheaper to replace that than lens repair or
> replacement...
> But in the case of the D70 and its leap in performance, do the
> filters have a downside? ALSO does the quality of that little piece
> of glass matter much?
>
> Secondly, do you guys/gals have an opinion about using circular
> polarizers? Do they work? Does the quality there matter a whole lot?
>
> Thanks a ton!
>
> Tim

First, the polarizers. Yes they work. The polarizing part is much the
same on all such lenses. There is a slight difference between liner and
circular, but for 99.7% of the time you can use a circular anywhere you can
use a liner, and likely something less that 50% the other way. Note, there
are a few (less than 1%) where you may want a liner over a circular. for
some reason other than price.

I guess I should ask what do you mean by "work" They filter out light
based on the angle and the polarization of the light. You adjust the filter
for the direction you want. They can often (but not always) reduce
reflections and darken parts of the sky.


Skylight, Haze and UV filters are much the same. They both block UV
light. You can't see UV light, but most films can. Those films see it as
blue or blue grey. There is no rule as to exactly what a UV or Skylight
filter is so different manufacturers often have different ideas. They
differ in exactly where they cut off the light and how smoothly they cut off
the light. Different films react differently so that complicates things
even more.

You can say in general that Skylight filters are a little stronger and
often will "warm" the colors because they generally cut off a little of the
blue light. Some manufacturers offer a number of different such filters of
different ?strengths? (higher of lower cut off points). The best part of
this is they all do about the same thing and they generally do their thing
best when needed most. That is if there is a lot of UV light they get ride
of it and if there is little, they don't do much.

In short, for the most part it does not make much difference in real life.

Most people don't buy, or should I say, most people are sold UV filters not
to correct light problems, but to "Protect Your Expensive Lens." Keep in
mind that for many years the guy behind the counter (I was one of them) may
have made more on the filter, than he made on the lens! His incentive was
to make money and sell you something. Fear of damage is a good sales tool.
Sort of like the paint protection package they will offer you on a new car.

In real life, with a few exceptions like a windy sandy beach or a
photographer who over-cleans his lenses, few photographers need the
protection of a filter. But then again, even a good one does not cost all
that much* and they are easy to use. The down side is they will very
slightly reduce sharpness and very slightly increase flare. It is a wash,
little gain and little loss.

Most of the time you would get better protection with a good lens shade and
it would be likely to reduce flare, but they are more difficult to use.

So if you want one and if you like warmer colored photos get a skylight, if
you like less warm photos go for a UV or Haze.

* On of the tricks of selling add ones like filters is to have the price low
enough that the buyer will say, even if it does not work I did not speed
that much on it. Which is why you will not often find the sales person
trying to sell you a B&W brand filter that is going to cost a few additional
$$$ but cause less image problems.

Given the real protection offered (on a small percentage of lenses will
suffer any damage to a lens preventable by a UV filter and the fact that the
UV filter is not free, especially if you buy a good one (a good UV for a
typical wide angle lens can cost of the $100 US range a lot more difference
than the $10 you suggest) the value factor is likely to be negative. In
addition the lose of optical ability of a lens which does suffer damage that
might have been prevented by a UV filter is generally very small.

What may well be worth the cost to most photographers is the feeling of
security, which is one of the real values of any insurance.

My training is in economics and accounting and I tend to go overboard on
the measurable facts. I also see that many people don't understand or
properly measure those economic facts.


Please note that this author is not the same Joseph Meehan who is a
professional author of Photograph materials.


--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 10:08:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 18:25:04 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
<sligojoe_Spamno@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Secondly, do you guys/gals have an opinion about using circular
>> polarizers? Do they work? Does the quality there matter a whole lot?
>
> First, the polarizers. Yes they work. The polarizing part is much the
>same on all such lenses. There is a slight difference between liner and
>circular, but for 99.7% of the time you can use a circular anywhere you can
>use a liner, and likely something less that 50% the other way. Note, there
>are a few (less than 1%) where you may want a liner over a circular. for
>some reason other than price.

Nobody has said this (probably because it's obvious) but you *must*
use a CPL rather than a PL if you want to avoid problems with the AF
and more importantly, metering.

--
Owamanga!
http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 10:08:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Wow... incredible, great, superb, USEFUL answers!!
Thanks to each of you soooooooo much for the help. I'm sure I will have more
questions after Monday when the D70 arrives.

Tim
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 11:01:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 13:53:13 -0600, "Destin_FL" <mounttimmy@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Wow... incredible, great, superb, USEFUL answers!!
>Thanks to each of you soooooooo much for the help. I'm sure I will have more
>questions after Monday when the D70 arrives.

Here's what you need to do when you get it:

Set the clock\date.
Turn on the extended custom menu. (Spanner menu, 'CSM menu to
detailed')
Turn off CSM-1 (Annoying bleeps)
Turn on CSM-8 (Grid display)
CSM-24 (Self timer) set to 2secs until your IR remote arrives. ;-)
Mode to RAW+B.

Start shooting.

--
Owamanga!
http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 11:01:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Sweet! Man, I can't wait! I have gone through 5 cameras in the past 18 months,
starting with a little Fuji 2MP, then moving up through stuff to my current
C8080. So I figured it was time to take the last leap to SLR.

I'll follow your advice immediately upon its arrival~!!!

Tim
___________________

Here's what you need to do when you get it:

Set the clock\date.
Turn on the extended custom menu. (Spanner menu, 'CSM menu to
detailed')
Turn off CSM-1 (Annoying bleeps)
Turn on CSM-8 (Grid display)
CSM-24 (Self timer) set to 2secs until your IR remote arrives. ;-)
Mode to RAW+B.

Start shooting.

--
Owamanga!
http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 11:01:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Destin_FL" <mounttimmy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Ay2Yd.26199$Sn6.12821@lakeread03...
> Sweet! Man, I can't wait! I have gone through 5 cameras in the past 18
> months,
> starting with a little Fuji 2MP, then moving up through stuff to my
> current
> C8080. So I figured it was time to take the last leap to SLR.
>
> I'll follow your advice immediately upon its arrival~!!!
>
> Tim
> ___________________

Nikon makes a filter kit, which ain't cheap, that has (I think) a clear
protective filter, a polarizing filter and a neutral density filter. Also,
most DSLR's tend to expose on the dark side. This is so the highlights
don't wash out, leaving many new owners disappointed with images. There are
lots of Web sites with lots of tips on how to setup your new D70, and how to
"process" images you get from your new camera using software. You can also
download tonal "curves" directly into the camera, which is a pretty cool way
of modifying your images as you take them.

I just got a D70. It's extremely full featured and you should have a lot of
fun with it. While you are waiting I'm pretty sure you can download the
manual in PDF format at the Nikon site. Also, Thom Hogan has a book in CD
format called "The Complete Guide to the Nikon D70" which is an excellent
reference. www.bythom.com

I'm sure we'll see you around here when you get it.
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 2:28:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"5 cameras in the past 18 months"

then another 5 in 18 months. :-) i see a used hubble space telescope
somewhere in your future...
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 11:24:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I know.... there's nothing worse than getting bitten by this frappin' camera
bug!

T


then another 5 in 18 months. :-) i see a used hubble space telescope
somewhere in your future...
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 8:51:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

chrlz@go.com wrote:
>>Nobody has said this (probably because it's obvious)
>>but you *must* use a CPL rather than a PL if you want to
>>avoid problems with the AF and more importantly, metering.

> True, but this is dependent on the camera. Many cameras do not use
> systems that are affected by linear polarisation.

This is rec.photo.digital. Digital SLRs definitely do, for the
focussing and the anti-aliasing filter.

Andrew.
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 8:43:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I'd never pick up my D-70 without a UV....Not sure what the price is
now..But I carry a 4 piece Nikon filter set....You not only...need the
CPL/but ND as well......At least ND-4...... Filters..many feel are not
needed..I guess its..."I can do all that in PS." Simply not true.... I
also...carry...28 Square filters-use a 52MM adapter on my 5700....You can
make a rather drab shoot....Into...a sure sell....The Rebel is nice...But
for me..the D-70...Does what I ask...I'd rather wait...at least a year
before I consider a new buy...When they pump up the MP....In that
Olympus....I'll go for it...Its a great landscape camera...
"Destin_FL" <mounttimmy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Jv_Xd.26189$Sn6.13636@lakeread03...
> Hey all,
> OK, I ordered the D70, supposed to be here Monday. I spent 4 days buried
> in
> research torn between the new Rebel and the D70; ended up with D70. Wish
> the
> new Rebel was already in stores to touch it, but couldn't wait.
>
> Anyway, here's the question: What do you all, who are vastly more
> knowledgeable
> and experienced than myself think about having one of the UV filters on
> the
> front of the lens, and just leaving it on there. I have always had one on
> all
> of my cameras, including my C8080 now. I figure much cheaper to replace
> that
> than lens repair or replacement...
> But in the case of the D70 and its leap in performance, do the filters
> have a
> downside? ALSO does the quality of that little piece of glass matter
> much?
>
> Secondly, do you guys/gals have an opinion about using circular
> polarizers? Do
> they work? Does the quality there matter a whole lot?
>
> Thanks a ton!
>
> Tim
>
>
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 8:46:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

You also should always remember.....Direct sunlight can most
certainly...damage a sensor!
"Destin_FL" <mounttimmy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Jv_Xd.26189$Sn6.13636@lakeread03...
> Hey all,
> OK, I ordered the D70, supposed to be here Monday. I spent 4 days buried
> in
> research torn between the new Rebel and the D70; ended up with D70. Wish
> the
> new Rebel was already in stores to touch it, but couldn't wait.
>
> Anyway, here's the question: What do you all, who are vastly more
> knowledgeable
> and experienced than myself think about having one of the UV filters on
> the
> front of the lens, and just leaving it on there. I have always had one on
> all
> of my cameras, including my C8080 now. I figure much cheaper to replace
> that
> than lens repair or replacement...
> But in the case of the D70 and its leap in performance, do the filters
> have a
> downside? ALSO does the quality of that little piece of glass matter
> much?
>
> Secondly, do you guys/gals have an opinion about using circular
> polarizers? Do
> they work? Does the quality there matter a whole lot?
>
> Thanks a ton!
>
> Tim
>
>
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 1:07:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Joseph Meehan <sligojoe_Spamno@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> Secondly, do you guys/gals have an opinion about using circular
>> polarizers? Do they work? Does the quality there matter a whole lot?
....
> I guess I should ask what do you mean by "work" They filter out light
>based on the angle and the polarization of the light. You adjust the filter
>for the direction you want. They can often (but not always) reduce
>reflections and darken parts of the sky.

They also make for about a stop less light, which you might find
annoying on the 18-70 lens if you're already down to f4.5. Then
again, it'll generally be most useful under bright conditions, so that
effect can also help as a "neutral density" to bring down exposure.


--
Ken Tough
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 1:14:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Owamanga <owamanga@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Mode to RAW+B.
>
>Start shooting.

You'll need to install the Nikon software (or Photoshop) to use the
RAW though. I do agree, it makes a hell of a lot of difference.

I find it's not just the technical image quality that's better, but
given the nature of digital there are that many more variables you
have to adjust to the scene. I am used to just shooting "A" mode
on colour film, and thinking DOF with my eye on the shutter speed
depending on the shot I want to compose. Now, with JPG, I also have
to think about contrast enhancement +/-, saturation, white balance,
highlights/EV, ISO [a bonus, though it's easy to forget you've
boosted it], and even compression quality. Which doesn't leave a
lot of time to think about image composition.

By switching to RAW, you can at least forget the white balance,
contrast & saturation, and just concentrate on composition and
exposure, and leave the adjustments for later when you aren't in
danger of actually missing the shot.

--
Ken Tough
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 1:16:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Owamanga <owamanga@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Sod's law also dictates that some kind of amazing photo opportunity
>will arise during this weekend, because sods law is like that and is
>all powerful.

Though Dos's law says that if you had received it on the weekend,
you would have spilled coffee on it an hour after receiving it,
and having not received it you won't ever realise how lucky you were.

--
Ken Tough
!