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Taking Classy Cameras to Mainland China

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Anonymous
March 13, 2005 2:52:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon D100,
or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.

The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not about
China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such
items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling them
on the black market.

What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing happening
in China?

--

(Preferably reply to the newsgroup, please. If you reply by Email, I
will sincerely try to receive your message, but it will probably get
buried in spam.)
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 2:52:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Gary Morrison wrote:
> I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
> China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
> could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon D100,
> or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>
> The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not about
> China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such
> items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling them
> on the black market.
>
> What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing happening
> in China?
>
It depends on just how you get there. If you fly in as a part of a
large group, it isn't so likely (they REALLY want our business). If you
travel alone, and enter at a smaller city, you might have a problem.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 2:52:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

leo <someone@somewhere.net> writes:

> Gary Morrison wrote:
>> I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
>> China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything
>> that could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my
>> Nikon D100, or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>> The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not
>> about China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming
>> that such items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and
>> selling them on the black market.
>> What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing
>> happening in China?

> My suggest is to pack light. Although I like my DSLR too, I wouldn't
> want to be a slave of the photographs. If I had money, I'd get an 8MP
> with wide angle and anti-shake, like the Nikon's. I wouldn't mind
> carrying a laptop for communication and dumping photos purposes. There
> must be hundreds and thousands of businessmen passing through the
> custom everyday and I doubt they have to worry too much about their
> laptops. 89

Boy, I'd really regret not having taken my cameras on my various big
trips. For me that's most of the point of the trip!
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:D d-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/&gt;
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/&gt;
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/&gt;
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/&gt;
Related resources
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 2:52:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

leo <someone@somewhere.net> writes:

> David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
>> leo <someone@somewhere.net> writes:
>>
>>>Gary Morrison wrote:
>>>
>>>>I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
>>>>China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything
>>>>that could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my
>>>>Nikon D100, or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>>>>The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not
>>>>about China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming
>>>>that such items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and
>>>>selling them on the black market.
>>>>What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing
>>>>happening in China?
>>
>>>My suggest is to pack light. Although I like my DSLR too, I wouldn't
>>>want to be a slave of the photographs. If I had money, I'd get an 8MP
>>>with wide angle and anti-shake, like the Nikon's. I wouldn't mind
>>>carrying a laptop for communication and dumping photos purposes. There
>>>must be hundreds and thousands of businessmen passing through the
>>>custom everyday and I doubt they have to worry too much about their
>>>laptops. 89
>> Boy, I'd really regret not having taken my cameras on my various big
>> trips. For me that's most of the point of the trip!
>
>
> Then you should not be lazy and bring your full gears. I think the
> light weight Rebel XT (or 20D) with 17-85 IS lens would do fine. Do
> one need ef-s 10-22 for the great wall? ;) 

Actually, yes, I'd expect to. It's always been travel that's pushed
me into wider lenses.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:D d-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/&gt;
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/&gt;
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/&gt;
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/&gt;
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 3:26:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Gary Morrison" <mr88cet@texas.net> wrote in message
news:iQVYd.12789$U_4.12756@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
> China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
> could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon D100,
> or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>
> The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not about
> China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such
> items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling them
> on the black market.
>
> What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing happening
> in China?
>
> --
>
> (Preferably reply to the newsgroup, please. If you reply by Email, I
> will sincerely try to receive your message, but it will probably get
> buried in spam.)

Take some crack to bribe them?
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 4:45:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Gary Morrison" <mr88cet@texas.net> wrote in message
news:iQVYd.12789$U_4.12756@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
> China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
> could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon D100, or
> a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.

Complete and utter nonsense. I've been to China a number of times and, as it
happens, I'm sitting in my hotel room in Beijing writing this right now on
my laptop. Next to me is my Canon 10D (with extra lenses) and in back of me
is my Sony VX2000 3-ccd prosumer camcorder (with accessories).

It's very early in the morning, here, so my wife is still asleep, and her
designer clothes (which she favors) are hung up in the closet.


>
> The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not about
> China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such items
> are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling them on the
> black market.

Not in China.

>
> What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing happening in
> China?

Less than zero.


>
> --
>
> (Preferably reply to the newsgroup, please. If you reply by Email, I
> will sincerely try to receive your message, but it will probably get
> buried in spam.)
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 4:55:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:3oYYd.50954$au5.20596@fe06.lga...
> Gary Morrison wrote:
>> I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
>> China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
>> could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon D100,
>> or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>>
>> The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not about
>> China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such
>> items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling them
>> on the black market.
>>
>> What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing happening
>> in China?
>>
> It depends on just how you get there. If you fly in as a part of a large
> group, it isn't so likely (they REALLY want our business). If you travel
> alone, and enter at a smaller city, you might have a problem.

Absolutely and completely untrue. Have you ever actually been there?

I've entered through large and small cities, always on my own (or with my
wife), and never with a large group, and never had any trouble. Moreover, I
don't know anyone who HAS actually been there that has had any trouble.


>
>
> --
> Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 5:15:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 11:52:46 GMT, Gary Morrison <mr88cet@texas.net>
wrote:

>I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
>China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
>could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon D100,
>or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>
>The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not about
>China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such
>items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling them
>on the black market.
>
>What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing happening
>in China?

None, I live and worked there several years ago and never had any
problems like that. Just have all you customs paper work so you don't
have any problems when you come back here.


*****************************************************

"Chicago here, Kronshtadt there,
Arrogant governments everywhere,
They all lead to Tienanmen Square (too well we know.)"

"Tienanmen Lessons"
Leslie Fish
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 5:17:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 11:52:46 GMT, Gary Morrison <mr88cet@texas.net>
wrote:

>I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
>China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
>could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon D100,
>or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>
>The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not about
>China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such
>items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling them
>on the black market.
>
>What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing happening
>in China?
as most of em are made out there i wonder if it's a risk?

Please reply to the newsgroup - it's not my email address in the header!!
March 13, 2005 5:19:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Gary Morrison wrote:
> I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
> China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
> could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon D100,
> or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>
> The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not about
> China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such
> items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling them
> on the black market.
>
> What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing happening
> in China?
>


My suggest is to pack light. Although I like my DSLR too, I wouldn't
want to be a slave of the photographs. If I had money, I'd get an 8MP
with wide angle and anti-shake, like the Nikon's. I wouldn't mind
carrying a laptop for communication and dumping photos purposes. There
must be hundreds and thousands of businessmen passing through the custom
everyday and I doubt they have to worry too much about their laptops. 89
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 5:19:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

leo wrote:
> Gary Morrison wrote:
>
>> I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
>> China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
>> could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon
>> D100, or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>>
>> The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not
>> about China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that
>> such items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and
>> selling them on the black market.
>>
>> What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing
>> happening in China?
>>
>
>
> My suggest is to pack light. Although I like my DSLR too, I wouldn't
> want to be a slave of the photographs. If I had money, I'd get an 8MP
> with wide angle and anti-shake, like the Nikon's. I wouldn't mind
> carrying a laptop for communication and dumping photos purposes. There
> must be hundreds and thousands of businessmen passing through the custom
> everyday and I doubt they have to worry too much about their laptops. 89

One may find his internet access a bit less 'general' there than he is
used to, however. China makes severe policy restrictions on internet use.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 5:19:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:XqYYd.50958$Rx5.6615@fe06.lga...
> leo wrote:
>> Gary Morrison wrote:
>>
>>> I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
>>> China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
>>> could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon D100,
>>> or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>>>
>>> The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not about
>>> China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such
>>> items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling them
>>> on the black market.
>>>
>>> What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing happening
>>> in China?
>>>
>>
>>
>> My suggest is to pack light. Although I like my DSLR too, I wouldn't want
>> to be a slave of the photographs. If I had money, I'd get an 8MP with
>> wide angle and anti-shake, like the Nikon's. I wouldn't mind carrying a
>> laptop for communication and dumping photos purposes. There must be
>> hundreds and thousands of businessmen passing through the custom everyday
>> and I doubt they have to worry too much about their laptops. 89
>
> One may find his internet access a bit less 'general' there than he is
> used to, however. China makes severe policy restrictions on internet use.

I wouldn't call them "severe." You'll have to deal with the equivalent of a
proxy server that blocks access to some sites (the only one I've found so
far has been, oddly enough, Google Groups). I find I also can do vpn, vnc,
ping or tracert. However, everything else works, including email to and
from all of my email accounts and, of course, Usenet, which is how I'm
responding to this now.


>
>
> --
> Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 5:31:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

> as most of em are made out there i wonder if it's a risk?

(More likely Japan, I suppose, but no matter...)

--

(Preferably reply to the newsgroup, please. If you reply by Email, I
will sincerely try to receive your message, but it will probably get
buried in spam.)
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 5:43:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Thanks for the replies.

I guess a related question would be what the chances are of "street
urchins" stealing cameras, or maids in hotels stealing laptops while
you're away? That sort of thing certainly does happen in the US, and
probably pretty much everywhere in varying amounts.

My uneducated guess would be that crime rates as a whole are lower in
China than in the US, but I haven't seen any statistics either way.

Gary Morrison wrote:

> I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
> China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
> could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon D100,
> or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>
> The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not about
> China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such
> items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling them
> on the black market.
>
> What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing happening
> in China?

--

(Preferably reply to the newsgroup, please. If you reply by Email, I
will sincerely try to receive your message, but it will probably get
buried in spam.)
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 5:43:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Gary Morrison wrote:
> Thanks for the replies.
>
> I guess a related question would be what the chances are of "street
> urchins" stealing cameras, or maids in hotels stealing laptops while
> you're away? That sort of thing certainly does happen in the US, and
> probably pretty much everywhere in varying amounts.
>
> My uneducated guess would be that crime rates as a whole are lower in
> China than in the US, but I haven't seen any statistics either way.
>
> Gary Morrison wrote:
>
>> I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
>> China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
>> could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon
>> D100, or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>>
>> The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not
>> about China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that
>> such items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and
>> selling them on the black market.
>>
>> What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing
>> happening in China?
>
>

The tourist trade is VERY important to China. There have been cases of
what you mention, but when caught, the thieves won't repeat their
crimes, they are executed!


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 5:43:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Gary Morrison" <mr88cet@texas.net> wrote in message
news:YjYYd.12808$U_4.9643@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> Thanks for the replies.
>
> I guess a related question would be what the chances are of "street
> urchins" stealing cameras,

Less than in Europe. The police in China are very strict about street
crime.

> or maids in hotels stealing laptops while you're away?

I don't know anywhere in the world where that is a significant risk. I've
traveled throughout Europe and Asia, parts of Africa and India, and have
never encountered any significant room-theft problem, at least no more
significant than anywhere in the US.

> That sort of thing certainly does happen in the US, and probably pretty
> much everywhere in varying amounts.

Less so in China, as the punishment for petty crime is far more severe.

>
> My uneducated guess would be that crime rates as a whole are lower in
> China than in the US, but I haven't seen any statistics either way.

Good guess! You're right. Since privitization of industry, crime rates
have increased somewhat in China, in lockstep with unemployment. However,
street crime simply isn't much of an issue.

>
> Gary Morrison wrote:
>
>> I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
>> China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
>> could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon D100,
>> or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>>
>> The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not about
>> China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such
>> items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling them
>> on the black market.
>>
>> What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing happening
>> in China?
>
> --
>
> (Preferably reply to the newsgroup, please. If you reply by Email, I
> will sincerely try to receive your message, but it will probably get
> buried in spam.)
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 5:49:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

>>My suggest is to pack light. Although I like my DSLR too, I wouldn't
>>want to be a slave of the photographs. ...
> Boy, I'd really regret not having taken my cameras on my various big
> trips. For me that's most of the point of the trip!

I can certainly understand both points of view: On the one hand, you
sure as heck don't want to miss an exceptional photographic opportunity
like that. On the other hand though, having a camera in front of your
face all the time can tend to cut down on the "being there" experience
of it all.

--

(Preferably reply to the newsgroup, please. If you reply by Email, I
will sincerely try to receive your message, but it will probably get
buried in spam.)
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 5:49:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Gary Morrison" <mr88cet@texas.net> wrote in message
news:aqYYd.12810$U_4.4548@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>>>My suggest is to pack light. Although I like my DSLR too, I wouldn't
>>>want to be a slave of the photographs. ...
>> Boy, I'd really regret not having taken my cameras on my various big
>> trips. For me that's most of the point of the trip!
>
> I can certainly understand both points of view: On the one hand, you sure
> as heck don't want to miss an exceptional photographic opportunity like
> that. On the other hand though, having a camera in front of your face all
> the time can tend to cut down on the "being there" experience of it all.

I've never understood this point of view. I travel with both a digital SLR
and a good, prosumer camcorder. The DSLR takes little time to use -- see a
picture, grab it. I've gotten very good at "shooting from the hip" with the
camcorder. I travel internationally at least twice a year, shoot video and
stills all the time, and never feel like I'm "seeing the world through a
viewfinder." What I do have, however, are really good videos that document
my travels, as well as some nice 13 x 19 prints to hang in my office and
remind me of why I go to work in the first place.


>
> --
>
> (Preferably reply to the newsgroup, please. If you reply by Email, I
> will sincerely try to receive your message, but it will probably get
> buried in spam.)
March 13, 2005 5:54:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> leo <someone@somewhere.net> writes:
>
>
>>Gary Morrison wrote:
>>
>>>I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
>>>China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything
>>>that could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my
>>>Nikon D100, or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>>>The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not
>>>about China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming
>>>that such items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and
>>>selling them on the black market.
>>>What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing
>>>happening in China?
>
>
>>My suggest is to pack light. Although I like my DSLR too, I wouldn't
>>want to be a slave of the photographs. If I had money, I'd get an 8MP
>>with wide angle and anti-shake, like the Nikon's. I wouldn't mind
>>carrying a laptop for communication and dumping photos purposes. There
>>must be hundreds and thousands of businessmen passing through the
>>custom everyday and I doubt they have to worry too much about their
>>laptops. 89
>
>
> Boy, I'd really regret not having taken my cameras on my various big
> trips. For me that's most of the point of the trip!


Then you should not be lazy and bring your full gears. I think the light
weight Rebel XT (or 20D) with 17-85 IS lens would do fine. Do one need
ef-s 10-22 for the great wall? ;) 
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 7:02:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <iQVYd.12789$U_4.12756@fe2.texas.rr.com>, Gary Morrison
says...
> I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
> China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
> could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon D100,
> or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>
> The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not about
> China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such
> items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling them
> on the black market.
>
> What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing happening
> in China?

Don't worry - travelled with an Olympus 8080, a subnotebook and other
equipment (Xs Drive, external flash, external DVD burner, PDA, mobile
phone) to China last December and experienced no problems at all.

They even scanned my shoes and asked me to open a bottle of water to
make sure that it contained no explosives (!), but at all checkpoints
and airport security gates they didn't care at all about my photography
and electronics stuff. They didn't even ask me to switch on the
subnotebook, which normally is the case at European airports.

All I had to do at the entry in Shenzen was to sign a form declaring
that I had no SARS. See the travelogue here:
http://www.molon.de/galleries/China/Travelogue2004.html
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
Olympus 8080 resource - http://myolympus.org/8080/
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 7:06:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Why not go to japan instead which certainly is more civilized?

--
Tzortzakakis Dimitri?s
major in electrical engineering, freelance electrician
FH von Iraklion-Kreta, freiberuflicher Elektriker
dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr
? "Gary Morrison" <mr88cet@texas.net> ?????? ??? ??????
news:iQVYd.12789$U_4.12756@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
> China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
> could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon D100,
> or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>
> The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not about
> China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such
> items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling them
> on the black market.
>
> What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing happening
> in China?
>
> --
>
> (Preferably reply to the newsgroup, please. If you reply by Email, I
> will sincerely try to receive your message, but it will probably get
> buried in spam.)
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 7:06:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 16:06:08 +0200, "Dimitrios Tzortzakakis"
<use@address.below> wrote:

>Why not go to japan instead which certainly is more civilized?

And China's not? I found when living and working in the Asia, China
to be a much more friendly and out going place than Japan. The
Japanese will always make sure you know your place as a gaijin.


*****************************************************

"Chicago here, Kronshtadt there,
Arrogant governments everywhere,
They all lead to Tienanmen Square (too well we know.)"

"Tienanmen Lessons"
Leslie Fish
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 7:06:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Dimitrios Tzortzakakis" <use@address.below> wrote in message
news:D 11hj9$dtf$1@usenet.otenet.gr...
> Why not go to japan instead which certainly is more civilized?

I won't raise the still-extant issues between China and Japan, but a comment
like this, clearly based on ignorance and prejudice, is of no use to anyone.

You don't know what you're talking about, so you'd be far better not talking
at all.


>
> --
> Tzortzakakis Dimitri?s
> major in electrical engineering, freelance electrician
> FH von Iraklion-Kreta, freiberuflicher Elektriker
> dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr
> ? "Gary Morrison" <mr88cet@texas.net> ?????? ??? ??????
> news:iQVYd.12789$U_4.12756@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>> I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
>> China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
>> could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon D100,
>> or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>>
>> The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not about
>> China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such
>> items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling them
>> on the black market.
>>
>> What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing happening
>> in China?
>>
>> --
>>
>> (Preferably reply to the newsgroup, please. If you reply by Email, I
>> will sincerely try to receive your message, but it will probably get
>> buried in spam.)
>
>
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 7:06:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

John A. Stovall wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 16:06:08 +0200, "Dimitrios Tzortzakakis"
> <use@address.below> wrote:
>
>
>>Why not go to japan instead which certainly is more civilized?
>
>
> And China's not? I found when living and working in the Asia, China
> to be a much more friendly and out going place than Japan. The
> Japanese will always make sure you know your place as a gaijin.
>

Why not? You ARE the foreigner there, right? DO you expect to be
treated like family?


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
March 13, 2005 7:06:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

>And China's not?
John:
Don't feed the trolls, just killfile them.


Drifter
"I've been here, I've been there..."
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 7:06:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 08:39:40 -0600, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net>
wrote:

>John A. Stovall wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 16:06:08 +0200, "Dimitrios Tzortzakakis"
>> <use@address.below> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Why not go to japan instead which certainly is more civilized?
>>
>>
>> And China's not? I found when living and working in the Asia, China
>> to be a much more friendly and out going place than Japan. The
>> Japanese will always make sure you know your place as a gaijin.
>>
>
>Why not? You ARE the foreigner there, right? DO you expect to be
>treated like family?

No, I take it you've never been to either place or lived and worked
there. Very different cultural additudes to foreigners between the two
places and yes, I spoke some Japanese. It was evident in both
business and social situations.


********************************************************

"All plants here have thorns, all animals stings or horns
and all men carry weapons"

Lt. Adolph Engelmann
2nd Rgt. Illinois Foot Volunteers
writing of Texas in 1846.
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 7:06:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

> No, I take it you've never been to either place or lived and worked
> there.

A Japanese fellow living here in Texas once told me that a surprisingly
high percentage of Japanese people have somewhat prejudiced attitudes
against foreigners. However, he claimed that that was more true of
their attitudes toward other East-Asian cultures than toward Westerners.

I personally don't have any opinion either way; I'm just quoting.

--

(Preferably reply to the newsgroup, please. If you reply by Email, I
will sincerely try to receive your message, but it will probably get
buried in spam.)
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 7:06:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

John A. Stovall wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 08:39:40 -0600, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>John A. Stovall wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 16:06:08 +0200, "Dimitrios Tzortzakakis"
>>><use@address.below> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Why not go to japan instead which certainly is more civilized?
>>>
>>>
>>>And China's not? I found when living and working in the Asia, China
>>>to be a much more friendly and out going place than Japan. The
>>>Japanese will always make sure you know your place as a gaijin.
>>>
>>
>>Why not? You ARE the foreigner there, right? DO you expect to be
>>treated like family?
>
>
> No, I take it you've never been to either place or lived and worked
> there. Very different cultural additudes to foreigners between the two
> places and yes, I spoke some Japanese. It was evident in both
> business and social situations.
>

Some places are clannish. And it does bear remembering that about 60
years ago we were at war, and we used history's most destructive weapons
on them. And it IS their country.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 7:06:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"John A. Stovall" <johnastovall@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:sck8319nf0j9j79ha9s5t23d3474qch6hq@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 08:39:40 -0600, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net>
> wrote:
>
>>John A. Stovall wrote:
>>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 16:06:08 +0200, "Dimitrios Tzortzakakis"
>>> <use@address.below> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Why not go to japan instead which certainly is more civilized?
>>>
>>>
>>> And China's not? I found when living and working in the Asia, China
>>> to be a much more friendly and out going place than Japan. The
>>> Japanese will always make sure you know your place as a gaijin.
>>>
>>
>>Why not? You ARE the foreigner there, right? DO you expect to be
>>treated like family?
>
> No, I take it you've never been to either place or lived and worked
> there. Very different cultural additudes to foreigners between the two
> places and yes, I spoke some Japanese. It was evident in both
> business and social situations.

I agree with you John, having been to both places (unlike the poster to whom
you're responding). Though I was consistently treated politely and
respectfully in Japan, I always felt the outsider -- very different in China
where the only barrier is the language.


>
>
> ********************************************************
>
> "All plants here have thorns, all animals stings or horns
> and all men carry weapons"
>
> Lt. Adolph Engelmann
> 2nd Rgt. Illinois Foot Volunteers
> writing of Texas in 1846.
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 7:06:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I've had to pay bribes in India when my baggage containing a camera did not
make the same flight and I had to get it the next day but I've had no
problems with carrying an expensive camera whatsoever in entering China. We
flew into Beijing.

"Gary Morrison" <mr88cet@texas.net> wrote in message
news:iQVYd.12789$U_4.12756@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
> China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
> could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon D100, or
> a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>
> The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not about
> China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such items
> are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling them on the
> black market.
>
> What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing happening in
> China?
>
> --
>
> (Preferably reply to the newsgroup, please. If you reply by Email, I
> will sincerely try to receive your message, but it will probably get
> buried in spam.)
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 7:06:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ed Mullikin" <edmull2@cox.net> wrote in message
news:qX1Zd.28160$Sn6.12774@lakeread03...
> I've had to pay bribes in India when my baggage containing a camera did
> not make the same flight and I had to get it the next day but I've had no
> problems with carrying an expensive camera whatsoever in entering China.
> We flew into Beijing.

The obvious point is that you should never pack an expensive camera in
checked luggage, regardless of where you go. For what it's worth, I brought
an expensive digital still camera and camcorder to India as carry-on with no
problems whatsoever (except that my loose batteries, which are banned in the
cabin of aircraft, where confiscated).


>
> "Gary Morrison" <mr88cet@texas.net> wrote in message
> news:iQVYd.12789$U_4.12756@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>> I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
>> China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
>> could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon D100,
>> or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>>
>> The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not about
>> China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such
>> items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling them
>> on the black market.
>>
>> What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing happening
>> in China?
>>
>> --
>>
>> (Preferably reply to the newsgroup, please. If you reply by Email, I
>> will sincerely try to receive your message, but it will probably get
>> buried in spam.)
>
>
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 7:13:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Forgot something! Someone mentioned that they had to open a bottle of water
for them. When I was there a year ago there was an article in the Chinese
paper about a Chinese citizen taking a small "nippy" bottle of liquor on
board. Turns out that he had kerosene or gasoline in it and caused a fire.
They were deliberating then about allowing bottles to come on board. Don't
know what they decided.

"Gary Morrison" <mr88cet@texas.net> wrote in message
news:iQVYd.12789$U_4.12756@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
> China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
> could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon D100, or
> a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>
> The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not about
> China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such items
> are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling them on the
> black market.
>
> What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing happening in
> China?
>
> --
>
> (Preferably reply to the newsgroup, please. If you reply by Email, I
> will sincerely try to receive your message, but it will probably get
> buried in spam.)
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 10:05:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

PTRAVEL wrote:
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:XqYYd.50958$Rx5.6615@fe06.lga...
>
>>leo wrote:
>>
>>>Gary Morrison wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
>>>>China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
>>>>could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon D100,
>>>>or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>>>>
>>>>The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not about
>>>>China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such
>>>>items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling them
>>>>on the black market.
>>>>
>>>>What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing happening
>>>>in China?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>My suggest is to pack light. Although I like my DSLR too, I wouldn't want
>>>to be a slave of the photographs. If I had money, I'd get an 8MP with
>>>wide angle and anti-shake, like the Nikon's. I wouldn't mind carrying a
>>>laptop for communication and dumping photos purposes. There must be
>>>hundreds and thousands of businessmen passing through the custom everyday
>>>and I doubt they have to worry too much about their laptops. 89
>>
>>One may find his internet access a bit less 'general' there than he is
>>used to, however. China makes severe policy restrictions on internet use.
>
>
> I wouldn't call them "severe." You'll have to deal with the equivalent of a
> proxy server that blocks access to some sites (the only one I've found so
> far has been, oddly enough, Google Groups). I find I also can do vpn, vnc,
> ping or tracert. However, everything else works, including email to and
> from all of my email accounts and, of course, Usenet, which is how I'm
> responding to this now.
>
>
>
>>
>>--
>>Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
>
>
>
Yes, severe! Try accessing sites that discuss democracy, and discuss
human rights, or religious sites.
I stand by 'severe'.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 10:05:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:fB5Zd.19759$Hm6.18882@fe07.lga...
> PTRAVEL wrote:
>> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>> news:XqYYd.50958$Rx5.6615@fe06.lga...
>>
>>>leo wrote:
>>>
>>>>Gary Morrison wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
>>>>>China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
>>>>>could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon D100,
>>>>>or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>>>>>
>>>>>The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not about
>>>>>China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such
>>>>>items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling them
>>>>>on the black market.
>>>>>
>>>>>What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing happening
>>>>>in China?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>My suggest is to pack light. Although I like my DSLR too, I wouldn't
>>>>want to be a slave of the photographs. If I had money, I'd get an 8MP
>>>>with wide angle and anti-shake, like the Nikon's. I wouldn't mind
>>>>carrying a laptop for communication and dumping photos purposes. There
>>>>must be hundreds and thousands of businessmen passing through the custom
>>>>everyday and I doubt they have to worry too much about their laptops. 89
>>>
>>>One may find his internet access a bit less 'general' there than he is
>>>used to, however. China makes severe policy restrictions on internet
>>>use.
>>
>>
>> I wouldn't call them "severe." You'll have to deal with the equivalent
>> of a proxy server that blocks access to some sites (the only one I've
>> found so far has been, oddly enough, Google Groups). I find I also can
>> do vpn, vnc, ping or tracert. However, everything else works, including
>> email to and from all of my email accounts and, of course, Usenet, which
>> is how I'm responding to this now.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
>>
>>
>>
> Yes, severe! Try accessing sites that discuss democracy, and discuss
> human rights, or religious sites.
> I stand by 'severe'.

Give me an example of those sites, and I'll try them, as I'm in China right
now. I have no trouble accessing CNN, MSNBC, the New York Times website,
the LA Times website, or the Washington Post. I can even access
www.whitehouse.gov.

All of these discuss democracy and human rights in some detail. As for
religious sites, I wouldn't know where to look because I never frequent
them. Perhaps you can suggest some.

I'm curious, have you ever actually BEEN to China, or are you just one more
poster relying on second-hand information from biased sources?


>
>
> --
> Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 10:05:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Take nothing overseas that you do not want confiscated. This includes
some "south of the border" countries.

And, applies to both cameras and computers.

--
Panta Rei
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 10:05:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"clw" <never@home.org> wrote in message
news:never-1AD836.17345113032005@nntp0.pdx.net...
> Take nothing overseas that you do not want confiscated. This includes
> some "south of the border" countries.
>
> And, applies to both cameras and computers.

Absolute, complete and utter nonsense. My guess is you don't travel much,
if at all.


>
> --
> Panta Rei
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 11:45:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I have been to mainland China three times. Always had my "expensive" digital
camera + PDA to down load my images. Never had any problem.
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 12:27:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <39k6uoF63hn0fU1@individual.net>,
PTRAVEL <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>news:fB5Zd.19759$Hm6.18882@fe07.lga...
>> PTRAVEL wrote:
>>> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>> news:XqYYd.50958$Rx5.6615@fe06.lga...
>>>
>>>>leo wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Gary Morrison wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
>>>>>>China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
>>>>>>could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon D100,
>>>>>>or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not about
>>>>>>China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such
>>>>>>items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling them
>>>>>>on the black market.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing happening
>>>>>>in China?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>My suggest is to pack light. Although I like my DSLR too, I wouldn't
>>>>>want to be a slave of the photographs. If I had money, I'd get an 8MP
>>>>>with wide angle and anti-shake, like the Nikon's. I wouldn't mind
>>>>>carrying a laptop for communication and dumping photos purposes. There
>>>>>must be hundreds and thousands of businessmen passing through the custom
>>>>>everyday and I doubt they have to worry too much about their laptops. 89
>>>>
>>>>One may find his internet access a bit less 'general' there than he is
>>>>used to, however. China makes severe policy restrictions on internet
>>>>use.
>>>
>>>
>>> I wouldn't call them "severe." You'll have to deal with the equivalent
>>> of a proxy server that blocks access to some sites (the only one I've
>>> found so far has been, oddly enough, Google Groups). I find I also can
>>> do vpn, vnc, ping or tracert. However, everything else works, including
>>> email to and from all of my email accounts and, of course, Usenet, which
>>> is how I'm responding to this now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Yes, severe! Try accessing sites that discuss democracy, and discuss
>> human rights, or religious sites.
>> I stand by 'severe'.
>
>Give me an example of those sites, and I'll try them, as I'm in China right
>now. I have no trouble accessing CNN, MSNBC, the New York Times website,
>the LA Times website, or the Washington Post. I can even access
>www.whitehouse.gov.
>
>All of these discuss democracy and human rights in some detail. As for
>religious sites, I wouldn't know where to look because I never frequent
>them. Perhaps you can suggest some.
>

Is it possible that you are in facilities for foreigners that the
Chinese gov't allows open internet access to maintain an illusion of
openness?

Try to google "Falun Gong" and hitting any sites you find. I get 224
hits on "Falun Gong" in news.google.com and 1,050,000 hits on the web
in google.

Here are some articles about recent Chinese censorship efforts.

It's possibe that Ron Nunter, who's post I'm responding to) in China
won't see this post. I'm going to send an inocoious message
to him via email, directly, as a heads-up.

e rphunter@charter.net

Chinese Force Mass Closure Of Net Cafes

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/14/120208&...
99&tid=153&tid=95&tid=1&tid=17&tid=10

http://makeashorterlink.com/?D22421A7A
-------------------------------
China Closes 1,129 Web Sites
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/23/0330248&...
------------------------
China Launches New Search Engine

"With all those nasty pro-democracy websites that Google keeps
turning up, what's a communist country supposed to do? Well, create
their own search engine of course! According to the AP, 'Bill
Clinton on Monday helped launch a new Internet search company
backed by the Chinese government which says its technology uses
artificial intelligence to produce better results than Google Inc.'
Accoona Corp. was one of the Chinese companies that donated an
'undisclosed amount' to the recently opened Clinton Library. Using
the search engine from inside the US doesn't show any noticeable
amount of censorship, but it also doesn't show how it's anywhere
near the level of Google."


http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/23/0330248&...

-------------------------------------

China Blocking Access to Google News Site
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/01/0222254...


>I'm curious, have you ever actually BEEN to China, or are you just one more
>poster relying on second-hand information from biased sources?
>
>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
>
>


--

a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 12:27:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Al Dykes" <adykes@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 12sqi$nul$1@panix5.panix.com...
> In article <39k6uoF63hn0fU1@individual.net>,
> PTRAVEL <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>news:fB5Zd.19759$Hm6.18882@fe07.lga...
>>> PTRAVEL wrote:
>>>> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:XqYYd.50958$Rx5.6615@fe06.lga...
>>>>
>>>>>leo wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Gary Morrison wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
>>>>>>>China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
>>>>>>>could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon
>>>>>>>D100,
>>>>>>>or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not
>>>>>>>about
>>>>>>>China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such
>>>>>>>items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling
>>>>>>>them
>>>>>>>on the black market.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing
>>>>>>>happening
>>>>>>>in China?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>My suggest is to pack light. Although I like my DSLR too, I wouldn't
>>>>>>want to be a slave of the photographs. If I had money, I'd get an 8MP
>>>>>>with wide angle and anti-shake, like the Nikon's. I wouldn't mind
>>>>>>carrying a laptop for communication and dumping photos purposes. There
>>>>>>must be hundreds and thousands of businessmen passing through the
>>>>>>custom
>>>>>>everyday and I doubt they have to worry too much about their laptops.
>>>>>>89
>>>>>
>>>>>One may find his internet access a bit less 'general' there than he is
>>>>>used to, however. China makes severe policy restrictions on internet
>>>>>use.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wouldn't call them "severe." You'll have to deal with the equivalent
>>>> of a proxy server that blocks access to some sites (the only one I've
>>>> found so far has been, oddly enough, Google Groups). I find I also can
>>>> do vpn, vnc, ping or tracert. However, everything else works,
>>>> including
>>>> email to and from all of my email accounts and, of course, Usenet,
>>>> which
>>>> is how I'm responding to this now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Yes, severe! Try accessing sites that discuss democracy, and discuss
>>> human rights, or religious sites.
>>> I stand by 'severe'.
>>
>>Give me an example of those sites, and I'll try them, as I'm in China
>>right
>>now. I have no trouble accessing CNN, MSNBC, the New York Times website,
>>the LA Times website, or the Washington Post. I can even access
>>www.whitehouse.gov.
>>
>>All of these discuss democracy and human rights in some detail. As for
>>religious sites, I wouldn't know where to look because I never frequent
>>them. Perhaps you can suggest some.
>>
>
> Is it possible that you are in facilities for foreigners that the
> Chinese gov't allows open internet access to maintain an illusion of
> openness?

Okay, you're not tracking, here. The OP, i.e. a foreign visitor, asked
whether he could bring a laptop to China. I said, yes, but there are some
internet restrictions. Someone else characterized them as severe and
claimed you couldn't access sites that talked about democracy, human rights
or religion. I said that was nonsense, as I had just accessed CNN, MSNBC,
the New York Times, whitehouse.gov, etc.

Obviously, whatever access I'm getting is what is provided to foreigners. I
don't live here, so I don't know what's available to Chinese citizens, but
that isn't the point.


>
> Try to google "Falun Gong" and hitting any sites you find. I get 224
> hits on "Falun Gong" in news.google.com and 1,050,000 hits on the web
> in google.

Falun Gong is not regarded as a religion in China, but as a subversive
organization. Spend time on Al Qaeda websites in the US and you'll attract
the attention of the FBI. What's your point?



> > Here are some articles about recent Chinese censorship efforts.

None of which are relevant to visitors in China or the OP's question. I
would note, though, that slashdot.org isn't quite as reliable and unbiased a
source as, for example, CNN. However, I'm aware of most of what you've
mentioned in your cites below.

>
> It's possibe that Ron Nunter, who's post I'm responding to) in China
> won't see this post. I'm going to send an inocoious message
> to him via email, directly, as a heads-up.
>
> e rphunter@charter.net
>
> Chinese Force Mass Closure Of Net Cafes
>
> http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/14/120208&...
> 99&tid=153&tid=95&tid=1&tid=17&tid=10
>
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?D22421A7A
> -------------------------------
> China Closes 1,129 Web Sites
> http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/23/0330248&...
> ------------------------
> China Launches New Search Engine
>
> "With all those nasty pro-democracy websites that Google keeps
> turning up, what's a communist country supposed to do? Well, create
> their own search engine of course! According to the AP, 'Bill
> Clinton on Monday helped launch a new Internet search company
> backed by the Chinese government which says its technology uses
> artificial intelligence to produce better results than Google Inc.'
> Accoona Corp. was one of the Chinese companies that donated an
> 'undisclosed amount' to the recently opened Clinton Library. Using
> the search engine from inside the US doesn't show any noticeable
> amount of censorship, but it also doesn't show how it's anywhere
> near the level of Google."
>
>
> http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/23/0330248&...
>
> -------------------------------------
>
> China Blocking Access to Google News Site
>
> http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/01/0222254...
>
>
>>I'm curious, have you ever actually BEEN to China, or are you just one
>>more
>>poster relying on second-hand information from biased sources?
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
>
> Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 1:15:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <39kcbkF61nanfU1@individual.net>,
PTRAVEL <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>"Al Dykes" <adykes@panix.com> wrote in message
>news:D 12sqi$nul$1@panix5.panix.com...
>> In article <39k6uoF63hn0fU1@individual.net>,
>> PTRAVEL <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>news:fB5Zd.19759$Hm6.18882@fe07.lga...
>>>> PTRAVEL wrote:
>>>>> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:XqYYd.50958$Rx5.6615@fe06.lga...
>>>>>
>>>>>>leo wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Gary Morrison wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
>>>>>>>>China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
>>>>>>>>could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon
>>>>>>>>D100,
>>>>>>>>or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not
>>>>>>>>about
>>>>>>>>China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such
>>>>>>>>items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling
>>>>>>>>them
>>>>>>>>on the black market.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing
>>>>>>>>happening
>>>>>>>>in China?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>My suggest is to pack light. Although I like my DSLR too, I wouldn't
>>>>>>>want to be a slave of the photographs. If I had money, I'd get an 8MP
>>>>>>>with wide angle and anti-shake, like the Nikon's. I wouldn't mind
>>>>>>>carrying a laptop for communication and dumping photos purposes. There
>>>>>>>must be hundreds and thousands of businessmen passing through the
>>>>>>>custom
>>>>>>>everyday and I doubt they have to worry too much about their laptops.
>>>>>>>89
>>>>>>
>>>>>>One may find his internet access a bit less 'general' there than he is
>>>>>>used to, however. China makes severe policy restrictions on internet
>>>>>>use.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I wouldn't call them "severe." You'll have to deal with the equivalent
>>>>> of a proxy server that blocks access to some sites (the only one I've
>>>>> found so far has been, oddly enough, Google Groups). I find I also can
>>>>> do vpn, vnc, ping or tracert. However, everything else works,
>>>>> including
>>>>> email to and from all of my email accounts and, of course, Usenet,
>>>>> which
>>>>> is how I'm responding to this now.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, severe! Try accessing sites that discuss democracy, and discuss
>>>> human rights, or religious sites.
>>>> I stand by 'severe'.
>>>
>>>Give me an example of those sites, and I'll try them, as I'm in China
>>>right
>>>now. I have no trouble accessing CNN, MSNBC, the New York Times website,
>>>the LA Times website, or the Washington Post. I can even access
>>>www.whitehouse.gov.
>>>
>>>All of these discuss democracy and human rights in some detail. As for
>>>religious sites, I wouldn't know where to look because I never frequent
>>>them. Perhaps you can suggest some.
>>>
>>
>> Is it possible that you are in facilities for foreigners that the
>> Chinese gov't allows open internet access to maintain an illusion of
>> openness?
>
>Okay, you're not tracking, here. The OP, i.e. a foreign visitor, asked
>whether he could bring a laptop to China. I said, yes, but there are some
>internet restrictions. Someone else characterized them as severe and
>claimed you couldn't access sites that talked about democracy, human rights
>or religion. I said that was nonsense, as I had just accessed CNN, MSNBC,
>the New York Times, whitehouse.gov, etc.
>
>Obviously, whatever access I'm getting is what is provided to foreigners. I
>don't live here, so I don't know what's available to Chinese citizens, but
>that isn't the point.
>
>
>>
>> Try to google "Falun Gong" and hitting any sites you find. I get 224
>> hits on "Falun Gong" in news.google.com and 1,050,000 hits on the web
>> in google.
>
>Falun Gong is not regarded as a religion in China, but as a subversive
>organization. Spend time on Al Qaeda websites in the US and you'll attract
>the attention of the FBI. What's your point?
>


Why should I, in in the USA "get the attention of the FBI" for reading
about AQ ? I, in fact, have done a fair amount of googling to chase
down the full text english of OBL's speeches.

I believe that in China a similar activity by a chinese national
to read about Falun Gong would result in a knock on the door.

I'd genuinely like to know if you google for Falun Gong how many hits
you get and can you reach them all. Nothing like an emperical
experiment to settle a discussion.



--

a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 1:15:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Al Dykes" <adykes@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 12vl0$3vo$1@panix5.panix.com...
> In article <39kcbkF61nanfU1@individual.net>,
> PTRAVEL <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>"Al Dykes" <adykes@panix.com> wrote in message
>>news:D 12sqi$nul$1@panix5.panix.com...
>>> In article <39k6uoF63hn0fU1@individual.net>,
>>> PTRAVEL <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:fB5Zd.19759$Hm6.18882@fe07.lga...
>>>>> PTRAVEL wrote:
>>>>>> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:XqYYd.50958$Rx5.6615@fe06.lga...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>leo wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Gary Morrison wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to
>>>>>>>>>(mainland)
>>>>>>>>>China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything
>>>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>>>could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon
>>>>>>>>>D100,
>>>>>>>>>or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not
>>>>>>>>>about
>>>>>>>>>China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that
>>>>>>>>>such
>>>>>>>>>items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling
>>>>>>>>>them
>>>>>>>>>on the black market.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing
>>>>>>>>>happening
>>>>>>>>>in China?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>My suggest is to pack light. Although I like my DSLR too, I wouldn't
>>>>>>>>want to be a slave of the photographs. If I had money, I'd get an
>>>>>>>>8MP
>>>>>>>>with wide angle and anti-shake, like the Nikon's. I wouldn't mind
>>>>>>>>carrying a laptop for communication and dumping photos purposes.
>>>>>>>>There
>>>>>>>>must be hundreds and thousands of businessmen passing through the
>>>>>>>>custom
>>>>>>>>everyday and I doubt they have to worry too much about their
>>>>>>>>laptops.
>>>>>>>>89
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>One may find his internet access a bit less 'general' there than he
>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>used to, however. China makes severe policy restrictions on internet
>>>>>>>use.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wouldn't call them "severe." You'll have to deal with the
>>>>>> equivalent
>>>>>> of a proxy server that blocks access to some sites (the only one I've
>>>>>> found so far has been, oddly enough, Google Groups). I find I also
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> do vpn, vnc, ping or tracert. However, everything else works,
>>>>>> including
>>>>>> email to and from all of my email accounts and, of course, Usenet,
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> is how I'm responding to this now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, severe! Try accessing sites that discuss democracy, and discuss
>>>>> human rights, or religious sites.
>>>>> I stand by 'severe'.
>>>>
>>>>Give me an example of those sites, and I'll try them, as I'm in China
>>>>right
>>>>now. I have no trouble accessing CNN, MSNBC, the New York Times
>>>>website,
>>>>the LA Times website, or the Washington Post. I can even access
>>>>www.whitehouse.gov.
>>>>
>>>>All of these discuss democracy and human rights in some detail. As for
>>>>religious sites, I wouldn't know where to look because I never frequent
>>>>them. Perhaps you can suggest some.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Is it possible that you are in facilities for foreigners that the
>>> Chinese gov't allows open internet access to maintain an illusion of
>>> openness?
>>
>>Okay, you're not tracking, here. The OP, i.e. a foreign visitor, asked
>>whether he could bring a laptop to China. I said, yes, but there are some
>>internet restrictions. Someone else characterized them as severe and
>>claimed you couldn't access sites that talked about democracy, human
>>rights
>>or religion. I said that was nonsense, as I had just accessed CNN, MSNBC,
>>the New York Times, whitehouse.gov, etc.
>>
>>Obviously, whatever access I'm getting is what is provided to foreigners.
>>I
>>don't live here, so I don't know what's available to Chinese citizens, but
>>that isn't the point.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Try to google "Falun Gong" and hitting any sites you find. I get 224
>>> hits on "Falun Gong" in news.google.com and 1,050,000 hits on the web
>>> in google.
>>
>>Falun Gong is not regarded as a religion in China, but as a subversive
>>organization. Spend time on Al Qaeda websites in the US and you'll
>>attract
>>the attention of the FBI. What's your point?
>>
>
>
> Why should I, in in the USA "get the attention of the FBI" for reading
> about AQ ? I, in fact, have done a fair amount of googling to chase
> down the full text english of OBL's speeches.

Because the FBI and CIA monitor that stuff. I'm not defending it. It's
just not a secret.


>
> I believe that in China a similar activity by a chinese national
> to read about Falun Gong would result in a knock on the door.

And I believe that you know very little about China. It's not a question of
what you believe, but what is the reality in China.

>
> I'd genuinely like to know if you google for Falun Gong how many hits
> you get and can you reach them all. Nothing like an emperical
> experiment to settle a discussion.

As best as I can tell, it's blocked, i.e. no response from Google or Yahoo.

What's your point?

>
>
>
> --
>
> a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
>
> Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 2:49:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

PTRAVEL wrote:
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:fB5Zd.19759$Hm6.18882@fe07.lga...
>
>>PTRAVEL wrote:
>>
>>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>news:XqYYd.50958$Rx5.6615@fe06.lga...
>>>
>>>
>>>>leo wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Gary Morrison wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
>>>>>>China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
>>>>>>could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon D100,
>>>>>>or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not about
>>>>>>China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such
>>>>>>items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling them
>>>>>>on the black market.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing happening
>>>>>>in China?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>My suggest is to pack light. Although I like my DSLR too, I wouldn't
>>>>>want to be a slave of the photographs. If I had money, I'd get an 8MP
>>>>>with wide angle and anti-shake, like the Nikon's. I wouldn't mind
>>>>>carrying a laptop for communication and dumping photos purposes. There
>>>>>must be hundreds and thousands of businessmen passing through the custom
>>>>>everyday and I doubt they have to worry too much about their laptops. 89
>>>>
>>>>One may find his internet access a bit less 'general' there than he is
>>>>used to, however. China makes severe policy restrictions on internet
>>>>use.
>>>
>>>
>>>I wouldn't call them "severe." You'll have to deal with the equivalent
>>>of a proxy server that blocks access to some sites (the only one I've
>>>found so far has been, oddly enough, Google Groups). I find I also can
>>>do vpn, vnc, ping or tracert. However, everything else works, including
>>>email to and from all of my email accounts and, of course, Usenet, which
>>>is how I'm responding to this now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Yes, severe! Try accessing sites that discuss democracy, and discuss
>>human rights, or religious sites.
>>I stand by 'severe'.
>
>
> Give me an example of those sites, and I'll try them, as I'm in China right
> now. I have no trouble accessing CNN, MSNBC, the New York Times website,
> the LA Times website, or the Washington Post. I can even access
> www.whitehouse.gov.
>
> All of these discuss democracy and human rights in some detail. As for
> religious sites, I wouldn't know where to look because I never frequent
> them. Perhaps you can suggest some.
>
> I'm curious, have you ever actually BEEN to China, or are you just one more
> poster relying on second-hand information from biased sources?
>
>
>
>>
>>--
>>Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
>
>
>
Never been to China, never intend to go there. As for the information,
it comes from just the news sources you mentioned. Perhaps your access
is somewhat different from that of the average Chinese citizen.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 2:49:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:CD9Zd.1464$3A3.751@fe04.lga...


>> I'm curious, have you ever actually BEEN to China, or are you just one
>> more poster relying on second-hand information from biased sources?
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
>>
>>
>>
> Never been to China, never intend to go there. As for the information, it
> comes from just the news sources you mentioned. Perhaps your access is
> somewhat different from that of the average Chinese citizen.

Nope, it's not. I've been to China about a dozen times over the last 10
years. I wound up marrying a Chinese woman, and I have both clients,
in-laws and acquaintances there. However, my access is exactly the same as
it is for any American -- I buy a plane ticket, get a visa, make a hotel
reservation and go.

I find American news coverage of China to be highly distorted and, usually,
simply misguided. It's a complicated country with a complicated history,
and the kind of oversimplifications which are characteristic of both the
left and right in the US don't accurately portray China and its people at
all.

It's a shame you won't visit. It's an amazing place.


>
>
> --
> Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 2:56:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

PTRAVEL wrote:
> "Al Dykes" <adykes@panix.com> wrote in message
> news:D 12vl0$3vo$1@panix5.panix.com...
>
>>In article <39kcbkF61nanfU1@individual.net>,
>>PTRAVEL <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"Al Dykes" <adykes@panix.com> wrote in message
>>>news:D 12sqi$nul$1@panix5.panix.com...
>>>
>>>>In article <39k6uoF63hn0fU1@individual.net>,
>>>>PTRAVEL <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:fB5Zd.19759$Hm6.18882@fe07.lga...
>>>>>
>>>>>>PTRAVEL wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:XqYYd.50958$Rx5.6615@fe06.lga...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>leo wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Gary Morrison wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to
>>>>>>>>>>(mainland)
>>>>>>>>>>China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything
>>>>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>>>>could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon
>>>>>>>>>>D100,
>>>>>>>>>>or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not
>>>>>>>>>>about
>>>>>>>>>>China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that
>>>>>>>>>>such
>>>>>>>>>>items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling
>>>>>>>>>>them
>>>>>>>>>>on the black market.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing
>>>>>>>>>>happening
>>>>>>>>>>in China?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>My suggest is to pack light. Although I like my DSLR too, I wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>want to be a slave of the photographs. If I had money, I'd get an
>>>>>>>>>8MP
>>>>>>>>>with wide angle and anti-shake, like the Nikon's. I wouldn't mind
>>>>>>>>>carrying a laptop for communication and dumping photos purposes.
>>>>>>>>>There
>>>>>>>>>must be hundreds and thousands of businessmen passing through the
>>>>>>>>>custom
>>>>>>>>>everyday and I doubt they have to worry too much about their
>>>>>>>>>laptops.
>>>>>>>>>89
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>One may find his internet access a bit less 'general' there than he
>>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>>used to, however. China makes severe policy restrictions on internet
>>>>>>>>use.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I wouldn't call them "severe." You'll have to deal with the
>>>>>>>equivalent
>>>>>>>of a proxy server that blocks access to some sites (the only one I've
>>>>>>>found so far has been, oddly enough, Google Groups). I find I also
>>>>>>>can
>>>>>>>do vpn, vnc, ping or tracert. However, everything else works,
>>>>>>>including
>>>>>>>email to and from all of my email accounts and, of course, Usenet,
>>>>>>>which
>>>>>>>is how I'm responding to this now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes, severe! Try accessing sites that discuss democracy, and discuss
>>>>>>human rights, or religious sites.
>>>>>>I stand by 'severe'.
>>>>>
>>>>>Give me an example of those sites, and I'll try them, as I'm in China
>>>>>right
>>>>>now. I have no trouble accessing CNN, MSNBC, the New York Times
>>>>>website,
>>>>>the LA Times website, or the Washington Post. I can even access
>>>>>www.whitehouse.gov.
>>>>>
>>>>>All of these discuss democracy and human rights in some detail. As for
>>>>>religious sites, I wouldn't know where to look because I never frequent
>>>>>them. Perhaps you can suggest some.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Is it possible that you are in facilities for foreigners that the
>>>>Chinese gov't allows open internet access to maintain an illusion of
>>>>openness?
>>>
>>>Okay, you're not tracking, here. The OP, i.e. a foreign visitor, asked
>>>whether he could bring a laptop to China. I said, yes, but there are some
>>>internet restrictions. Someone else characterized them as severe and
>>>claimed you couldn't access sites that talked about democracy, human
>>>rights
>>>or religion. I said that was nonsense, as I had just accessed CNN, MSNBC,
>>>the New York Times, whitehouse.gov, etc.
>>>
>>>Obviously, whatever access I'm getting is what is provided to foreigners.
>>>I
>>>don't live here, so I don't know what's available to Chinese citizens, but
>>>that isn't the point.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Try to google "Falun Gong" and hitting any sites you find. I get 224
>>>>hits on "Falun Gong" in news.google.com and 1,050,000 hits on the web
>>>>in google.
>>>
>>>Falun Gong is not regarded as a religion in China, but as a subversive
>>>organization. Spend time on Al Qaeda websites in the US and you'll
>>>attract
>>>the attention of the FBI. What's your point?
>>>
>>
>>
>>Why should I, in in the USA "get the attention of the FBI" for reading
>>about AQ ? I, in fact, have done a fair amount of googling to chase
>>down the full text english of OBL's speeches.
>
>
> Because the FBI and CIA monitor that stuff. I'm not defending it. It's
> just not a secret.
>
>
>
>>I believe that in China a similar activity by a chinese national
>>to read about Falun Gong would result in a knock on the door.
>
>
> And I believe that you know very little about China. It's not a question of
> what you believe, but what is the reality in China.
>
>
>>I'd genuinely like to know if you google for Falun Gong how many hits
>>you get and can you reach them all. Nothing like an emperical
>>experiment to settle a discussion.
>
>
> As best as I can tell, it's blocked, i.e. no response from Google or Yahoo.
>
> What's your point?
>
>
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
>>
>>Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
>
>
>
I don't think you are capable of seeing the point as your blinders seem
adjusted by someone else. Perhaps that is just as well at this time.
Take care.

Americans abroad would do well to remember that the rules are not the
same in other countries, and a due respect for their laws, customs, and
attitudes, no matter how different, is mandatory if they wish to live
long and prosper.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 2:56:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:wK9Zd.1466$4Z3.925@fe04.lga...


>>>I'd genuinely like to know if you google for Falun Gong how many hits
>>>you get and can you reach them all. Nothing like an emperical
>>>experiment to settle a discussion.
>>
>>
>> As best as I can tell, it's blocked, i.e. no response from Google or
>> Yahoo.
>>
>> What's your point?
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>
>>>a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
>>>
>>>Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
>>
>>
>>
> I don't think you are capable of seeing the point as your blinders seem
> adjusted by someone else.

Hardly. I've just spent enough time in China to get a first-hand picture of
the place.

However, the point remains this: the internet is not "severely restricted"
for visitors, as one poster claimed. In all the times I've been to China
(and each time with my laptop), I've never needed to google falun gong or
anarchist websites. I have needed to check my email, read the websites that
I frequent and keep up with the news. All of that is open.

> Perhaps that is just as well at this time.
> Take care.
>
> Americans abroad would do well to remember that the rules are not the same
> in other countries, and a due respect for their laws, customs, and
> attitudes, no matter how different, is mandatory if they wish to live long
> and prosper.

Very good advice. The "ugly American" is the one who seeks to impose his
values and standards on his foreign hosts.

>
>
> --
> Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
March 14, 2005 3:45:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I made 7 trips to China last year (Shanghai & Beijing) with all my
electronic & digital toys. Never had to even open a bag for anyone in
China. Do take receipts along for re-entry into the US; though I was never
inspected coming back either.

"Gary Morrison" <mr88cet@texas.net> wrote in message
news:iQVYd.12789$U_4.12756@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
> China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
> could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon D100, or
> a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>
> The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not about
> China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such items
> are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling them on the
> black market.
>
> What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing happening in
> China?
>
> --
>
> (Preferably reply to the newsgroup, please. If you reply by Email, I
> will sincerely try to receive your message, but it will probably get
> buried in spam.)
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 4:18:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 13:51:22 -0800, "PTRAVEL"
<ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>news:XqYYd.50958$Rx5.6615@fe06.lga...
>> leo wrote:
>>> Gary Morrison wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
>>>> China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
>>>> could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon D100,
>>>> or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>>>>
>>>> The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not about
>>>> China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such
>>>> items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling them
>>>> on the black market.
>>>>
>>>> What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing happening
>>>> in China?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My suggest is to pack light. Although I like my DSLR too, I wouldn't want
>>> to be a slave of the photographs. If I had money, I'd get an 8MP with
>>> wide angle and anti-shake, like the Nikon's. I wouldn't mind carrying a
>>> laptop for communication and dumping photos purposes. There must be
>>> hundreds and thousands of businessmen passing through the custom everyday
>>> and I doubt they have to worry too much about their laptops. 89
>>
>> One may find his internet access a bit less 'general' there than he is
>> used to, however. China makes severe policy restrictions on internet use.
>
>I wouldn't call them "severe." You'll have to deal with the equivalent of a
>proxy server that blocks access to some sites (the only one I've found so
>far has been, oddly enough, Google Groups). I find I also can do vpn, vnc,
>ping or tracert. However, everything else works, including email to and
>from all of my email accounts and, of course, Usenet, which is how I'm
>responding to this now.

Try this site:

http://www.lysanderspooner.org/

You won't get it.

THIS SITE IS BANNED IN CHINA!


*****************************************************

"Chicago here, Kronshtadt there,
Arrogant governments everywhere,
They all lead to Tienanmen Square (too well we know.)"

"Tienanmen Lessons"
Leslie Fish
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 4:18:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"John A. Stovall" <johnastovall@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:eep9315b7sfb83a99nn400j0h8tck5vj55@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 13:51:22 -0800, "PTRAVEL"
> <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>news:XqYYd.50958$Rx5.6615@fe06.lga...
>>> leo wrote:
>>>> Gary Morrison wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
>>>>> China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
>>>>> could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon
>>>>> D100,
>>>>> or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>>>>>
>>>>> The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not
>>>>> about
>>>>> China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such
>>>>> items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling
>>>>> them
>>>>> on the black market.
>>>>>
>>>>> What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing
>>>>> happening
>>>>> in China?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My suggest is to pack light. Although I like my DSLR too, I wouldn't
>>>> want
>>>> to be a slave of the photographs. If I had money, I'd get an 8MP with
>>>> wide angle and anti-shake, like the Nikon's. I wouldn't mind carrying a
>>>> laptop for communication and dumping photos purposes. There must be
>>>> hundreds and thousands of businessmen passing through the custom
>>>> everyday
>>>> and I doubt they have to worry too much about their laptops. 89
>>>
>>> One may find his internet access a bit less 'general' there than he is
>>> used to, however. China makes severe policy restrictions on internet
>>> use.
>>
>>I wouldn't call them "severe." You'll have to deal with the equivalent of
>>a
>>proxy server that blocks access to some sites (the only one I've found so
>>far has been, oddly enough, Google Groups). I find I also can do vpn,
>>vnc,
>>ping or tracert. However, everything else works, including email to and
>>from all of my email accounts and, of course, Usenet, which is how I'm
>>responding to this now.
>
> Try this site:
>
> http://www.lysanderspooner.org/
>
> You won't get it.
>
> THIS SITE IS BANNED IN CHINA!

That's correct -- I couldn't get it. I'd never heard of Lysander Spooner,
so I looked him up on Google. He is, evidently, a 19th century anarchist.
What is lysanderspooner.org and what do they advocate?


>
>
> *****************************************************
>
> "Chicago here, Kronshtadt there,
> Arrogant governments everywhere,
> They all lead to Tienanmen Square (too well we know.)"
>
> "Tienanmen Lessons"
> Leslie Fish
>
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 4:18:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

PTRAVEL wrote:
> "John A. Stovall" <johnastovall@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:eep9315b7sfb83a99nn400j0h8tck5vj55@4ax.com...
>
>>On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 13:51:22 -0800, "PTRAVEL"
>><ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>news:XqYYd.50958$Rx5.6615@fe06.lga...
>>>
>>>>leo wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Gary Morrison wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
>>>>>>China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
>>>>>>could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon
>>>>>>D100,
>>>>>>or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not
>>>>>>about
>>>>>>China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such
>>>>>>items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling
>>>>>>them
>>>>>>on the black market.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing
>>>>>>happening
>>>>>>in China?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>My suggest is to pack light. Although I like my DSLR too, I wouldn't
>>>>>want
>>>>>to be a slave of the photographs. If I had money, I'd get an 8MP with
>>>>>wide angle and anti-shake, like the Nikon's. I wouldn't mind carrying a
>>>>>laptop for communication and dumping photos purposes. There must be
>>>>>hundreds and thousands of businessmen passing through the custom
>>>>>everyday
>>>>>and I doubt they have to worry too much about their laptops. 89
>>>>
>>>>One may find his internet access a bit less 'general' there than he is
>>>>used to, however. China makes severe policy restrictions on internet
>>>>use.
>>>
>>>I wouldn't call them "severe." You'll have to deal with the equivalent of
>>>a
>>>proxy server that blocks access to some sites (the only one I've found so
>>>far has been, oddly enough, Google Groups). I find I also can do vpn,
>>>vnc,
>>>ping or tracert. However, everything else works, including email to and
>>
>>>from all of my email accounts and, of course, Usenet, which is how I'm
>>
>>>responding to this now.
>>
>>Try this site:
>>
>>http://www.lysanderspooner.org/
>>
>>You won't get it.
>>
>>THIS SITE IS BANNED IN CHINA!
>
>
> That's correct -- I couldn't get it. I'd never heard of Lysander Spooner,
> so I looked him up on Google. He is, evidently, a 19th century anarchist.
> What is lysanderspooner.org and what do they advocate?
>
>
>
>>
>>*****************************************************
>>
>>"Chicago here, Kronshtadt there,
>>Arrogant governments everywhere,
>>They all lead to Tienanmen Square (too well we know.)"
>>
>> "Tienanmen Lessons"
>> Leslie Fish
>>
>
>
>
Well, since he was an anarchist, let me think..... Gee, can't figure it
out...


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 4:18:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:AP9Zd.1471$p34.106@fe04.lga...
> PTRAVEL wrote:
>> "John A. Stovall" <johnastovall@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:eep9315b7sfb83a99nn400j0h8tck5vj55@4ax.com...
>>
>>>On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 13:51:22 -0800, "PTRAVEL"
>>><ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:XqYYd.50958$Rx5.6615@fe06.lga...
>>>>
>>>>>leo wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Gary Morrison wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I've been toying with the possibility of taking a trip to (mainland)
>>>>>>>China. My parents suggested that I should avoid taking anything that
>>>>>>>could be viewed as a luxury item. So that might include my Nikon
>>>>>>>D100,
>>>>>>>or a laptop computer to dump the pictures from it onto.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The reason they cited was that they'd heard stories, although not
>>>>>>>about
>>>>>>>China in particular, of crooked customs officials claiming that such
>>>>>>>items are illegal in their country, confiscating them, and selling
>>>>>>>them
>>>>>>>on the black market.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What do you folks think are the chances of that sort of thing
>>>>>>>happening
>>>>>>>in China?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>My suggest is to pack light. Although I like my DSLR too, I wouldn't
>>>>>>want
>>>>>>to be a slave of the photographs. If I had money, I'd get an 8MP with
>>>>>>wide angle and anti-shake, like the Nikon's. I wouldn't mind carrying
>>>>>>a
>>>>>>laptop for communication and dumping photos purposes. There must be
>>>>>>hundreds and thousands of businessmen passing through the custom
>>>>>>everyday
>>>>>>and I doubt they have to worry too much about their laptops. 89
>>>>>
>>>>>One may find his internet access a bit less 'general' there than he is
>>>>>used to, however. China makes severe policy restrictions on internet
>>>>>use.
>>>>
>>>>I wouldn't call them "severe." You'll have to deal with the equivalent
>>>>of a
>>>>proxy server that blocks access to some sites (the only one I've found
>>>>so
>>>>far has been, oddly enough, Google Groups). I find I also can do vpn,
>>>>vnc,
>>>>ping or tracert. However, everything else works, including email to and
>>>
>>>>from all of my email accounts and, of course, Usenet, which is how I'm
>>>
>>>>responding to this now.
>>>
>>>Try this site:
>>>
>>>http://www.lysanderspooner.org/
>>>
>>>You won't get it.
>>>
>>>THIS SITE IS BANNED IN CHINA!
>>
>>
>> That's correct -- I couldn't get it. I'd never heard of Lysander
>> Spooner, so I looked him up on Google. He is, evidently, a 19th century
>> anarchist. What is lysanderspooner.org and what do they advocate?
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>*****************************************************
>>>
>>>"Chicago here, Kronshtadt there,
>>>Arrogant governments everywhere,
>>>They all lead to Tienanmen Square (too well we know.)"
>>>
>>> "Tienanmen Lessons"
>>> Leslie Fish
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> Well, since he was an anarchist, let me think..... Gee, can't figure it
> out...

Though the org site is blocked, I did google his name and found a fair bit
of information. Evidently, his teachings are espoused by a lot of
libertarian websites. Anarchy and libertarianism aren't exactly synonyms.
Interestingly, the libertarian sites are, evidently, accessible here in
China.


>
>
> --
> Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
!