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What card to get?

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May 5, 2011 8:39:17 PM

Hey guys, im upgrading my 260 to a dx11 card, and was looking for some opinions. So far i found that the 590 is the best buy, but i wanted to get some opinions before i shell out the cash because its expensive!

Thanks

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May 5, 2011 11:48:09 PM

What do you mean by best buy? It is the fastest out of the nvidia cards, yes, but it is rather expensive, unless you are considering an SLI with two other expensive GPUs, then i can see how it might be a better deal. If you are wanting a single card, the 580 or 570 are great choices; the 570 OCs with very nice gains and can run DX11 features well as well as being in the 350.00 price range.
a b Î Nvidia
May 5, 2011 11:55:24 PM

Yeah, I wouldn't say the GTX 590 is a good buy at all. On the high end the best deal for the money right now imo would be 2 HD6950s in crossfire but even a single HD6950 or GTX 560 Ti would be a large upgrade over your GTX 260.
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a b Î Nvidia
May 6, 2011 12:09:24 AM

Plz list oyur full system specs.(PSU,CPU,mobo etc.)

Wouldn't be a good idea to upgrade to a powerful card like the GTX580 or 590 and you can't use it because your other system parts will bottleneck it.
May 6, 2011 6:24:10 AM

Sorry, i meant to type 570 not 590!

Here are my system specs:

-Crosshair 3 Motherboard (Am3, ddr3)
-4 Gigs of ram but will be upgrading to 12 gig soon ( check out the other thread http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/290684-12-will-work... )
-1920 x 1080 res
-AMD Phenom II X4 Quad Core 810 2.60GHz (overclocked to 2.80)
-BFG 260
a b Î Nvidia
May 6, 2011 9:26:49 AM

Your gonna want to upgrade your processor you O.C. more.If you intend to get a big card like the GTX570 you will bottleneck it with that processor.

Are you sure you ahve the 810? I don't know if they actually make an 810 quad core.Try checking your numbers again.

What is the make/model of your PSU?
a b Î Nvidia
May 6, 2011 9:37:18 AM

Is that the best OC you can get on the processor? It should be able to go much higher easily. If you can get it to 3.2ghz or over that would be good.
You really don't need 12gb of ram. You probably never use more than 4gb actually. DL a monitoring program and see if you actually would ever use more before considering an upgrade and even then make it 8gb.
The GTX 570 is a good choice if your PSU can handle it and you can get that processor up higher.
a b Î Nvidia
May 6, 2011 10:19:26 AM

^I agree.
Unless your managing lots and lots of applications theirs really no need for that much RAM.You prolly won't see any difference at all.I say don't buy RAM and just put it twards something else.Maybe a CPU cooler or a better GPU.
May 6, 2011 10:58:36 AM

purple stank said:
Your gonna want to upgrade your processor you O.C. more.If you intend to get a big card like the GTX570 you will bottleneck it with that processor.

Are you sure you ahve the 810? I don't know if they actually make an 810 quad core.Try checking your numbers again.

What is the make/model of your PSU?


Im not at home right now so i cant check the box (god knows where it is lol), but a quick google showed this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... . Maybe this is it?

jyjjy said:
Is that the best OC you can get on the processor? It should be able to go much higher easily. If you can get it to 3.2ghz or over that would be good.
You really don't need 12gb of ram. You probably never use more than 4gb actually. DL a monitoring program and see if you actually would ever use more before considering an upgrade and even then make it 8gb.
The GTX 570 is a good choice if your PSU can handle it and you can get that processor up higher.


I didnt try that much, i tried a bit and stopped. I always use borderline of my 4 gigs, so i thought i would get 8 gigs more (2*4). Why would the cpu limit the gpu? I have a 750W Corsair HX Series Modular Power Supply btw.

purple stank said:
^I agree.
Unless your managing lots and lots of applications theirs really no need for that much RAM.You prolly won't see any difference at all.I say don't buy RAM and just put it twards something else.Maybe a CPU cooler or a better GPU.


Wel see
a b Î Nvidia
May 6, 2011 11:07:29 AM

thegatekeeper said:
I didnt try that much, i tried a bit and stopped. I always use borderline of my 4 gigs, so i thought i would get 8 gigs more (2*4). Why would the cpu limit the gpu? I have a 750W Corsair HX Series Modular Power Supply btw.
Well in gaming the CPU can produce a certain number of frames as can the GPU. If the number of frames the CPU can produce is lower than the what the GPU can render then there is a CPU bottleneck which means the CPU is limiting the card from being fully used. The GTX 570 is a very high end card and even at 1080p can throw out a lot of frames per second. A Phenom II x4 at 2.8 however is more mid-range and especially in games that only utilize 2 cores(there are still a lot of them) it is going to hold back the GTX 570 to the point where just saving some money and scaling back to a weaker but still good card makes more sense.
May 6, 2011 11:07:30 AM

gtx 570 will be the choice for you... although it seems that your processor will bottleneck your graphics card depend on games....
May 6, 2011 11:33:31 AM

jyjjy said:
Well in gaming the CPU can produce a certain number of frames as can the GPU. If the number of frames the CPU can produce is lower than the what the GPU can render then there is a CPU bottleneck which means the CPU is limiting the card from being fully used. The GTX 570 is a very high end card and even at 1080p can throw out a lot of frames per second. A Phenom II x4 at 2.8 however is more mid-range and especially in games that only utilize 2 cores(there are still a lot of them) it is going to hold back the GTX 570 to the point where just saving some money and scaling back to a weaker but still good card makes more sense.


Makes sense... so the cpu sends frames for the card to render. My monitor is 120 mhz refresh rate, so i need over 80 frames atleast. Think it will work if i oc my cpu to at leat 3.00 ghz? Im thinking of getting water cooling.
a b Î Nvidia
May 6, 2011 11:41:25 AM

That Phenom ii x4 810 is one of the lower end phenom quad cores.But at least it has 4mb of L3 catche,if i recall their are even lower versions that have higher clocked speeds but don't have the L3 catche.

I think you will need to O.C. your CPU quite a bit,at least to around 3.4ghz,to not hamper its abilites.As jyjjy was saying maybe going with a lesser card like the GTX560 is a better option.Because I highly doubt your going to be able to O.C. that processor much past 3.0ghz.
a b Î Nvidia
May 6, 2011 12:36:13 PM

I don't see why it wouldn't OC past 3.0ghz. They are all pretty much the same chip just with different stock speeds/multipliers and amounts of cache. Here's Anandtech getting it up to 3.7ghz;
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2721/11
Neoseeker 3.5ghz;
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/phen...
Xbit 3.6ghz;
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/phenom-ii-...
It will vary depending on the specific processor, motherboard, cooling and amount of time you put into it of course.
a b Î Nvidia
May 6, 2011 12:46:27 PM

thegatekeeper said:
Makes sense... so the cpu sends frames for the card to render. My monitor is 120 mhz refresh rate, so i need over 80 frames atleast. Think it will work if i oc my cpu to at leat 3.00 ghz? Im thinking of getting water cooling.

Just having an 120hz monitor doesn't mean you need 80 fps. Generally if frame rates stay above 30-40 things are pretty smooth IMO and I doubt most people could tell much difference above 50 or so. How noticeable higher/lower frame rates will be also depends on the game/perspective.
You would be better off just replacing the processor than spending enough to get water cooling but I do think your current should be able to get up pretty high. Might want to invest in a good air cooler though if you are still using the stock fan/heatsink.
a b Î Nvidia
May 6, 2011 1:21:38 PM

I forgot,is their a limit that a CPU clock speed can go that say the Northbridge speed isn't O.C.'d that it will hold back the CPU in terms of O.C. not performance?
May 6, 2011 4:27:58 PM

jyjjy said:
Just having an 120hz monitor doesn't mean you need 80 fps. Generally if frame rates stay above 30-40 things are pretty smooth IMO and I doubt most people could tell much difference above 50 or so. How noticeable higher/lower frame rates will be also depends on the game/perspective.
You would be better off just replacing the processor than spending enough to get water cooling but I do think your current should be able to get up pretty high. Might want to invest in a good air cooler though if you are still using the stock fan/heatsink.


I have an aftermarket cooler. I wasnt going to buy watercooling just for this cpu, water cooling is something permanent. (plus its my worst nightmare having to install the cpu cooler). I just checked my box and it is indeed the 810. Iv had this cpu for almost 2 years now, and my graphic card a bit more.

I dont know what i should do.. maybe change both cpu and graphic card but not ram? The 975 from amd doesnt cost a lot more than the ram, and its unlocked (i belive) and 3.6 ghz.

So i could get the 975
570
and watercooling (what brand of watercooling do you guys reccomend? I heard of dangerden but they dont have an AM3 block)

but no ram.

What do you think?
a b Î Nvidia
May 6, 2011 5:11:20 PM

I say to hold off on the CPU upgrade.With AMD's new line of processor's about a month or two away I think it would be best to wait until they come out before you start looking to buy a new CPU.When they do come out you can expect to see some price drops of the current Phenom ii's or maybe pick up a Bulldozer if you want.

Your RAM is fine because it's DDR3.
If you have the money and the knowledge then I say go for the watercooling but only if you really want it.If your not a serious Overclocker then I don't see any point to it.You should definitly check out some of the stickys in Tom's Watercooling section,lots of stuff for first time beginers and tips.

For now I say upgrade the GPU and wait for the CPU.I've heard the new line of GPU's from AMD is also expected to come out really soon so you might even think of waiting a month to see what happens in the market.I know the AMD CPU is for sure dropping in a month or 2 but i'm not so sure about their 7000 series GPU's.
May 6, 2011 5:15:15 PM

purple stank said:
I say to hold off on the CPU upgrade.With AMD's new line of processor's about a month or two away I think it would be best to wait until they come out before you start looking to buy a new CPU.When they do come out you can expect to see some price drops of the current Phenom ii's or maybe pick up a Bulldozer if you want.

Your RAM is fine because it's DDR3.
If you have the money and the knowledge then I say go for the watercooling but only if you really want it.If your not a serious Overclocker then I don't see any point to it.You should definitly check out some of the stickys in Tom's Watercooling section,lots of stuff for first time beginers and tips.

For now I say upgrade the GPU and wait for the CPU.I've heard the new line of GPU's from AMD is also expected to come out really soon so you might even think of waiting a month to see what happens in the market.I know the AMD CPU is for sure dropping in a month or 2 but i'm not so sure about their 7000 series GPU's.


Hmm you are right. I read a bit on watercooling, and it seems like something i want to do. Can you give me more info on these new cpus coming out?

Also, i found sometinh called a XEON from intel and they cost A LOT lol, whats so special about them?
May 6, 2011 5:15:33 PM

Just spring for a 955 it will not bottleneck that GPU and is easily OCed...and its on sale at the egg for like $130.00...
a b Î Nvidia
May 6, 2011 5:16:26 PM

At least try to see how high you can OC that CPU before replacing it.
May 6, 2011 5:18:18 PM

What brands should i look into for watercooling? Id like it if it was all from one brand.
a b Î Nvidia
May 6, 2011 5:20:36 PM

thegatekeeper said:
Also, i found sometinh called a XEON from intel and they cost A LOT lol, whats so special about them?
The Xeons are intended for servers and not something you need to worry about. On the Intel side at the moment the Sandy Bridge chips are the way to go. They are rather impressive compared to AMD's current line-up;
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/288?vs=203
May 6, 2011 5:25:20 PM

Server based CPU's will do you no good....or workstation GPU's...they are work specific hardware..Xeon, Firepro, Quadro, Opteron...If you plan on replacing the chip the 955 BE is the best choice for you IMHO
May 6, 2011 5:27:04 PM

I was just wondering what it was.... i wont be changing my mobo anytime soon hehe
May 6, 2011 5:29:05 PM

Huh, I suggested change CPU not MOBO....Xeon is a server CPU, Opteron is a server CPU, Quadro is a workstation video card as is Firepro...
a b Î Nvidia
May 6, 2011 5:45:17 PM

The Xeon is a server processor.It has lots of cores which is maily used in threaded applications or applications that require a lot of raw muscle not so much speed.It's not good for gaming and is mostly used by buisness's.It's priced so high because of it's raw computing power abilites.You could use it but their are no games that can utlize it.

AMD's new processor's are not very known but what little info can be found here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulldozer_(processor)

Hopefully they will finally pull ahead of Intel with these new processors it's been quite a while since they've beat Intel.And hopefully they are just as much overclockable as the Sandy Bridge's.

Quote:
Bulldozer will be the first major redesign of AMD’s processor architecture since 2003


Makes me think they might make a huge impact.
May 7, 2011 6:46:23 AM

Thanks for the input guys, but what do you think about my earlier proposition of getting just a new video card and water cooling?
May 7, 2011 7:03:07 AM

Graphics Card Yes, get a 570 you'll be happy with it.....Water Cooling No...I would purchase a better CPU like the 955 or 1055t instead....throw a Cooler Master Hyper 212+ on it and away you go.
a b Î Nvidia
May 7, 2011 7:59:26 AM

Like Purple said the purpose of water cooling is mainly to go for extreme overclocks. If that is not your goal there isn't all that much point to it IMO. Quality air cooling is much cheaper and can still be very effective.
This part of what you said also makes me wonder;
"its my worst nightmare having to install the cpu cooler"
Water cooling is much more complex to install and maintain so if just the idea of installing on air cooler makes you cringe then water cooling is really not the best idea.
May 7, 2011 9:08:40 AM

Maybe i just had bad luck with cpu coolers? I mean the aftermarket ones. Watercooling doesnt seem that hard, pump, radiator, reservoir, pipings, and blocks. No noise, just maintenance every 6 months. I still havent decided yet but im sure im not changing my cpu.
a b Î Nvidia
May 7, 2011 10:19:53 AM

I still think you should should wait a few months and see what comes on the market from Bulldozer.
a b Î Nvidia
May 7, 2011 2:30:31 PM

thegatekeeper said:
Maybe i just had bad luck with cpu coolers? I mean the aftermarket ones. Watercooling doesnt seem that hard, pump, radiator, reservoir, pipings, and blocks. No noise, just maintenance every 6 months.

What issues have you had with fans/heatsinks where all of that sounds like it would be easier? :ouch: 
May 7, 2011 2:36:55 PM

Yeah for OP...you have trouble putting an aftermarket HSF...and you think that installing a LCS is easier...WTF...
May 8, 2011 8:45:12 AM

installing an aftermarket air cooler is damn much easier than installing lcs in your system... not to mention you need to take off your current northbridge/southbridge heatsink... you need to mount your radiator as well... that sounds like heck of a lot of job to be done for me... lcs will take a lot of space in your chassis... requiring a larger chassis compared to when using air cooling system... lcs is good... more suited for ppl who overclock their entire system and use it 24/7....
May 8, 2011 8:05:40 PM

I guess i always had back luck with aftermarket coolers? I always had problems where the bracket would bend or waterver and make it really hard to put in place.

I dont think im buying anything other than the 570 gtx. What do you think guys? What brand should i get?
a b Î Nvidia
May 8, 2011 8:53:53 PM

Go with either Asus or MSI.You can't go wrong with them.
a b Î Nvidia
May 9, 2011 5:42:22 PM

You will have to overclock your processor past 3ghz if you get anything over a GTX460 or 6850.
May 10, 2011 7:23:04 AM

How can i asses how much cpu power i need for a specific graphic card? Is there a forumua?

Thanks
a b Î Nvidia
May 10, 2011 12:51:35 PM

No there is really no formula. How much stress is being placed on the GPU vs CPU varies widely depending on the specific game, resolution, settings and even what is going on in the game at a particular moment. In general you want at least a dual core of 3ghz or higher these days to get adequate frame rates in a lot of current games regardless of what card you have/resolution/settings. Having more cores helps and can let you get away with a lower clock speed in games that can take advantage of it but there are still a lot of games that only use two cores. For a card like the GTX 570 personally I would say if you don't have a quad core of 3.3ghz and preferably higher then it would make more sense to get a lesser card.

P.S. The last "s" in assess is important. :p 
May 10, 2011 8:21:29 PM

jyjjy said:
No there is really no formula. How much stress is being placed on the GPU vs CPU varies widely depending on the specific game, resolution, settings and even what is going on in the game at a particular moment. In general you want at least a dual core of 3ghz or higher these days to get adequate frame rates in a lot of current games regardless of what card you have/resolution/settings. Having more cores helps and can let you get away with a lower clock speed in games that can take advantage of it but there are still a lot of games that only use two cores. For a card like the GTX 570 personally I would say if you don't have a quad core of 3.3ghz and preferably higher then it would make more sense to get a lesser card.

P.S. The last "s" in assess is important. :p 


Lol nice catch there!

Well i dont want to buy a CPU right now because of the new ones coming out, so i guess i should get an older graphic card.

What do you think of this one?

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX...
a b Î Nvidia
May 10, 2011 8:52:18 PM

Well you didn't even try to O.C. yet...Why don't you try to learn how to O.C. first and then try before you give up on the CPU.That CPU isn't to bad and it's better htan others so you might as well try to O.C. first.
a b Î Nvidia
May 10, 2011 9:30:05 PM

If you can get that processor up to 3ghz something like the GTX 460 would be a pretty good match for it but it isn't the best choice IMO. That card in particular, while nice, is extremely expensive. This HD5850 is actually a slightly faster card and much, much cheaper;
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX...
As for putting off actually upgrading the system the Sandy Bridge chips are quite a deal as is even with no real competition from AMD. Not sure if AMD will be able to quite catch up with Bulldozer. We'll have to see but you may be waiting just to be disappointed.
a b Î Nvidia
May 10, 2011 9:46:48 PM

It's AMD's first design change since 2003.I'm sure it will be able to at least compete with the Sandy Bridge.As for the GPU, yes the 5850 is faster than the GTX460 but not in Blizzard's games which is why i say that.
May 11, 2011 9:33:15 AM

Hmm.... i got a 3d monitor that is compatible with nvidia 3d so i got the 460 so i can someday utilize that. The 460 is a lot cheaper than the 570 i was going to get, and it can overclock close to 1ghz. Wel see how it goes, cant wait for the cpus to come out!

Btw, is there any downside to using an Nvidia graphic card with an AMD cpu?
a b Î Nvidia
May 11, 2011 11:08:40 AM

Why not go with the GTX560 instead? You shouldn't bottleneck that card to heavily only minor,if you O.C. the GTX460 it will end up being the same bottleneck.

No their is no downside to using a Nvidia card with an AMD CPU.Nvidia is it's own company just like Intel.AMD is the only company that makes CPU's as well as GPU's.
May 11, 2011 4:10:16 PM

purple stank said:
Why not go with the GTX560 instead? You shouldn't bottleneck that card to heavily only minor,if you O.C. the GTX460 it will end up being the same bottleneck.

No their is no downside to using a Nvidia card with an AMD CPU.Nvidia is it's own company just like Intel.AMD is the only company that makes CPU's as well as GPU's.


Hmm.. too late now. Did i make a bad purchase? I tought the 460 would be less powerfull than the 560 and cause less of a bottleneck.
a b Î Nvidia
May 11, 2011 4:12:26 PM

Yes the GTX460 is still a good card but the GTX560 would have been better.It wouldn't need as high of an O.C. to not bottleneck like the GTX570 would have.The GTX560 would only need a minor O.C. but the GTX570 would have needed an extreme O.C. to not bottleneck it.

O well the GTX460 isn't a bad card at all.Which one did you get?
!