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purchase of new (or used) digital slr

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March 15, 2005 12:45:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Ok, I have read the reviews and come away feeling very confused. I
like to take mainly recreational photos, lots of group (unposed)stuff,
especially in lower light levels, and some action. I like the
e-volt300, the Pentax *isDT, the Nikon D70, but can't decide which is
better (or other suggestions I haven't considered). The two things I
do not like about the point and shoot digitals I have used is the time
between shots (for which I have not been able to determine if there is
a technical term or consistent specs) and the lack of good low
available light capability. Any way out of this quandary or good
suggestions? I do not want to spend more than $900 including lens. Am

I asking too much?


Peter

More about : purchase digital slr

Anonymous
March 15, 2005 2:14:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Canon Digital Rebel.

Nikon is more than $900 with lens.

"Peter" <dunk01@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1110908738.617593.263720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Ok, I have read the reviews and come away feeling very confused. I
> like to take mainly recreational photos, lots of group (unposed)stuff,
> especially in lower light levels, and some action. I like the
> e-volt300, the Pentax *isDT, the Nikon D70, but can't decide which is
> better (or other suggestions I haven't considered). The two things I
> do not like about the point and shoot digitals I have used is the time
> between shots (for which I have not been able to determine if there is
> a technical term or consistent specs) and the lack of good low
> available light capability. Any way out of this quandary or good
> suggestions? I do not want to spend more than $900 including lens. Am
>
> I asking too much?
>
>
> Peter
>
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 9:16:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Dave R knows who" <kilbyfan@spamnotAOL.com> writes:

> "Peter" <dunk01@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1110908738.617593.263720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> Ok, I have read the reviews and come away feeling very confused. I
>> like to take mainly recreational photos, lots of group (unposed)stuff,
>> especially in lower light levels, and some action. I like the
>> e-volt300, the Pentax *isDT, the Nikon D70, but can't decide which is
>> better (or other suggestions I haven't considered). The two things I
>> do not like about the point and shoot digitals I have used is the time
>> between shots (for which I have not been able to determine if there is
>> a technical term or consistent specs) and the lack of good low
>> available light capability. Any way out of this quandary or good
>> suggestions? I do not want to spend more than $900 including lens. Am
>>
>> I asking too much?
>
>
> Nope. But you might want to consider the Canon, too. I like the fact all the
> old film lenses work with the current cameras. And do you think you might
> ever want to attached your new lenses to a old film camera? I do. OK, the
> EF-S lenses won't do this, but the other 50 will, so I'm waiting for a sweet
> deal on a EOS 3.

Actually, that's exactly backwards. The Pentax and Nikon *will* use
all the old film lenses. The Canon won't touch anything before their
new "EF" series, introduced when their autofocus system came out.
Canon lenses contemporary with many of the Nikon lenses I'm currently
using on my digital cameras can't be used on the Canon digital
cameras.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:D d-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/&gt;
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/&gt;
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/&gt;
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/&gt;
Related resources
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 9:55:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Peter" <dunk01@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1110908738.617593.263720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Ok, I have read the reviews and come away feeling very confused. I
> like to take mainly recreational photos, lots of group (unposed)stuff,
> especially in lower light levels, and some action. I like the
> e-volt300, the Pentax *isDT, the Nikon D70, but can't decide which is
> better (or other suggestions I haven't considered). The two things I
> do not like about the point and shoot digitals I have used is the time
> between shots (for which I have not been able to determine if there is
> a technical term or consistent specs) and the lack of good low
> available light capability. Any way out of this quandary or good
> suggestions? I do not want to spend more than $900 including lens. Am
>
> I asking too much?
>


Nope. But you might want to consider the Canon, too. I like the fact all the
old film lenses work with the current cameras. And do you think you might
ever want to attached your new lenses to a old film camera? I do. OK, the
EF-S lenses won't do this, but the other 50 will, so I'm waiting for a sweet
deal on a EOS 3.
Anonymous
March 16, 2005 12:21:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Peter wrote:
> Ok, I have read the reviews and come away feeling very confused. I
> like to take mainly recreational photos, lots of group (unposed)stuff,
> especially in lower light levels, and some action. I like the
> e-volt300, the Pentax *isDT, the Nikon D70, but can't decide which is
> better (or other suggestions I haven't considered). The two things I
> do not like about the point and shoot digitals I have used is the time
> between shots (for which I have not been able to determine if there is
> a technical term or consistent specs) and the lack of good low
> available light capability. Any way out of this quandary or good
> suggestions? I do not want to spend more than $900 including lens. Am
>
> I asking too much?
>
>
> Peter
>

I think it depends on the lens you plan to use. I bought the Nikon D70 with
18-70 AFS lens (it has a motor in the lens) and it seemed to focus quicker than
the Pentax *istDS with 18-125 (no motor in lens). The focus speed was most
important to me, along with image quality and position of controls. So the Canon
300D was not an option.

Ben
Anonymous
March 16, 2005 1:58:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Peter wrote:
> Ok, I have read the reviews and come away feeling very confused. I
> like to take mainly recreational photos, lots of group
(unposed)stuff,
> especially in lower light levels, and some action. I like the
> e-volt300, the Pentax *isDT, the Nikon D70, but can't decide which is
> better (or other suggestions I haven't considered). The two things I
> do not like about the point and shoot digitals I have used is the
time
> between shots (for which I have not been able to determine if there
is
> a technical term or consistent specs) and the lack of good low
> available light capability. Any way out of this quandary or good
> suggestions? I do not want to spend more than $900 including lens.
Am

The EOS-350D will be out in a few days, and while it will initially be
$1000 with lens, it will soon be on sale for around $900 (watch Dell
for a 15% off sale combined with a $75 off coupon).

Of the three you listed, either the *istD or the D70 are fine, avoid
the E-300. But by all accounts, replacements for the *istD and the D70
are coming very soon.

The bottom line is that your best option for $900 will be the EOS-350D
as soon as it is discounted, which should be in a month or two.

Check "http://digitalslrinfo.com" for more information.
Anonymous
March 16, 2005 2:17:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote in message
news:m2mzt4xx5c.fsf@gw.dd-b.net...

> Actually, that's exactly backwards.

Not really.

> The Pentax and Nikon *will* use all the old film lenses.

Well at least you can physically attach them."Use" is too generous a
word.

>The Canon won't touch anything before their new "EF" series,
introduced when their autofocus system came out.

Yes, the "new" EF series was introduced in 1987, about eighteen years
ago. Not really "new."

But here's the good part: Any _Canon_ lens designed for the EOS mount,
will work on the digital bodies, with all functions operational (third
party lenses for the EOS mount sometimes are flakey, i.e. Sigma
lenses). You won't see the cryptic message in a chart: " Lens will
mount - see specification sheet for functions provided." See a Nikon F
mount lens compatibility chart:
http://www.nikonlinks.com/unklbil/bodylens.htm.

It is true that the very old Canon lenses, the FD mount lenses, cannot
be used on the newer bodies (well actually they can be, with an
adapter, but few people want to do this). At the time the EOS system
was introduced, Canon sold a very high end adapter to adapt some of the
professional FD lenses to the EOS mount, but it's been so long now,
that it's been discontinued.

Steve
http://digitalslrinfo.com
Anonymous
March 16, 2005 8:12:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote in message
news:m2mzt4xx5c.fsf@gw.dd-b.net...
> "Dave R knows who" <kilbyfan@spamnotAOL.com> writes:
>
>> "Peter" <dunk01@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:1110908738.617593.263720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>> Ok, I have read the reviews and come away feeling very confused. I
>>> like to take mainly recreational photos, lots of group (unposed)stuff,
>>> especially in lower light levels, and some action. I like the
>>> e-volt300, the Pentax *isDT, the Nikon D70, but can't decide which is
>>> better (or other suggestions I haven't considered). The two things I
>>> do not like about the point and shoot digitals I have used is the time
>>> between shots (for which I have not been able to determine if there is
>>> a technical term or consistent specs) and the lack of good low
>>> available light capability. Any way out of this quandary or good
>>> suggestions? I do not want to spend more than $900 including lens. Am
>>>
>>> I asking too much?
>>
>>
>> Nope. But you might want to consider the Canon, too. I like the fact all
>> the
>> old film lenses work with the current cameras. And do you think you might
>> ever want to attached your new lenses to a old film camera? I do. OK,
>> the
>> EF-S lenses won't do this, but the other 50 will, so I'm waiting for a
>> sweet
>> deal on a EOS 3.
>
> Actually, that's exactly backwards. The Pentax and Nikon *will* use
> all the old film lenses. The Canon won't touch anything before their
> new "EF" series, introduced when their autofocus system came out.
> Canon lenses contemporary with many of the Nikon lenses I'm currently
> using on my digital cameras can't be used on the Canon digital
> cameras.


If you read carefully I purposely didn't say the others couldn't because I
do not know. I only stated what I did know about the Canon. A very quick
look at the Canon Camera Museum shows at least one EF lens debuted in 1987,
so we're getting close to two decades.

That's good to know about the Nikon. You're saying their MF lenses can be
used on the D70? Wow.
Anonymous
March 16, 2005 9:26:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

David Dyer-Bennet wrote:

> Friends with Canon cameras were *furious* that their
> much-beloved gear had been made obsolete overnight. They lost a
> *boatload* of money, since the stuff had little resale value. And
> most of them ended up with Nikon or other gear, not new Canon gear,
> afterwards.

Yet if Canon had not updated their lens mount, they would now be out of
the SLR business, and your friends would still be angry. Are the same
friends angry that the newer Nikon lenses for the Nikon digital SLRs
don't work on their film SLRs, despite the fact that they can be
physically attached? I am not angry that my two EF-S lenses cannot be
used on my Canon film body.

Nikon is now paying a very heavy price for not updating their F mount,
and dealing with the furiousness of customers that believe that a
company has an obligation to not improve their products if it makes
previously purchased products have lower resale value. The dominance of
Canon in digital SLRs is due not only to their sensor expertise, but to
their superior lens mount and interface.
Anonymous
March 16, 2005 9:37:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Dave R knows who" <kilbyfan@spamnotAOL.com> writes:

> "David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote in message
> news:m2mzt4xx5c.fsf@gw.dd-b.net...
>> "Dave R knows who" <kilbyfan@spamnotAOL.com> writes:
>>
>>> "Peter" <dunk01@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:1110908738.617593.263720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>> Ok, I have read the reviews and come away feeling very confused. I
>>>> like to take mainly recreational photos, lots of group (unposed)stuff,
>>>> especially in lower light levels, and some action. I like the
>>>> e-volt300, the Pentax *isDT, the Nikon D70, but can't decide which is
>>>> better (or other suggestions I haven't considered). The two things I
>>>> do not like about the point and shoot digitals I have used is the time
>>>> between shots (for which I have not been able to determine if there is
>>>> a technical term or consistent specs) and the lack of good low
>>>> available light capability. Any way out of this quandary or good
>>>> suggestions? I do not want to spend more than $900 including lens. Am
>>>>
>>>> I asking too much?
>>>
>>>
>>> Nope. But you might want to consider the Canon, too. I like the fact all
>>> the
>>> old film lenses work with the current cameras. And do you think you might
>>> ever want to attached your new lenses to a old film camera? I do. OK,
>>> the
>>> EF-S lenses won't do this, but the other 50 will, so I'm waiting for a
>>> sweet
>>> deal on a EOS 3.
>>
>> Actually, that's exactly backwards. The Pentax and Nikon *will* use
>> all the old film lenses. The Canon won't touch anything before their
>> new "EF" series, introduced when their autofocus system came out.
>> Canon lenses contemporary with many of the Nikon lenses I'm currently
>> using on my digital cameras can't be used on the Canon digital
>> cameras.
>
>
> If you read carefully I purposely didn't say the others couldn't because I
> do not know. I only stated what I did know about the Canon. A very quick
> look at the Canon Camera Museum shows at least one EF lens debuted in 1987,
> so we're getting close to two decades.
>
> That's good to know about the Nikon. You're saying their MF lenses can be
> used on the D70? Wow.

Yes, and the D2X and the Kodak DCS 14n for that matter. (Anything
that was or has been AId; the *really* old lenses that *only* have the
external meter coupling won't work without modification.)

And, most importantly (to me personally anyway), on my Fuji S2. I use
24mm, 35mm, 58mm, 135mm, and 300mm large-aperture manual-focus lenses
on mine. Oh, and the 500mm f8 Spiratone mirror lens, even.

Also on the Nikon AF film SLRs, like my N90.

Nikon is *starting* to ruin this by introducing "G" series lenses
without an aperture ring. I can't use these new lenses on my older
bodies, because the bodies have no way for me to control the
aperture. I could use a G series on my N90 in shutter-priority or
program modes, I guess, but I mostly run manual, so that's not so
useful.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:D d-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/&gt;
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/&gt;
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/&gt;
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/&gt;
Anonymous
March 16, 2005 9:41:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

scharf.steven@gmail.com writes:

> "David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote in message
> news:m2mzt4xx5c.fsf@gw.dd-b.net...
>
>> Actually, that's exactly backwards.
>
> Not really.
>
>> The Pentax and Nikon *will* use all the old film lenses.
>
> Well at least you can physically attach them."Use" is too generous a
> word.
>
>>The Canon won't touch anything before their new "EF" series,
> introduced when their autofocus system came out.
>
> Yes, the "new" EF series was introduced in 1987, about eighteen years
> ago. Not really "new."

Depends on your perspective. I'm still using photo equipment I bought
well before then.

> But here's the good part: Any _Canon_ lens designed for the EOS mount,
> will work on the digital bodies, with all functions operational (third
> party lenses for the EOS mount sometimes are flakey, i.e. Sigma
> lenses). You won't see the cryptic message in a chart: " Lens will
> mount - see specification sheet for functions provided." See a Nikon F
> mount lens compatibility chart:
> http://www.nikonlinks.com/unklbil/bodylens.htm.

I've never looked at that chart except for amusement. I mount a lens,
I use it; end of story.

> It is true that the very old Canon lenses, the FD mount lenses,
> cannot be used on the newer bodies (well actually they can be, with
> an adapter, but few people want to do this). At the time the EOS
> system was introduced, Canon sold a very high end adapter to adapt
> some of the professional FD lenses to the EOS mount, but it's been
> so long now, that it's been discontinued.

See, several of the bodies and lenses I use now, I bought before Canon
came out with their EOS line. I'm still using them, including with my
Fuji S2 digital. It would have cost me thousands of dollars to
replace those lenses and bodies when I got my first autofocus Nikon
body; but because Nikon preserved lens mount compatibility, I didn't
have to. Friends with Canon cameras were *furious* that their
much-beloved gear had been made obsolete overnight. They lost a
*boatload* of money, since the stuff had little resale value. And
most of them ended up with Nikon or other gear, not new Canon gear,
afterwards.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:D d-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/&gt;
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/&gt;
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/&gt;
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/&gt;
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 12:17:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

scharf.steven@gmail.com writes:

> David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
>
>> Friends with Canon cameras were *furious* that their
>> much-beloved gear had been made obsolete overnight. They lost a
>> *boatload* of money, since the stuff had little resale value. And
>> most of them ended up with Nikon or other gear, not new Canon gear,
>> afterwards.
>
> Yet if Canon had not updated their lens mount, they would now be out of
> the SLR business, and your friends would still be angry. Are the same
> friends angry that the newer Nikon lenses for the Nikon digital SLRs
> don't work on their film SLRs, despite the fact that they can be
> physically attached? I am not angry that my two EF-S lenses cannot be
> used on my Canon film body.

I'm angry at Nikon for the "G" lenses, yes.

> Nikon is now paying a very heavy price for not updating their F
> mount, and dealing with the furiousness of customers that believe
> that a company has an obligation to not improve their products if it
> makes previously purchased products have lower resale value. The
> dominance of Canon in digital SLRs is due not only to their sensor
> expertise, but to their superior lens mount and interface.

I think Nikon is still experiencing great benefits from preserving
lens mount compatibility. Lots of people are still using classic
Nikon glass on their new cameras, and are happy to do it.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:D d-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/&gt;
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/&gt;
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/&gt;
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/&gt;
Anonymous
March 21, 2005 8:48:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote in message
news:m2r7ift8e9.fsf@gw.dd-b.net...

> Nikon is *starting* to ruin this by introducing "G" series lenses
> without an aperture ring. I can't use these new lenses on my older
> bodies, because the bodies have no way for me to control the
> aperture. I could use a G series on my N90 in shutter-priority or
> program modes, I guess, but I mostly run manual, so that's not so
> useful.


This seems to be true for all the manufactures: they are making lenses which
just will not work with film bodies. But I admire Canon: So far only the
EF-S lenses cannot be used, and since they are not "L" quality builds I'm
not worried.
Anonymous
March 22, 2005 4:34:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Dave R knows who" <kilbyfan@spamnotAOL.com> wrote in message
news:CND%d.11690$m31.122489@typhoon.sonic.net...
>
> "David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote in message
> news:m2r7ift8e9.fsf@gw.dd-b.net...
>
>> Nikon is *starting* to ruin this by introducing "G" series lenses
>> without an aperture ring. I can't use these new lenses on my older
>> bodies, because the bodies have no way for me to control the
>> aperture. I could use a G series on my N90 in shutter-priority or
>> program modes, I guess, but I mostly run manual, so that's not so
>> useful.
>
>
> This seems to be true for all the manufactures: they are making lenses
> which just will not work with film bodies. But I admire Canon: So far only
> the EF-S lenses cannot be used, and since they are not "L" quality builds
> I'm not worried.
>

Just read that Pentax is doing the same. Since the *ist D/DS has aperture
controls on the camera I guess they don't think the redundancy is needed for
digital. But like you, I would not be able to use them on other Pentax boxes
for the same reason. Shutter priority would be my only option on my "A"
series film boxes, but that's about it except for AE mode. I am not overly
concerned since my collection of KA lenses is pretty good right now.

Ed
Anonymous
March 23, 2005 7:34:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Dave R knows who" <kilbyfan@spamnotAOL.com> wrote in message
news:CND%d.11690$m31.122489@typhoon.sonic.net...

> This seems to be true for all the manufactures: they are making lenses
which
> just will not work with film bodies. But I admire Canon: So far only the
> EF-S lenses cannot be used, and since they are not "L" quality builds I'm
> not worried.

I don't think that they'll make L lenses in EF-S, since they'll want all L
lenses to be usable on their professional, full-frame, or 29x19mm sensor
bodies.
Anonymous
March 23, 2005 7:51:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote in message
news:m2mzt3t870.fsf@gw.dd-b.net...
> scharf.steven@gmail.com writes:
>
>
> See, several of the bodies and lenses I use now, I bought before Canon
> came out with their EOS line. I'm still using them, including with my
> Fuji S2 digital. It would have cost me thousands of dollars to
> replace those lenses and bodies when I got my first autofocus Nikon
> body; but because Nikon preserved lens mount compatibility, I didn't
> have to. Friends with Canon cameras were *furious* that their
> much-beloved gear had been made obsolete overnight. They lost a
> *boatload* of money, since the stuff had little resale value. And
> most of them ended up with Nikon or other gear, not new Canon gear,
> afterwards.
> --
> David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:D d-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/&gt;
> RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/&gt;
> Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/&gt;
> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/&gt;
> Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/&gt;

Well, a Canon FD mount lens certainly wouldn't work on your Fuji S2, so
that's largely irrelevant. And it was introduced long after the EF mount
was, so that's also fudging the point.
I had a bunch of FD mount stuff, too. Didn't make me furious, I figured
that if I was going to use AF gear, I'd be buying new lenses, anyway,
whether Canon, Nikon, Pentax or Minolta. Ended up buying Canon, because
they still made sense, and by then, they had IS lenses that no one else had.
Then traded my A-1, AE-1P and several Canon and non Canon lenses for a used
1n, Elan and a couple of Canon USM lenses. So my experience doesn't match
that of your acquaintances. And it's a nearly 20 year old beef, it's time
to let go. The Nikon "G" lenses won't work on anything older than an N80,
so that's not a valid argument, anymore, either.

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
!