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Irony, AMD introduced tri-gate in 2003???

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October 20, 2011 8:01:02 PM

I'm so disappointed in AMD as a company. They were at the top of there game at the beginning of the decade. WTF happened? So, INtel implements tri-gate in ivy bridge as though they are the inventors and creators, AMD announced said idea in 2003, where was the innovation, where was the continued research. They had the chance to take it to the next level and failed miserably now Intel is introducing ideas they had years ago as though they are new, well ideas IBM had years ago as their own.

"Intel, however, wasn't the first company to introduce this technology. In late 2003, AMD announced their creation of 'Triple-Gate Transistors' to maximize 'transistor switching performance and decreases power-wasting leakage'. [10] No further announcements of this technology were made until Intel's announcement in May 2011."

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/display/200309181403...
October 20, 2011 8:32:53 PM

acadia11 said:
I'm so disappointed in AMD as a company. They were at the top of there game at the beginning of the decade. WTF happened? So, INtel implements tri-gate in ivy bridge as though they are the inventors and creators, AMD announced said idea in 2003, where was the innovation, where was the continued research. They had the chance to take it to the next level and failed miserably now Intel is introducing ideas they had years ago as though they are new, well ideas IBM had years ago as their own.

"Intel, however, wasn't the first company to introduce this technology. In late 2003, AMD announced their creation of 'Triple-Gate Transistors' to maximize 'transistor switching performance and decreases power-wasting leakage'. [10] No further announcements of this technology were made until Intel's announcement in May 2011."

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/display/200309181403...



Well, if you follow materials tech, you'll see that FD-SOI just became available for mass market - well almost. AMD\GF was said to be planning FD-SOI for under 20nm. It's said that Intel will also have to adopt FD-SOI after 14nm.

AMD recnetly said they were workign on similar tech.
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October 20, 2011 8:49:49 PM

AMD has a new triple-gate process and is actually doing fine despite the dispair shown by some folks. AMD made a major breakthrough with the Llano APU that will forever change the notebook landscape and even entry level desktop. Trinity is the next APU and faster than Llano with lower power consumption.

Bulldozer based Opterons are selling faster than AMD can produce them as are Llano and Zambezi. Cray bought the first 10,000 BD based Opterons for Supercomputers and they are waiting on more. The BD based Opterons are reported to be ~35% faster than the previous model Opterons.

I would not lose any sleep or shed any tears for AMD as they have a lot of good things coming to market. The FX series was a first-cut of Bulldozer based desktop CPUs not the final version. It is better in some apps but needs fine tuning for desktop use, which is will get.
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October 20, 2011 9:55:42 PM

beenthere said:
AMD has a new triple-gate process and is actually doing fine despite the dispair shown by some folks. AMD made a major breakthrough with the Llano APU that will forever change the notebook landscape and even entry level desktop. Trinity is the next APU and faster than Llano with lower power consumption.

Bulldozer based Opterons are selling faster than AMD can produce them as are Llano and Zambezi. Cray bought the first 10,000 BD based Opterons for Supercomputers and they are waiting on more. The BD based Opterons are reported to be ~35% faster than the previous model Opterons.

I would not lose any sleep or shed any tears for AMD as they have a lot of good things coming to market. The FX series was a first-cut of Bulldozer based desktop CPUs not the final version. It is better in some apps but needs fine tuning for desktop use, which is will get.


Actually I think it is GF that has the fabs & process - not AMD. And I don't think Llano APU uses triple-gate either. Or if it is supposed to, and GF doesn't actually have a triple-gate process, that would explain the low yields :D ..
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October 21, 2011 2:58:00 AM

beenthere said:
AMD has a new triple-gate process and is actually doing fine despite the dispair shown by some folks. AMD made a major breakthrough with the Llano APU that will forever change the notebook landscape and even entry level desktop. Trinity is the next APU and faster than Llano with lower power consumption.

Bulldozer based Opterons are selling faster than AMD can produce them as are Llano and Zambezi. Cray bought the first 10,000 BD based Opterons for Supercomputers and they are waiting on more. The BD based Opterons are reported to be ~35% faster than the previous model Opterons.

I would not lose any sleep or shed any tears for AMD as they have a lot of good things coming to market. The FX series was a first-cut of Bulldozer based desktop CPUs not the final version. It is better in some apps but needs fine tuning for desktop use, which is will get.

Mind dropping some links to server BD benchmarks? I intend to get one.
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October 21, 2011 3:02:49 AM

" The BD based Opterons are reported to be ~35% faster than the previous model Opterons. " 35% faster using 50% more cores and using 100% more power doesnt make them better.
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October 21, 2011 3:16:44 AM

iam2thecrowe said:
" The BD based Opterons are reported to be ~35% faster than the previous model Opterons. " 35% faster using 50% more cores and using 100% more power doesnt make them better.

Go troll elsewhere. Their server chips come with adjustable TDP.
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October 21, 2011 1:59:12 PM

fazers_on_stun said:
Actually I think it is GF that has the fabs & process - not AMD. And I don't think Llano APU uses triple-gate either. Or if it is supposed to, and GF doesn't actually have a triple-gate process, that would explain the low yields :D ..


Obviously AMD and Gl-Flo are now two legally different entities but they work very closely and as one in many instances.

Llano does not use triple-gate nor do any current AMD products. Production issues do not have anything to do with triple-gate and is related to switching to the smaller traditional 32nm CPU production.
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October 21, 2011 2:00:31 PM

iam2thecrowe said:
" The BD based Opterons are reported to be ~35% faster than the previous model Opterons. " 35% faster using 50% more cores and using 100% more power doesnt make them better.


Enterprise is buying BD based Opterons based on better performance with lower power consumption.
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October 21, 2011 2:16:16 PM

acadia11 said:
So, INtel implements tri-gate in ivy bridge as though they are the inventors and creators, AMD announced said idea in 2003, where was the innovation, where was the continued research. They had the chance to take it to the next level and failed miserably now Intel is introducing ideas they had years ago as though they are new, well ideas IBM had years ago as their own.

Must not have worked then.

History is replete with good ideas that were technologically ahead of their time.
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October 21, 2011 10:38:36 PM

beenthere said:
AMD has a new triple-gate process and is actually doing fine despite the dispair shown by some folks. AMD made a major breakthrough with the Llano APU that will forever change the notebook landscape and even entry level desktop. Trinity is the next APU and faster than Llano with lower power consumption.

Bulldozer based Opterons are selling faster than AMD can produce them as are Llano and Zambezi. Cray bought the first 10,000 BD based Opterons for Supercomputers and they are waiting on more. The BD based Opterons are reported to be ~35% faster than the previous model Opterons.

I would not lose any sleep or shed any tears for AMD as they have a lot of good things coming to market. The FX series was a first-cut of Bulldozer based desktop CPUs not the final version. It is better in some apps but needs fine tuning for desktop use, which is will get.


Wow. A mature, thoughtful analysis of Bulldozer and AMD! I was getting a little tired of the high school dropout crowd posting their insightful "Bulldozer = epic fail" posts.
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October 21, 2011 10:42:59 PM

iam2thecrowe said:
" The BD based Opterons are reported to be ~35% faster than the previous model Opterons. " 35% faster using 50% more cores and using 100% more power doesnt make them better.


How many times to we have to have this discussion? Two integer engines in module equal one core. The IBM power 7 has 2 integer engines AND 4 FPU and they still call it one core. There is a reason for that.

And no, they are not using 100% more power either. Servers don't overclock.

I think I just addressed this type of post in my last thread.
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October 21, 2011 10:43:48 PM

alikum said:
Go troll elsewhere. Their server chips come with adjustable TDP.


He is not trolling. Just ignorant of the topic.
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October 21, 2011 10:46:34 PM

beenthere said:
Obviously AMD and Gl-Flo are now two legally different entities but they work very closely and as one in many instances.

Llano does not use triple-gate nor do any current AMD products. Production issues do not have anything to do with triple-gate and is related to switching to the smaller traditional 32nm CPU production.



No AMD owns I believe a ~20% stake in GF and has half of the seats on the board. GF is a subsidiary of AMD\ATIC by definition. Plus they're still the biggest customer.
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October 22, 2011 1:25:37 AM

FALC0N said:
He is not trolling. Just ignorant of the topic.

Which is trolling :D 
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October 22, 2011 1:36:26 AM

alikum said:
Go troll elsewhere. Their server chips come with adjustable TDP.

FALC0N said:
And no, they are not using 100% more power either. Servers don't overclock.


oh come on people, you dont know a bit of exageration when you see it! It's like having a conversation with Sheldon from Big Bang Theory, dont take everything so literally when something is quite obviously exagerated.
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October 22, 2011 1:53:43 AM

BaronMatrix said:
Well, if you follow materials tech, you'll see that FD-SOI just became available for mass market - well almost. AMD\GF was said to be planning FD-SOI for under 20nm. It's said that Intel will also have to adopt FD-SOI after 14nm.

AMD recnetly said they were workign on similar tech.


Every time there is a new prcess coming, Intel is said to have to move to some sort of SOI process, yet they have easily escaped that. I don't think Intel will go FD-SOI. I think they will (and already have) invest money into process technology and move to something new. This site states that 14nm and 10nm will be using 3D Trigates:

http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/06/intels-14nm-and-10-nm-...

And this slide shows the ideas that Intel is probably researching, such as III-V for 7nm:



beenthere said:
AMD has a new triple-gate process and is actually doing fine despite the dispair shown by some folks. AMD made a major breakthrough with the Llano APU that will forever change the notebook landscape and even entry level desktop. Trinity is the next APU and faster than Llano with lower power consumption.

Bulldozer based Opterons are selling faster than AMD can produce them as are Llano and Zambezi. Cray bought the first 10,000 BD based Opterons for Supercomputers and they are waiting on more. The BD based Opterons are reported to be ~35% faster than the previous model Opterons.

I would not lose any sleep or shed any tears for AMD as they have a lot of good things coming to market. The FX series was a first-cut of Bulldozer based desktop CPUs not the final version. It is better in some apps but needs fine tuning for desktop use, which is will get.


AMD has no 3D Trigate process. Llano, while its nice for laptops, has not really changed anything. If anything ARM has done more to change the face of mobile computing. My phone has a powerfull dual core in it and can do some very amazing stuff (Droid Bionic). Not too thrilled for Trinity yet as its BD based which means it may have the same issues as both BD and Llano, BDs performance/heat and Llanos low yeilds due to the GPU not being as happy on 32nm.

As for the Opterons selling too fast, i think its more of AMD not having the decent enough yeilds. A new process with a new arch always causes lower yeilds. In fact thats why it has sold out so fast, my store can't even get any yet.

AMD doesn't need to bring back the FX moniker and release a meh CPU. If they wanted to put the FX back into the world, it needed to be FX. Super high end and high price. More competitive.

I want AMD to succeed. I don't think they are doing that though. The only thing I see real potential in is the HD79XX series. The 28nm will lower power use and the additions will give a decent performance boost. but it could still pull a 180 and suck.

As for fine tuning, thats what hurts it the most. Software is always lacking, by a lot. Thats why my Q6600 is still a decent CPU these days, and its 5 years old, and there still is no bottleneck for me. But I am sure there will be someday. But AMD doesn't have 5 years and most people wont upgrade their CPU every year, or board and CPU etc. They need something that drops in and performs now, not years down the road.

As well with the OP, Intel started work on their 3D-Tri Gates back in 2001 but not sure if they ever announced it.
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October 22, 2011 6:28:00 AM

Anyone interested in Intel's tri-gate process may want to take a look at this presentation: Intel Announces New 22nm 3D Tri-gate Transistors

Regarding FD-SOI - page 24 states "Dramatic performance gain at low operating voltage, better than Bulk, PDSOI or FDSOI".
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October 23, 2011 1:13:06 AM

jimmysmitty said:




AMD doesn't need to bring back the FX moniker and release a meh CPU. If they wanted to put the FX back into the world, it needed to be FX. Super high end and high price. More competitive.


I don't think they need to be super high end or high price, but they needs to be worthy of the FX moniker. I know that is vague, but if the enthusiast is left with a smile on his face, its worthy.
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October 30, 2011 12:19:58 AM

jimmysmitty said:
Every time there is a new prcess coming, Intel is said to have to move to some sort of SOI process, yet they have easily escaped that. I don't think Intel will go FD-SOI. I think they will (and already have) invest money into process technology and move to something new. This site states that 14nm and 10nm will be using 3D Trigates:

http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/06/intels-14nm-and-10-nm-...

And this slide shows the ideas that Intel is probably researching, such as III-V for 7nm:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Zact7IYIEAs/TfoPiofxwXI/AAAAAAAALuU/-MYA3wJQ2UQ/s1600/intel2017details.png



AMD has no 3D Trigate process. Llano, while its nice for laptops, has not really changed anything. If anything ARM has done more to change the face of mobile computing. My phone has a powerfull dual core in it and can do some very amazing stuff (Droid Bionic). Not too thrilled for Trinity yet as its BD based which means it may have the same issues as both BD and Llano, BDs performance/heat and Llanos low yeilds due to the GPU not being as happy on 32nm.

As for the Opterons selling too fast, i think its more of AMD not having the decent enough yeilds. A new process with a new arch always causes lower yeilds. In fact thats why it has sold out so fast, my store can't even get any yet.

AMD doesn't need to bring back the FX moniker and release a meh CPU. If they wanted to put the FX back into the world, it needed to be FX. Super high end and high price. More competitive.

I want AMD to succeed. I don't think they are doing that though. The only thing I see real potential in is the HD79XX series. The 28nm will lower power use and the additions will give a decent performance boost. but it could still pull a 180 and suck.

As for fine tuning, thats what hurts it the most. Software is always lacking, by a lot. Thats why my Q6600 is still a decent CPU these days, and its 5 years old, and there still is no bottleneck for me. But I am sure there will be someday. But AMD doesn't have 5 years and most people wont upgrade their CPU every year, or board and CPU etc. They need something that drops in and performs now, not years down the road.

As well with the OP, Intel started work on their 3D-Tri Gates back in 2001 but not sure if they ever announced it.




That's exactly the point Bulldozer would have been more than enough to compete and retake the performance crown had it been released on time in 2009. That's AMD's problem always a dollar short and a day late.
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