Arrrrrgg MY EYES ARE BURNING

[alltaken]

i have a 19" flat screen crt

it is the second one i have had (i sent it back and this is the second one that is the same model etc)

the convergance on both of them has been up to 3 pixels off!!!!

i will set the convergance to be perfect at the top of the screen and the bottom will be 3 pixels or if i do it to the middle of the screen the top and bottom will be about 1-2 pixels off

MY EYES ARE BURNING i cannot focus on anything.

on monday i think i will ring up phillips and talk to the guy again and say I WANT A LCD WITH 1600x1200 resolution.

my eyes hurt so much and i've only had it back for 2 days!!!

have any of you had similar problems.

i am into CG work so i am very particular about my screen!!

 

[Teq]

Hello Alltaken,
Yes, I've seen this many times. More than one person who has little choice to use a bad monitor (in an office, etc.) has wound up with glasses because of this.

First off, set your vertical scan rate to 70 or better. This can considerably ease eyestrain. In windows this is in display properties/settings/advanced/monitor.

As I've said in other threads here, your should never just buy a CRT based monitor and especially don't buy from these "drop box" vendors on the web... preview the <b>actual</b> monitor before you take it home. If you take several monitors, all the same, and line them up you will see a wide variation in display quality. This is the result of normal adjustment/assembly variations in the factory. You really do need to resolve your purchase right down to the serial number (i.e. "I want <i>THIS</i> one" -- not -- "I want one of these".)

FWIW... There was a computer store in my area that used to sell Phillips monitors... They dumped them because the return rate was almost 50%.

I'd strongly suggest you look into NEC, KDS or Viewsonic... the models without the Diamondtron or Trinitron CRTs are usally excellent. (The 2 CRTs mentioned are terrible designs, having 2 black lines across the display that can't be hidden)

Finally, if you are doing work that is particularly fussy (CAD or CGA, for example) it may be worth your money to void the warranty and have a good monitor custom adjusted to your needs.



<b>(</b>It ain't better if it don't work.<b>)</b>

 

[alltaken]

well the guy on the philips hotline said that they would "custom" adjust it for me.

but in the end the company that they contracted it out to just replaced the monitor with a new one (i would have prefered it to be adjusted)

anyway the tow black lines DO NOT BOTHER ME!!!!
the monitor is nice except the convergance which the philips rep said they would adjust (so i will contact my personal rep and tell him what i want done exactly)

what other flatscreen crts can you buy that don't have these problems!!

and yeah i know that its a problem staying with a bad monitor cause you'll end up with glasses.

its the weekend so i'm gonna ring up tommorow

 

[Teq]

Hi Alltaken,

Judging from your description of the problem it sounds like the deflection yoke is not correctly centered on the CRT. This is not a problem you will have with an occasional monitor, because the yoke is mounted by placing a jig over the crt, dropping the yoke in place, inserting the rubber mounting wedges, tightening the collar around the CRT neck and then removing the jig. When you get a jig that's out of alignment it's going to mess up dozens or hundreds of monitors, unless their QC people are on the ball.

So what I'm telling you is that replacement monitors are not likely to solve the problem for you.

There are screwdriver adjustments on the deflection yoke itself that can be used to compensate for minor errors in convergence, a qualified tech should know exactly which to twist and how much to sort your problem.

When you talk to your phillips rep, ask him/her where the nearest service depot is (pray it's not on a different continent :lol: ) make an appointment with them and carry the monitor in. Show the tech exactly what you want done and make sure you don't bring it home until you are happy with it.

As for the stupid aperture wires, they are in Diamondtron (Mitsubusi) and Trinitron (Sony) display tubes. Any monitor not based on these two tubes will not have the black lines.

Hope this helps...


<b>(</b>It ain't better if it don't work.<b>)</b>

 

[alltaken]

yeah thanks for the in depth info.

the rep said to me most of what you have told me!!!
except exactly they problem

he said that you have a risk of eye problems if you don't get it fixed and that they will sort it out for me (3 year onsite warrenty)

he told me that it should be a simple adjustment, he then contracted it out to a local monitor shop who came and picked it up.

they seemed to just get a new one in rather than adjust the old one. (this new one has a similar but different problem)

you seem to have been a CRT repairer so know what you are talking about.
this rep that i talked to said to me that if i was not 100% happy with it in any way once it came back (even if within philips specs) that i should ring him personally (e.g ask for him when i ring) and he would organise somthing untill i was completely happy with it.

i will ring him tommorow (ok today its just after 12 am now)

and will tell him my requirements
these are them
at 1600x1200 resolution and 85Hz
the monitor must be adjusted to fit the CRT tube
the convergance in the 4 corners and the centre must be perfect all at the same time. both horizontaly and verticaly.

i will get him to write these down for the local contractor to read.
and basicly i will tell him that if they get a new monitor/replacement agian that it must be checked and fit my specs before given to me.

p.s. i live in New Zealand where we have our own branch of Philips and local hotline.
we are also covered by many many consumer laws which would protect me from bad service (basicly if they don't fix the problem i can get all my money back etc...) and if they don't fix problems/ provide a satisfactory product i can take them to court for $20 ($10 USD) and make them fix it.

so customer service around here is often 2nd to none.(not always)

do you think that my requirements are reasonable??

 

[Teq]

Sounds like they really want to help you with your problem. That's great!

I noted that you are using 85hz vertical refresh. One thing I have noticed with some (not all) CRT monitors is that there seems to be a tradeoff in higher refresh rates... as the vertical frequency goes up, the focus goes down. I usually suggest a mid-range frequency (70 or 75hz) rather than running to the max. Most people can't see the refresh flicker above 68hz anyway and it's likely your monitor will run cooler in the bargain.

As for the service depot just swapping out monitors, I suggest you ask them not to do that unless the one you have is unadjustable. You risk getting yourself into a constant cycle of RMAs and unsuitable monitors. As I mentioned earlier, this sounds like an assembly problem... no point getting another monitor with the same problem. If the monitor is OK in other respects, write down your serial number and make sure you get the same one back. (i.e. force them to actually fix it.)

Let me know how you make out!






<b>(</b>It ain't better if it don't work.<b>)</b>

 

[alltaken]

i just rang back the philips hotline and the huy sounded a bit angry.

he said that the company they contracted it out to reported the new screen to have a minor convergence issue. (within specs)

the guy on the hotline called me a "high end user" after i said i was probably pickier than most.

he says they will sort it out so that i am happy with the product but this time he seemed a bit like "leave me alone and stop bothering us" kinda tone and effort.

he told me how to adjust the convergence to get the best results and yes it is a bit better but it still isn't great.
the corners of the monitor are fine!!! the centre is fine but the top and bottom centre are wrong.

in windows xp, the task bar does not have a clean line accross the top of it, but instead has a red line!!! (it is black at the corners but in the centre it is red.

i think that the next bloody monitor i will get is gonna be a LCD or some other type of digital display.

anyway thank for all the help i think i will ring back on wednesday and ask for him to send a guy around to adjust it for me. (he he he i think that philips will lose money on me, they have probably already spent most of my allocated return expenses)

i don't wanna use markup in my signature!!!!

 

[Teq]

Gees... you have patience, I'll give you that... By this time I would be saying "Refund" and looking for a different company to deal with.



<b>(</b>It ain't better if it don't work.<b>)</b>

 

[Teq]

Just wondering, Alltaken... how'd you make out with the monitor???


<b>(</b>It ain't better if it don't work.<b>)</b>

 

[alltaken]

well i adjusted it using the tips from the guy at the help line and it is now much better (the convergence is good in the centre now but the edges are a wee bit fuzzy)

i have a convergence problem still at the centre bottom of the screen but this seems to be only the bottom inch or so of the screen and only in the centre of it at the bottom. (its not a very active area of the screen)

but yes i belive the monitor is within specs so Philips ain't to happy to look at it again.

i have turned the temperature of the monitor down from 9300K to sRGB (i think its less than 5500K )
anyway it makes it much easier on my eyes having it turned down.

i think i can now handle my monitor for another 3 years or so (at which time i will purchase a new computer with a new monitor, whatever the tech is then, probably LCD still without a convergance issue)

but yes thanks for the test patterns!!

Alltaken.
(i havn't replied for ages because of Design School which just started and all the lectures/ assignments take a lot of my time)

i don't wanna use markup in my signature!!!!

 

[Teq]

Sounds like you've got it more or less sorted. It's good to hear you were able to minimize the problems.

It is common for CRT monitors to be a little wonkey around the edges, especially the larger flat screens. There are so many variables in their adjustment that it's almost impossible to get the entire screen perfect. My present monitor is pretty much as good as it gets, but it still has a small spot in the lower right corner I can't straighten out... such is life.

Setting the colours to standard RGB and then manually tweaking the colour balance (if the onscreen menu lets you do that) is definately better than setting it to the deliberate mis-balances they call colour temperatures. (Try retouching photos some day with the colour set to 9300 and see what comes out your printer ... eeeyuck!)

You're welcome for the test patterns. Feel free to share them around if you like.

Enjoy!

<b>(</b>It ain't better if it don't work.<b>)</b>

 

[alltaken]

well i actually came up with my own test patturn for my custom purposes!!!!!

two single lines across the top and bottom of the screen (white lines on black)
about 1.5 cm up and down from the top/bottom
this was to see if the convergance was off the same way at the top and the bottom (e.g if i could see a red line above both of the lines or below both of the lines)

anyway i found that the convergence of the red is wrong (abvoe one line and below the other)

Ahhhhh so many questions , do i bother ringing aagin or do i accept its not gonna be perfect.

p.s. i now want to adjust my colour as you say.

i have the option of r,b,g
how do i standardise my monitor using your test patterns to get the correct balance of colours.

each of the presets seems to have different colour balances e.g 9300K is blueish sRGB is a yellowish colour.

i do a lot of rendering that may need to be printed (so what is the professional standard for this stuff)
it also may effect what my renders look like when viewed on other peoples monitors around the world.

also my monitor has the plugs for r,g,b horizontal, vertical
in what situation would i use these. (i don't see video cards with these outputs)



you have been a real help you know !!!
thanks for all your time

i don't wanna use markup in my signature!!!!

 

[Teq]

Howdy!

Ok, lets take your questions one at a time...

From what you are telling me the red gun is out of line horizontally resulting in the red scan being bigger than the blue or the green. (The purple test pattern should make this fairly obvious). It usually results from the deflection yoke being off center, as we already discussed, but it can also result from some graphics boards that force you to adjust the horizontal centering too far off the middle position. If you have image positioning capability on your video card's drivers, try putting the monitor's horizontal position at center and adjusting the card to compensate. Someplace between adjusting the Card and the Monitor, you may find a spot that minimizes this error. It works sometimes, when the error is minor, but not always in the case of severe errors.

For the colour balance issue... First set the black level as I described --so you can see the inner circle but not the outer one-- then bring up the RGBhigh image. If your video card software has colour adjustment, turn it off. (This should be used only when your monitor doesn't have it) Next go into your monitor's onscreen menu colour adjustments, set them for manual or user adjustment so you can manually tinker with the balances. Individually adjust the red green and blue levels until they display with equal brightness on your screen. Being the picky soul that I am, I tape a piece of white paper to the side of the screen and use it as a "white reference"... stare at the white for a few seconds to "calibrate" your eye and then look at the test pattern. Any variances in brightness between red, green and blue should become fairly obvious. When done correctly the whites should look like paper.

For rendering purposes the goal is to have a monitor that is as colour neutral as possible. Others will see slightly different versions of your work, depending on the adjustment of their monitors but there is nothing you can do about that. As far as I know, there is no published standard for this.

Don't worry about the rgb plugs they're signal inputs that can be used with some high end DVD players and in broadcast or security applications. It's unlikely you will ever use them in computer applications.

As for the question of whether you should call Philips again... Frankly, I'd be terrorizing them by now. An unacceptable product is an unacceptable product, no matter what their specifications say!

I guess I'm lucky, having worked with this stuff so much. I have a KDS VS7I that I am in love with. I bought it knowing full well that I was going to void the warranty on day 1. I took the monitor all apart, painted the case black (I HATE white monitors), re-seated the deflection yoke, installed magnetic correctors, adjusted the convergence, fixed a suspect connection in the horizontal output and then reassembled everything. It's been a joy to work with for 3 years now... but even with all I did there is still a minor convergence error in the lower right corner I couldn't correct. My point is that there is no such thing as a perfect monitor... some things you just gotta ignore.

If you want the ultimate in display accuracy, you're going to need to get into LCD flatpanels. These monitors, by their nature, have no issues with focus, convergence or linearity. Since the colours are produced by fixed location cells in the LCD array, these things can never change or get out of tolerance as they do when you are counting on a magnetic aiming system to land an electron stream within .2mm of the right place, 7" away.

Have you considered getting a refund and going LCD? Most of my customers and friends have them now, NEC seems the best, but just about any LCD with decent response time is going to be better focused and more linear than a CRT based monitor.

In any event... Let me know how you make out!




<b>(</b>It ain't better if it don't work.<b>)</b>

 

[alltaken]

arr frustrated!!!!

i rang them up again to try to get someone to just come around and have a look at it.

and then the guy rang up a local repairer to get them to deal with it.
well the guy from there rang me up and said this.

we sent you a brand new monitor from the box and this was straight from the factory.
well i asked him if they had checked it before sending it out to me or anything.
he said no they don't check them because monitors that are straight from the factory have been adjusted "BEST" by the factory so them adjusting it will not help at all. (what factorys don't adjust them well)

anyway the only alternative he is offering is for another replacement (i don't wan tanother replacement i just want mine to be adjusted to the best of its abilitys)

also he said that once they send out another monitor they will not provide me with any more service in the future. (whats up with that, 3 is the limit HUH)
it made me so angry because he basicly refused to look at it and adjust it. he was saying that if i get another monitor THEY WILL NOT CHECK IT. they will just send me that one and if it is worse than the current one then i am stuck with it PERMINENTLY and i have no way to get this one back even.

i then asked if they would be able to check it to see if it was within SPEC (manufacturers specs) and if it was if they could send it back, at which time i would stop complaining if it was within spec.
but he said no we would only be able to replace it and that if i sent it in for inspection they would send me a new one anyway (just to prove the point that they all had a defect)

arrrgghhh so annoying.
he is sending me the monitor specifications via e-mail tommorow. and i will be able to make a choice after seeing them.

i am just afraid that i will get a monitor back that is worse than this one and be STUCK WITH IT.

what should i do teq.
and how much would it cost if i went and got it adjusted at my own expense??

i don't wanna use markup in my signature!!!!

 

[Teq]

Wow, quite the mess you got going on ...

You could take the monitor to an outside technician, if you can find one who is competent at adjusting these things. It will probably cost you a fair chunk of money to have it done and it absolutely will void your warrantee.

In my local area (Ontario Canada) you would call me in, I would open it up and adjust it with you saying "better, better... worse, better..." until you were satisfied with the display. Although this kind of on-site service was common in the early days of colour television, it's not a very common service today, very few techs will do that. In fact very few techs actually know how.

From your description of the problem, it's probably a fairly simple internal adjustment, one of 4 trimmers usually found on the top of the deflection yoke, I'd bet on paying a 1 1/2 hour's labour to a skilled tech. In my area most techs charge $50cdn per hour so you can get an estimate of the costs from that...

However, I think you've run into a bigger problem...

From the conversation you had, it strikes me like the guy was trying to get around telling you he doesn't know how to adjust your monitor... not wanting to admit that all he does is shuffle boxes for a living.

In your place (and I've been there) I'd be contacting whatever passes for a consumer complaint office in your area, reporting the whole mess and seeking their support in obtaining a refund. It really doesn't matter how good or bad that monitor is anymore, it's now a matter that they are trying to void your warranties in order to escape dealing with what they perceive as a difficult customer. For you this has turned into a mess that may leave you eternally unhappy with your purchase. Lose, lose...

My friend... get your money back and go buy a different monitor... One made by a reputable company like NEC who will give you the kind of customer care you need.

NEC's monitor website is here:
<A HREF="http://www.nmv.co.jp/global/products/products.html" target="_new">http://www.nmv.co.jp/global/products/products.html</A>

Call their customer support line before purchasing, tell them your story and find out what they can/will do for you. I've always found them to be extremely good about these kinds of things, their staff has even read voltage test points to me over the phone.

If it's at all possible, locate a store where you can view the monitors before deciding your purchase. Take the test patterns with you... resolve your decision right down to the serial number... "I want this monitor" not "I want one of these"... Otherwise you risk a repeat of this mess.

Why do I advise this? Well, 10 years ago I got stung just as badly as you appear to have been. I purchased a monitor from a local vendor, previewed and approved it in the store, and went home to wait for the delivery. <i>They sent a different monitor</i> which I later found out had been returned about 4 times by different customers. It worked but it was horrible to look at. I contacted the manufacturer who cheerfully sent me out another monitor... just as bad as the one I had. Like your situation, it rapidly went down hill from there and I ended up stuck with a piece of junk, no warranty and very little hope of recovering the money. I never did get that monitor to work right and was stuck with it for about a year.

So I do know how you feel right about now....


<b>(</b>It ain't better if it don't work.<b>)</b>

 

[alltaken]

ha ha ha the saga continues.

well the guy at the repair shop didn't really want to get involved because he seemed a bit grouchy. (even though i have never been rude while this whole process has continued)

i can home and found 2 messages on my answer machine.

1) hi this is thing from so and so ring me on ########

2) hi this is so and so from philips, we will send an onsight technitian from so and so and he will adjust the monitor onsight for you. if you are still unsatisfied with it we will try to come up with an alternative solution (i presume a TFT LCD screen or somthing). and i will refer you to the cheif of NZ product and consumer satisfaction and quality etc... blah blah blah...

it was rather amussing because it now seems like they just want to stop me from talking crap to people about their products.

ha ha ha it is so ammusing but at least i know where i stand on the issue now!!!!

i certainly hope it can be adjusted to my perfection (e.g so my eyes stop burning)
i don't want it to go any further but would be prepared to if it came to that.

Arrrrrrrr i am a shops worst nightmare!!
(i have a track record of returning things i am not pleased with. e.g they don't work)

set of expensive pens for design school, one didn't work straight from the box--took it back--instant replacement of the pen (great no problems no hassle)

speaker didn't work on my 5.1 channel sound system straight from the box.-- returned for warentee/replacement---well took longer than quoted by about 2-3x (well would have) i complained coz i needed them then--next day new set on my doorstep and $40 cash because while i complained about that i listed that other bad service and the incomplete system build of my PC, all of which i would have ignored if nothing had gone wrong with the RMA thingy)

HDD reported a smart error from onsite test.--brand new havn't returned it yet but will once i order a 120Gb to back up onto i will.

in fact the only thing i have not had a problem with on my PC is the DVD drive. LOL everything else somthing went wrong with it and i have only had this PC for a little over a month.

anyway i know what i expect and go get it!!

thanks for all your help Teq and hopfully this problem ends with this guy coming around next week or so!!

i'll keep ya posted LOL its so rediculus isn't it.

i don't wanna use markup in my signature!!!!

 

[Teq]

WOW!

Well, I certainly do whish you luck with the onsite service visit. Lets hope the guy knows what he's doing inside the monitor.

As for you being their worst nightmare... Naaa... you don't even come close to me. I recently built 14 "econo-pc" boxes for college students in this area. Even before delivering them, I sent about half of the cd-writers back (write errors), returned 2 LCD monitors (dead pixels), got replacements for 3 hard disks (noise) and replaced ALL the keyboards (they were <i>UUUUUGLLLLY</i>) and replaced the fans in every power supply (noise).

Gotta tell you... I'm one lucky stiff, having a good working relationship with several wholesalers... but I sure wouldn't want to be on the customer support line when I call

It all makes me wonder... Do these companies have anyone working in Quality Control or do they just let the warranty returns sort it out for them instead? How many of these bits and pieces actually get tested before shipping?





<b>(</b>It ain't better if it don't work.<b>)</b>

 

[RichardDawson]

i don't know what u guys think but i picked up a viewsonic p225 f, and this seems to be a pretty god damn good monitor. i know it's bigger(20" viewable) and more expensive($609 from newegg.com) but it got damn good ratings in TOM'S crt review. spend the xtra loot and pick up a quality monitor bro. just a thought.

 

[Teq]

Problem is he's already stuck with the Philips. It has a convergence problem that's bothering his eyes, they are giving him the run around and there's no talk of "refund" anywhere in the loop.

But you're right... I've had my hands inside a lot --too many-- monitors and I've always found that monitors made from "ground up" technology such as those of NEC, Viewsonic and KDS are generally better than those from home entertainment companies --Sony, Phillips, etc.-- who are (for the most part) still adjusting focus, convergence and linearity the same way they do on television sets. If you ever saw the actual convergence of a television set (with test patterns) you'd get sick! Even really expensive TV sets have horrible convergence, compared to even a cheap monitor but you don't notice it because you are further away and the images are constantly moving and changing. Obviously with the higher resolutions of modern monitors, television-like tolerances just don't cut it... as our friend found out.







<b>(</b>It ain't better if it don't work.<b>)</b>

 

[alltaken]

he he he yeah my tv (which sits about a meter away from my monitor) has terrible convergence.

But hey i don't expect it to be good and i don't need it to be good. (my tv doesn't hurt my eyes because i don't read text from it)

so why are these other monitors better than Philips or sony. i don't see the difference are they made in a completey different way??

anyway i really like this monitor, it has good colour, good contrast, except i have just been having trouble with the companys trying to be cheap and NOT TEST/ EVEN LOOK AT THE MONITOR when they replace it, basicly they just sent me a new one straight from the box without looking/checking it.

oh well you learn don't you.
i make every bad experience into a good one, because there is a good lesson behind everything.
(i had thought i had choosen a good company/brand of monitor when purchasing it, but i learnt i was wrong)

LOL i kinda think this whole thing is a big laugh (an expensive and time consuming laugh, but it is just so funny how they deal with me all happy one minute and angry the next then all helpfull and happy agian LOL it makes me laugh)

p.s. my monitor cost me about $800 NZD which is about $400 USD so its not suoer expensive but for that price it was the most expensive part in my PC and also enough to buy 2 good quality 17" screens LOL

Alltaken ha ha ha i am laughing the whole time (i tend to laugh at things when other people would normally be getting frustrated and stressed. life is a big joke anyway) ha ha ha ha

 

[Teq]

Why are "gound up" technologies better than "transplanted" technologies?

Ok... Think about corporate inertia and production line methods for a couple of minutes.

A monitor made by a television (consumer electronics) company will be designed much like other monitors, but then the fall prey to they "We've always done it this way" bit on the assembly line, as managers and workers resist new and more difficult adjustment and testing methods. They will continue dropping the Yoke onto the CRT the same way they did with televisions, they will adjust convergence, focus and linearity to standards they are comfortable with, all excused on the "It's good enough for our other products" cop out. But, the same monitor design, made by a computer company, will not suffer that kind of intertia. The staff will be trained by people who know what it takes to make a good computer monitor. The adjustment procedures will be designed (not transplanted) around display quality and the quality control people will be expected to not object to added difficulty in testing. The whole "ground up" thing starts off with no corporate inertia to overcome...

There are also design differences that become apparent. When an engineer accustomed to working with television and home electronics approaches the design of a monitor, he will automatically draw upon principles and technologies he already knows to work. Often bringing television like circuitry into the monitor design without giving it much thought. This doesn't necessarily degrade performance but it can, and sometimes does, fall to compromise based "acceptable standards" rather than "pursuit of excellence". This is less likely to happen with a "ground up" technology becuase standards are set from 0 and not brought in from other projects.

Finally... home electronics companies like Philips, Electrohome, Sony, etc. are famous for their "short cuts" and "cost cutting" and will often substitute parts or leave them out altogether to lower the production cost of the device. This is not a good idea with something as precise as a computer monitor which is actually a high precision instrument.

Sadly, these differences can often be seen right on their display screens.

The first time I ran into this was back in my 2 way Radio repair days. Radio Shack (a consumer electronics distributor) used to sell repackaged Cobra 40 channel CBs. Cobra was a maker of high end marine and industrial communications gear with a reputation for excellence. One day I got the RS and Cobra version open side by side... same circuit board, same chips... but the RS version had a number of missing parts and several parts substitutions that I knew Cobra would never have made on their own. Testing them, the Cobra ran cooler, transmitted further, with far more clarity than the RS one...

So, it's not just monitors...

Anyway, I'm glad you can get a chuckle out of this whole mess...
I sure as heck wouldn't be laughing.



---> <b>Press ALT-F4 for IQ test</b><---

 

[alltaken]

hey hey hey

its me again

well the guy came over and adjusted my monitor correctly.
it didn't take him too long.
he adjusted it as well as possible via the onscreen options (and tech special menus)
and then opened it up to adjust it a bit from the inside.

well its much better than it was before

there is a slight problem still in the MAJOR problem area that i was having last time, but now it is Minimal and within a tolerable level.

the best thing is the problem i was having in other areas of the screen are now pretty much gone. e.g all the corners are good and well converged. when before the righthand side was bad enough that i couldn't read the Winamp playlist writting NOW IS PERFECT.

so basicly the monitor is about 97% perfect and the other 3% isn't too bad.

Thanks for all you help Teq. its much appreciated.

p.s. this technitian says hes been around for about 20 years in the job.
and he recomends
SONY &
PHILIPS

he says SONY are the BEST
and that view sonic are about as good as philips in quality. but also says that Philips is really good because of the customer service they offer.

whats your reply to this one Teq, "Monitor Tech" Vs "Monitor Tech"