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Direct X 11 AGP Card?

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June 9, 2011 5:57:25 PM

Is there going to be an AGP Direct X 11 graphics card? The question has probably been asked tons of times, but what the hell. The thing is, if HIS are mad enough to make a PCI HD5450 (that is the old PCI, not PCI Express), there must be a market for an AGP card supporting direct X11?

More about : direct agp card

a c 144 U Graphics card
June 9, 2011 6:07:03 PM

there is no market. AGP is dead.
a c 358 U Graphics card
June 9, 2011 6:22:10 PM

Nope. As stated, AGP is dead.

The last AGP card from AMD/ATI was in the HD 4xxx series. I don't know about nVidia. PCI graphic cards may still be produced as with the HIS HD 5450, but that's because motherboards still have PCI slots.
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a c 171 U Graphics card
June 10, 2011 2:53:53 AM

there is no point making a slow dx11 card. even a 5450 is not capable of handling dx11 games with useable FPS. Most games still use dx9 and the ones that use dx11 run fine in dx9 mode.
July 11, 2011 9:28:08 PM

HIS IceQ H467QS1GHA Radeon HD 4670 1GB 128-bit DDR3 AGP 4X/8X DirectX 10.1

The naysayers are PCIe users who feel their endless upgrades are at least worth trashing and flaming people who took care of their equipment and whose computers are still around and working well to ask for a small consideration of an AGP upgrade. What about all those people who still want an incandescent light bulb?
a c 358 U Graphics card
July 12, 2011 3:05:53 AM

^^^

That's a DX10.1 card. The original question is for DX11 card.

And I am still using my IBM ThinkPad T40 from mid 2003.
a b U Graphics card
July 12, 2011 3:44:28 AM

intrigue said:
HIS IceQ H467QS1GHA Radeon HD 4670 1GB 128-bit DDR3 AGP 4X/8X DirectX 10.1

The naysayers are PCIe users who feel their endless upgrades are at least worth trashing and flaming people who took care of their equipment and whose computers are still around and working well to ask for a small consideration of an AGP upgrade. What about all those people who still want an incandescent light bulb?



I wouldnt go as far as calling these threads trashing and flaming :) 
I have seen some members be really rude on other threads regarding older equipment

That 4670 is the best card made for AGP

I reluctantly upgraded from my Dual Xeon P4 3.2 IDE/AGP for the reason
first PCIe and Sata is much cheaper than IDE/AGP parts
also I needed more performance than a HD 4670
so I bought a used Dell with LGA775 (COre2Duo 3.0ghz) and now have a HD 5670

with that said
even if they made a DX11 card for AGP it wouldnt be able to use the DX11 effects
I ran 3Dmark11 with my HD 5670
and the only way I could run maxed out DX11 would be at 800x600 resolution which
is ridiculous

so considering that if they did make a DX11 card
they wouldnt make it a higher end card that could really do DX11 anyway

the best bet is a HD 4670 if you dont want to upgrade now
a b U Graphics card
July 12, 2011 2:58:52 PM

I 100% agree with king smp
July 12, 2011 5:51:15 PM

I was merely pointing out the best AGP card right now, was just .9 away from 11, not that the math matters. I do not consider myself a hardware engineer but it is not a stretch of the imagination to envision an AGP card that is still evolving. You might say that the manufacturers are holding back the next version of that card from the market as a business strategy. You could inevitably as price points are falling have a stand alone computer with a few GB's of processor and memory are able to fit on a small corner of real estate on an expansion slot card. As far as the comments go there is no need to express negative comments about someone's point concerning their personal preference for equipment. Yes, I have seen people at other sites attacking someones comment, I just did not want to see the rudness descending to that here at Tom's.
a b U Graphics card
July 12, 2011 6:09:16 PM

Yes, the AGP standard is non-existent, however PCI is still in use; so that's why there was a PCI 5450. AMD stopped producing AGP cards after the 46xx series and nVidia stopped at the 6xxx series.
a b U Graphics card
July 12, 2011 7:08:48 PM

intrigue said:
I was merely pointing out the best AGP card right now, was just .9 away from 11, not that the math matters. I do not consider myself a hardware engineer but it is not a stretch of the imagination to envision an AGP card that is still evolving. You might say that the manufacturers are holding back the next version of that card from the market as a business strategy. You could inevitably as price points are falling have a stand alone computer with a few GB's of processor and memory are able to fit on a small corner of real estate on an expansion slot card. As far as the comments go there is no need to express negative comments about someone's point concerning their personal preference for equipment. Yes, I have seen people at other sites attacking someones comment, I just did not want to see the rudness descending to that here at Tom's.


I sure hope you didnt think I was being negative
I truly appreciate somebody keeping older equipment working
The best way to be "Green" and recycle is to keep older computers
lasting longer instead of throwing them away
I refurbish older Pentium 4 computers either for resale and I also
donate them to people in need (laid off out of work and need to job hunt for example)

So more power to you
I was just commenting that even a relatively modern PCIE card like the HD 5670 isnt
capable of DX11 truly
I hate to say it but the AGP cards is a deadend tech wise
It would be nice for the companies to make a newer tech card AGP
but I dont see that happening
I will say that I had the PCIE HD 4650 and the AGP HD 4670 is stronger than that
You have to understand that a slot like AGP has only so much bandwith
even for example they made a HD 6950 in AGP it would get choked by the limitations
of the AGP slot
That is why they moved on to PCIe since it is a "more powerful" interface
I actually have a PCIe 1.1 slot and I am facing the fact that I cant use the more
powerful 2.1 PCIe cards

July 28, 2011 4:08:47 PM

Blahman11 said:
Is there going to be an AGP Direct X 11 graphics card? The question has probably been asked tons of times, but what the hell. The thing is, if HIS are mad enough to make a PCI HD5450 (that is the old PCI, not PCI Express), there must be a market for an AGP card supporting direct X11?


1) I won't guarantee this actually exists (certainly not at retail yet - note you must order 100 at a time):

ATI Radeon HD5670 1G AGP 1G Video Card

Quick Details
Chipset Manufacturer: ATI Interface Type: AGP Video Memory Capacity: ≥ 1024MB
Video Memory Type: DDR2 Memory Interface: 128 Bit Output Interface Type: TV-OUT, VGA, DVI
Brand Name: OEM Place of Origin: Guangdong China (Mainland) RED: GREEN
Packaging & Delivery
Packaging Detail: 50PCS
Delivery Detail 10Days
Specifications

ATI Radeon HD5670 1G AGP 1G Video Card
Video Memory:1024MB
Interface Type: AGP
Memory Type: DDR2

ATI Radeon HD5670 1G AGP 1G Video Card:

Quality-warranty1year

ATI Radon Card Memory: 1024MB

ATI Radon Card Interface Type: AGP
Interface Speed: 8X
ATI Radon Graphic Card Memory Type: DDR2

ATI Radon Graphic Card Memory Interface: 128-bit
Core Clock: 880MHz
Memory Clock: 5500MHz
RAMDAC: 400 MHz
Stream Processors: 1536 Stream Processing Units
Connectors: Dual DVI; HDMI; 2x MIni-DisplayPort
Max Resolution 2560 x 1600
Support ATI HD3D technology
Support ATI Eyefinity multi-display technology1
Support ATI CrossFireX multi-GPU technology
Support ATI PowerPlay power management technology3
Support Microsoft DirectX 11, Shader Model 5.0 and OpenGL 4.1
Support Microsoft Windows 7, Windows Vista, and Windows XP


DAJIN OEM VIDEO CARD




When I contacted them they did say the picture was wrong (its PCI-e) and they did not have any that I could test.

Note that the AGP hotfix driver lists the following devices in its inf file:

HD 5450, HD 5470, HD 5490
HD 5530, HD 5570
HD 5630, HD 5670, HD 5690
HD 5730

ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series
ATI Radeon HD 5900 Series
AMD Radeon HD 6800 Series

Where the market would buy such a device is another question.





a c 358 U Graphics card
August 2, 2011 2:47:20 PM

The HD 4650 was a mainstream video card when it was 1st released back in 2008. Compared to current generation cards, I would say it is a little faster than the Radeon HD 6450. That's the slowest Radeon HD 6xxx series card. More for playing back videos than it would be for playing games.

See following link for the Radeon's HD 6450's performance which I guess would be close to the HD 4650. Note that your performance will be lower since the testbed uses an Intel Core i7-975 Extreme Edition processor (3.33 GHz, 6.4 GT/s QPI). Also, the HD 4650 does not support Directx 11.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/radeo...

August 2, 2011 3:13:57 PM

Thanks. I totally realize that AGP is useless now but I would really rather not get a new computer right now. I would like to get another 3 to 4 years out of this one. I just want to be able to play the newer games. I just need something that is going to give me the best bang for my buck to play games like Black Ops. Any sugguestions would be greatly appreciated.
a c 358 U Graphics card
August 2, 2011 4:43:05 PM

The best AGP card you can buy is the Radeon HD 4670. There is currently a $20 rebate so it brings the price down to $100.

In terms of performance it is about 30% slower than the HD 5670 and about 40% slower than the HD 6670. But it is the fastest AGP card that you can purchase new.

The HD 5670 / HD 6670 are considered as entry level gaming video card. Due to the performance of the HD 4670, it is considered to be a budget card right now.
August 2, 2011 5:36:51 PM

I was hoping not to spend $100. Maybe I should go with a 512? Considering I have a 128 now that would be a step up.
August 3, 2011 12:22:15 PM

Got a few more questions. Where are you getting your info from as to which card is the best and when it came out? Also if I get the 4670, which you say is DX11 compatible, will it play games that come out using a DX12 or 13 in the future???
a c 358 U Graphics card
August 3, 2011 5:25:33 PM

geauxtigrs said:
Got a few more questions. Where are you getting your info from as to which card is the best and when it came out? Also if I get the 4670, which you say is DX11 compatible, will it play games that come out using a DX12 or 13 in the future???


I never stated the HD 4670 was a DX11 card. In fact, I pointed out in a previous post within this thread that it is only a DX 10.1 card.

DX 10.1 is effectively dead with the release of DX11. DX12 is just rumors and I really doubt it will come out anytime soon. The HD 4670 is already a weak card compared to what is currently available. By the time DX12 comes out it might be possible that AMD will have an integrated graphics core that more powerful than the HD 4670. That's not too far off the mark since the Radeon HD 6620G graphics core in the Llano APUs are almost as powerful as a desktop HD 5570 video card.

There are no DX11 AGP cards in the market except the alleged HD 5670 from a Chinese manufacturer as mentioned above in this thread. If it is true, then you will need to order at least 100 of them since they are a manufacturer, not a retailer.
August 3, 2011 6:09:57 PM

So if I buy the 4670 will it play games that use DX11? If not is there a software update that will allow me to play them? I don't want to buy a card that will be outdated in two months. I would like to get at least three to four years out of it.
I remember the good ole days when a new direct x came out you just installed it and that was it. You didn't need another video card.
a c 140 U Graphics card
August 3, 2011 7:21:49 PM

Most (if not all) games that support DX11 also support DX10 (and DX10.1); which the HD4xxx series cards can use (and assuming you're running either Vista or Windows 7). For whatever games you're wanting to play, check the MINIMUM system requirements. If it lists Windows XP (only up to DX9.0c support) for an OS, you're safe. If it lists anything below an HD5xxx series card (up to DX10.x support), you're safe.

-Wolf sends
August 3, 2011 7:34:47 PM

your problem is that a HD 4670 is already outdated.
You will not be able to run DX11 games on it, it maxes out at DX10.1
if you want to run DX11 games you will have to upgrade to a dual core processor anyway, so I know you do not want to here this but I can say this AGP is dead.
To run modern games most require a dual core processor witch most dual core processor systems come with PCIe x16 or PCIe 2.0. witch all modern graphics cards require. except for the entry level PCI cards witch are only good for watching videos at best not modern gaming.
I know you want to extend the life of your system but it has served you well for this long, time to let it rest.
the cost of upgrading to a new computer is a lot lower than when your current system was built. and you could build an entry lvl gaming machine for around $600 to $700 with the new llamo APU processors from AMD with graphics on the same die as the processor.

I guess you want to be green but you could donate your old computer to a family member or someone else in need and get a decent locost gaming machine that will last you another 3-5 years.

Realize most computers have a life expectancy of 3 years, upgrades can take them a lttle farther but when it coes to gaming with modern games that just is not possible.
a b U Graphics card
August 3, 2011 9:30:28 PM

actually you can build an entry level gaming machine for $500 USD
with a decent GPU easily
Toms did a nice I3-2100 build for $500 on US Newegg
a b U Graphics card
August 3, 2011 9:31:35 PM

I didnt want to give up my old AGP/IDE machine either
but I had to face the fact it was too outdated to do what I needed it to do
plus the price of AGP and IDE parts are ridiculous compared to the newer parts
a c 358 U Graphics card
August 4, 2011 1:34:07 AM

geauxtigrs said:
So if I buy the 4670 will it play games that use DX11? If not is there a software update that will allow me to play them? I don't want to buy a card that will be outdated in two months. I would like to get at least three to four years out of it.
I remember the good ole days when a new direct x came out you just installed it and that was it. You didn't need another video card.


DX11 requires specific hardware in the graphics core that the HD 4670 lacks. The is no software that can emulate DX11. If there were, then trust me when I say it performance to your CPU will be relatively large.

The HD 4670 is already outdated. As stated in a previous post, the HD 4670 is about 30% less powerful than the HD 5670 and about 40% less powerful than the HD 6670. That places this particular video card at just a little bit more powerful than the HD 5570. The HD 5570 is not considered a gaming card; more like a powerful multimedia card for watching movies and maybe some lite gaming. The HD 5670 is considered not powerful enough to run DX11 games.

DX9 is not going anywhere anytime soon. That is because Windows XP represented about 52% of the total install base for all Windows operating systems as of December 2010. Windows Vista represented about 25% and Windows 7 about 20% of the total install base for Windows. The remainder is made up of Windows 98, Windows ME and Windows 2K. Of course the percentage has gone up in favor of Windows 7 since then, but not substantially.

Since it seems most potential casual gamer still are on Windows XP, and the fact that many PC games are just ports of console games, DX9 will still be around for a while.

If you want to play DX11 games, then you are just going to have to save up more money to buy a completely new computer.
a c 358 U Graphics card
August 4, 2011 1:39:15 AM

Just so that it is clear... I would assume you know that you must have Windows Vista or Windows 7 to play a DX11 game.

Windows XP only supports up to DX9 so if you wanted to play a game like Just Cause 2 on a Windows XP computer, then you will not be able to since the developer decided to totally drop DX9 support for that game.

a b U Graphics card
August 4, 2011 1:52:47 AM

also I dont think an AGP bus has enough bandwidth to handle the power of a DX11 card
the main reason for the switch from AGP to PCIe (and PCIe going from x4 to x16)
was to handle the data transfer rates
the DX11 card would be bottlenecked by the limits of the AGP capablities
August 4, 2011 11:59:59 AM

I thought you were telling me that the 4670 is the AGP card to get. Should I get the 5670 or the 6670 instead? Let's say you are me and completely stubborn and not willing to upgrade to a new computer. Which AGP card would any of you get to be able to play the newer games like Black Ops?
a c 140 U Graphics card
August 4, 2011 12:30:30 PM

There is no such thing as an AGP HD5670 or HD6670. King SMP was simply making performance comparisons, due to the age of the HD4670. If you are dead set on keeping your current computer, get the AGP HD4670.

-Wolf sends
August 4, 2011 1:09:42 PM

What about getting the 4650 compared to the 4670? Newegg claims the 4650 supports DX 10.1 and it is almost $30 cheaper.
a c 140 U Graphics card
August 4, 2011 1:15:20 PM

See JaguarSKX's post above concerning the HD4650.

-Wolf sends
August 4, 2011 1:37:10 PM

Yeah I read that. Let's just say I want to play a game like Black Ops. I have the option of spending $70 on the 4650 or $120 on the 4670. Would you still go with the 4670? I'm leaning toward the 4650. Would a game like Black Ops not play well on the 4650?
a c 140 U Graphics card
August 4, 2011 3:59:49 PM

Not having ever played Black Ops, I can only guess that neither card will play that game "well". The HD4670 will probably play a little bit better than the HD4650, but regardless of what card you get, you'll still probably have to turn down/off some in game options and lower the gaming resolution to get acceptable frame rates.

-Wolf sends
August 4, 2011 4:13:58 PM

Thanks. That was very helpful. I think I'll go with the 4650 because I don't think "a little bit better" is worth the extra $40.
a b U Graphics card
August 4, 2011 5:27:27 PM

What socket type is the MOBO you have with the AGP slot ??? --- FOr the money you are going to spend on the high end AGP card for the performance you are going to get -- you'd be better off getting a MOBO with a PCI-e slot and same socket type that you have (if they made them) and a PCI-e card since decent AGP card are selling at much higher prices than comparable or better PCI-e cards and you should be able to find an older socket MOBO with a PCI-e slot instead of AGP fairly cheap.

It is a waste to spend top dollar on an AGP card that is not going to be able to play the newer games anyway when you could possibly (depending on your current system) get a MOBO and GPU for about the same $ or slightly more and get something that can last you a bit longer. (for the same $100 you'd spend on the AGP 4670 you could get a $50 MOBO and $50 PCI-e card that performs better than the 4670 !!)
August 4, 2011 5:53:35 PM

You guys have been most helpful. I think I'm going to go with the 4650 which is $60 and use the rest of the money to upgrade the RAM on my computer. My computer is currently at 512mb and I want to upgrade to 2gb. Plus the current video card I have is the 9800 Pro which is 128 mb with half the clock speed of the 4650. I know they are older games but I can play Half Life 2 and Far Cry with the current card with no problems. Hopefully the difference from what I have now will be noticeable enough to where I don't wish I had gotten the 4670. Once again thanks for all of your help.
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