RipJaw a lot better? or Ares just as good?

[sherlockwing]

Hi, I came across this article when researching on whether I should get 4X4G 16G pack of Ares or RipJaw.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/308402-30-skill-ripjaws-skill-ares

One thing that I do NOT like with the Ares is G.SKILL's recommended VCCIO/VCCSA voltage of 1.25v. On the SB-E/SB it's not recommended you exceed 1.20v, 1.00v is default, and >1.35v is proven to degrade the SB-E/SB CPU permanently. In contrast the new lines of Corsair are all tested with 1.10v with XMP.

First, personally I wouldn't buy anything (MOBO, RAM, SSD, HDD, etc) until the IB CPU is available AND then I would wait and let the (Guinea Pigs) Early Adopters work-out most all of the bugs and wait until there's at least one or better (2) BIOS revisions before buying!

Ares = Bad

Ripjaws X & Z = Good

IB = Get one of these kits - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007611%20600006069%20600006127&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&CompareItemList=147%7C20-145-345%5E20-145-345-TS%2C20-231-445%5E20-231-445-TS%2C20-233-144%5E20-233-144-05%23%2C20-233-180%5E20-233-180-TS%2C20-233-147%5E20-233-147-TS

In the June System builder marathon: the following was said about "Ares = Bad":

For less than $60, G.Skill’s Ares-series DDR3-1600 C8 dual-channel 8 GB kit adds a performance kick to low-profile memory. This is probably the company’s best-kept secret, since our testing has shown similar overclocking capabilities between its Ares and better-known Ripjaws X modules.

So is which side is correct?

 

[kleinkinstein]

The ARES is a DIMM kit targeted towards the new Intel Z77 chipset, but let’s not forget that the low profile of the memory makes this ideal for HTPC and other small form factor computers. Of course, for those with massive heatsinks, the ARES is a true blessing. Spec wise the my Ares is similar to the other high-end memory produced by G.Skill, with a rated speed of 2133MHz @1.65v and CAS Latency of 9-11-10 2T. Inside the ARES is powered by the high-end Hynix H5TQ2G83CFR synchronous DDR3 modules.

Since the G.Skill ARES is compatible with Intel XMP, setting up the speeds was extremely easy. By default the ARES will start up at 1600MHz, but it’s just a matter of increasing the speed in the bios (if your motherboard is XMP compatible) to 2133MHz. In case you don’t have a motherboard that shows XMP settings, you’ll also need to change the voltage from the standard 1.5v to 1.65v. And thanks to its built-in XMP settings and lifetime warranty, the ARES is an easy recommendation. So if you’re looking for high performance memory with a low profile, enough for your gigantic heatsink to sit with ease, look no further than the G.Skill ARES.

 

[sherlockwing]

The ARES is a DIMM kit targeted towards the new Intel Z77 chipset, but let’s not forget that the low profile of the memory makes this ideal for HTPC and other small form factor computers. Of course, for those with massive heatsinks, the ARES is a true blessing. Spec wise the my Ares is similar to the other high-end memory produced by G.Skill, with a rated speed of 2133MHz @1.65v and CAS Latency of 9-11-10 2T. Inside the ARES is powered by the high-end Hynix H5TQ2G83CFR synchronous DDR3 modules.

Since the G.Skill ARES is compatible with Intel XMP, setting up the speeds was extremely easy. By default the ARES will start up at 1600MHz, but it’s just a matter of increasing the speed in the bios (if your motherboard is XMP compatible) to 2133MHz. In case you don’t have a motherboard that shows XMP settings, you’ll also need to change the voltage from the standard 1.5v to 1.65v. And thanks to its built-in XMP settings and lifetime warranty, the ARES is an easy recommendation. So if you’re looking for high performance memory with a low profile, enough for your gigantic heatsink to sit with ease, look no further than the G.Skill ARES.

Yeah, I am thinking about getting these : G.SKILL Ares Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) F3-1600C9Q-16GAB . CL9 and DDR3-1600, they will be on a ASRock Extreme 4 Mobo and under a mammoth Phantek PH-TC14PE Cooler(thus I decide to get all 16G at the start instead of getting 8 then upgrading later). I figured at since Ares is priced at 86.99 I have no need to get the 87.99 RipJaw X, the 89.99 Sniper or the 91.99 Corsair Vengeance if there is no noticeable performance difference.

 

[smorizio]

the first person you linked to I dont know who posted it but he was talking about the system cpu voltages ( VCCIO/VCCSA).
most people like me and you are not going to change the cpu voltage and burn your cpu out. your going to leave it set to auto.
and installing brand x over brand y not going to change the cpu voltage. the older drams that are 1.65v will shorten the life of the older sb memory controller that built into the cpu. most of the new ram now is 1.5v or less. vendors like samsung now have gone to smaller and smaller dram chips that are using less and less power. the newest ddr3 is 1.24v soon ddr-4 will be hitting the market. it on samasung web page that there making server memory now for ddr-4.

 

[sherlockwing]

Best answer selected by sherlockwing.

 

[jaquith]

Well I know the 'first person' quoted very well.

The XMP Profiles (version dependent) set more than the DRAM Frequency, CAS Timings and DRAM Voltage, the XMP can also set the VCCIO/VCCSA and PLL Voltages.

The problem with many of the G.SKILL Ares line is that many of the kits set (or require for stability) the VCCIO/VCCSA to 1.25v which exceeds, oddly enough, even G.SKILL's own recommendation of a 1.20v max safe limit. Higher VCCIO/VCCSA (CPU's IMC) Voltage have been proven for quite sometime to Degrade your CPU. VCCIO/VCCSA in excess of 1.35v can Degrade your CPU in a matter of hours or days, lowering it between 1.25v-1.35v simply takes it longer.

My recommendations on the Ares upon it's release (before IB) through now haven't changed. The Ares's IC's requiring higher VCCIO/VCCSA illustrate a poor (cheap) IC.

 

[gskill support]

Well I know the 'first person' quoted very well.

The XMP Profiles (version dependent) set more than the DRAM Frequency, CAS Timings and DRAM Voltage, the XMP can also set the VCCIO/VCCSA and PLL Voltages.

The problem with many of the G.SKILL Ares line is that many of the kits set (or require for stability) the VCCIO/VCCSA to 1.25v which exceeds, oddly enough, even G.SKILL's own recommendation of a 1.20v max safe limit. Higher VCCIO/VCCSA (CPU's IMC) Voltage have been proven for quite sometime to Degrade your CPU. VCCIO/VCCSA in excess of 1.35v can Degrade your CPU in a matter of hours or days, lowering it between 1.25v-1.35v simply takes it longer.

My recommendations on the Ares upon it's release (before IB) through now haven't changed. The Ares's IC's requiring higher VCCIO/VCCSA illustrate a poor (cheap) IC.

The first post, misconception of Ares series needing high VCCIO/VCCSA, using cheap IC, is all incorrect.

It was all a misunderstanding where the Ares series "enable XMP" guide showed VCCIO/VCCSA at a higher voltage, because the guide was for a high capacity DDR3-2133 kit. We wanted to show how to enable XMP on a particular motherboard, but people thought it meant "this is how you configure this memory".

To clarify, no matter what ICs used, DDR3-1600 will not need VCCIO/VCCSA increase. Only high capacity 32GB, extreme frequency DDR3-2133 kits will need VCCIO/VCCSA voltage increase. If the kit requires it, it will have XMP 1.3 to adjust it. Otherwise, lower kits like DDR3-1600 8GB, will just need XMP 1.2 since the memory controller does not need adjustment.

In addition, a high VCCIO/SA does not degrade a CPU if the actual voltage is being used. As with any voltage, you should supply the correct amount to avoid over/under voltage, that can cause problems. Since not everyone is an advanced/extreme overclocker, we recommend 1.20V max, but for pushing limits, you know a much higher voltage is used, but that is perfectly fine as long as the CPU is properly cooled. Of course it should only be attempted by those that know exactly what they are doing, or a higher risk of possible CPU damage is involved.

For any further questions or clarifications needed, feel free to contact us directly.

Thank you
GSKILL SUPPORT

 

[jaquith]

The first post, misconception of Ares series needing high VCCIO/VCCSA, using cheap IC, is all incorrect.

Example the G.SKILL Ares F3-1866C9Q-16GAB
G.SKILL's Guide - https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=17VKzOB5CL5EtIelw5tGsj2CqjBk3O0OU5VPe6CUoFso
I quote from the G.SKILL's Guide: "Step.4
Set the CPU VCCSA Voltage = [Manual Mode]
And adjust the CPU VCCSA Manual Voltage = [1.250] "
ref - http://www.gskill.com/products.php?index=485

G.KILL's Admin:

In addition for long term CPU lifespan and reduction of draw and heat considerations VCCSA and VTT value of 1.100 are advised. When exceeding 1600 speeds 1.150 to 1.200 may be required for 1866+ it is strongly advised you attempt lower operating voltage levels first and if all possible maintain 1.100 as your maximum. Considerations for defining and maintain a 1.200 can be considered but are still under analysis currently ASUS has reached frequencies in excess of 2800 in full 8 DIMM population when the quality of the IMC is high. Highest DRAM scaling has been achieved with 1.300 to 1.400 with currently no signs of issues until more analysis is completed though it is still only advised to use up to a maximum of 1.200v with an ideal recommendation for 1.100

ref - http://www.gskill.us/forum/showthread.php?p=56501

As an extreme OC'er I know what voltages have killed or degraded the SB/SB-E/IB in both ES and Consumer CPU's, and I wish temperatures stopped Electromigration but it doesn't.

It was all a misunderstanding where the Ares series "enable XMP" guide showed VCCIO/VCCSA at a higher voltage, because the guide was for a high capacity DDR3-2133 kit. We wanted to show how to enable XMP on a particular motherboard, but people thought it meant "this is how you configure this memory".

Please next time know your own products, the one above is a lower frequency DDR3-1866 kit.

To clarify, no matter what ICs used, DDR3-1600 will not need VCCIO/VCCSA increase. Only high capacity 32GB, extreme frequency DDR3-2133 kits will need VCCIO/VCCSA voltage increase. If the kit requires it, it will have XMP 1.3 to adjust it. Otherwise, lower kits like DDR3-1600 8GB, will just need XMP 1.2 since the memory controller does not need adjustment.

I've seen the G.SKILL kits with the pre XMP v1.3 fail and particularly those used with LGA 2011. Unfortunately, the solution is indeed to increase the VCCIO/VCCSA, but I will only advise up to a 1.20v max and further I recommend trying 1.10v first. The problem has been stability and in most every instance I've seen or been a part of the result was an RMA or Exchange.

In addition, a high VCCIO/SA does not degrade a CPU if the actual voltage is being used. As with any voltage, you should supply the correct amount to avoid over/under voltage, that can cause problems. Since not everyone is an advanced/extreme overclocker, we recommend 1.20V max, but for pushing limits, you know a much higher voltage is used, but that is perfectly fine as long as the CPU is properly cooled. Of course it should only be attempted by those that know exactly what they are doing, or a higher risk of possible CPU damage is involved.

This is completely wrong, it has been proven that either or a high VCCSA and or high vCore absolutely will degrade your SB/SB-E/IB CPU regardless of temperatures. There have been numerous SB-E on LN2 with a VCCSA of 1.35v that have degraded in less than a day.

For any further questions or clarifications needed, feel free to contact us directly.

Thank you
GSKILL SUPPORT

If you want to discuss this more contact me (PM), or simply (select better) IC's. If you look at my 1000's of posts you'll see they're filled with G.SKILL kit recommendations, just not the Ares or any of G.SKILL's kits that do not require high VCCIO/VCCSA.

You're interested in Selling stuff -- I'm interested in Saving folks from problems. Further, I only talk out of one side of my mouth. I like most G.SKILL kits, but please don't get me to second guess that feeling. Fix your stuff and we'll all be happy.

 

[sherlockwing]

jaquith, so if I ask you for a 4X4G 16G CL9 DDR3 1600 Ram set, would you recommend the RipJaw X, Sniper or Vegenance low profile?

If spending an extra $1-$5 can save me from future trouble with the Rams I definately wouldn't mind.

Processor is i5-3570K(IB) and Mobo is ASRock Extreme 4, Cooler is PH-TC14PE(unlike the NH-D14 I couldn't find a "Ram clearance" list for it).

 

[jaquith]

Frankly, my favorite kits are the DDR3L-1600 kits; they can operate at either 1.35v or 1.50v (dual voltage). All of the DDR3L's are the newest IC's regardless of who's PCB's they're installed on.

The following that will work are the:
G.SKILL's:
F3-12800CL9Q-16GBXM - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231478
F3-12800CL9Q-16GBSR1 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231480
(per feedback the guy's right, Intel or newer FX AMD)

Otherwise two kits of:
Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 8GB (2 x 4GB) Model 996988 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226184
Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) Model CML8GX3M2A1600C9W - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233199

Assuming the Z77 Extreme4 (black) either the Mushkin 996988 or G.SKILL F3-12800CL9Q-16GBSR1.

The Phanteks PH-TC14PE is going to have similar clearance issues as the NH-D14 so stick with Low Profile (LP) RAM.

ref - http://www.kitguru.net/components/henry-butt/phanteks-ph-tc14pe-vs-noctua-nh-d14-cpu-cooler-review/4/

 

[sherlockwing]

Frankly, my favorite kits are the DDR3L-1600 kits; they can operate at either 1.35v or 1.50v (dual voltage). All of the DDR3L's are the newest IC's regardless of who's PCB's they're installed on.

The following that will work are the:
G.SKILL's:
F3-12800CL9Q-16GBXM - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231478
F3-12800CL9Q-16GBSR1 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231480
(per feedback the guy's right, Intel or newer FX AMD)

Otherwise two kits of:
Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 8GB (2 x 4GB) Model 996988 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226184
Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) Model CML8GX3M2A1600C9W - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233199

Assuming the Z77 Extreme4 (black) either the Mushkin 996988 or G.SKILL F3-12800CL9Q-16GBSR1.

The Phanteks PH-TC14PE is going to have similar clearance issues as the NH-D14 so stick with Low Profile (LP) RAM.

http://www.kitguru.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/IMG_8508-300x200.jpg
ref - http://www.kitguru.net/components/henry-butt/phanteks-ph-tc14pe-vs-noctua-nh-d14-cpu-cooler-review/4/

Thanks for the recommendation, but what is the advantage of Dual Voltage?

I am currently looking at these:
Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) CML16GX3M4A1600C9B

G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) F3-12800CL9Q-16GBXL

G.SKILL Sniper Gaming Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) F3-12800CL9Q-16GBSR

Are those good enough and what do I gain from getting the dual voltage versions?
p.s What makes Sniper series different from Ripjaw?

p.s thanks for the photo.

 

[jaquith]

Less voltage is better long-term for the CPU, and since I OC it's one less strain of the CPU. I'm using (32GB 8x4GB) two sets of the Corsair Vengeance CMZ16GX3M4X1600C9G; CPU-z - http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2320509

Any of those you listed will work fine and not cause an issue. I'm not concerned about a DRAM Voltage of 1.50v it's a preference thing only.