By how much have graphics card progressed?

[Gulli]

This is not a specific problem, I was just thinking about when they would release the PS4 and Xbox 1080 (yes, it would be 1080, not 720) and it got me thinking. What would the graphics on such systems be like? The Xbox 360 and PS3 use derivatives of the Radeon X1950 and GT 7800 GPUs respectively and modern GPUs are definitely much more powerful than those, but do keep in mind the new GPUs would have to fit inside physically the consoles, as well as their PSU and cooling system, and oh yeah, if a console costs $1000 nobody will buy it, so those reasons rule out HD 7990 or GT 680 fun. Something like derivatives of an HD 7750, GT 650 or mobile graphics would be more realistic, but I'm not 100% sure about those, so correct me if I'm wrong.

The point is most console games these days run at 600p or 720p, usually without any AA and sometimes with framerate issues, while new consoles will be expected to run everything at 1080p, with 2xAA (yes, you do notice the difference) and without framerate issues. These improvements alone will take up a lot of GPU muscle, so I wonder how much room will be left for actual improvements to shaders, texture sizes and technologies that haven't been invented yet? Would this mean that a state of the art console would in many ways be less powerful than a moderate custom built PC? Would it mean that we've already pretty much seen the maximum attainable graphics of the new generation of consoles (which may be released in 2012 or 2013) on PC games coming out in 2011 (Battlefield 3, Crysis2)?

 

[Gulli]

[

 

[bystander]

Just a couple notes about your thoughts.
The point is most console games these days run at 600p or 720p, usually without any AA and sometimes with framerate issues, while new consoles will be expected to run everything at 1080p, with 2xAA (yes, you do notice the difference) and without framerate issues.

You may be correct on them starting to use AA levels, which would be great for PC gamers, as the ports will be more like PC games, but you are naive to think they won't have frame rate issues occasionally. Dev's will always push the limits of what ever system they develop for. If that system is more powerful, it doesn't mean they won't cross the line, it just means that line has moved.

One major advantage a console will have over a PC system built around the same time, is that the console system always has the same basic system. They get to develop at the hardware level, rather than at the API level that PC games use. This means their console game engines are much more refined for specific hardware and they will get more out of the same hardware because they don't have to account for 100's and 1000's of different configurations.

 

[Gulli]

Just a couple notes about your thoughts.
The point is most console games these days run at 600p or 720p, usually without any AA and sometimes with framerate issues, while new consoles will be expected to run everything at 1080p, with 2xAA (yes, you do notice the difference) and without framerate issues.

You may be correct on them starting to use AA levels, which would be great for PC gamers, as the ports will be more like PC games, but you are naive to think they won't have frame rate issues occasionally. Dev's will always push the limits of what ever system they develop for. If that system is more powerful, it doesn't mean they won't cross the line, it just means that line has moved.

One major advantage a console will have over a PC system built around the same time, is that the console system always has the same basic system. They get to develop at the hardware level, rather than at the API level that PC games use. This means their console game engines are much more refined for specific hardware and they will get more out of the same hardware because they don't have to account for 100's and 1000's of different configurations.

What I was trying to say was that any existing (in 2011) console game would have to run at 1080p, with 2xAA and no framerate issues, this gives you a measure of how much more powerful the GPU would have to be, before any actual new technologies in future games would come into play. Yes, consoles are somewhat more efficient but that can't turn a HD 7750 into a HD 7970. So I'm afraid the next gen consoles won't be revolutionary to someone owning a decent custom built PC, which means we won't see many revolutionary (in a technical way) games for many years to come.

 

[bystander]

There is a lot of extra overhead with PC games. A lot. Every operation goes through a middleman from Windows which does not allow programs to directly access hardware. This means that once the graphics engines are refined on a console, they can get the same performance on quite a bit slower hardware than a PC game system.

 

[Gulli]

There is a lot of extra overhead with PC games. A lot. Every operation goes through a middleman from Windows which does not allow programs to directly access hardware. This means that once the graphics engines are refined on a console, they can get the same performance on quite a bit slower hardware than a PC game system.

I sure hope so, otherwise things will get pretty boring. But what's your prediction? What kind of performance do you think they'll squeeze out of those new consoles?

 

[bystander]

My only prediction is most people will ooh and ahh. It maybe that the top of the line gaming computers are still out performing the new consoles, but the consoles will likely have a better selection of games fast.

 

[Gulli]

My only prediction is most people will ooh and ahh. It maybe that the top of the line gaming computers are still out performing the new consoles, but the consoles will likely have a better selection of games fast.

Define "top of the line"? An HD 6950 can be had for $230 today...

 

[bystander]

I'd predict that crossfire and sli systems will still outperform a new console. This is only a guess. I have a feeling new consoles would have similar performance to something like a 6950, but without as good of an interface in many cases. A mouse is very handy, although kenict is also a nice interface for some types of games.

 

[Gulli]

I'd predict that crossfire and sli systems will still outperform a new console. This is only a guess. I have a feeling new consoles would have similar performance to something like a 6950, but without as good of an interface in many cases. A mouse is very handy, although kenict is also a nice interface for some types of games.

The HD 6950 will be sold second hand for $100 by 2012/2013... by then there will be 7950s or even 8950s for $250, so the consoles just can't catch up with the PC anymore.