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Upgrade from HD 5770 (WoW + +)

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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June 28, 2011 1:36:23 PM

Unfortunately it has been a while since I have built a high end gaming machine and I am not up to date on the latest graphics technologies. On top of that I can't find information relative to what I need because no one rates video cards on their performance in World of Warcraft (and rightly so). WoW performance is very important to me, but bear in mind that I will occasionally pick up a copy of a newer First Person Shooter that I can play on Mid-High settings.

Approximate Purchase Date: Immediately
Budget Range: $500.00
Games: World of Warcraft (Need great FPS on max 1920x1200) / Newer First Person Shooter Games @ 1920x1200**

CURRENT SETUP
GPU: XFX Radeon 5770 Juniper XT
PSU: 500W Thermaltake PSU (Not sure the exact model, but assume it doesn't have the juice or the connectors)
CPU: Core i5 2500K (Not overclocked yet)
Motherboard: Asus P8P67 Pro
Memory: 8GB DDR3 @ 1333MHz
Case: Cooler Master HAF 932 running on air (I am fairly certain it will house any card size)
Monitor: Dell UltraSharpTM U2410 @ 1920 x 1200***

Newegg is my preferred source for computer components although I will consider other reputable online services.
Leaning toward ATI (Impressed with their 58xx roundup****).
I usually buy XFX for double lifetime warranty.
It is possible that I will overclock the CPU to some extent. Crossfire or SLI is a definite upgrade possibility.
Please be detailed and explain your response. Thanks in advance for all the help!

** Although I would definitely love to be able to play newer games on beautiful settings @ 1920x1200, my main concern is the relatively weak graphical challenges WoW presents. In other words I want max spell detail, view distance, and all eye candy turned up so I can play near 100 FPS in competitive arena.

*** This is the monitor I intend to buy. I have the choice of using my 500 dollar budget to buy this monitor or upgrade PSU and video card, but I don't think my current setup will max WoW on 1920x1200. It has occasional lag on 1680x1050! However, this will be a near future upgrade so consider this the resolution I will be playing at.

*****I want a new generation card. NOT a 58xx!

More about : upgrade 5770 wow

June 28, 2011 2:13:37 PM

First I'd like to say thanks for that quick reply! I was actually considering an HD6950 so I could possibly upgrade to crossfire HD6950's down the road. Don't forget that a new power supply is most definitely going to be needed. I doubt my 500W has the juice and I know it doesn't have the connections I need.

Any idea what kind of performance I can expect in World of Warcraft with all eye candies turned up at 1920x1200 using a single HD6950?
a b U Graphics card
a b Ý World of Warcraft
June 28, 2011 2:16:16 PM

WOW prefers Nvidia to AMD cards but its doesn't need huge GPU power anyway so on your budget whatever you get sahould be better than it needs. If you spent your whole $500 you are loking at either 2 x 560Ti in SLi or 2 x 6950 (1Gb) in Crossfire but are very powerful from what I can tell the AMd 6950s are a bit better overall but some games prefer the Nvidia cards.
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June 28, 2011 2:24:19 PM

So you're thinking a 750W PSU can pump out the juice for two HD6950's in Crossfire? I don't want to get totally side-tracked here, but let's pretend for a moment that I want to overclock my CPU to 4GHz.
June 28, 2011 2:29:52 PM

Now you've given me some good information on performance in much newer games, but any ideas what I am looking at in WoW running a single HD6950? If I choose to upgrade to dual cards later I want to know how well it will do.
June 28, 2011 2:49:04 PM

Battlefield 3 is a game I might end up playing, but I am hoping that I can get away with one HD6950 for a while so I can upgrade my PSU without breaking the bank and then come back for the second HD6950 later. How does dual HD6950's compare with a GTX590 or HD6990? It's not my goal to just blow these out of the water, but for the price of two HD6950's I am hoping to be within 80% of their performance range.

I will definitely go with the 2GB cards as you suggested. Do dual cards still share the memory of one card these days or is that an idea that I just made up in my imagination?
a c 216 U Graphics card
a b Ý World of Warcraft
June 28, 2011 2:58:36 PM

A couple things. WoW no longer has favors Nvidia like it did before Catacombs. At least all the benchmarks I see have them very close. Example: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-gtx-...

The 6950 and 560ti are very close to the same in cost and performance in WoW. Either would be fine.

One other thing to consider when reading benchmarks on WoW. The benchmarks are always done in out of the way locations without people so they can get a more consistent benchmark, but it also makes it impossible to know what performance you will get in demanding locations.

Arenas, as far as I remember (I haven't played arena since BC), aren't very hard on your graphics card, so you might take that into consideration.

A 6950 would be a great card, I'm sure.
a b U Graphics card
a b Ý World of Warcraft
June 28, 2011 3:29:04 PM

Going from a 5770 the performance will be unbelievable I can play Metro on highest settings without the AA on 2 x 4870s which are not as good as a single 6870, that is at 1920x1080.
June 28, 2011 3:47:41 PM

From my understanding the 5770 is a much weaker card than the 4870. Why can't ATI have a legitimate and easy to understand naming scheme like Nvidia? It's difficult enough to decide on what card you want/need without their naming gimmicks.

Does anyone have any benchmarks for WoW: Cataclysm running in DirectX 11? According to that article they ran the tests in DX9 and expect a big performance leap with DX11.

There is a certain smoothness to my game occasionally that just makes it absolutely wonderful, but it is by no means all the time and never when in combat. I want to do away with any drops in FPS.
a c 216 U Graphics card
a b Ý World of Warcraft
June 28, 2011 4:04:00 PM

wardler said:
From my understanding the 5770 is a much weaker card than the 4870. Why can't ATI have a legitimate and easy to understand naming scheme like Nvidia? It's difficult enough to decide on what card you want/need without their naming gimmicks.

Does anyone have any benchmarks for WoW: Cataclysm running in DirectX 11? According to that article they ran the tests in DX9 and expect a big performance leap with DX11.

There is a certain smoothness to my game occasionally that just makes it absolutely wonderful, but it is by no means all the time and never when in combat. I want to do away with any drops in FPS.


The 5770 should be almost the same as a 4870 in performance.

A 480 is about the same as a 570 in performance.

I don't know what you expect. Of course the 5000 to the 6000 series did through a curve ball in there.
June 28, 2011 4:10:50 PM

A 480 and a 570 may be similar in performance, but they are two different classes. It's easy to understand that if you go up a generation and drop a class that you may get similar performance, but what if you go up a generation and choose the same class: you would expect to get better performance. ATI makes it hard to understand what class you are buying. It's understandable, but seriously if you are a reputable company, you should make things clear as crystal.

Just a side note: I felt sorry for people buying a 6870 thinking it was the next 5870.
a c 216 U Graphics card
a b Ý World of Warcraft
June 28, 2011 4:15:26 PM

wardler said:
A 480 and a 570 may be similar in performance, but they are two different classes. It's easy to understand that if you go up a generation and drop a class that you may get similar performance, but what if you go up a generation and choose the same class: you would expect to get better performance. ATI makes it hard to understand what class you are buying. It's understandable, but seriously if you are a reputable company, you should make things clear as crystal.

Just a side note: I felt sorry for people buying a 6870 thinking it was the next 5870.


I'm confused now.

You understand the 570 is the new class of cards over the 480, but you don't understand the 5770 is the new class over the 4870?

It's the same exact thing.

But I do understand the confusion and new naming that took place with the 6870 and 5870.
June 28, 2011 4:20:20 PM

ATI
Generation
Superclass (this is a gimmick)
Class
Subclass

v.

Nvidia
Generation
Class
Subclass

This is what I am having trouble saying. Anyhow, I am getting way off topic here... I like Nvidia naming scheme better. You will always know that a 410 < 510 < 420 < 520 < 430 < 530 < 440 < 540 < 450 < 550 < 460 < 560 < 470 < 570 < 480 < 580 (FOR THE MOST PART) and never buy a card with a 5 at the end because it is just a crappy version of another card that is not worth fooling with. With ATI you really have to think about what they mean. Love ATI cards lately, but their naming system is a gimmick.
a c 216 U Graphics card
a b Ý World of Warcraft
June 28, 2011 4:29:30 PM

wardler said:
ATI
Generation
Superclass (this is a gimmick)
Class
Subclass

v.
Nvidia
Generation
Class
Subclass

This is what I am having trouble saying.


So you ignore the 2nd number of the ATI cards, when it's the most important number of their naming convention? No wonder you are confused.

Look at ATI cards. Every card with a higher superclass, every last one, is faster than one that's lower as long as they are of the same generation.

Now let's get back to reality here.

ATI
Generation
Class
Subclass
a 0 added to the end

ATI cards just add a 0 to the end of all their cards. There is no 6855, there is no 4875. Take the 0 off the ATI naming convention, and it's very similar to that of the Nvidia cards.

Of course the 6000 cards went up a notch on the 2nd number, which I disagree with doing.
June 28, 2011 4:31:20 PM

Just forget it... You misunderstand my point. I see what you are saying and I agree.
a c 216 U Graphics card
a b Ý World of Warcraft
June 28, 2011 4:33:38 PM

wardler said:
I never said I ignore the second number! I said the second number is a gimmick!


Are you insane?

What ever you call it, the 2nd number is the same as the Nvidia's 2nd number.

A 480 being similar to a 570 is exactly the same as a 5770 being similar to a 4870.
a c 216 U Graphics card
a b Ý World of Warcraft
June 28, 2011 4:44:35 PM

wardler said:
Just forget it... You misunderstand my point. I see what you are saying and I agree.


If you talked about the 6xxx compared to the 5xxx your complaint would have made sense. Until the 6xxx series, ATI's cards compared exactly the same way as Nvidia compared to each other in your example. And calling the superclass a gimmick also made little sense. It's part of their naming convention, one that even Nvidia used to use before the 2xx generation.

Your complaint must have been aimed at the wrong generation.
June 28, 2011 5:10:02 PM

Quote:
With the updates coming for the sandy bridge and how easy it will be for you to overclock your i5 I'd rethink things.

A: what PSU will allow me to oc my i5 and power GPus released over six months from now.

B: What GPU setup will go nicely with an oc i5?

Think end game for your psu now so you're not throwing it away in a year.


I agree 100% with that. This is why I am not sure if a 750W will cut the cake for me here. What exactly do you find appropriate?
June 28, 2011 5:12:06 PM

bystander said:
If you talked about the 6xxx compared to the 5xxx your complaint would have made sense. Until the 6xxx series, ATI's cards compared exactly the same way as Nvidia compared to each other in your example. And calling the superclass a gimmick also made little sense. It's part of their naming convention, one that even Nvidia used to use before the 2xx generation.

Your complaint must have been aimed at the wrong generation.


I was indeed complaining about the 5 --> 6 series. I reread what I said to see what on Earth you are talking about... The way I worded it, it looks like I was talking about the 5770 and 4870, but the idea only popped into my head at the time I was typing that. It was completely irrelevant other than that. Sorry about the confusion...
June 28, 2011 5:18:40 PM

So here is where I am at so far. I am considering buying a single HD6950 and a 750W PSU from a reputable company... there are so many manufacture variations of the HD6950 that it is going to take me a while to dig through them and decide what is worth the extra 10 dollars (in my experience usually not much difference in these variations to justify the extra spending)...

Anyone off the top of their head want to recommend a manufacture that has a lifetime warranty, a specific model, and why?
What are your recommendations on power supplies? Still haven't had anyone answer the question: Is 750W enough for future Crossfire and CPU overclocking?
June 28, 2011 7:41:55 PM

Anyone else have a take on this before I purchase this power supply?
a c 216 U Graphics card
a b Ý World of Warcraft
June 28, 2011 8:05:20 PM

750W is the min requirement for crossfire 6950's. 850W would be recommended.
June 28, 2011 8:07:00 PM

Then I definitely wouldn't be overclocking CPU and running HD6950's in Crossfire on a 750W. Thanks for the input!
June 28, 2011 8:09:34 PM

Well I do know of a good site called techpowerup that usaully has WoW as one of the games they test graphic cards on the site. They also show what fps the card gets at multiple resolutions. It helps that the charts are easy to read and are clear like the charts they have here.

Also you can flash the 6950 using the 6970 bios to unlock the shaders to 6970 levels. The same site I was talking about has a guide on it (http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/overclocking/vidcar...) but I'm not sure if you can crosfire those cards that have been modded. However, you can only use the graphic cards that use the reference design for this to work as far as I know.
a c 216 U Graphics card
a b Ý World of Warcraft
June 28, 2011 8:09:49 PM

Well, let me be a little more detailed. Using the calculator here: http://extreme.outervision.com/index.jsp (it seems to be down atm)

When using that, with an overclocked i7 920 @ 4.0, and overclocked 6950's, it had the min at 750W, and recommended 850W.
June 29, 2011 1:23:11 PM

Wow, that is well over 80%. Thanks for the info!
!