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BF3 and GTX 580

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July 2, 2011 9:26:45 PM

Okay so... I've been waiting for 5 years for BF3 to come out. And now, we've got an October release date. However, my rig is mostly woefully inadequate for it. Actually, it's really only my GPU that's holding me back.

Current rig:
-GTX 275
-Core i5 760
-4GB GSkill Trident 2133Mhz
-GIGABYTE P55A UD3
-Corsair 750W PSU

My plan was (up til now) to upgrade in October, a week or so before BF3's release to the following:

-GTX 580
-Core i7 2600K
-8GB GSkill Trident 2133Mhz
-A solid mobo of some kind
-same PSU

Now, my main line of thinking with this rig is it will likely be the last rig I build for a very long time, probably the better part of a decade. I need to start saving money for a car/house and other *** like that. So my main idea is something that will last a very long time. Therefore, I am buying absurdly powerful stuff that will hopefully be able to rock BF3's multiplayer at 60FPS on full or near to full settings.

My problem I'm encountering is that I JUST learned the GTX 600 series will be showing itself in November, a few weeks after BF3's release.


My two questions for you guys, tomshardware community are:
1. Should I wait until after the GTX 600 series is released to see if there is going to be a much more powerful card I can grab for the same price as the GTX 580? Or alternatively, just wait and see if the GTX 580 significantly drops in price after the GTX 600 series starts being in the forefront?
2. What's a good mobo for the new Core i7 2600? I haven't really looked around yet. It doesn't have to be too fancy with features. I just want something rock solid I can slap into my case and not have to worry about.


Thanks guys!

More about : bf3 gtx 580

a b Î Nvidia
July 2, 2011 10:14:16 PM

OK,
1. Should I wait until after the GTX 600 series is released to see if there is going to be a much more powerful card I can grab for the same price as the GTX 580? Or alternatively, just wait and see if the GTX 580 significantly drops in price after the GTX 600 series starts being in the forefront?
Nice idea but thats just not going to happen, if its much more powerful it will also be much more expensive. Also the 580 wont drop significantly or people would just start buying those and ignore the newer cards.
2. I really don't know, I'm kinda interested in Bulldozer but have no real need to upgrade so have not really been paying attention to motherboards lately.

Mactronix :) 


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July 3, 2011 12:13:15 AM

you might not need to replace your cpu/mobo, or add more ram. We don't have any benchmark data yet but a simple vidoe card upgrade may be sufficient to allow you to max the game out. Maybe if you just purchased a gtx 580 or its sli equivalent? but seriously wait for the game or its benchmarks to be released before you make major purchasing decisions that you may end up regretting in the light of new data.
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July 3, 2011 1:20:23 AM

@Mactronix: I have a feeling you're right. I remember the HD4870X2... It was still like $400 long after many many many newer cards were released in its stead.

@OC'd Toaster: I'm upgrading either way. This will be my last build for a while. Its' going to likely be the PC I take with myself when I move out.


So... I'm getting the vibe I should wait for the GTX600 series? Or at the very least, wait until someone benchmarks the game with a GTX 580 to see if it can obtain a solid 60FPS?

I WAS hoping to have a BF3-ready rig for when the game comes out, so I could jump right into it... But that's probably not the smarter idea D:
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a b Î Nvidia
July 3, 2011 10:09:53 AM

I have to think that in order to continue to stay competitive in the first-person shooter genre, BF3 (even though it appears to be exceptional) will be able to run well on video cards that aren't the absolute best. Otherwise, people will start jumping ship and playing more of that COD crap (the old COD stuff was better for its time).

They have to know they have to keep some kind of balance in order to maximize the units sold.

As a result, not knowing any of the game's minimum hardware requirements as they have yet to be released, I would think a 580 will end up being quite adequate once this game is released; just from a sales standpoint. I would think EA's pushing the envelope with BF3, but not excluding too many customers in the process.

Go for the 580.

Also, BF3 - if it's like BFBC2 in any way - will use all 8 threads of a 2600K processor. Also with the 2600K, there's generally more headroom for an OC than other 1155 processors and you can always turn off HT if you're not using/don't need it. But for BF3, I'm guessing they've optimized it for maximum thread use.
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a b Î Nvidia
July 3, 2011 10:17:37 AM

Ubercake is spot on,
What you need to decide really is do you want to play the game when its released or can you wait for the new cards to check out the fullest set of options.
Take this as a scenario.
You do nothing now and buy the game when its released. Your 275 struggles with it so you have a couple of options now. By now we should have firm dates for releases of new products (crossed fingers).
So your choices are, can you wait that long or do you courier an overnight 580 ? as by then you will have benchmarks to fall back on, so will know if the 580 is ok or not.

Mactronix :) 
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a b Î Nvidia
July 3, 2011 10:24:34 AM

More advice since you're also talking about buying a house and other life issues...

Buy up someone's short-sale or foreclosure (since there are plenty of them out there!) and you'll have enough immediate equity to finance your own data center. Just a thought.
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July 3, 2011 5:52:49 PM

I have a old living room pc, a ibm desktop, it's been upgraded many times. It started out as a win98 machine. now its winxp-pro x2-4400+@2.5ghz/4870.
It still plays games well at 1080p. I am pretty sure bf3 will run on a 275. Games like black ops run fine on my computer even that the cpu is below the min spec.
The system went from a k6-3-500/voodoo3 to duron 1.3/geforce2gts, athlonxp3000+@2.58ghz/9600xt, x2/4870, you see how it increased in power each time? My next upgrade needs to be at least 4 cores and double the 4870.

-A good upgrading rule to follow is: The new part must be at least twice as fast in benchmarks. Twice as fast means the mainstream parts not the ones over $250.

-Currently there are no cpus that can double your current cpu in speed, so keep your cpu till the 6 core or 8 core i5's come out.
- The card is pretty fast, the 275 still matches the current 550.
- There are cards that are twice as fast, and some of the mainstream cards are starting to double the 275.
- If you could sell the 275 used for something like $50, then the 560ti would be a good choice. The 6950 is good too. The hd-6970, 570 and 580 gets expensive and they run hotter.

-Oh ya get weekly payments because the principal gets paid down and the next week's payment the interest is a few pennies less and you pay a few pennies more off on the mortgage(it pays off the mortgage a bit faster). Also in times of hardship, weekly payments are easier to pay for. It is easier to add a extra $40 a week to pay it off a bit faster too.

-Beware of bad areas, you can always fix up the house but you can't fix up the neighborhood.

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a c 435 Î Nvidia
July 3, 2011 6:14:25 PM

The GTX 580's are already coming down in price, now just over $400. By November, I don't know, but I would expect them to come down more after the GTX 680's are released. One GTX 580 will absolutely be able to max out anything BF3 related, no question. If you are buying in November, I would wait and look for updates on the 600 series release date and reviews of how good they are.

When the 600 series comes out, it will be significantly different due to the smaller 28nm die size (vs. 40nm on the 400 and 500 series). So the 600's will be a bigger jump from the 500's than the 500 series were from the 400 series, cooler, quieter, more powerful.

The cost of a GTX 680 will be about the same cost as the high-end cards always debut at: ~$500, maybe slightly more. This has been true for anything from the 7900 GTX to the GTX 280, to the GTX 480, to the GTX 580. Standard pricing will apply.
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July 3, 2011 7:16:08 PM

Hmm alright.

need4speeds: Any idea when that might be? Because again, my main idea is future proofing here. Buying something that will last a long ass time. And I know for a fact that the new Core i7s are really really powerful for dirt cheap compared to past core i7s.

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July 3, 2011 7:24:11 PM

Because I'm not just thinking specifically about BF3 here. I'm thinking about the long haul. This is going to be my last build for nearly a decade.

The i7 2600K kicks the crap out of the $1000 last gen Core i7 XXXs! And for only $300? Seems kinda looney to pass that up.

Also, need I remind everyone that the Core i5 760 lacks hyper-threading? Something I didn't really think about til after I bought it. Chances are, BF3 and many future applications will make use of this tech.


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July 4, 2011 2:12:02 AM

-You have one thing going for you with the i5-760, it's a bit faster than amd's current top phenomIIx4 in speed. Game developers still have to make their games run on most systems that people have or they have trouble selling their game. Today the standard spec system is a 6000+/ hd-3870 or core2 duo 2.5ghz/8800gt. Bf3 will be made to run on that at med-low details.
Llano is a game changer, now there will be lots of laptops with a slower quad and 400 shader card. Games will be made to run on that at laptop screen resolutions, usually 720p.
Upgrading the card to something like the 560ti, 570 or hd-6950 would make the biggest improvement today.

Usually doing a board/cpu upgrade is more work than doing a card swap since you often have to reinstall windows. Sometimes i have been lucky and windows booted up in safe mode and i was able to install the drivers for the new board, but that doesn't always happen.

-You should estimate your pay after taxes and add that to the cpu/board swap since your time is worth something. That could be a hour or two if you are really lucky, or a whole day or so.

-This is the main reason i am still using that old 939-x2 board/cpu.

The 939-x2-4400+ was made in 2005 and was the second top cpu at the time like the current i5-2500k. Today a wolfdale celeron or unlocked sempron can beat it.

The i7-2600k has ht for a total of 8 cores, but games only use 2 or 3 cores with only a few using 4. Since the i7-2600K only has 4 cores, most games can't use ht. So the i5-2500K is about the same speed but cheaper to buy.
Both of those cpu's are only about 25% faster than your current cpu. It's not enough of a speed jump.

-Going to a larger aftermarket cooler and overclocking the i5-760 would be the cheapest way to gain extra cpu power. It is also easier since you are not doing a board swap.

-I am assuming your current cpu/board is about 2 years old. So it's good for another 5 years till it's like my 939-x2 is now. In 5 years who knows what kind of fancy cpus will be out? It wont last 10 years there is no way(even a new i7-2600K wont). At one time when i had the k6-3-500 and then the duron1.3 then 3000+, the speed for cpus doubled every year or two, but since the 3000+ and 939-x2-4400+ that has slowed alot in the computer world. My ibmcyrix6x86 then k6-500 and duron1.3 cpus went obsolete quickly in under 2 years. Then it slowed down with the 3000+ lasting a few years, and the x2-4400+ lasting the longest.
Maybe in 2 years there will be i5 8 core 5ghz cpus but the quad cores will be the new celeron budget cpus. I am just guessing.

You should be able to save money down the road by reusing your case, power supply, key/mouse, dvdrw.
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July 5, 2011 12:35:10 AM

Okay let me put it this way. I don't expect the parts to literally last 10 years and stay "current". But I want to stay near the top as long as possible without upgrading. So hence my desire to upgrade with some of the very best once BF3 comes out, and then I'll just coast as long as I can from then on, until I run into a game that I cannot run well.

Another way I can put this... Is it cheaper to buy mid-range parts and kind of upgrade small bottlenecks as they develop over 2-3 years, or is it cheaper to buy very good stuff, but only every 5-6 years?

But you've given me a lot to think about dude, thanks
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July 5, 2011 4:05:33 AM

anything you buy, no matter how expensive, could easily go obsolete on you in 3 years. you should only get bleeding edge hardware if you actually need the performance, you should not do it in the name of ``future-proofing``. In the long run it is more cost-effective to purchase something more reasonable and simply upgrade whenever performance becomes unsatisfactory.

also, it never makes sense to upgrade when you are satisfied with your current peformance, you should never upgrade in the name of future proofing... buy the stuff when you actually need it, not 3 years in advance. so to upgrade from i5-760 to i7-2600k just because you may need the i7 one day does not make sense. save the money you were going to spend for the time when you actually need an upgrade.
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July 6, 2011 4:47:26 AM

I think I've got a plan for the CPU... Just wait and see how my i5 760 does.

I do however NEED to upgrade my video card.


GTX580 should be enough the more I think about it. DICE and even more, EA, is not going to make/release a game for PC that requires having an $800 to play at 60FPS on highest settings. They KNOW that would hurt sales. And I even remember a DICE employee saying "If you can run BC2, you can run BF3".

But regardless, I think I will wait until the game actually comes out. Buy whatever card I think will give me the desired FPS, try it in combo with my current CPU and see if I'm satisfied. If not, then upgrade that shite.
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a b Î Nvidia
July 6, 2011 8:51:20 AM

You'll be just fine with your current CPU and a 580.
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