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DS carts can soon be over 6 times larger than PSP UMDs!

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Anonymous
May 11, 2005 3:36:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

3DM, the memory used in the DS carts, has reached 1GB, slightly less than a
UMD's max size. They'll soon be moving to 90nm process that will increase
that to 8GB, on the cheap.

More storage capacity than the UMD and with solid state load times. Looks
like another reason why carts are still the way to go for portable gaming
and where Nintendo played their cards right. They'll be able to hold quite
a bit of content on those things. I'd expect another cart based GameBoy is
in the future rather than a disk based battery beast.

Maybe Sony can hack something together to allow them to use the Duo slot as
a cart slot to move away from the slower more power consuming UMD media?
That would make them the hands down best in this round, no arguments
allowed, except maybe some fringe touch titles. They'd be able to make
games like those on the PS2, etc, that are allowed to take full advantage of
the media rather than having to be hamstringed by the power usage
limitations and load time fiascos like in the current nontrivial PSP games.

I'm sure they'll figure some way to fix the problem. Quite exciting stuff!
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 4:38:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote in message
news:428233d7$0$51518$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
> 3DM, the memory used in the DS carts, has reached 1GB, slightly less than
a
> UMD's max size. They'll soon be moving to 90nm process that will increase
> that to 8GB, on the cheap.
>
> More storage capacity than the UMD and with solid state load times. Looks
> like another reason why carts are still the way to go for portable gaming
> and where Nintendo played their cards right. They'll be able to hold
quite
> a bit of content on those things. I'd expect another cart based GameBoy
is
> in the future rather than a disk based battery beast.
>
> Maybe Sony can hack something together to allow them to use the Duo slot
as
> a cart slot
[SNIP]

They don't have to "hack " something together. If you owned a PSP, you
would note that when browsing under "Games" the PSP shows icons for both the
UMD and the Memory Stick Duo (just as under Music and Movies it also shows
icons for the UMD and the Memory Stick Duo). In other words, the structure
already exists to use the Duo as a "cartridge slot" for games.

Whether that means users will have to download games using a PC and then
store them on the memory stick, or whether some companies will sell games
directly on the sticks remains to be seen. Considering the price of memory
stick media, however (a 1GB Sony brand is $199 at Best Buy), I doubt we'll
ever see them used to the extent that the DS cards are. UMD's will likely
remain the cheapest way to publish a PSP game.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 5:01:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Why must you troll?
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 5:01:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Boody Bandit" <boodybandit@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6amdnQcFUvwepx_fRVn-1A@suscom.com...
>
> Why must you troll?

Can't anyone have a discussion without you simpletons crying "troll"? It's
pathetic.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 6:12:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Jan Lucas" <jan@lucas-berlin.de> wrote in message
news:D 5tih6$bin$01$1@news.t-online.com...

>> 3DM, the memory used in the DS carts, has reached 1GB, slightly less
>> than a UMD's max size. They'll soon be moving to 90nm process that
>> will increase that to 8GB, on the cheap.
>
> AFAIK it is not yet used in the DS carts. The technology was just
> licensed by Nintendo and is currently in evaluation.

I'm pretty sure it's in use. The Juice Box even uses it.

> And afaik it is 1Gigabit not byte. So when it moves to 90nm that would
> be 1 Gigabyte, still less than the PSP UMDs. That is still quite a lot
> and on a handheld you don't really need more.

Those numbers you're thinking of are for the 31mm^2 die, not the bigger DS
die.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 6:16:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Why must you troll?
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 6:16:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Oh, I see... IHBT.

"Boody Bandit" <boodybandit@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Zc2dnUGixv2d0R_fRVn-oA@suscom.com...
> Why must you troll?
>
>
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 7:27:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Android" <androvich@NOcomcastSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:o fGdnQhwCsPSwh_fRVn-vQ@comcast.com...

> They don't have to "hack " something together.

Yes, they'd have to hack together a 3DM Duo card. They don't currently make
those.

> If you owned a PSP, you
> would note that when browsing under "Games" the PSP shows icons for both
> the
> UMD and the Memory Stick Duo (just as under Music and Movies it also shows
> icons for the UMD and the Memory Stick Duo). In other words, the
> structure
> already exists to use the Duo as a "cartridge slot" for games.

I meant the media.

> Whether that means users will have to download games using a PC and then
> store them on the memory stick, or whether some companies will sell games
> directly on the sticks remains to be seen. Considering the price of
> memory
> stick media, however (a 1GB Sony brand is $199 at Best Buy), I doubt we'll
> ever see them used to the extent that the DS cards are.

The 1GB Sony FLASH card is totally off topic. It's not 3DM. That's the
topic.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 7:37:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Why must you troll?
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 8:09:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

On 11 May 2005 11:36:02 -0500, "Fred Liken"
<fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote:

>3DM, the memory used in the DS carts, has reached 1GB, slightly less than a
>UMD's max size. They'll soon be moving to 90nm process that will increase
>that to 8GB, on the cheap.

Disc capacity are usually measured in megabyte and gigabyte, ROM size
are usually measured in megabit and gigabit.

I need to ask one simple question: is the DS memory capacity measured
the same as Sony UMD? For all we know, the DS' 1GB ROM could be
gigabit, which is really 128 megabyte while UMD is 1GB or 1024 MB. If
that's the case, then when DS cart reaches 8GB, it'll simply catch up
to UMD size.
--
When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already
too late. - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX
To reply, replace digi.mon with phreaker.net
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 8:09:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Impmon" <impmon@digi.mon> wrote in message
news:fep481l92pfqm84ga4nbud87hcj8vagl05@4ax.com...
> On 11 May 2005 11:36:02 -0500, "Fred Liken"
> <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote:

>>3DM, the memory used in the DS carts, has reached 1GB, slightly less than
>>a
>>UMD's max size. They'll soon be moving to 90nm process that will increase
>>that to 8GB, on the cheap.
>
> Disc capacity are usually measured in megabyte and gigabyte, ROM size
> are usually measured in megabit and gigabit.

That's Gbyte for the UMD and Gbit for the DS, as far as package labelling.

> I need to ask one simple question: is the DS memory capacity measured
> the same as Sony UMD? For all we know, the DS' 1GB ROM could be
> gigabit, which is really 128 megabyte while UMD is 1GB or 1024 MB. If
> that's the case, then when DS cart reaches 8GB, it'll simply catch up
> to UMD size.

But that's for the smaller die. The DS uses bigger dies.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 11:19:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Liar.

RnR Lesnar


"Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote in message
news:428233d7$0$51518$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
> 3DM, the memory used in the DS carts, has reached 1GB, slightly less than
> a UMD's max size. They'll soon be moving to 90nm process that will
> increase that to 8GB, on the cheap.
>
> More storage capacity than the UMD and with solid state load times. Looks
> like another reason why carts are still the way to go for portable gaming
> and where Nintendo played their cards right. They'll be able to hold
> quite a bit of content on those things. I'd expect another cart based
> GameBoy is in the future rather than a disk based battery beast.
>
> Maybe Sony can hack something together to allow them to use the Duo slot
> as a cart slot to move away from the slower more power consuming UMD
> media? That would make them the hands down best in this round, no
> arguments allowed, except maybe some fringe touch titles. They'd be able
> to make games like those on the PS2, etc, that are allowed to take full
> advantage of the media rather than having to be hamstringed by the power
> usage limitations and load time fiascos like in the current nontrivial PSP
> games.
>
> I'm sure they'll figure some way to fix the problem. Quite exciting
> stuff!
>
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 11:23:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

still waiting.
Why "must" you troll?
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 2:34:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Fred Liken schrieb:
> "Jan Lucas" <jan@lucas-berlin.de> wrote in message
> news:D 5tih6$bin$01$1@news.t-online.com...
>
>
>>>3DM, the memory used in the DS carts, has reached 1GB, slightly less
>>>than a UMD's max size. They'll soon be moving to 90nm process that
>>>will increase that to 8GB, on the cheap.
>>
>>AFAIK it is not yet used in the DS carts. The technology was just
>>licensed by Nintendo and is currently in evaluation.
>
>
> I'm pretty sure it's in use. The Juice Box even uses it.
>
>
>>And afaik it is 1Gigabit not byte. So when it moves to 90nm that would
>>be 1 Gigabyte, still less than the PSP UMDs. That is still quite a lot
>>and on a handheld you don't really need more.
>
>
> Those numbers you're thinking of are for the 31mm^2 die, not the bigger DS
> die.

The DS die would be 248mm^2 or something like that then, which would be
terrible expensive to produce.
This press release also suggests their largest chip is the 1 Gbit one.
(http://www.matrixsemi.com/media-resources/press-release...)

This article also suggests the 1 GBit chip is priced at $9, which is
pretty expensive if you want to use it for $30-40 games. Sure, Nintendo
would buy a lot more than 1000 and would very likely get a much nicer
price. The article also says the Matrix Semiconductors VP of sales and
marketing refused to say anything about a deal with Nintendo.
http://ecoustics-cnet.com.com/Matrixs+3D+memory+chips+t...

I can't stop you from claiming, but you should really provide sources to
base your claims on, otherwise they are pretty worthless.

I'm also not sure about Matrix Memory already being used by Nintendo, at
least most DS cards seem to use Macronix chips. Maybe you or someone
else interpreted their MX logo as Matrix instead of Macronix?
http://www.macronix.com

Here is a picture of the metroid prime cart from the inside:
http://www.dslinux.org/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type...
(if doesn't work directly go via:
http://www.dslinux.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=45 )
You can clearly see the Macronix logo there.
Jan
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 2:34:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Jan Lucas" <jan@lucas-berlin.de> wrote in message
news:D 5tq8c$i25$00$1@news.t-online.com...

>> Those numbers you're thinking of are for the 31mm^2 die, not the bigger
>> DS die.
>
> The DS die would be 248mm^2
> or something like that then, which would be terrible expensive to produce.
>
> This press release also suggests their largest chip is the 1 Gbit one.
> (http://www.matrixsemi.com/media-resources/press-release...)

They say it's the smallest 1Gb chip.

> This article also suggests the 1 GBit chip is priced at $9,

No, that's from a while back. Before the 1Gb chip, even.

> which is pretty expensive if you want to use it for $30-40 games. Sure,
> Nintendo would buy a lot more than 1000 and would very likely get a much
> nicer price. The article also says the Matrix Semiconductors VP of sales
> and marketing refused to say anything about a deal with Nintendo.
> http://ecoustics-cnet.com.com/Matrixs+3D+memory+chips+t...

Yeah, there's little information on it out there. I see Nintendo has taken
down all references to 3DM as well.

> I can't stop you from claiming, but you should really provide sources to
> base your claims on, otherwise they are pretty worthless.

And I fear I cannot find those sources again since Nintendo's taken them
down.

> I'm also not sure about Matrix Memory already being used by Nintendo, at
> least most DS cards seem to use Macronix chips. Maybe you or someone else
> interpreted their MX logo as Matrix instead of Macronix?
> http://www.macronix.com
>
> Here is a picture of the metroid prime cart from the inside:
> http://www.dslinux.org/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type...
> (if doesn't work directly go via:
> http://www.dslinux.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=45 )
> You can clearly see the Macronix logo there.

Yep, that's a Macronix.

Looks like I'm left holding my winkie. I can't even find cached pages. Oh
well, looks to be done.
May 12, 2005 4:11:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Boody Bandit wrote:
> Why must you troll?


Why is it trolling? I found it quite interesting. Interesting to see how
the cards can be increased and I like the idea of games on the PSP running
from memory card.
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 2:58:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"RnR Lesnar" <rnrcartmnospaman@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:D 5u7fk$m21$1@news.datasync.com...

>> That would make them [Sony] the hands down best in this round, no
>> arguments allowed, except maybe some fringe touch titles.

> Liar.
>
> RnR Lesnar

What? I thought you liked the PSP?
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 4:54:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote in message
news:428269f6$0$51555$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
> "Android" <androvich@NOcomcastSPAM.net> wrote in message
> news:o fGdnQhwCsPSwh_fRVn-vQ@comcast.com...
>
> > They don't have to "hack " something together.
>
> Yes, they'd have to hack together a 3DM Duo card. They don't currently
make
> those.

And Nintendo doesn't currently make UMD's. What's your point?

> > If you owned a PSP, you
> > would note that when browsing under "Games" the PSP shows icons for both
> > the
> > UMD and the Memory Stick Duo (just as under Music and Movies it also
shows
> > icons for the UMD and the Memory Stick Duo). In other words, the
> > structure
> > already exists to use the Duo as a "cartridge slot" for games.
>
> I meant the media.

You wrote: "Maybe Sony can hack something together to allow them to use the
Duo slot as a cart slot to move away from the slower more power consuming
UMD media?" You didn't specifically mention Sony figuring out a way to use
the Duo slot to read 3DM cards, which is why I pointed out that the PSP
already does use the Duo slot as a cart slot.

> > Whether that means users will have to download games using a PC and then
> > store them on the memory stick, or whether some companies will sell
games
> > directly on the sticks remains to be seen. Considering the price of
> > memory
> > stick media, however (a 1GB Sony brand is $199 at Best Buy), I doubt
we'll
> > ever see them used to the extent that the DS cards are.
>
> The 1GB Sony FLASH card is totally off topic. It's not 3DM. That's the
> topic.

I thought the "topic" was that technological advances in the DS media will
soon give them equal or greater capacity than the UMD, and that solid state
memory is better than power-consuming disk media. So I don't think it is
off topic to point out that the UMD is not the only media that the PSP is
designed to read.
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 5:11:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Fred Liken wrote:

> I'm sure they'll figure some way to fix the problem. Quite exciting stuff!

Dude, you REALLY need to get laid!
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 8:35:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Fred Liken schrieb:
>>>Those numbers you're thinking of are for the 31mm^2 die, not the bigger
>>>DS die.
>>
>>The DS die would be 248mm^2
>>or something like that then, which would be terrible expensive to produce.
>>
>>This press release also suggests their largest chip is the 1 Gbit one.
>>(http://www.matrixsemi.com/media-resources/press-release...)
>
> They say it's the smallest 1Gb chip.

That and:
"By the end of 2005, Matrix will have applied these technologies across
all of the memory capacities it currently offers (128-, 256-, and
512-megabit) as well as the new one-gigabit 3-D memory"

So 1Gb is also their largest chip.

Jan
May 12, 2005 8:54:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Boody Bandit wrote:
> "Beck" <my_bulkmail@btopenworld.invalid> wrote in message
> news:3efhqnF2oubtU1@individual.net...
>
>> Why is it trolling?
>
>
> Fred has no interest in owning either the Nintendo DS or Sony PSP
> (his words not mine). He has done nothing but be negative about the
> Sony PSP, jumping into any thread pertaining to it just to stir up
> bullshit. He himself has said several times that posting anything
> pertaining to the PSP or DS on the PS2 and GameCube newsgroup is as
> off topic as politcal and religious post and yet here he is yet again
> doing it himself.

That was previous posts. To judge a person on past posting is rather
narrowminded :-)
I saw nothing offensive about the post and found it quite interesting to
read. There is nowt negative about the PSP in his post, its only his
thoughts on how the memory card could be used for games.
Also someone does not have to own a console or have an interest in owning
one to be able to make comment.
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 9:55:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Impmon <impmon@digi.mon> wrote:

> Disc capacity are usually measured in megabyte and gigabyte, ROM size
> are usually measured in megabit and gigabit.

Only the consoles used Mbit/Gbit. The DS's cards are based on flash
memory which is measured in MByte/GByte.

Even if you could create a larger DS card, that doesn't mean that Nintendo
will start using them or that the DS would even be capable of using them
due to addressing limitations.
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 9:55:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Doug Jacobs" <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
news:118764fd3vm3h7c@corp.supernews.com...

> In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Impmon <impmon@digi.mon> wrote:
>
>> Disc capacity are usually measured in megabyte and gigabyte, ROM size
>> are usually measured in megabit and gigabit.
>
> Only the consoles used Mbit/Gbit. The DS's cards are based on flash
> memory which is measured in MByte/GByte.
>
> Even if you could create a larger DS card, that doesn't mean that Nintendo
> will start using them or that the DS would even be capable of using them
> due to addressing limitations.

That's ignorant. Even the lowly NES was able to break its addressing
limitations via bank switching.
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 10:12:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Android" <androvich@NOcomcastSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:D oWdnfAChMf8KR7fRVn-rw@comcast.com...

>> > They don't have to "hack " something together.
>>
>> Yes, they'd have to hack together a 3DM Duo card. They don't currently
> make
>> those.
>
> And Nintendo doesn't currently make UMD's. What's your point?

Um, I'm kind of sad for you that you can't figure out the point... The
point is that they should scrap the UMD for solidstate.

>> I meant the media.
>
> You wrote: "Maybe Sony can hack something together to allow them to use
> the
> Duo slot as a cart slot to move away from the slower more power consuming
> UMD media?" You didn't specifically mention Sony figuring out a way to
> use
> the Duo slot to read 3DM cards,

Yeah, that's why I clarified. What don't you understand?

>> The 1GB Sony FLASH card is totally off topic. It's not 3DM. That's the
>> topic.

> I thought the "topic" was that technological advances in the DS media will
> soon give them equal or greater capacity than the UMD, and that solid
> state
> memory is better than power-consuming disk media. So I don't think it is
> off topic to point out that the UMD is not the only media that the PSP is
> designed to read.

Yeah, but you went off onto a Flash tangent which made no sense.
Anonymous
May 13, 2005 12:16:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Yes, and your point? Liar.

RnR Lesnar


"Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote in message
news:42837c59$0$51574$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
> "RnR Lesnar" <rnrcartmnospaman@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:D 5u7fk$m21$1@news.datasync.com...
>
>>> That would make them [Sony] the hands down best in this round, no
>>> arguments allowed, except maybe some fringe touch titles.
>
>> Liar.
>>
>> RnR Lesnar
>
> What? I thought you liked the PSP?
>
May 15, 2005 3:59:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Roger McKay wrote:
>
> Fred Liken wrote:
>
>
>>I'm sure they'll figure some way to fix the problem. Quite exciting stuff!
>
>
> Dude, you REALLY need to get laid!
>
http://www.ogemawlive.com/photodata/500/40delldudenewjo...
!