'Forza' zooms past 'Gran Turismo' to winner's circle of si..

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http://www.wcfcourier.com/articles [...] 5e4d40.txt

'Forza' zooms past 'Gran Turismo' to winner's circle of simulated racing
By AIMEE HATFIELD, Lincoln Journal Star

Simulation racing games tend to have a niche market. Many gamers prefer to
hurtle a car around a track by taking corners at insane speeds and banging
into anything that's in the way.

In sims such as ''Gran Turismo,'' that's not possible. Like real-life cars,
these virtual vehicles just don't handle that way. Becoming good requires
practicing, technique and knowing how to tune the car to make it faster.

My knowledge of the inner workings of a vehicle is pretty much limited to
refilling the wiper fluid. ''GT4'' was a good game, but I didn't really
enjoy it.

Still, ''GT4'' was one of the most anticipated games of the year, and a
number of companies have tried to compete with that dominance, most recently
Konami with ''Enthusia Professional Racing'' and Microsoft with ''Forza
Motorsport.''

While ''Enthusia'' isn't a danger to the ''GT'' empire, ''Forza'' has ''Gran
Turismo'' beaten in just about every way possible. Here, finally, is a
simulation racer I enjoy playing.

''Forza'' has many of the elements ''GT4'' has: more than 200 real-life cars
to unlock, dozens of tracks (some real-life), beautiful graphics and a deep
tuning garage (which you don't have to use, lucky for me).

While ''Forza'' doesn't have the photo mode of ''GT4'' --- and really, who
cares? --- it has something much better: an in-depth online mode through
Xbox Live. Gamers can race online against other players and have it count in
their offline career mode, form ''car clubs,'' view scoreboards and even buy
and sell their vehicles in an online marketplace.

They also can modify the car's appearance with parts and decals. And there's
an interesting ''drivatar'' mode, in which players can train AI to race for
them, though for a substantial fee and never quite as well.

On- or offline, the goals of career mode in ''Forza'' were easy to
understand, with a rewarding level-up system based on race earnings. The
physics of the game also had a much smaller learning curve, at least for me.
While I still struggled at first simply to make a turn without smashing into
the wall, I gained control over it in less time than it took in ''GT4.''

When I did smash into a wall, it affected my car in big ways. Not only did
the fender crunch, but I also could feel the impact in the steering for the
rest of the race.

The best part: Players can load their own songs to replace the game's
default music which, to be totally honest, needs to be replaced.

''Enthusia,'' on the other hand, makes a valiant effort but falls short. It,
too, has hundreds of cars, a number of game modes and pretty good graphics,
but poor control and the constant feeling that you're going 20 mph take much
of the fun out of it.

At least it tries to do things differently than other racers. Instead of
money, ''Enthusia'' uses a point system that goes toward your ranking. But
one aspect of this has you losing points every time you hit a wall or
another car. This ends up more a frustration than a challenge when you're
penalized for scrapes that aren't your fault.

With no money system, cars aren't purchased. Instead, there's a car roulette
at the end of each race; one of your opponent cars is randomly chosen to be
your prize. It takes away some goals to work toward, but it adds the element
of surprise.

''Forza'' was by far more rewarding than ''Enthusia'' and a bit better than
''Gran Turismo.'' If you have both systems and none of the games, go for
''Forza.'' If you want to try something a little different --- and are
willing to put up with its flaws --- check out ''Enthusia,'' too.

Either way, it's a good time to be a sim racer fan.

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"Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:42BEE745.C4C0DD52@blueyonder.co.uk...

Forza bored the hell out of me faster than almost any racer I have purchased
in the past 2 years.
Although it isn't a sim, I actually liked PGR2 better and played it longer.
I think Toca 2 is the best overall racer on the XBox.

Reply to Anonymous

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I'll take Burnout 3.

"Boody Bandit" <boodybandit@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MpadnQS3QKq4lCLfRVn-ug@suscom.com...
>
> "Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:42BEE745.C4C0DD52@blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> Forza bored the hell out of me faster than almost any racer I have
purchased
> in the past 2 years.
> Although it isn't a sim, I actually liked PGR2 better and played it
longer.
> I think Toca 2 is the best overall racer on the XBox.
>
>

Reply to Anonymous

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"Skye" <carolinaconvicts2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:N0Eve.12536$VK4.11140@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> I'll take Burnout 3.

Still one of the most fun racers I have ever played.
I "still" play it!

Reply to Anonymous

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In article <42BEE745.C4C0DD52@blueyonder.co.uk>, Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>I love my racing games, I enjoy both of these games, but neither of
>them is the perfect game it is often touted as.

With you on most points. Here's to (finally) competition raising
the bar and improving the breed ...

Reply to Dave

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In article <GmEve.568$GH6.440@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>, "Mike B" <sonofzeus26@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Are you joking? The AI in Forza is well beyond what GT4 is capable of, and
>everyone that has played both games knows that.

Lets face it, it doesn't take much I in the AI to beat GT's. But
now that I'm at Level 50 in Forza, I think I can say that its AI
leaves a lot to be desired. Overly aggressive, goes braindead
fairly often, very inconsistent from track to track. And
incredibly frustrating. Not just because it is competitive, but
because of its kamikazee style. Have you tried racing the 20 lap
Road America GTS endurance race yet??

Again, that still makes it better than GT4's.

Reply to Dave

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Boody Bandit wrote:
>
> "Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:42BEE745.C4C0DD52@blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> Forza bored the hell out of me faster than almost any racer I have purchased
> in the past 2 years.
> Although it isn't a sim, I actually liked PGR2 better and played it longer.
> I think Toca 2 is the best overall racer on the XBox.

I'm kind of enjoying Forza, although I get more annoyed at it than
even Toca race driver and the numerous badly designed rally games
where there's always a damned half invisible obstacle to rip your
wheels off. I did forget to mention the other good point, the fact
that more than one person can use it at one time, or as in my case I
have six profiles running at once, all at different stages and with
different main cars.

I did enjoy PGR2 but as with all those games it seemed to go from
relatively easy to f***ing hard quite quickly.
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Reply to Anonymous

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Boody Bandit wrote:
>
> "Skye" <carolinaconvicts2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:N0Eve.12536$VK4.11140@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> > I'll take Burnout 3.
>
> Still one of the most fun racers I have ever played.
> I "still" play it!

Aye they're great for a laugh, which is often forgotten when games are
played nowadays. Everyone seems obsessed with graphics instead of just
having a good time
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Reply to Anonymous

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Mike B wrote:

> Are you joking? The AI in Forza is well beyond what GT4 is capable of, and
> everyone that has played both games knows that.

I'm not disputing that it is a 'better' aI, but both of them attack
you, and I don't think that's part of sim racing. It's actually
illegal in most racing formats to ram someone off the road. Also if
you are in first place you don't deliberately slow down and take a hit
just to stop someone else from coming at least second. The AI is
brutal, and there does seem to often be a rubber band effect, where
they catch up with you no matter how well you drive.

I'm not really comparing them, except to say that neither is as good
as it is painted.
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Reply to Anonymous

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Dave wrote:
>
> In article <GmEve.568$GH6.440@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>, "Mike B" <sonofzeus26@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Are you joking? The AI in Forza is well beyond what GT4 is capable of, and
> >everyone that has played both games knows that.
>
> Lets face it, it doesn't take much I in the AI to beat GT's. But
> now that I'm at Level 50 in Forza, I think I can say that its AI
> leaves a lot to be desired. Overly aggressive, goes braindead
> fairly often, very inconsistent from track to track. And
> incredibly frustrating. Not just because it is competitive, but
> because of its kamikazee style. Have you tried racing the 20 lap
> Road America GTS endurance race yet??
>
> Again, that still makes it better than GT4's.

That's about the size of it. Luckily (from the sound of it) I haven't
raced any of the very long races, but the thought of being in a close
race only to be taken out by some nutcase AI makes me thankful for
that. I do enjoy their having some intelligence, but it's not always
evident.

Worst point about GT4 AI is in the rally type races. They will
actually leave their racing line to hit you, which gives YOU a 5
second penalty!

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Reply to Anonymous

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Dave wrote:
>
> In article <42BEE745.C4C0DD52@blueyonder.co.uk>, Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >I love my racing games, I enjoy both of these games, but neither of
> >them is the perfect game it is often touted as.
>
> With you on most points. Here's to (finally) competition raising
> the bar and improving the breed ...

I do hope so, and I don't care who wins as long as we get some bloody
good racing out of it.

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Reply to Anonymous

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I think I'll just sit on the sidelines while the AI, gameplay, graphics, ect
of the top consoles sims are debated -- but can say that I wouldn't want to
part with Forza, GT4, or TOCA2.

Anyone else like "IndyCar 2005" though? Lately, I've been playing Indycar
more than the three mentioned above combined. Graphics are no where near
Forza/GT4/TOCA2, but the gameplay can be quite challenging. To get on the
podium requires tremendous precision with both tuning and driving. To put
it simple, you have to be as focused on every lap in the race as you are in
the qualifying laps or you will lose positions before even knowing it. Very
rewarding once you get it down though. In my opinion, Indycar is very
underated. Great game and cheap ($15 new). If you like open-wheel racing,
check it out.

Cheers,
-E

Reply to Anonymous

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In article <42BF1ED1.E665F13D@blueyonder.co.uk>, Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>Dave wrote:
>> Not just because it is competitive, but
>> because of its kamikazee style. Have you tried racing the 20 lap
>> Road America GTS endurance race yet??

>That's about the size of it. Luckily (from the sound of it) I haven't
>raced any of the very long races, but the thought of being in a close
>race only to be taken out by some nutcase AI makes me thankful for
>that.

You don't know the half of it! I had to turn damage to "cosmetic"
otherwise I would have been toast half a dozen times. And still
it takes a fine line of braking early enough to not spin off, late
enough to not get clobbered and sent off by the maniac behind.
The above race took about a dozen tries, not including the ones
aborted at the first turn.

Guess I've reached that full masochistic stage now as I just ran
(and ran, and ran) a 7-lap GTS race on (I hate this course) Tokyo.
I finally won it by taking the AWD Volvo. Go slow, let them try
to punt you off the line, fighting like hell to keep them behind.
Then out-accelerate them with the AWD grip.

Yes, it's challenging. Yes, it is addictive in a masochistic way.
But real racing, it ain't.

Reply to Dave

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Eras wrote:
>
> I think I'll just sit on the sidelines while the AI, gameplay, graphics, ect
> of the top consoles sims are debated -- but can say that I wouldn't want to
> part with Forza, GT4, or TOCA2.
>
You know, one of the biggest pleasures I can recall was getting a demo
disc featuring the first toca. It had two tracks to test, if memory
serves me right, and you got to drive the Honda accord. I wanted
nothing more than to own the game after sending that poor car smashing
into every surface just to see how bad I could make it look. The
actual game was almost a let down, but I got into it and number 2 was
a great follow up. I don't know which arse biscuit came up with the
next Touring car game but I couldn't have hated it more if i tried.
What the hell was it called - world touring cars? ach! The same pretty
much goes for the Mcrae games. Loved the first ones to bits played
demo first of course. Gran turismo likewise. I guess them all being
new and shiny made them something else. Now we have newer and shinier
versions, but the originals had the advantage and it will be hard for
anyone to come up with an original idea for a driving game which can
have as big an impact.

> Anyone else like "IndyCar 2005" though? Lately, I've been playing Indycar
> more than the three mentioned above combined. Graphics are no where near
> Forza/GT4/TOCA2, but the gameplay can be quite challenging. To get on the
> podium requires tremendous precision with both tuning and driving. To put
> it simple, you have to be as focused on every lap in the race as you are in
> the qualifying laps or you will lose positions before even knowing it. Very
> rewarding once you get it down though. In my opinion, Indycar is very
> underated. Great game and cheap ($15 new). If you like open-wheel racing,
> check it out.
>
> Cheers,
> -E

I had a bit of a problem getting into the F1 games, and I am not an
Indycar fan, so I doubt whether it would appeal. Shame, sounds like a
bargain.
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Reply to Anonymous

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Dave wrote:
>
> In article <42BF1ED1.E665F13D@blueyonder.co.uk>, Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >Dave wrote:
> >> Not just because it is competitive, but
> >> because of its kamikazee style. Have you tried racing the 20 lap
> >> Road America GTS endurance race yet??
>
> >That's about the size of it. Luckily (from the sound of it) I haven't
> >raced any of the very long races, but the thought of being in a close
> >race only to be taken out by some nutcase AI makes me thankful for
> >that.
>
> You don't know the half of it! I had to turn damage to "cosmetic"
> otherwise I would have been toast half a dozen times. And still
> it takes a fine line of braking early enough to not spin off, late
> enough to not get clobbered and sent off by the maniac behind.
> The above race took about a dozen tries, not including the ones
> aborted at the first turn.
>
> Guess I've reached that full masochistic stage now as I just ran
> (and ran, and ran) a 7-lap GTS race on (I hate this course) Tokyo.
> I finally won it by taking the AWD Volvo. Go slow, let them try
> to punt you off the line, fighting like hell to keep them behind.
> Then out-accelerate them with the AWD grip.
>
> Yes, it's challenging. Yes, it is addictive in a masochistic way.
> But real racing, it ain't.

agreed. I haven't sworn this much since toca race Driver 2 and the
'classic' race where you drove the shite jag. I hate tokyo and the
longer new york... but I think it's Blue Mountains or whatever which I
hate most. The final corner, in whichever direction you go, is
terrifying as you just know you're either going to lose it or the car
behind will simply slide into you. I have gotten so mad on that track
if I still had teeth they would be dust )

oh yeah, completely forgot those downhill point to point races, where
you can't see a bloody inch in front of you but of of course the AI
doesn't need to see, and you can't see the little gits in your mirror
either, until they either sneak by you or rear end you.
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Reply to Anonymous

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In article <42BFCE6B.C40E206D@blueyonder.co.uk>, Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>Dave wrote:

>> Guess I've reached that full masochistic stage now as I just ran
>> (and ran, and ran) a 7-lap GTS race on (I hate this course) Tokyo.

[small correction: GT, not GTS]

> but I think it's Blue Mountains or whatever which I
>hate most.

At first, this was in my bottom 2 or 3. But I got used to it.
Just brake early, hug the inside line, and the car naturally
swings around the last curves. I'm at the point where I am
competitive with the medium AI.

>if I still had teeth they would be dust )

Is that a British thing? :-)

>oh yeah, completely forgot those downhill point to point races, where
>you can't see a bloody inch in front of you but of of course the AI
>doesn't need to see, and you can't see the little gits in your mirror
>either, until they either sneak by you or rear end you.

I'm not a point-to-point racer. So here I just gave in and turned
on the racing line and use an overdog car. Just to get it done.
I really hated the night Pacific Shipyards race until I did this.
First time through with the 60's muscle cars, no light, no
hanlding, no brakes, no clue. Ughhh.

The AI is very uneven. It is great on some courses (BM, Laguna
Seca, Silverstone) and clueless on others where I win by 2-4
seconds/lap with identical cars.

Reply to Dave

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Dave wrote:
>
> In article <42BFCE6B.C40E206D@blueyonder.co.uk>, Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >Dave wrote:
>
> >> Guess I've reached that full masochistic stage now as I just ran
> >> (and ran, and ran) a 7-lap GTS race on (I hate this course) Tokyo.
>
> [small correction: GT, not GTS]
>
> > but I think it's Blue Mountains or whatever which I
> >hate most.
>
> At first, this was in my bottom 2 or 3. But I got used to it.
> Just brake early, hug the inside line, and the car naturally
> swings around the last curves. I'm at the point where I am
> competitive with the medium AI.
>
lucky sod. I am just getting used to it, but it's still a pain

> >if I still had teeth they would be dust )
>
> Is that a British thing? :-)

Yeah, we brits always have no teeth ) I had to have them removed
then we found I gag on false teeth. I am waiting for advice on what to
do, I have been waiting for a couple of years!

>
> >oh yeah, completely forgot those downhill point to point races, where
> >you can't see a bloody inch in front of you but of of course the AI
> >doesn't need to see, and you can't see the little gits in your mirror
> >either, until they either sneak by you or rear end you.
>
> I'm not a point-to-point racer. So here I just gave in and turned
> on the racing line and use an overdog car. Just to get it done.
> I really hated the night Pacific Shipyards race until I did this.
> First time through with the 60's muscle cars, no light, no
> hanlding, no brakes, no clue. Ughhh.
>
> The AI is very uneven. It is great on some courses (BM, Laguna
> Seca, Silverstone) and clueless on others where I win by 2-4
> seconds/lap with identical cars.

It's a strange game all round. Much to give pleasure but much to cause
annoyance too.

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Reply to Anonymous

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"Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:42C002D3.98E65119@blueyonder.co.uk...
> Dave wrote:
>>
>> In article <42BFCE6B.C40E206D@blueyonder.co.uk>, Paul Heslop
>> <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> >Dave wrote:
>>
>> >> Guess I've reached that full masochistic stage now as I just ran
>> >> (and ran, and ran) a 7-lap GTS race on (I hate this course) Tokyo.
>>
>> [small correction: GT, not GTS]
>>
>> > but I think it's Blue Mountains or whatever which I
>> >hate most.
>>
>> At first, this was in my bottom 2 or 3. But I got used to it.
>> Just brake early, hug the inside line, and the car naturally
>> swings around the last curves. I'm at the point where I am
>> competitive with the medium AI.
>>
> lucky sod. I am just getting used to it, but it's still a pain
>
>> >if I still had teeth they would be dust )
>>
>> Is that a British thing? :-)
>
> Yeah, we brits always have no teeth ) I had to have them removed
> then we found I gag on false teeth. I am waiting for advice on what to
> do, I have been waiting for a couple of years!
>

I'm sure they have them in Britain as well but here in the US they have
these false teeth that they can individually implant right into your jaw.
You won't be able to tell the differance, although, they are quite expensive
running into the thousands of dollars for an entire mouthful. I'm sure the
operation to implant them would be somewhat tender for a few weeks to a few
months afterward as well. Anyway, just something for you to look into if
having no teeth bothers you at all.

This site here explains a little bit about implants.
http://www.vickiborowski.com/pages [...] m#implants

>>
>> >oh yeah, completely forgot those downhill point to point races, where
>> >you can't see a bloody inch in front of you but of of course the AI
>> >doesn't need to see, and you can't see the little gits in your mirror
>> >either, until they either sneak by you or rear end you.
>>
>> I'm not a point-to-point racer. So here I just gave in and turned
>> on the racing line and use an overdog car. Just to get it done.
>> I really hated the night Pacific Shipyards race until I did this.
>> First time through with the 60's muscle cars, no light, no
>> hanlding, no brakes, no clue. Ughhh.
>>
>> The AI is very uneven. It is great on some courses (BM, Laguna
>> Seca, Silverstone) and clueless on others where I win by 2-4
>> seconds/lap with identical cars.
>
> It's a strange game all round. Much to give pleasure but much to cause
> annoyance too.
>
> --
> Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Stop and Look
> http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Reply to Angel

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Angel wrote:

>
> I'm sure they have them in Britain as well but here in the US they have
> these false teeth that they can individually implant right into your jaw.
> You won't be able to tell the differance, although, they are quite expensive
> running into the thousands of dollars for an entire mouthful. I'm sure the
> operation to implant them would be somewhat tender for a few weeks to a few
> months afterward as well. Anyway, just something for you to look into if
> having no teeth bothers you at all.
>
> This site here explains a little bit about implants.
> http://www.vickiborowski.com/pages [...] m#implants
>
Yep, thanks... that's what they were planning. problem is because I am
not in a position to pay for it I have to go to a place called a
dental hospital. Basically you let them train their newbies on you
(eek!) only there's no worry of it happening as it should have
happened at least 18 months ago. I guess I am a low priority (

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Paul Heslop wrote:
> Angel wrote:
>
>
>>I'm sure they have them in Britain as well but here in the US they have
>>these false teeth that they can individually implant right into your jaw.
>>You won't be able to tell the differance, although, they are quite expensive
>>running into the thousands of dollars for an entire mouthful. I'm sure the
>>operation to implant them would be somewhat tender for a few weeks to a few
>>months afterward as well. Anyway, just something for you to look into if
>>having no teeth bothers you at all.
>>
>>This site here explains a little bit about implants.
>>http://www.vickiborowski.com/pages/solutions.htm#implants
>>
>
> Yep, thanks... that's what they were planning. problem is because I am
> not in a position to pay for it I have to go to a place called a
> dental hospital. Basically you let them train their newbies on you
> (eek!) only there's no worry of it happening as it should have
> happened at least 18 months ago. I guess I am a low priority (
>
>
>
what happened to your teeth? and how old are you?

Reply to theone

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Paul Heslop" wrote in message > Eras wrote:
> You know, one of the biggest pleasures I can recall was getting a demo
> disc featuring the first toca. It had two tracks to test, if memory
> serves me right, and you got to drive the Honda accord. I wanted
> nothing more than to own the game after sending that poor car smashing
> into every surface just to see how bad I could make it look. The
> actual game was almost a let down, but I got into it and number 2 was
> a great follow up. I don't know which arse biscuit came up with the
> next Touring car game but I couldn't have hated it more if i tried.
> What the hell was it called - world touring cars? ach! The same pretty
> much goes for the Mcrae games. Loved the first ones to bits played
> demo first of course. Gran turismo likewise. I guess them all being
> new and shiny made them something else. Now we have newer and shinier
> versions, but the originals had the advantage and it will be hard for
> anyone to come up with an original idea for a driving game which can
> have as big an impact.
>
> I had a bit of a problem getting into the F1 games, and I am not an
> Indycar fan, so I doubt whether it would appeal. Shame, sounds like a
> bargain.
> --
> Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Stop and Look
> http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

I hear ya. I also hate seeing stuff "dumbed down" even if the eye candy is
easier on the eyeballs.

Yeah, I like open-wheel but can understand fully how others can be put off
by it. Its unfortunate that there isn't a really good F1 sim for any of the
consoles though. You would think there would be -- as isn't F1 not only the
most popular motorsport but the second most popular sport in general (first
being soccer)? Worldwide popularity that is. (In the US, it would be, of
course football/NASCAR.)

EA's "F1 Career Challenge" is absolutely horrible in all catagories. I have
my fingers crossed for Sony's upcoming F1.

Cheers!
-E

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Eras" wrote in message>

> Yeah, I like open-wheel but can understand fully how others can be put off
> by it. Its unfortunate that there isn't a really good F1 sim for any of
the
> consoles though. You would think there would be -- as isn't F1 not only
the
> most popular motorsport but the second most popular sport in general
(first
> being soccer)? Worldwide popularity that is. (In the US, it would be,
of
> course football/NASCAR.)

(Adding to same subject) ...and, of course, after what happened at the US
Grand Prix the other weekend, F1 lost much of the "progress" made in the US
in the last several years. (sigh). I'm just hoping that there isn't any
ripple effect that will damage IRL as well.

Cheers,
-E

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

theOne wrote:
>
> Paul Heslop wrote:
> > Angel wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I'm sure they have them in Britain as well but here in the US they have
> >>these false teeth that they can individually implant right into your jaw.
> >>You won't be able to tell the differance, although, they are quite expensive
> >>running into the thousands of dollars for an entire mouthful. I'm sure the
> >>operation to implant them would be somewhat tender for a few weeks to a few
> >>months afterward as well. Anyway, just something for you to look into if
> >>having no teeth bothers you at all.
> >>
> >>This site here explains a little bit about implants.
> >>http://www.vickiborowski.com/pages/solutions.htm#implants
> >>
> >
> > Yep, thanks... that's what they were planning. problem is because I am
> > not in a position to pay for it I have to go to a place called a
> > dental hospital. Basically you let them train their newbies on you
> > (eek!) only there's no worry of it happening as it should have
> > happened at least 18 months ago. I guess I am a low priority (
> >
> >
> >
> what happened to your teeth? and how old are you?

shhhhhhhhhhhhhh cough*49*cough

I found myself to be allergic to toothpaste when I was quite young.
No, don't laugh, I don't mean as in the kid being allergic to water, I
sneezed for hours at the slightest whiff and blood would come out of
my mouth and nose. not a pleasant experience. Of course being a normal
youngster I didn't give a damn. I then managed to find myself a lovely
dentist at the age of about fifteen who removed my bad tooth without
properly numbing me,and the racket we created as he basically beat me
up to get my tooth out almost made my dad knock HIS out. That was me
and dentists sorted then. I tolerated a lot of pain before each
enforced visit to a dentist to have single teeth removed and then I
had to have my hand held (And I don't just mean as a youth).

Then a couple of years ago I had had enough and went t visit a dentist
who was willing to listen to my fears etc and I honestly couldn't have
hoped for a better guy. He knew, as I did, that removal was the only
way forwards. It took about four visits, spread out, and although the
fear was still there this guy managed to keep me at ease enough to get
the lot out and to try fit the falsies. Even the mould for the plates
was a virtual disaster due to the gagging reflex. He continued the
great work by removing portions of the plate until there was hardly
enough to retain it in my mouth, then he knew we were stuck and made
an appointment at the dental hospital. I went about six months later,
had a big examination with two trainees and a senior guy who quickly
realised the problem and suggested we may have to go for implants. He
also said it would be a minimum of 18 months and here I am, over 2
years later, gumming my way through food )

sorry if that seemed a bit long winded, but it's hard to explain how
these things can happen.

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Eras wrote:
>
> "Paul Heslop" wrote in message > Eras wrote:
> > You know, one of the biggest pleasures I can recall was getting a demo
> > disc featuring the first toca. It had two tracks to test, if memory
> > serves me right, and you got to drive the Honda accord. I wanted
> > nothing more than to own the game after sending that poor car smashing
> > into every surface just to see how bad I could make it look. The
> > actual game was almost a let down, but I got into it and number 2 was
> > a great follow up. I don't know which arse biscuit came up with the
> > next Touring car game but I couldn't have hated it more if i tried.
> > What the hell was it called - world touring cars? ach! The same pretty
> > much goes for the Mcrae games. Loved the first ones to bits played
> > demo first of course. Gran turismo likewise. I guess them all being
> > new and shiny made them something else. Now we have newer and shinier
> > versions, but the originals had the advantage and it will be hard for
> > anyone to come up with an original idea for a driving game which can
> > have as big an impact.
> >
> > I had a bit of a problem getting into the F1 games, and I am not an
> > Indycar fan, so I doubt whether it would appeal. Shame, sounds like a
> > bargain.
> > --
> > Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > Stop and Look
> > http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
>
> I hear ya. I also hate seeing stuff "dumbed down" even if the eye candy is
> easier on the eyeballs.
>
> Yeah, I like open-wheel but can understand fully how others can be put off
> by it. Its unfortunate that there isn't a really good F1 sim for any of the
> consoles though. You would think there would be -- as isn't F1 not only the
> most popular motorsport but the second most popular sport in general (first
> being soccer)? Worldwide popularity that is. (In the US, it would be, of
> course football/NASCAR.)
>
> EA's "F1 Career Challenge" is absolutely horrible in all catagories. I have
> my fingers crossed for Sony's upcoming F1.
>
> Cheers!
> -E

well I've been an f1 fan since i was a kid and right from the awful
things that popped up on the old ataris I have hated open wheel racing
as a game. i really wanted the legends one to be good, the thought of
all those old cars, but I still couldn't get into it.

I'm also a rally fan and was really pleased with the earlier stuff,
but not so much on the present round of games.

TOCA, amazing! everything about those early games made you feel like
you really belonged in that car, and I felt like I knew the other
drivers, no superstar stuff there.
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Eras wrote:
>
> "Eras" wrote in message>
>
> > Yeah, I like open-wheel but can understand fully how others can be put off
> > by it. Its unfortunate that there isn't a really good F1 sim for any of
> the
> > consoles though. You would think there would be -- as isn't F1 not only
> the
> > most popular motorsport but the second most popular sport in general
> (first
> > being soccer)? Worldwide popularity that is. (In the US, it would be,
> of
> > course football/NASCAR.)
>
> (Adding to same subject) ...and, of course, after what happened at the US
> Grand Prix the other weekend, F1 lost much of the "progress" made in the US
> in the last several years. (sigh). I'm just hoping that there isn't any
> ripple effect that will damage IRL as well.
>
> Cheers,
> -E

yeah, they're all eyeing each other up and down. I wish they would
just get their damned heads together and stop acting like a bunch of
kids.

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

In article <_2Uve.40978$fp6.29634@twister.nyroc.rr.com>, "Raph" <raphs@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Quick question....my husband is a big fan of Project Gotham 2 - I know that
>is less of a sim, do you think that Forza would be a game that players of PG
>would also enjoy or is PG too much of an arcade racer to be compared?

I'd say definitely go for it. Very similar, but as has been said,
just made less arcadey in the driving physics (i.e. much less
hand-braking, more attention to vehicle balance).

Reply to Dave

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

In article <XI0we.19923$pU.1375@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com>, "Eras" <none@nospam.not> wrote:

>Its unfortunate that there isn't a really good F1 sim for any of the
>consoles though. You would think there would be -- as isn't F1 not only the
>most popular motorsport but the second most popular sport in general (first
>being soccer)? Worldwide popularity that is. (In the US, it would be, of
>course football/NASCAR.)

I've tried a few and always came away underwhelmed and
disappointed. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt by positing
that it is due to the knife-edge control of F1 cars not being well
suited to console controllers.

Reply to Dave

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:42C0A3BD.F0115109@blueyonder.co.uk...
> theOne wrote:
>>
>> Paul Heslop wrote:
>> > Angel wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>I'm sure they have them in Britain as well but here in the US they have
>> >>these false teeth that they can individually implant right into your
>> >>jaw.
>> >>You won't be able to tell the differance, although, they are quite
>> >>expensive
>> >>running into the thousands of dollars for an entire mouthful. I'm sure
>> >>the
>> >>operation to implant them would be somewhat tender for a few weeks to a
>> >>few
>> >>months afterward as well. Anyway, just something for you to look into
>> >>if
>> >>having no teeth bothers you at all.
>> >>
>> >>This site here explains a little bit about implants.
>> >>http://www.vickiborowski.com/pages/solutions.htm#implants
>> >>
>> >
>> > Yep, thanks... that's what they were planning. problem is because I am
>> > not in a position to pay for it I have to go to a place called a
>> > dental hospital. Basically you let them train their newbies on you
>> > (eek!) only there's no worry of it happening as it should have
>> > happened at least 18 months ago. I guess I am a low priority (
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> what happened to your teeth? and how old are you?
>
> shhhhhhhhhhhhhh cough*49*cough
>
> I found myself to be allergic to toothpaste when I was quite young.
> No, don't laugh, I don't mean as in the kid being allergic to water, I
> sneezed for hours at the slightest whiff and blood would come out of
> my mouth and nose. not a pleasant experience. Of course being a normal
> youngster I didn't give a damn. I then managed to find myself a lovely
> dentist at the age of about fifteen who removed my bad tooth without
> properly numbing me,and the racket we created as he basically beat me
> up to get my tooth out almost made my dad knock HIS out. That was me
> and dentists sorted then. I tolerated a lot of pain before each
> enforced visit to a dentist to have single teeth removed and then I
> had to have my hand held (And I don't just mean as a youth).
>
> Then a couple of years ago I had had enough and went t visit a dentist
> who was willing to listen to my fears etc and I honestly couldn't have
> hoped for a better guy. He knew, as I did, that removal was the only
> way forwards. It took about four visits, spread out, and although the
> fear was still there this guy managed to keep me at ease enough to get
> the lot out and to try fit the falsies. Even the mould for the plates
> was a virtual disaster due to the gagging reflex. He continued the
> great work by removing portions of the plate until there was hardly
> enough to retain it in my mouth, then he knew we were stuck and made
> an appointment at the dental hospital. I went about six months later,
> had a big examination with two trainees and a senior guy who quickly
> realised the problem and suggested we may have to go for implants. He
> also said it would be a minimum of 18 months and here I am, over 2
> years later, gumming my way through food )
>
> sorry if that seemed a bit long winded, but it's hard to explain how
> these things can happen.
>
>

Wow. Interesting read. Good luck with that.
> --
> Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Stop and Look
> http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Ron Mexico wrote:

> Wow. Interesting read. Good luck with that.
> > --
Thanks Ron!
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Ron Mexico wrote:
> "Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:42C0A3BD.F0115109@blueyonder.co.uk...
>
>>theOne wrote:
>>
>>>Paul Heslop wrote:
>>>
>>>>Angel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I'm sure they have them in Britain as well but here in the US they have
>>>>>these false teeth that they can individually implant right into your
>>>>>jaw.
>>>>>You won't be able to tell the differance, although, they are quite
>>>>>expensive
>>>>>running into the thousands of dollars for an entire mouthful. I'm sure
>>>>>the
>>>>>operation to implant them would be somewhat tender for a few weeks to a
>>>>>few
>>>>>months afterward as well. Anyway, just something for you to look into
>>>>>if
>>>>>having no teeth bothers you at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>This site here explains a little bit about implants.
>>>>>http://www.vickiborowski.com/pages/solutions.htm#implants
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Yep, thanks... that's what they were planning. problem is because I am
>>>>not in a position to pay for it I have to go to a place called a
>>>>dental hospital. Basically you let them train their newbies on you
>>>>(eek!) only there's no worry of it happening as it should have
>>>>happened at least 18 months ago. I guess I am a low priority (
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>what happened to your teeth? and how old are you?
>>
>>shhhhhhhhhhhhhh cough*49*cough
>>
>>I found myself to be allergic to toothpaste when I was quite young.
>>No, don't laugh, I don't mean as in the kid being allergic to water, I
>>sneezed for hours at the slightest whiff and blood would come out of
>>my mouth and nose. not a pleasant experience. Of course being a normal
>>youngster I didn't give a damn. I then managed to find myself a lovely
>>dentist at the age of about fifteen who removed my bad tooth without
>>properly numbing me,and the racket we created as he basically beat me
>>up to get my tooth out almost made my dad knock HIS out. That was me
>>and dentists sorted then. I tolerated a lot of pain before each
>>enforced visit to a dentist to have single teeth removed and then I
>>had to have my hand held (And I don't just mean as a youth).
>>
>>Then a couple of years ago I had had enough and went t visit a dentist
>>who was willing to listen to my fears etc and I honestly couldn't have
>>hoped for a better guy. He knew, as I did, that removal was the only
>>way forwards. It took about four visits, spread out, and although the
>>fear was still there this guy managed to keep me at ease enough to get
>>the lot out and to try fit the falsies. Even the mould for the plates
>>was a virtual disaster due to the gagging reflex. He continued the
>>great work by removing portions of the plate until there was hardly
>>enough to retain it in my mouth, then he knew we were stuck and made
>>an appointment at the dental hospital. I went about six months later,
>>had a big examination with two trainees and a senior guy who quickly
>>realised the problem and suggested we may have to go for implants. He
>>also said it would be a minimum of 18 months and here I am, over 2
>>years later, gumming my way through food )
>>
>>sorry if that seemed a bit long winded, but it's hard to explain how
>>these things can happen.
>>
>>
>
>
> Wow. Interesting read. Good luck with that.
>
>>--
>>Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
>>-------------------------------------------------------
>>Stop and Look
>>http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
>
>
>
yeah, interesting. Thanks for explaining that Paul.

Reply to theone

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

theOne wrote:

> yeah, interesting. Thanks for explaining that Paul.

you're welcome
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"X-Games" <X-Games@hotmail.com> writes:

> My knowledge of the inner workings of a vehicle is pretty much limited to
> refilling the wiper fluid.

Hey, whaddaya know, the reviewer basically tells us that they have no
ground to stand on when it comes to reviewing sim-racers.

Next, let's have a nun write a review of the Kama Sutra...

Nick

--
# sigmask (lambda deprecation version) 20041028 || feed this to a python
print ''.join([chr(ord(x)-1) for x in 'Ojdl!Wbshjti!=ojdlAwbshjti/psh?'])

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Paul Heslop wrote:

> Yep, thanks... that's what they were planning. problem is because I am
> not in a position to pay for it I have to go to a place called a
> dental hospital. Basically you let them train their newbies on you
> (eek!) only there's no worry of it happening as it should have
> happened at least 18 months ago. I guess I am a low priority (

This is what happens when you give up your dental plan for a keg of beer.

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Hank the Rapper wrote:
>
> Paul Heslop wrote:
>
> > Yep, thanks... that's what they were planning. problem is because I am
> > not in a position to pay for it I have to go to a place called a
> > dental hospital. Basically you let them train their newbies on you
> > (eek!) only there's no worry of it happening as it should have
> > happened at least 18 months ago. I guess I am a low priority (
>
> This is what happens when you give up your dental plan for a keg of beer.

) I don't drink (though I used to) and we have different systems in
the uk.

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Raph" wrote in message

> Quick question....my husband is a big fan of Project Gotham 2 - I know
that
> is less of a sim, do you think that Forza would be a game that players of
PG
> would also enjoy or is PG too much of an arcade racer to be compared?

Forza is certaintly a good game. I've gotten $50 out of it several times
over. Great car selection (Ferrari and Porsche included), deep tuning, nice
tracks, lots of "gee wiz" stuff like detailed telemetry to help aid in
tuning, online play, ect. Graphically, one of the things Microsoft aimed
for with Forza was to keep it "smoothed out" without the jaggies you'll find
in GT4. I think they did a really good job, even though as previously
mentioned in this thread that it does come across a little more "grity" and
"dark" than GT4. More of an artistic perception thing than a technical. I
do have to say that I like the graphical "tone" in GT4 more, but both look
great. Forza "holds up" much better on my HDTV than GT4 though.

I don't have PG2, but do have PG1. I never could really get into the whole
kudos "drive with style" thing so haven't played it enough to make a
comparison with Forza.

"TOCA Race Driver 2" may also be worth checking out. It has a unique
balance between sim and arcade. Anyone can easily go from sim or arcade to
TOCA2 with ease. Its only $20 and is now packaged with "Colin Mcrae 2004"
(a rally racer). Can't say that I like "CM 2004" better than "Rallysport
Challenge 2" but it is still a pretty good game. The eye candy for TOCA2
and CM2004 is photoreal. They look excellent.

As Paul mentioned, "Need For Speed" is worth a look as well. "Need For
Speed: Underground" is now a platinum greatest hit selling for $20. Its
semi-heavily on the arcade side of the spectrum. Lot of emphasis is put
into modding the "look" of your cars, which I never could really get into
but the whole "wet streets under neon signs" tone of NFSU is pretty cool.
My favorite mode in NFSU is drag racing, which is a whole heck of a lot of
fun. Drag racing sounds like it would be boring in a video game, but it is
put together nicely. It is all about gear changing at optimum RPM's, using
nitro most effectively, ect. Sense of speed is great also.

Cheers!
-E

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:

> > This is what happens when you give up your dental plan for a keg of beer.

> ) I don't drink (though I used to) and we have different systems in
> the uk.

You mean you don't get the Simpsons in the UK?

Giving up the dental plan for a keg of beer is from an episode of that
show. :^)

Nick

--
# sigmask (lambda deprecation version) 20041028 || feed this to a python
print ''.join([chr(ord(x)-1) for x in 'Ojdl!Wbshjti!=ojdlAwbshjti/psh?'])

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Nick Vargish wrote:
>
> Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
>
> > > This is what happens when you give up your dental plan for a keg of beer.
>
> > ) I don't drink (though I used to) and we have different systems in
> > the uk.
>
> You mean you don't get the Simpsons in the UK?
>
> Giving up the dental plan for a keg of beer is from an episode of that
> show. :^)
>
> Nick
>
> --
Yeah, problem is I'm kind of walking round in a daze nowadays. I
usually spot a Simpson quote from a mile off!

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Is there car damage in, Forza?
I wish there was in Gran Turismo.

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Eras wrote:

> "Raph" wrote in message
>
>
> As Paul mentioned, "Need For Speed" is worth a look as well. "Need For
> Speed: Underground" is now a platinum greatest hit selling for $20. Its
> semi-heavily on the arcade side of the spectrum. Lot of emphasis is put
> into modding the "look" of your cars, which I never could really get into
> but the whole "wet streets under neon signs" tone of NFSU is pretty cool.
> My favorite mode in NFSU is drag racing, which is a whole heck of a lot of
> fun. Drag racing sounds like it would be boring in a video game, but it is
> put together nicely. It is all about gear changing at optimum RPM's, using
> nitro most effectively, ect. Sense of speed is great also.
>
> Cheers!
> -E

I like drag racing. In the first Need For Speed Underground, I like to aim so
that only half the car goes over the ramp, resulting in a flip.

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Tom McCafferty wrote:
>
> Is there car damage in, Forza?
> I wish there was in Gran Turismo.

Oh yes. I only have mine in medium, you can set it for cosmetic or
more serious too. I tried the worst one (which gives you more bonus
points) but you lose so much from just leaving the road I decided it
wasn't worth it. So as i drive it you lose paint, smash in panels and
windows and your car can be knocked off center etc. I don't think you
can actually kill the thing but I haven't tried )

It's a really fun game and well worth the cash if you like Gran
Turismo but they're not dead ringers, there are a fair few differences
to make each game worth having.

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Tom McCafferty wrote:
> Is there car damage in, Forza?

No, but there are physics.

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

GT4 KickAss wrote:
>
> Tom McCafferty wrote:
> > Is there car damage in, Forza?
>
> No, but there are physics.

THERE IS car damage.... and here's one I did myself

http://groups.msn.com/OtherSides/g [...] hotoID=679

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

> Tom McCafferty wrote:
>
>> Is there car damage in, Forza?

for damage buy Burnout3 or toca race driver2

--
Fernando Esteves _/_/_/ _/_/_/
(o_ mailto:fe@netvisao.pt _/_/ _/_/
//\ http://fehome.cjb.net _/ _/
V_/_ Linux Registered User #190801 _/ _/_/_/

Reply to fe

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

fe wrote:
>
> > Tom McCafferty wrote:
> >
> >> Is there car damage in, Forza?
>
> for damage buy Burnout3 or toca race driver2
>
I hope this isn't a sign of fear of forza or something. Neither of
those games are similar to Gran turismo, and in fact it would be
pretty hard to find a more different driving experience than Burnout
against GT4

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

fe wrote:
>
>> Tom McCafferty wrote:
>>
>>> Is there car damage in, Forza?
>
>
> for damage buy Burnout3 or toca race driver2
>

Or Burnout 3 and Burnout Revenge the PS2 versions being superior.

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Smoke wrote:
> Quite cool conclusion as the XBOX version of burnout revenge isnt
> released yet. Not sure about the PS2 version but im pretty sure the
> XBOX version wont surface until 16 sept.
>
> So very good of you that you are able to compare something to something
> that DOESNT EVEN EXIST at this moment! You must be able to foresee the
> future!
>
> Wish i were you
>

I own both copies of the preview builds and other websites already
pointed this out. PS2 = Superior Version.

Just like Burnout 3 was.

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Smoke wrote:

> So very good of you that you are able to compare something to something
> that DOESNT EVEN EXIST at this moment! You must be able to foresee the
> future!

you mean like all those xbox 2 is better than ps3 bullshit posts?
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

In article <40b4a$42ef1baa$421392b4$15980@DIALUPUSA.NET>,
BuyMySkatePark@msn.com says...
>
>fe wrote:
>>
>>> Tom McCafferty wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is there car damage in, Forza?
>>
>>
>> for damage buy Burnout3 or toca race driver2
>>
>
>Or Burnout 3 and Burnout Revenge the PS2 versions being superior.

Sorry but your wrong(being a fanboy is ok but please keep the fanboy bullshit
to a minimum). You said both versions being superior. Here is the review for
Burnout 3 directly from Gamespot. They say that both versions are the same but
that the Xbox version wins easily in the graphics department.

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/drivi [...] iew-3.html

You need to wait for Burnout Revenge to be released in its final form to make
any bullshit statements about it. I have a feeling it will be right along the
lines of Burnout 3 though with the graphics being better on the Xbox just like
most cross platform titles. I figured you PS2 fanboys would have realized
two or three years ago that the PS2 simply can't keep up but apparently some
of you are pretty hard headed.

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

In article <42EF6DCB.4D0CB9A8@blueyonder.co.uk>, paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk
says...
>
>Smoke wrote:
>
>> So very good of you that you are able to compare something to something
>> that DOESNT EVEN EXIST at this moment! You must be able to foresee the
>> future!
>
>you mean like all those xbox 2 is better than ps3 bullshit posts?
>--
>Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
>-------------------------------------------------------
>Stop and Look
>http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

But it is.

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

MS#1Fanboy-JoJo wrote:
>
> In article <42EF6DCB.4D0CB9A8@blueyonder.co.uk>, paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk
> says...
> >
> >Smoke wrote:
> >
> >> So very good of you that you are able to compare something to something
> >> that DOESNT EVEN EXIST at this moment! You must be able to foresee the
> >> future!
> >
> >you mean like all those xbox 2 is better than ps3 bullshit posts?
> >--
> >Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
> >-------------------------------------------------------
> >Stop and Look
> >http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
>
> But it is.

of course it is... like that cloud over there is better than that
other one.
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!" )
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Reply to Anonymous

Forum Games General : Console Gaming - 'Forza' zooms past 'Gran Turismo' to winner's circle of si..

Please mind

Focus On

'Forza' zooms past 'Gran Turismo' to winner's circle of si..

Forum Games General : Console Gaming - 'Forza' zooms past 'Gran Turismo' to winner's circle of si..

Please mind