Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

A fully manual dSLR

Last response: in Digital Camera
Share
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 9:55:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Hello,

So here is a question I hope someone can answer: I am looking for a
digital SLR (6 to 8 MP). Ideally, the camera could both automatic and
fully manual (shutter speed, aperture, focus, and a light meter). Does
this exist? Years ago I bought a SLR (non-digital) but it is actually
rather complicated, virtually impossible to use it for more than a nice
automatic point-and-shoot (yes, there are all kinds of convoluted
bracketing options, etc, but you need the manual to remember them).

I would like to find a calera that combines automatic options with a
fully-manual camapility. Am I asking for something that no longer
exists? Seems like noting beats my 25 year old Ricoh SLR for
simplicity and control...

Thanks for any advice

More about : fully manual dslr

Anonymous
April 1, 2005 10:26:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

dfrancaviglia@gmail.com wrote:
> Hello,
>
> So here is a question I hope someone can answer: I am looking for a
> digital SLR (6 to 8 MP). Ideally, the camera could both automatic
and
> fully manual (shutter speed, aperture, focus, and a light meter).
Does
> this exist? Years ago I bought a SLR (non-digital) but it is
actually
> rather complicated, virtually impossible to use it for more than a
nice
> automatic point-and-shoot (yes, there are all kinds of convoluted
> bracketing options, etc, but you need the manual to remember them).

Every single DSLR on the market today meets your needs. Every one
offers complete manual control over exposure and also offers automation
in the form of aperture-priority, shutter-priority and program modes.
Some offer additional "newbie" modes in the form of portrait,
landscape, action etc. Such modes try to optimize shutter speed and
depth of field for the selected application.

Since every production DSLR meets your needs, focus on which one is
right for you. A good part of this decision will depend on which system
you'd like to get involved with. I'd recommend that you visit the
forums on www.dpreview.com for at least the following cameras: Canon
350D, Canon 20D, Nikon D70, Konica-Minolta 7D and Pentax *ist-DS. The
Canon 350D, Nikon D70 and Pentax *ist-DS are your best bets, with
excellent capabilities and all under $1000 including a starter lens.
Although it's quite cheap as well as very capable, I'd avoid the Canon
300D at this point, since the incremental cost of moving to the 350D is
small and the 350D is a much better camera.

David
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 10:30:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I should have made clear that by the 350D I mean the "Digital Rebel XT"
and by the 300D I mean the original "Digital Rebel."
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 1:01:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"David R. Greenberg" <DavidRGreenberg@gmail.com> writes:
> > So here is a question I hope someone can answer: I am looking for
> > a digital SLR (6 to 8 MP). Ideally, the camera could both
> > automatic and fully manual (shutter speed, aperture, focus, and a
> > light meter). Does this exist?
>
> Every single DSLR on the market today meets your needs. Every one
> offers complete manual control over exposure and also offers automation
> in the form of aperture-priority, shutter-priority and program modes.

No, the requirements as I read them also include metering in manual
mode. The low-end Nikons (D100/D70) can't do that. If you're using a
manual focus lens, or an AF lens on a reversing ring/bellows/whatever,
you get no metering at all. This is a significant drawback of the D70
since I'd like to be able to mount it to a telescope.
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 3:13:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On 01 Apr 2005 09:01:47 -0800, Paul Rubin
<http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid&gt; wrote:

>"David R. Greenberg" <DavidRGreenberg@gmail.com> writes:
>> > So here is a question I hope someone can answer: I am looking for
>> > a digital SLR (6 to 8 MP). Ideally, the camera could both
>> > automatic and fully manual (shutter speed, aperture, focus, and a
>> > light meter). Does this exist?
>>
>> Every single DSLR on the market today meets your needs. Every one
>> offers complete manual control over exposure and also offers automation
>> in the form of aperture-priority, shutter-priority and program modes.
>
>No, the requirements as I read them also include metering in manual
>mode. The low-end Nikons (D100/D70) can't do that. If you're using a
>manual focus lens, or an AF lens on a reversing ring/bellows/whatever,
>you get no metering at all. This is a significant drawback of the D70
>since I'd like to be able to mount it to a telescope.

Hand held light meter?
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 3:58:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

dfrancaviglia@gmail.com writes:

> So here is a question I hope someone can answer: I am looking for a
> digital SLR (6 to 8 MP). Ideally, the camera could both automatic and
> fully manual (shutter speed, aperture, focus, and a light meter). Does
> this exist? Years ago I bought a SLR (non-digital) but it is actually
> rather complicated, virtually impossible to use it for more than a nice
> automatic point-and-shoot (yes, there are all kinds of convoluted
> bracketing options, etc, but you need the manual to remember them).

Any one of them. They all do full manual control.

They all have a bazillion options and such, too, so the full set of
controls is extremely complicated in all of them -- *much* more
complicated than a film SLR, because they have everything the film SLR
has and then about a million digital-specific options on top of that.
Luckily I can ignore most of it most of the time.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:D d-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/&gt;
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/&gt;
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/&gt;
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/&gt;
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 5:03:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

<dfrancaviglia@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1112363704.418212.228350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Hello,
>
> So here is a question I hope someone can answer: I am looking for a
> digital SLR (6 to 8 MP). Ideally, the camera could both automatic and
> fully manual (shutter speed, aperture, focus, and a light meter). Does
> this exist? Years ago I bought a SLR (non-digital) but it is actually
> rather complicated, virtually impossible to use it for more than a nice
> automatic point-and-shoot (yes, there are all kinds of convoluted
> bracketing options, etc, but you need the manual to remember them).
>
> I would like to find a calera that combines automatic options with a
> fully-manual camapility. Am I asking for something that no longer
> exists? Seems like noting beats my 25 year old Ricoh SLR for
> simplicity and control...
>
> Thanks for any advice

Are you April Fooling, here??????

If not, then you haven't looked at ANYthing on the market for at some years.

Every single DSLR on the market has what you describe.
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 5:12:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

<dfrancaviglia@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> So here is a question I hope someone can answer: I am looking for a
> digital SLR (6 to 8 MP). Ideally, the camera could both automatic and
> fully manual (shutter speed, aperture, focus, and a light meter). Does
> this exist? Years ago I bought a SLR (non-digital) but it is actually
> rather complicated, virtually impossible to use it for more than a nice
> automatic point-and-shoot (yes, there are all kinds of convoluted
> bracketing options, etc, but you need the manual to remember them).
>
> I would like to find a calera that combines automatic options with a
> fully-manual camapility. Am I asking for something that no longer exists?
> Seems like noting beats my 25 year old Ricoh SLR for simplicity and
> control...

I like the Pentax *ist D(s), but just about any DSLR will have a manual
option.

You might even be able to mount and use your Ricoh's lenses on a new
DSLR. Find out for sure.
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 6:05:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

dfrancaviglia@gmail.com wrote:
> Hello,
>
> So here is a question I hope someone can answer: I am looking for a
> digital SLR (6 to 8 MP). Ideally, the camera could both automatic and
> fully manual (shutter speed, aperture, focus, and a light meter).
> Does this exist? Years ago I bought a SLR (non-digital) but it is
> actually rather complicated, virtually impossible to use it for more
> than a nice automatic point-and-shoot (yes, there are all kinds of
> convoluted bracketing options, etc, but you need the manual to
> remember them).
>
> I would like to find a calera that combines automatic options with a
> fully-manual camapility. Am I asking for something that no longer
> exists? Seems like noting beats my 25 year old Ricoh SLR for
> simplicity and control...
>
> Thanks for any advice

Take a look at the Canon 20D (also check out the other dSLR's from
Canon. I believe the Nikon equivalent also can go full manual.


--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 6:30:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <1112363704.418212.228350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
<dfrancaviglia@gmail.com> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>So here is a question I hope someone can answer: I am looking for a
>digital SLR (6 to 8 MP). Ideally, the camera could both automatic and
>fully manual (shutter speed, aperture, focus, and a light meter). Does
>this exist?

I think they all work like that. The Canons certainly do. On my 10D, I just
switch it to M, and I'm away. Don't even need to flip the AF disable switch
on the lens if it's a USM lens, because I have the autofocus bound to one of
the extra buttons on the back, and not a shutter half-press. Taking a
picture is just a matter of setting the aperture, shutter speed, turning the
focus ring, and squeezing the shutter release.

>I would like to find a calera that combines automatic options with a
>fully-manual camapility. Am I asking for something that no longer
>exists?

Depending on what lenses you have, I'd suggest taking a look at any of:

Canon 20D and 350D
Pentax *ist D and *ist DS
Nikon D70
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 6:47:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On 1 Apr 2005 05:55:04 -0800, dfrancaviglia@gmail.com wrote:

>Hello,
>
>So here is a question I hope someone can answer: I am looking for a
>digital SLR (6 to 8 MP). Ideally, the camera could both automatic and
>fully manual (shutter speed, aperture, focus, and a light meter). Does
>this exist? Years ago I bought a SLR (non-digital) but it is actually
>rather complicated, virtually impossible to use it for more than a nice
>automatic point-and-shoot (yes, there are all kinds of convoluted
>bracketing options, etc, but you need the manual to remember them).
>
>I would like to find a calera that combines automatic options with a
>fully-manual camapility. Am I asking for something that no longer
>exists? Seems like noting beats my 25 year old Ricoh SLR for
>simplicity and control...
>
>Thanks for any advice

I think many DSLRs will do this. The one problem they all share is
also common with most AF film bodies. Manual focusing can be a bitch
because the screen helper tools are not there.

Not sure if you want some specific manual control but generally they
allow you to:

Choose the shutter speed.
Choose the aperture.
Choose the ISO.
Manually focus.
Choose the flash output power.

Because of the digital darkroom, you will actually enjoy far more
control over the whole process than you ever did with film. (Guessing
here that you didn't have a color processing lab at home).

Because to the zero cost per frame shot, you will also enjoy playing
and exploring methods of photography that you may have never done with
film. Some examples: Infra-Red, Under-water, Astronomy, Shooting 3
frames per second until you get bored, compositing bracketed
exposures, storm photography, photo diary, panoramics, 3D, flash
gels.. there's lots more.

--
Owamanga!
http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 8:21:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

: Because to the zero cost per frame shot, you will also enjoy playing
: and exploring methods of photography that you may have never done with
: film.

Something perhaps worth thinking about is the life of the shutter. They're
often spec'd at a MTBF of 40k-100k life. Amortized cost on a $1000 camera with a
shutter life of 100,000 cycles is a penny a picture. Food for thought is all, as most
will want to get a newer camera before hitting that life cycle limit.

-Cory

*************************************************************************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
*************************************************************************
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 8:21:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

papenfussDIESPAM@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu writes:
> Something perhaps worth thinking about is the life of the
> shutter. They're often spec'd at a MTBF of 40k-100k life.
> Amortized cost on a $1000 camera with a shutter life of 100,000
> cycles is a penny a picture. Food for thought is all, as most will
> want to get a newer camera before hitting that life cycle limit.

I don't see why shutter replacement on a DSLR should cost more than it
did on a comparable film SLR, i.e. maybe in the $200 range. But I don't
know of any $1000 DSLR's likely to last 40k cycles, much less 100k.
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 8:43:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 16:21:42 +0000 (UTC),
papenfussDIESPAM@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu wrote:

>: Because to the zero cost per frame shot, you will also enjoy playing
>: and exploring methods of photography that you may have never done with
>: film.
>
> Something perhaps worth thinking about is the life of the shutter. They're
>often spec'd at a MTBF of 40k-100k life. Amortized cost on a $1000 camera with a
>shutter life of 100,000 cycles is a penny a picture. Food for thought is all, as most
>will want to get a newer camera before hitting that life cycle limit.

Indeed, there is no such thing as a free lunch. But shouldn't you have
amortized the cost of a replacement shutter / shutter repair ? Even if
that's wrong, if the replacement in 4 years time is only $500, due to
market forces, isn't that the realistic number to use (not an
accountant, as you can probably tell).

Even at this calculated rate, people in the UK get two pictures for a
penny, in the US we only get one.

I think I average at slightly under 1,000 a month, so my D70 would
last me 8 years if I get the higher end of the MTBF. I'll be needing
an excuse to upgrade way before then :-)

--
Owamanga!
http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 9:18:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On 01 Apr 2005 09:01:47 -0800, Paul Rubin
<http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid&gt; wrote:

>"David R. Greenberg" <DavidRGreenberg@gmail.com> writes:
>> > So here is a question I hope someone can answer: I am looking for
>> > a digital SLR (6 to 8 MP). Ideally, the camera could both
>> > automatic and fully manual (shutter speed, aperture, focus, and a
>> > light meter). Does this exist?
>>
>> Every single DSLR on the market today meets your needs. Every one
>> offers complete manual control over exposure and also offers automation
>> in the form of aperture-priority, shutter-priority and program modes.
>
>No, the requirements as I read them also include metering in manual
>mode. The low-end Nikons (D100/D70) can't do that. If you're using a
>manual focus lens, or an AF lens on a reversing ring/bellows/whatever,
>you get no metering at all.

He said fully manual. TTL metering would be an automatic feature ;-)

>This is a significant drawback of the D70
>since I'd like to be able to mount it to a telescope.

Come on, you weren't seriously going to get the D70 to meter telescope
shots were you? (I presume you mean astronomy here).

If the D70 will open the shutter, just use experience for metering.
I've seen people using a D70 on a meade with a T-mount without
complaint.

--
Owamanga!
http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 9:18:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Owamanga <owamanga(not-this-bit)@hotmail.com> writes:
> >> > So here is a question I hope someone can answer: I am looking for
> >> > a digital SLR (6 to 8 MP). Ideally, the camera could both
> >> > automatic and fully manual (shutter speed, aperture, focus, and a
> >> > light meter). Does this exist?
> >>>...
> He said fully manual. TTL metering would be an automatic feature ;-)

Sounds to me like he wants to be able to use the camera as a manual
light meter. You can do that with most SLR's, but not the D70/D100
and its film counterpart the N70 and a few of the N70's relatives.

> >This is a significant drawback of the D70 since I'd like to be able
> >to mount it to a telescope.
>
> Come on, you weren't seriously going to get the D70 to meter telescope
> shots were you?

Yes, Meade ETX90 with T-mount.

> (I presume you mean astronomy here).

No, just using the telescope as a long telephoto lens on the ground.

> If the D70 will open the shutter, just use experience for metering.
> I've seen people using a D70 on a meade with a T-mount without
> complaint.

Yes, your D70 turns into a 1950's-era Nikon F with no metering. You do
get to use the LCD display and histogram to make adjustments quickly.
However, if that were no big deal, they could omit metering from the D70
altogether.
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 9:24:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On 01 Apr 2005 09:03:34 -0800, Paul Rubin
<http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid&gt; wrote:

>papenfussDIESPAM@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu writes:
>> Something perhaps worth thinking about is the life of the
>> shutter. They're often spec'd at a MTBF of 40k-100k life.
>> Amortized cost on a $1000 camera with a shutter life of 100,000
>> cycles is a penny a picture. Food for thought is all, as most will
>> want to get a newer camera before hitting that life cycle limit.
>
>I don't see why shutter replacement on a DSLR should cost more than it
>did on a comparable film SLR, i.e. maybe in the $200 range. But I don't
>know of any $1000 DSLR's likely to last 40k cycles, much less 100k.

There *must* be people who have exceeded 40,000 shots already on these
things. In continuous shooting mode, it would take less than 4 hours
to do this.

--
Owamanga!
http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 9:24:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Owamanga <owamanga(not-this-bit)@hotmail.com> writes:
> >I don't see why shutter replacement on a DSLR should cost more than it
> >did on a comparable film SLR, i.e. maybe in the $200 range. But I don't
> >know of any $1000 DSLR's likely to last 40k cycles, much less 100k.
>
> There *must* be people who have exceeded 40,000 shots already on these
> things. In continuous shooting mode, it would take less than 4 hours
> to do this.

Yes, for example I have an interest in using a DSLR for a large
document copying project, which involves much more than 40k shots.
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 11:37:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx@nospam.invalid&gt; wrote:
: No, the requirements as I read them also include metering in manual
: mode. The low-end Nikons (D100/D70) can't do that. If you're using a
: manual focus lens, or an AF lens on a reversing ring/bellows/whatever,
: you get no metering at all. This is a significant drawback of the D70
: since I'd like to be able to mount it to a telescope.

The Pentax *ist-D and *ist-DS work with TTL metering (stop-down) on a manual
everything lens. Pretty much all DSLRs will let you manually set aperture and shutter
speed.

If you are doing astronomy-type stuff, the cameras typically won't meter with
that little light.

-Cory

*************************************************************************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
*************************************************************************
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 11:39:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Owamanga <owamanga(not-this-bit)@hotmail.com> wrote:
: Indeed, there is no such thing as a free lunch. But shouldn't you have
: amortized the cost of a replacement shutter / shutter repair ? Even if
: that's wrong, if the replacement in 4 years time is only $500, due to
: market forces, isn't that the realistic number to use (not an
: accountant, as you can probably tell).

Yes, but unless you're using it up unreasonably quickly (<1-2 years), most
likely it wouldn't make financial sense to repair your 4 year old camera for $500 if
you can buy a new, better, replacement for $700. More likely, in 4 years it'll be
repair your old one for $400 or buy a new, better one for $500.

-Cory

*************************************************************************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
*************************************************************************
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 1:30:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 13:12:53 -0800, usenet@mile23.c0m (Paul Mitchum)
wrote:

>I like the Pentax *ist D(s), but just about any DSLR will have a manual
>option.
>
>You might even be able to mount and use your Ricoh's lenses on a new
>DSLR. Find out for sure.

Lens technology has come a long way in 25 years. I'd suggest this
might not be a good idea. Make your decision on other factors.

Firstly, the brand (modifying a previous post on this subject, and
including a lot of input from CJ Campbell):

If you use (or like the look of, want to get one etc,) Apple Macintosh
then buy a Canon. Linux and PC users should go for Nikon. If you have
no preference on OS, Canon is right for you.

I'm not suggesting anything about compatibility here, it's simply
about the type of person you are.

Here's more ways to decide (and I'll bet you'll come to the same
answer):

If you like wearing black, or other dark solid colors or like clothes
with high neck-lines you are a Canon man. If hawaiian shirts, exposed
hairy chest etc is more your thing, then Nikon.

Champagne or Wine drinker = Canon, Beer drinker = Nikon.
Anything with alcohol = Nikon.

Classical music = Canon,
Proper stuff = Nikon

Church every Sunday = Canon.
Church on deaths, marriages and births = Nikon.

Catholic = Canon (of course)
Mormon = Nikon
Christian Fundamentalist = Point and Shoot
Atheist = Fuji

Commercial airline traveler = Canon
Fly your own private plane = Nikon

Volvo driver = Canon
Harley hog = Nikon

Sneakers & Jeans = Nikon
Doesn't shave on a Saturday = Nikon

Backpack, plastic bag or sports bag = Nikon
Suitcase or suit carrier = Canon.

Oatmeal for breakfast = Canon
Steak and eggs = Nikon

Ski = Canon
Snowboard = Canon
Snow bunny = Canon
Avalanche Patrol = Nikon

Baja = Canon
Belize or Costa Rica = Nikon

Fly fishing = Canon
Fish with worms = Nikon
Don't have a fishing license, but fish anyway = Nikon

John Grisham = Canon
Tom Clancy = Nikon
Stephen King = Fuji

Republican = Canon
Democrat = Canon
"Independent" = Canon
Libertarian = Nikon

Soccer = Canon
Rugby = Canon
Basketball = Canon
Everybody else = Nikon

Pop music = Canon
Burning Man Festival = Nikon

--
Owamanga!
http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 1:30:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Owamanga <owamanga(not-this-bit)@hotmail.com> wrote:

[..]
> Pop music = Canon
> Burning Man Festival = Nikon

Wrong.

Pop music = Canon or Nikon, take your pick.

Burning Man Festival = Remote-controlled Polaroid suspended from a kite.
Pictures flutter down to whomever ends up finding them.
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 2:20:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Although all the DSLRs will provide manual operation, the way they do it is
clunky, slow and inconvenient.
A decent manual film SLR (not one of the menu driven techno-cobbles) offers
a shutter speed dial and an aperture ring.
There is no groping through menus - everything falls to hand.
Yes, modern DSLRs can do it ... but by default, as an option that you have
to use consciously rather than intuitively.
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 2:20:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Tumbleweed <Shovels@five.paces> wrote:

> Although all the DSLRs will provide manual operation, the way they do it is
> clunky, slow and inconvenient.
> A decent manual film SLR (not one of the menu driven techno-cobbles) offers
> a shutter speed dial and an aperture ring.
> There is no groping through menus - everything falls to hand.
> Yes, modern DSLRs can do it ... but by default, as an option that you have
> to use consciously rather than intuitively.

This is why I like the Pentax *istDS. You put it in manual mode (turn
the big dial on top to 'M'), and the thumb dial adjusts the shutter
speed. Hold down a button, and the dial adjusts the aperture. If you
have a lens with an aperture ring, set it there instead. Press the AEL
button (next to the thumb wheel) and get a meter reading in +/- Av.

That's it. No groping through menus. No need to even take your face away
from the back of the camera.
April 2, 2005 3:13:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

usenet+AEA-mile23.c0m (Paul Mitchum) wrote in
news:1gucexx.17wo6j5bcnubkN+ACU-usenet+AEA-mile23.c0m:

> Tumbleweed <Shovels>five.paces> wrote:
>
>> Although all the DSLRs will provide manual operation, the way they do
>> it is clunky, slow and inconvenient.
>> A decent manual film SLR (not one of the menu driven techno-cobbles)
>> offers a shutter speed dial and an aperture ring.
>> There is no groping through menus - everything falls to hand.
>> Yes, modern DSLRs can do it ... but by default, as an option that you
>> have to use consciously rather than intuitively.
>
> This is why I like the Pentax +ACo-istDS. You put it in manual mode (turn
> the big dial on top to 'M'), and the thumb dial adjusts the shutter
> speed. Hold down a button, and the dial adjusts the aperture. If you
> have a lens with an aperture ring, set it there instead. Press the AEL
> button (next to the thumb wheel) and get a meter reading in Av.
>
> That's it. No groping through menus. No need to even take your face
> away from the back of the camera.

Even easier on my Canon 10D. Set the wheel to 'M' and then the big wheel
by my right thumb with control the aperture, the small wheel near my
forefinger controls the shutter speed. I can keep the camera to my eye,
adjust the aperture and shutter speed and see the metering info as well as
the setting I am changing in the viewfinder. I believe the 20D is setup
the same way.


--
Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 20-Jan-05)
+ACI-There are 10 types of people, those that
understand binary and those that don't+ACI-
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 4:45:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On 1 Apr 2005 05:55:04 -0800, in
<1112363704.418212.228350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
dfrancaviglia@gmail.com said:

>Hello,
>
>So here is a question I hope someone can answer: I am looking for a
>digital SLR (6 to 8 MP). Ideally, the camera could both automatic and
>fully manual (shutter speed, aperture, focus, and a light meter). Does
>this exist?

Any of the current 'prosumer' (I hate that term!) or professional DSLRs
can be switched to fully manual mode. I like Canon, so I'd recommend the
EOS 350D or 20D (depending on your budget), but any of the other
big-name (Nikon, etc) DSLRs should easily meet your requirements.
If you're on a tight budget, now would be a good time to purchase a used
6MP+ DSLR, such as the Canon 10D (the model I use now), because lots of
people are selling them to upgrade to the latest 8MP+ models.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 11:05:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid&gt; wrote in
news:7x1x9us91b.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com:

> Owamanga <owamanga(not-this-bit)@hotmail.com> writes:
>> >> > So here is a question I hope someone can answer: I am looking for
>> >> > a digital SLR (6 to 8 MP). Ideally, the camera could both
>> >> > automatic and fully manual (shutter speed, aperture, focus, and a
>> >> > light meter). Does this exist?
>> >>>...
>> He said fully manual. TTL metering would be an automatic feature ;-)
>
> Sounds to me like he wants to be able to use the camera as a manual
> light meter. You can do that with most SLR's, but not the D70/D100
> and its film counterpart the N70 and a few of the N70's relatives.
>
I am confused by this statement, I use the D70 to manually meter what do
you mean by this?

Mick Brown
www.photo.net/photos/mlbrown
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 11:05:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Mick Brown <nmcs_remove_@bigpond.net.au> writes:
> I am confused by this statement, I use the D70 to manually meter what do
> you mean by this?

I don't own a D70 (yet) but every report I've seen says you can't
meter with the D70, even manually, unless you have an autofocus lens
mounted. I own a lot of manual focus Nikon lenses, so this aspect of
the D70 is frustrating.
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 11:10:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Tumbleweed" <Shovels@five.paces> wrote in
news:D 2kduk$brs$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk:

>
> Although all the DSLRs will provide manual operation, the way they do
> it is clunky, slow and inconvenient.
> A decent manual film SLR (not one of the menu driven techno-cobbles)
> offers a shutter speed dial and an aperture ring.
> There is no groping through menus - everything falls to hand.
> Yes, modern DSLRs can do it ... but by default, as an option that you
> have to use consciously rather than intuitively.
>
>

Sorry but that is a crock, I dont know about the canons or pentaxes, but my
D70 controls are very much the same as the film equivalents, set to Manual,
use 2 well posistioned dials to set speed and aperture, I dont need to look
at the menus, the only thing you need to remember is to set the film speed
(and this is an advantage not a disadvantage).

Mick Brown
www.photo.net/photos/mlbrown
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 11:11:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"MarkH" <markat@atdot.dot.dot> wrote in message
news:1Ak3e.6937205$f47.1272639@news.easynews.com...
> usenet+AEA-mile23.c0m (Paul Mitchum) wrote in
> news:1gucexx.17wo6j5bcnubkN+ACU-usenet+AEA-mile23.c0m:
>
>> Tumbleweed <Shovels>five.paces> wrote:
>>
>>> Although all the DSLRs will provide manual operation, the way they do
>>> it is clunky, slow and inconvenient.
>>> A decent manual film SLR (not one of the menu driven techno-cobbles)
>>> offers a shutter speed dial and an aperture ring.
>>> There is no groping through menus - everything falls to hand.
>>> Yes, modern DSLRs can do it ... but by default, as an option that you
>>> have to use consciously rather than intuitively.
>>
>> This is why I like the Pentax +ACo-istDS. You put it in manual mode (turn
>> the big dial on top to 'M'), and the thumb dial adjusts the shutter
>> speed. Hold down a button, and the dial adjusts the aperture. If you
>> have a lens with an aperture ring, set it there instead. Press the AEL
>> button (next to the thumb wheel) and get a meter reading in Av.
>>
>> That's it. No groping through menus. No need to even take your face
>> away from the back of the camera.
>
> Even easier on my Canon 10D. Set the wheel to 'M' and then the big wheel
> by my right thumb with control the aperture, the small wheel near my
> forefinger controls the shutter speed. I can keep the camera to my eye,
> adjust the aperture and shutter speed and see the metering info as well as
> the setting I am changing in the viewfinder. I believe the 20D is setup
> the same way.
>

It is indeed.

I tried out this operation before purchase to make sure I could work with
the camera. The reason being of my two old SLR bodies my preference was for
the old match needle system of the FTb. The Canon SLRs produce a similar
effect except the needle is now a viewfinder under/over exposure bar scale
and the thumb operation of the aperture.

Having said that I am mostly operating with shutter priority and dialling in
exposure compensation as I need. This is quick and easy using the thumb
wheel.

Lester
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 1:27:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid&gt; writes:

> Mick Brown <nmcs_remove_@bigpond.net.au> writes:
> > I am confused by this statement, I use the D70 to manually meter what do
> > you mean by this?
>
> I don't own a D70 (yet) but every report I've seen says you can't
> meter with the D70, even manually, unless you have an autofocus lens
> mounted. I own a lot of manual focus Nikon lenses, so this aspect of
> the D70 is frustrating.

However there are other DSLRs that can meter with manual focus lenses using
stop down metering (first focus at the lenses brightest, then stop down the
lens to what you want to use, and use aperture priority mode). For example, my
Olympus E-1 can take adaptors for Olympus OM, Nikon, Leica, Pentex, Contax, and
Exakta lenses:
http://www.cameraquest.com/adaptnew.htm#Olympus%20E-1%2...

There is also a free Olympus OM adaptor that most of the Olympus centers will
send out. I have one on order, but it hasn't arrived yet, so I can't say from
direct experience how well it works.

--
Michael Meissner
email: mrmnews@the-meissners.org
http://www.the-meissners.org
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 4:06:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On 01 Apr 2005 23:21:54 -0800, Paul Rubin
<http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid&gt; wrote:

>Mick Brown <nmcs_remove_@bigpond.net.au> writes:
>> I am confused by this statement, I use the D70 to manually meter what do
>> you mean by this?
>
>I don't own a D70 (yet) but every report I've seen says you can't
>meter with the D70, even manually, unless you have an autofocus lens
>mounted. I own a lot of manual focus Nikon lenses, so this aspect of
>the D70 is frustrating.

What's the problem in manual mode of using a light meter. I've done
that for 40 years with a collection of Lecias. An if you will watch
the documentary "War Photographer" about the work of James Nachtwey
you'll see him every time he's starting to work out comes a Minolta
meter and he takes an incident reading set the camera then goes to
work. This is with a Canon EOS 1V (two of them).

So I don't see why if you want to do manual and then you are wanting
the camera to do metering.


*********************************************************

"I have been a witness, and these pictures are
my testimony. The events I have recorded should
not be forgotten and must not be repeated."

-James Nachtwey-
http://www.jamesnachtwey.com/
April 2, 2005 5:35:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

dfrancaviglia@gmail.com wrote:

> Hello,
>

>
> I would like to find a calera that combines automatic options with a
> fully-manual camapility.

All dSLR's have a "full manual mode", one thing they don't all have is a
focus screen that works well manually focusing. Many seem to lean towards
screen brightness giving up contrast and the ability to focus manually in
the process. This leaves you at the mercy of the AF and hopeing the camera
can read you mind and know where you want the focus plane!

I'd sugest -you- go try out some different models yourself and see which
seen easy to you then buy it from the place you go to look at them.
--

Stacey
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 5:39:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid&gt; wrote in
news:7xis357iel.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com:

> Mick Brown <nmcs_remove_@bigpond.net.au> writes:
>> I am confused by this statement, I use the D70 to manually meter what
>> do you mean by this?
>
> I don't own a D70 (yet) but every report I've seen says you can't
> meter with the D70, even manually, unless you have an autofocus lens
> mounted. I own a lot of manual focus Nikon lenses, so this aspect of
> the D70 is frustrating.

Ok now I see what you are saying. Yes I believe that is the case, as I
don't have any older MF lenses I didn't think of that. Then again the OP
didn't mention anything about currently only having manual lenses, he just
wants something he can use in manual, which you can on this camera and all
lenses from Nikon.

Mick Brown
www.photo.net/photos/mlbrown
Anonymous
April 3, 2005 3:51:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"David R. Greenberg" <DavidRGreenberg@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1112365577.598424.142730@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> dfrancaviglia@gmail.com wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > So here is a question I hope someone can answer: I am looking for a
> > digital SLR (6 to 8 MP). Ideally, the camera could both automatic
> and
> > fully manual (shutter speed, aperture, focus, and a light meter).
> Does
> > this exist? Years ago I bought a SLR (non-digital) but it is
> actually
> > rather complicated, virtually impossible to use it for more than a
> nice
> > automatic point-and-shoot (yes, there are all kinds of convoluted
> > bracketing options, etc, but you need the manual to remember them).
>
> Every single DSLR on the market today meets your needs. Every one
> offers complete manual control over exposure and also offers automation
> in the form of aperture-priority, shutter-priority and program modes.
> Some offer additional "newbie" modes in the form of portrait,
> landscape, action etc. Such modes try to optimize shutter speed and
> depth of field for the selected application.
>
> Since every production DSLR meets your needs, focus on which one is
> right for you. A good part of this decision will depend on which system
> you'd like to get involved with. I'd recommend that you visit the
> forums on www.dpreview.com for at least the following cameras: Canon
> 350D, Canon 20D, Nikon D70, Konica-Minolta 7D and Pentax *ist-DS. The
> Canon 350D, Nikon D70 and Pentax *ist-DS are your best bets, with
> excellent capabilities and all under $1000 including a starter lens.
> Although it's quite cheap as well as very capable, I'd avoid the Canon
> 300D at this point, since the incremental cost of moving to the 350D is
> small and the 350D is a much better camera.
>
> David
Might also consider a used 300d...
Anonymous
April 3, 2005 7:25:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Mick Brown <nmcs_remove_@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>"Tumbleweed" <Shovels@five.paces> wrote in
>news:D 2kduk$brs$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk:

>>
>> Although all the DSLRs will provide manual operation, the way they do
>> it is clunky, slow and inconvenient.
>> A decent manual film SLR (not one of the menu driven techno-cobbles)
>> offers a shutter speed dial and an aperture ring.
>> There is no groping through menus - everything falls to hand.
>> Yes, modern DSLRs can do it ... but by default, as an option that you
>> have to use consciously rather than intuitively.
>>
>>

>Sorry but that is a crock, I dont know about the canons or pentaxes, but my
>D70 controls are very much the same as the film equivalents, set to Manual,
>use 2 well posistioned dials to set speed and aperture, I dont need to look
>at the menus, the only thing you need to remember is to set the film speed
>(and this is an advantage not a disadvantage).

I think that the main thing missing from a dSLR in manual
mode is a decent way to manually focus.

Manual focus is an excellent way to ensure that what you want
in the shot is in focus and what you want out of focus is
out of focus.

But this capability has been gone even from film SLRs for
such a long time that I'm sure that few young folks have
ever used it.

As a minor point, full manual would have the equivalent of
an aperture ring probably implemented as a wheel. What
one wants is to be able to control shutter speed, aperture,
and focus without having to do more than turn something.
No button presses or control sequences.

--- Paul J. Gans
Anonymous
April 3, 2005 9:39:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Tumbleweed" <Shovels@five.paces> wrote in message
news:D 2kduk$brs$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> Although all the DSLRs will provide manual operation, the way they do it
> is clunky, slow and inconvenient.
> A decent manual film SLR (not one of the menu driven techno-cobbles)
> offers a shutter speed dial and an aperture ring.
> There is no groping through menus - everything falls to hand.
> Yes, modern DSLRs can do it ... but by default, as an option that you have
> to use consciously rather than intuitively.
>
Have you ever actually used a DSLR? Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Minolta and
Olympus DSLRs don't work that way. None of them require "groping through
menus," all have direct controls over shutter speed and aperture, even
though some of the mfrs. have done away with aperture rings on the lenses.
Our Canon DSLRs (D30 and 2 20Ds) use a wheel behind the shutter button for
shutter speed, a large thumb wheel on the back of the camera for aperture.
Other cameras have other, similar, controls.

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
Anonymous
April 3, 2005 9:45:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Paul J Gans" <gans@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 2nk7g$hfh$1@reader1.panix.com...
>
> I think that the main thing missing from a dSLR in manual
> mode is a decent way to manually focus.
>
> Manual focus is an excellent way to ensure that what you want
> in the shot is in focus and what you want out of focus is
> out of focus.
>
> But this capability has been gone even from film SLRs for
> such a long time that I'm sure that few young folks have
> ever used it.
>
> As a minor point, full manual would have the equivalent of
> an aperture ring probably implemented as a wheel. What
> one wants is to be able to control shutter speed, aperture,
> and focus without having to do more than turn something.
> No button presses or control sequences.
>
> --- Paul J. Gans

My Canon 20D uses a thumb wheel on the back of the camera for that very
purpose. So, in full manual, I turn the wheel by the shutter button for
shutter speed, the thumb wheel on the back for aperture and the focus ring
on the lens for focus. Simple...
And besides what David said about the focus points on a DSLR, the focus
confirmation light is an aid in manual focusing, plus, some (expensive)
Canon DSLRS have interchangeable focus screens, among which are split image
screens.

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
Anonymous
April 3, 2005 9:56:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Skip M" <shadowcatcher@cox.net> writes:
> Have you ever actually used a DSLR? Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Minolta and
> Olympus DSLRs don't work that way. None of them require "groping through
> menus," all have direct controls over shutter speed and aperture, even
> though some of the mfrs. have done away with aperture rings on the lenses.
> Our Canon DSLRs (D30 and 2 20Ds) use a wheel behind the shutter button for
> shutter speed, a large thumb wheel on the back of the camera for aperture.
> Other cameras have other, similar, controls.

I've used an EOS Rebel and it had a command dial that switched around
between various functions. If those wheels on the D30 and 20D are
like that, i.e. if they're ever used for anything other than setting
the shutter speed and aperture, that makes them confusing.
Anonymous
April 3, 2005 11:55:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid&gt; wrote in message
news:7x1x9syq6y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> "Skip M" <shadowcatcher@cox.net> writes:
>> Have you ever actually used a DSLR? Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Minolta and
>> Olympus DSLRs don't work that way. None of them require "groping through
>> menus," all have direct controls over shutter speed and aperture, even
>> though some of the mfrs. have done away with aperture rings on the
>> lenses.
>> Our Canon DSLRs (D30 and 2 20Ds) use a wheel behind the shutter button
>> for
>> shutter speed, a large thumb wheel on the back of the camera for
>> aperture.
>> Other cameras have other, similar, controls.
>
> I've used an EOS Rebel and it had a command dial that switched around
> between various functions. If those wheels on the D30 and 20D are
> like that, i.e. if they're ever used for anything other than setting
> the shutter speed and aperture, that makes them confusing.

Their default function is to control exposure, i.e. aperture and shutter.
Menu linked functions are also controlled by the thumb wheel, like scrolling
through the menu itself. Very little confusion when shooting, fairly
intuitive, even if you're not used to the controls from Canon's AF film
cameras.
The "command dial" is the one on top of the camera, to the left. It
controls functions like M, P, Av, Tv and the basic modes.

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
Anonymous
April 3, 2005 2:28:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

What do you mean by screen helper tools?

mike

"Owamanga" <owamanga(not-this-bit)@hotmail.com> wrote in message >

> I think many DSLRs will do this. The one problem they all share is
> also common with most AF film bodies. Manual focusing can be a bitch
> because the screen helper tools are not there.
>
> --
> Owamanga!
> http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
Anonymous
April 3, 2005 3:07:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

The Maxxum 7D has a manual focus button right at your right thumb that you
can set to hold or toggle. The aperture and shutter can be set with a
thumbwheel and finger wheel for each and you can watch the settings change
in the viewfinder. Clutzy as I am with camera controls and as new as I am to
this camera, I was able to easily and quickly change to manual with any
combination of options. No menus involved, except for changing the white
balance point. Got a lot of practice at my kids Family Fun Night at their
school the other day.

One strange thing I found was that even though there were flourescent
lights, the truest color was with a setting of Tungsten +2.

mike

"Tumbleweed" <Shovels@five.paces> wrote in message
news:D 2kduk$brs$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> Although all the DSLRs will provide manual operation, the way they do it
> is clunky, slow and inconvenient.
> A decent manual film SLR (not one of the menu driven techno-cobbles)
> offers a shutter speed dial and an aperture ring.
> There is no groping through menus - everything falls to hand.
> Yes, modern DSLRs can do it ... but by default, as an option that you have
> to use consciously rather than intuitively.
>
Anonymous
April 3, 2005 3:14:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Let's see. I ride a Harley, fly my own plane, athiest, sneakers and jeans,
steak and eggs, rock and roll, Tom Clancy, Democrat, and would really like
to go to the burning man festival.

I have a Nikon 8008s, Pentax K1000, Minolta SRT101, Mamiya C330, Canon
Powershot 80, and a Konica Minolta Maxxum 7D ( and still can't get a decent
shot).

Guess I have it all covered.

My wife claims I can never have too many cameras or too many coats.

mike

"Owamanga" <owamanga(not-this-bit)@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> If you like wearing black, or other dark solid colors or like clothes
> with high neck-lines you are a Canon man. If hawaiian shirts, exposed
> hairy chest etc is more your thing, then Nikon.
>
> Champagne or Wine drinker = Canon, Beer drinker = Nikon.
> Anything with alcohol = Nikon.
>
> Classical music = Canon,
> Proper stuff = Nikon
>
> Church every Sunday = Canon.
> Church on deaths, marriages and births = Nikon.
>
> Catholic = Canon (of course)
> Mormon = Nikon
> Christian Fundamentalist = Point and Shoot
> Atheist = Fuji
>
> Commercial airline traveler = Canon
> Fly your own private plane = Nikon
>
> Volvo driver = Canon
> Harley hog = Nikon
>
> Sneakers & Jeans = Nikon
> Doesn't shave on a Saturday = Nikon
>
> Backpack, plastic bag or sports bag = Nikon
> Suitcase or suit carrier = Canon.
>
> Oatmeal for breakfast = Canon
> Steak and eggs = Nikon
>
> Ski = Canon
> Snowboard = Canon
> Snow bunny = Canon
> Avalanche Patrol = Nikon
>
> Baja = Canon
> Belize or Costa Rica = Nikon
>
> Fly fishing = Canon
> Fish with worms = Nikon
> Don't have a fishing license, but fish anyway = Nikon
>
> John Grisham = Canon
> Tom Clancy = Nikon
> Stephen King = Fuji
>
> Republican = Canon
> Democrat = Canon
> "Independent" = Canon
> Libertarian = Nikon
>
> Soccer = Canon
> Rugby = Canon
> Basketball = Canon
> Everybody else = Nikon
>
> Pop music = Canon
> Burning Man Festival = Nikon
>
> --
> Owamanga!
> http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
Anonymous
April 3, 2005 4:46:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Paul J Gans" <gans@panix.com> wrote:
> Mick Brown <nmcs_remove_@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
> >Sorry but that is a crock, I dont know about the canons or pentaxes, but
my
> >D70 controls are very much the same as the film equivalents, set to
Manual,
> >use 2 well posistioned dials to set speed and aperture, I dont need to
look
> >at the menus, the only thing you need to remember is to set the film
speed
> >(and this is an advantage not a disadvantage).
>
> I think that the main thing missing from a dSLR in manual
> mode is a decent way to manually focus.
>
> Manual focus is an excellent way to ensure that what you want
> in the shot is in focus and what you want out of focus is
> out of focus.

True, but for that, the 300D at least, is better than any film SLR I've ever
owned. With a film SLR, you only get one rather awkward focus assist (split
image and/or microprism), whereas the 300D will tell you which of all 7 of
the focus points is in focus as you manually focus. Since there are a lot of
things that are really hard to focus on with a split image and/or
microprism, I find manual focus with the 300D a lot better.

> But this capability has been gone even from film SLRs for
> such a long time that I'm sure that few young folks have
> ever used it.

It's right there in every dSLR I know of...

> As a minor point, full manual would have the equivalent of
> an aperture ring probably implemented as a wheel. What
> one wants is to be able to control shutter speed, aperture,
> and focus without having to do more than turn something.
> No button presses or control sequences.

Other than the 300D/350D, most of the dSLRs give you separate controls for
all three.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
Anonymous
April 3, 2005 8:01:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Skip M <shadowcatcher@cox.net> wrote:
>"Tumbleweed" <Shovels@five.paces> wrote in message
>news:D 2kduk$brs$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>>
>> Although all the DSLRs will provide manual operation, the way they do it
>> is clunky, slow and inconvenient.
>> A decent manual film SLR (not one of the menu driven techno-cobbles)
>> offers a shutter speed dial and an aperture ring.
>> There is no groping through menus - everything falls to hand.
>> Yes, modern DSLRs can do it ... but by default, as an option that you have
>> to use consciously rather than intuitively.
>>
>Have you ever actually used a DSLR? Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Minolta and
>Olympus DSLRs don't work that way. None of them require "groping through
>menus," all have direct controls over shutter speed and aperture, even
>though some of the mfrs. have done away with aperture rings on the lenses.
>Our Canon DSLRs (D30 and 2 20Ds) use a wheel behind the shutter button for
>shutter speed, a large thumb wheel on the back of the camera for aperture.
>Other cameras have other, similar, controls.

Actually they don't. My Nikon 990 requires one to press
and hold buttons as one rotates a wheel for some of these
functions.

And my 300D has only one wheel. That's fine in aperture
priority (it then controls aperture) and in speed priority
(it then controls speed), but I've got to fuss around in
full manual mode to do both aperture and speed.

I think this is the more common behavior these days.

As for groping through menus, changing the ISO often requires
that -- depending on the camera of course. But that function
was not available on the old manual cameras.

---- Paul J. Gans
Anonymous
April 3, 2005 8:06:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Skip M <shadowcatcher@cox.net> wrote:
>"Paul J Gans" <gans@panix.com> wrote in message
>news:D 2nk7g$hfh$1@reader1.panix.com...
>>
>> I think that the main thing missing from a dSLR in manual
>> mode is a decent way to manually focus.
>>
>> Manual focus is an excellent way to ensure that what you want
>> in the shot is in focus and what you want out of focus is
>> out of focus.
>>
>> But this capability has been gone even from film SLRs for
>> such a long time that I'm sure that few young folks have
>> ever used it.
>>
>> As a minor point, full manual would have the equivalent of
>> an aperture ring probably implemented as a wheel. What
>> one wants is to be able to control shutter speed, aperture,
>> and focus without having to do more than turn something.
>> No button presses or control sequences.
>>
>> --- Paul J. Gans

>My Canon 20D uses a thumb wheel on the back of the camera for that very
>purpose. So, in full manual, I turn the wheel by the shutter button for
>shutter speed, the thumb wheel on the back for aperture and the focus ring
>on the lens for focus. Simple...

Take a look at a 300D.

And then check the cameras at dpreview (or whatever your favorite
site is.)

>And besides what David said about the focus points on a DSLR, the focus
>confirmation light is an aid in manual focusing, plus, some (expensive)
>Canon DSLRS have interchangeable focus screens, among which are split image
>screens.

A focus confirmation light is useless for manual focussing.
How does the camera know what I'm focussing on? All it can
say is that the object at some particular point on the screen
is in focus.

What you are saying is that some of the old manual functions are
available on *some* expensive cameras. I don't think any
camera under $2000 has interchangeable focus screens (and indeed
they were rare on film cameras too) and split images screens
are very rare. I've never even heard of one on a dSLR.

---- Paul J. Gans
Anonymous
April 3, 2005 8:16:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

mike regish <mregish@comcast.net> wrote:
>What do you mean by screen helper tools?

>mike

Manual focus film cameras often had regions (the center of
the viewfinder) that either contained microprisms or a splitter.
When manually focussing the image in the microprism was broken
until sharp focus was attained. A splitter worked in a similar
fashion, the image was "split" until one got sharp focus.

So you focussed on whatever object you wished and then,
without changing the focus, recomposed in the viewfinder.
The rest of the viewfinder was lightly ground glass and you
could judge the sharpness of the rest of the scene (if you
stopped down the lens as most focussed with the lens
wide open.)

As a result focus was very fast. Not as fast as autofocus
today with a USM lens, but fast neverthe less.

I used to pick shutter speed. I'd then focus. Then I'd
set aperture depending on the light meter (either on camera
or separate). This made compensation for backlight or whatever
a snap. One did it almost without thinking (and without having
to twiddle buttons and wheels).

I have never used the latest and greatest Canikon D666D, so
I can't comment on the top of the line cameras. But it is
not nearly that easy on a dSLR.

That is not to say that I'm against dSLR. I'm not. In
fact I've given up film entirely. There are just too
many advantages to dSLR.

---- Paul J. Gans


>"Owamanga" <owamanga(not-this-bit)@hotmail.com> wrote in message >

>> I think many DSLRs will do this. The one problem they all share is
>> also common with most AF film bodies. Manual focusing can be a bitch
>> because the screen helper tools are not there.
>>
>> --
>> Owamanga!
>> http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
Anonymous
April 3, 2005 8:16:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

OK. I've used those various focusing gizmos at one time or another. I didn't
kow if you meant something like a menu or something in the dSLR viewfinder
window.

With my 7D, the focus indicator will show when in focus. I think it's based
on the center of the screen.

mike

"Paul J Gans" <gans@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 2p4s0$6fg$11@reader1.panix.com...
> mike regish <mregish@comcast.net> wrote:
>>What do you mean by screen helper tools?
>
>>mike
>
> Manual focus film cameras often had regions (the center of
> the viewfinder) that either contained microprisms or a splitter.
> When manually focussing the image in the microprism was broken
> until sharp focus was attained. A splitter worked in a similar
> fashion, the image was "split" until one got sharp focus.
>
Anonymous
April 3, 2005 8:22:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

mike regish <mregish@comcast.net> wrote:
>Let's see. I ride a Harley, fly my own plane, athiest, sneakers and jeans,
>steak and eggs, rock and roll, Tom Clancy, Democrat, and would really like
>to go to the burning man festival.

>I have a Nikon 8008s, Pentax K1000, Minolta SRT101, Mamiya C330, Canon
>Powershot 80, and a Konica Minolta Maxxum 7D ( and still can't get a decent
>shot).

>Guess I have it all covered.

>My wife claims I can never have too many cameras or too many coats.

Glad you posted this. What (if anything) do you use
as a battery replacement for your Minolta SRT101?
Yes, I have one on the shelf. Indestructable camera
done in by lack of battery.

--- Paul J. Gans
Anonymous
April 3, 2005 8:22:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

You know, I bought the thing from a guy at work going through a divorce. I
got the camera, 3 lenses, a slew of filters, and a bellows attachment for
$125. He told me the meter didn't work, but I found that when it was
actually turned it on...it did work. I don't think I've ever changed the
battery on it.

I'm looking at it right now. It's a PX625A. Kind of a stubby mushroom shaped
battery, a little smaller than a dime. Should be an outline representation
of it inside the battery cover.

I just noticed the switch was on. I haven't touched this camera for several
years now. (There's still film in it) I may have switched it on when I took
it out of the camera case to put in my 7D, but it might have been on all
this time, too. It still works. My K1000 meter still works, too. I think as
long as the lens cap is on and there's nothing to meter, there's no current
use.

mike

"Paul J Gans" <gans@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 2p583$6fg$13@reader1.panix.com...
>
> Glad you posted this. What (if anything) do you use
> as a battery replacement for your Minolta SRT101?
> Yes, I have one on the shelf. Indestructable camera
> done in by lack of battery.
>
> --- Paul J. Gans
!