What CPU to use in my AMD Scorpius build for BF3, etc ?

[MajorHeadache]

First, let me thank you all in advance as although I haven't had to post anything yet, does not denote that I have not had dozens of questions answered indirectly thru other members.... Second, please refer to my Rig Sig at the bottom to understand what I am currently ""STUCK"" at. This was an upgrade from a Gigabyte 880g mobo/ XFX 6870 1gb/ 12gb Patriot 1333mhz gaming/ AMD 1055T w same CM V6gt cooler/ 2x 250gb WD black in striped raid/ Corsair GS700/ TT mid case w mass fanage, primarily setup to be a 2 step process into a Scorpius build for playing BF3 and other new titles with tthe best of them. Eyefinity 3x 22.5"" Samsungs, 2x XFX 6950 2gb CF (wish I went 6970 but have room for another onboard), and the plan was to toss in an FX-8150 and be done, however, (note there is NO OCing at all atm) I see people getting on par performance out of my 1055T with some multiplier bumps to that of 8120-8150 range in some tsts, while a 1090-1100T BE with more OCing ability and stability (my concern) can step out in front of the currnt FX flagship.... What do I do now to keep from feeling like a lost AMD faithful for whom True BloOOoze can laugh at now that they have the superior processors ATM?? Should I just wait until the next launch of FX cpus and hope that a 8170 comes out at a $250 pricepoint and Win8 helps solv e the performance loss currently being griped about in the Bulldozer architecture?? Bear in mind that the old 880g system is slated to be my HTPC, and since my Phenom x4 9850 does NOT work in that mobo, my 1055T will remain in good use there with video, 3d, and "family room" applications. So that being said, and to note that I THINK my system chipset is getting too hot and locking me out of BF3 after 2hrs of play... FX chips run alot cooler under their "turbo" settings and at load, AND I wont be bottlenecking my 16gb RAM clocked currently at 1333, I can let it roll at 1866mhz or higher with the better threading and throughput of said FX chip.... Spend $100 on an FX-4100 for 6months and push the system a little?? Grab a 1090T-1100T and push it further (in cycles obviously not mem)??

I would also like to pick anyones brain on my current rig and whether or not I can swap the Cm V6gt cooler out with something of comparable cfm, but less hight so I can reinstall my 200mm side flow fan on NZXT Phantom Full case, as well as regain room over the 1st DDR3 slot so I can add a strong mem cooler.... any other thoughts about the 108*F avg I am seeing on my sys temp after a BF3 freeze while cpu and both gpus are fine? I do have the 2 PCIx16 slots locked at full or 16 only, as the 2 PCIx8 slots are not in use, only the 1st PCIx4 slot for my OCZ Revodrivex2 240gb.... maybe there is something from the PCI bridge causing the heat?? Or would it just be likely my earlier note of the memory being bottlenecked to 1333mhz in bios from stock causing heat (along with cpu cooler almost touching the 1st DRAM mod....??

Any and all feedback is GREATLY appreciated!! And if someone can make use of this 9850 at fair price, I opened it only to find that I had my damn 2/2+3/3+ slots all wrong ((so it wont fit my 880g mobo)never mounted or powered... maybe I can find a cheap mobo for it to build a nice NAS server out of.

- PS: Gaming is top priority, however, I am reloading my audio/music apps ontop the Revodrive, while all my data resides on multiple 1TB drives to start mixing up some songs again, thus why I wasn't just satisfied w a 975 or whatever the fastest cycling quad is for AMD gaming atm. I am however, open to all suggestions...

Thanks again, and Happy Holidays..

 

[jdwii]

If i where you i would wait until a newer stepping comes out and get a 8170 because it will most likely use less power and run cooler as well which means better overclocking. And you will be happy to here this

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20111215191144_Microsoft_Releases_Windows_Patch_to_Boost_Performance_of_AMD_Bulldozer_Chips.html

 

[blazorthon]

In all honesty I think you would be better off waiting for Ivy Bridge and buying either ivy or (hopefully cheaper at the time) sandy system. As an AMD fan it truly hurts to admit that is the best course of action as I see it because AMD CPUs can bottleneck your FPS at such large resolutions with high graphics settings, especially bulldozer CPUs.

Ivy Bridge quad core CPUs will provide more performance than Sandy Bridge by around 15%, making them more than twice as fast clock per clock than AMD's FX line and they have a TDP of close to half the 8 core FX CPUs (largest TDP on Ivy is 77w compared to largest of FX at 130w).

Supposedly the scheduler fix is only supposed to improve performance up to 10% and that really isn't enough. I hope jdwii is right about the next stepping having a significant impact but I'm skeptical of it.

 

[MajorHeadache]

That is great if I were an Intel fan, or thinking of going that way, but all of this has been purchased at great prices during Black Friday week... I am trying to get advice on whether to stick w 1055T (and get OC help with it), grab the 1090/1100T BE and OC it, or start utilizing the 990fx memory bandwidth and HT bonus(ie:1866Mhz Ripjaw RAM stuck a 1333Mhz stock while using a Phenom based vs FX CPU) by grabbing a $100 FX-4100 for now since as far as it gos with my current setup, on Win7-64bit, etc. The 4100 will OC to the same range as 8150 and almost everything out ATM (game titles) runs best on quad cores, or btter yet, doesnt make use of the extra 2-4cores effectively yet.... hell the 8150 drops to 4cores for its top performance anyhow, and wait for th next batch of 32nm wafers to come outta da oven.
Unfortunately, until Win8 is out, I will not be too happy on my choice to stay w all AMD (going for the 3way ;P to squeeze out the supposed Scorpius 5-10% enhancment when CPU, chipset, and GPU are all same lvl, ie: FX-4100, 990FX chipset, 2x HD6950 2gb ) Again, I reitirate that I am not changing to Intel 3 weeks after buying all this, I DO agree that you guys have th edge handily ATM w 2500/2600k CPU's.... that being said, plz no more "...neener, neener, NEEENER" posts. I am honestly just begging AMD gamer minds as to what would be my wisest choice ATM?? If I stepup to a 1090/1100T, fx4100, or even the fx8150 now and next quarter Piledriver series drop an 8 or 10core with FAR better bang for the buck, no biggie... the 1055T cpu is waiting to go into our Home Theater PC I have to finish. I have never needed to OC more than a multplier or FSB bump in the past as my rigs were usually overkill for what I am playing gamwise, so there IS a good short-term (4-6month??) plan to get the most outta what I have built.... I had originally slated build for an FX-8150, but at the $269 price, there are minimal gains over my Phenom x6 1055T. So I say, if others agree w JDWII's advice.... should I stepinto the 4100 so I can game at or better than now and I can finish my HTPC?? Will I even have any noticable improvement going from x6 1055T to FX-4100? Or have someone that knows this config (especially the Revodrive (PCIx4 SSD) OCZ suggests no bus OCing (I need to clarify)) help with some mid level OCing until we see more FX options?? Note that the 1055T, while also a Thuban like the 1090 or 1100T, it is NOT a Black Edition, and only has base clock of 2.8Ghz... and even at that stock speed with TDP of 125watts, it would stay warm if not for the huge aftermarket CPU coolers (mine=CM V6 GT). I just havnt had enough time to study thru different forums to figure out if my system heat issue (that I had WORSE on 880GM mobo) is more due to the CPU cooler almost sitting on top of the 1st DRAM slot? Is it just from the PCIx activity, and I need to add something else for cooling NB/chipset/memory?? I can always go liquid, however, my thought was always: spend that extra$100+ on higher nd CPU/ram so I dont have to OC so much.

As a final note... I am again looking for gaming performance, without any stability issues (I know 4core is plenty) while I also run 6+ instances of EQemulator on 1 machine and things like audio apps... (Reason, Soundforge, Fruity Loops, Ableton Live,etc) which they also like BF3, will take almost every resource you throw at them.

-MH

 

[MajorHeadache]

Odd... part of my Rig Sig is getting cutoff, soooo here it goes:

AMD Phenom II x6 1055T 2.8GHz (note all running stock ATM)
CoolerMaster V6 GT CPU dual fan cooling tower
4x4gb GSkill Ripjaws 1866Mhz RAM (downclocked by mobo due to older CPU to 1333Mhz)
Onboard Realtec ALC889 Audio & RTL8111E 10/100/1000 NIC
(2x) XFX HD6950 2gb dual fan GPU's in 2way Crossfire
3x1 Eyefinity array of 2230/2233 series Samsung panels
CoolerMaster SilentPro 1200watt 80gold PSU
Windows 7 64bit Profssional
NZXT Full Phantom case with:
+ 2-top 200mm exhaust fans
+ 1-rear 120mm exhaust fan
+ 1-front 140mm intake fan
+ 2-side (low front corner over HDD bays) 120mm intake fans
+ 1-side 200mm intake fan (over top GPU, NB, CPU, RAM, etc(not usable with tall V6gt cooloer)

 

[FinneousPJ]

Overclock the 1055T as high as you can for now. Upgrade later.

 

[MajorHeadache]

What would be the best way of doing so since it is NOT a Black Edition CPU? I D/Ld CPU-Z, Tmon, HWMon, etc.

-MH

 

[boabs]

i had amd 965 and 6850oc. just sold it and got intel for first time in 12 years cause off the faildozer didnt cutt it . and the second gen bulldozer is only going to be the same speed as 2500k which will be about years 1 and half old by the time this new bulldozer comes next year. so i just got intel 2120 i3 to tick me over till ivy bridge next year.i got asus maximus gene z/pci x.30. ihad bf3 on on the comp feals much the same as that phenom 965 when playing game. doesnt look gd for amd.

 

[FinneousPJ]

What would be the best way of doing so since it is NOT a Black Edition CPU? I D/Ld CPU-Z, Tmon, HWMon, etc.

-MH

Well, since you're running a low memory multiplier you can just increase the FSB. Try searching google, I'm sure there are tutorials!

 

[MajorHeadache]

Thanks, I also need input on keeping this mobo cooler... I think I am losing connection to EA (onboard NIC) from in BF3 (or just freezes up) when the system gets to 108*F/42*C or above. I havent even kept any OC settings yet....

And to th true blue Intel guys, thanks.... but as I stated, I am into this investment and have been an AMD guy, thus willing to strive for the best I can get on this side of the aisle ATM.

Anymore input out there?? I do NOT have the side 200mm fan on the Phantom full case due to lack of clearance w my CM V6GT cpu cooler.... and do NOT have a DRAM cooler yet as the V6 covers the 1st slot.... cooler would have to fit with that, but I was about to order the GSkill or similar from Newegg. Any tips on how these newer memory coolers would fit with my situation??

Thanks again gang!

 

[rds1220]

If your going to go with AMD than get a four or six core PhenomII. The problem is the Phenom's are being phased out and once they're gone they're gone.

 

[MajorHeadache]

I grabbed an AMD FX-4100 so that I can migrate the Phenom x6 1055T to complete th Home Theatre PC as the "Santa gift to the whole family" has been long awaited. ((BTW- any suggstions on a Yamaha receiver looking, airy spaced for good cpu cooler, HTPC case?? nMediaPC line is my favorite ATM))
The FX-4100 is basically the physical quad core portion of the 8150, same speeds, etc, just without the 2 Hyperthreaded units per FPU. I can see how far I can push this setup while staying stable on BF3. With this setup (see above a few boxes) I have stock FX cooler on ATM, ONLY because I wanted to get the 200mm side fan bringing more cool air into those two 6950s and accross the Mobo, but, can someone recommend a good liquid cooling solution?? Or hybrid? I would prefer to just start w a CPU waterblock and an H100 type radiator at the top of this NZXT Full Phantom case, and THEN if the XFX DD dual fan dual radiator per GPU cannot keep them cool, I could add on GPU blocks...

and finally.... any suggestions on what steps to take to safely push this Rig thru the OC range? Again I am on the UD7 Gigabyte 990fx board, so it should be easy, however, I have only pushed multiplier and/or FSB a lil bit in past. Would be great if there was a similar rig being OCd on video... including the GPU's!! In the MSI Afterburner, it doesnt look like I have the headroom to OC these 6950's that I had in my 6870. Any tips or links would be GREATLY appreciated gang!! Back to the Battlefield!

"" ....and for those about to rock, FIRE, We Salute You!!! "" - Angus Young

 

[FinneousPJ]

No, the FX-4100 is two "hyper-threaded" cores.

 

[supremeusa]

your CPU is more than enuf for bf3

 

[de5_Roy]

i am a bit concerned.. if the fx 4100 bottlenecks your cfx-eyefinity setup.
tom's used an fx 6100 for this month's $1200 sbm build. the fx 6100 bottlenecked the cfx 2x 6950.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fx-overclock-crossfire-ssd,3098.html
the fps were 'playable'. but at the same res. a core i5 2500k with dual gtx 460 1gb noticeably outperformed 2x 6950 despite the 6950 being much better (and high res. friendly) cards. i am not telling you to switch to intel. the 990fx is a great chipset imo - offering dual x16 cfx/sli that intel reserves for their x58/x79 platform.

 

[HEXiT]

if you want to run them cards without bottlenecks you will be waiting a while till amd get there act together and give each of there modules there own maths co-pro instead of there current shared 1. for a gamer they are pretty flawed, but will be great server parts which after all is what FX is all about. personally i wouldnt bother thinking upgrade. i would just oc what i have although it wont be than much of a bump (10-15% if your lucky) it will help level out performance, but for them cards you really do need a higher per clock performance rating. at the moment only intel provide enough bandwidth to handle 2 such big cards.
amd really are more then a generation behind and there latest design hasnt lived up to expectations. im not saying it will eventually perform but atm it just doesnt...

if its not a BE version then all you can do is bump the HT you will get maybe 7-10 mhz on the ht multi which should turn into about 300mhz on the cpu (depending on the nb multi)...
shame really as your never gonna see the full performance of the gfx unless you swap out your cpu for the competition... good luck...

 

[MajorHeadache]

Ok, so ovr the holiday I read several succesful OC FX-4100 of 3.6GHz pushed easily and stable to 4.6GHz (and beyond) on stock air cooling and only changing multipliers. Depending on the test rig and apps used, 24-28% gains. With that being said, if I used a high end air cooler, or went liquid, and OC'd to 4.6GHz will I see a noticable increase in my video or gaming rather on the dual 6950's? Since the 1055 x6 is NOT a BE chip, and I hear they get super hot when OC'd I might b lucky to push from 2.8GHz to 3.3 or so.

Is that the best thing to do to salvage this investment? And what about the memory, and video? I hear that even tho I built with the 16gb of 1866MHz RAM, that for some reason the FX chips dont scale well from 1333 up to 1866. One test stated a memory bandwidth result of 1333MHz = 10.5GB/s and 1866 = 11.1GB/s.... ATM, with everything near defaults, the BIOS shows my RAM at 1334, I am assuming on Auto the default timings are better here than where it scales to at 1600 or 1866??
And the 6950's are XFX DD with 2gb... they seem to have one of the better heatpipe and dual fan designs, anyone have advice on whether its worth touching the GPU or GDDR5 clocks if Im in crossfire AND 3x1 Eyefinity setup?

Again thank you all for your time and input!! Please continue to leak your grey matter towards me..... "and walk thiiiss waaaayy Maaaassstturrrrr!!"

 

[noob2222]

Ok, so ovr the holiday I read several succesful OC FX-4100 of 3.6GHz pushed easily and stable to 4.6GHz (and beyond) on stock air cooling and only changing multipliers. Depending on the test rig and apps used, 24-28% gains. With that being said, if I used a high end air cooler, or went liquid, and OC'd to 4.6GHz will I see a noticable increase in my video or gaming rather on the dual 6950's? Since the 1055 x6 is NOT a BE chip, and I hear they get super hot when OC'd I might b lucky to push from 2.8GHz to 3.3 or so.

Is that the best thing to do to salvage this investment? And what about the memory, and video? I hear that even tho I built with the 16gb of 1866MHz RAM, that for some reason the FX chips dont scale well from 1333 up to 1866. One test stated a memory bandwidth result of 1333MHz = 10.5GB/s and 1866 = 11.1GB/s.... ATM, with everything near defaults, the BIOS shows my RAM at 1334, I am assuming on Auto the default timings are better here than where it scales to at 1600 or 1866??
And the 6950's are XFX DD with 2gb... they seem to have one of the better heatpipe and dual fan designs, anyone have advice on whether its worth touching the GPU or GDDR5 clocks if Im in crossfire AND 3x1 Eyefinity setup?

Again thank you all for your time and input!! Please continue to leak your grey matter towards me..... "and walk thiiiss waaaayy Maaaassstturrrrr!!"

Personally with the 1055, Id try to up the bus to 260+. since you already have 1866 memory, you won't be pushing it beyond its spec by toying with the memory multiplier. The 1055 is possible to reach 4.0.

Here is a good place to start.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-phenom-ii-x6-1055t-overclocking_4.html

As for the testing on the 4100, on my bios when adjusting the memory speed auto-clocks the memory timing to 12-12-12-30. you will have to adjust it manually if the bios doesn't have the proper information. Also for the best memory performance, put the NB speed the same as your HTT link. That setting alone brought me from 18.4 to 19.1 GB/s

Personally if you can hit 4.0 with the 1055, id put the 4100 in the htpc since its only a pseudo-quad vs a true 6-core cpu, the 1055 will be better for gaming, especially BF3

http://www.techspot.com/review/458-battlefield-3-performance/page7.html 72% (4100) to 54% (1100T)cpu usage.

As for toms fx-6120 SBM, its hilarious, their 6100 reached 8.5gb/s memory and your 4100 is 10.5/11.1. There is a major problem with the SBM build besides the cpu and no one wants to admit something got screwed up, isntead their conclusion "its a crappy cpu."

 

[MajorHeadache]

I forgot to re-itirate that my SSD is a Revodrive (PCIx4) and I think they suggest to not mess with the bus or NB if I recall correctly. Now that I have learned that about the FX and th 1866 ram, I wish I bought the FX-8150 or a 1090/1100T, BUT, no one had any for a week and I read about pushing 5GHz for $100 outta FX4100. I knew BF3 would prolly suck at least 75-85%cpu utilization, the 1055 being NON-BE is going to be smoking if it can even run stable over 3.5 or so, and the 4100 can OC like a dream, but mem scaling sux and all.
Oh well, I'm gonna try pushing the 4100 while it is still in this Mobo, I have a few CPU cooler options much better than stock, just tight w/side panel fan in.
So are you thinking that the 1055 will OC that far over the stock 2.8?

What's your take on the 2wayCF XFX DD 6950 2gb cards? Would they run better on the 1055 @ 3.6GHz (or whatever runs stable at,) than the almost 5ghz fx4100?? And since I AM running 3x1x23" 1080p native screens would you tweak them? Doesnt seem like there is much GPU clock left to push ovr 800stock in Afterburner... what is the rule on GPU to GDDR clock?? Afraid to touch PCI or voltages with Revodrive on the rail.

Thanks again!!!

 

[bawchicawawa]

Hopefully the win7 patch + piledrivers will redeem AMDs poor reputation right now.

Pretty much what i'm saying is, wait for piledriver and ivy bridge to come out and compare the price/performance of each, THEN make a decision.

 

[noob2222]

I forgot to re-itirate that my SSD is a Revodrive (PCIx4) and I think they suggest to not mess with the bus or NB if I recall correctly. Now that I have learned that about the FX and th 1866 ram, I wish I bought the FX-8150 or a 1090/1100T, BUT, no one had any for a week and I read about pushing 5GHz for $100 outta FX4100. I knew BF3 would prolly suck at least 75-85%cpu utilization, the 1055 being NON-BE is going to be smoking if it can even run stable over 3.5 or so, and the 4100 can OC like a dream, but mem scaling sux and all.
Oh well, I'm gonna try pushing the 4100 while it is still in this Mobo, I have a few CPU cooler options much better than stock, just tight w/side panel fan in.
So are you thinking that the 1055 will OC that far over the stock 2.8?

What's your take on the 2wayCF XFX DD 6950 2gb cards? Would they run better on the 1055 @ 3.6GHz (or whatever runs stable at,) than the almost 5ghz fx4100?? And since I AM running 3x1x23" 1080p native screens would you tweak them? Doesnt seem like there is much GPU clock left to push ovr 800stock in Afterburner... what is the rule on GPU to GDDR clock?? Afraid to touch PCI or voltages with Revodrive on the rail.

Thanks again!!!

the 8150 is overpriced, the 8120 is the sweet spot for the money on the FX cpus. ~$199 vs $280 for almost identical overclocking.

According to xbit, their 1055T was 65C at 4.0. They didn't specify they were using an after-market cooler, so not sure if that was with the stock or not.

Single threaded games will probably like the 5.0ghz 4100 vs 3.6-3.8ghz 1055, but multi-thread friendly BF3 will enjoy the 2 extra cores.

Hopefully the win7 patches will address some strangeness in BD chips.

 

[MajorHeadache]

Well my $100 / Cnote donation to the Bulldozer tryouts with this FX-4100 doesnt turn me away, I am just hungry for an 8170, or whatever those 10cores they are leaking about.... I do alot of work in audio as well, just been laid up w back surgeries. So next round I will prolly hit the "sweet spot" that the 1055T was in the Phenom lead pack, but with 4100 or bst available OC if they work this well, even tho all of the FX chips are rolled out "BE or unlocked".
So, anyone sharing details on similar build cooling details? I might finally take that first prverbial wet step into liquid. Any advice here? Is a Corsair H100 just a dual fan closed loop for cpu only? I hear that fits right into top on this NZXT full Phantom. Although, want ideas on piecing / pricing of custom, since I will prolly end up w a 3rd 6950 and much better cpu whenever that next release looks saavy.

 

[bawchicawawa]

Also, if you want to get a WC kit, go with "XSPC Rasa RS360 WC kit".

Best price/performance from what i understand at this point in time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zGAjOVJN8k&feature=g-all-c&context=G20a5e9eFAAAAAtAAIAA

 

[noob2222]

simple, relatively cheap and works fine for cpu only

Xspc raystorm cpu block (upgraded rasa)- $55
xspc ex240 - $50 or ex360 - $60
xspc x2o 750 - $50

hoses and fittings (get colored hoses not colored water)

granted the pump isn't the strongest one out there but if your not cooling your gpu, then its fine, and still good enough for a single gpu. For $50 for pump+resivoir, doesn't get any cheaper as most any more powerful pump alone gonna cost $80+

put 2 or 4 fans on the 240 radiator and its good to go.

For simple setup, the H100 isn't bad, not sure what pump it uses or how reliable it is. You can't add more components later down the road and the hose length is what you get. The thing I don't like about the h100 is the pump is sitting on the cpu block = added heat directly on the cpu, but not enough to kill the H100 itself, just not as good as a custom built loop. Last thing on the h100, upgrades ... how long will the cpu block be compatible ... anyone's guess.

For water cooling, once you have a starting setup, adding to it is cheaper than buying a whole new all-in-one setup and since you set it up, you know how to fix it, change it, addo to it, ect.

 

[MajorHeadache]

Again, thanks a ton guys!!!

ATM, I am running the FX-4100 @ 200MHz FSB X 22.0 ratio (4.4GHz) on an older, smaller, but much higher rpm CPU cooler. After a couple hrs of BF3, I lose audio I believe due to the system temp.... it hits 120*F easy, while the cpu seems to top around 114*F (sry had my Easytune6 set on F not C). The 16gb of Ripjaws 1866MHz ram is running at 1333 w 9-9-9-24. The Crossfire 6950 2gb cards are bumped from 800/1250 to 825MHz core/1300MHz mem clk since there isnt much room to OC thru Afterburner... prolly due to stock BIOS from XFX (not as important ATM). My PRIMARY remaining concern is what do you all think is causing the system temp to run so hot to easily?? Is it from 3x1 Eyefinity (5760x1080?) on the CF 6950's but only running the FX-4100? Do I need to put a fan cooling strip on Ripjaw memory once I make room removing cpu cooler and going WC? Is there something I need to know more about in tweaking my BIOS on this Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD7? I have the 1st 2 PCIe slots (video) lockd at x16, and then the OCZ Revodrive SSD is on an x4 slot. Is the NB just doing too much for the lil 4100 that there is heat from "bottlenecking"??
MUCH appreciated in advance.... I want to know what is causing this before I spend any more caaasshh on WC, upgrade to the FX-81xx or highr cpu, etc.
Oh, and I am looking into the Xspc gear once I send this... oh and no other OC options have been altered beyond what is listed above, i.e. voltages, etc.