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Wait GTX6xx, or no?

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  • Graphics
Last response: in Graphics Cards
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July 22, 2011 3:28:57 PM

Hey guys,
In the previous thread I made, I discussed whether the GTX570 was better for purchase, or the AMD 6970. The decision was that the 570 was better overall and more popular. The problem is, it is rumored that the GTX 6xx series will come out the end of this year, and so will the AMD 7xxx series. The new technology 28nm that both companies are using will introduce a generation of much lower temperature and better performance GPUs. It is rumored that the chips will perform twice to three times faster than current chips. I am considering to play BF3 and MW3, Crysis 2 with the GTX570, since BF3 might be a performance hog. I really want a need a new graphics card right now, but since its almost already a year since the release of the current generation GPUs, I don't know if I should wait. My options are: 1) wait and get the GTX 6xx or AMD 7xxx, might be able to get a high performance card since I waited. 2) get gtx 5xx now and wait for next gen to come out, drop its price, then purchase. Or purchase low performance card immediately on release. 4 months is a long time, (well kind of, if I have to "wait", lol I don't have much patience while thinking that I can get on of those 570s right now. Everywhere I go, I can't find any 570s. Its all stock coolers. Not aftermarket versions. I live in Taiwan, the home to many tech companies, but yet many stores sold out all of their 570s.)
My current rig is:
i7 870 (no OC)
P7P55D-E (no SLI, only CFX)
N460GTX Hawk MSI
8GB Kingston 1333mhz RAM
2x Intel X-25M SSDs @ RAID0 (each 80GB)
2x Hitachi 500GB HDD @ RAID0

More about : wait gtx6xx

a c 131 U Graphics card
July 22, 2011 6:26:51 PM

Well... when the GTX 6xx series comes out, the GTX 7xx will be right around the corner.

I say get something now and if everything you heard was true about the speed of the next gen cards, get something when your card no longer do what you want them to.

It's been my experience, even with the rumors, the next gen always gives you a 20-30% bump. No more.
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a c 188 U Graphics card
July 22, 2011 7:23:48 PM

heard some rumor that the next gen card from both company might get delay to Q1 next year. maybe you can do this: buy GTX570 right now and wait for the next series comes out. when the next series comes out (doesn't matter when) and somehow you really did interested to get one sell your GTX570. i believe even the new series coming out there are still some people wiling to take that GTX570 especially for the people that want make cheap performance upgrade by SLI-ing his current GTX570.
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a b U Graphics card
July 22, 2011 7:59:32 PM

@ pasta - If you were to wait until the next gen hardware were to come out, then you'd have been stuck with a P4 rig from 2004 awaiting the arrival of the AMD 7xxx and GTX 8xx series of cards while you were also hoping that ssd prices would drop with a capacity of 2TB's round the corner :lol: 

no offense bro, go with what ubercake said :p  if your happy with what you want it to do, you've made the right purchase - this only comes from research and feedback from us here at Tom's and other forums.
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a b U Graphics card
July 22, 2011 8:06:21 PM

ubercake said:
Well... when the GTX 6xx series comes out, the GTX 7xx will be right around the corner.

I say get something now and if everything you heard was true about the speed of the next gen cards, get something when your card no longer do what you want them to.

It's been my experience, even with the rumors, the next gen always gives you a 20-30% bump. No more.


Not really, GPU generations are typically 1-1.5 years apart, and we are close to the next generation now.

I have no idea what the GTX6 series will be, but the rumors are that AMD 7000HD will be based of the cayman architecture (6950/6970/6990) shrunk down to 28nm. For AMD this means that its mostly about a die shrink, which is easier than designing a new architecture & going for a die shrink (think Nvidia's Fermi). Now Nvidia might just die shrink the current Fermi too, so will see.

I think die shrink would be best for the next gen as current gen cards are more than enough to run current games, heck most middle range cards (6870, 560) are typically overkill for a 1080p monitor.
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July 23, 2011 3:46:50 AM

Now that I think about it, the games that I play: Bad Company 2 and Black Ops don't really max out my GTX460 Hawk. Honestly the only reason I would buy the 570 is because Battlefield 3. Like I said before, all the stores sold out, and there is only one store left that I know has a 570 (unbelievable huh?). The salesmen told me that if I don't buy it, it could be gone within a day or two. I know that this is a sales strategy, but it is still very tempting for me to buy that 570. I don't know why, but there is this thought inside my head that keeps repeating, convincing me to buy that 570. Maybe a monitor is my priority, mine is 3 years old and the resolution is 1680x1050 and is 21", I know its not too bad, but I kind of want a bigger screen and a higher resolution. I already have speedy hard drives and CPUs, maybe I should get a monitor first?
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a c 202 U Graphics card
July 23, 2011 4:30:50 AM

If your still at 1050, I would upgrade the monitor before worrying about bigger video cards. If your GTX460 can't cut it, you can always lower the details a bit while you wait to buy the new GPU.

Quote:
but the rumors are that AMD 7000HD will be based of the cayman architecture (6950/6970/6990) shrunk down to 28nm. For AMD this means that its mostly about a die shrink


I don't know how this rumor got started. Read some of the reviews when the 69xx series came out. AMD had many plans for this series, which had to get modified when TSMC dropped the half node. AMD had to use 40nm again, so they had to cut a lot out of what they wanted 69xx to be. Now they we have a new node, we'll get the chip they wanted to make. It will still be ILW4 instead of 5, and it won't be NGC, but it will be more then just a shrink.
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July 23, 2011 4:43:28 AM

I've been thinking about the same thing too. Decided to buy the EVGA version of the GTX 570 and sign up for the Step Up program, so I only pay the difference between the two cards. Best solutions for me right now.
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a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2011 4:45:55 AM

since you already have a decent gpu, I would suggest simply waiting until the next generation.
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a c 202 U Graphics card
July 23, 2011 5:57:10 AM

Not a bad idea Fullmetal, but remember that the step program (last I looked anyways...) only lasts for 90days. The GTX6xx series isn't supposed to be out by then.
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a c 131 U Graphics card
July 23, 2011 10:43:07 AM

pasta815tim said:
Now that I think about it, the games that I play: Bad Company 2 and Black Ops don't really max out my GTX460 Hawk. Honestly the only reason I would buy the 570 is because Battlefield 3. Like I said before, all the stores sold out, and there is only one store left that I know has a 570 (unbelievable huh?). The salesmen told me that if I don't buy it, it could be gone within a day or two. I know that this is a sales strategy, but it is still very tempting for me to buy that 570. I don't know why, but there is this thought inside my head that keeps repeating, convincing me to buy that 570. Maybe a monitor is my priority, mine is 3 years old and the resolution is 1680x1050 and is 21", I know its not too bad, but I kind of want a bigger screen and a higher resolution. I already have speedy hard drives and CPUs, maybe I should get a monitor first?

I'd believe it for black ops as this isn't such a demanding game; almost a console port.

Maxed out with BFBC2 on a GTX460 Hawk, though? This review might indicate otherwise even at 1680x1050 (performance should be somewhere between the 1st two resolutions when reading left to right):

http://www.guru3d.com/article/msi-geforce-gtx-460-hawk-...

What are your current minimum framerates?

A 570 would most likely keep you above 60fps minimum at 1680x1050 with your current monitor. This will smooth out the gameplay altogether in BFBC2. This is definitely an improvement even without a new screen.
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a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2011 7:12:51 PM

First of all, you dont need 60 fps for smooth gameplay, 30+ fps is enough.

Also did anyone remember to mention that the 570 is a power hog? You better quality 650W PSU with 50+ amps on the 12v rail. And its also nice to consider power savings for waiting for a more efficient next gen card. A bit less $, less strain on the PSU, less heat generated.
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a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2011 9:00:06 PM

ubercake said:
I'd believe it for black ops as this isn't such a demanding game; almost a console port.

Maxed out with BFBC2 on a GTX460 Hawk, though? This review might indicate otherwise even at 1680x1050 (performance should be somewhere between the 1st two resolutions when reading left to right):

http://www.guru3d.com/article/msi-geforce-gtx-460-hawk-...

What are your current minimum framerates?

A 570 would most likely keep you above 60fps minimum at 1680x1050 with your current monitor. This will smooth out the gameplay altogether in BFBC2. This is definitely an improvement even without a new screen.


you honestly dont need 8x AA at high resolutions, total fps killer for no real gain. ive played around with the settings in BC2, max settings honestly barely look better than medium settings. gtx 460 is more than enough for that game.
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a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2011 9:18:16 PM

not to mention that hawk should scale real well with an overclock....i know my asus top did...and i could push it past 900MHz....have you tried o.c'n it yet???
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a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2011 9:23:51 PM

And that BC2 isn't really dependent on gpu nearly as much as cpu. Since BF3 is built on same engine, should be the same case. Makes me concerned about people who are posting these threads and rushing out to buy a 570 for BF3 when they might not even have a quad core.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
July 23, 2011 9:59:09 PM

OC that Hawk up to 900mhz+(that's what it was designed for) and forget about the GTX 570. Even at stock the Hawk should be great for your resolution and easily last you until the next gen cards are released.
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a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2011 10:49:54 PM

so the consensus seems to be your best mod may be a free one....

OVERCLOCKING ftw!!! (both your gpu AND cpu)

not as daunting as it seems.... start small and refer back to the overclock section here at toms for guidance

good luck
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a c 188 U Graphics card
July 24, 2011 11:36:49 AM

4745454b said:
If your still at 1050, I would upgrade the monitor before worrying about bigger video cards. If your GTX460 can't cut it, you can always lower the details a bit while you wait to buy the new GPU.

Quote:
but the rumors are that AMD 7000HD will be based of the cayman architecture (6950/6970/6990) shrunk down to 28nm. For AMD this means that its mostly about a die shrink


I don't know how this rumor got started. Read some of the reviews when the 69xx series came out. AMD had many plans for this series, which had to get modified when TSMC dropped the half node. AMD had to use 40nm again, so they had to cut a lot out of what they wanted 69xx to be. Now they we have a new node, we'll get the chip they wanted to make. It will still be ILW4 instead of 5, and it won't be NGC, but it will be more then just a shrink.


i first read that rumor on fudzilla but i don't remember if they said it will be a mere die shrink or tweak version of cayman
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a c 131 U Graphics card
July 24, 2011 1:09:37 PM

All these guys posting 30fps is enough and thinking you don't need AA because it kills framerates are perfect candidates for gameplay on a console. They should quit giving advice and go buy a 360, because they'll be perfectly satisfied with that. They also have probably not experienced anything better.

Sure you don't need high framerates or AA, but they sure as heck add to the realism and quality. The more power you have in your cards, the better off you are from a performance AND quality standpoint. If you crank up the details and AA and have power behind your video setup, you don't notice the framerate loss because even your minimum frame rates won't choke the performance.

This is why I suggest the 570. You want your minimum framerates to be as high as possible because you don't want your game dipping into the 20s and lower in a congested area or at other critical times during gameplay.
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a c 131 U Graphics card
July 24, 2011 1:12:09 PM

vilenjan said:
First of all, you dont need 60 fps for smooth gameplay, 30+ fps is enough.

Also did anyone remember to mention that the 570 is a power hog? You better quality 650W PSU with 50+ amps on the 12v rail. And its also nice to consider power savings for waiting for a more efficient next gen card. A bit less $, less strain on the PSU, less heat generated.

Good point.

That's right. Even better, if you don't even turn your gaming PC on, you'll save even more power.

Energy conservation is always a first concern when purchasing a luxury item.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
July 24, 2011 6:28:54 PM

ubercake said:
This is why I suggest the 570. You want your minimum framerates to be as high as possible because you don't want your game dipping into the 20s and lower in a congested area or at other critical times during gameplay.
Perhaps you should look up how capable a GTX 460 at 900+ mhz is at 1680x1050. Your advice is simply inappropriate for the situation IMO. The GTX 570 is expensive and the upgrade would be marginal.
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a c 131 U Graphics card
July 24, 2011 7:43:33 PM

jyjjy said:
Perhaps you should look up how capable a GTX 460 at 900+ mhz is at 1680x1050. Your advice is simply inappropriate for the situation IMO. The GTX 570 is expensive and the upgrade would be marginal.

OP posted they will be upgrading to a higher res monitor. Perhaps you should read the entire thread before giving advice since yours is simply inappropriate for higher res situations.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
July 24, 2011 8:02:52 PM

ubercake said:
OP posted they will be upgrading to a higher res monitor. Perhaps you should read the entire thread before giving advice since yours is simply inappropriate for higher res situations.

Then he should get a new card when he gets the new monitor. He also said the only reason he is getting the card is for BF3 which isn't out for another 3 months(if it is released as scheduled.) Buying an expensive card that is not a particularly large upgrade over what you have now ahead of time for monitor you don't have yet and for a game that isn't released yet and has no benchmarks just doesn't make any sense IMO. Graphics hardware is a notoriously fast moving technology. Pricing and options available will always change for the better the longer you wait.
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a c 131 U Graphics card
July 25, 2011 8:46:44 AM

jyjjy said:
Then he should get a new card when he gets the new monitor. He also said the only reason he is getting the card is for BF3 which isn't out for another 3 months(if it is released as scheduled.) Buying an expensive card that is not a particularly large upgrade over what you have now ahead of time for monitor you don't have yet and for a game that isn't released yet and has no benchmarks just doesn't make any sense IMO. Graphics hardware is a notoriously fast moving technology. Pricing and options available will always change for the better the longer you wait.

I see what your saying, but by the same token, new games will become more demanding of your GPU(s) the longer you wait.

What I'm saying is you can get caught up in the waiting.

I do agree with you that OP should get the higher res monitor (at least 1080p). I think that's something to do in the immediate future. Definitely something you don't have to wait for and can use with the current or future card.
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