Phenom IIs site

[jimmysmitty]

While browsing to see if ATI had released the latest drivers for my GPU (in hopes that they added a few optimizations for GTA IV) I found this:

http://game.amd.com/us-en/landings/dragon.aspx

Interesting site. I guess their new platform for Phenom II is named "Dragon" (although between you and me the creature looks more like a winged lizard).

Looks decent and maybe there will be more but only two things I will truly critisize.

1. They have a video comparing it to Nehalem. As usual, instead of comparing it to a simialrly priced CPU they use the Extreme Edition chip. That aggrivates me since that misleads newbies into thinking its ALWAYs more expensive to go Intel which it is not always. Sometimes yes but not always. In fact depending on the price range it may be cheaper. At Newegg I built a friend a Intel dual core machine because he could get a Core 2 Duo E7300, mobo and 2GB of DDR2 800 for $200 bucks but not with a AMD one that was equal in performance.

2. They have a list of reviewers and their #1 is everyones fave tool Theo. Not really saying much when you use him as a opinion. And it seems all the opinions are just on the OCing, not the chip itself. Too bad.

Anywho, its out now so maybe we will finally get some decent reviews.

BTW its $275 @ Newegg right now. might want to order one while it is cheap. I think the hype will drive the price up over $300 for a bit until it cools down and the dust settles.

Or you can wait and see what it truly has to offer. I want to see multi GPU benchmarks myself. I plan on a 4870X2 when the newer gen cards come out so I can get one cheap.

Not sure but this is here too:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phenom-ii-940,2114-11.html

Not that good of a review, maybe not complete. I would have liked to see a clock per clock review (Q6600 @ 3GHz vs 940 @ 3Ghz vs i920 @ 3GHz).

I decided to look at the gaming section at least. I calculated the percents from a QX6850 vs a Phenom II 940 in the games, all res was 168x1050. Overall clock per clock Phenom II in gaming at least shows 6.75% slower than Kentsfield and is about 9.625% slower than Yorkfield (I took the Q9550 results so its not 100% clock per clock).

Now I could be wrong and it would be nice to have someone check my calculations but that seems right at least clock per clock. There is no difference between a QX6850 and a Q6600 @ 3GHz. They both use the same speed FSB and have the same cache.

Anyways. It looks good but we still need more site for more info to get a full reading of it.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

^ You've probably read this by now, but here's what Anandtech had to say about the P2 and gaming:

The take away point is that compared to Penryn, Phenom II is slower clock-for-clock. The gap grows with Nehalem; Phenom II only gets close in older game engines, while the rest of the time Nehalem is 30-60% faster at the same clock speed.

 

[jimmysmitty]

Haven't seen that yet. Guess the preliminaries can be thrown out for Phenom II then. They said it was better.

I guess I expected more for posting this but I think I didn't do it in a "Phenom II is awesome and super great" like I should have to get more opinions.

Oh well. I can't fake enthusiasm when its not there. Phenom II doesn't seem to be what was said. Then again hype is just that. Hype.

 

[spathotan]

Hype, you nailed it jimmy. These P2's were extremely over-hyped on these forums.

Also, Nehalem doing 30-60% better is brutal. DDR3/mobo prices aside, there is only a $20 difference between P2 940 and i7 920. This is even more fuel for the fire. Phenom II is looking worthless even from a brand new ground up build perspective, just spend the extra $200 (X58's at $210, only $60 more than one of the higher end 790GX, and only $20 more than the ASUS 790FX. $150 for 6GB of DDR3 1333 or $85 for 3GB vs $40 for 4GB DDR2 memory ) and go for the throat; i7.

 

[sharken]

Yep hype and hope was there but product fell short, had almost all top amd's from beginning, so im bitter toward them, since core 2 quad and core i7, used to like to give kudos to amd, pffft not happening anymore, Core i7 best thing i ever used, not too expensive either, 750 for a mobo bundle, simple, effective and beyond description for all use...

 

[jimmysmitty]

Well I'm not looking down on it per say. But if you look at all the reviews and try to look at a clock per clock basis in gaming its not that great vs Kentsfield. Its great in encoding and the such as I would expect. But overall it was hyped. So basically from what I can see a Q6600 OCed to 3/3.2GHz like yours or mine spathotan is still a viable chip and is almost $100 cheaper.

And I think the hype was the amazing easy 4GHz+ air and 6GHz+ LN2 OCing that AMD was showing off. And now on air Anand was only able to hit 3.7GHz stable and had to use 1.52v. The Core i7 i920 hit 4GHz @ 1.35v and 3.83GHz on stock voltage compared to the Phenom II 940 that on stock, 1.32v just like the i920, was 3.3GHz.

So something is fishy. I felt that AMD was using cherry picked parts for the OCing but still I thought it would at least hit 4GHz.

But we shall see. More reviews should pop up and maybe someone here will get one and be honest with a all out review on it.

 

[sharken]

I want to see Overclocked benchmarks.....

 

[spathotan]

Well I'm not looking down on it per say. But if you look at all the reviews and try to look at a clock per clock basis in gaming its not that great vs Kentsfield. Its great in encoding and the such as I would expect. But overall it was hyped. So basically from what I can see a Q6600 OCed to 3/3.2GHz like yours or mine spathotan is still a viable chip and is almost $100 cheaper.

And I think the hype was the amazing easy 4GHz+ air and 6GHz+ LN2 OCing that AMD was showing off. And now on air Anand was only able to hit 3.7GHz stable and had to use 1.52v. The Core i7 i920 hit 4GHz @ 1.35v and 3.83GHz on stock voltage compared to the Phenom II 940 that on stock, 1.32v just like the i920, was 3.3GHz.

So something is fishy. I felt that AMD was using cherry picked parts for the OCing but still I thought it would at least hit 4GHz.

But we shall see. More reviews should pop up and maybe someone here will get one and be honest with a all out review on it.

New BIOS' might help the OC results, but I really doubt it, it would have to be one HELL of a BIOS update. Also, being that me and you have basically identical systems, of course we cant justify buying these chips. The Q6600 is still the staple chip to beat IMO.

 

[PrangeWay]

I'm not sure over-hyped, outside of the fanboi (either side) the PII came in right where it was expected slightly better than the 45nm Intel chip of similar price (q9300,9400). Neham is what you get if you combined a Core 2 Quad and a Phenom chip into totally new design and is going to be as good as you see for the next year or so, no shock there either.

As for OC'ing, we'll see. The i7 was a "horrible" overclocker the first week it was released, now it's awesome. It's more on knowledge and people trying than anything. I wish someone who did a P2 review actually used a REAL motherboard to, none of that GX crap. A nice FX 750 for once... (heck one site even used a SB600 chipset, ug).


PW

 

[fazers_on_stun]

I'm not sure over-hyped, outside of the fanboi (either side) the PII came in right where it was expected slightly better than the 45nm Intel chip of similar price (q9300,9400). Neham is what you get if you combined a Core 2 Quad and a Phenom chip into totally new design and is going to be as good as you see for the next year or so, no shock there either.

As for OC'ing, we'll see. The i7 was a "horrible" overclocker the first week it was released, now it's awesome. It's more on knowledge and people trying than anything. I wish someone who did a P2 review actually used a REAL motherboard to, none of that GX crap. A nice FX 750 for once... (heck one site even used a SB600 chipset, ug).


PW

Heh, you're right about i7 - Ed at Overclockers really flamed the i7 & Intel until somebody actually told him how easy it is to OC .

Putting it all in perspective, P2 is actually a nice step up for somebody with an AM2+ board, and it probably would suffice for most people here except for the high-end enthusiast crowd. AMD just needed this a year ago...

 

[yipsl]

^ You've probably read this by now, but here's what Anandtech had to say about the P2 and gaming:

The take away point is that compared to Penryn, Phenom II is slower clock-for-clock. The gap grows with Nehalem; Phenom II only gets close in older game engines, while the rest of the time Nehalem is 30-60% faster at the same clock speed.

Anandtech also had this to say:

After over two years of us recommending Intel's Core 2 lineup almost exclusively, AMD finally released a real alternative, one that's not just similarly priced, but actually higher performing than the price-competitive Intel part. Over the coming pages I'll explain how...

...Architecturally, Phenom II is what the original Phenom should have been. It's not cache starved, and while not as balanced as Core i7, it's a step in the right direction.

Compared to the Core 2 Quad Q9400, the Phenom II X4 940 is clearly the better pick. While it's not faster across the board, more often than not the 940 is equal to or faster than the Q9400. If Intel can drop the price of the Core 2 Quad Q9550 to the same price as the Phenom II X4 940 then the recommendation goes back to Intel. The Q9550 is generally faster than the 940, more overclockable at lower voltages, and a high enough default clock speed to keep you happy in the long run.

The same goes for the Phenom II X4 920 vs. Q9300/Q8200; AMD wins that comparison at the same price point. Compared to the Q9400, the Phenom II X4 920 falls behind. The Q9400 is the better buy of the two, but only if Intel does come through with rumored price cuts. We'll know for sure by the end of the month.

AMD also thankfully produced a good overclocker, at least with our review samples. The fact that we weren't able to overclock too high without increasing the core voltage is a testament to the early nature of AMD's 45nm process. Core i7, on the other hand, was basically able to reach maximum clock speed without so much as touching the voltage dials. Remember that Core i7 is Intel's second 45nm processor while Phenom II is AMD's first; it will only get better with time.

Despite Intel's strengths, AMD was able to do very well here today with Phenom II. Being able to have a CPU competitive with Penryn right out of the gates is worthy of a commendation. The scary part is that Intel could easily mitigate AMD's gains here with some simple price adjustments. Even more worrisome for AMD is that Phenom II is its only foot forward until 2011 when the first Bulldozer based CPUs arrive. There's headroom in AMD's 45nm process, but what happens when Core i7 goes mainstream? We must not forget that Phenom II is competitive with a 45nm derivative of a 2+ year old architecture.

Selective quotes like yours makes it out that Phenom II is not a good choice at any price point because Penryn is higher clock per clock. Yet, Phenom II is actually a good CPU for more than just upgrades. For new builds, I recommend waiting for AM3 and 880G at the very least. Overall, Phenom II is a mainstream choice that actually brings some competition and might achieve the holy grail of all Intel fanboys: forcing Intel to cut prices so "their" CPU's are cheaper. :lol:

This bodes well for Bulldozer, and if it's not out till 2011, I hope a respin of Deneb with HKMG allows for some higher stock clocks to compete against both Penryn and Nehalem.

 

[jj463rd]

^ You've probably read this by now, but here's what Anandtech had to say about the P2 and gaming:

The take away point is that compared to Penryn, Phenom II is slower clock-for-clock. The gap grows with Nehalem; Phenom II only gets close in older game engines, while the rest of the time Nehalem is 30-60% faster at the same clock speed.

I contest that as it seems that Phenom II loses in older games engines while the performance seems better with quad optimized games.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=213200&page=5
We still haven't seen benchmarks of Phenom II in Microsoft Flight Simulator X but there are benchmarks of Core i7 for FSX and other simulations/games here.
http://www.simhq.com/_technology2/technology_111a.html

 

[jimmysmitty]

Yips, I will say P II is great for AM2+ users but for a new system it still doesn't beat the Q6600 in a price/performance per clock contest. Thats what I am saying. Overall its a good UPGRADE but for a new build its hard to give it a 100% the best you can get sorta thing.

 

[Reynod]

Yeah I want to see some overclocked benchies to see what the scaling looks like between the Penryn, PII and i7 lines.

If you recall a few years ago the last of the Pentiums didn't scale well, though the A64's did ... not so the XP's.

Scaling is important when you consider that overclocking puts considerable strain on the system ... it isn't worth it unless there is a definitive payoff in FPS in games.

 

[amdfangirl]

Yips, I will say P II is great for AM2+ users but for a new system it still doesn't beat the Q6600 in a price/performance per clock contest. Thats what I am saying. Overall its a good UPGRADE but for a new build its hard to give it a 100% the best you can get sorta thing.

Unless you happen to do a Phenom application where only the i7 beats it.

 

[jimmysmitty]

^True but I am doubting a person will be buying a PC to do one specific thing unless its a very generalized area like at a school.

I mean for us normal people (and you Aussies), the Q6600 still gives some of the best performance for your buck. That is untill a Penryn C2Q, Core i7 or Phenom II drop in price.

 

[yipsl]

I'll agree that a DDR2 Phenom II is going to be as obsolete as a Kentsfield, but a DDR3 Phenom II setup in a month or so is more upgradable. Let's face it, even a 925 or 945 Phenom II on an 880G motherboard with DDR3 will outperform a Q6600. I can say that because the DDR2 upgrade versions already do.

Neither us Americans or the Aussies are "normal". We're mutants in Bill Murray's line from "Stripes". We're composed of all the people kicked out of England to avoid debtor's prison, to escape famines in Ireland, exiled because of Jacobite rebellions and whatnot.

All the "normal" people stayed in Europe or Asia. Look what's happened there in the past 200 years. I'm glad my ancestors were given one way tickets. Considering my mother's maiden name, it's a good chance that my ancestors lost supporting Bonnie Prince Charlie and ended up in Maryland. Sadly, one of my ancestors on her side was a slave owner but since Maryland was forced to stay in the Union, I guess I can say we were on the right side of the Civil War.

 

[amdfangirl]

I'm not a true blue Australian... (made in New Zealand )

 

[yipsl]

I should read up on NZ history. All I know is that the Maori settled it and then English settlers fought with them the way we did with Native Americans. Was NZ a prison colony like Australia or the state of Georgia? Or a refuge for a religious minority like Maryland? Did NZ get debtor prison rejects like the original 13 colonies?

If I had the choice of Australia or New Zealand to live in, from what I've seen on film, I'd rather live in NZ. Then again, my favorite part of the U.S. is the Santa Cruz mountains of California, but I'm stuck here in Texas.

 

[amdfangirl]

Yeah, I think I remember something... no I don't...

 

[Reynod]

Jeez ... AFG's a kiwi.

Poor kid ...

 

[jimmysmitty]

I'll agree that a DDR2 Phenom II is going to be as obsolete as a Kentsfield, but a DDR3 Phenom II setup in a month or so is more upgradable. Let's face it, even a 925 or 945 Phenom II on an 880G motherboard with DDR3 will outperform a Q6600. I can say that because the DDR2 upgrade versions already do.

Neither us Americans or the Aussies are "normal". We're mutants in Bill Murray's line from "Stripes". We're composed of all the people kicked out of England to avoid debtor's prison, to escape famines in Ireland, exiled because of Jacobite rebellions and whatnot.

All the "normal" people stayed in Europe or Asia. Look what's happened there in the past 200 years. I'm glad my ancestors were given one way tickets. Considering my mother's maiden name, it's a good chance that my ancestors lost supporting Bonnie Prince Charlie and ended up in Maryland. Sadly, one of my ancestors on her side was a slave owner but since Maryland was forced to stay in the Union, I guess I can say we were on the right side of the Civil War.

Depends. Some reviews show Kentsfield on a clock per clock basis beating P II at gaming and a few other tasks. Not all of course but some that seems weird to me. I don't want to look at it as much from a price perspective as I do from a clock per clock though. I mean I could get the cheapest AMD chip and say its cheaper than a QX9650 so its better. But in reality the QX9650 will outperform and out overclock that AMD chip because thats what its made to do.

As for "normal" I meant our sort of normal. Not the Euro normal which is weird to me. Not that I hate Europeans, but they are weird.

And I am from Texas. We decided to stay out of that one and were our own country for ten years, led by Sam Houston. In the end though we became part of the Union (after the fight for independance from Mexico that is). So when they say the South they mean more from east of Texas on. Especially since AZ, NM, CA and the such were not even states yet.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

@ Ray, check post 582 http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=213691&page=24
This was done by a XS user, not a pro site, but something nonetheless. If you take away the synthetic benches, and theyre almost dead evn with Kentsfield. All clocks at 3.7 . i7,Kentsfield,Yorkfield and P2
Edit: These benches are from the Greek site, which are pretty normal from what weve seen cpmparatively

 

[jed]

@ Ray, check post 582 http://www.xtremesystems.org/forum [...] 91&page=24
This was done by a XS user, not a pro site, but something nonetheless. If you take away the synthetic benches, and theyre almost dead evn with Kentsfield. All clocks at 3.7 . i7,Kentsfield,Yorkfield and P2
Edit: These benches are from the Greek site, which are pretty normal from what weve seen cpmparatively

Even this page you refer to show what everyone's ben saying
to you JDJ, when theirs no bottleneck the phenom cpu's is
behind the kentsfield, out of these cpu's it don't matter what
cpu you have when it's the gpu that bottlenecking the system.

 

[jed]

Also with the chart you referenced to we just found your
2-3% in intels direction.