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DON'T ENLIST IN THE ARMY: YOU COULD BE KILLED OR MAIMED FO..

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Anonymous
April 6, 2005 10:17:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic form
of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a bunch of
corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight. You'll be a
slave, cannon fodder.

Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 1:38:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Ilya Shambat wrote:
> Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic form
> of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a bunch of
> corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight. You'll be a
> slave, cannon fodder.
>
> Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
> you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.

Thank your for your opinion. Now go tell it to someone who cares about
your opinion.

You have the right to post this opinion because brave men and women died
to give it to you, and to protect it.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 5:51:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On 6 Apr 2005 18:17:35 -0700, ilyashambat@mailinator.com (Ilya
Shambat) wrote:

>Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic form
>of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a bunch of
>corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight. You'll be a
>slave, cannon fodder.
>
>Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
>you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.


That's funny. I got an education and I am serving my fellow man.

And those who end up six-feet under often have provided the greatest
service in keeping that fate from befalling another.

---
COFFEE.EXE missing
Insert CUP and press ENTER to retry.

Signaleer http://signaleer.blogspot.com
This Day in U.S. Military History http://tdiumh.blogspot.com
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 5:51:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"RTO Trainer" <bill.white@us.HOOAH.army.mil> wrote in message
news:ne49519cjatt1q0mecej0pkci4ese7d6vo@4ax.com...
> On 6 Apr 2005 18:17:35 -0700, ilyashambat@mailinator.com (Ilya
> Shambat) wrote:
>
> >Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic form
> >of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a bunch of
> >corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight. You'll be a
> >slave, cannon fodder.
> >
> >Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
> >you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
>
>
> That's funny. I got an education and I am serving my fellow man.
>
> And those who end up six-feet under often have provided the greatest
> service in keeping that fate from befalling another.

That is a really BAD response to an obvious fruitcake. Try another track.

Yes, by all means, go get that Education. Everyone benefits from College
even if you choose to join the military later. Do it before you join
though. Night School is not the way to go. For some, it may be the only
way to obtain the degree and I suggest they do take that route.

To quote a very popular Folk Hero General, (I will probably misquote it)
"It's not up to you to die for your country but to make the other Son of a
Bitch die for his." The quote is not exact but the meaning is quite clear.

When the US Military is having a 20 to 1 kill ratio, the enemy runs out of
troops long before the US Military runs out of Troops.

Some should be part of the Military and some should not. It's, by and
large, a choice one makes on their own.
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 5:51:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

> To quote a very popular Folk Hero General, (I will probably misquote it)
> "It's not up to you to die for your country but to make the other Son of a
> Bitch die for his." The quote is not exact but the meaning is quite
> clear.

I think your referring to General Patton. I think the quote goes" No man
ever won a war by dieing for his country, he won the war by making the other
dumb poor bastard die for his". You are right though.
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 6:45:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ilya Shambat" <ilyashambat@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:a2a7adbc.0504061717.5925faea@posting.google.com...
> Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic form
> of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a bunch of
> corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight. You'll be a
> slave, cannon fodder.
>
> Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
> you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.

I don't know what country you are from and what country's Army you are
talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air Force and would do it
again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air Force, though, so I don't blame you for
saying what you said. Your country's government is probably corrupt and
that's a dam good reason to get away from them as soon as possible.

Clyde Torres
Ex U.S. Air Force Sargeant, 4 years
GI Bill - Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering
Saw the World On Uncle Sam's Nickel
Worked On Some Pretty Cool Stuff That You Have No Idea Existed
Helped Defend The Country That Provides Me And Others With The Best
Resources
Others Before Me Provided For Me So I Paid Them Back
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 6:45:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Clyde Torres wrote:
> "Ilya Shambat" <ilyashambat@mailinator.com> wrote in message
> news:a2a7adbc.0504061717.5925faea@posting.google.com...
>> Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic
>> form of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a
>> bunch of corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight.
>> You'll be a slave, cannon fodder.
>>
>> Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
>> you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
>
> I don't know what country you are from and what country's Army you are
> talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air Force and would do
> it again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air Force, though, so I don't
> blame you for saying what you said. Your country's government is
> probably corrupt and that's a dam good reason to get away from them
> as soon as possible.
> Clyde Torres
> Ex U.S. Air Force Sargeant, 4 years
> GI Bill - Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering
> Saw the World On Uncle Sam's Nickel
> Worked On Some Pretty Cool Stuff That You Have No Idea Existed
> Helped Defend The Country That Provides Me And Others With The Best
> Resources
> Others Before Me Provided For Me So I Paid Them Back

1,550+ 11,000 wounded = 16,550 casualties.
About 150,000 troops in Iraq.

11% casualty rate for a "Slam Dunk" operation?
Is that acceptable?
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 6:45:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Clyde Torres wrote:
> "Ilya Shambat" <ilyashambat@mailinator.com> wrote in message
> news:a2a7adbc.0504061717.5925faea@posting.google.com...
>
>>Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic form
>>of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a bunch of
>>corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight. You'll be a
>>slave, cannon fodder.
>>
>>Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
>>you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
>
>
> I don't know what country you are from and what country's Army you are
> talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air Force and would do it
> again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air Force, though, so I don't blame you for
> saying what you said. Your country's government is probably corrupt and
> that's a dam good reason to get away from them as soon as possible.
>
> Clyde Torres
> Ex U.S. Air Force Sargeant, 4 years
> GI Bill - Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering
> Saw the World On Uncle Sam's Nickel
> Worked On Some Pretty Cool Stuff That You Have No Idea Existed
> Helped Defend The Country That Provides Me And Others With The Best
> Resources
> Others Before Me Provided For Me So I Paid Them Back
>
>
Been there, done that. Have the medals to prove it.
Though old, and a bit broken down, I would still proudly serve as I am able.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 6:45:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:Sd15e.30619$vL3.9572@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> Clyde Torres wrote:
> > "Ilya Shambat" <ilyashambat@mailinator.com> wrote in message
> > news:a2a7adbc.0504061717.5925faea@posting.google.com...
> >> Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic
> >> form of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a
> >> bunch of corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight.
> >> You'll be a slave, cannon fodder.
> >>
> >> Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
> >> you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
> >
> > I don't know what country you are from and what country's Army you are
> > talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air Force and would do
> > it again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air Force, though, so I don't
> > blame you for saying what you said. Your country's government is
> > probably corrupt and that's a dam good reason to get away from them
> > as soon as possible.
> > Clyde Torres
> > Ex U.S. Air Force Sargeant, 4 years
> > GI Bill - Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering
> > Saw the World On Uncle Sam's Nickel
> > Worked On Some Pretty Cool Stuff That You Have No Idea Existed
> > Helped Defend The Country That Provides Me And Others With The Best
> > Resources
> > Others Before Me Provided For Me So I Paid Them Back
>
> 1,550+ 11,000 wounded = 16,550 casualties.
> About 150,000 troops in Iraq.
>
> 11% casualty rate for a "Slam Dunk" operation?
> Is that acceptable?


11%? I estimate that there have been about 1 million now that have come and
gone in both Afganistan and Iraq by now. Your figures are a decimel point
off. It's closer to 1.4%
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 7:11:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:52:02 -0400, "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>Clyde Torres wrote:
>> "Ilya Shambat" <ilyashambat@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>> news:a2a7adbc.0504061717.5925faea@posting.google.com...
>>> Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic
>>> form of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a
>>> bunch of corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight.
>>> You'll be a slave, cannon fodder.
>>>
>>> Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
>>> you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
>>
>> I don't know what country you are from and what country's Army you are
>> talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air Force and would do
>> it again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air Force, though, so I don't
>> blame you for saying what you said. Your country's government is
>> probably corrupt and that's a dam good reason to get away from them
>> as soon as possible.
>> Clyde Torres
>> Ex U.S. Air Force Sargeant, 4 years
>> GI Bill - Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering
>> Saw the World On Uncle Sam's Nickel
>> Worked On Some Pretty Cool Stuff That You Have No Idea Existed
>> Helped Defend The Country That Provides Me And Others With The Best
>> Resources
>> Others Before Me Provided For Me So I Paid Them Back
>
>1,550+ 11,000 wounded = 16,550 casualties.
>About 150,000 troops in Iraq.
>
>11% casualty rate for a "Slam Dunk" operation?
>Is that acceptable?
>
Your logic is faulty. There may be 150,000 troops there at
any given moment, but they are rotated. There have been far more than
150,000 DIFFERENT people serving there and the casualty rate is
nowhere near 11%.
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 7:11:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 03:11:03 GMT, jimpgh2002
<pmojh1@xxnospamxxhotmail.com> wrote:


>>1,550+ 11,000 wounded = 16,550 casualties.
>>About 150,000 troops in Iraq.
>>
>>11% casualty rate for a "Slam Dunk" operation?
>>Is that acceptable?
>>
> Your logic is faulty. There may be 150,000 troops there at
>any given moment, but they are rotated. There have been far more than
>150,000 DIFFERENT people serving there and the casualty rate is
>nowhere near 11%.

Another thing to ask is just what you consider a 'casualty.'

That 11,000 number refers to the number of purple hearts awarded. Now
when you consider that most people who 'earn' a purple heart are
classified as RTD (Return To Duty) after medical treatment . . .





--
There can be no triumph without loss.
No victory without suffering.
No freedom without sacrifice.
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 7:17:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:52:02 -0400, "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>Clyde Torres wrote:
>> "Ilya Shambat" <ilyashambat@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>> news:a2a7adbc.0504061717.5925faea@posting.google.com...
>>> Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic
>>> form of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a
>>> bunch of corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight.
>>> You'll be a slave, cannon fodder.
>>>
>>> Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
>>> you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
>>
>> I don't know what country you are from and what country's Army you are
>> talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air Force and would do
>> it again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air Force, though, so I don't
>> blame you for saying what you said. Your country's government is
>> probably corrupt and that's a dam good reason to get away from them
>> as soon as possible.
>> Clyde Torres
>> Ex U.S. Air Force Sargeant, 4 years
>> GI Bill - Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering
>> Saw the World On Uncle Sam's Nickel
>> Worked On Some Pretty Cool Stuff That You Have No Idea Existed
>> Helped Defend The Country That Provides Me And Others With The Best
>> Resources
>> Others Before Me Provided For Me So I Paid Them Back
>
>1,550+ 11,000 wounded = 16,550 casualties.
>About 150,000 troops in Iraq.
>
>11% casualty rate for a "Slam Dunk" operation?
>Is that acceptable?
>


150,000 troops in Iraq at any one time.

So far about 1,000,000 troops have rotated through assuming that about
1/3 of the total (1.3 million) have been more than once.

Makes your casualty rate closer to 1.5%


---
COFFEE.EXE missing
Insert CUP and press ENTER to retry.

Signaleer http://signaleer.blogspot.com
This Day in U.S. Military History http://tdiumh.blogspot.com
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 9:28:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Army you are
> talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air Force and would do it
> again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air Force, though, so I don't blame you
for
> saying what you said. Your country's government is probably corrupt and
> that's a dam good reason to get away from them as soon as possible.


I am quite sure my government is corrupt. I am an American.

Cecil Palmiter
SP/5 91B20
US Army '72-'80
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 10:07:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:p 215e.1922$Ax7.800@fe04.lga...
> Ilya Shambat wrote:
>> Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic form
>> of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a bunch of
>> corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight. You'll be a
>> slave, cannon fodder.
>>
>> Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
>> you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
>
> Thank your for your opinion. Now go tell it to someone who cares about
> your opinion.
>
> You have the right to post this opinion because brave men and women died
> to give it to you, and to protect it.

And a scientist that created the abomb saved all the rest of you from
following the ones that died.

>
>
> --
> Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 10:07:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Chance Hopkins wrote:
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:p 215e.1922$Ax7.800@fe04.lga...
>
>>Ilya Shambat wrote:
>>
>>>Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic form
>>>of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a bunch of
>>>corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight. You'll be a
>>>slave, cannon fodder.
>>>
>>>Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
>>>you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
>>
>>Thank your for your opinion. Now go tell it to someone who cares about
>>your opinion.
>>
>>You have the right to post this opinion because brave men and women died
>>to give it to you, and to protect it.
>
>
> And a scientist that created the abomb saved all the rest of you from
> following the ones that died.
>
>
>>
>>--
>>Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
>
>
>
Different war. They wouldn't LET us nuke Hanoi. Bad decision!


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 2:33:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Sid9 wrote:
> Clyde Torres wrote:
>
>>"Ilya Shambat" <ilyashambat@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>>news:a2a7adbc.0504061717.5925faea@posting.google.com...
>>
>>>Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic
>>>form of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a
>>>bunch of corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight.
>>>You'll be a slave, cannon fodder.
>>>
>>>Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
>>>you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
>>
>>I don't know what country you are from and what country's Army you are
>>talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air Force and would do
>>it again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air Force, though, so I don't
>>blame you for saying what you said. Your country's government is
>>probably corrupt and that's a dam good reason to get away from them
>>as soon as possible.
>>Clyde Torres
>>Ex U.S. Air Force Sargeant, 4 years
>>GI Bill - Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering
>>Saw the World On Uncle Sam's Nickel
>>Worked On Some Pretty Cool Stuff That You Have No Idea Existed
>>Helped Defend The Country That Provides Me And Others With The Best
>>Resources
>>Others Before Me Provided For Me So I Paid Them Back
>
>
> 1,550+ 11,000 wounded = 16,550 casualties.
> About 150,000 troops in Iraq.
>
> 11% casualty rate for a "Slam Dunk" operation?
> Is that acceptable?
>
>

You obviously have no concept of 'what ever it takes'. Those numbers
you flip around so easily are paying for what may be one of the single
most significant events in modern history. The chance for Millions of
enslaved people to become really free, free with an actual voice in how
they are governed and by whom. A chance, albeit slim, to cause peace to
break out all over in an area of the world that is a cesspool of killing
and more killing. No one wants to see a fellow soldier die, but freedom
does not come easy, cheap and without serious sacrifice. Your problem
is that you just can't understand those that are willing to pay while
you walk around using up good air and taking what has been handed to
you. Man it must be bitter where you live.

Ed
USA Ret
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 4:09:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

This post was not made by Ilya Shambat.

Ilya Shambat wrote:
> Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic
form
> of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a bunch
of
> corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight. You'll be a
> slave, cannon fodder.
>
> Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
> you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 5:48:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 05:28:51 GMT, "Gene Palmiter"
<palmiter_gene@verizon.net> wrote:

>Army you are
>> talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air Force and would do it
>> again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air Force, though, so I don't blame you
>for
>> saying what you said. Your country's government is probably corrupt and
>> that's a dam good reason to get away from them as soon as possible.
>
>
>I am quite sure my government is corrupt. I am an American.
Then leave.
Regards,

>
>Cecil Palmiter
>SP/5 91B20
>US Army '72-'80
>
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 7:03:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

HawkCW4 wrote:
> Sid9 wrote:
>> Clyde Torres wrote:
>>
>>> "Ilya Shambat" <ilyashambat@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>>> news:a2a7adbc.0504061717.5925faea@posting.google.com...
>>>
>>>> Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic
>>>> form of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a
>>>> bunch of corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight.
>>>> You'll be a slave, cannon fodder.
>>>>
>>>> Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
>>>> you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
>>>
>>> I don't know what country you are from and what country's Army you
>>> are talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air Force and
>>> would do it again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air Force, though, so
>>> I don't blame you for saying what you said. Your country's
>>> government is probably corrupt and that's a dam good reason to get
>>> away from them as soon as possible.
>>> Clyde Torres
>>> Ex U.S. Air Force Sargeant, 4 years
>>> GI Bill - Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering
>>> Saw the World On Uncle Sam's Nickel
>>> Worked On Some Pretty Cool Stuff That You Have No Idea Existed
>>> Helped Defend The Country That Provides Me And Others With The Best
>>> Resources
>>> Others Before Me Provided For Me So I Paid Them Back
>>
>>
>> 1,550+ 11,000 wounded = 16,550 casualties.
>> About 150,000 troops in Iraq.
>>
>> 11% casualty rate for a "Slam Dunk" operation?
>> Is that acceptable?
>>
>>
>
> You obviously have no concept of 'what ever it takes'. Those numbers
> you flip around so easily are paying for what may be one of the single
> most significant events in modern history. The chance for Millions of
> enslaved people to become really free, free with an actual voice in
> how they are governed and by whom. A chance, albeit slim, to cause
> peace to break out all over in an area of the world that is a
> cesspool of killing and more killing. No one wants to see a fellow
> soldier die, but freedom does not come easy, cheap and without
> serious sacrifice. Your problem is that you just can't understand
> those that are willing to pay while you walk around using up good air
> and taking what has been handed to you. Man it must be bitter where
> you live.
> Ed
> USA Ret

Violates Bush,Jr's campaign promise of "NO NATION BUILDING"
A charge he made against Clinton, who was not involved in nation building.
Bush,Jr cannot be trusted to fulfill any promise he makes.
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 7:03:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Sid9 wrote:
> HawkCW4 wrote:
>
>>Sid9 wrote:
>>
>>>Clyde Torres wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Ilya Shambat" <ilyashambat@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:a2a7adbc.0504061717.5925faea@posting.google.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic
>>>>>form of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a
>>>>>bunch of corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight.
>>>>>You'll be a slave, cannon fodder.
>>>>>
>>>>>Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
>>>>>you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
>>>>
>>>>I don't know what country you are from and what country's Army you
>>>>are talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air Force and
>>>>would do it again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air Force, though, so
>>>>I don't blame you for saying what you said. Your country's
>>>>government is probably corrupt and that's a dam good reason to get
>>>>away from them as soon as possible.
>>>>Clyde Torres
>>>>Ex U.S. Air Force Sargeant, 4 years
>>>>GI Bill - Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering
>>>>Saw the World On Uncle Sam's Nickel
>>>>Worked On Some Pretty Cool Stuff That You Have No Idea Existed
>>>>Helped Defend The Country That Provides Me And Others With The Best
>>>>Resources
>>>>Others Before Me Provided For Me So I Paid Them Back
>>>
>>>
>>>1,550+ 11,000 wounded = 16,550 casualties.
>>>About 150,000 troops in Iraq.
>>>
>>>11% casualty rate for a "Slam Dunk" operation?
>>>Is that acceptable?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>You obviously have no concept of 'what ever it takes'. Those numbers
>>you flip around so easily are paying for what may be one of the single
>>most significant events in modern history. The chance for Millions of
>>enslaved people to become really free, free with an actual voice in
>>how they are governed and by whom. A chance, albeit slim, to cause
>>peace to break out all over in an area of the world that is a
>>cesspool of killing and more killing. No one wants to see a fellow
>>soldier die, but freedom does not come easy, cheap and without
>>serious sacrifice. Your problem is that you just can't understand
>>those that are willing to pay while you walk around using up good air
>>and taking what has been handed to you. Man it must be bitter where
>>you live.
>>Ed
>>USA Ret
>
>
> Violates Bush,Jr's campaign promise of "NO NATION BUILDING"
> A charge he made against Clinton, who was not involved in nation building.
> Bush,Jr cannot be trusted to fulfill any promise he makes.
>
>

But then you and those like you, do not get to go around interperating
what is and is not. Such as Nation Building.

So far Bush is doing what no other Pres has been able to do and the part
I like is that every day some damn radical Liberal who still can't
believe the Demos lost the election, will come screaming that Bush can't
do this or that because he is too dumb, but bang, he does it, and does
it again. And those same delusional radical loosers still keep coming
and predicting more failures which then Bush just continues to blow them
out of the water. THat infuriates the arrogant elitists of the left and
they could care less what Bush accomplishes, they will continue to
denigrate his efforts. How small and how shallow you have become.

Ed
USA Ret
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 11:33:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"HawkCW4" <HawkCW4@cox.net> wrote in message
news:B9e5e.16$Xs.9@fed1read03...
> Sid9 wrote:
> > Clyde Torres wrote:
> >
> >>"Ilya Shambat" <ilyashambat@mailinator.com> wrote in message
> >>news:a2a7adbc.0504061717.5925faea@posting.google.com...
> >>
> >>>Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic
> >>>form of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a
> >>>bunch of corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight.
> >>>You'll be a slave, cannon fodder.
> >>>
> >>>Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
> >>>you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
> >>
> >>I don't know what country you are from and what country's Army you are
> >>talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air Force and would do
> >>it again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air Force, though, so I don't
> >>blame you for saying what you said. Your country's government is
> >>probably corrupt and that's a dam good reason to get away from them
> >>as soon as possible.
> >>Clyde Torres
> >>Ex U.S. Air Force Sargeant, 4 years
> >>GI Bill - Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering
> >>Saw the World On Uncle Sam's Nickel
> >>Worked On Some Pretty Cool Stuff That You Have No Idea Existed
> >>Helped Defend The Country That Provides Me And Others With The Best
> >>Resources
> >>Others Before Me Provided For Me So I Paid Them Back
> >
> >
> > 1,550+ 11,000 wounded = 16,550 casualties.
> > About 150,000 troops in Iraq.
> >
> > 11% casualty rate for a "Slam Dunk" operation?
> > Is that acceptable?
> >
> >
>
> You obviously have no concept of 'what ever it takes'. Those numbers
> you flip around so easily are paying for what may be one of the single
> most significant events in modern history. The chance for Millions of
> enslaved people to become really free, free with an actual voice in how
> they are governed and by whom. A chance, albeit slim, to cause peace to
> break out all over in an area of the world that is a cesspool of killing
> and more killing. No one wants to see a fellow soldier die, but freedom
> does not come easy, cheap and without serious sacrifice. Your problem
> is that you just can't understand those that are willing to pay while
> you walk around using up good air and taking what has been handed to
> you. Man it must be bitter where you live.
>
> Ed
> USA Ret
>
>
>

Let's see now ... train people to carry weapons and use them. Then send same
people to somewhere they'll probably have to use them, e.g. premeditated.
Any other circumstance that's called murder...

And for what?

So the western style of capatilism can dicate still more of the worlds
people will have to prostitute themselves just to exists so that some
economic engine can continue to provide wealth etc. to only a few ...

From my viewpoint the US is one of the most dangerous countires in the world
because they seem to truly believe that everything else is secondary to
simply making money.
April 7, 2005 11:57:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Ilya Shambat wrote:

> Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic form
> of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a bunch of
> corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight. You'll be a
> slave, cannon fodder.
>
> Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
> you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
You haven't got balls! Get your mama to sew you a dress you gutless coward.
Anonymous
April 8, 2005 12:09:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Sid9 wrote:
> HawkCW4 wrote:
>
>>Sid9 wrote:
>>
>>>Clyde Torres wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Ilya Shambat" <ilyashambat@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:a2a7adbc.0504061717.5925faea@posting.google.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic
>>>>>form of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a
>>>>>bunch of corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight.
>>>>>You'll be a slave, cannon fodder.
>>>>>
>>>>>Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
>>>>>you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
>>>>
>>>>I don't know what country you are from and what country's Army you
>>>>are talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air Force and
>>>>would do it again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air Force, though, so
>>>>I don't blame you for saying what you said. Your country's
>>>>government is probably corrupt and that's a dam good reason to get
>>>>away from them as soon as possible.
>>>>Clyde Torres
>>>>Ex U.S. Air Force Sargeant, 4 years
>>>>GI Bill - Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering
>>>>Saw the World On Uncle Sam's Nickel
>>>>Worked On Some Pretty Cool Stuff That You Have No Idea Existed
>>>>Helped Defend The Country That Provides Me And Others With The Best
>>>>Resources
>>>>Others Before Me Provided For Me So I Paid Them Back
>>>
>>>
>>>1,550+ 11,000 wounded = 16,550 casualties.
>>>About 150,000 troops in Iraq.
>>>
>>>11% casualty rate for a "Slam Dunk" operation?
>>>Is that acceptable?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>You obviously have no concept of 'what ever it takes'. Those numbers
>>you flip around so easily are paying for what may be one of the single
>>most significant events in modern history. The chance for Millions of
>>enslaved people to become really free, free with an actual voice in
>>how they are governed and by whom. A chance, albeit slim, to cause
>>peace to break out all over in an area of the world that is a
>>cesspool of killing and more killing. No one wants to see a fellow
>>soldier die, but freedom does not come easy, cheap and without
>>serious sacrifice. Your problem is that you just can't understand
>>those that are willing to pay while you walk around using up good air
>>and taking what has been handed to you. Man it must be bitter where
>>you live.
>>Ed
>>USA Ret
>
>
> Violates Bush,Jr's campaign promise of "NO NATION BUILDING"
> A charge he made against Clinton, who was not involved in nation building.
> Bush,Jr cannot be trusted to fulfill any promise he makes.
>
>
Strange, I found a list of how many campaign promises he has kept, vs
not kept, and he seems to be well ahead of the last 10 or so presidents.
Maybe the problem is that you weren't in favor of those promises?


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
April 8, 2005 12:12:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

pjp wrote:
> "HawkCW4" <HawkCW4@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:B9e5e.16$Xs.9@fed1read03...
>
>>Sid9 wrote:
>>
>>>Clyde Torres wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Ilya Shambat" <ilyashambat@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:a2a7adbc.0504061717.5925faea@posting.google.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic
>>>>>form of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a
>>>>>bunch of corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight.
>>>>>You'll be a slave, cannon fodder.
>>>>>
>>>>>Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
>>>>>you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
>>>>
>>>>I don't know what country you are from and what country's Army you are
>>>>talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air Force and would do
>>>>it again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air Force, though, so I don't
>>>>blame you for saying what you said. Your country's government is
>>>>probably corrupt and that's a dam good reason to get away from them
>>>>as soon as possible.
>>>>Clyde Torres
>>>>Ex U.S. Air Force Sargeant, 4 years
>>>>GI Bill - Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering
>>>>Saw the World On Uncle Sam's Nickel
>>>>Worked On Some Pretty Cool Stuff That You Have No Idea Existed
>>>>Helped Defend The Country That Provides Me And Others With The Best
>>>>Resources
>>>>Others Before Me Provided For Me So I Paid Them Back
>>>
>>>
>>>1,550+ 11,000 wounded = 16,550 casualties.
>>>About 150,000 troops in Iraq.
>>>
>>>11% casualty rate for a "Slam Dunk" operation?
>>>Is that acceptable?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>You obviously have no concept of 'what ever it takes'. Those numbers
>>you flip around so easily are paying for what may be one of the single
>>most significant events in modern history. The chance for Millions of
>>enslaved people to become really free, free with an actual voice in how
>>they are governed and by whom. A chance, albeit slim, to cause peace to
>>break out all over in an area of the world that is a cesspool of killing
>>and more killing. No one wants to see a fellow soldier die, but freedom
>>does not come easy, cheap and without serious sacrifice. Your problem
>>is that you just can't understand those that are willing to pay while
>>you walk around using up good air and taking what has been handed to
>>you. Man it must be bitter where you live.
>>
>>Ed
>>USA Ret
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Let's see now ... train people to carry weapons and use them. Then send same
> people to somewhere they'll probably have to use them, e.g. premeditated.
> Any other circumstance that's called murder...
>
> And for what?
>
> So the western style of capatilism can dicate still more of the worlds
> people will have to prostitute themselves just to exists so that some
> economic engine can continue to provide wealth etc. to only a few ...
>
> From my viewpoint the US is one of the most dangerous countires in the world
> because they seem to truly believe that everything else is secondary to
> simply making money.
>
>
Funny, but don't you live in a country that at least claims to be
capitalistic? I admit the claim is a bit sullied by such things as
socialized, this and that, but basically making money seemed to be the
main aim of just about everyone I have met in Canada....


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
April 8, 2005 2:40:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Ron Hunter wrote:
> pjp wrote:
>
>> "HawkCW4" <HawkCW4@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:B9e5e.16$Xs.9@fed1read03...
>>
>>> Sid9 wrote:
>>>
>>>> Clyde Torres wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> "Ilya Shambat" <ilyashambat@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:a2a7adbc.0504061717.5925faea@posting.google.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic
>>>>>> form of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a
>>>>>> bunch of corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight.
>>>>>> You'll be a slave, cannon fodder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
>>>>>> you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know what country you are from and what country's Army you are
>>>>> talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air Force and would do
>>>>> it again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air Force, though, so I don't
>>>>> blame you for saying what you said. Your country's government is
>>>>> probably corrupt and that's a dam good reason to get away from them
>>>>> as soon as possible.
>>>>> Clyde Torres
>>>>> Ex U.S. Air Force Sargeant, 4 years
>>>>> GI Bill - Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering
>>>>> Saw the World On Uncle Sam's Nickel
>>>>> Worked On Some Pretty Cool Stuff That You Have No Idea Existed
>>>>> Helped Defend The Country That Provides Me And Others With The Best
>>>>> Resources
>>>>> Others Before Me Provided For Me So I Paid Them Back
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1,550+ 11,000 wounded = 16,550 casualties.
>>>> About 150,000 troops in Iraq.
>>>>
>>>> 11% casualty rate for a "Slam Dunk" operation?
>>>> Is that acceptable?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> You obviously have no concept of 'what ever it takes'. Those numbers
>>> you flip around so easily are paying for what may be one of the single
>>> most significant events in modern history. The chance for Millions of
>>> enslaved people to become really free, free with an actual voice in how
>>> they are governed and by whom. A chance, albeit slim, to cause peace to
>>> break out all over in an area of the world that is a cesspool of killing
>>> and more killing. No one wants to see a fellow soldier die, but freedom
>>> does not come easy, cheap and without serious sacrifice. Your problem
>>> is that you just can't understand those that are willing to pay while
>>> you walk around using up good air and taking what has been handed to
>>> you. Man it must be bitter where you live.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>> USA Ret
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Let's see now ... train people to carry weapons and use them. Then
>> send same
>> people to somewhere they'll probably have to use them, e.g. premeditated.
>> Any other circumstance that's called murder...
>>
>> And for what?
>>
>> So the western style of capatilism can dicate still more of the worlds
>> people will have to prostitute themselves just to exists so that some
>> economic engine can continue to provide wealth etc. to only a few ...
>>
>> From my viewpoint the US is one of the most dangerous countires in the
>> world
>> because they seem to truly believe that everything else is secondary to
>> simply making money.
>>
>>
> Funny, but don't you live in a country that at least claims to be
> capitalistic? I admit the claim is a bit sullied by such things as
> socialized, this and that, but basically making money seemed to be the
> main aim of just about everyone I have met in Canada....
>
>


Your assertion, while true, makes sense only when one understands that
killing people on this side of the pond usually results in a criminal
charge and subsequent incarceration. Apparently things are different
elsewhere.

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'
Anonymous
April 8, 2005 2:52:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Gene Palmiter" <palmiter_gene@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ny35e.3298$B12.1123@trnddc09...
> Army you are
>> talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air Force and would do it
>> again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air Force, though, so I don't blame you
> for
>> saying what you said. Your country's government is probably corrupt and
>> that's a dam good reason to get away from them as soon as possible.
>
>
> I am quite sure my government is corrupt. I am an American.
>
> Cecil Palmiter
> SP/5 91B20
> US Army '72-'80

I agree with you that our American government is corrupt, but it is all
relative. Try living in other countries, even as close as Mexico. You'll
really find out what corrupt is.

You were in the Army and could have gotten around to find this out. Did you
spend all your 20 years at Fort Benning or what?

Clyde Torres
April 8, 2005 2:52:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Clyde Torres wrote:
> "Gene Palmiter" <palmiter_gene@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:ny35e.3298$B12.1123@trnddc09...
>
>>Army you are
>>
>>>talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air Force and would do it
>>>again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air Force, though, so I don't blame you
>>
>>for
>>
>>>saying what you said. Your country's government is probably corrupt and
>>>that's a dam good reason to get away from them as soon as possible.
>>
>>
>>I am quite sure my government is corrupt. I am an American.
>>
>>Cecil Palmiter
>>SP/5 91B20
>>US Army '72-'80
>
>
> I agree with you that our American government is corrupt, but it is all
> relative. Try living in other countries, even as close as Mexico. You'll
> really find out what corrupt is.
>
> You were in the Army and could have gotten around to find this out. Did you
> spend all your 20 years at Fort Benning or what?
>
> Clyde Torres
>
>


I know what corrupt is, Clyde, both south and north of the border. The
difference is, south of the border, they know their government is corrupt.

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'
Anonymous
April 8, 2005 2:52:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 22:52:22 GMT, "Clyde Torres"
<clyde_torres@yahooo.com> wrote:

>"Gene Palmiter" <palmiter_gene@verizon.net> wrote in message
>news:ny35e.3298$B12.1123@trnddc09...
>> Army you are
>>> talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air Force and would do it
>>> again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air Force, though, so I don't blame you
>> for
>>> saying what you said. Your country's government is probably corrupt and
>>> that's a dam good reason to get away from them as soon as possible.
>>
>>
>> I am quite sure my government is corrupt. I am an American.
>>
>> Cecil Palmiter
>> SP/5 91B20
>> US Army '72-'80
>
>I agree with you that our American government is corrupt, but it is all
>relative. Try living in other countries, even as close as Mexico. You'll
>really find out what corrupt is.
>
>You were in the Army and could have gotten around to find this out. Did you
>spend all your 20 years at Fort Benning or what?
>
>Clyde Torres
>

20 years?

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
Anonymous
April 8, 2005 2:52:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Jer wrote:
> Clyde Torres wrote:
>
>> "Gene Palmiter" <palmiter_gene@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:ny35e.3298$B12.1123@trnddc09...
>>
>>> Army you are
>>>
>>>> talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air Force and would
>>>> do it
>>>> again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air Force, though, so I don't blame
>>>> you
>>>
>>>
>>> for
>>>
>>>> saying what you said. Your country's government is probably corrupt
>>>> and
>>>> that's a dam good reason to get away from them as soon as possible.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am quite sure my government is corrupt. I am an American.
>>>
>>> Cecil Palmiter
>>> SP/5 91B20
>>> US Army '72-'80
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree with you that our American government is corrupt, but it is
>> all relative. Try living in other countries, even as close as
>> Mexico. You'll really find out what corrupt is.
>>
>> You were in the Army and could have gotten around to find this out.
>> Did you spend all your 20 years at Fort Benning or what?
>>
>> Clyde Torres
>>
>
>
> I know what corrupt is, Clyde, both south and north of the border. The
> difference is, south of the border, they know their government is corrupt.
>

Not so much as it has been for the past 100 years or more. I don't know
if it is Fox or what, but Mexico does not seem to me to be so corrupt in
the areas we used to hear so much about.

We used to hear stories of Mexican police, Federales, you name it,
stopping US plated cars and writing up big tickets,from which you could
'pay the fine on the spot' as if it were going to ever reach city hall.
Now I am not going to suggest that I have ever bribed or attempted to
bribe a Mexican Officer, BUT I have offered to pay the fine on the spot,
rather than go thru the hoops required to get it done.

Example would be my being caught speeding in a small town in the
mountains between Tepic and Mazatlan. When they write the ticket, they
also take your drivers license, and you can only get it back by going to
the magistrate and paying the fine. THat is not all that bad, but I was
going home for Christmas and did not wish to wait over the weekend and
back travel some 200 miles to do that, so I asked him to take the money
and pay the fine. He refused, but did ask me more about why I was down
there and where I was going and why. He seemed interested so I showed
him some pictures and maps of our project. He soon smiled, told me to
be carefull and to go home to my family.

I have been stopped a total of three times in Mexico where I was wrong,
and in every case I was let off the hook, no fine, no corruption
anywhere that I could see. OH I almost forgot, I did pay one fine. I
was cited in my own village for not having my seat belt on. In front of
me was a pickup with 5 people, one cow, and 2 goats in the back end.
But I paid my fine. It cost me 2.00 US Money, and they gave me a
reciept that was worth 4.00. Prettiest thing I ever saw. I still have
a scanned picture on my computer because I liked it so much. OH the
ticket was for 44 pesos or about 4.00, but because I paid quickly I got
a 50% discount to 22 pesos or about 2.00.

All in all, I spent 3 years in Mexico, from Culiacan, Capitol of
Sinaloa, to El Tuito, Cabo Corrientes, Jalisco, which is about 45 miles
south of Puerto Vallarta and in the mountains. In all that time I never
once saw, nor heard of any such corruption. I would not like to vouch
for higher levels of the Government.

Ed
USA Ret
Anonymous
April 8, 2005 5:24:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

HawkCW4 wrote:
> Sid9 wrote:
>> HawkCW4 wrote:
>>
>>> Sid9 wrote:
>>>
>>>> Clyde Torres wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> "Ilya Shambat" <ilyashambat@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:a2a7adbc.0504061717.5925faea@posting.google.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic
>>>>>> form of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for
>>>>>> a bunch of corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a
>>>>>> knight. You'll be a slave, cannon fodder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good
>>>>>> when you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know what country you are from and what country's Army you
>>>>> are talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air Force and
>>>>> would do it again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air Force, though, so
>>>>> I don't blame you for saying what you said. Your country's
>>>>> government is probably corrupt and that's a dam good reason to get
>>>>> away from them as soon as possible.
>>>>> Clyde Torres
>>>>> Ex U.S. Air Force Sargeant, 4 years
>>>>> GI Bill - Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering
>>>>> Saw the World On Uncle Sam's Nickel
>>>>> Worked On Some Pretty Cool Stuff That You Have No Idea Existed
>>>>> Helped Defend The Country That Provides Me And Others With The
>>>>> Best Resources
>>>>> Others Before Me Provided For Me So I Paid Them Back
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1,550+ 11,000 wounded = 16,550 casualties.
>>>> About 150,000 troops in Iraq.
>>>>
>>>> 11% casualty rate for a "Slam Dunk" operation?
>>>> Is that acceptable?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> You obviously have no concept of 'what ever it takes'. Those
>>> numbers you flip around so easily are paying for what may be one of
>>> the single most significant events in modern history. The chance
>>> for Millions of enslaved people to become really free, free with an
>>> actual voice in how they are governed and by whom. A chance,
>>> albeit slim, to cause peace to break out all over in an area of the
>>> world that is a cesspool of killing and more killing. No one wants
>>> to see a fellow soldier die, but freedom does not come easy, cheap
>>> and without serious sacrifice. Your problem is that you just can't
>>> understand those that are willing to pay while you walk around
>>> using up good air and taking what has been handed to you. Man it
>>> must be bitter where you live.
>>> Ed
>>> USA Ret
>>
>>
>> Violates Bush,Jr's campaign promise of "NO NATION BUILDING"
>> A charge he made against Clinton, who was not involved in nation
>> building. Bush,Jr cannot be trusted to fulfill any promise he makes.
>>
>>
>
> But then you and those like you, do not get to go around interperating
> what is and is not. Such as Nation Building.
>
> So far Bush is doing what no other Pres has been able to do and the
> part I like is that every day some damn radical Liberal who still
> can't believe the Demos lost the election, will come screaming that
> Bush can't do this or that because he is too dumb, but bang, he does
> it, and does it again. And those same delusional radical loosers
> still keep coming and predicting more failures which then Bush just
> continues to blow them out of the water. THat infuriates the
> arrogant elitists of the left and they could care less what Bush
> accomplishes, they will continue to denigrate his efforts. How small
> and how shallow you have become.
> Ed
> USA Ret

Some Bush,Jr accomplishements:

Never vetoed a spending bill.
Lied about Nation Building during the campaign.
Has weakened national defense with a war built on lies
Has damaged Army and Marine recruitment
Turned a solid federal financial position into a ruin in less than eight
months.
Was AWOL when presented with the Al Qaida threat.
Supports a law that allows the government to spy on you without a court
order.
Caused a 30% devaluation of the dollar.
Caused gas prices to skyrocket due to instability and uncertainty in the
Middle East
Is there Enron style futures trading in oil?
Has turned our country from the most admired country to the most despised
country world wide.
Bush,Jr has accomplished a personal detachment from the American people (who
he seems to fear greatly)
Bush,Jr damages our environment every day he's in office.
There's more...others welcome to contribute.
Anonymous
April 8, 2005 5:30:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Jer wrote:
> Ron Hunter wrote:
>
>> pjp wrote:
>>
>>> "HawkCW4" <HawkCW4@cox.net> wrote in message
>>> news:B9e5e.16$Xs.9@fed1read03...
>>>
>>>> Sid9 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Clyde Torres wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Ilya Shambat" <ilyashambat@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:a2a7adbc.0504061717.5925faea@posting.google.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic
>>>>>>> form of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a
>>>>>>> bunch of corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight.
>>>>>>> You'll be a slave, cannon fodder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
>>>>>>> you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know what country you are from and what country's Army you
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air Force and would do
>>>>>> it again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air Force, though, so I don't
>>>>>> blame you for saying what you said. Your country's government is
>>>>>> probably corrupt and that's a dam good reason to get away from them
>>>>>> as soon as possible.
>>>>>> Clyde Torres
>>>>>> Ex U.S. Air Force Sargeant, 4 years
>>>>>> GI Bill - Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering
>>>>>> Saw the World On Uncle Sam's Nickel
>>>>>> Worked On Some Pretty Cool Stuff That You Have No Idea Existed
>>>>>> Helped Defend The Country That Provides Me And Others With The Best
>>>>>> Resources
>>>>>> Others Before Me Provided For Me So I Paid Them Back
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1,550+ 11,000 wounded = 16,550 casualties.
>>>>> About 150,000 troops in Iraq.
>>>>>
>>>>> 11% casualty rate for a "Slam Dunk" operation?
>>>>> Is that acceptable?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You obviously have no concept of 'what ever it takes'. Those numbers
>>>> you flip around so easily are paying for what may be one of the single
>>>> most significant events in modern history. The chance for Millions of
>>>> enslaved people to become really free, free with an actual voice in how
>>>> they are governed and by whom. A chance, albeit slim, to cause
>>>> peace to
>>>> break out all over in an area of the world that is a cesspool of
>>>> killing
>>>> and more killing. No one wants to see a fellow soldier die, but
>>>> freedom
>>>> does not come easy, cheap and without serious sacrifice. Your problem
>>>> is that you just can't understand those that are willing to pay while
>>>> you walk around using up good air and taking what has been handed to
>>>> you. Man it must be bitter where you live.
>>>>
>>>> Ed
>>>> USA Ret
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Let's see now ... train people to carry weapons and use them. Then
>>> send same
>>> people to somewhere they'll probably have to use them, e.g.
>>> premeditated.
>>> Any other circumstance that's called murder...
>>>
>>> And for what?
>>>
>>> So the western style of capatilism can dicate still more of the worlds
>>> people will have to prostitute themselves just to exists so that some
>>> economic engine can continue to provide wealth etc. to only a few ...
>>>
>>> From my viewpoint the US is one of the most dangerous countires in
>>> the world
>>> because they seem to truly believe that everything else is secondary to
>>> simply making money.
>>>
>>>
>> Funny, but don't you live in a country that at least claims to be
>> capitalistic? I admit the claim is a bit sullied by such things as
>> socialized, this and that, but basically making money seemed to be the
>> main aim of just about everyone I have met in Canada....
>>
>>
>
>
> Your assertion, while true, makes sense only when one understands that
> killing people on this side of the pond usually results in a criminal
> charge and subsequent incarceration. Apparently things are different
> elsewhere.
>
Murder (illegal killing) results in either incarceration, or the death
penalty here. What is your point?


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
April 8, 2005 5:36:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Ron Hunter wrote:
> pjp wrote:
>> "HawkCW4" <HawkCW4@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:B9e5e.16$Xs.9@fed1read03...
>>
>>> Sid9 wrote:
>>>
>>>> Clyde Torres wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> "Ilya Shambat" <ilyashambat@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:a2a7adbc.0504061717.5925faea@posting.google.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic
>>>>>> form of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for
>>>>>> a bunch of corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a
>>>>>> knight. You'll be a slave, cannon fodder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good
>>>>>> when you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know what country you are from and what country's Army
>>>>> you are talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air Force
>>>>> and would do it again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air Force,
>>>>> though, so I don't blame you for saying what you said. Your
>>>>> country's government is probably corrupt and that's a dam good
>>>>> reason to get away from them as soon as possible.
>>>>> Clyde Torres
>>>>> Ex U.S. Air Force Sargeant, 4 years
>>>>> GI Bill - Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering
>>>>> Saw the World On Uncle Sam's Nickel
>>>>> Worked On Some Pretty Cool Stuff That You Have No Idea Existed
>>>>> Helped Defend The Country That Provides Me And Others With The
>>>>> Best Resources
>>>>> Others Before Me Provided For Me So I Paid Them Back
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1,550+ 11,000 wounded = 16,550 casualties.
>>>> About 150,000 troops in Iraq.
>>>>
>>>> 11% casualty rate for a "Slam Dunk" operation?
>>>> Is that acceptable?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> You obviously have no concept of 'what ever it takes'. Those
>>> numbers you flip around so easily are paying for what may be one of
>>> the single most significant events in modern history. The chance
>>> for Millions of enslaved people to become really free, free with an
>>> actual voice in how they are governed and by whom. A chance,
>>> albeit slim, to cause peace to break out all over in an area of the
>>> world that is a cesspool of killing and more killing. No one wants
>>> to see a fellow soldier die, but freedom does not come easy, cheap
>>> and without serious sacrifice. Your problem is that you just can't
>>> understand those that are willing to pay while you walk around
>>> using up good air and taking what has been handed to you. Man it
>>> must be bitter where you live. Ed
>>> USA Ret
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Let's see now ... train people to carry weapons and use them. Then
>> send same people to somewhere they'll probably have to use them,
>> e.g. premeditated. Any other circumstance that's called murder...
>>
>> And for what?
>>
>> So the western style of capatilism can dicate still more of the
>> worlds people will have to prostitute themselves just to exists so
>> that some economic engine can continue to provide wealth etc. to
>> only a few ... From my viewpoint the US is one of the most dangerous
>> countires in
>> the world because they seem to truly believe that everything else is
>> secondary to simply making money.
>>
>>
> Funny, but don't you live in a country that at least claims to be
> capitalistic? I admit the claim is a bit sullied by such things as
> socialized, this and that, but basically making money seemed to be the
> main aim of just about everyone I have met in Canada....

The lessaiz faire(sp?) "capitalist" system is inherently unstable.
It oscillates from boom to bust causing severe hardship to the citizenry .
Smart people in our country decided that we would try to stabilize the
system.
So America has a system that is called a "mixed system"
It's worked pretty well for 65 years.
We have had a relatively smooth economic situation with only small
variations.
We have a lot more capitalism that "Socialism"
In fact, the only "socialistic" enterprises are things like water systems,
roads, miltary, bridges, airports, and the like.
Anonymous
April 8, 2005 5:48:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 18:17:35 -0700, Ilya Shambat wrote:

> Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic form
> of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a bunch of
> corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight. You'll be a
> slave, cannon fodder.
>
> Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
> you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.

Am I the only one here that finds it hysterically funny that Shambutt
cross-posted this to soc.veterans? One would logically think that "horse
already left the barn."

--
John Teague
__________________________________

"Hard pressed on my right; my left is in retreat. My center is
yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am
attacking..."
- General Ferdinand Foch
Anonymous
April 8, 2005 5:50:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"John Teague" <john@NOSPAMsimanage.com> wrote in message
news:p an.2005.04.08.01.47.31.452065@NOSPAMsimanage.com...
> On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 18:17:35 -0700, Ilya Shambat wrote:
>
>> Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic form
>> of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a bunch of
>> corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight. You'll be a
>> slave, cannon fodder.
>>
>> Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
>> you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
>
> Am I the only one here that finds it hysterically funny that Shambutt
> cross-posted this to soc.veterans? One would logically think that "horse
> already left the barn."
>
> --
> John Teague


What's even more "hysterical" ... nay ... *pathetic* is that it was
not the *real* Ilya Shambat who posted this but a chickenshit impostor who
hijacked Ilya's ID.

- n'a (who knows Ilya)
Anonymous
April 8, 2005 5:50:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

La N wrote:
> "John Teague" <john@NOSPAMsimanage.com> wrote in message
> news:p an.2005.04.08.01.47.31.452065@NOSPAMsimanage.com...
>
>>On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 18:17:35 -0700, Ilya Shambat wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic form
>>>of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for a bunch of
>>>corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a knight. You'll be a
>>>slave, cannon fodder.
>>>
>>>Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good when
>>>you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
>>
>>Am I the only one here that finds it hysterically funny that Shambutt
>>cross-posted this to soc.veterans? One would logically think that "horse
>>already left the barn."
>>
>>--
>>John Teague
>
>
>
> What's even more "hysterical" ... nay ... *pathetic* is that it was
> not the *real* Ilya Shambat who posted this but a chickenshit impostor who
> hijacked Ilya's ID.
>
> - n'a (who knows Ilya)
>
>
Pretty typical of the type. Not even enough balls to use his own name.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
April 8, 2005 5:48:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Sid9 wrote:
> HawkCW4 wrote:
>
>>Sid9 wrote:
>>
>>>HawkCW4 wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Sid9 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Clyde Torres wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Ilya Shambat" <ilyashambat@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:a2a7adbc.0504061717.5925faea@posting.google.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic
>>>>>>>form of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for
>>>>>>>a bunch of corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a
>>>>>>>knight. You'll be a slave, cannon fodder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good
>>>>>>>when you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't know what country you are from and what country's Army you
>>>>>>are talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air Force and
>>>>>>would do it again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air Force, though, so
>>>>>>I don't blame you for saying what you said. Your country's
>>>>>>government is probably corrupt and that's a dam good reason to get
>>>>>>away from them as soon as possible.
>>>>>>Clyde Torres
>>>>>>Ex U.S. Air Force Sargeant, 4 years
>>>>>>GI Bill - Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering
>>>>>>Saw the World On Uncle Sam's Nickel
>>>>>>Worked On Some Pretty Cool Stuff That You Have No Idea Existed
>>>>>>Helped Defend The Country That Provides Me And Others With The
>>>>>>Best Resources
>>>>>>Others Before Me Provided For Me So I Paid Them Back
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>1,550+ 11,000 wounded = 16,550 casualties.
>>>>>About 150,000 troops in Iraq.
>>>>>
>>>>>11% casualty rate for a "Slam Dunk" operation?
>>>>>Is that acceptable?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You obviously have no concept of 'what ever it takes'. Those
>>>>numbers you flip around so easily are paying for what may be one of
>>>>the single most significant events in modern history. The chance
>>>>for Millions of enslaved people to become really free, free with an
>>>>actual voice in how they are governed and by whom. A chance,
>>>>albeit slim, to cause peace to break out all over in an area of the
>>>>world that is a cesspool of killing and more killing. No one wants
>>>>to see a fellow soldier die, but freedom does not come easy, cheap
>>>>and without serious sacrifice. Your problem is that you just can't
>>>>understand those that are willing to pay while you walk around
>>>>using up good air and taking what has been handed to you. Man it
>>>>must be bitter where you live.
>>>>Ed
>>>>USA Ret
>>>
>>>
>>>Violates Bush,Jr's campaign promise of "NO NATION BUILDING"
>>>A charge he made against Clinton, who was not involved in nation
>>>building. Bush,Jr cannot be trusted to fulfill any promise he makes.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>But then you and those like you, do not get to go around interperating
>>what is and is not. Such as Nation Building.
>>
>>So far Bush is doing what no other Pres has been able to do and the
>>part I like is that every day some damn radical Liberal who still
>>can't believe the Demos lost the election, will come screaming that
>>Bush can't do this or that because he is too dumb, but bang, he does
>>it, and does it again. And those same delusional radical loosers
>>still keep coming and predicting more failures which then Bush just
>>continues to blow them out of the water. THat infuriates the
>>arrogant elitists of the left and they could care less what Bush
>>accomplishes, they will continue to denigrate his efforts. How small
>>and how shallow you have become.
>>Ed
>>USA Ret
>
>
> Some Bush,Jr accomplishements:
>
> Never vetoed a spending bill.
> Lied about Nation Building during the campaign.
> Has weakened national defense with a war built on lies
> Has damaged Army and Marine recruitment
> Turned a solid federal financial position into a ruin in less than eight
> months.
> Was AWOL when presented with the Al Qaida threat.
> Supports a law that allows the government to spy on you without a court
> order.
> Caused a 30% devaluation of the dollar.
> Caused gas prices to skyrocket due to instability and uncertainty in the
> Middle East
> Is there Enron style futures trading in oil?
> Has turned our country from the most admired country to the most despised
> country world wide.
> Bush,Jr has accomplished a personal detachment from the American people (who
> he seems to fear greatly)
> Bush,Jr damages our environment every day he's in office.
> There's more...others welcome to contribute.
>
>

Sid, your opinions are noted, but they *are* just opinions. You appear
to be a very poor looser in that we now have a Republican Pres and
Senate and HofR. You display your inability to cope with that set back,
(which will prob last 40 years or so) by coming here to bad mouth Bush
for every hicup that has occured beginning some 10 months before he took
office to date. It matters not however, as Bush will do as he has
always done, and that is to continue to make it possible for Millions of
people to have some say in their life. THat you are unwilling to accept
that as being a good thing only supports my rather jaded view of many
ultra liberals out there doing the whine dance.

Ed
USA Ret
Anonymous
April 8, 2005 6:30:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

HawkCW4 wrote:
> Sid9 wrote:
>
>> HawkCW4 wrote:
>>
>>> Sid9 wrote:
>>>
>>>> HawkCW4 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Sid9 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Clyde Torres wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Ilya Shambat" <ilyashambat@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:a2a7adbc.0504061717.5925faea@posting.google.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a nationalistic
>>>>>>>> form of mental illness. You want your balls getting shot off for
>>>>>>>> a bunch of corrupt oil and service companies? You won't be a
>>>>>>>> knight. You'll be a slave, cannon fodder.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any good
>>>>>>>> when you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know what country you are from and what country's Army you
>>>>>>> are talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air Force and
>>>>>>> would do it again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air Force, though, so
>>>>>>> I don't blame you for saying what you said. Your country's
>>>>>>> government is probably corrupt and that's a dam good reason to get
>>>>>>> away from them as soon as possible.
>>>>>>> Clyde Torres
>>>>>>> Ex U.S. Air Force Sargeant, 4 years
>>>>>>> GI Bill - Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering
>>>>>>> Saw the World On Uncle Sam's Nickel
>>>>>>> Worked On Some Pretty Cool Stuff That You Have No Idea Existed
>>>>>>> Helped Defend The Country That Provides Me And Others With The
>>>>>>> Best Resources
>>>>>>> Others Before Me Provided For Me So I Paid Them Back
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1,550+ 11,000 wounded = 16,550 casualties.
>>>>>> About 150,000 troops in Iraq.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 11% casualty rate for a "Slam Dunk" operation?
>>>>>> Is that acceptable?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You obviously have no concept of 'what ever it takes'. Those
>>>>> numbers you flip around so easily are paying for what may be one of
>>>>> the single most significant events in modern history. The chance
>>>>> for Millions of enslaved people to become really free, free with an
>>>>> actual voice in how they are governed and by whom. A chance,
>>>>> albeit slim, to cause peace to break out all over in an area of the
>>>>> world that is a cesspool of killing and more killing. No one wants
>>>>> to see a fellow soldier die, but freedom does not come easy, cheap
>>>>> and without serious sacrifice. Your problem is that you just can't
>>>>> understand those that are willing to pay while you walk around
>>>>> using up good air and taking what has been handed to you. Man it
>>>>> must be bitter where you live.
>>>>> Ed
>>>>> USA Ret
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Violates Bush,Jr's campaign promise of "NO NATION BUILDING"
>>>> A charge he made against Clinton, who was not involved in nation
>>>> building. Bush,Jr cannot be trusted to fulfill any promise he makes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> But then you and those like you, do not get to go around interperating
>>> what is and is not. Such as Nation Building.
>>>
>>> So far Bush is doing what no other Pres has been able to do and the
>>> part I like is that every day some damn radical Liberal who still
>>> can't believe the Demos lost the election, will come screaming that
>>> Bush can't do this or that because he is too dumb, but bang, he does
>>> it, and does it again. And those same delusional radical loosers
>>> still keep coming and predicting more failures which then Bush just
>>> continues to blow them out of the water. THat infuriates the
>>> arrogant elitists of the left and they could care less what Bush
>>> accomplishes, they will continue to denigrate his efforts. How small
>>> and how shallow you have become.
>>> Ed
>>> USA Ret
>>
>>
>>
>> Some Bush,Jr accomplishements:
>>
>> Never vetoed a spending bill.
>> Lied about Nation Building during the campaign.
>> Has weakened national defense with a war built on lies
>> Has damaged Army and Marine recruitment
>> Turned a solid federal financial position into a ruin in less than
>> eight months.
>> Was AWOL when presented with the Al Qaida threat.
>> Supports a law that allows the government to spy on you without a
>> court order.
>> Caused a 30% devaluation of the dollar.
>> Caused gas prices to skyrocket due to instability and uncertainty in
>> the Middle East
>> Is there Enron style futures trading in oil?
>> Has turned our country from the most admired country to the most
>> despised country world wide.
>> Bush,Jr has accomplished a personal detachment from the American
>> people (who he seems to fear greatly)
>> Bush,Jr damages our environment every day he's in office.
>> There's more...others welcome to contribute.
>>
>>
>
> Sid, your opinions are noted, but they *are* just opinions. You appear
> to be a very poor looser in that we now have a Republican Pres and
> Senate and HofR. You display your inability to cope with that set back,
> (which will prob last 40 years or so) by coming here to bad mouth Bush
> for every hicup that has occured beginning some 10 months before he took
> office to date. It matters not however, as Bush will do as he has
> always done, and that is to continue to make it possible for Millions of
> people to have some say in their life. THat you are unwilling to accept
> that as being a good thing only supports my rather jaded view of many
> ultra liberals out there doing the whine dance.
>
> Ed
> USA Ret


Bad form to reply to ones own post, but it occurs to me that ol Sid is
not even American. Damn Sid, it isn't just the Rebublicans you hate, it
is ALL Americans. I guess that is easyer than haveing to think about
anything.

Ed
USA Ret
Anonymous
April 8, 2005 8:57:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

HawkCW4 wrote:
> Sid9 wrote:
>> HawkCW4 wrote:
>>
>>> Sid9 wrote:
>>>
>>>> HawkCW4 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Sid9 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Clyde Torres wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Ilya Shambat" <ilyashambat@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:a2a7adbc.0504061717.5925faea@posting.google.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Don't buy into the recruiting bullshit, it's just a
>>>>>>>> nationalistic form of mental illness. You want your balls
>>>>>>>> getting shot off for a bunch of corrupt oil and service
>>>>>>>> companies? You won't be a knight. You'll be a slave, cannon
>>>>>>>> fodder. Get an education, serve your fellow man. You can't do any
>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>> when you're six feet under. Don't believe the hype.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know what country you are from and what country's Army
>>>>>>> you are talking about, but I proudly servd in the U.S. Air
>>>>>>> Force and would do it again. I wouldn't serve in YOUR Air
>>>>>>> Force, though, so I don't blame you for saying what you said. Your
>>>>>>> country's government is probably corrupt and that's a dam
>>>>>>> good reason to get away from them as soon as possible.
>>>>>>> Clyde Torres
>>>>>>> Ex U.S. Air Force Sargeant, 4 years
>>>>>>> GI Bill - Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering
>>>>>>> Saw the World On Uncle Sam's Nickel
>>>>>>> Worked On Some Pretty Cool Stuff That You Have No Idea Existed
>>>>>>> Helped Defend The Country That Provides Me And Others With The
>>>>>>> Best Resources
>>>>>>> Others Before Me Provided For Me So I Paid Them Back
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1,550+ 11,000 wounded = 16,550 casualties.
>>>>>> About 150,000 troops in Iraq.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 11% casualty rate for a "Slam Dunk" operation?
>>>>>> Is that acceptable?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You obviously have no concept of 'what ever it takes'. Those
>>>>> numbers you flip around so easily are paying for what may be one
>>>>> of the single most significant events in modern history. The
>>>>> chance for Millions of enslaved people to become really free,
>>>>> free with an actual voice in how they are governed and by whom. A
>>>>> chance, albeit slim, to cause peace to break out all over in an
>>>>> area of the world that is a cesspool of killing and more killing.
>>>>> No one wants to see a fellow soldier die, but freedom does not
>>>>> come easy, cheap and without serious sacrifice. Your problem is
>>>>> that you just can't understand those that are willing to pay
>>>>> while you walk around using up good air and taking what has been
>>>>> handed to you. Man it must be bitter where you live.
>>>>> Ed
>>>>> USA Ret
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Violates Bush,Jr's campaign promise of "NO NATION BUILDING"
>>>> A charge he made against Clinton, who was not involved in nation
>>>> building. Bush,Jr cannot be trusted to fulfill any promise he
>>>> makes.
>>>
>>> But then you and those like you, do not get to go around
>>> interperating what is and is not. Such as Nation Building.
>>>
>>> So far Bush is doing what no other Pres has been able to do and the
>>> part I like is that every day some damn radical Liberal who still
>>> can't believe the Demos lost the election, will come screaming that
>>> Bush can't do this or that because he is too dumb, but bang, he does
>>> it, and does it again. And those same delusional radical loosers
>>> still keep coming and predicting more failures which then Bush just
>>> continues to blow them out of the water. THat infuriates the
>>> arrogant elitists of the left and they could care less what Bush
>>> accomplishes, they will continue to denigrate his efforts. How
>>> small and how shallow you have become.
>>> Ed
>>> USA Ret
>>
>>
>> Some Bush,Jr accomplishements:
>>
>> Never vetoed a spending bill.
>> Lied about Nation Building during the campaign.
>> Has weakened national defense with a war built on lies
>> Has damaged Army and Marine recruitment
>> Turned a solid federal financial position into a ruin in less than
>> eight months.
>> Was AWOL when presented with the Al Qaida threat.
>> Supports a law that allows the government to spy on you without a
>> court order.
>> Caused a 30% devaluation of the dollar.
>> Caused gas prices to skyrocket due to instability and uncertainty in
>> the Middle East
>> Is there Enron style futures trading in oil?
>> Has turned our country from the most admired country to the most
>> despised country world wide.
>> Bush,Jr has accomplished a personal detachment from the American
>> people (who he seems to fear greatly)
>> Bush,Jr damages our environment every day he's in office.
>> There's more...others welcome to contribute.
>>
>>
>
> Sid, your opinions are noted, but they *are* just opinions. You
> appear to be a very poor looser in that we now have a Republican Pres
> and Senate and HofR. You display your inability to cope with that
> set back, (which will prob last 40 years or so) by coming here to bad
> mouth Bush for every hicup that has occured beginning some 10 months
> before he took office to date. It matters not however, as Bush will
> do as he has always done, and that is to continue to make it possible
> for Millions of people to have some say in their life. THat you are
> unwilling to accept that as being a good thing only supports my
> rather jaded view of many ultra liberals out there doing the whine
> dance.
> Ed
> USA Ret

The problem is that Bush,Jr is *NOT* doing what you think he's doing.
He's running a scam by not telling what his plan is.
He has, by screwing up government finances, put every American's life and
well being at risk.
Anonymous
April 8, 2005 8:57:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Sid9 commented courteously...

> The problem is that Bush,Jr is *NOT* doing what you
> think he's doing. He's running a scam by not telling
> what his plan is. He has, by screwing up government
> finances, put every American's life and well being at
> risk.

Sid, I've been voting in presidential elections since I
reached the age of majority in 1968. I have to say that
not *once* was I able to vote for the candidate I thought
was "best". I always have wound up voting for the one I
thought was least "bad".

I consider myself a political "centrist". i.e., I take
some things out of the Democratic platforms and some
things out of the Republican platforms. That works OK, I
guess, except that when I step into a voting booth to vote
for president, senator, or representative, I'm still left
with the same damn problem: which one is the age-old
lesser-of-two-evils?

I'm not posting this to defend W but only to comment that
in my experience there hasn't been a president since 1968
that I thought told the truth all the time, or even the
majority of the time, regardless of party affiliation
(maybe there never has been a truthful president and/or
one that kept their campaign promises!).

--
ATM, aka Jerry
Anonymous
April 8, 2005 9:42:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

All Things Mopar wrote:
> Sid9 commented courteously...
>
>> The problem is that Bush,Jr is *NOT* doing what you
>> think he's doing. He's running a scam by not telling
>> what his plan is. He has, by screwing up government
>> finances, put every American's life and well being at
>> risk.
>
> Sid, I've been voting in presidential elections since I
> reached the age of majority in 1968. I have to say that
> not *once* was I able to vote for the candidate I thought
> was "best". I always have wound up voting for the one I
> thought was least "bad".
>
> I consider myself a political "centrist". i.e., I take
> some things out of the Democratic platforms and some
> things out of the Republican platforms. That works OK, I
> guess, except that when I step into a voting booth to vote
> for president, senator, or representative, I'm still left
> with the same damn problem: which one is the age-old
> lesser-of-two-evils?
>
> I'm not posting this to defend W but only to comment that
> in my experience there hasn't been a president since 1968
> that I thought told the truth all the time, or even the
> majority of the time, regardless of party affiliation
> (maybe there never has been a truthful president and/or
> one that kept their campaign promises!).

Americans will not vote for a candidate who speaks the truth.
The bigger the lie the more attractive the candidate is.
That's how Bush,Jr, "No nation building" got in
Anonymous
April 8, 2005 9:42:10 PM

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Sid9 commented courteously...

> Americans will not vote for a candidate who speaks the
> truth. The bigger the lie the more attractive the
> candidate is. That's how Bush,Jr, "No nation building"
> got in

Don't know if that's how W got elected, but I'm curious as
to how you think voters figure out who's telling the truth
and who isn't.

The American electorate to a significant degree can't even
tell you what the two presidential candidates stand for or
are against, so I suspect they can't tell who's telling
the truth or lying through his teeth.

For a Kerry example, recall that he quickly backed off on
his pledge to raise CAFE after he figured out he'd lose
Michigan and some other states. But if you looked at his
platform posted to his website, there it was. Was that a
lie or an oversight or an example of why he lost (to your
point).

For my money, I've always been a believer that the first
priority for a politician is to get elected, his second
priority is to get elected, and his third priority is to
get elected. It's pretty hard to do that and be truthful
at the same time...

--
ATM, aka Jerry
Anonymous
April 9, 2005 1:16:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <m30b51llomjt1v3a8amj0guvlsneo5bdkv@4ax.com>,
charlie_wolf@noemail.com (Charlie Wolf) wrote:

> >I am quite sure my government is corrupt. I am an American.
> Then leave.
Do you have any idea how dumb that response is?

Iain
Anonymous
April 9, 2005 1:17:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Iain Laskey wrote:
> In article <m30b51llomjt1v3a8amj0guvlsneo5bdkv@4ax.com>,
> charlie_wolf@noemail.com (Charlie Wolf) wrote:
>
>
>>>I am quite sure my government is corrupt. I am an American.
>>
>>Then leave.
>
> Do you have any idea how dumb that response is?
>
> Iain

Why is it dumb. I wouldn't live in a country if I thought it was half
as bad as you seem to think the US is. Surely there are other places
where you would feel more comfortable. Or is it a matter of being quite
settled and secure financially here, and that is why you don't want to
leave? I know this has been the case in other cases I have known about
in the past.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
April 9, 2005 7:02:08 AM

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On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 16:48:45 -0500, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net>
wrote:

>Sid9 wrote:
>> Ron Hunter wrote:
snipped...
>One wouldn't know it by his choice of ways to express himself.
Ron - anyone ever tell you that you're sorta full of yourself???
Regards,
Anonymous
April 9, 2005 2:16:04 PM

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On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 17:03:12 -0500, All Things Mopar
<usenetMATP123@comcast.net> wrote:

>For my money, I've always been a believer that the first
>priority for a politician is to get elected, his second
>priority is to get elected, and his third priority is to
>get elected. It's pretty hard to do that and be truthful
>at the same time...

I've always thought his second priority was to get re-elected.

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
Anonymous
April 9, 2005 2:17:42 PM

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On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 17:44:08 -0400, "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>Keep dreaming.
>Greenspan was questioning how to handle the surplus and what to do to
>prevent liquidating the national debt.
>Then came Bush,Jr

No, then came the bursting of the DOT.COM bubble.
This happened before Bush was elected.

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
Anonymous
April 9, 2005 7:35:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.military,us.military.army,soc.veterans,alt.politics,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Big Bill wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 17:44:08 -0400, "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>> Keep dreaming.
>> Greenspan was questioning how to handle the surplus and what to do to
>> prevent liquidating the national debt.
>> Then came Bush,Jr
>
> No, then came the bursting of the DOT.COM bubble.
> This happened before Bush was elected.

Which is irrelevant to Bush,Jr's mismanagement.
Anonymous
April 9, 2005 8:49:14 PM

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Big Bill wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 17:44:08 -0400, "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Keep dreaming.
>>Greenspan was questioning how to handle the surplus and what to do to
>>prevent liquidating the national debt.
>>Then came Bush,Jr
>
>
> No, then came the bursting of the DOT.COM bubble.
> This happened before Bush was elected.
>

Bingo. and please do not forget Mzzz Reno and her forey into the
dot.com area. Actually I had thought the dot.coms were way over valued
for over three years and had to balance out soon. Seems a lot of money
was just on paper. Then someone set fire to it all. Whish. But I am
still happy blame Willie.

Ed
USA Ret
Anonymous
April 9, 2005 11:26:59 PM

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Charlie Wolf wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 16:48:45 -0500, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Sid9 wrote:
>>
>>>Ron Hunter wrote:
>
> snipped...
>
>>One wouldn't know it by his choice of ways to express himself.
>
> Ron - anyone ever tell you that you're sorta full of yourself???
> Regards,
>
>
Yes, and it's quite true, but at least I am polite, and don't use foul
language as a crutch for being unable to adequately express myself.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
April 10, 2005 3:12:29 PM

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On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:35:05 -0400, "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>Big Bill wrote:
>> On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 17:44:08 -0400, "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Keep dreaming.
>>> Greenspan was questioning how to handle the surplus and what to do to
>>> prevent liquidating the national debt.
>>> Then came Bush,Jr
>>
>> No, then came the bursting of the DOT.COM bubble.
>> This happened before Bush was elected.
>
>Which is irrelevant to Bush,Jr's mismanagement.
>
I see,
No matter how many lies are disproved, Bush is still wrong.

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
!