What 6950 to get?

[theswerdy]

I have decided on getting a 2gb 6950 for my new build and I will get another to crossfire when bf3 comes out.
I am really confused on all the different kinds of 6950 cards out there.
I've heard things about "reference cards" which I think mean they are from ATI directly and not from sapphire, asus, msi, etc.
I also want to be able to flash the 6950 to a 6970 but I read that you can only do that on some models?

So please share with me what the best 6950's are, thanks!

Edit: I'm going to be using eyefinity with at least two screens if that matters.
Also I think I'm going to be using a cooler master haf 932 if that matters with the cooling of the cards. case here

 

[theswerdy]

Someone must be able to help me?
I thought the 6950 was a pretty popular gpu...

 

[bystander]

There was another post about this yesterday. You may be able to find it.

My recommendation is the MSI r6950 twin frozr III PE. Use these directions to unlock the shaders and OCing abilities for this card only: http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/msi_r6950_twin_froz_iii_power_edition_unlocking,1.html

For all other 6950's, use these directions: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/316974-33-radeon-6950-shader-unlock-instructions#t2368661

Be aware that the card companies have been adding ways to stop this practice, so the odds are getting smaller by the day.

 

[bystander]

One other thing you might consider is the Twin frozr II: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127562

The reason is the Twin Frozr II's are likely to be older cards with less change with unlocking prevention technology. The MSI r6950 Twin Frozr II/OC can also use the bios I linked for the twin frozr III Power edition as I've done this with mine and it worked great.

 

[theswerdy]

One other thing you might consider is the Twin frozr II: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127562

The reason is the Twin Frozr II's are likely to be older cards with less change with unlocking prevention technology. The MSI r6950 Twin Frozr II/OC can also use the bios I linked for the twin frozr III Power edition as I've done this with mine and it worked great.

okay thanks I'm reading up on it now.
does the "r" in MSI R6950 Twin Frozr II OC indicate it is a reference board? meaning it can be unlocked to 6970?

 

[bystander]

No.

Forget about unlocking any card to a 6970. That method was a bit unpredictable and often resulted in damaging the card. Unlocking the shaders and overclocking them to 6970 levels is safer and gives you the same performance. Finding a reference card today is pretty much not possible. Even when they show you one in the pictures online, they send you something else.

 

[theswerdy]

No.

Forget about unlocking any card to a 6970. That method was a bit unpredictable and often resulted in damaging the card. Unlocking the shaders and overclocking them to 6970 levels is safer and gives you the same performance. Finding a reference card today is pretty much not possible. Even when they show you one in the pictures online, they send you something else.

okay? I think I understand what your saying.
So if I follow the msi guide to unlocking you showed and I'll be fine correct?
on that same note...the guide confused the heck out of me. whats with windows 98 in the last slide!?

 

[bystander]

The last part, you will boot to a USB drive, and they must have used an old boot disk with windows 98. It's not important other than the fact that you do in fact make a USB boot drive.

 

[chillin15]

Best 6950 cards in terms of ability to OC, noise, cooling

1. Asus Direct cu ii 2gb (a 3 slot card)
2. MSI Twin Frozr II 2gb
3. Sapphire 2gb dirt 3 edition
4. MSI Twin Frozr III 2gb PE/OC

 

[theswerdy]

Best 6950 cards in terms of ability to OC, noise, cooling

1. Asus Direct cu ii 2gb (a 3 slot card)
2. MSI Twin Frozr II 2gb
3. Sapphire 2gb dirt 3 edition
4. MSI Twin Frozr III 2gb PE/OC

I'm leaning towards the sapphire right now...
why do you have the twin frozr II rated higher than the III? doesn't the III has a clock speed 40mhz higher?

 

[bystander]

It's likely the only reason the MSI twin frozr III PE/OC is noisier or hotter is due to it having the highest OC out of the box. The main reason I'd go with 2 or 4 of that list is it's a lot easier to overclock with the special bios I listed above. The 2nd one on that list is most likely to be unlockable, the sapphire is pretty much guaranteed not to unlock based on reports I've seen.

The reason having the limits of OCing removed from the card helps OCing, is that you can use Overdrive, rather than Afterburner. The big advantage to using overdrive is that you can also adjust PowerTune, which can prevent throttling while you overclock to high levels.

 

[chillin15]

I'm leaning towards the sapphire right now...
why do you have the twin frozr II rated higher than the III? doesn't the III has a clock speed 40mhz higher?

The III runs hot and is noisier than the II. With that being said, it's still better than the reference by leaps and bounds.

My list is with the following priorities in mind:

cooling, noise, performance <--in that order.

 

[chillin15]

I don't suggest unlocking to a 6970, you can get more performance by OC'ing the card. A better cooler allows you to OC more too.

The risk involved with unlocking is not worth the performance increase you get.

 

[bystander]

I don't suggest unlocking to a 6970, you can get more performance by OC'ing the card. A better cooler allows you to OC more too.

The risk involved with unlocking is not worth the performance increase you get.

Is it that no one reads, or is it that unknown, but I was not talking about unlocking to a 6970. I was talking about unlocking the shaders. In the case of the MSI twin frozr II or III, to use a specially designed BIOS written by MSI themselves that unlocks the shaders and removes OCing limits, but not changing anything else. Please read, this is the 3rd time I've mentioned this and you still see it as flashing it to a 6970: http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/msi_r6950_twin_froz_iii_power_edition_unlocking,1.html

He also mentioned he wanted to unlock the shaders, which is why I mentioned these 2 cards.

 

[chillin15]

My response was to him, not you lol. I did read your suggestion. He originally did talk about unlocking to a 6970...I just wanted to support your statement.

 

[bystander]

My response was to him, not you lol. I did read your suggestion. He originally did talk about unlocking to a 6970...I just wanted to support your statement.

Gotcha, sorry if I came off as rude. Every time I write about this, there are several people that come in talking how you can't flash non reference cards to a 6970, and show directions on how to unlock the cards in a way that won't work for the card they have. There is a lot of confusion on the subject.

 

[theswerdy]

Gotcha, sorry if I came off as rude. Every time I write about this, there are several people that come in talking how you can't flash non reference cards to a 6970, and show directions on how to unlock the cards in a way that won't work for the card they have. There is a lot of confusion on the subject.

I'm not going to be flashing a 6950 with a 6970 bios thanks letting me know how that would be a bad idea, I appreciate it.
Just so I know I understand let me know if what I'm saying makes sense...
The twin frozr cards from msi can be flashed with a bios from msi that will unlock the OC limit and up the shader amounts, making it able to perform like a 6970 or higher but keeping everything the same except the clock speed and shaders.
The sapphire card can't be unlocked so the shader counts stay the same and overclocking has a limit, correct?

 

[bystander]

I'm not going to be flashing a 6950 with a 6970 bios thanks letting me know how that would be a bad idea, I appreciate it.
Just so I know I understand let me know if what I'm saying makes sense...
The twin frozr cards from msi can be flashed with a bios from msi that will unlock the OC limit and up the shader amounts, making it able to perform like a 6970 or higher but keeping everything the same except the clock speed and shaders.
The sapphire card can't be unlocked so the shader counts stay the same and overclocking has a limit, correct?

That sound correct. I'm basing the Sapphire experience by users on the forum who have come to mention that their Sapphires they more recently purchased will not unlock. The MSI twin frozr cards may also fail to unlock the shaders, which is why I thought you may attempt the twin frozr II for a higher chance of getting one that unlocks the shaders. Since it's an older model, it's more likely to have not been changed. (Mine worked.)

 

[theswerdy]

That sound correct. I'm basing the Sapphire experience by users on the forum who have come to mention that their Sapphires they more recently purchased will not unlock. The MSI twin frozr cards may also fail to unlock the shaders, which is why I thought you may attempt the twin frozr II for a higher chance of getting one that unlocks the shaders. Since it's an older model, it's more likely to have not been changed. (Mine worked.)

okay one more question then.
What card out of the three, sapphire frozr III and II, would be best if you take unlocking the shaders out of consideration?
the frozr III must be better than the II performance wise but where does the sapphire fit in there?

 

[chillin15]

Pure performance: MSI twin frozr III, II, sapphire
Noise, cooling, oc ability: frozr II with sapphire close behind if not equal, then frozr III

You can't go wrong with any of those cards though.

 

[theswerdy]

Pure performance: MSI twin frozr III, II, sapphire
Noise, cooling, oc ability: frozr II with sapphire close behind if not equal, then frozr III

You can't go wrong with any of those cards though.

And they are all good to crossfire later on?

 

[Mousemonkey]

Someone must be able to help me?
I thought the 6950 was a pretty popular gpu...

Bumping your thread is really not a good idea.

 

[bystander]

And they are all good to crossfire later on?

I'll tell you my experience with overclocking 6950 cards in crossfire. As single cards, they overclock easily using MSI Afterburner. You just unlock the MSI afterburner limits and clock as high as you want as long as the cards can handle it. However, when you start clocking to 6970 clocks and higher, I noticed the cards would throttle under extreme conditions. This is due to PowerTune, a new feature on AMD 6900 series cards. If the cards need more than 250watts of power for what they are doing, the card down clocks until it only needs 250watts, unless you turn up PowerTune, which then allows you to go up to 300watts at max settings. While using MSI afterburner, I could not adjust PowerTune, as Overdrive and Afterburner do not play nice together. Luckly, this problem isn't very common except under extreme conditions, like Metro 2033 benchmark.

I then added a 2nd card. With two cards, MSI afterburner seems to not sync properly with the 6900 series. It seems most the time, it'll only overclock 1 card. After completely removing CCC, and fiddling with it, I eventually could get them both to overclock, but it was quite temperamental. I later learned learned of the MSI Twin Frozr III/OC PE bios. I installed that and then I flashed my XFX reference to a 6970 bios. This then allowed me to overclock them to my desired clocks with CCC and use PowerTune. After that, I only used MSI Afterburner to create a fan profile.

If I could do it all over, I would have gotten two MSI Twin Frozr II's. Although, now that I'm doing 3D, I would have just gotten 560 ti's instead.

 

[chillin15]

And they are all good to crossfire later on?

All 6950 AMD cards are able to crossfire with each other regardless of manufacturer although for best results, you should buy the same card to cf.