Possible PC Upgrade?

[evanc2]

Hey guys...

I've always been a big Battlefield series fan and I thought I'd try ordering the new Battlefield 3 for my XBOX in hopes that it would be still enjoyable. I just downloaded and played the Battlefield 3 beta for the XBOX, but after only a few minutes I realize that I've made a mistake and will be cancelling my order for the XBOX and reordering it for the PC. The controls just feel terrible.

I built a rig a couple years ago or so, but I want to make sure that it's beefy enough to play the game. I'm not looking for out of this world graphics and to have everything turned to the max, but I would still like to be able to enjoy the game with it looking decent on my 22" monitor. I have not, and have no plans on overclocking my system either.

Some basic parts of my current rig are:

- GIGABYTE GV-R487D5-1GD Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5
- AMD Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma 2.7GHz Socket AM2+ 95W Dual-Core black edition
- GIGABYTE GA-MA74GM-S2 AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 740G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
- CORSAIR DOMINATOR 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel

This is all running on Vista 64bit. My power supply is strong enough to handle some beefier parts if needed.

What do you guys think? Will this work or do I need to upgrade some things? If so, what would you suggest I change and what to?

Thanks so much.
Evan

 

[stuuz]

I just upgraded from a 1GB 4870 to a 1GB 6870 with plans of crossfire in a month or so.

I am hitting 60+ fps on max settings in BF3 Beta. But the rest of my system is a little higher end than yours, and I don't really have any experience of AMD X2's.

I think you may run it, but it will need low settings to play. Best thing would be to download the beta test, and see how it performs, then come back if you want to upgrade with a budget in mind.

 

[coffeecoffee]

Your rig is decent. I wouldn't really recommend upgrading anything besides getting Windows 7, and everything else seems to be quite solid. The 4870 is about a hair faster than a 5770; a modern mid-range card that can easily hold it's own. I'm sure you can have play BF3 at decent settings with your current hardware on a 22" monitor. However, you should run the beta to know where you currently stand in terms of performance.

Recommended system requirements for Battlefield 3 [Source via link below]
http://bf3blog.com/battlefield-3-system-requirements/

OS: Windows 7 64-bit
Processor: Quad-core Intel or AMD CPU
RAM: 4GB
Graphics card: DirectX 11 Nvidia or AMD ATI card, GeForce GTX 460, Radeon Radeon HD 6850
Graphics card memory: 1 GB
Hard drive: 15 GB for disc version or 10 GB for digital version


While this IS a system requirement estimate, I doubt it would change drastically by the time EA releases BF3.
You'll definitely want to get a copy of windows 7 [preferably 64 bit] to replace Windows Vista simply because it's a horrible OS for gaming.... Vista gave me nightmares!!! [not really but... moving on!]

Depending on how far you want to go to have a more enjoyable BF3 experience, I would recommend a AMD Phenom II x4 955 BE 3.2GHZ [only $100 USD]. As for your graphics card, I would recommend a ATI 6870 [about $180-$200] - this upgrade is somewhat linear but you will gain a solid chunk of performance [about 30-40%]. Assuming you get the CPU AND GPU, you'll only run 25-35 more Watts which kills the need to get a new PSU. Hope this helps!

~Coffee

 

[pro-gamer]

what, you are going to run bf3 on dual-core cpu this is impossible you must have an quad core cpu like 965 BE or 2500k and you also stated that i want to run it on max setup then go for 2500k and a decent gpu like gtx 560 ti or hd 6870.

 

[pro-gamer]

what, you are going to run bf3 on dual-core cpu this is impossible you must have an quad core cpu like 965 BE or 2500k and you also stated that i want to run it on max setup then go for 2500k and a decent gpu like gtx 560 ti or hd 6870.

In last yes your current specs will handle it on low setting.....

 

[COLGeek]

Please see this news article:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/FPS-Battlefield-Beta-Rush-Mode-Operation-Metro,13475.html

Your rig should be fine as long as you keep the eye candy at reasonable levels.

Good luck!

 

[coffeecoffee]

what, you are going to run bf3 on dual-core cpu this is impossible you must have an quad core cpu like 965 BE or 2500k and you also stated that i want to run it on max setup then go for 2500k and a decent gpu like gtx 560 ti or hd 6870.

What a "pro-gamer"!!! ... double posts AND fails to read the original post "I'm NOT looking for out of this world graphics and to have everything turned to the max,"
I rest my case =)

~Coffee

 

[evanc2]

Good information, thanks everyone.

I don't need to hit 60 FPS to make me happy. Just enough to have the game be enjoyable without it being choppy. I'm not a hardcore gamer, but I like to play a few hours a week to help me unwind after a day at work. I wasn't aware the beta was out on the PC, I'll give that a try tonight. Thanks.

The video card and CPU were things I was figuring I'd need to upgrade.... and those prices were what I was figuring (although cheaper is always better). You say that the changes would be linear - what do you mean by that? I am assuming that the 30%-40% would be significantly noticeable though...

Although Vista 64bit gives me some issues from time to time, I've managed to get along with it pretty good so far. Is upgrading that to Windows 7 really that much of an improvement?


Finally, pardon my stupidity here, but when I originally built this quad cores were still fairly new. I was told (again, I'm no expert here) that for gaming, quad core doesn't really provide a huge improvement. Has that changed, or was I told wrong?

Thanks again...

 

[coffeecoffee]

When upgrading, you should always try to get about 70% or more performance [with GPUs] as a basic rule of thumb - or else it's called a "linear" upgrade because while you have gain some performance, it's still some-what insignificant. This makes sense if you think about it - your 4870 was about $200 when you bought it - a 6870 is about $200 but your only getting 30-40% more performance. Not very cost effective.....
Just realized how bad I am at explaining PC hardware jargons !!! >_> *quickly gets some coffee and gulps it down to relax*

~Coffee

PS: I said "some-what linear"
PSS: Not sharing my coffee..... ever!

 

[evanc2]

That makes perfect sense actually. Thank you. Is there a huge price increase to go up to the next level to get closer to that 70%?

In my current setup - what is the bottleneck? Is it the CPU or GPU? Would it be better to sink more cash into one or the other to make the system run more smoothly?

 

[COLGeek]

Your CPU and the motherboard chipset (740) are the most limiting aspects of your current rig. The HD4870 is actually a fairly capable GPU.

You could bump to a faster x3 or x4 Phenom II and that would help somewhat. However, even that sort of an upgrade isn't going to result in massive gains in performance.

 

[coffeecoffee]

That makes perfect sense actually. Thank you. Is there a huge price increase to go up to the next level to get closer to that 70%?

In my current setup - what is the bottleneck? Is it the CPU or GPU? Would it be better to sink more cash into one or the other to make the system run more smoothly?

Ah, you were NOT told wrong that quad-cores were not very... helpful in gaming because.... *drum roll* as you've said, Quad-Cores were still fairly new when you build your PC. Quad-Cores were still in their infant-stages back then and few companies/developers had the time nor resources to code their games to take advantage of all cores. Even if they did, these drastic changes don't happen over night... but it's been a few years since all that... this gave plenty of time for a lot of newer titles to adopt multi-core support =)

Personally, I wouldn't sink any more investment beyond a Phenom II x4 955 CPU for gaming due to diminishing returns. A modern classic example is with the Intel i5-2500k vs i7-2600k. The exception is if you ALSO run a lot of multi-threaded applications but.. even then.... it would depend on the apps you run. CPUs aside... to get closer to the 70% mark, you'll be looking at a ATI 6950 2GB which is currently about $270-285 USD which imo a better investment than the 6870... but again... it's a pretty pricey upgrade. The Phenom II x4 955 is $100 + 6950 2GB @ about $280, that's roughly a $400 investment. If I were you, I would DEFINITELY grab a copy of windows 7 and the Phenom II x4 955 BE and see how well BF3 runs. The CPU upgrade alone will influence more than just gaming performance - a lot of daily apps would benefit quite significantly which translates to faster over-all loading times, response times, etc.

~Coffee

Edit: Assuming your 4870 performs well in BF3 with the new Phenom II x4 955 BE CPU AND Windows 7. I would recommend waiting until at least Black Firday/Boxing Day before buying a new graphics card. This is because AMD has their APU Bulldozer and 7xxx series lined up for Q4 of this year - their very release and availability will cause other cards to drop in price.

 

[evanc2]

That would help on cost standpoint if I simply swap out the CPU instead of replacing that AND the GPU. But, if I am not getting massive gains in performance, will it be noticeable in the game?

Again, please pardon my lack of intelligence in this area. I can physically put the PC together and troubleshoot minor details, but the hardware upgrades and details of the hardware are by no means something I am knowledgeable in. I can't thank all of you enough for your help here.

 

[assassin123]

go for 2500k with a gtx 560 ti and later you can sli then check bf3 i swear your fps is 40 to 60

 

[evanc2]

Ah, you were NOT told wrong that quad-cores were not very... helpful in gaming because.... *drum roll* as you've said, Quad-Cores were still fairly new when you build your PC. Quad-Cores were still in their infant-stages back then and few companies/developers had the time nor resources to code their games to take advantage of all cores. Even if they did, these drastic changes don't happen over night... but it's been a few years since all that... this gave plenty of time for a lot of newer titles to adopt multi-core support =)

Personally, I wouldn't sink any more investment beyond a Phenom II x4 955 CPU for gaming due to diminishing returns. A modern classic example is with the Intel i5-2500k vs i7-2600k. The exception is if you ALSO run a lot of multi-threaded applications but.. even then.... it would depend on the apps you run. CPUs aside... to get closer to the 70% mark, you'll be looking at a ATI 6950 2GB which is currently about $270-285 USD which imo a better investment than the 6870... but again... it's a pretty pricey upgrade. The Phenom II x4 955 is $100 + 6950 2GB @ about $280, that's roughly a $400 investment. If I were you, I would DEFINITELY grab a copy of windows 7 and the Phenom II x4 955 BE and see how well BF3 runs. The CPU upgrade alone will influence more than just gaming performance - a lot of daily apps would benefit quite significantly which translates to faster over-all loading times, response times, etc.

~Coffee

Edit: Assuming your 4870 performs well in BF3 with the new Phenom II x4 955 BE CPU AND Windows 7. I would recommend waiting until at least Black Firday/Boxing Day before buying a new graphics card. This is because AMD has their APU Bulldozer and 7xxx series lined up for Q4 of this year - their very release and availability will cause other cards to drop in price.

Is Windows 7 really going to provide me with that much of a "performance" upgrade in BF3 to justify the $100. Could that $100 be spent elsewhere and provide more of a performance upgrade?

If I did upgrade to the 6950 2GB, and the X4 955, I'm assuming I'd be set for some time for upcoming games - which would be nice. Another member mentioned my motherboard being dated. Would that cause issues or be a bottleneck in my setup? The reason I ask is that if I am going to need to upgrade that the near future, would it be best to upgrade that before I spend all this money on a new CPU to make sure that they are compatible? Would a newer motherboard also provide me with more options for CPUs and allow me to get "more for my money"?

Thanks again - you've been a huge help.

 

[coffeecoffee]

That would help on cost standpoint if I simply swap out the CPU instead of replacing that AND the GPU. But, if I am not getting massive gains in performance, will it be noticeable in the game?

My currently dilemma is not knowing how well your 4870 will perform in BF3 with the Phenom II x4 CPU on Windows 7. If you can get playable and acceptable frame-rates on your 4870, it would be better to hold out a few months and buy the 6950 2GB on sale at about $200. It's much more economical that way, no sense in buying something you may not need.... which is why.. you should... go to the store and buy the CPU and OS right away

Again, please pardon my lack of intelligence in this area. I can physically put the PC together and troubleshoot minor details, but the hardware upgrades and details of the hardware are by no means something I am knowledgeable in. I can't thank all of you enough for your help here.

No need for pardons here, I'm here to help those who ask for it =)

Is Windows 7 really going to provide me with that much of a "performance" upgrade in BF3 to justify the $100. Could that $100 be spent elsewhere and provide more of a performance upgrade?

The CPU's performance in BF3 alone will be minimal but it's the overall performance gain we're looking at here..... which is very significant; especially in daily activities.

If I did upgrade to the 6950 2GB, and the X4 955, I'm assuming I'd be set for some time for upcoming games - which would be nice. Another member mentioned my motherboard being dated. Would that cause issues or be a bottleneck in my setup? The reason I ask is that if I am going to need to upgrade that the near future, would it be best to upgrade that before I spend all this money on a new CPU to make sure that they are compatible? Would a newer motherboard also provide me with more options for CPUs and allow me to get "more for my money"?

Yes, you would be set for quite some time, however no point in buying the 6950 until you know if you need it or not.

Regarding your motherboard and RAM; they are somewhat outdated but I would not worry about it b/c RAM and Mobo overall has very little impact on game performance.

~Coffee

 

[evanc2]

go for 2500k with a gtx 560 ti and later you can sli then check bf3 i swear your fps is 40 to 60

That would require a motherboard swap as that CPU isn't compatible with mine, right?

 

[evanc2]

My currently dilemma is not knowing how well your 4870 will perform in BF3 with the Phenom II x4 CPU on Windows 7. If you can get playable and acceptable frame-rates on your 4870, it would be better to hold out a few months and buy the 6950 2GB on sale at about $200. It's much more economical that way, no sense in buying something you may not need.... which is why.. you should... go to the store and buy the CPU and OS right away

I'll pick up the CPU tonight. That sounds like a resounding good idea from everyone. I like the idea of waiting on the video card too. Going piece by piece is good, especially for my wallet.

I'm still stuck on Windows 7 though... am I going to see a performance upgrade in the game due to the OS that justifies the $100, or would that money be spent better elsewhere? Vista 64 has done well for me over the past couple years... although many don't feel the same way I do about - I have no issues with it.

 

[pro-gamer]

yes then find out z68 vpro

 

[COLGeek]

That would require a motherboard swap as that CPU isn't compatible with mine, right?

Right. This is a completely different system path.

Back to your situation, going with the 955BE or 965BE will provide a good jump in performance. Going to Win 7 is not necessary, but is recommended later (in other words, not essential now).

Try BF3 with the 4870. If you want a beefier GPU later, then look at the 6950 (or higher) as previously recommended by others.

Good luck!

 

[coffeecoffee]

I'll pick up the CPU tonight. That sounds like a resounding good idea from everyone. I like the idea of waiting on the video card too. Going piece by piece is good, especially for my wallet.

I'm still stuck on Windows 7 though... am I going to see a performance upgrade in the game due to the OS that justifies the $100, or would that money be spent better elsewhere? Vista 64 has done well for me over the past couple years... although many don't feel the same way I do about - I have no issues with it.

First, check my previous post... noticed you already posted when I finished editing.. =.=;;

anyways, as far as windows Vista is concerned... it's 50/50.... 50% preference and 50% inefficiency. In other words Windows Vista is a resource sucking black-hole.... *nods* while Windows 7 is a much more elegant solution. Windows 7 was built from scratch FOR efficiency, simplicity and most IMPORTANTLY! GAMES!! DD

~Coffee

 

[evanc2]

I just ordered the 965BE (same price as the 955). I'll hook it up this weekend and pray for the best. Thanks again to everyone - you guys are great.

 

[COLGeek]

I just ordered the 965BE (same price as the 955). I'll hook it up this weekend and pray for the best. Thanks again to everyone - you guys are great.

Good luck! May the Force be with you.

 

[coffeecoffee]

I just ordered the 965BE (same price as the 955). I'll hook it up this weekend and pray for the best. Thanks again to everyone - you guys are great.

Your welcome. Send me a PM if you need help again, I log on about once a day. Btw, if you need a good CPU cooler, check out the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus. It's economical and has a near legendary track record.

~Coffee

 

[aaronstyle]

That would require a motherboard swap as that CPU isn't compatible with mine, right?

Yes it would, however, if you grab a newer motherboard, and that 955 phenom ii BE, you'll want a better HSF, imo. They run kind of warm, even out of the box. However, if you get a capable HSF, then you'll be able to oc. I've been tweaking mine, and I've come near 4.0 ghz.


If you grab a new mobo, you'll have room to run Crossfire, which will extend the life of your rig. Providing you have a power supply that's capable to run Crossfie.


For ~300 USD you can get a 955 BE and a solid motherboard.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103808
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131646

You could grab a cooler master hyper 212, which is an effective cooling solution, for very cheap. (some say works as well as corsair liquid cooling)

My temps at 3.9 ghz don't go above 43 C Ambient temps are around 68 F (don't know conversions, but it's usually a little colder than I'm comfortable with, in here)

I've got both of these, and for performance vs price, its well worth it to me.

Plays StarCraft II on ultra settings, with great frame rates, with exceptions for large battles.
Borderlands maxed out at 60+ fps
Fallout NV plays well maxed out. (haven't tried to fraps it, yet)


Not sure how different our cards perform, but your card is still fairly capable, I'm sure.


OR, if you just want a graphics card update, grab a GTX 560 TI.



I'm not good with bottlenecks, but I can see your cpu and motherboard holding you back, for the fact that Dual Cores don't keep up very well anymore, unless it's and intel core I3 or I5 (idk if they make Dual Core I5, I don't pay attention to Intel, because they're out of my price range, until I get rich.)