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Keto the Bard

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Anonymous
November 20, 2004 2:27:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

RCV: A couple of questions and Comments for Jason....

Her Pick Pocket skill seems to be way low... at 11th lvl she has 75%.
As a straight Bard I thought she would get 10% per lvl past 1st and 30
pounts at 1st lvl. With 10 level ups she should have 100% plus her starting
total, no?

Her Bard song seems to turn off at the oddest [and most inconvenient
times]. I play with AI off and it isn't that she is readying a weapon
because when I go back to her to turn it on, she isn't attacking anyone, she
is just ... not singing?

During her initial banter when you meet her, she mentions being "full
confidence", from the context it seems she should say "full __of__
confidence", unless this is some archaism you are expressing. I ran through
the scene twice to make sure I read it right...

Why is her wisdom so low for a Bard? Even Garrick, MUCH less wordly,
sophisticated or experienced than her has a 10 Wis. [I've never understood
why NPC Bards seem to have such low wisdom scores - Eldoth, wordly beyond
belief, skilled with poem and song, with a 13 wisdom??? I mean heavens, you
don't pen a song or tell a story with your Int stat, after all.... odd.]

I like her. I like Bards in general so she gets a boost there, but what
little of her I have seen I like. The conversations are interesting and
engaging and her interjections are entertaining. I like that she doesn't
have g-dly stats [with the caveat about her Wis which I think could be
raised to 10 at least, surely she is as wise as Garrick?] and someone
starting off with only non-enchanted weapons is refreshing.

I imagine one will find out, in time, what the pan pipes do, and I
suspect her wine just gets her drunk.... but time will answer those
questions I imagine. She seemed to enjoy the Baalor's Ale we lifted from
the Shadow Thief Guild..... :-)

Very entertaining and I suspect even better is yet to come. Thanks for
the work you put into these things.

Rich

More about : keto bard

Anonymous
November 20, 2004 8:44:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

Rich C. Velay <RCVelay@remove.this.shaw.ca> wrote:

: Her Pick Pocket skill seems to be way low... at 11th lvl she has 75%.
: As a straight Bard I thought she would get 10% per lvl past 1st and 30
: pounts at 1st lvl. With 10 level ups she should have 100% plus her starting
: total, no?

I can check into that. Not sure off the top of my head. Blue was the real
bard expert, Bons and I mere pretenders, so we don't have all the stats
memorized. :) 

: Her Bard song seems to turn off at the oddest [and most inconvenient
: times]. I play with AI off and it isn't that she is readying a weapon
: because when I go back to her to turn it on, she isn't attacking anyone, she
: is just ... not singing?

Hmmm. It's possible that she's trying to trigger another script-driven
event like a banter. I can look into it in more depth if it seems to be a
constant problem.

: During her initial banter when you meet her, she mentions being "full
: confidence", from the context it seems she should say "full __of__
: confidence", unless this is some archaism you are expressing. I ran through
: the scene twice to make sure I read it right...

It's just part of Keto's speech pattern. She often leaves out small
words, particularly but not exclusively at the beginning of a sentence.

: Why is her wisdom so low for a Bard? Even Garrick, MUCH less wordly,
: sophisticated or experienced than her has a 10 Wis. [I've never understood
: why NPC Bards seem to have such low wisdom scores - Eldoth, wordly beyond
: belief, skilled with poem and song, with a 13 wisdom??? I mean heavens, you
: don't pen a song or tell a story with your Int stat, after all.... odd.]

How well have you gotten to know her thus far? As she tells you more about
her history, and wakes up with a headache once or twice, you might see
where we're coming from. :) 

: I imagine one will find out, in time, what the pan pipes do, and I
: suspect her wine just gets her drunk.... but time will answer those
: questions I imagine. She seemed to enjoy the Baalor's Ale we lifted from
: the Shadow Thief Guild..... :-)

Actually, you can have her drink from that bottle all day and nothing
untoward will happen (something we might look into at a future date...
but when a mod is two years overdue, sometimes you'll leave out the
Intoxification effect just to get ON with it!), and the pipes don't do
anything but take up space for "flavor" (Although you'll hear her play a
quick riff from time to time as her action-confirm sound.)

: Very entertaining and I suspect even better is yet to come. Thanks for
: the work you put into these things.

Thanks for playing and reporting!

--
Jason Compton jcompton@xnet.com
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 9:28:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

"Jason Compton" <jcompton@typhoon.xnet.com> wrote in message
news:cnmlj8$rj2$1@new7.xnet.com...
> Rich C. Velay <RCVelay@remove.this.shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> : Her Pick Pocket skill seems to be way low... at 11th lvl she has
75%.
> : As a straight Bard I thought she would get 10% per lvl past 1st and 30
> : pounts at 1st lvl. With 10 level ups she should have 100% plus her
starting
> : total, no?
>
> I can check into that. Not sure off the top of my head. Blue was the real
> bard expert, Bons and I mere pretenders, so we don't have all the stats
> memorized. :) 

RCV: Well I've been playing Bards since before TotSC came out, and she
is definately too whimpy here. PP seems to be a problem for others as well,
H'D's PP skill is screwed up when you first find him as well and isn't fixed
[sort of] until you level him up. But leveling up Keto just added what she
should get from the level up, it didn't fix what she was missing.

> : Her Bard song seems to turn off at the oddest [and most inconvenient
> : times]. I play with AI off and it isn't that she is readying a weapon
> : because when I go back to her to turn it on, she isn't attacking anyone,
she
> : is just ... not singing?
>
> Hmmm. It's possible that she's trying to trigger another script-driven
> event like a banter. I can look into it in more depth if it seems to be a
> constant problem.

RCV: I'll let you know.

>
> : During her initial banter when you meet her, she mentions being
"full
> : confidence", from the context it seems she should say "full __of__
> : confidence", unless this is some archaism you are expressing. I ran
through
> : the scene twice to make sure I read it right...
>
> It's just part of Keto's speech pattern. She often leaves out small
> words, particularly but not exclusively at the beginning of a sentence.

RCV: OK, >not< a typo. :-)

> : Why is her wisdom so low for a Bard? Even Garrick, MUCH less
wordly,
> : sophisticated or experienced than her has a 10 Wis. [I've never
understood
> : why NPC Bards seem to have such low wisdom scores - Eldoth, wordly
beyond
> : belief, skilled with poem and song, with a 13 wisdom??? I mean heavens,
you
> : don't pen a song or tell a story with your Int stat, after all.... odd.]
>
> How well have you gotten to know her thus far? As she tells you more about
> her history, and wakes up with a headache once or twice, you might see
> where we're coming from. :) 

RCV: Yes I saw the bit about her losing her memory and all. It may just
be my "take" on what the stats mean. Int is nmemonic ability and "learning"
and by my way of thinking Int is what gets "drained" by memory loss and
other organic brain damage/disorders. Wisdom on the other hand models more
intangible, more sub-conscious types of learning, i.e. experience. When
someone loses ther memory, they lose events, very rarely do they lose
skills. In cases of organic brain disorders, say a stroke for example,
where someone loses the ability to write, they can still create poetry, and
if they were skilled at it, they still will be, even though they can't write
it down. Even with alcohol related disorders its the thinking part of the
brain that is degraded, more often than not [in AD&D terms Int] and not
skills/talents or other innate abilities.
So.... by my way of thinking, if someone loses their memory, that should
affect the Int stat, and not the Wis stat. If Keto is wise enough to write
stories and songs/poems, then she has more than a 9 Wisdom. [nb. it takes
Int to play an instrument or to learn public speaking, it takes Wis to
create something new, and Chr to combine the two skills effectively.] But I
blather.... lafffs

>
> : I imagine one will find out, in time, what the pan pipes do, and I
> : suspect her wine just gets her drunk.... but time will answer those
> : questions I imagine. She seemed to enjoy the Baalor's Ale we lifted
from
> : the Shadow Thief Guild..... :-)
>
> Actually, you can have her drink from that bottle all day and nothing
> untoward will happen (something we might look into at a future date...
> but when a mod is two years overdue, sometimes you'll leave out the
> Intoxification effect just to get ON with it!), and the pipes don't do
> anything but take up space for "flavor" (Although you'll hear her play a
> quick riff from time to time as her action-confirm sound.)

RCV: OK. Yes as time permits, I think adding in something for both the
bottle and the pipes would be appropriate. Taking up a backpack slot for
flavour is fine, as long as the flavour is appealing. Something that is a
hindrence, with no compensating attributes becomes a bother.
Having the drinking raise her morale, at the expense of other
stats/skills would be good, like sort of a minor Resist Fear spell for her
only, but one that decreases her THAC0 or otherwise has a trade off. Or
perhaps it could improve her song for a short period of time, the "liquid
courage" making her a more rousing speaker, etc. In both cases the bottle
could run dry after x number of uses a day, and then be refilled after
sleeping indoors.

As to her pipes, some minor magical effect from them could be fun and
interesting. Perhaps a charm ability that can be used x number of times a
day, that improves over time [as in who can be affected, how long it lasts,
saves vs. it, etc.] As with the wine though, this should be, IMHO, a minor
ability. [I do so hate nuclear powered attack cats and such]

The point being, she has these items and they could [and perhaps should]
be more than simply dead weight. Anyway, those are just some thoughts off
the top of my head.

re: the speaking, I have already had her interrupt the Baron
Ployer/Jaheira interaction when he confronts her in the bar in the docks.
That was a bit jarring. She [Keto] was rambling on while Jaheira had to
wait to explain to me what just happened to her! I don't know if this is
something that can be prevented, but if so, I think she should NOT initiate
a conversation between Jaheira being cursed, and the mages teleporting out.
>
> : Very entertaining and I suspect even better is yet to come. Thanks
for
> : the work you put into these things.
>
> Thanks for playing and reporting!

RCV: No problem.
You know, one thing I wish could be changed, that I suspect is an engine
issue and not a WieDU issue, is the way long conversation with multiple PC
responses scroll off the bottom of the screen such that you have to scroll
back up to see what the question was. I see this all the time and it is
annoying. Its a shame that there isn't a /p switch that could could keep
the question visible, and THEN you scroll down to choose a response. Not
your fault I know, just a random observation on the engine.

And BTW there was no choice available to let her know what my game name
meant. :-( Surely "Silent Death" should have been one of the response
choices?!? laffs

Was a good conversation none the less.... :-)

Rich
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Anonymous
November 20, 2004 9:42:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

Rich C. Velay wrote:
>
> H'D's PP skill is screwed up when you first find him as well

Check the Blade kit description.
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 10:05:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

"Kish" <Kish_K@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:aHBnd.46566$QJ3.21752@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> Rich C. Velay wrote:
> >
> > H'D's PP skill is screwed up when you first find him as well
>
> Check the Blade kit description.

RCV: I have - that isn't the problem. It's like his lore ability, it
begins much too low and then is increased, by one level up, by a value
greater than can be accounted for by the level up. Like Minsc not having
ANY Priest spells, regardless of the level you find him at, until you level
him up and he gets the new one and the old ones.
I believe there is some mod or fix pack or something that deals with all
of these issues.
And regardless of what the manual says, a PC Blade, whether imported or
newly made, starts with a Bard's worth of PP points, not halved as they
should be. You get half value at level ups, but you begin with the same
skill points as a regular Bard. This bug is mentioned in a number of FAQs
as being another reason to take a Blade vs a regular Bard, i.e. the game
doesn't fully implement one of the kits disadvantages...

Rich
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 10:16:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

"Rich C. Velay" <RCVelay@remove.this.shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:c1Cnd.275414$Pl.79142@pd7tw1no...
>
> "Kish" <Kish_K@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:aHBnd.46566$QJ3.21752@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> > Rich C. Velay wrote:
> > >
> > > H'D's PP skill is screwed up when you first find him as well
> >
> > Check the Blade kit description.

RCV: Just a follow-up on this. I just took a look at the 10th lvl,
161000 xp version of H'D in SK. He has 25 skill points devoted to PP.
As a tenth lvl Blade, he should have 15 points plus 9x 5 points, or 60
points total to start with. So the bug is that he gets less than half of
what he should. 25 points is what a 3d level Blade would have.....

This has confused a lot of people over the years because they look at
his skills when first found and go "Geez, he's worse than Nalia!!" Lafffs.
The miss the fact that he gets a whack of points, much more than he should,
at his next level up.

Anyway, even HE doesn't match the Blade description, and he still
doesn't after you level him up either.

Rich
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 10:50:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

Rich C. Velay <RCVelay@remove.this.shaw.ca> wrote:

: So.... by my way of thinking, if someone loses their memory, that should
: affect the Int stat, and not the Wis stat. If Keto is wise enough to write
: stories and songs/poems, then she has more than a 9 Wisdom. [nb. it takes
: Int to play an instrument or to learn public speaking, it takes Wis to
: create something new, and Chr to combine the two skills effectively.] But I
: blather.... lafffs

I see where you're coming from with this, but where we're coming from is
that Keto may talk a good game but she's still an 18-19 year old girl with
no real direction, would rather talk than work and would rather drink than
talk, and so on. It's not meant to reflect what she can't remember but
rather what she's chosen to do as a result.

: RCV: OK. Yes as time permits, I think adding in something for both the
: bottle and the pipes would be appropriate. Taking up a backpack slot for
: flavour is fine, as long as the flavour is appealing. Something that is a
: hindrence, with no compensating attributes becomes a bother.

One might say that's the epitome of having a bard along! :) 

: re: the speaking, I have already had her interrupt the Baron
: Ployer/Jaheira interaction when he confronts her in the bar in the docks.
: That was a bit jarring. She [Keto] was rambling on while Jaheira had to
: wait to explain to me what just happened to her! I don't know if this is
: something that can be prevented, but if so, I think she should NOT initiate
: a conversation between Jaheira being cursed, and the mages teleporting out.

I think this might be a non-pausing dialogue issue. What, specifically, did
Keto cut in with?

: You know, one thing I wish could be changed, that I suspect is an engine
: issue and not a WieDU issue, is the way long conversation with multiple PC
: responses scroll off the bottom of the screen such that you have to scroll
: back up to see what the question was. I see this all the time and it is
: annoying. Its a shame that there isn't a /p switch that could could keep
: the question visible, and THEN you scroll down to choose a response. Not
: your fault I know, just a random observation on the engine.

Yeah, I know that this is a major annoyance in the flirt packs as well, and
people have suggested groupings and so forth and it comes into play in the
name dialogue as well, but as you observe, we have limited options to deal
with the problem.

: And BTW there was no choice available to let her know what my game name
: meant. :-( Surely "Silent Death" should have been one of the response
: choices?!? laffs

: Was a good conversation none the less.... :-)

It was something Blue felt strongly about trying, but of course, there's
simply no way to account for more than a small sliver of players with that
kind of a dialogue. Even after adding a few names to what she had done I
knew that this was a sacrificial lamb of a concept...

--
Jason Compton jcompton@xnet.com
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 11:36:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

"Jason Compton" <jcompton@typhoon.xnet.com> wrote in message
news:cnmt08$3rd$1@new7.xnet.com...
> Rich C. Velay <RCVelay@remove.this.shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> : So.... by my way of thinking, if someone loses their memory, that
should
> : affect the Int stat, and not the Wis stat. If Keto is wise enough to
write
> : stories and songs/poems, then she has more than a 9 Wisdom. [nb. it
takes
> : Int to play an instrument or to learn public speaking, it takes Wis to
> : create something new, and Chr to combine the two skills effectively.]
But I
> : blather.... lafffs
>
> I see where you're coming from with this, but where we're coming from is
> that Keto may talk a good game but she's still an 18-19 year old girl with
> no real direction, would rather talk than work and would rather drink than
> talk, and so on. It's not meant to reflect what she can't remember but
> rather what she's chosen to do as a result.

RCV: Groovy. Its your character after all. :-) My comments were just
that, comments, not criticism. The common occurance of Bards with low Wis
is just a pet peeve of mine - after all, besides Priests, Bards are the most
wordly, sagacious class in AD&D and many of their skills are associated with
Wis, or at least with what Wisdom is described as being, in the manuals ~
and yet you see so many un-wise Bards. All too often Wis is seen as the
"throw away" stat for Bards wanting high scores in Chr, Dex and often, Str
as well. But again I digress.... ;-)

>
> : RCV: OK. Yes as time permits, I think adding in something for both
the
> : bottle and the pipes would be appropriate. Taking up a backpack slot
for
> : flavour is fine, as long as the flavour is appealing. Something that is
a
> : hindrence, with no compensating attributes becomes a bother.
>
> One might say that's the epitome of having a bard along! :) 

RCV: Hardly! Two things no party should be without: a ring of
regeneration and a Bard, especially since having the latter will ensure you
get the former... ;-) Remember, I am seriously pro-Bard, so no more of
these cheap shots fellah. lafffs

>
> : re: the speaking, I have already had her interrupt the Baron
> : Ployer/Jaheira interaction when he confronts her in the bar in the
docks.
> : That was a bit jarring. She [Keto] was rambling on while Jaheira had to
> : wait to explain to me what just happened to her! I don't know if this
is
> : something that can be prevented, but if so, I think she should NOT
initiate
> : a conversation between Jaheira being cursed, and the mages teleporting
out.
>
> I think this might be a non-pausing dialogue issue. What, specifically,
did
> Keto cut in with?

RCV: Oh geez and I just did it. Hmmm.... It wasn't the one with Minsc
about "courage in a bottle" [which I though was quite a neat coincidence
considering my post] since that was immedately after resting. It may have
been one with Nalia, but I can't recall exactly, sorry. I got three or four
in short order, just before Ployer and then after Ployer and resting to have
her return from the Harpers.


> : You know, one thing I wish could be changed, that I suspect is an
engine
> : issue and not a WieDU issue, is the way long conversation with multiple
PC
> : responses scroll off the bottom of the screen such that you have to
scroll
> : back up to see what the question was. I see this all the time and it is
> : annoying. Its a shame that there isn't a /p switch that could could
keep
> : the question visible, and THEN you scroll down to choose a response.
Not
> : your fault I know, just a random observation on the engine.
>
> Yeah, I know that this is a major annoyance in the flirt packs as well,
and
> people have suggested groupings and so forth and it comes into play in the
> name dialogue as well, but as you observe, we have limited options to deal
> with the problem.

RCV: Yah well I imagine the IE wasn't designed around the idea of other
people modding it! :-) We all have to make do with what we have available.

What about having the first PC response, indeed the ONLY allowable
response be, "Let me think...", which would leave the question on the
screen. Then they click choice 1, the only one avaialable,, and are taken
to the list of actual responses? You wouldn't want this for all
conversations of course, but for the real heavy duty scrollers it might
work.

>
> : And BTW there was no choice available to let her know what my game
name
> : meant. :-( Surely "Silent Death" should have been one of the response
> : choices?!? laffs
>
> : Was a good conversation none the less.... :-)
>
> It was something Blue felt strongly about trying, but of course, there's
> simply no way to account for more than a small sliver of players with that
> kind of a dialogue. Even after adding a few names to what she had done I
> knew that this was a sacrificial lamb of a concept...

RCV: Yes poor Keto whould need quite the data base of responses to deal
with the Zoths'ztarr the Dragon Slayers and Goos and Marvin the Barbarbians,
et al. All joking aside, I thought the selections you gave were pretty
comprehensive given the means at hand. Do the choices change based upon the
gender of the PC? Some of the ones I saw didn't seem very appropriate for a
female PC, but not a big issue anyway.
And, in point of fact, she did have the correct response for my given
name, Richard, which is brave/strong ruler, so I chose that one in lieu of
my game name... :) 

Rich
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 1:18:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

"Rich C. Velay" <RCVelay@remove.this.shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:ajvnd.278850$nl.36680@pd7tw3no...
> RCV: A couple of questions and Comments for Jason....
>
> Her Pick Pocket skill seems to be way low... at 11th lvl she has 75%.

Strange - my lvl 10 Keto has 85% in PP...

> As a straight Bard I thought she would get 10% per lvl past 1st and 30
> pounts at 1st lvl. With 10 level ups she should have 100% plus her
starting
> total, no?

....which seems right to me:

Keto starts at lvl 1 with 40 (no dex bonus)
and then lvl 2 through 10 adds a total of 45 (+5 per level-up)
to reach a total of 85 at level 10.
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 7:32:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

"kevin" <completely@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:HREnd.12415$KQ2.4398@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>
> "Rich C. Velay" <RCVelay@remove.this.shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:ajvnd.278850$nl.36680@pd7tw3no...
> > RCV: A couple of questions and Comments for Jason....
> >
> > Her Pick Pocket skill seems to be way low... at 11th lvl she has
75%.
>
> Strange - my lvl 10 Keto has 85% in PP...
>
> > As a straight Bard I thought she would get 10% per lvl past 1st and 30
> > pounts at 1st lvl. With 10 level ups she should have 100% plus her
> starting
> > total, no?
>
> ...which seems right to me:
>
> Keto starts at lvl 1 with 40 (no dex bonus)
> and then lvl 2 through 10 adds a total of 45 (+5 per level-up)
> to reach a total of 85 at level 10.
>
RCV: Well I am going to have to investigate this further, since I was
under the impression that it was BLADES, not Bards, who got/were meant to
get 5% per level up [since they have only half the PP ability of a straight
un-kitted Bard].
Also why would she start with 40 points? That's what a Thief begins
with and a Bard doesn't get as many points at 1st level as a Thief [since
they only have one ability, not seven like a thief....] (but see below...)

I just made a BG2 Bard [this moment] at 8th level. It had a character
screen PP ability of 75% and in SK the number of points spent on PP was
shown as 60. Which would seem to indicate a base score of 15% and 60 points
gained through level ups - which doesn't add up at all.... lafffs
The only way I can make it add up right would be if you get 15% as a
base score, 25% at first level and 5% per each of the seven level ups, for a
total of 15% +25% +35% =75%. But that makes no sense, since on p.234 of the
manual it says the Bard's base score for PP is 10% - on p. 233 it says a
THIEF has a base PP score of 15%.
Assuming the manual is in error [not an unwarranted assumption] and
Bards actually get 15% as a base score, we are left with 15% plus 7x 5% [per
level up] or 35% meaning the Bard I just made got 25% at 1st level [i.e. 8th
lvl Bard with 60 points added and a character screen ability score of 75%
means we have to divide those 60 points [somehow] into seven level ups and
the initial allotment.]

However, that calculation, i.e. 15% for being a Bard, +25% at first
level and +5% for each level up doesn't match ANY of the information in the
manual. [It does however account for the figure of 40% as a "base", i.e. 15%
for being a Bard and 25% allotted "for you" at first level....]
It would also give Keto her 85% at 10th level, i.e. 15% for being a
Bard, +25% at 1st level and then 9x 5% [45%] for level ups, equals 85%. But
as I said, none of this matches up with the info in the manual. But it
doesn't explain why MY Keto had 75% at 10th level. Nor does it explain
Haer'Dalis' strange PP values..... <sigh>

Well like I said I will have to look into it some more. The whole issue
seems pretty confusing, if we are trying to reconcile what the manual says
with what ends up on the screen, to say nothing of trying to reconcile it
all with PnP AD&D.... <double sigh>

I had thought I understood the BG treatment pretty well, but the more I
look at it, the less sure I become. Oh well. :-) Assumptions should
always be challenged.

Thanks for the post and for making me dig a little deeper into all of
this. :-)

Rich
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 8:34:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

"Rich C. Velay" <RCVelay@remove.this.shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:%kKnd.279173$Pl.53820@pd7tw1no...

<respectful snip of intricate matter>

>The whole issue seems pretty confusing,

wow - no kidding! <g>

As far as the manual - I don't know what it says as
I hardly ever consult it for things like this. ;-) I can't
say really what Keto "should" have for her PP% but
I can say that in my game her % is exactly what it
would be if I had started a game as a Bard with 15
dexterity in BG1 (or BG2) - 85% at level 10.

40 at level 1 and then +5 per level
(it's easier to view it this way, I think ;-)

So, my Keto is at least in accordance with how the
game, rightly or wrongly, handles PP for Bards.

Hey, about the pipes - I don't mind them not having any
significance but if they were to be modified later on I'd
like to suggest that they become the Pipes of Penultimate
Pandimonium - with this magical instrument Keto becomes
a Jester.

What I mind about the pipes and the wine bottle is that they
are placed in the far right inventory slots - gah, that drives
me crazy as I always fill inventory slots from left to right.
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 9:00:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

"kevin" <completely@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:yeLnd.12878$KQ2.12799@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>
> "Rich C. Velay" <RCVelay@remove.this.shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:%kKnd.279173$Pl.53820@pd7tw1no...
>
> <respectful snip of intricate matter>
>
> >The whole issue seems pretty confusing,
>
> wow - no kidding! <g>

RCV: Indeed.

> As far as the manual - I don't know what it says as
> I hardly ever consult it for things like this. ;-) I can't
> say really what Keto "should" have for her PP% but
> I can say that in my game her % is exactly what it
> would be if I had started a game as a Bard with 15
> dexterity in BG1 (or BG2) - 85% at level 10.
>
> 40 at level 1 and then +5 per level
> (it's easier to view it this way, I think ;-)

RCV: Sure, but I would like to know HOW they arrive at those figures -
different strokes for different folks. :-)

> So, my Keto is at least in accordance with how the
> game, rightly or wrongly, handles PP for Bards.

RCV: Well after spending the last hour or so starting new versions of
Bards and SKing them up levels, I can say two things - Blades are definately
NOT getting a penalty to PP skill, they get exactly the same valus as a
straight Bard, and the way they implement the quartering of the Skalds skill
is inconsistent, since it isn't quartered overall. But considering your
<snip> I won't go into the details... :-)

And H'D is definately buggered with regard to PPing.... :-)

>
> Hey, about the pipes - I don't mind them not having any
> significance but if they were to be modified later on I'd
> like to suggest that they become the Pipes of Penultimate
> Pandimonium - with this magical instrument Keto becomes
> a Jester.

RCV: Purely a difference of opinion, but I personally wouldn't like
that. I hate modded in NPCs with power gamer equipment, "friends", stats or
abilities. If Keto was meant to be a Jester, Jason could have easily enough
made her one, so having an item that basically changes her class seems a bit
out of line. Plus there are already TWO Bard Harps that cause confusion in
the game. So I'd rather see something unique, albeit not over-powered.

>
> What I mind about the pipes and the wine bottle is that they
> are placed in the far right inventory slots - gah, that drives
> me crazy as I always fill inventory slots from left to right.

RCV: Yeah... everytime she sells stuff I scroll right down and try to
sell the wine bottle... lafffs. I imagine that he didn't want to piss more
people off by taking up her quick item slots [some people bitch about
Boo...] but myself, I'd say drop the wine bottle, put the pipes in a QI slot
and make them do something. I'd rather give up a QI slot for a usable Bard
instrument than two backpack slots for "flavour".....

Rich
Anonymous
November 21, 2004 4:59:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

kevin <completely@invalid.com> wrote:

: So, my Keto is at least in accordance with how the
: game, rightly or wrongly, handles PP for Bards.

That's my feeling as well.

: What I mind about the pipes and the wine bottle is that they
: are placed in the far right inventory slots - gah, that drives
: me crazy as I always fill inventory slots from left to right.

Well, we can't win here, other players could have the exact opposite preference. Sorry.

--
Jason Compton jcompton@xnet.com
Anonymous
November 21, 2004 6:34:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

"Jason Compton" <jcompton@typhoon.xnet.com> wrote in message
news:cnosqd$l9d$1@new7.xnet.com...
> kevin <completely@invalid.com> wrote:
>
> : So, my Keto is at least in accordance with how the
> : game, rightly or wrongly, handles PP for Bards.
>
> That's my feeling as well.
>

RCV: Well after a few hours of tinkering around with BG 2 a nd SK I have
to agree, she does seem to be matching other straight Bards, as BG models
them. My error I guess Too much time with spent playing with my own Bards
getting bonus' she doesn't, from race and Dex and stuff. My bad.

I still don't like what I have discovered about BG's treatment of Bards,
but that isn't germane to Keto.

> : What I mind about the pipes and the wine bottle is that they
> : are placed in the far right inventory slots - gah, that drives
> : me crazy as I always fill inventory slots from left to right.
>
> Well, we can't win here, other players could have the exact opposite
preference. Sorry.
>

RCV: Yeah and as I said in another post, putting one or both of the
items in a QI slot would have caused a few howls of protest as well. I
still think, however, that if the pipes ever do get a power, they, at least,
should go as a "forced" quick item, just like Boo. I know many would
disagree with me though...

Rich
Anonymous
November 24, 2004 5:14:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

"Rich C. Velay" <RCVelay@remove.this.shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:nuBnd.275016$Pl.107314@pd7tw1no...
> And BTW there was no choice available to let her know what my game
name
> meant. :-( Surely "Silent Death" should have been one of the response
> choices?!? laffs
>
> Was a good conversation none the less.... :-)

Ah, I think this is the conversation where "Riven" is
mentioned - her last name or something.

erm, I can't remember the details (how fitting!) but did
I just miss something or was this "Riven" a sudden
reference to something - I don't recall it being mentioned
before the Name Game conversation and yet I believe
the answer option includes a mention of it as being
metioned previously.
Anonymous
December 21, 2004 4:32:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

This was about a month ago, I know. However...

<Andyr> Interesting...
<Andyr> The BGII manual says a level 1 bard has 25 points in Pick Pockets.
<Andyr> When you start one, your score is in fact 40.
<Andyr> The minimum DEX is 12 but according to SKILLDEX.2DA this gives
no bonus.
<Andyr> Actually, SKILLBRD.2DA says 25 too...
<Andyr> Oh, humans get a +15 bonus. Ignore me.
!