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Nikon 8700 "Flexible Program" question

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Anonymous
April 8, 2005 5:54:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I just got this 8700 a couple of days ago, and I can't get it into Flexible
Program. The manual doesn't really explain how to get into it. Apparently an
asterisk is supposed to appear on the screen as you rotate the command dial,
but it doesn't. Can anyone help me with this?
Anonymous
April 8, 2005 11:23:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:54:16 -0500, in rec.photo.digital "Ken_B"
<ken123@usa.com> wrote:

>I just got this 8700 a couple of days ago, and I can't get it into Flexible
>Program. The manual doesn't really explain how to get into it. Apparently an
>asterisk is supposed to appear on the screen as you rotate the command dial,
>but it doesn't. Can anyone help me with this?

IIRC, the 8700 is pretty much the same as my old 5700. First set Program
Mode, P-mode, by holding the mode button down while rotating the command
dial.until P shows.

From the manual"
To use the flexible program, set the camera to P (programmed auto), then
turn the command dial until the desired combination of shutter speed and
aperture appears in the monitor or viewfinder.

----------
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index...
Anonymous
April 9, 2005 12:10:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Thanks for the reply, but those instructions do no appear in my manual.
Program mode is the default setting and the one I have been using.

However, I just noticed the asterisk does appear on the screen when I turn
the command dial (it didn't appear before my original post) but I still
can't change the aperture/speed setting by rotating the dial. I've also been
getting overly-saturated colors, especially with trees and grass, so I'm
beginning to wonder if I didn't receive a lemon!



"Ken_B" <ken123@usa.com> wrote in message
news:D rA5e.4925$nn5.2308@okepread06...
>I just got this 8700 a couple of days ago, and I can't get it into Flexible
> Program. The manual doesn't really explain how to get into it. Apparently
> an
> asterisk is supposed to appear on the screen as you rotate the command
> dial,
> but it doesn't. Can anyone help me with this?
>
Related resources
Anonymous
April 9, 2005 2:24:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 20:10:47 -0500, in rec.photo.digital "Ken_B"
<ken123@usa.com> wrote:

>Thanks for the reply, but those instructions do no appear in my manual.
>Program mode is the default setting and the one I have been using.
>
>However, I just noticed the asterisk does appear on the screen when I turn
>the command dial (it didn't appear before my original post) but I still
>can't change the aperture/speed setting by rotating the dial. I've also been
>getting overly-saturated colors, especially with trees and grass, so I'm
>beginning to wonder if I didn't receive a lemon!

See p.41. If you want a specific aperture select A-mode, shutter speed
select S-mode. Both, then go to manual.

Re: saturation, what mode are you shooting in? If you choose one of the
scene mode there are many in camera adjustments made to the image.

----------
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index...
Anonymous
April 9, 2005 1:03:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

What I missed in the manual was that I have to be in Custom mode 1 or 2 to
use Flexible Program. I was thinking it was supposed to operate in Auto
mode, also.

I also found that the colors are more natural in Custom mode. In Auto they
are over-saturated, especially grass and trees. Too bad I can't tweak things
like saturation and white balance in Auto mode.

Thanks for the help.

Ken

"Ed Ruf" <egruf_usenet@cox.net> wrote in message
news:p oee51lvjs72pm1qq19svj4356f3h6bfr4@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 20:10:47 -0500, in rec.photo.digital "Ken_B"
> <ken123@usa.com> wrote:
>
>>Thanks for the reply, but those instructions do no appear in my manual.
>>Program mode is the default setting and the one I have been using.
>>
>>However, I just noticed the asterisk does appear on the screen when I turn
>>the command dial (it didn't appear before my original post) but I still
>>can't change the aperture/speed setting by rotating the dial. I've also
>>been
>>getting overly-saturated colors, especially with trees and grass, so I'm
>>beginning to wonder if I didn't receive a lemon!
>
> See p.41. If you want a specific aperture select A-mode, shutter speed
> select S-mode. Both, then go to manual.
>
> Re: saturation, what mode are you shooting in? If you choose one of the
> scene mode there are many in camera adjustments made to the image.
>
> ----------
> Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
> See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
> http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index...
Anonymous
April 9, 2005 2:41:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:03:46 -0500, in rec.photo.digital "Ken_B"
<ken123@usa.com> wrote:

>What I missed in the manual was that I have to be in Custom mode 1 or 2 to
>use Flexible Program. I was thinking it was supposed to operate in Auto
>mode, also.

Sorry about not pointing that I. I never use the auto mode in any of my
cameras. I prefer having control of what processing is done to the image
(none) vs. having the camera make the choices. This does mean I post
process everything.

>I also found that the colors are more natural in Custom mode. In Auto they
>are over-saturated, especially grass and trees. Too bad I can't tweak things
>like saturation and white balance in Auto mode.

In auto mode the image saturation, contrast and sharpening are all changed
based upon the content of the image. So the effect can vary image to image.
you are better off, imo, to shoot P-mode and set sat, contrast and
sharpening yourself. P-mode is the same exposure program as auto, but it
allows you to take control of in camera processing..

----------
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index...
Anonymous
April 9, 2005 7:25:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Ed Ruf wrote:
[]
> Sorry about not pointing that I. I never use the auto mode in any of
> my cameras.
[]

You don't know what you've missed, Ed. You can actually concentrate on
the composition and content of the image! <G>

David
Anonymous
April 9, 2005 7:25:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 15:25:55 GMT, in rec.photo.digital "David J Taylor"
<david-taylor@blueyonder.co.not-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk> wrote:

>Ed Ruf wrote:
>[]
>> Sorry about not pointing that I. I never use the auto mode in any of
>> my cameras.
>[]
>
>You don't know what you've missed, Ed. You can actually concentrate on
>the composition and content of the image! <G>

David I see the <G>, but don't understand. My 5700 and 990 are set in C.1
with Image Adjustment and Saturation to normal instead of the default auto
and sharpening off. Then in P-mode shooting is exactly the same as Auto
mode. No difference.
----------
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index...
Anonymous
April 9, 2005 11:17:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Ed Ruf wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 15:25:55 GMT, in rec.photo.digital "David J
> Taylor" <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.not-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Ed Ruf wrote:
>> []
>>> Sorry about not pointing that I. I never use the auto mode in any of
>>> my cameras.
>> []
>>
>> You don't know what you've missed, Ed. You can actually concentrate
>> on the composition and content of the image! <G>
>
> David I see the <G>, but don't understand. My 5700 and 990 are set in
> C.1 with Image Adjustment and Saturation to normal instead of the
> default auto and sharpening off. Then in P-mode shooting is exactly
> the same as Auto mode. No difference.
> ----------

I do something similar with my 5700 as well. I think it was perhaps more
the idea of having to post-process every image. I think you will agree
that there are folk out there who spend more time worrying about the
technicalities rather than the content of the photo, though.

Cheers,
David
Anonymous
April 10, 2005 11:01:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I've found I can get better results in C1 with saturation set to -3. Seems I
shouldn't have to do that, though. I'm thinking of shipping it back for an
exchange.

"Ken_B" <ken123@usa.com> wrote in message
news:D rA5e.4925$nn5.2308@okepread06...
>I just got this 8700 a couple of days ago, and I can't get it into Flexible
> Program. The manual doesn't really explain how to get into it. Apparently
> an
> asterisk is supposed to appear on the screen as you rotate the command
> dial,
> but it doesn't. Can anyone help me with this?
>
Anonymous
April 10, 2005 12:48:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:01:41 -0500, in rec.photo.digital "Ken_B"
<ken123@usa.com> wrote:

>I've found I can get better results in C1 with saturation set to -3. Seems I
>shouldn't have to do that, though. I'm thinking of shipping it back for an
>exchange.

No offense, but to us this is a completely arbitrary and subjective
statement, given the fact you haven't told us by what basis you came to
this conclusion and have shown no examples. Is this based on display on a
calibrated monitor or printing using proper profiles to a color managed
printer?

Typo? You will note on p.87 of the user manual that the lowest setting is
-2 and this is recommended for use where images will be processed on a
computer. The 8700 uses the same sensor as my old 5700 and this was a fact
back then as well. For maximum detail you want to set it lower and then
boost in software later. Be sure to set Image Adj to NORAMAL instead of
AUTO and Turn off all sharpening in the camera., IMO. Sharpening is best
applied as the last post processing step.

Raw would really be the best to shoot in, but IIRC Nikon didn't fix the
firmware to write raw in a reasonable amount of time. I believe the 8700
like the 5700 takes ~20 sec.
----------
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index...
Anonymous
April 10, 2005 2:02:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I did make a typo....it -2, not -3. My issue isn't with detail, that's
great. By the way, I'm not a professional photographer or camera expert. I
just wanted a higher resolution point-and-shoot camera.

Experimenting with Paint Shop Pro, I've found Automatic Color Balance with
the pointer set to "Sunlight" makes the colors more normal-looking in
daylight shots (both sunny and cloudy). So maybe my problem is with white
balance rather than saturation?

Some examples here: http://www.cox-internet.com/kenb2002/8700/





"Ed Ruf" <egruf_usenet@cox.net> wrote in message
news:cj7i511riag7ll175i7qdk71b0ajoin3tt@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:01:41 -0500, in rec.photo.digital "Ken_B"
> <ken123@usa.com> wrote:
>
>>I've found I can get better results in C1 with saturation set to -3. Seems
>>I
>>shouldn't have to do that, though. I'm thinking of shipping it back for an
>>exchange.
>
> No offense, but to us this is a completely arbitrary and subjective
> statement, given the fact you haven't told us by what basis you came to
> this conclusion and have shown no examples. Is this based on display on a
> calibrated monitor or printing using proper profiles to a color managed
> printer?
>
> Typo? You will note on p.87 of the user manual that the lowest setting is
> -2 and this is recommended for use where images will be processed on a
> computer. The 8700 uses the same sensor as my old 5700 and this was a fact
> back then as well. For maximum detail you want to set it lower and then
> boost in software later. Be sure to set Image Adj to NORAMAL instead of
> AUTO and Turn off all sharpening in the camera., IMO. Sharpening is best
> applied as the last post processing step.
>
> Raw would really be the best to shoot in, but IIRC Nikon didn't fix the
> firmware to write raw in a reasonable amount of time. I believe the 8700
> like the 5700 takes ~20 sec.
> ----------
> Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
> See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
> http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index...
Anonymous
April 10, 2005 4:03:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:02:58 -0500, in rec.photo.digital "Ken_B"
<ken123@usa.com> wrote:

>I did make a typo....it -2, not -3. My issue isn't with detail, that's
>great. By the way, I'm not a professional photographer or camera expert. I
>just wanted a higher resolution point-and-shoot camera.
>
>Experimenting with Paint Shop Pro, I've found Automatic Color Balance with
>the pointer set to "Sunlight" makes the colors more normal-looking in
>daylight shots (both sunny and cloudy). So maybe my problem is with white
>balance rather than saturation?
>
>Some examples here: http://www.cox-internet.com/kenb2002/8700/

Ok, this helps a bit, but is only a relative comparison. To put this in
absolute terms we need to know what you are comparing this on. Just some
monitor? A monitor running the Adobe Gamma util? A monitor running another
visual based calibration based util, such as the free version of Praxisoft
Wyziwig (http://www.praxisoft.com/pages/products.wiziwyg.html) or a
hardware/software combo calibrated monitor using Colorvision's or Getrag's
stuff? If you are not using a calibrated monitor to base your decisions on,
all you're doing is making a judgement based upon your specific system, not
anything in absolute terms. Move the image to another system and you may
come to a different conclusion. I used Wiziwig with decent results before
moving to a Colorvision Spyder and consumer grade software.

Next, please let us know the other settings. They can effect the apparent
saturation of an image. What exposure mode, image adjustment, wb settings?

All the above matter. Please include all, otherwise we are just going
around and around.
----------
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index...
Anonymous
April 10, 2005 11:10:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Well, first comparison...my eyes! And three different monitors, two LCD and
one tube type, plus a color print.

After snapping the picture, you get a brief replay of the shot on the
camera's monitor, then it goes back to the live image. The difference in
saturation is very obvious then.

This is about the sixth digital camera I have owned, edited hundreds of
shots on this same 18-inch Dell UltraSharp, and never had any similar
problem.

While I'm at it, let me ask if anyone can explain how to get OUT of movie
mode once you've gotten in. The book does not explain that...at least I
couldn't find it (poorly written, in my opinion). I had to use the Reset
option to get back to normal.

"Ed Ruf" <egruf_usenet@cox.net> wrote in message
news:crii515ov5uv4ivi3quj33j4bucr4opb3b@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:02:58 -0500, in rec.photo.digital "Ken_B"
> <ken123@usa.com> wrote:
>
>>I did make a typo....it -2, not -3. My issue isn't with detail, that's
>>great. By the way, I'm not a professional photographer or camera expert. I
>>just wanted a higher resolution point-and-shoot camera.
>>
>>Experimenting with Paint Shop Pro, I've found Automatic Color Balance with
>>the pointer set to "Sunlight" makes the colors more normal-looking in
>>daylight shots (both sunny and cloudy). So maybe my problem is with white
>>balance rather than saturation?
>>
>>Some examples here: http://www.cox-internet.com/kenb2002/8700/
>
> Ok, this helps a bit, but is only a relative comparison. To put this in
> absolute terms we need to know what you are comparing this on. Just some
> monitor? A monitor running the Adobe Gamma util? A monitor running another
> visual based calibration based util, such as the free version of Praxisoft
> Wyziwig (http://www.praxisoft.com/pages/products.wiziwyg.html) or a
> hardware/software combo calibrated monitor using Colorvision's or Getrag's
> stuff? If you are not using a calibrated monitor to base your decisions
> on,
> all you're doing is making a judgement based upon your specific system,
> not
> anything in absolute terms. Move the image to another system and you may
> come to a different conclusion. I used Wiziwig with decent results before
> moving to a Colorvision Spyder and consumer grade software.
>
> Next, please let us know the other settings. They can effect the apparent
> saturation of an image. What exposure mode, image adjustment, wb settings?
>
> All the above matter. Please include all, otherwise we are just going
> around and around.
> ----------
> Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
> See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
> http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index...
Anonymous
April 11, 2005 12:29:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 19:10:24 -0500, in rec.photo.digital "Ken_B"
<ken123@usa.com> wrote:

>Well, first comparison...my eyes! And three different monitors, two LCD and
>one tube type, plus a color print.
>
>After snapping the picture, you get a brief replay of the shot on the
>camera's monitor, then it goes back to the live image. The difference in
>saturation is very obvious then.

The lcd on any camera isn't calibrated by any standard.

>This is about the sixth digital camera I have owned, edited hundreds of
>shots on this same 18-inch Dell UltraSharp, and never had any similar
>problem.

Again, this is just a relative observation, unless the monitor has been
calibrated. You can like it and as long as all you care about is how it
looks on this specific monitor, then it is fine. I can tell you the same
image you like on you monitor is washed out on my calibrated monitor. Do
you get prints that faithfully reproduce what you see on the monitor?
That's what counts.

I'm sorry if you don't like my consistent bringing this up, but nothing you
are comparing against provides an absolute reference.

>While I'm at it, let me ask if anyone can explain how to get OUT of movie
>mode once you've gotten in. The book does not explain that...at least I
>couldn't find it (poorly written, in my opinion). I had to use the Reset
>option to get back to normal.

Sure, it's simple go to the Continuous menu and select single. See p.80 of
th manual.
----------
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index...
Anonymous
April 11, 2005 12:29:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I give up. No help here.


"Ed Ruf" <egruf_usenet@cox.net> wrote in message
news:vdgj51d8shk63i78vqq0k96r6pf7r9vmrl@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 19:10:24 -0500, in rec.photo.digital "Ken_B"
> <ken123@usa.com> wrote:
>
>>Well, first comparison...my eyes! And three different monitors, two LCD
>>and
>>one tube type, plus a color print.
>>
>>After snapping the picture, you get a brief replay of the shot on the
>>camera's monitor, then it goes back to the live image. The difference in
>>saturation is very obvious then.
>
> The lcd on any camera isn't calibrated by any standard.
>
>>This is about the sixth digital camera I have owned, edited hundreds of
>>shots on this same 18-inch Dell UltraSharp, and never had any similar
>>problem.
>
> Again, this is just a relative observation, unless the monitor has been
> calibrated. You can like it and as long as all you care about is how it
> looks on this specific monitor, then it is fine. I can tell you the same
> image you like on you monitor is washed out on my calibrated monitor. Do
> you get prints that faithfully reproduce what you see on the monitor?
> That's what counts.
>
> I'm sorry if you don't like my consistent bringing this up, but nothing
> you
> are comparing against provides an absolute reference.
>
>>While I'm at it, let me ask if anyone can explain how to get OUT of movie
>>mode once you've gotten in. The book does not explain that...at least I
>>couldn't find it (poorly written, in my opinion). I had to use the Reset
>>option to get back to normal.
>
> Sure, it's simple go to the Continuous menu and select single. See p.80 of
> th manual.
> ----------
> Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
> See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
> http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index...
Anonymous
April 11, 2005 4:03:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 20:11:31 -0500, in rec.photo.digital "Ken_B"
<ken123@usa.com> wrote:

>I give up. No help here.

At this point I have no idea what you expect.

First, On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:02:58 -0500, in rec.photo.digital
"Ken_B" <ken123@usa.com> wrote:

>Experimenting with Paint Shop Pro, I've found Automatic Color Balance with
>the pointer set to "Sunlight" makes the colors more normal-looking in
>daylight shots (both sunny and cloudy). So maybe my problem is with white
>balance rather than saturation?

The On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:03:09 -0400, in rec.photo.digital Ed Ruf
<egruf_usenet@cox.net> wrote:

>Next, please let us know the other settings. They can effect the apparent
>saturation of an image. What exposure mode, image adjustment, wb settings?

If you not going to say what wb, image adjust settings the shot was
taken with how can one even answer your question? It's not as if you
left the exif info in the images you posted.

________________________________________________________
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
http://EdwardGRuf.com
!