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Apple Macintosh OSX / UNIX Forum

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October 10, 2009 7:06:46 PM

Why isn't there a forum category for Apple's Mac OSX? Or Mac OS anything?

Tom's has 5 dedicated categories (and several sub-categories) for Windows in the software forums, and a dedicated category (plus sub-categories) for Linux.

We can all see there are lots of Macintosh members here @ Tom's. Just look at the emotional vitriol exchanged between members in any news blog on Tom's that just mentions Apple's name. Despite what Apple's marketing may suggest, Mac users have many of the same tech questions as Windows users: network security, video conferencing, remote access, hardware replacement, wireless peripherals, storage networks, etc. but interact with their computers using a different interface.

More than 10% of the computers in use are Macs; how can Tom's afford to ignore over 10% of the worlds technology users?
October 10, 2009 7:46:26 PM

Also, technology user is stretching it a bit for a mac user.

Sheeple is a far better word.
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October 10, 2009 7:50:21 PM

I agree. Other than apple products that PC users own (i.e. iPhones and iPods) there's nowhere to go for discussions on Mac hardware, software, or accessories. It'd be nice if there was a place for Mac specific questions and discussions to take place so they don't become buried in the PC forums.

Personally I work in both worlds. At the office, I manage 100+ PCs and at home I run a 90% Apple network. I think there are allot of people here who, like me, live in both worlds.

The other thing I'd bring up is that the forum isn't fully Mac compatible. Safari isn't able to render all of the forum functionality and Firefox is marginally better.

I know there are Mac specific forums out there (like the apple forums & the maccast forum), but it'd be nice to have this forum really cover everything tech. I mean there are groups for nearly every sector of technology I can think of, except Apple/Mac.
October 10, 2009 7:57:35 PM

strangestranger said:
Also, technology user is stretching it a bit for a mac user.

Sheeple is a far better word.



:pfff:  You're an idiot if you think all Mac users are non-techies. Percentage-wise I'd say the vast majority of PC users wouldn't know a USB port from an Ethernet port. I'd say it's 50/50 for Mac users.
October 10, 2009 8:01:10 PM

I think people can tell they are different shapes so not the best example.

Simple fact is that mac's are of no importance to a site like toms or these forums. If a section is to go anywhere it should be with the other pre-builts.

I have said it before and it is true.
October 10, 2009 8:23:24 PM

It's a great example! That was my whole point. For most users you'd have to explain which is which. I can't count the times I've had to say, "Now plug that cable into the slot that looks like a telephone jack, only wider..."

It's not such a simple fact at all. A Mac Pro is packed with server grade tech and is as configurable as any PC, barring building one from scratch. And that last exception is a benefit rather than a hindrance. It makes it possible for programmers to expect consistent results from every line of code.

But don't get me wrong, I'm not alluding that Macs are better; just that Mac users can have just as many hardware/software questions as any PC user and that a couple forums dedicated to that fact would be a good idea.
October 10, 2009 11:15:05 PM

Even if only a small fraction of Tom's members have Mac related questions, I'm sure its a large enough base to warrant a corner in these forums. After all, Tom's has forums for working out at the gym, religion, TV shows, and many other non-technology related pursuits.

Obviously a Mac specific forum isn't going to be targeting users like yourself, strangestranger. On the contrary; ignorant, anti-Apple lemmings like you will be targeting the forum as a place to waste your time posting countless jabs at Apple users.
October 11, 2009 7:38:03 AM

Here is a pity post ... I love Mac users !

<insert square headed smiley face icon>
October 11, 2009 8:44:55 AM

The amount of money paid for a Mac, they should have their own site where all Mac owners could go and get decent answers, or doesnt Mac support this?
October 11, 2009 10:17:17 AM

I may be anti apple, but I am not ignorant.

Personally, supporting a dedicated apple forum on this site is an insult to true pc entusiasts and dabblers.
October 11, 2009 10:42:30 AM

But then so is supporting Windows 9x and pre-built systems.
October 11, 2009 11:07:49 AM

I have since had a change of heart. Having a place where we can keep an eye on these deviants might be a good idea, raise the IQ of the other forums.

Kinda like a concentration camp, a ghetto. Somewhere we can cleanse of these filth.

October 11, 2009 11:09:27 AM

You mean somewhere we can keep V8VENOM in a closely controlled environment? :D 
October 11, 2009 11:39:16 AM

Christ is he still around, I know he pops up now and again.

Hmm, he could be made a mod for the section :lol: 
October 11, 2009 1:24:31 PM

Yea, he posted a thread bitching about the lack of asking for an OSX section a week or two ago.
October 12, 2009 4:02:40 AM

strangestranger said:
I may be anti apple, but I am not ignorant.

Personally, supporting a dedicated apple forum on this site is an insult to true pc entusiasts and dabblers.


Not unless it's a *cough* Hackintosh *cough* forum.
October 15, 2009 3:38:19 AM

strangestranger said:
I may be anti apple, but I am not ignorant.

Personally, supporting a dedicated apple forum on this site is an insult to true pc entusiasts and dabblers.


@strangerstranger
Congratulations, you have single handedly made me consider never coming back to the TomsHardware forums. You should be proud, oh wait, I know you are. Never-mind then.

How can anyone say they aren't ignorant, yet completely ignore the opinions of millions of computer users worldwide? The fact is, there are a LOT of people out there that love Macs, don't you think that there is at least a chance that some of them are technology enthusiasts?

I may not know quite as much about computers as you do, but I would say that might have something to do with the fact that I grew up in a farm house 40 minutes from the closest respectable city and dial-up for internet. But of course, you aren't ignorant, so that means you know that it is actually because I grew up using a Mac.

I will give you one point however. Apple as we know it now isn't the same company I grew up with. Steve Jobs may have saved Apple (we won't get into that here), but since his return their lack of hardware support is sad, as well as the lack of a true customizable desktop. The iMac is great for the average user (for whom it is targeted for), and the MacPro is well known in the Workstation market, but neither are perfect. 512mb 4870 in a workstation anybody? How about overpriced bto options?

Yeah, I don't like it either, but it doesn't change the fact that people that use Apple computers are just that, people. And everyone should be given the respect they deserve. And before you ask, I may seem like a hypocrite for not giving you the respect you deserve, but you lost my respect a long time ago.
October 15, 2009 3:39:33 AM

i've got homebuilt XP and Vista machines. i've got a sweet, 10-year old Compaq 5070 (yeah the one with its little tummy sticking out) running Debian. and i live in the real world and make a respectable living supporting Red Hat, Debian, Windows and Mac. it does seem a little silly for a cool internet destination full of enthusiasts like Tom's to have so many Windows forums (one for each version) and not have a Mac forum.

i'd welcome it alongside Tom's other great forums.
October 15, 2009 6:50:08 AM

Why not? The French have one :/ 
October 15, 2009 7:13:25 AM

That's a really interesting observation from Tom's in France.
I don't think I'm going to sit here and browse through all of the Tom's forums worldwide, but I wonder how many of the other Tom's have Mac forums too?
October 15, 2009 7:15:23 AM

Considering the other sites are completely different to the English sites I wouldn't be surprised.
October 15, 2009 7:27:33 AM

Well, the French have stuff set out differently too.

Their Mac section is virtually dead tho.
Anonymous
October 15, 2009 12:47:02 PM

Having a Mac forum readily available here at Toms would hopefully be a good resource for anyone needing help with anything Mac or Hack(intosh) :D 

Being a Die Hard PC enthusiast, I use PCs all the time and I also work on PCs for friends and family. Although I do get asked every now and then if I can work on a Mac system.

The last two Mac systems I owned were a G-3 and a G-4. I had OS-X running on both of them and the G-4 also ran windows.

I no longer have them as they weren't powerful enough for my needs at the time I got rid of them. Also, the mouse drove me nuts as I couldn't get it to click correctly half the time.

It was one of these mice....

Next school year, I'm gonna have to get my daughter her first laptop and while I'm leaning toward it being a Windows based system, I'll probably have to check with the school first to make sure they don't have a preference over the type of system the kids work on during school.

If I have to get her a MacBook, then having a Mac forum would be that much more important rather than going somewhere unfamiliar and possibly unfriendly towards the classic PC user.
October 15, 2009 2:31:35 PM

Sure.

I'm a student with a Black Macbook.

(God, please save me from the townsfolk)

Macs, in my opinion are better for education. Not nearly as many games to disturb you with.
October 15, 2009 3:18:11 PM

bob_vicktor said:
@strangerstranger
Yeah, I don't like it either, but it doesn't change the fact that people that use Apple computers are just that, people. And everyone should be given the respect they deserve. And before you ask, I may seem like a hypocrite for not giving you the respect you deserve, but you lost my respect a long time ago.


WTF are you on about hillbilly.

Why would I deserve respect or know more about computers than you???

I don't need anyone's respect, this is an internet god damn forum.
November 9, 2009 5:51:12 PM

strangestranger said:
I may be anti apple, but I am not ignorant.

Personally, supporting a dedicated apple forum on this site is an insult to true pc entusiasts and dabblers.


Yeah. I definitely agree. There is no way any Apple fan could also be into PC gaming, custom built gaming rigs, Home Theater PC's, media servers, etc. Jeez, all I do all day is drool over the next great Apple product and follow around the herd waiting to waste all of my money. Well, that's in between reading PC news, upgrading my rigs, gaming, etc.

If you are looking for an adjective to describe yourself it's "FANBOY," not "PC enthusiast."
November 9, 2009 6:35:48 PM

Keep telling yourself that sweetheart.
November 9, 2009 7:05:08 PM

Quote:

The last two Mac systems I owned were a G-3 and a G-4. I had OS-X running on both of them and the G-4 also ran windows.



How were you doing this on a machine with a PowerPC chip in it? Virtual PC??
Anonymous
November 9, 2009 8:31:05 PM

I first got the systems about 3½ years ago and got rid of them a little over a year later. As for how running Windows was done, I honestly don't remember how windows was run on it.

I have not had any reason to keep up with the Apple community in a while now.

But I do know that there is a need for such so that the resources can be easily accessed when needed.

-

About the only thing I have ever had against Apple is the way they manufacture their iPhones and iPods. The last I knew, they make them so you have to send them in to get the battery changed when it no longer holds a charge. It seems that Amazon Kindle is being made the same way and I refuse to buy anything made in this manner unless it's an extremely cheap item.
November 9, 2009 8:48:57 PM

As regards with the batteries, they now do the same with the batteries in macbook pro's. It is no longer deemed a user servicable part.

At least that is how I have read it.
November 9, 2009 8:51:46 PM

That's accurate. They boast a much longer battery life and triple the charge cycles, extending usable life past the general usable life of the laptop. Only time will tell if that's true.
Anonymous
November 9, 2009 8:59:22 PM

The funny thing about that is there's already a site on the net showing detailed pictures how to open it up to get at the battery. :) 

Not sure if it was here at Tom's that posted about it or LifeHacker.

So I'm sure there will be suppliers with the correct battery which will make purchasing the unit worthwhile for those of us who are technically oriented.
November 9, 2009 9:03:10 PM

Yes, apple's use very nice batteries I give them that although obviously the normal usage will differ from their claims but they should be better than most laptops.

However, in return you need to take the laptop apart to change one of the few things you can guarantee will degrade and fail over time. I am not sure if it actually voids your warranty, I think it does.

November 9, 2009 9:06:19 PM

That's likely. Though I would guess that if it did degrade severely during the warranty period, they'd replace it under warranty.

Of course that means living without it for a few days to a week. I thought that Apple stores were being taught how to do this in store.
November 9, 2009 9:11:55 PM

Yes, the "genius" bars may be able to do it but then again, this is purely a money making thing no doubt. Battery warranties are also seperate from the machine ones usually. Can't be extended past one year or so.
November 9, 2009 9:23:04 PM

Quote:
The funny thing about that is there's already a site on the net showing detailed pictures how to open it up to get at the battery. :) 

Not sure if it was here at Tom's that posted about it or LifeHacker.

So I'm sure there will be suppliers with the correct battery which will make purchasing the unit worthwhile for those of us who are technically oriented.


You miss another important factor, that the battery shape and fitting becomes integral to save weight and space. You simply can not have a product like the Nano running on AAA batteries. As for the tear down guide there are a few out there for most HW. When the first EeePC came out it was only a couple of weeks before fully illustrated guides on how to install additional storage and Bluetooth support appeared. Tom's has never really shown any interest in this.
November 12, 2009 8:40:41 PM

Quote:
The funny thing about that is there's already a site on the net showing detailed pictures how to open it up to get at the battery. :) 

Not sure if it was here at Tom's that posted about it or LifeHacker.

The best teardown instructions I've seen for the Mac laptops is at:
http://www.ifixit.com/

This is one of those areas where I see Apple slipping in planned obsolescence. It worked great for iPod sales and now they've stepped it up to the expensive stuff. Last I knew, you couldn't get the battery replaced on-site at the Apple Stores. Here you've got returning Apple customers, mostly satisfied customers with aging computers, standing in your store surrounded by all the new gleaming stuff, marketing displays, and professional Apple sales people. And nobody wants to be without their computer for several days... waiting all that time for your older, slower model to be returned.
:bounce: 
November 12, 2009 8:59:54 PM

I wonder if your post brought ifixit.com down. It won't load for me.
November 12, 2009 11:07:54 PM

Hmm... it seems to be working ok to me. Maybe they went down earlier today.

If you still can't access it, Tom's showed their (iFixit's) teardown of the new unibody white Macbook a few weeks ago:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Apple-polycarbonate-ma...

They pluck the battery right out of it.
November 15, 2009 5:06:27 AM

re: battery replacement. batteries, as we all probably know, are made of stuff which is bad for lakes and streams and even landfills, when they arent disposed of properly. you cant just throw a battery in the garabage ... i mean, you can, but if you care about the environment, you shouldnt. but some do because, depending on where you take that used battery, they may charge you to dispose it.

part of apple's pure aluminum and pure glass and BFR and PVC free engineering stuff is motivated by their want to improve their so called carbon footprint -- a "green" intiative thing. and they say, so is their new posture on non-user replaceable batteries.

from apple's website it seems they'll replace the battery in your laptop on the same day, if you make an appointment.

with the smaller ipod/itouch/iphone it seems they do send it off somewhere to have a replacement battery swapped in. if the replacement is done outside of warranty they also list a $6.95 shipping fee for the out of warranty repair so they must be shipping it off somewhere.

if you are out of warranty the batteries are not difficult to replace. i've used the directions at the ifixit.com site too (thanks Wildwell) ... but usually buy parts and tools elsewhere because i'm cheap.
Anonymous
November 17, 2009 7:33:02 PM

I personally don't like apple, and don't spend my time reading about it.
But if there was actually something interesting to be said about apple, I'd be willing to read a few comments, to expand my computer knowledge.

A computer where backdoors are hard to figure out, settings are locked out, is not really a computer I want to read about.
The best topic they could release is probably when a new version hits the shelves, or a new program.
Otherwise there's very little to say about macs that can't be said about PC's.
They mainly use the same hardware (or less), and their prices are more... I'm really sure people owning a Mac are not so smart in the computer world, because it would be a wonder if a mac would actually reveal something about hardware or tweaks/hacks.

Linux/unix is a whole other story!
It's good for hack boxes, creating Lin platforms on strange devices like the PSP, or cellphones.
Also there are so many different versions out, that it'd be nice to read which version is best used for a server, and which as a desk/laptop replacement.
November 19, 2009 12:54:12 PM

Hey Guys,

Just to let you know, I have rolled out this section. Be sure to check it out! No flame wars allowed!

Justin
November 19, 2009 1:31:31 PM

Let the games begin, moohaha.









I kid, I kid.
November 19, 2009 2:15:27 PM

What?, first they want to close "The Other" and then we can't get into flame wars with the apple fanbois?
!