On Board Graphics vs Cheapest Video Card

[alohascott]

If I was trying to build an inexpensive PC for watching blu ray movies or surfing the web and things like that.

Is there any advantage to either and onboard video vs the cheapest video card you can find?
something like this?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127596

also is there any noticeable difference between different models of onboard video cards?

 

[nforce4max]

That is crap, build your self a amd rig that has integrated graphics as they are much more modern and provide a lot more performance than this 8400gs can provide. If you are just trying to use parts that are already on hand and is intel igp (gma) then this card will be better in the long run.

 

[alohascott]

Yep it is crap.
I choose it because it was the absolute cheapest one that was in stock.
Ok so how much would I have to spend to beat out the onboard graphics on an amd board?

here is the cheapest ddr5 one I could find.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814261060


Is all Intel onboard graphics garbage?

 

[nforce4max]

Mostly yes because Intel is so minimalistic about their designs that even their best gma only has 12 shaders and drivers for those who end up gaming on them find that things are not so great. As for the older versions they tend to run hot and slow. Hell even a puny discreet card can provide a small boost in i/o intensive apps that don't make much use of a gpu compared to the igp by freeing up ram and bandwidth needed to run it. IGP like the Intel gma are essentially parasitic in their design using the system ram for all of it's basic functions while a discreet card has it's own vram. The bandwidth needed to run a discreet card is much less in light tasks any way.

 

[alohascott]

thanks for quick reply
just to clarify.
Are you talking about any motherboard that supports and intel chip?
Or just motherboards made by intel.

also would the DDR5 card I mentioned above beat the graphics on an amd board?

 

[nforce4max]

Ok boards with an intel chipset and the core i3/5 if that new but for the amd board lol. AMD has much better onboard graphics than intel. As for a discreet card by amd using gddr5 will provide plenty of bandwidth.

 

[alohascott]

sorry its a little unclear.
are you saying the newer boards supporting 1155 sandy bridge i5 i7 have ok integrated graphics?

 

[nforce4max]

Yes but for the i3/5 it is on the cpu not the board.

 

[masseybe84]

If all you are wanting to do is watch Blueray (3D or 2D) and surf the web. Anything more than the I3-2100 or a Llano A-Series chip is overkill. The HD2000 or HD6530D
is more than enough to handle those kinds of light graphic workloads.

 

[alohascott]

Ok I understood about the overkill.

But now you have me curious about the graphics performance of newer I5 I7 motherboards.

can you point me in the right direction to understand more about the Intel graphics being handled by the CPU?

Is there any benchmarks that I can see for that type of system?

How would something like an I5-2500k with integrated graphics compare to a separate graphics card?

 

[masseybe84]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4083/the-sandy-bridge-review-intel-core-i7-2600k-i5-2500k-core-i3-2100-tested/11

Everything you could possibly want to know about the IGP

 

[alohascott]

That link was very helpful.
But the AMD integrated graphics did was near the bottom on all tests, even with a 1100T.

I thought you said that AMD integrated graphics was better then Intel.

 

[nforce4max]

That link was very helpful.
But the AMD integrated graphics did was near the bottom on all tests, even with a 1100T.

I thought you said that AMD integrated graphics was better then Intel.

They are but the cpu behind them is weak compared to Intel. Thanks to Intel never releasing the full instruction set for any thing above sse3 and the weak floating point unit in amd cpus they lose badly in cpu intensive apps and the low clocks rates don't help. Intel gma HD on the i5 clocks very high compared to most gpus and it has decent fill rates but the shader is very very weak. Gaming with Intel graphics is very hit or miss depending on the game. Games that are more fill rate dependent will perform much better on Intel but any thing that is shader heavy is going to be a slide show at best. The amd apu series has very low cpu clocks low clocks on the gpu and is why they don't do so well in the benchmarks. Also there is always a question of settings and bias in the reviews.

 

[iam2thecrowe]

"If I was trying to build an inexpensive PC for watching blu ray movies or surfing the web and things like that. " if that is all you want, then no need to worry, any moden onboard graphics with a decent cpu can handle things fine. If you want to play games you need to go spend at least $120 to get yourself a decent video card.

 

[alohascott]

Thanks
is there any particular card you are thinking about when you mention the 120 price tag?

 

[masseybe84]

HD 5770. Tomshardware puts out a monthly best GPU for X dollars. Here's the latest one.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-performance-radeon-geforce,2997-3.html

 

[masseybe84]

They are but the cpu behind them is weak compared to Intel. Thanks to Intel never releasing the full instruction set for any thing above sse3 and the weak floating point unit in amd cpus they lose badly in cpu intensive apps and the low clocks rates don't help. Intel gma HD on the i5 clocks very high compared to most gpus and it has decent fill rates but the shader is very very weak. Gaming with Intel graphics is very hit or miss depending on the game. Games that are more fill rate dependent will perform much better on Intel but any thing that is shader heavy is going to be a slide show at best. The amd apu series has very low cpu clocks low clocks on the gpu and is why they don't do so well in the benchmarks. Also there is always a question of settings and bias in the reviews.

Nforce4max is talking about LLano chips with the HD 6550 on die. The 1100t was using onboard graphics and is more comparable to the first gen of I-series chips not the new Sandybridge.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103942

 

[king smp]

since the thread asks onboard vs cheapest video card
I would pick the Gt 240 over any onboard graphics currently out there
the $50 investment would be worthwhile
make using the computer a better overall experience
it is overkill for browsing and movie watching
but it is better to have it and not need it
than need it and not have it

 

[alohascott]

ok with the gt 240
I gave the link above to the ddr5 model but there is also a cheaper ddr3 model.

are you better off with the ddr3 1gb model or the ddr5 512mb model.

the ddr5 model is an extra $10

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133321
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814261060

 

[masseybe84]

Either works though if you are seriously looking for a discrete graphics card for HTPC use I'd pick the GT 430. 55 Dollars, 35 after MIR.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814261103

 

[alohascott]

ok
so on the video card what has the most effect on its performance?
core clock?
stream processors?
Memory interface?
or memory type?

 

[masseybe84]

It depends on the application you are using. GDDR5 will always be faster than GDDR3 version of a card and as a general rule with the same stream processors the core clock will make it faster. That's all based on the same architectures so really more than just looking at numbers.

What's the point of this question. Why are you shopping for a video card? Are you wanting to play BR disc with the best Picture Quality? Do you want a dedicated video card for a low profile HTPC for some light 720p gameplay on your TV? Is this for a desktop gaming rig? If you are looking for help to build a rig go to this thread to use as a template and post in the systems subforum so you can receive the appropriate help.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/261222-31-build-advice

 

[alohascott]

Aloha
I looked at the link about best graphics cards for the money and decided to get the 5670.

I just want decent performance now and be able to sell it for a decent price if i decide to change it later.

something rated as a good value now I think will offer me that.

 

[alohascott]

between the ddr5 model and ddr3 model.
how much of difference will that memory make?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102930
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150467

 

[mkchampion14]

HD 5770. Tomshardware puts out a monthly best GPU for X dollars. Here's the latest one.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-performance-radeon-geforce,2997-3.html

^+1 I use the 5770 with my i7-930 (OC to 4GHz) and it's very effective even in 1080p Crysis