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Last response: in Systems
October 20, 2011 12:25:19 AM

Hello everyone, I'm new, anyways here's my questions.

So my specifications are in my signature. I'm going to be running my processor at 100% all the time. I am OC'd to 4.4ghz from 3.4. My computer isn't staying cool, while only being on 30% cpu usage, I'm hitting 86 degrees Celsius. I am on a low budget, and need my computer to stay cool while getting the Maximum performance out of my CPU. I need all suggestions. Whether it's fans, cases, whatever. But try to keep the price low. BUT PLEASE, ANYTHING YOU HAVE IN MIND. I need my stuff cool badly, I've tried making my fans different directions, reapplying thermal compound, all that good stuff. Be sure to check out my sig for my computer info, thanks.

SPECS here actually

Intel i7-2600k Sandy Bridge @4.4ghz

Corsair Vengeance 1600mhz 16gb RAM

750W Zephyr PSU

3x Radeon HD 4350

Asus P8P67-M PRO M/B

NZXT Apollo Case

Corsair H70 Water Cooling

Sunbeam Rheobus Extreme Fan Controller

1TB Samsung 7200RPM HDD

More about : questions

a b B Homebuilt system
October 20, 2011 12:29:36 AM

Lower your OC, its bad to be running that hot. I assume you are currently running the stock cooler. If you want to keep it cheap you may not be able to run at 4.4 GHz, you may have to step it down a bit so you can lower the voltage more. How much are you willing to spend on a good CPU cooler? A hyper 212+ is cheaper ($26 on newegg today) and fairly good, but there are much better coolers if you are willing to pay a bit extra. Given your current temps im not sure if the 212+ will be sufficient for your CPU @ 4.4 GHz.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


Edit: Didn't see the H70 before i posted, changes things a bit, but you should still lower your OC before you burn something up.
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October 20, 2011 12:38:31 AM

Get a rasa 750xspc water loop and sell the h70.
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Related resources
October 20, 2011 12:38:47 AM

What VCore are you running at? What configuration do you have the fans on the H70? What is the ambient temperature in the room? And what is the airflow situation around the case (is it enclosed, on the desk, on the floor (is it carpet? hardwood?))?

And why on earth would you run a proc at 100% all the time?

You may want to see this review: http://www.guru3d.com/article/corsair-h70-review/10
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October 20, 2011 12:46:17 AM

hunter315 said:
Lower your OC, its bad to be running that hot. I assume you are currently running the stock cooler. If you want to keep it cheap you may not be able to run at 4.4 GHz, you may have to step it down a bit so you can lower the voltage more. How much are you willing to spend on a good CPU cooler? A hyper 212+ is cheaper ($26 on newegg today) and fairly good, but there are much better coolers if you are willing to pay a bit extra. Given your current temps im not sure if the 212+ will be sufficient for your CPU @ 4.4 GHz.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


Edit: Didn't see the H70 before i posted, changes things a bit, but you should still lower your OC before you burn something up.


5 ghz is considered easy on a good air cooling system. Thanks for the input though.
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October 20, 2011 12:51:39 AM

alexthager said:
5 ghz is considered easy on a good air cooling system. Thanks for the input though.



Really? Easy?? You may want to read this:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/264867-29-corsair-goo...

Including this gem:

'A quote from an ASUS technical specialist regarding the K CPUs:
"1. Approximately 50% of CPUs can go up to 4.4~4.5 GHz
2. Approximately 40% of CPUs can go up to 4.6~4.7 GHz
3. Approximately 10% of CPUs can go up to 4.8~5 GHz (50+ multipliers are about 2% of this group)"'

So only about 2% of the procs get to 5.0. 50% can't even get to 4.4. That's why they don't sell them at 4+.

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October 20, 2011 12:52:18 AM

And you still didn't answer why you'd need that, esp running 24x7
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a b B Homebuilt system
October 20, 2011 12:53:59 AM

I recommend getting a case without a goofy A$$ed door (impedes airflow, and dust/clog magnet), and/or some higher CFM fans. Also fans should be pull in from front, and side. Push out back, and top.


cases:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$60 LIAN LI Lancool First Knight Series PC-K57W (20% off with code)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$60 Cooler Master HAF 912 (add 2x 200mm fan for top, and front. 1x 140mm fan for the side)

Fans:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$14 Scythe slipstream 68.54 CFM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$22 SilenX Iextrema 90 CFM

If you decide to get the HAF case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$15 NZXT FS-200RB 200mm
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$19 Antec TRUEQUIET 140 140mm


*EDIT* also why do you have 3x 4350's (assuming they are fanless?), when 2x 6570's will out perform them (most also have fans).
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October 20, 2011 12:54:51 AM

inanition02 said:
What VCore are you running at? What configuration do you have the fans on the H70? What is the ambient temperature in the room? And what is the airflow situation around the case (is it enclosed, on the desk, on the floor (is it carpet? hardwood?))?

And why on earth would you run a proc at 100% all the time?

You may want to see this review: http://www.guru3d.com/article/corsair-h70-review/10


Well, there's a problem, whenever I look at OC tutorials, my BIOS always looks different then someone else's, even if we have identical MBs. So I can guarantee some BIOS settings need changing. My h70 fans take in air from my case and blow out air at the back. It's around 68 Degrees Fahrenheit in my room. My case is on a hardwood floor under my very large desk. Here's some CPU-Z Info: Core Voltage: 1.304v and well that's about it.
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October 20, 2011 12:57:19 AM

inanition02 said:
Really? Easy?? You may want to read this:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/264867-29-corsair-goo...

Including this gem:

'A quote from an ASUS technical specialist regarding the K CPUs:
"1. Approximately 50% of CPUs can go up to 4.4~4.5 GHz
2. Approximately 40% of CPUs can go up to 4.6~4.7 GHz
3. Approximately 10% of CPUs can go up to 4.8~5 GHz (50+ multipliers are about 2% of this group)"'

So only about 2% of the procs get to 5.0. 50% can't even get to 4.4. That's why they don't sell them at 4+.


Yes only 2%, but the 2600k is regarded as one of the highest OC'ing processors, and fastest.
And I'm running multiple instances of an application.
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October 20, 2011 12:57:26 AM

alexthager said:
Well, there's a problem, whenever I look at OC tutorials, my BIOS always looks different then someone else's, even if we have identical MBs. So I can guarantee some BIOS settings need changing. My h70 fans take in air from my case and blow out air at the back. It's around 68 Degrees Fahrenheit in my room. My case is on a hardwood floor under my very large desk. Here's some CPU-Z Info: Core Voltage: 1.304v and well that's about it.


I would imagine the 3x 4350s heat up the case a TON and also block airflow. You'd get better performance out of most of the 6000 series - go for a 6850 or the like, and I bet case temps will drop a lot...
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October 20, 2011 1:00:04 AM

IH8U said:
I recommend getting a case without a goofy A$$ed door (impedes airflow, and dust/clog magnet), and/or some higher CFM fans. Also fans should be pull in from front, and side. Push out back, and top.


cases:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$60 LIAN LI Lancool First Knight Series PC-K57W (20% off with code)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$60 Cooler Master HAF 912 (add 2x 200mm fan for top, and front. 1x 140mm fan for the side)

Fans:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$14 Scythe slipstream 68.54 CFM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$22 SilenX Iextrema 90 CFM

If you decide to get the HAF case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$15 NZXT FS-200RB 200mm
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$19 Antec TRUEQUIET 140 140mm


*EDIT* also why do you have 3x 4350's (assuming they are fanless?), when 2x 6570's will out perform them (most also have fans).


They aren't for gaming, I just have 6 monitors. Anyways, thanks for the cases, However, I'm not looking for dirt cheap cases, just under 300 dollars, and yesterday I ordered 3 Delta 240 CFM fans.
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October 20, 2011 1:01:44 AM

inanition02 said:
I would imagine the 3x 4350s heat up the case a TON and also block airflow. You'd get better performance out of most of the 6000 series - go for a 6850 or the like, and I bet case temps will drop a lot...


Well they are pretty small but thanks, I'm getting the 5870 eyefinity 6. I need 6 monitor support, if you have a better GPU in mind for 6 monitors please tell me.
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October 20, 2011 1:05:02 AM

alexthager said:
Yes only 2%, but the 2600k is regarded as one of the highest OC'ing processors, and fastest.
And I'm running multiple instances of an application.


Yes - and you're running a 30% overclock! That's quite a bit. Even as the highest overclocking processor, still only 1 out of every 2 can hit 4.4. And only 1 out of 50(!!!) can hit 5.0ghz.

So you could keep buying 2600ks until you get one that can hit it, I guess.

Also, I will point out that technically speaking more ghz doesn't really help with multi-tasking. That has to do with RAM and cores (and maybe, sometimes, Hyperthreading). The idea is that each application has one or more threads which each are allocated "core" time by the queue handler in the OS. More cores = more resources to delegate so it can do more at the same time. More ghz, at that level esp, just means that each job finishes fractionally faster. If you really want ultimate performance, you'd have to look at what the app is and optimize it. Ideally in code, and as low level as possible (i.e., I have an app that used to be hugely memory intensive - I worked through the code and removed the memory bottleneck. Now it's proc limited. But it's already running in low level language near as possible to assembly. And the work it does isn't easily parallel-ized. That app could benefit from more speed, but another 1-200mhz won't make much difference in the end.)

Also, you can get Eyefinity edition 5000/6000 series that have 6 display outputs on one card - would greatly improve temps.
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October 20, 2011 1:06:33 AM

5870 is a good choice for 6 displays - I will say though that you could do a single normal card (6570 or so) with three displays, then do USB/VGA converters for the other 3, if you're not gaming on those. That might save money and case heat.
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October 20, 2011 1:08:36 AM

inanition02 said:
Yes - and you're running a 30% overclock! That's quite a bit. Even as the highest overclocking processor, still only 1 out of every 2 can hit 4.4. And only 1 out of 50(!!!) can hit 5.0ghz.

So you could keep buying 2600ks until you get one that can hit it, I guess.

Also, I will point out that technically speaking more ghz doesn't really help with multi-tasking. That has to do with RAM and cores (and maybe, sometimes, Hyperthreading). The idea is that each application has one or more threads which each are allocated "core" time by the queue handler in the OS. More cores = more resources to delegate so it can do more at the same time. More ghz, at that level esp, just means that each job finishes fractionally faster. If you really want ultimate performance, you'd have to look at what the app is and optimize it. Ideally in code, and as low level as possible (i.e., I have an app that used to be hugely memory intensive - I worked through the code and removed the memory bottleneck. Now it's proc limited. But it's already running in low level language near as possible to assembly. And the work it does isn't easily parallel-ized. That app could benefit from more speed, but another 1-200mhz won't make much difference in the end.)

Also, you can get Eyefinity edition 5000/6000 series that have 6 display outputs on one card - would greatly improve temps.


Well my friend, no him in real life, not making *** up, easily runs at 4.4, and has his fans on pretty low, has the same cooling and processor and he never exceeds 65 degrees
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October 20, 2011 1:10:16 AM

inanition02 said:
5870 is a good choice for 6 displays - I will say though that you could do a single normal card (6570 or so) with three displays, then do USB/VGA converters for the other 3, if you're not gaming on those. That might save money and case heat.


And do you have any cases in mind? or things to change in the BIOS? Case modding? Thanks for helping man, I really appreciate it.
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a b B Homebuilt system
October 20, 2011 1:11:29 AM

Overclocking is very dependent on the chip, he might have a lower leakage chip, or might not have needed to up his voltage quite as much, both of which would result in significantly lower temperatures. To assume that your 2600k should be able to do 4.4 at the same temps as his because its the same model ignores the inherent variations in CPUs. Don't assume that you can do the same OC as someone else, you need to tweak your OC for what your CPU can do, and what your cooling system can do, obviously your cooling system isn't up to it at the moment.
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October 20, 2011 1:11:37 AM

alexthager said:
Well my friend, no him in real life, not making *** up, easily runs at 4.4, and has his fans on pretty low, has the same cooling and processor and he never exceeds 65 degrees


Well, they said 50% can hit at least 4.4ghz.

That's 1 in 2....he got the one, you got the other...
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October 20, 2011 1:15:13 AM

alexthager said:
And do you have any cases in mind? or things to change in the BIOS? Case modding? Thanks for helping man, I really appreciate it.


I would say think airflow - clear, clean lines. Front and side (intakes) to back and top (outputs). Bundle internal cables together with zip ties to clear airflow. Think about alternative mounts for the hdds (I mount my mechanical hdds in a 2x5.25" -> 3x3.5" HDD converter with an intake fan to clear the bottom of the case for airflow). Think about where the air goes, what it hits, and what speed (i.e., does anything cause turbulence or impede airflow?)

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a b B Homebuilt system
October 20, 2011 1:22:54 AM

Self-contained water coolers are a gimmick. They are not as good as air. That's why you're hot.
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October 20, 2011 1:30:59 AM

hunter315 said:
Overclocking is very dependent on the chip, he might have a lower leakage chip, or might not have needed to up his voltage quite as much, both of which would result in significantly lower temperatures. To assume that your 2600k should be able to do 4.4 at the same temps as his because its the same model ignores the inherent variations in CPUs. Don't assume that you can do the same OC as someone else, you need to tweak your OC for what your CPU can do, and what your cooling system can do, obviously your cooling system isn't up to it at the moment.


We have the same chip and cooling.
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October 20, 2011 1:32:10 AM

inanition02 said:
Well, they said 50% can hit at least 4.4ghz.

That's 1 in 2....he got the one, you got the other...


There's not only one K intel processor, I can think of two right now.We have the exact same chip, so the OC should be the EXACT same.
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October 20, 2011 1:33:51 AM

Petrofsky said:
Self-contained water coolers are a gimmick. They are not as good as air. That's why you're hot.


That's an opinion, it's a fact that my cooling should easily be capable of 4.4 look at youtube videos, the h70 has a good rep whether you like it or not
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a b B Homebuilt system
October 20, 2011 1:37:44 AM

alexthager said:
There's not only one K intel processor, I can think of two right now.We have the exact same chip, so the OC should be the EXACT same.


False! The OC will NEVER be the SAME. The chips vary, quite significantly, from one unit to the next. There are some 2600k chips that can barely hit 4 GHz, there are others that will do 5 GHz on a simple air cooler. While technically "identical", the chips are far from identical if you look at it on a micro electronics level, tiny variations in the silicon can result in significant variations in overclocking potential. Why do you think they bin chips? All Sandy Bridge i5's are the same, all Sandy Bridge i3s are the same, they are just slight variations in the silicon that lead to different thermal profiles and overclocking potential which means some need to be clocked lower to stay in their thermal window.


Computer processors run on magic smoke and black magic, nothing in a computer system is ever exactly the same as another, even if they are consecutive serial numbers.
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October 20, 2011 1:38:45 AM

inanition02 said:
I would say think airflow - clear, clean lines. Front and side (intakes) to back and top (outputs). Bundle internal cables together with zip ties to clear airflow. Think about alternative mounts for the hdds (I mount my mechanical hdds in a 2x5.25" -> 3x3.5" HDD converter with an intake fan to clear the bottom of the case for airflow). Think about where the air goes, what it hits, and what speed (i.e., does anything cause turbulence or impede airflow?)


I don't know what you mean the hard drive thing, but my hard drives to block airflow, and my cable management is a disaster. And for a fan controller, are any fans supposed to plug into the MB and the controller? If my cpu pump isn't plugged into both my comp won't boot up.
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October 20, 2011 1:40:03 AM

hunter315 said:
False! The OC will NEVER be the SAME. The chips vary, quite significantly, from one unit to the next. There are some 2600k chips that can barely hit 4 GHz, there are others that will do 5 GHz on a simple air cooler. While technically "identical", the chips are far from identical if you look at it on a micro electronics level, tiny variations in the silicon can result in significant variations in overclocking potential. Why do you think they bin chips? All Sandy Bridge i5's are the same, all Sandy Bridge i3s are the same, they are just slight variations in the silicon that lead to different thermal profiles and overclocking potential which means some need to be clocked lower to stay in their thermal window.


Computer processors run on magic smoke and black magic, nothing in a computer system is ever exactly the same as another, even if they are consecutive serial numbers.



Why is it different if we both purchased from Newegg for the same price?
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a b B Homebuilt system
October 20, 2011 1:40:31 AM

alexthager said:
They aren't for gaming, I just have 6 monitors. Anyways, thanks for the cases, However, I'm not looking for dirt cheap cases, just under 300 dollars, and yesterday I ordered 3 Delta 240 CFM fans.



I didn't know what your budget was, that is why I recommended those cases (BTW the HAF 912 is still a good case). The 6570's also support eyefinity, but a single 6870 or 6950 would be best (runs cooler, and only need one).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$160 CM HAF 932 Advance (USB 3.0, and tons of room for huge cards like the 69xx)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$180 CM HAF X
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$190 Corsair Obsidian Series 650D
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$220 Xigmatek Elysium Black Server Edition (non window) CCC-HSA0DS-U03 All Black Aluminum / Steel ATX Super Tower Computer Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$230 Silverstone RAVEN
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$280 Corsair Obsidian Series 800D
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October 20, 2011 1:42:16 AM

alexthager said:
There's not only one K intel processor, I can think of two right now.We have the exact same chip, so the OC should be the EXACT same.


Even chips pressed from the same wafer of silicon have inherent differences - not every Core i7 2600k can hit 5.0ghz (only 2% OF 2600ks can) and only 1 in 2 2600ks can hit 4.4ghz.

Basically it goes like this - say one silicon wafer yields 100 chips. Out of that, 98 are good to 3.8ghz. So they sell them as Core i7 2600ks. But they don't test them higher than that - due to flaws in process/materials/etc, maybe only 50 of them can hit 4.0ghz....maybe only 20 can hit 4.5ghz, etc. Intel has a very high success/yield rate with the Sandy Bridge die. But that doesn't mean all the 2600k chips they make are perfect, or that they can all hit 5.0ghz. They DO sell the chips that can only hit 3.8ghz and no higher...because if they scrapped them, they'd lose a lot of money.

Think about it. If all the 2600ks could hit 4.4ghz "easy", why wouldnt Intel market them as "4.4ghz chips!! and 4 cores plus hyperthreading!!" and charge $100 more?
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October 20, 2011 1:46:25 AM

alexthager said:
I don't know what you mean the hard drive thing, but my hard drives to block airflow, and my cable management is a disaster. And for a fan controller, are any fans supposed to plug into the MB and the controller? If my cpu pump isn't plugged into both my comp won't boot up.



You plug the pump into a fan controller? That's probably a contributor...it needs steady voltage which controllers by definition don't provide. Pump <> fan.

And fans would plug into one or the other but not both - mobo would do auto speed control based on the temp and the fan controller does manual control for the others.

Clean up those cables and look at what the HDDs do to airflow. I have a 2->3 version of this (which is 3->4)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
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a b B Homebuilt system
October 20, 2011 1:47:04 AM

alexthager said:
Why is it different if we both purchased from Newegg for the same price?



Think of a CPU, kinda like a snowflake. While they are similar, the miniscule differences are the issue. Weather they are the same price or not is irrelevant. Intel (and AMD) have processors that have to meet a certain set limit (exceeding that limit is great tho), that limit means weather the chip is binned as a 2600, 2600k, ect... There are always differences within the chip (molecular level) that means no two chips are the same.
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October 20, 2011 1:48:35 AM

IH8U said:
I didn't know what your budget was, that is why I recommended those cases (BTW the HAF 912 is still a good case). The 6570's also support eyefinity, but a single 6870 or 6950 would be best (runs cooler, and only need one).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$160 CM HAF 932 Advance (USB 3.0, and tons of room for huge cards like the 69xx)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$180 CM HAF X
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$190 Corsair Obsidian Series 650D
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$220 Xigmatek Elysium Black Server Edition (non window) CCC-HSA0DS-U03 All Black Aluminum / Steel ATX Super Tower Computer Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$230 Silverstone RAVEN
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$280 Corsair Obsidian Series 800D


Hmm, Which do you think will be the coolest, I don't care about appearance, but I feel as if some of those may not perform that well. It can be the biggest case in the world, it won't be moving, and I have A TONNN of room, so yeah.
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October 20, 2011 1:50:18 AM

inanition02 said:
Even chips pressed from the same wafer of silicon have inherent differences - not every Core i7 2600k can hit 5.0ghz (only 2% OF 2600ks can) and only 1 in 2 2600ks can hit 4.4ghz.

Basically it goes like this - say one silicon wafer yields 100 chips. Out of that, 98 are good to 3.8ghz. So they sell them as Core i7 2600ks. But they don't test them higher than that - due to flaws in process/materials/etc, maybe only 50 of them can hit 4.0ghz....maybe only 20 can hit 4.5ghz, etc. Intel has a very high success/yield rate with the Sandy Bridge die. But that doesn't mean all the 2600k chips they make are perfect, or that they can all hit 5.0ghz. They DO sell the chips that can only hit 3.8ghz and no higher...because if they scrapped them, they'd lose a lot of money.

Think about it. If all the 2600ks could hit 4.4ghz "easy", why wouldnt Intel market them as "4.4ghz chips!! and 4 cores plus hyperthreading!!" and charge $100 more?


Thank for explaining that, and you sir, have a point, that was a very clear explanation. My question is, what would be your plan of action?
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October 20, 2011 1:52:16 AM

inanition02 said:
You plug the pump into a fan controller? That's probably a contributor...it needs steady voltage which controllers by definition don't provide. Pump <> fan.

And fans would plug into one or the other but not both - mobo would do auto speed control based on the temp and the fan controller does manual control for the others.

Clean up those cables and look at what the HDDs do to airflow. I have a 2->3 version of this (which is 3->4)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


Alright, do you suggest plugging the pump into the CPU Fan slot?
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a b B Homebuilt system
October 20, 2011 1:52:22 AM

It would be a tossup, either HAF case is great (ugly but lots of space for HDD's, and great cooling), the Xigmatek (huge heavy hideous server case), and the Corsair 800D (lightest, but fewer fans than the HAF's).
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a b B Homebuilt system
October 20, 2011 1:52:26 AM

alexthager said:
That's an opinion, it's a fact that my cooling should easily be capable of 4.4 look at youtube videos, the h70 has a good rep whether you like it or not


I guess you think I'm dissing your thang or something, otherwise I'm at a loss to explain the stroppiness of your reply. You post here looking for help and then get defensive when it's offered. Relax and look at this set of facts. You bought into the H2O mystique.
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October 20, 2011 1:53:22 AM

As of now, my cable management blows, and does my case in that sense. What would be your plan in organizing you cables if you don't really have a place to put them?
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October 20, 2011 1:55:52 AM

IH8U said:
It would be a tossup, either HAF case is great (ugly but lots of space for HDD's, and great cooling), the Xigmatek (huge heavy hideous server case), and the Corsair 800D (lightest, but fewer fans than the HAF's).


I have a 1tb hdd, and a small 60gb ssd, and won't be adding more. I just need room for that and my liquid cooling, size does NOT matter, cooling is the only priority, so sound doesn't matter either. So with that in mind, what will provide the coolest temps?
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October 20, 2011 1:59:32 AM

Petrofsky said:
I guess you think I'm dissing your thang or something, otherwise I'm at a loss to explain the stroppiness of your reply. You post here looking for help and then get defensive when it's offered. Relax and look at this set of facts. You bought into the H2O mystique.


I'm defensive because I don't want to listen to an idiot, if someone can defend what they say, I find that important, if they blurt random facts from wikipedia, why should I listen? Some people I strongly disagree with but that only helps me find what I'm truly looking for. I also find it hard to believe that an air cooler would be better, so why don't you please EXPLAIN why it's better, rather than slapping a url on here.
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October 20, 2011 2:00:33 AM

alexthager said:
As of now, my cable management blows, and does my case in that sense. What would be your plan in organizing you cables if you don't really have a place to put them?


Zip ties. Or sleaving. Either will greatly improve airflow.

When I run out of ways to run the cabling (behind panels, around things, etc), I zip tie them into a tight bundle.
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October 20, 2011 2:03:10 AM

inanition02 said:
Zip ties. Or sleaving. Either will greatly improve airflow.

When I run out of ways to run the cabling (behind panels, around things, etc), I zip tie them into a tight bundle.


alright cool thanks.
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October 20, 2011 2:04:44 AM

I'm still wondering about the case issue if anyone has an idea. Things to keep in mind, for the case, price doesn't matter, noise doesn't matter, nor does size, COOLING ONLY.
But I would like someone with space, so full tower.
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a b B Homebuilt system
October 20, 2011 2:07:15 AM

Self contained water coolers don't have large radiators, and cooling capacity is related to how well you can get heat to your cooling fins, how much total surface area you have on those cooling fins, and how much air you have going across those fins. Big air coolers have larger fins and have higher overall surface area, so with the airflow being similar, and the heat transfer rate only being a little bit less the big air cooler has the advantage over the small self contained water coolers with only a 120mm or 140mm fan. A real water cooling loop has about 3-5 times the radiator area as the self contained loops like the H70, so while the H70 still uses liquid which does transfer heat well, it lacks the surface area to cool the liquid fast enough to compete against a big air cooler.

Tom's has done a series of big air versus little water articles.
Parts 1-3
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/coolit-domino-cogag...
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/corsair-h50-fort120...
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/h50-fort120-cogage,...

Also, if you look at the table from the H70 review here you see that even with two fans on high on it, it gets beaten by the Prolimatech Megahalems when the CPU is under load, the Megahalems is beaten by many other coolers out there these days.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/corsair-h70-liquid-...
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October 20, 2011 2:09:52 AM

alexthager said:
I'm still wondering about the case issue if anyone has an idea. Things to keep in mind, for the case, price doesn't matter, noise doesn't matter, nor does size, COOLING ONLY.
But I would like someone with space, so full tower.


I'm a Lian Li person myself. I have one of their midtower cases currently and love it. Previously have had other mids and desktops from them, all good.

These look good in their full tower/all aluminum series:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

And I think they look good too. I like simple, plain, good design.
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October 20, 2011 2:13:10 AM

hunter315 said:
Self contained water coolers don't have large radiators, and cooling capacity is related to how well you can get heat to your cooling fins, how much total surface area you have on those cooling fins, and how much air you have going across those fins. Big air coolers have larger fins and have higher overall surface area, so with the airflow being similar, and the heat transfer rate only being a little bit less the big air cooler has the advantage over the small self contained water coolers with only a 120mm or 140mm fan. A real water cooling loop has about 3-5 times the radiator area as the self contained loops like the H70, so while the H70 still uses liquid which does transfer heat well, it lacks the surface area to cool the liquid fast enough to compete against a big air cooler.

Tom's has done a series of big air versus little water articles.
Parts 1-3
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/coolit-domino-cogag...
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/corsair-h50-fort120...
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/h50-fort120-cogage,...

Also, if you look at the table from the H70 review here you see that even with two fans on high on it, it gets beaten by the Prolimatech Megahalems when the CPU is under load, the Megahalems is beaten by many other coolers out there these days.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/corsair-h70-liquid-...


I have 3 Delta 240cfm fans on the way to my house, would those alter the results?
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October 20, 2011 2:14:53 AM

inanition02 said:
I'm a Lian Li person myself. I have one of their midtower cases currently and love it. Previously have had other mids and desktops from them, all good.

These look good in their full tower/all aluminum series:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

And I think they look good too. I like simple, plain, good design.


I like where you are coming from, I personally like the simple, plain design, but not enough fans. I am a believer in a ton of fans. Some cases have new technologies that require less fans, but not all new technology is good, fans get stuff done.
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a b B Homebuilt system
October 20, 2011 2:16:17 AM

The extra case fans wont make a ton of difference as you are still restricted on how much air you can push through that radiator. Best results that i saw for small liquid coolers were push pull configurations that drew air from outside, through the radiator, then into the case, this heats up the case more than the other way but does drop CPU temps as the air entering the radiator is cooler.
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