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BG2 weapons proficiencies question

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December 22, 2004 10:50:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

Hello folks! I am playing BG2 +TOB for the first time (completed BG1
though) and I wonder what weapons proficiencies to chose for my
fighters.
For instance, I know that I am going to aquire a great flail, but do
flails/hammers have additional boni against undead or only the maces?
Valygar's katanas certainly seem to hurt them little, so should I give
him a mace proficiency, or a flail one?

I also have Anomen, but between his proficiencies distribution, AC and
THACO I don't know if he should get the flail. Also, should I develop
him into a dual-wielder or is it better to let him stick with the
shield? He seems to need it badly..

What weapons proficiencies should I develop with Jaheira? Staff has
great reach, but doesn't seem to do a lot of damage...

And what about Mazzy? She has a point in short sword when I find her,
but is it a good weapon for a frontliner? My feeling says not, but I'd
like to hear from the experts. TIA.
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 1:04:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

Maia wrote:
> Hello folks! I am playing BG2 +TOB for the first time (completed BG1
> though) and I wonder what weapons proficiencies to chose for my
> fighters.
> For instance, I know that I am going to aquire a great flail, but do
> flails/hammers have additional boni against undead or only the maces?
> Valygar's katanas certainly seem to hurt them little, so should I give
> him a mace proficiency, or a flail one?

The Flail of Ages is arguably the best fighter weapon in the game
(Paladins excluded of course). It doesn't give any particular bonus
against undead, but it will kill them just fine. Blunt weapons in
general (flails, hammers, maces, clubs) work better against skeletal
creatures then piercing or slashing weapons.

Since none of the NPC fighters have flail proficiency, it will take at
least 6 levels to get 'good' at using it. It is really a weapon for
your PC. Still, if I had to pick someone else, I would probably give it
to Minsc or Valygar.

Valygar is typically most effective when using two weapons. Personally
I would give him three 'pips' in dual wielding first, then worry about
extra weapons later. If you don't mind poking your nose were it is
clearly not wanted, you can find a katana that will serve Valygar quite
well for the rest of the game.

Only one mace gives any extra bonus against undead, but that bonus is a
doozy! But since it is only good against undead, my advice would be to
use it only when you face undead and not bother to put any 'pips' into
it. There are only a few good maces in the game, and none of them are
all that good.

> I also have Anomen, but between his proficiencies distribution, AC and
> THACO I don't know if he should get the flail. Also, should I develop
> him into a dual-wielder or is it better to let him stick with the
> shield? He seems to need it badly..

Anomen isn't really a fighter, he is a cleric that can do fighter
backup. Early in the game he can hold his own just fine, but later his
lack of fighting skills start to show up. You will not get enough
weapon proficiency slots to have him effectively dual wield. I would
keep him in the back using one of the many excellent slings in the game,
and have him melee when your fighters start taking too much damage.
Jaheira is actually a much better fighter then Anomen, at least in my
opinion.

> What weapons proficiencies should I develop with Jaheira? Staff has
> great reach, but doesn't seem to do a lot of damage...

I would just stick with the club, and maybe boost her scimitar and sling
proficiencies. There is one 'optimal' club in the game which you can
get fairly early. She will be perfectly happy with that and a belt of
giant strength.

> And what about Mazzy? She has a point in short sword when I find her,
> but is it a good weapon for a frontliner? My feeling says not, but I'd
> like to hear from the experts. TIA.

Just give her a short bow and let her do what she does best. There is
one short bow that you can get early in the game that turns her into a
truly fearsome fighter. Add in a magic item you can find while trudging
through some swamplands, and she will basically never miss. In one game
I played, she was getting well over 50% of the kills. She would have
gotten more but some creatures are immune to piercing weapons.

MSH
December 22, 2004 10:56:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:04:41 -0800, MSH <mshaslam@drizzle.com> wrote:


>
>Since none of the NPC fighters have flail proficiency, it will take at
>least 6 levels to get 'good' at using it. It is really a weapon for
>your PC.

My PC is a Wild Mage ;) . I know, I know - but I love playing
spellcasters and so far it is a blast.

>Still, if I had to pick someone else, I would probably give it
>to Minsc or Valygar.

Chucked Minsc, so Valygar it is then. I also intend to pick Keldorn
but I gather that there are lots of awesome two-handed swords for him
to use.

>Valygar is typically most effective when using two weapons. Personally
>I would give him three 'pips' in dual wielding first, then worry about
>extra weapons later.

The **** pdf manual says that rangers can't get more than 2 pips - is
it wrong? Because Valygar already has the 2 dual-wielding. Also it
doesn't say what the styles - dual-wield, sword-and-shield, etc
actually do.

> If you don't mind poking your nose were it is
>clearly not wanted, you can find a katana that will serve Valygar quite
>well for the rest of the game.

Don't mind poking my nose, but would like to have a hint on which map.
I'll take it from there myself ;) .


>Anomen isn't really a fighter, he is a cleric that can do fighter
>backup. Early in the game he can hold his own just fine, but later his
>lack of fighting skills start to show up. You will not get enough
>weapon proficiency slots to have him effectively dual wield. I would
>keep him in the back using one of the many excellent slings in the game,
>and have him melee when your fighters start taking too much damage.
>Jaheira is actually a much better fighter then Anomen, at least in my
>opinion.

She also seems a better fighter, sigh. And I intend to exchange her
for Keldorn. The Test should better improve Anomen drastically...


> There is one 'optimal' club in the game which you can
>get fairly early. She will be perfectly happy with that and a belt of
>giant strength.

It's all right, then.
>

>Just give her a short bow and let her do what she does best. There is
>one short bow that you can get early in the game that turns her into a
>truly fearsome fighter. Add in a magic item you can find while trudging
>through some swamplands, and she will basically never miss. In one game
>I played, she was getting well over 50% of the kills. She would have
>gotten more but some creatures are immune to piercing weapons.

Hmm... but what if I intended to use her as a frontliner? Or would
Jaheira be better in this role? Not for my current game, but I am
thinking about another one. Mazzy can be given proficiency in a
two-handed sword can't she? Or are there too few good 2-handed swords
for both her and Minsc to use in the same group? Short swords seem
rather weak... particulary since I can't make her dual-wield if I want
to retain easy use of the bow.
Related resources
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Anonymous
December 22, 2004 10:56:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

Maia wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:04:41 -0800, MSH <mshaslam@drizzle.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Since none of the NPC fighters have flail proficiency, it will take at
>>least 6 levels to get 'good' at using it. It is really a weapon for
>>your PC.
>
>
> My PC is a Wild Mage ;) . I know, I know - but I love playing
> spellcasters and so far it is a blast.
>
>
>>Still, if I had to pick someone else, I would probably give it
>>to Minsc or Valygar.
>
>
> Chucked Minsc, so Valygar it is then. I also intend to pick Keldorn
> but I gather that there are lots of awesome two-handed swords for him
> to use.

You dumped Minsc?!? You heartless bastard! And yes, there are many
excellent 2-handed swords Keldorn can use. In the end however, there is
really only one sword *for* Keldorn.

>>Valygar is typically most effective when using two weapons. Personally
>>I would give him three 'pips' in dual wielding first, then worry about
>>extra weapons later.
>
>
> The **** pdf manual says that rangers can't get more than 2 pips - is
> it wrong? Because Valygar already has the 2 dual-wielding. Also it
> doesn't say what the styles - dual-wield, sword-and-shield, etc
> actually do.

I'm pretty sure they can get 3 stars in dual wielding. They only get
two pips for weapons though.

Dual wielding reduces the penalties for using two weapons. I don't
recall all the effects, but with 3 pips you get -0(main) -2(off hand)

Two-handed gives you faster weapon use and improved critical hit range.

Sword-and-shield gives you better protection against missile weapons and
basically blows.

Single weapon gives you better AC and improved critical hit range. It's
more useful for thieves then fighters, though Mazzy can effectively use it.

>>If you don't mind poking your nose were it is
>>clearly not wanted, you can find a katana that will serve Valygar quite
>>well for the rest of the game.
>
>
> Don't mind poking my nose, but would like to have a hint on which map.
> I'll take it from there myself ;) .


Look around in the various city compounds. I don't want to give too
much away, but it is a great weapon, and will be guarded.

>>Anomen isn't really a fighter, he is a cleric that can do fighter
>>backup. Early in the game he can hold his own just fine, but later his
>>lack of fighting skills start to show up. You will not get enough
>>weapon proficiency slots to have him effectively dual wield. I would
>>keep him in the back using one of the many excellent slings in the game,
>>and have him melee when your fighters start taking too much damage.
>>Jaheira is actually a much better fighter then Anomen, at least in my
>>opinion.
>
>
> She also seems a better fighter, sigh. And I intend to exchange her
> for Keldorn. The Test should better improve Anomen drastically...

Improve him as a cleric, but not as a fighter. For the record, I think
that Jaheira is probably the most useful NPC. Her fighting/spell
casting combo is very effective, especially against magic users. On the
other hand, Keldorn is also an effective mage killer in his own right.


>> There is one 'optimal' club in the game which you can
>>get fairly early. She will be perfectly happy with that and a belt of
>>giant strength.
>
>
> It's all right, then.
>
>
>>Just give her a short bow and let her do what she does best. There is
>>one short bow that you can get early in the game that turns her into a
>>truly fearsome fighter. Add in a magic item you can find while trudging
>>through some swamplands, and she will basically never miss. In one game
>>I played, she was getting well over 50% of the kills. She would have
>>gotten more but some creatures are immune to piercing weapons.
>
>
> Hmm... but what if I intended to use her as a frontliner? Or would
> Jaheira be better in this role? Not for my current game, but I am
> thinking about another one. Mazzy can be given proficiency in a
> two-handed sword can't she? Or are there too few good 2-handed swords
> for both her and Minsc to use in the same group? Short swords seem
> rather weak... particulary since I can't make her dual-wield if I want
> to retain easy use of the bow.

Mazzy is always better in the back. Not that she can't hold her own as
a front line fighter. It's just her bow is so fricken' deadly, it's
kind of a waste. She can learn to use any fighter weapon. But since it
takes 3 levels to get a proficiency, it can take a while to use one
well. I would stick with short sword. The selection isn't great, but
they are good enough.

Jaheira is going to work in basically any role. Melee/missile/spell,
she is a true triple threat.

Having said all the above, my *real* advice is to ignore everything I
just said and play the game how you want. Experiment, try different
things. Just because some usenet 'expert' says something doesn't make
it so. Even if it is true, it doesn't mean you will enjoy the game any
more by following the advice.

MSH
December 24, 2004 3:21:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

Another question - how on earth do I use Melf's Minute Meteors? No
matter what I do I just get a normal "attack" cursor and do the normal
attack. There is nothing in spell description, either in the game or
in the manual that explains what I am doing wrong, Arghh!

A couple of my characters also got level-drained while fighting some
ghosts - but the level-drain icon faded and they still seem to have a
level corresponding to their experience as per character stat sheet.
The spell slots for my spellcasters also appear to be back (they were
blank so I had to rememorize the spells). Must I still restore my
chars and how will I see the difference? Not to mention that I don't
remember who it was, sigh...

How do I protect my summons from being charmed/dominated by enemy
spellcasters? Finally got to summon a Fire Elemental, but those
robbers in the sewers immediately turned it against me!

TIA!
December 24, 2004 3:48:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 12:31:35 -0800, MSH <mshaslam@drizzle.com> wrote:

>Maia wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:04:41 -0800, MSH <mshaslam@drizzle.com> wrote:
>>

>
>You dumped Minsc?!? You heartless bastard! And yes, there are many
>excellent 2-handed swords Keldorn can use. In the end however, there is
>really only one sword *for* Keldorn.

He-he, it was hard to dump him, particulary after his joy that we were
picking up a "fellow-ranger" Valygar. But I intend him for a different
play-through. Generally, I am pleasantly surprised about how you are
made to care for the starting characters - I always thought that the
whole rescue Imoen plot is stupid, but I began to really care for the
little git this time around. Dropping Jaheira is going to be harder
still... but I really want to save her for another game (and romance),
I have seen too much of her quest (Ployer) as it is. I really hope
that Anomen gets his quest soon and I can exchange Jaheira for
Keldorn. Speaking of which - where do I find a Dex enhancing item he
so obviously needs? And at what level should I try to fight dragons?

Oh, and Irenicus seems the most awesome villain ever so far. Those
dreams are great!


>I'm pretty sure they can get 3 stars in dual wielding. They only get
>two pips for weapons though.

You are right. I have tried it and it worked. The manual mentions
nothing of the sort, naturally. Is it possible to put more than 2
points in single-weapon and two-handed styles, too? And what does it
bring?


>Look around in the various city compounds. I don't want to give too
>much away, but it is a great weapon, and will be guarded.

That's a tough fight, though! My 9-11 lvl party appears to be severely
overmatched. I could deal with the summons, using lots of potions and
such, but the enemy party itself is just too tough. Or am I doing
something wrong?


>Improve him as a cleric, but not as a fighter. For the record, I think
>that Jaheira is probably the most useful NPC. Her fighting/spell
>casting combo is very effective, especially against magic users. On the
>other hand, Keldorn is also an effective mage killer in his own right.

Jaheira has lots of spells, including several awesome ones, and she is
difficult to hurt, but she doesn't appear to do much killing either.
Of course, one can do only so much with a staff +1 and no strength
enhancement...

>
>Mazzy is always better in the back. Not that she can't hold her own as
>a front line fighter. It's just her bow is so fricken' deadly, it's
>kind of a waste. She can learn to use any fighter weapon. But since it
>takes 3 levels to get a proficiency, it can take a while to use one
>well. I would stick with short sword. The selection isn't great, but
>they are good enough.
>
>Jaheira is going to work in basically any role. Melee/missile/spell,
>she is a true triple threat.

Well, it seems to me that Jaheira would be ideal as a second-ranker. I
am now using her as a frontline character and far too often her great
spells don't work because somebody interrupts her casting. Also, with
either a staff or a spear she'd be still able to do melee even in a
second rank, right?

Speaking of Mazzy and Korgan - is there a good reason to take
specialisation beyond 3 pips? Better speed (by how much?) and an
additional +1 to damage don't sound all that worthwhile, except for
the missile specialists.
Anonymous
December 24, 2004 3:48:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

Maia wrote:

> Oh, and Irenicus seems the most awesome villain ever so far. Those
> dreams are great!

Having such a great character actor as David Warner to your voice acting
doesn't hurt either.

> You are right. I have tried it and it worked. The manual mentions
> nothing of the sort, naturally. Is it possible to put more than 2
> points in single-weapon and two-handed styles, too? And what does it
> bring?

No, only two pips for the other two. Don't bother with sword and
shield, it really doesn't do that much for you.

> That's a tough fight, though! My 9-11 lvl party appears to be severely
> overmatched. I could deal with the summons, using lots of potions and
> such, but the enemy party itself is just too tough. Or am I doing
> something wrong?

Well, with clever tactics (or as I like to call it 'cheating') you can
win basically any fight at nearly any level (ToB excluded). But yea
9-11 is a little too low.

If you do want to try again, you may want to try as many mind control
spells as possible. Chaos and Emotion are both very effective. Keep
control of your fighters. There are traps right by the entry way.
Boost your characters before going up stairs. Haste, chant, protection
from evil, stoneskin and ironskin, etc. Go up invisible and it will
give you a round to act before they see you. Oh, and watch out for the
backstabbing dude. Apparently he has a huge supply of invisibilty potions.

> Jaheira has lots of spells, including several awesome ones, and she is
> difficult to hurt, but she doesn't appear to do much killing either.
> Of course, one can do only so much with a staff +1 and no strength
> enhancement...

Yea, she only becomes an effective fighter with a good weapon and a
strength booster. Make sure she is always using ironskin. That will
give her enough time to cast insect plague, which is basically a death
sentence to spell casters.

> Well, it seems to me that Jaheira would be ideal as a second-ranker. I
> am now using her as a frontline character and far too often her great
> spells don't work because somebody interrupts her casting. Also, with
> either a staff or a spear she'd be still able to do melee even in a
> second rank, right?

Personally, I think that she would be good in any role. I had her in my
front lines mostly because of my playing style, but I'm sure she would
work just fine in the second rank as well.

> Speaking of Mazzy and Korgan - is there a good reason to take
> specialisation beyond 3 pips? Better speed (by how much?) and an
> additional +1 to damage don't sound all that worthwhile, except for
> the missile specialists.

Not really. I never went beyond 2 pips when I had a choice. There are
game mods that 'fix' the problem, giving characters the pen and paper
game bonuses for that level of specialization. Fortunately, there are
enough good axes and short bows that you can get very early in the game.
So you don't waste those extra pips much.

MSH
Anonymous
December 24, 2004 6:11:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

> That's a tough fight, though! My 9-11 lvl party appears to be severely
> overmatched. I could deal with the summons, using lots of potions and
> such, but the enemy party itself is just too tough. Or am I doing
> something wrong?

I'm not sure what fight you are talking about, but in case it's the one
I mean (I won't mention it to avoid spoilers) you can just run away and let
the fiend kill every summon, and then go in and just kill the fiend. Then go
to the second floar and than back to the first so that one or two guys will
follow you and kill them, and then again, and again... That way is not a
difficult fight (not easy either)


And now a little spoiler space to mention what fight I'm talking about.
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guarded compound in the temple district.... to get the celestial fury
Anonymous
December 24, 2004 6:16:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

> A couple of my characters also got level-drained while fighting some
> ghosts - but the level-drain icon faded and they still seem to have a
> level corresponding to their experience as per character stat sheet.
> The spell slots for my spellcasters also appear to be back (they were
> blank so I had to rememorize the spells). Must I still restore my
> chars and how will I see the difference? Not to mention that I don't
> remember who it was, sigh...

If you are level drained you have to use a restoration spell to recover
your levels, but some ghosts do not level drain you, but they drain some
ability points and those restore automatically after a while so that's
probably ehat happened to you, they must have drained you inteligence (or
wisdom) so thats why you lost spells
Anonymous
December 25, 2004 12:38:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

Maia wrote:
> I really hope
> that Anomen gets his quest soon and I can exchange Jaheira for
> Keldorn. Speaking of which - where do I find a Dex enhancing item he
> so obviously needs?

Investigating the Cult of the Eyeless, in the Temple District.
December 25, 2004 11:14:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

Maia wrote:

> Another question - how on earth do I use Melf's Minute Meteors? No
> matter what I do I just get a normal "attack" cursor and do the normal
> attack. There is nothing in spell description, either in the game or
> in the manual that explains what I am doing wrong, Arghh!

previous post.

> A couple of my characters also got level-drained while fighting some
> ghosts - but the level-drain icon faded and they still seem to have a
> level corresponding to their experience as per character stat sheet.
> The spell slots for my spellcasters also appear to be back (they were
> blank so I had to rememorize the spells). Must I still restore my
> chars and how will I see the difference? Not to mention that I don't
> remember who it was, sigh...

Level drain has to be restored with a (lesser)/restoration Anomen or
Aerie can cast one 4th level IIRC, or goto a temple for ~800 you can get
it done.


> How do I protect my summons from being charmed/dominated by enemy
> spellcasters? Finally got to summon a Fire Elemental, but those
> robbers in the sewers immediately turned it against me!

Read the description for the spell, you must concentrate after casting
the spell for 3 rounds, or the elemental will turn on you, I never used
that spell, Jaheria can cast summon monster3 and fire elemental without
the turning on you chance. Look for staffs of elemental control, they
can summon a day without the chance of turning either.

Have you added any mods?



> TIA!
December 25, 2004 2:48:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 15:11:36 -0300, "FmC" <franciscom@manquehue.not>
wrote:

>
> I'm not sure what fight you are talking about, but in case it's the one
>I mean (I won't mention it to avoid spoilers) you can just run away and let
>the fiend kill every summon, and then go in and just kill the fiend.


They fight each other?! And here I thought that it was a result of my
confusion spell. Would the same happen if I summoned a few disparate
creatures?

Yes, that's the fight. But I actually almost killed all summons on my
first try - killed half of them and had the rest near death, until my
Wild Mage had a surge and completely healed everybody in the area
;) . And I didn't even use any enhancing potions. So that shouldn't be
much of a problem.
But the fight upstairs - urgh. Those traps are just mean. Are they
one-discharge only (I'll send summonses in to trip them, then)
or must they be removed by a thief? I might try the stairs thing if I
am desperate enough - but it does sound a bit like a cheat.

Also, can you please tell me how to use Melf's Minute Meteors? No
matter what I do (also when having no weapon in hand), I get just
normal sword icon instead of the spell one and as far as I can see no
spell is being cast.
December 25, 2004 2:48:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

Maia wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 15:11:36 -0300, "FmC" <franciscom@manquehue.not>
> wrote:
>
>
>> I'm not sure what fight you are talking about, but in case it's the one
>>I mean (I won't mention it to avoid spoilers) you can just run away and let
>>the fiend kill every summon, and then go in and just kill the fiend.
>
>
>
> They fight each other?! And here I thought that it was a result of my
> confusion spell. Would the same happen if I summoned a few disparate
> creatures?

If you summon a demon is says it will attack 'anything' that is not
protected from evil, so cast Prot.form evil 10' first.


> Yes, that's the fight. But I actually almost killed all summons on my
> first try - killed half of them and had the rest near death, until my
> Wild Mage had a surge and completely healed everybody in the area
> ;) . And I didn't even use any enhancing potions. So that shouldn't be
> much of a problem.

Oops.

> But the fight upstairs - urgh. Those traps are just mean. Are they
> one-discharge only

IIRC no.
(I'll send summonses in to trip them, then)

again IIRC, summons will not trip traps.

> or must they be removed by a thief? I might try the stairs thing if I
> am desperate enough - but it does sound a bit like a cheat.

>
> Also, can you please tell me how to use Melf's Minute Meteors? No
> matter what I do (also when having no weapon in hand), I get just
> normal sword icon instead of the spell one and as far as I can see no
> spell is being cast.

After casting, look in the weapon slots, you will see little fireballs,
that is the only weapon you can use until they're gone, (you can still
use other spells though), so the sword icon is correct, just throw them,
watch the scroll screen on the bottom of the screen, you will do two
damages with each meteor, one physical the other fire, they work great
on things with magic resistance also as it bypasses it most of the time.

>
>
>
!