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Upgrading my GeForce 8200 to a GTS 450

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August 28, 2011 3:04:59 PM

So I am currently sporting a GeForce 8200 and want to upgrade to a GTS 450. I have been doing research and found that the 8200 is an mGPU. So if I get a GTS 450 would I be able to install it in a PCI normally or will that interfere with the GPU. I am just getting started in my computer nerdiness so I appreciate the help thanks!

Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 5800+
Graphics: GeForce 8200
PSU: ATX Switching 450W, 12V, 25A
Memory: 4 GB DDR2
a b U Graphics card
August 28, 2011 3:35:44 PM

whats your current mobo BTW?
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a c 173 U Graphics card
August 28, 2011 3:41:21 PM

That psu has me worried, a stock gts 450 at full load uses 109w while overclocked models use slightly more power. That psu seams to be a generic or a oem unit and I suggest that you should invest in a new unit in the future so there is one less thing to hold you back.
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Related resources
August 28, 2011 4:29:25 PM

Ok I will upgrade my PSU asap. Is Corsair a solid brand to go with?

Also i have a XFX MI-A78S-8209 Mobo
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a c 173 U Graphics card
August 28, 2011 4:46:22 PM

Corsair is ok so go for it if you want.
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a b U Graphics card
August 28, 2011 6:03:15 PM

just saying but you could upgrade your processor to a phenom 720 (AM3) or a phenom 910 (AM3) if you wanted:
http://xfxforce.com/en-us/products/motherboards/nvidia%...

and yes corsair, XFX, seasonic, Antec, OCZ and some others are all good brands, things to look for are good PSU reviews (if the PSU doesn't have a review normally thats a bad sign in itself!).

[EDIT]: make sure you uninstall all old drivers (the geforce 8200 drivers) before installing your GTS 450! i would reccommend a 6770 instead for around the same price it has better performance but its up to you really and what games you play (i went with a gts450 due to Nvidia PhysX).
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August 28, 2011 8:30:25 PM

Would suggest upgrading my CPU and GPU then before I worry too much about the PSU? I noticed that on the site it says the 8200 supports AM2+ sockets http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_8200_mgpu_... so am I still able to use the phenom 910?

ps3hacker12 said:
just saying but you could upgrade your processor to a phenom 720 (AM3) or a phenom 910 (AM3) if you wanted:
http://xfxforce.com/en-us/products/motherboards/nvidia%...

and yes corsair, XFX, seasonic, Antec, OCZ and some others are all good brands, things to look for are good PSU reviews (if the PSU doesn't have a review normally thats a bad sign in itself!).

[EDIT]: make sure you uninstall all old drivers (the geforce 8200 drivers) before installing your GTS 450! i would reccommend a 6770 instead for around the same price it has better performance but its up to you really and what games you play (i went with a gts450 due to Nvidia PhysX).

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a b U Graphics card
August 28, 2011 9:05:53 PM

tonybruce said:
Would suggest upgrading my CPU and GPU then before I worry too much about the PSU? I noticed that on the site it says the 8200 supports AM2+ sockets http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_8200_mgpu_... so am I still able to use the phenom 910?


yes you will. i would reccommend the 720 over the phenom 910 tho it will be able to clock higher and may have a chance of unlocking into a quad core.
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a b U Graphics card
August 28, 2011 9:41:58 PM

Quote:
yes.
PSU can wait.
any BIOS update is huge to allow wider CPU compatibility..
phenom ii x3 720 - or better (unlocking abilities)
athlon ii x3 440 - or better (unlocking abilities)
phenom ii x4 820 - or better - (good overclocking abilities)
phenom ii x4 955/965 BE's - ideal and will hold you over for now..


yep this ^ too bad his mobo doesn't support higher end phenoms :/  his board doesn't support athlon II's either and the phenom 820 doesn't seem to be on his CPU support list either :/ 

phenom 720 combos i would reccommend:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

or this graphics card/processor combo (you will still need to buy a cooler):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...
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August 28, 2011 9:45:13 PM

Ill make a mobo upgrade as soon as I am out of college I just need something to run my games at a decent enough quality to tie me over. I understand overclocking but what do you guys mean by unlocking capabilities?

ps3hacker12 said:
yep this ^ too bad his mobo doesn't support higher end phenoms :/  his board doesn't support athlon II's either and the phenom 820 doesn't seem to be on his CPU support list either :/ 

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a b U Graphics card
August 28, 2011 9:49:02 PM

tonybruce said:
Ill make a mobo upgrade as soon as I am out of college I just need something to run my games at a decent enough quality to tie me over. I understand overclocking but what do you guys mean by unlocking capabilities?


unlocking meaning the processor has a chance of unlocking a fourth core so it has a chance of turning from a tri-core into a quad-core.
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August 28, 2011 9:50:35 PM

Is this dangerous to the cpu at all? Also is this something I would have to do in the BIOS or would this occur on its own?

ps3hacker12 said:
unlocking meaning the processor has a chance of unlocking a fourth core so it has a chance of turning from a tri-core into a quad-core.

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August 28, 2011 10:10:37 PM

thanks for all of your help guys
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a c 164 U Graphics card
August 29, 2011 12:24:07 AM

*Tech answer:

I believe you have a "Socket 939" motherboard?

If so, there are no CPU's available anymore for this motherboard.

Your current CPU would bottleneck most graphics cards on the market. This CPU can would bottleneck anything beyond an HD4770 which would be equivalent to no more than a $50 graphics card today.

It's nice to think you can spend $200 and get a half-decent gaming system but that's not going to happen.

Summary:
I advise you to forget about upgrading this system, but if you still intend to squeeze a little more out of it then I'll help you. I only require to know:
a) your motherboard model
b) how much RAM you have and what frequency it is (i.e. 2GB at 800MHz)
c) your budget
d) what games you intend to play
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August 29, 2011 1:54:56 AM

my mobo has ddr2 RAM and has AM2+
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August 29, 2011 1:58:01 AM

Well i really appreciate you stepping in and saving me before I got all confused

Quote:
you know me greghome, I have a hard time telling people they are wrong.. :ange: 

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a b U Graphics card
August 29, 2011 11:35:14 AM

photonboy said:
*Tech answer:

I believe you have a "Socket 939" motherboard?

If so, there are no CPU's available anymore for this motherboard.

Your current CPU would bottleneck most graphics cards on the market. This CPU can would bottleneck anything beyond an HD4770 which would be equivalent to no more than a $50 graphics card today.

It's nice to think you can spend $200 and get a half-decent gaming system but that's not going to happen.

Summary:
I advise you to forget about upgrading this system, but if you still intend to squeeze a little more out of it then I'll help you. I only require to know:
a) your motherboard model
b) how much RAM you have and what frequency it is (i.e. 2GB at 800MHz)
c) your budget
d) what games you intend to play


why bother when his motherboard supports the latest AM3 processors?? his current CPU would bottleneck but a phenom 720 tri-core (maybe OCed and unlocked) would easily keep up with the GTS 450.
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August 29, 2011 1:35:28 PM

A quad core is overkill for a gts 450. The Really I used to have the 5800+, and that cpu is very very good even now a days. Your PSU is good enough its got a solid 25 amps so it should be more than adecuate.

Performance wise, your current cpu and the gts450 matchup well. neither will bottleneck the other. Pay attention to what resolutions you are playing at, tis all.
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a b U Graphics card
August 29, 2011 5:44:47 PM

Quote:
one, you spelled adequate incorrectly...
second, you have no clue what you speak of either.
quad core overkill for GTS 450 - asinine statement
5800+ good nowadays - for what an HTPC maybe that's about it.
thirdly - just move on and do not come back to this thread, 'The Really'.

over the last week or so it seems the ignorance is becoming plague like blanketing the internet.
what the hell is going on.?!


what he said ^ and also

fourthly who said quad core its a tri-core phenom...
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a c 164 U Graphics card
August 31, 2011 9:08:48 PM

ps3hacker12:

Don't be such a jerk.

First of all, I accidentally missed his answer to what motherboard he had. I had an X2-4800+ on an S939. Obviously if I had seen his answer I would have Google'd it and found out it was not an S939.

Second of all, I said I wasn't sure and that I would help him if it wasn't S939.

People can make misteaks but a jerk is a jerk and the following comment from you is simply rude:

"in either case any info from you here on out is null and void."

If you're going to be a jerk, why don't you read through the entire article and flame the guys who are making idiotic comments that don't even help like "columbian coke" or even this comment made about YOU:

"bro, it's already been decided that he is an idiot...
that's why he hasn't been back."

I've never been anything but professional, and your comment is far from the worst I've seen but I am getting fed up with people being so quick to criticize.

There is a code of conduct for Internet posting and chatting that states that we should never type anything on the Internet that we wouldn't say in a polite conversation.

I'd like people to adhere to this code (this includes "malmental" who was more rude, just not to me.)
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a c 164 U Graphics card
August 31, 2011 9:12:58 PM

tonybruce,

If you still want help I'd be happy to open up a dialogue and discuss your options. As you may have read above, I missed your comment about which motherboard you had.

Anyway, I do happen to know a great deal about computers such as where bottlenecks occur, power supplies and the costs of upgrading.

It is important to note that new graphics cards are coming out soon which I suggest be taken into consideration.
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a c 164 U Graphics card
August 31, 2011 9:45:26 PM

To really help him we need to nail down which games he plays.. I didn't see that.

I don't think that's really been discussed, and if he just wanted to play a few games that weren't nearly as demanding as say "Fallout" then maybe upgrading is the way to go.

Anyway, like I said he needs to be more specific about his needs, expectations and budget.
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a c 164 U Graphics card
August 31, 2011 9:52:45 PM

Quote:
no, that was intended for you...:D 


Thanks for clearing that up.

Anyway, the point of this thread is to help the guy that started it and not flame people for simple mistakes.
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a c 164 U Graphics card
August 31, 2011 10:14:03 PM

Tonybruce,

After reading this thread through again, I thought I should make some points:

1) There is always a bottleneck in a system. For games, it's mainly the CPU or Graphics card.

2) An older CPU like you have now would bottleneck most gaming video cards, so you'd really need to upgrade it.

3) Next, you'd have to decide on how much to spend on the graphics card. If the CPU could support, say, a GTX560Ti which cost $230 you'd have to decide if that was too much.

4) Games vary in the amount of CPU they use.

5) To restate, if you spend too much on the CPU and not enough on the graphics card you'll be bottlenecked by the graphics card. The reverse is true. A $200 graphics card would be severely bottlenecked by your CPU.

Summary:
The goal of upgrading a system for the intention of gaming starts in general, with the graphics card. We look at gaming benchmarks for games we will play at the quality, resolution and frame rate we would play them at.

We next look for a CPU that's good enough to not be a bottleneck to the graphics card.

We next look for a Power Supply, if the present one is inadequate to handle the upgrade. We look both at overall WATTAGE, but also the AMPS for the graphics card. We want at least 1.25x the rating of the graphics cards. For example, a GTX570 might use 38Amps so I'd maybe recommend a 48Amps or more PSU (Amps on the +12V rail or rails. Often printed right on the side of the PSU.)

Finally, we add up the total cost and decide on one of the following:
1) Yes, it's worth the money to me to upgrade.
2) No, it's too much I'll keep my current system for now.
3) No, I think I'm better off building a new system.
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a b U Graphics card
September 1, 2011 9:18:06 AM

photonboy said:
ps3hacker12:

Don't be such a jerk.

First of all, I accidentally missed his answer to what motherboard he had. I had an X2-4800+ on an S939. Obviously if I had seen his answer I would have Google'd it and found out it was not an S939.

Second of all, I said I wasn't sure and that I would help him if it wasn't S939.

People can make misteaks but a jerk is a jerk and the following comment from you is simply rude:

"in either case any info from you here on out is null and void."

If you're going to be a jerk, why don't you read through the entire article and flame the guys who are making idiotic comments that don't even help like "columbian coke" or even this comment made about YOU:

"bro, it's already been decided that he is an idiot...
that's why he hasn't been back."

I've never been anything but professional, and your comment is far from the worst I've seen but I am getting fed up with people being so quick to criticize.

There is a code of conduct for Internet posting and chatting that states that we should never type anything on the Internet that we wouldn't say in a polite conversation.

I'd like people to adhere to this code (this includes "malmental" who was more rude, just not to me.)


lol what? those qoutes are from malmental/greghome :p 
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a c 164 U Graphics card
September 5, 2011 6:42:32 AM

I will only comment to Tonybruce:

Tonybruce,
If my comment above makes sense then I can help further. The main difficulty is deciding what CPU would not bottleneck a particular graphics card. If you spent $300 on the CPU and Graphics, for example the split should likely be $120 CPU and $180 but that's a rough estimate and doesn't factor the Power Supply.

I think you'll find the cost easily jump over $400 so I can't help further unless you make a decision based on my above comment.
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a c 164 U Graphics card
September 5, 2011 6:44:24 AM

... and $180 for GRAPHICS

(sorry, I couldn't edit my above comment)
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a c 173 U Graphics card
September 5, 2011 12:55:15 PM

:lol: 

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September 10, 2011 12:45:30 PM

What I ended up doing was getting a Phenom II X3 720. My friend was giving me a Geforce GTS 450 so thats why I started this thread I just wanted to make sure I would be able to use that graphics card. I am very glad you guys told me that I needed a CPU upgrade and the phenom I was able to find pretty cheaply. My next goal will be to upgrade my mobo since it cannot support cpus higher than the phenom II. I have a couple extra case fans installed so I am wondering whether I should try overclocking the phenom 720.

I suppose my main question is, will I have issues with bottlenecking with this combination? (phenom II X3 720 and Geforce GTS 450)
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September 10, 2011 2:18:48 PM

Also to answer some questions about the games I want to play:

Batman Arkham City
Deus Ex: HR
Fallout
Borderlands (2)
The Old Republic
Diablo 3

I understand I wont have optimal graphics but I have no problem turning down textures and shadows. Ive been playing off a laptop for the last 4 years so Im used to subpar graphics
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a c 164 U Graphics card
September 10, 2011 9:07:49 PM

PhysX:

Don't use PhysX. It will lower your framerate so you'd have to choose between PhysX or lowering other game settings to keep a playable frame rate.

The only time that I would use PhysX would be if enabling it did not drop me below 60FPS (my screen limit which is synched with VSYNC to avoid screen tearing.)

If you want to see the difference try running the Mafia 2 demo and observer frame rates with PhysX on and off and the benefits offered. There is a BENCHMARK MODE.

And again, you'll really need to tweak with your settings such as:
- screen resolution
- AA
- Shadows
- Bloom

Basically, if you can't max out a game you should run FRAPS to assist you and look at the frame rates and screen quality. Most shooters and action games should be 40+ FPS. Some games look fine at only 30FPS.

Games you mentioned:
Most of those games run quite well overall. Batman AA in particular is well coded. If you don't have an XBox 360 controller for PC I'd definitely get one for it and a few other games. You may wish to consider the WIRED version as its cheaper and the wireless version receiver is highly prone to failure (and can't be purchased separately). I got the Logitech F710 wireless but it has a few issues and I'd rather have the wired XBox 360 controller instead.

Good luck, and have fun!
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a c 173 U Graphics card
September 11, 2011 3:29:43 AM

physx is still running as it is the physics in the game. It is not like there is a choice between physx or havoc for the same game as that is a lot of work for the programmers on top of the company having to purchase the license to use havoc. The only thing that changes when you hit the idiot option thinking that it is off when it is still actually running but with a very much reduced setting allowing for the perception of increased performance.
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a c 164 U Graphics card
September 12, 2011 12:01:21 AM

PhysX:
I can't speak for every game, but several have different levels of PhysX which tax the GPU differing amounts.

In other words "HIGH" PhysX will cause more physics calculations but a lower frame rate than "LOW" PhysX.

Now it's possible that "OFF" really means "LOW" but the bottom line is that you have to choose between better PhysX and higher frame rates (or graphics quality) and there's very few people I know that would sacrifice visual quality for better PhysX.

So, I restate that I recommend people that can't get a full 60FPS VSYNC'd should turn PhysX "OFF" if possible.
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a c 164 U Graphics card
September 12, 2011 12:27:05 AM

"Eyefinity with 6870 paired physX with GTS 250"

NVidia doesn't support PhysX if a non-NVidia card is found in your system. You'd need to have hacked NVidia drivers for this to work.

"decent dedicated card for a physX set-up leaves no worries.."

Actually, that's not true. They tested many different combinations of cards specifically to test this and discovered that in almost EVERY case the frame rate was LOWER with a dedicated card than it was using the single card.

The ONLY exception they found in this test was pairing a GTX580 with a GTX570 (570 as the dedicated PhysX card) and who would do that?

So the dedicated PhysX card in reality appears not to work.

PhysX and Batman AA:
I tried three games, including Batman AA to conduct an experiment. NVidia claims that for those people without NVidia cards that PhysX will work on the CPU (but at a limited number of calculations).

Here's the odd thing:
In every game I tried enabling PhysX on, my frame rates dropped massively and were unplayable (I got 11FPS average in Batman AA instead of 165FPS).

However, none of my CPU cores were at 100%!!

How is it possible that my frame rate drops if my graphics card (HD5870) is unused for PhysX and my CPU isn't the bottleneck either?

The only answer that made sense was that NVidia somehow had things coded to do that. I don't know how, but those are the facts.
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a c 164 U Graphics card
September 12, 2011 1:26:53 AM

Interesting PhysX video about dedicted graphics card:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbww3dhzK0M

Video highlights:
1. GTX580 (by itself) 49.7FPS
2. GTX580 + GTX560Ti 55.3FPS

That is 11% faster with the GTX560Ti, which is still a pretty powerful card so that's not a huge benefit.

In the video we see the 8600GT (I think) actually LOWERED the frame rate to around 30FPS.

So frame rates CAN be increased, but be sure to run a couple benchmarks to be sure you aren't lowering your frame rate. And of course there's the extra noise and heat..
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September 12, 2011 2:30:52 AM

This thread sure does like to loose track of the topic lol. OP stick an aftermarket heatsink before overclocking, extra case fans are good but really you want a better then stock cooler.

Also i read a little about unlocking cpu's before but never done it, sounds cool though you should try it out see if your cpu will let you.

@hybrid physX debate, i read in some posts the nvidia card needs to be a gts 250 or better before it's worthwhile. This is why I'm not attempting it with my old 8600gts lol.
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a b U Graphics card
September 12, 2011 1:46:51 PM

its actually not that hard to have an AMD/ATI card and have a secondary dedicated PPI, greghome probably means that he has an intel proessor and an AMD/ATI graphics card.

[EDIT]: yeah he does his rig:

Quote:
Little Greg: Core i5-2500@3.5ghz,8GB 1333mhz, MSI P67A-C45,Radeon HD6950 1GB,Total 3TB WD Cav Green, Xigmatek NRP-PC602

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=1987576

Laptop: Athlonx2 QL62, 4GB ddr2, 320GB HDD, Radeon HD3200
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September 12, 2011 5:43:58 PM

benikens said:
This thread sure does like to loose track of the topic lol. OP stick an aftermarket heatsink before overclocking, extra case fans are good but really you want a better then stock cooler.

Also i read a little about unlocking cpu's before but never done it, sounds cool though you should try it out see if your cpu will let you.

@hybrid physX debate, i read in some posts the nvidia card needs to be a gts 250 or better before it's worthwhile. This is why I'm not attempting it with my old 8600gts lol.


I bought a heatsink off of newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

My budget is very limited at the moment since tuition just took a huge chunk out of my wallet. I know this isnt top notch in terms of cooling but would this heatsink allow a 16X multiplier in the Phenom 720? I want to try and push it to 3.2 GHz, but Ill most likely have to wait until I physically try it and run Prime95
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September 12, 2011 5:46:37 PM

Should also note that I got the arctic thermal 5 paste
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September 12, 2011 5:58:54 PM

Quote:
the heatsink and the hyper 212+ are excellent moves amigo....
I'd say your ready to have some fun when the hardware gets here...
I forgot, what's the PSU again.?
are you staying with that 450-watt or have you already upgraded, I do not remember sorry.


Im staying with the 450W for now, I dont think I will have a problem for now as I was reading that I can overclock the cpu up to 16X without an increase in voltage so ill leave it at that. Im looking into getting a new PSU in the next month or so though.

Would it be safe to unlock and overclock? Or should I choose my poison?
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a b U Graphics card
September 13, 2011 7:22:03 AM

Quote:
^
sometimes with a tweak here and there a seem to be bad core can stable out..


yup, i have found that some of these bad cores stop working after 8 months or so but i was still happy just relocked it back to a tri-core when that happened :D 
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September 23, 2011 3:07:54 AM

Just an update I decided to go all out and upgrade everything since this is my first computer and all.

My system now has:
Phenom II X3 720 BE
MB ASUS SABERTOOTH 990FX AM3+ Mobo
8 GB of DDR3
Powercooler Radeon HD 6850 Graphics card
Hyper 212+ Cooler
PSU CORSAIR 750W

I think I am going to wait until the Bulldozer comes out before I upgrade my phenom. Until then I am overclocking at 3.2 GHz and very very happy. Thanks for all the help again
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a c 164 U Graphics card
September 23, 2011 11:06:36 PM

tonybruce,

There's a really great tool called RadeonPro which I use for several games to do things, if unsupported in the game:
1) VSYNC
2) Anti-Aliasing

VSYNC is only important if you can run the game above 60FPS so it is in synch with the monitor (avoid screen tearing). It also prevents unneeded frame creation since your monitor likely can only display 60FPS (60Hz) but this is mostly a non-issue for your computer except for older games.

I don't think any of the games you mentioned require this (I first thought you meant the older game "Star Wars the Old Republic" but you likely mean the new MMO. The old SWTOR benefit from forced AA I believe.

Here's an example of an older but still great game:
Deus Ex
(I enabled 8xAA via RadeonPro and I think I also forced VSYNC)

Witcher 1:
I got this working with ATITrayTools as RadeonPro did not work for this game. I also could not get Star Wars The Force Unleashed 1 and 2 to work with AA or VSYNC properly (not a huge loss).

Double VSYNC:
This may benefit you. Some games are capable of running at 30FPS but with VSYNC enabled (again no screen tearing). An ideal candidate for this is a game that runs in the 30's or 40 FPS range. It's a matter of trying it ON or OFF and deciding which you like better. The frame rate should show 30FPS most of the time so you know it is working (don't need FRAPS if using RadeonPro with FPS showing).

Batman AA:
This game is well coded and should run great on your system. If you have the option of enabling PhysX then do NOT do it. My game on an HD5870 went from average 165FPS to 11FPS (yep 165 to 11).

Good luck!
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a c 164 U Graphics card
September 23, 2011 11:11:16 PM

XBox 360 controller:

I should add that Batman AA really needs an XBox 360 PC controller. I had a wired one and the USB receiver failed. I then found out this was relatively common and also that I had to replace the enter controller+receiver as they stopped making individual receivers (WHAT?).

I then got a Logitech F710 which was okay with great battery life but I preferred the XBox controller. I discovered that Vibration wasn't working about 90% of the time. I reinstalled Windows 7 64-bit (for a different reason) and now my Logitech F710 wouldn't install. I had to "force" it to work with Microsoft's XBox 360 drivers not Logitech's. Now it's the same, but the Vibration still does not work properly.

My advice is this:
Get a WIRED, Microsoft XBox 360 controller for the PC for about $30.
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a b U Graphics card
September 24, 2011 4:09:32 PM

i hate the 360 controller, bought one because of all the positive things ive heard about it, too too darn big/doesnt have rechargable batteries, i much prefer my USB connectable PS3 controller .
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a b U Graphics card
September 24, 2011 6:53:19 PM

Quote:
the 360 controller does have rechargable batteries.
you need to buy the wireless adapter for the pc and buy a plug and charge kit ;) 


exactly...you have to buy something separately... and there are drivers avaiable for it...:
http://www.motioninjoy.com/

tada!
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a c 164 U Graphics card
September 25, 2011 6:18:18 PM

XBox 360 controller summary:

1) It's easy to accidentally get the incorrect wireless version. You need the "PC" version which has a USB receiver.

2) This USB receiver has a relatively high failure rate and replacing the $60 to $75 set of Controller + Receiver is the only option.

3) The XBox 360 controllers are the SAME as the XBox 360's and fully compatible. The only difference is the USB receiver needed for the wireless version to work with the PC.

4) I recommend getting ONLY the official XBox 360 controller (wired or wireless).

5) PS3 controller?
- The button's don't have the same icons so when a game says press "BLUE X" what will you do?
- I dislike the placement of the thumb sticks. I find the XBox 360's give me better control overall.
- I'm not even sure it's fully compatible.

6) Wireless version: I think it's better to get your own rechargeable batteries and charger. I got an Eneloop kit on sale at NCIX for cheap with 4xAA
s. If I needed to put new batteries in, I paused the game swapped in the 2xAA's I had charged and put the old ones in a charger (four hours to charge).

Summary:
Consider the WIRED, XBox 360 controller.
(Fully compatible, cheaper than wireless, cheaper again with no batteries, and again the USB receiver for the wireless version is known to fail requiring you to spend up to $80 with shipping/tax for a new set.)
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a c 164 U Graphics card
September 25, 2011 6:46:32 PM

SALE AT NCIX USA online:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=62195&vpn=11...

This Sapphire HD6950 2GB is a little too expensive IMO normally but it's on sale now for $270 with a free copy of Deus Ex Human Revolution.

(the XFX card is $40 cheaper but the Sapphire has a much better cooling solution and probably its overall quality is higher.)
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a c 164 U Graphics card
September 25, 2011 6:54:25 PM

http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?cid=1...

The card I linked you to seems to be the "Dirt 3" version at Sapphire's site if the cooling solution is the same (I went by the picture's provided). It made me wonder if you could substitute Dirt 3 for Deus Ex HR if you wanted?
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a c 164 U Graphics card
September 25, 2011 6:57:32 PM

Sorry, wrong thread!
Sorry, wrong thread!

Ignore my last couple comments. I'll delete them if possible..
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!