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Best Lie (Buy) wireless help

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April 23, 2005 6:16:39 PM

Sorry this isn't a technical issue but I had to share it with you all.
My brother lives in Philly
- He is a great machinist but not so savvy with networking
- Her recently got a laptop with 802.11g so he and his wife could do their computing wherever
- I suggested he try Best Buy and look at the offereings there (mentioned Linksys because I own one but whatever would do as well for his purposes)
- He happended to come home with a Linksys and a story
- Sales guy helped him - got the WiFi Router for about $50
- My Bro was happy - then the fun really began
- Sales guy started showing him articles about ID theft and Cantennas and bluesnarfing (not related but scary)
- Sales guy tells my Bro that to protect himself he should turn on encryption - SOund advice I say although the threat is low but Ok good advice
- Tells my Bro that its good protection but hard to set up and that he should get the "geek Squad" to do it.
- My bro is a little wary and askes how much to turn this great feature on?
- $150.00 should do it they say.
- He blinks a couple of times and gives me a call before leaving the store.
- I tell him that we can do it over the phone in like 2 minutes if we talk slow and all I want is to punch this "posser geeks" lights out.

Let me tell you I hate spammers and phishers and all bastards who cruise the internet looking to exploit folks but let me tell you that Best Lie (may new name for them - sorry for the generalization but they have to do something really great for me now to wipe this away) is now right up there with them.
Sorry for the rant but it really pissed me off :mad: 

More about : lie buy wireless

April 23, 2005 11:44:47 PM

best buy sucks a fat one man, ive got a a few stories of their crap. i only buy movies or cds when they are on sale there. i will never buy anything else from them.

go tell your alien brothers, that ronnie cordova says they're gay!!! <A HREF="http://sockbaby.com" target="_new"> sock baby </A>
April 25, 2005 1:16:09 AM

Ok, I understand what you're saying.. but realize that the 17 year old kid who thinks he's cool because he's working in the computer section is going to try to over explain things to make people buy extra. He probably gets some kick back like a gift certificate if they sell enough geek squad services.
If someone walks into a store wanting to buy something, the guy at least explained the risks of it.. yeah he went over board, but it's also a business.
It's not the guy's fault for your brother's lack of research on what he wanted.. you should research stuff before you buy it..
Luckily, he called you before he went any further.

Riser
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April 25, 2005 7:00:40 AM

Are you freakin kidding me....
Blatently telling my brother it was a difficult thing to accomplish was a lie at best and fraud (a stretch) at worst. Businesses that engage in, or allow their employee reps to engage in , practices like that to sell ridiculously priced services should be visited by the bunko squad.
There is no excuse for it and you useing the word "realize" doesn't for an instant make any part of it legitimate. In fact since then my brother has returned the LInksys router, lodged a complaint with customer services at Best Lie, and purchesed the exact same product from Newegg.
Your statement implying that it is somehow my brothers fault because he didn't fully research the ins and outs of WEP or AES is close to total bull%^&*.
I suppose you blame old couples who bought there computers from QVC to stay in touch with family in this new age, for clicking a link in a spamed email.
The guy didn't explain the risks. He mentioned the threat and used only that in his speech. That is very different. The ethical and correct thing to do would have been to tell the consumer that the procdure to set up the encryption feature is in the manual. There is no reason to do what he did.
You can't make this sound any better or somehow make it a justified act with the reasoning you use. The sales person was wrong and Best Lie agreed since they had the sales person apologise to my brother for misleading him.
He still returned the router.
April 25, 2005 11:58:07 AM

Take a business class or two and calm down for christ's sake. It's a retail establishment and if your offended by that you should never ever buy anything from a retail shop or any place that you talk to a salesperson. Good lord. Much ado about nothing. As a consumer educate yourself before you buy something and you won't have to worry about being misled, as if Best Buy is unique in this regard. Gimmie a break
April 25, 2005 12:21:43 PM

Hey, I don't care if you think I am over reacting. To my way of thinking trying to charge 150.00 bucks for a "geek squad expert" to put in a passphrase in two places is huge rip off. It makes me wonder how many other consumers have been screwed by this fraudulent crap.
If you want to support that or condone it that's your business, but to say its good economic practice or that because "its a retail establishment" its somehow beyond reproach is warped.
I agree you should educate yourself and my brother did read up in routers, but he didn't research identity theft, of spamming, or phishing except for what he read in the paper. The sales person used the same line in his speal that a phisher uses in a spammed email to get you to click that link, he played on fears.
So far Best Lie is the only place I have heard it happining in and while I agree that it probably happens elsewhere I wouldn't just shrug it off and blame the consumer. Oh here's your break I do remember the tactic in business class that said do whatever you can to get as much money from the poor dumb stupid consumer. I think you might need a refresher course or two as well.
I have been to a few "retail" establishments in my time and I am never "offended" by that term as you suggest incorrectly. Im quite certain that this type of transaction does not fit into normal or acceptable business practice.
You are entitled to your opinion
April 25, 2005 2:22:02 PM

I do apologize for posting this here. The dialog that has ensued has little if anything to do with WIRELESS and really belongs in OTHER or some other forum.
April 25, 2005 2:36:37 PM

Well, $150 for doing something that your brother didn't know how to do or know about.. He didn't know how to do it, so having the geek squad do it was reasonable to the sales guy. My normal rate for consulting ranges from $85-$150/hr billed in quarter hours, first hour full price.
But at least Best Buy has a big business name behind it where they guarentee their work, probably higher than I or any other independent contractor could do. They have to make their money, plus it's a reasonable charge to have someone drive out to the home to do it.

Regarding the old people who click the spam link. Yes, it's their fault. They clicked the link. Are they to blame, yes. Was it their fault? Yes. There is no other way of looking at it.

Ever get pulled over by a police officer and tell them that you didn't know the speed limit or you weren't aware of a law they just told you about?
You'll hear that ignorance isn't an excuse.

Best Buy is a business, the largest of it's kind. They sell their product. They didn't force your brother to buy the services being sold. People are lazy and stupid and need to take the time to understand things they're doing instead of relying on everyone else to inform them.

I'm sure Best Buy apologized because because it's easier to resolve the issue that way. Maybe the Sales person realized your brother didn't know enough and was just trying to make sure he was secure. You don't know and you shouldn't come around complaining about it because people are going to say it's not the sales person's fault for selling stuff.

Riser
April 25, 2005 4:15:55 PM

Quote:
Well, $150 for doing something that your brother didn't know how to do or know about.. He didn't know how to do it, so having the geek squad do it was reasonable to the sales guy. My normal rate for consulting ranges from $85-$150/hr billed in quarter hours, first hour full price.

I don't care what is reasonable to the sales guy and I am not going to try and second guess his motivations here. You are a consultant. Fine. People may call you for any number of reasons. I would be willing to guess manytimes it is by frustrated people who can't seem to interpert the manual they recieved with a product. Maybe they are stupid or maybe they just don't share the modern technical lexicon. Whatever, that is a legitimate use for a consulting service and for that people should pay the prescribed rate. Its called Willingness to Pay and it is soundly proper in economic terms. you set your prices by what the Market will bear. That's fine. You probably don't work at the point of sale.
Retail stores sell products and services sure. Best Lie sold someone a product. As I said my brother did some homework and knew, generally, the type of device he needed. Normally the product is brought home from a retail establishment and the consumer has a chance to examine the documentation provided by the manufacturer as part of the purchase. At that time if a consumer decided they cannot or do not wish to perform additional configuration items themselves they can avail themselves of services, like yours or the geek squad.
Quote:
But at least Best Buy has a big business name behind it where they guarentee their work, probably higher than I or any other independent contractor could do. They have to make their money, plus it's a reasonable charge to have someone drive out to the home to do it.

They jumped in (or at least the sales persone did) using unetical scare tactics before the customer left the store to examine his item. Sure they are in business to make money. I'm not saying that they are not. But it was an attempted con no mater how you look at it and that is illegal.
Quote:
Regarding the old people who click the spam link. Yes, it's their fault. They clicked the link. Are they to blame, yes. Was it their fault? Yes. There is no other way of looking at it.

Are you saying that the blame rests on the victim? I find it appaling (and a sign of the times) that someone who claims to now the business world knows so little about the law. They arrest scammers and put them in jail not the victims of crimes. There are many twisted individuals you prey on unwarry netizens they are not some noble breed who deserve all the stolen cash they get. They are criminals and they are traveling the same twisted ethics road the Best Lie sales person has started down.
Quote:
Ever get pulled over by a police officer and tell them that you didn't know the speed limit or you weren't aware of a law they just told you about?
You'll hear that ignorance isn't an excuse.

If I knowingly break a law, which I have for sure - especially speeding, I may try to talk my way out of it but I accept the concequences. We are not even in the same ball park here. What law did the link clicker break? Links are everywhere on the web. The term is almost synomous with internet now. Does ignorance of criminal intent make you any less a victim in a confidence game? The answer is no. If it is discovered teh con men will be held accountable not the victims no matter how uninformed they are. PERIOD.
Quote:
Best Buy is a business, the largest of it's kind. They sell their product. They didn't force your brother to buy the services being sold. People are lazy and stupid and need to take the time to understand things they're doing instead of relying on everyone else to inform them.

I don't know what to say about the last sentance here except that this is just an ignorant statment that seems to make all cyber wrongdoing a victimless crime that requires every internet user to become an adept for every piece of technology they own. Its simply ludicrous!
Quote:
I'm sure Best Buy apologized because because it's easier to resolve the issue that way. Maybe the Sales person realized your brother didn't know enough and was just trying to make sure he was secure. You don't know and you shouldn't come around complaining about it because people are going to say it's not the sales person's fault for selling stuff.

Maybe they had the sales person apologize to get him out of the store. Maybe the salesperson was really trying to protect my brother (although he should have said that in his explaination and apology). I don't know the answers to these things but I will continue to "come around" complaining because I simply don't agree with your reasoning here and you certainly haven't even made a dent in my resolve about it. I can blame the sales person for trying to scare a consumer into purchasing services without due diligence being applied. He and Best Lie by proxy were to blame for sure.
April 25, 2005 6:46:04 PM

You need to calm down a little over this. It's really not a big deal what happened to your brother.
He wasn't forced to purchase the geek squad services. He was strongly advised probably, not requested.
No one stopped him from going home to read the literature on his product.
I don't see why you're making such a big deal out of this. The guy was selling a product and also trying to sell the service that he probably wants to get promoted into because it pays more.
I'm sure that sales associate has a big future in used car sales too.
I doubt he used scare tatics. I'm sure he explained the risks and what happens, but apparently it didn't work because your brother didn't jump right into it.

I'm guessing the kid working in the sales department is probably 17-19 years old at that.. which would explain his lack of experience and his tatics used.

As far as old people and links. Yes, it's their fault for what they did and yes, it is wrong that someone took advantage of them.
There is something called "Common Sense." It's just like receiving mail in your mailbox. If you see an ad you just don't go signing up for things and giving your money out right away. Common Sense says you don't do that.

Ignorance isn't an excuse for not knowing the consequences of your actions.. if you buy a wireless product and you don't secure it, it's your fault for 1) not taking appropriate steps to secure yourself and/or 2) for not researching everything you needed to know.
When you make a big purchase, you should know what you're getting into. Ex - When you Rent or Buy a House, a car, a boat, motorcycle, computer, cell phone, etc.
It's your own fault for not knowing enough about what you're buying.. there is no excuse for that.

If someone knowingly is trying to take your money by MISinforming and without result, then it's a CON. The sales guy was just selling a legit service that, as you stated, was needed and was configured by yourself. Did your brother mention that he had someone who was able to help him wit that? Did he even mention he spoke to you about what he needed or that he might talk to you about it and not use the service provided by Best Buy? The sales person probably had no clue that your bro knew someone that could do it for him.
So leave the sales person alone, he was only trying to help your brother.

And as far as refering to Best Buy and Best Lie.. You're ruining the integrity of a store because of the acts of one of the people in the store. Yes, there are horror stories about Best Buy and all this and that. But that same sales person could go over to CompUSA or another store and do the same thing. Does that make that store just as bad at Best Buy?
I'm sure the sales person also learned that he has to work on his communication skills and make things a little more clear.
The person is working at Best Buy for crying out loud. He's not a professional in computers, he's some kid who knows a little about computers, maybe a lot.
He's not a Professional technician by any means, he's a salesperson. He probably doesn't have that Bachelor's of Communication that all Best Buy Sales Rep should have to make their $7.50/hr.

Would you just lighten up and realize that Best Buy employees don't work on commission and the kid had nothing to gain by selling something to your brother? He still gets paid the same amount regardless. Maybe he gets a gift certificate to dinner if he refers 10 people a month to the geek squad. Who knows, no harm done to your brother. At least he exercised some common sense and he's not whining about how someone's use of words makes a company a horrible place to shop and how they teach their employees to lie.

Chill out and end this thread already. My 2 cents are done.
April 25, 2005 11:11:56 PM

I am calm but I haven't been convinced by your argument that this sales person did anything correctly. He didn't force anything on my brother that is true. But he did tell him that setting up the router encryption was a difficult job (see original post if you like) and that falls into one of two categories of wrongdoing:
1 - either he didn't really know how difficult it was and spoke out of turn suggesting the "geeks" do it for him
2 - He knew exactly how to configure the feature in which case he really knew that it was clicking a radio button to enable it and then entering a passphrase to set the key. That is right in the book.
I am making a big deal out if it because the sales person was wrong and I don't understand why you insist he is blameless because young people (and I don't know the age) are allowed to experiment with ethics to the point of exploiting customer relations for maximum profit
I just don't agree with that.
Yes, you are starting to understand my reasoning , used car sales (the non-saturn type) tactics are similar to what was used here to a degree
I will say again, he didn't talk about RISKS he only showed threats. Risk is what remains after threats have be addressed. He didn't talk about the probability of a wireless exploit being run against my bro's home or that Cantennas need line of site or that war driving happens primarily in cities or any of that data that might give the consumer information to make an informed decision. He only showed information about the threat and discussed a countermeasure that he said was difficult to employ.

Im glad you finally agree that victims aren't to bear all the blame in phishing scams and as folks become more aware of the threats and learn to recognize the signs of the fraudlent activity the risks will lessen. Common Sense isn't something we are born with it is learned and no matter what you may believe there are those whose lives don't revolve around things technical, but who do use technology that is so commonly available. The person who understands the technology and decides to prey on those less informed deserves the majority of the blame.
My brother was not totally ignorant before purchesing the router, I have repeatedly stated that before. Just so you know your statement is a double negative and should read "Ignorance is the reason you don't know the consequences of your actions". Ignorance of the law isn't an excuse is the more common expression. That dosen't apply here although I don't know that the sales person was fully aware of his unsavory tactics so I may agree with you on that. Whether he learnes anything depends on if Best Lie brings the point home to him or not. Oh and I wouldn't consider a WiFi router a "Big Purchase" by any stretch. I agree really big purchases tend to drive more detailed research, but come on, really a $50.00 router?
The 2 points you make are true, however there is a time for presales research, which my brother performed (not enough acording to you but he did it) and post sales when you take the product home to install it. The sales person wanted to have my brother purchase services before he did post sales installation. He mislead him by stating specifically that turning on encryprion was a difficult task which it is NOT.
I didn't state that the service was legit, I said that turning on WEP or more advanced encryption was a good idea so mentioning it to the consumer would be a good thing. I didn't configure anything yet in fact after my brother finally recieved his router from Newegg he setup the router and the encryption all using the manual which he may have done with the Best Lie product too, given the chance.

You speak of Common Sense and I agree that it applies, but what happened to "the customer's always right". You can believe that this sales person was trying to help my brother if you like. He was trying to sell a service that my brother didn't need by trying to rattle him into agreeing. If he was trying to help he should have mentioned that as part of his apology which I understand from my brother put all the blaim on him. The store agreed that what he did was misleading, you on the otherhand seem to want it used in all Best Lie stores or you wouldn't have a problem if it was.
Im not ruining the integrity of this giant retailor by stating one single incident. This is in the noise for them. I simply don't like or agree with the tactics one of their employees used and as a representative of that store they are partially responsible for his actions. They must also decide to fix it or let it continue. Yes there are lots of stories of bad experiences at may retailers. This one happens to be one I am familiar with and decided I was PO'ed enough about that I would post. You keep insisting that this Machiavellian sales tactic had to have been used by a young man. I don't know or care about his age and that should have nothing to do with it. To say that because I make $7.50 / hr somehow gives me the right to be underhanded in dealing with consumers dosen't make sence to me. And If he isn't a professional as you state then he should not make statements about how easy or difficult a configuration item is before selling anything. Just let the consumer decide if they want to use it.

Hey I'm just responding to your comments. You deserve a response don't you think? When I see statements that I don't agree with I will post a reply. This was a small incident but it was wrongdoing on the part of a salesperson (I don't know how old he was - you assume 17-19 - I don't know). Whether or not he works on commission has nothing to do with the tactics used. Your point is moot. In both cases they would be wrong. No harm? Well no physical harm but I know its safe to say they lost a customer. I know you'll say who cares. I still walk into Best Lie on occasion if I'm waiting for my wife but buying somthing there won't happen anytime soon. That's just the way it is.
April 26, 2005 12:54:55 PM

I really have no desire to read what you wrote basically because regardless of your argument, I think most people are going to agree with me.

If your brother is going to buy something, he should know what he's going to buy. If he's informed of the risks, he should research what he's told to make an educated purchase himself. He didn't need to buy anything right then and there.
If he didn't know how to configure the encryption, which I assume he probably said he didn't to the sales person, then ideally the sales person would want to refer their services over to him.

As far as the sales person goes, I'm sure they're young and are getting used to the ethics in sales and such. It's an excuse for their sales tatics, but that's how people learn. I don't know about you, but I never took a high school or college class on how to properly sell something since that wasn't my degree.
The sales person was doing what they thought was right. He probably didn't tell all the pros and cons of wireless, but he pointed out the major factors, which are also rare cases, but none-the-less exist.
It was poor practice by the sales person based on lack of experience. But it's also a learning process.
Your brother learned not to believe everything he heard, the sales guy learned that he needs to be more accurate in what he's conveying to a consumer.
Instead of getting mad, why not see this as a learning experience?

Good judgement comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgement.

It's a learning process. Chances are, the sales person won't do that again and your brother will be a little less likely to believe the sales team.

Riser
April 26, 2005 10:21:44 PM

Since the basic point you make is that you only really want to hear your points in this "debate" I don't think it matters if I answer because you never even read my posts. Curious? If you simply want the last word I'm afraid I can not conceed that.
So I will make an executive summary or abstract here to save you the tiresome exercise of actually reading what I have written.
You have on occasion made some valid points which I have agreed to. However, taken as a whole you have mostly created a scenario of your own design that isn't in accordance with events as I have relayed them in previous posts. Details can be found below for any others who, unlike riser, may care to read them.

Quote:
I really have no desire to read what you wrote basically because regardless of your argument, I think most people are going to agree with me.

Well there is no point in me expecting any kind of lucid argument if you only see your side. That's rather presumptous but given your correspondingly weak arguments its expected and therefore fine for you. Take a poll if you like to see if Tom's members agree with you. I certainly can't stop you.
Quote:
If your brother is going to buy something, he should know what he's going to buy. If he's informed of the risks, he should research what he's told to make an educated purchase himself. He didn't need to buy anything right then and there.
If he didn't know how to configure the encryption, which I assume he probably said he didn't to the sales person, then ideally the sales person would want to refer their services over to him.

I have repeatedly stated exactly what occured in this transation but you insist on interjecting contrived events to try and support your argument. Not very useful tactics since you are shown to manufacture circumstances. But I should expect this since it appear that you don't read my posts. You only consider what you have written to be of any importance.
Again, my brother did research although not enough according to you. He knew what he was buying but was surprised by the line of "attack" embarked upon by the sales person.He didn't know how to configure the encryption and when he asked about it the sale person specifically stated that it was difficult (a point you continue to ignore) which is a blatent lie. So the going in position before he had a chance to RTFM at home was that it was too hard for him to do himself. He did ask me later and I told him he was mislead (lied to). You are simply mistaken and you assume only what makes your point which is also wrong.
Quote:
As far as the sales person goes, I'm sure they're young and are getting used to the ethics in sales and such. It's an excuse for their sales tatics, but that's how people learn. I don't know about you, but I never took a high school or college class on how to properly sell something since that wasn't my degree.

Fairplay is related to the Common Sense you so often refer to. He may have been experimenting with boundaries and I hope he learned his lesson because he was proven wrong. However, again, you still assume that the sales person was 17-19. I haven't verified that. Tell me would your argument change if it were a 30 year old salesman?
Quote:
The sales person was doing what they thought was right. He probably didn't tell all the pros and cons of wireless, but he pointed out the major factors, which are also rare cases, but none-the-less exist.

Sorry there you go again. Have you talked to the sales person. Your argument cannot be supported but you continue to assume circumstances that support it no matter how I try to set this record straight for you. You aren't useing the facts or events as I relayed them. You ignore that in favor of a fanciful scenario. I don't know why you continue to do that. Maybe its because you never fully read my posts?
He didn't point out any major factors at all he simply showed articles that mentioned a threat to individual identity and made the correlation to wireless encryption that was too hard for anyone but the Geek Squad to set up.
Quote:
It was poor practice by the sales person based on lack of experience. But it's also a learning process.
Your brother learned not to believe everything he heard, the sales guy learned that he needs to be more accurate in what he's conveying to a consumer.

Again you assume he was young and that lack of experience was at the root of him doing it in the first place. Again, you manufacture fact where only assumption exists. Yes, however old this person was I do hope he learned from this and truly meant his apology which the store insisted he provide.
My brother already knew that, which is why he hesitated so strongly when $150.00 was mentioned as the fee for enabling the WEP or advanced encryption. I hope the sales guy did learn not to be deceptive too.
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Instead of getting mad, why not see this as a learning experience?

I am not mad. However, I have yet to see a reason for abandoning my views about this issue. But since you won't read this (and probably haven't read any of the other posts in detail)I don't beleive I should expect you to do anything except produce another reply based soley on your points.
Quote:
Good judgement comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgement.

There is some truth in this saying. However, I don't believe that all experience comes from bad judgement. Some people can learn a lot from doing things correctly on the first attempt. It happens all the time.
April 27, 2005 1:46:27 PM

Ok, the kid was using his knowledge and lack of experience to sell something, right or wrong in anyone's opinion. It's the consumer's problem to be informed before making a purchase.
The sales person did what he's getting paid to do, sell stuff. Regardless of what was said, it sounds that everything he said was true, that can't be argued. He didn't tell everything about it, but he wasn't concerned on that.

I honestly would hate to see how you would react if something serious actually happened to you.

The sales person was trying to sell something to someone who was convinced they wanted something that obviously didn't know about the CONs, only the PROs.

Leave it be, this is over with. Sales people sell stuff.

Your post should have been on the BBB for business ethics and not on a Wireless Forum.

Riser
April 27, 2005 11:04:50 PM

Well I guess it's true you really don't read the posts you respond to, at least in my case. You did warn me so now at least I know you are truly uninterested in any opinion but your own.
Quote:
Ok, the kid was using his knowledge and lack of experience to sell something, right or wrong in anyone's opinion. It's the consumer's problem to be informed before making a purchase.

Ok maybe you will see this now. <font color=blue>You and your situational ethics might call it "stretching the truth" but in the rest of the free world... HE LIED - TELLING MY BROTHER OR ANYONE ELSE FOR THAT MATTER THAT SETTING UP WEP OR SOME OTHER ENCRYPTION SCHEME IN A WiFi ENVIRONMENT IS TOO DIFFICULT FOR HIM ISN'T USEING KNOWLEDGE OR EXPERIENCE IN A TRUTHFUL WAY AT ALL.</font color=blue>
If the manufacturer chooses to place instructions in a users manual (which the sales person- of whatever age BTW-neglected to mention)then it is not too difficult to do and that is a fact period.
The consumer needs to be informed that is true and my brother did research but he didn't know enough during the conversation to know that he was being lied to.

Quote:
I honestly would hate to see how you would react if something serious actually happened to you.

What do you consider serious? I honestly can't figure that out from anything that you said now or previously. I have had many altercations with retailers in the past and I have also been scammed on ebay on items that I am very familiar with so my knowledge made no difference. However, I can say that in every case but one, and I won't go into it, I have found a way to recover my loss and let the person responsible know they messed with the wrong guy and that includes spammers, at least the ones I could track.
What does this have to do with anything anyway. It certainly has little to do with the transaction at BL.

Quote:
The sales person was trying to sell something to someone who was convinced they wanted something that obviously didn't know about the CONs, only the PROs

Im sorry but your english is a bit confusing. What something didn't know about the Pro's and Con's? The router he purchased didn't know anything I do agree with that. If you are trying to refer to my brother well he didn't expect to be lied to and I do conceed that he didn't, and I dare say still dosen't, know all there is to know about wireless routers.
You really make it hard to "leave it be" as you demand. The fact that you only listen to yourself in these one way converastions may be tiring to some but I find it pretty amusing. So keep it comming if you like. I will continue to provide facts as my brother relayed them to me and you will provide the fantasy and assumption so you can see your response count go up for no reason whatsoever.

Quote:
Your post should have been on the BBB for business ethics and not on a Wireless Forum.

Well, now its complete you finally made an observation that proves you never read anything people post that may show a disagreement with your position. I won't even mention that I already stated almost that very same thing and I apologised for doing it. Whoops I guess I did mention it, sorry.
April 28, 2005 12:54:22 PM

This thread has become worthless to the forum.

Maybe you should post your ideas in the forums designated for this kind of complaining?

Next time your bro trys to buy something for his computer, have him talk to you and research his stuff. The vendor's website normally has good information on the stuff.

I told a guy who was in his 30s, fairly tech savvy that setting up WEP was easy. He didn't think so, he found it fairly hard because he wasn't aware of the terms used, he was fairly unfamiliar with wireless. I set it up for him, explained it. He said he wouldn't have been able to figure it out.
If he didn't know WEP it probably would be hard for him to setup, obviously he didn't know how to set it up, which is why this happened.

Now be quiet about it or go post your flames in the forum dedicated for this. You can keep posting and this and that, but you're wasting your breath. And trust me, no one else cares about this thread, including myself. I will no longer humor you and post back, or even read anything you post back.

Byebye.
April 28, 2005 3:21:03 PM

you are both idiots.

go tell your alien brothers, that ronnie cordova says they're gay!!! <A HREF="http://sockbaby.com" target="_new"> sock baby </A>
April 28, 2005 10:39:30 PM

Well since you won't read this I guess I'll just respond because I hate to leave anything unfinished.

Geez, Riser, it was always worthless to Tom's and wireless. I said as much in the very first sentence. Your responses caused me to keep replying and as I said a few post back I wish I never posted here and apologized.

Like I said my bro did research but your advice is good. The question is like any other decision how much is enough. Dollar value sometimes drives that. I guess since you seemed to think that $50.00 was a very big purchase you would suggest that a class in wireless security at the local college is advised. Ok.

Well I can't comment on that 30 year old. However, given the chance (as I mentioned before) my brother (a machinist by trade) read the manual he received with the router from Newegg (after returning the wifi router to BL) and was able to set up encryption without calling me. I mean it's not in the section surrounded by warnings and caveats about danger (like flashing the firmware) as the sales guy would have you beleive with the lie he told.

He didn't know then but he read the manual and now he does, imagine that?

Like I said I never wanted it to get out of hand but with your help it appears it did. I just don't like assumption to ever take the place of fact. That's kind of why I chose science as a profession. I will post if I am forced to keep explaining the facts over and over again. That has been the case to this point.

I know no one cares that's not the point of my posts here. If you don't care then blow it off because you certainly aren't doing anything constructive by posting here.

You didn't humor me much but I have to say you did make me loose some more hair because I was scratching my head a lot trying to figure out what your point was and where the fantasy was coming from.

Ciao
April 28, 2005 10:41:12 PM

Now there is the most truthfull statment yet!
Thanks
I will sleep well now......
!