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Is it safe to replace a cpu inside the case?

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January 30, 2012 12:20:27 PM

I bought a new cpu but I'm not really good at building computers. So I don't really have the skill to take the motherboard out and install the cpu. I have enough space to be able to do the job but is it safe? Thanks!
a b à CPUs
January 30, 2012 12:27:10 PM

Yes, as long as you have enough room to move around. Please PM me if you have any issues. but yea you should be fine, i do it when i changed out parts. put the motherboard and work inside the case. instead of putting every single component on the board then putting the motherboard in.
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January 30, 2012 12:39:19 PM

Rockdpm said:
Yes, as long as you have enough room to move around. Please PM me if you have any issues. but yea you should be fine, i do it when i changed out parts. put the motherboard and work inside the case. instead of putting every single component on the board then putting the motherboard in.

Ok thanks. Also, should I lay the computer flat or keep it upright?
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January 30, 2012 12:41:59 PM

The one time I tried it I accidently pulled the socket up out of the motherboard trying to get the heatsink off. But hey, it gave me a chance to upgrade further. I always remove everything and take my time now.
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January 30, 2012 12:47:15 PM

I would advise laying the case flat to do it if you are going to do it in the case. Just make sure you don't drop anything on the board.
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January 30, 2012 12:50:47 PM

Its fine to do it inside the PC, make sure its flat so you have wide view of everything and dont accidentily break something, but even with no experience in it you will be fine, also when its flat you can just let the cpu fall in (not literaly) without any hassle.

Good luck
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January 30, 2012 1:45:00 PM

Also one more question. How much thermal paste should I put and how should I apply it
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January 30, 2012 2:16:38 PM

I used a bit less then a pea sized drop for my 212+ evo, it gets to 20c min and 33c max

if you are having trouble getting the heatsink off of the cpu, dont force it, wiggle it a little bit then pull with not to much force if that doesnt work or you simple cant wiggle it power it on, run prime 95 for about 5 min and try again :) 
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January 30, 2012 4:01:31 PM

Ok do I need to spread it though?
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a b à CPUs
January 30, 2012 4:06:07 PM

Nope the heatsink will spread it naturally under its own weight :) 

just put the dot in the middle of the proc and your good to go
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January 30, 2012 4:23:37 PM

mouse24 said:
Nope the heatsink will spread it naturally under its own weight :) 

just put the dot in the middle of the proc and your good to go

Ok and do I put the thermal paste on before or after I put the cpu in the socket. Sorry about alll the questions I'm not rich and don't wana mess up
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a b à CPUs
January 30, 2012 4:30:27 PM

put the cpu on the socket first, try not to overpushed the heatsink
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a b à CPUs
January 30, 2012 4:33:15 PM

After its in the socket and secured down, pretty sure there is a video on youtube of it :) 
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January 30, 2012 4:45:27 PM

mouse24 said:
Nope the heatsink will spread it naturally under its own weight :) 

just put the dot in the middle of the proc and your good to go


Hi :) 

I am sorry but thats ABSOLUTELY AND TOTALLY WRONG !

I own computer shops and a lappy repair company....

If any of my employees did what you said they would be sacked on the spot...

The purpose of Cpu cement is to fill ANY small imperfections in the cpu and on the heatsink....

You put a very small pea size lump in the middle and then SPREAD IT OUT EVENLY so it covers the WHOLE CPU AND HEATSINK in a very thin layer...we use something that looks like a credit card (plastic) to spread it...evenly...

I hope this helps....

All the best Brett :) 
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January 30, 2012 5:15:12 PM

Brett928S2 said:
Hi :) 

I am sorry but thats ABSOLUTELY AND TOTALLY WRONG !

I own computer shops and a lappy repair company....

If any of my employees did what you said they would be sacked on the spot...

The purpose of Cpu cement is to fill ANY small imperfections in the cpu and on the heatsink....

You put a very small pea size lump in the middle and then SPREAD IT OUT EVENLY so it covers the WHOLE CPU AND HEATSINK in a very thin layer...we use something that looks like a credit card (plastic) to spread it...evenly...

I hope this helps....

All the best Brett :) 



Uhm, then you have fired alot of people that know what they are doing... you do realise that the purpose of thermal paste is to get an even heat transfer between the cpu and the heatsink via filling in the micro crevices right? what you have done is created air bubbles

The accepted method I have described in my previous post fills in most if not all micro crevices and does not allow air bubbles as the air simply gets pushed out
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January 30, 2012 6:39:58 PM

Hi :) 

I have owned computer companies for longer than most of you have lived....

You SPREAD it EVENLY to COVER IT ALL...

Air bubbles...lollllllllllllllllll

All the best Brett :) 
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a c 146 à CPUs
January 30, 2012 6:43:02 PM

Please tell me the name of your company so I know to never bring my computer to you. If you can't do something as simple as applying thermal paste right I don't want you anywhere near my computers.
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January 30, 2012 6:43:21 PM

Brett928S2 said:
Hi :) 

I have owned computer companies for longer than most of you have lived....

You SPREAD it EVENLY to COVER IT ALL...

Air bubbles...lollllllllllllllllll

All the best Brett :) 


I seriously think you are trolling, the best retort you could come up with to our air bubble inquiry is "lollllllll".

If I saw you spreading it that way you certainly would not get my business again.
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a c 146 à CPUs
January 30, 2012 6:45:38 PM

+1 I agree on both the trolling and never getting my business again.
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January 30, 2012 6:55:39 PM

Hi :) 

I am not trolling...think about the amount of heat, do you really think an air bubble would survive ?

I have used cement on many different cpus going back to 286 cpus, they did NOT look like modern cpus...they had different areas and they all had one thing in common....that area ALL had to be covered...

Its a heat transfer cement...it can hardly transfer anything where it does not exist now can it (where its missing , as not SPREAD)

Regarding business, I deliberately do not use my Companies name in my signature here as I do not consider it to be correct to do so, This is TOMS HARDWARE, not my site...

All the best Brett :) 
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a c 186 à CPUs
January 30, 2012 6:59:08 PM

Brett928S2 said:
Hi :) 

I am not trolling...think about the amount of heat, do you really think an air bubble would survive ?

I have used cement on many different cpus going back to 286 cpus, they did NOT look like modern cpus...they had different areas and they all had one thing in common....that area ALL had to be covered...

Its a heat transfer cement...it can hardly transfer anything where it does not exist now can it (where its missing , as not SPREAD)

Regarding business, I deliberately do not use my Companies name in my signature here as I do not consider it to be correct to do so, This is TOMS HARDWARE, not my site...

All the best Brett :) 

What I do is put some on the heatsink and some on the cpu, so both the cpu and heatsink both have paste on them.
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January 30, 2012 7:03:45 PM

amuffin said:
What I do is put some on the heatsink and some on the cpu, so both the cpu and heatsink both have paste on them.


Hi :) 

And do you spread it or leave it in a small lump in the middle ?

All the best Brett :) 
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a c 146 à CPUs
January 30, 2012 7:06:28 PM

I've always used the way pictured and described on IC Diamonds website. A dot about 5.0-5.5mm on the CPU heat spreader then clamp down the heatsink.
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a c 186 à CPUs
January 30, 2012 7:08:01 PM

Brett928S2 said:
Hi :) 

And do you spread it or leave it in a small lump in the middle ?

All the best Brett :) 

The weight of the heatsink spreads it out, spreading it out manually is not a good idea.
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January 30, 2012 7:11:34 PM

rds1220 said:
I've always used the way pictured and described on IC Diamonds website. A dot about 5.0-5.5mm on the CPU heat spreader then clamp down the heatsink.


Hi :) 

Oh I believe you do it that way, but I also believe you are doing it incorrectly....

What about the parts your "compression" method does not reach ?

Those gaps, and there will be some cannot transfer heat to the heatsink directly through the thermal cement...

How would you have done it on some of the older cpus where your method would not even have covered 20% of the cpu ?

All the best Brett :) 
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a c 146 à CPUs
January 30, 2012 7:24:11 PM

I have yet to have any problems with coverage or temps. I did that method with an old Pentium 4, I5 and PhenomII and all times the thermal paste covered the cores and gives great temps. Again look at that video. Using the pressure of the heatsink gives even spreading and no air bubbles. Your way of doing it clearly shows air bubbles and that will effect temperatures. Also every millimeter of the heat spreader doesn't have to be coves. The most important thing is covering the cores. I really feel sorry for the suckers who bring their computers to you to be fixed.
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January 30, 2012 7:37:21 PM

rds1220 said:
I have yet to have any problems with coverage or temps. I did that method with an old Pentium 4, I5 and PhenomII and all times the thermal paste covered the cores and gives great temps. Again look at that video. Using the pressure of the heatsink gives even spreading and no air bubbles. Your way of doing it clearly shows air bubbles and that will effect temperatures. Also every millimeter of the heat spreader doesn't have to be coves. The most important thing is covering the cores. I really feel sorry for the suckers who bring their computers to you to be fixed.



Hi :) 

You have some reason for NOT listening to your elders, who run businesses and whom know a lot more than you obviously ?

My company has built tens of thousands of machines over the years.... how many have you built ?

Let me guess, before you built your first machine you watched a video of it on YouTube :)  :) 

I am always amazed that just because people see something on YouTube they think that it makes it real...if you saw people jumping over a cliff like Lemmings , WOULD YOU DO IT AS WELL ?

I was building machines BEFORE the net existed properly, and YouTube DID NOT EXIST...

All the best Brett :) 
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a c 146 à CPUs
January 30, 2012 7:43:44 PM

You're right I don't listen especially when I know they are doing it wrong. I guess because you've been building computers for a long time that means you can never be wrong. Are you that vain? With an arrogant know it all attitude like that it's hard to believe you're still in business. Since you don't know what you're doing please stay away from me and my computers. You sound like a arrogant punk that's a walking disaster waiting to happen.
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January 30, 2012 7:49:03 PM

rds1220 said:
You're right I don't listen especially when I know they are doing it wrong. I guess because you've been building computers for a long time that means you can never be wrong. Are you that vain? With an arrogant know it all attitude like that it's hard to believe you're still in business. Since you don't know what you're doing please stay away from me and my computers. You sound like a arrogant punk that's a walking disaster waiting to happen.


Hi :) 

We are not getting anywhere here with your childish attitude....

You do it your way and I will do it mine and I will continue to run various computer and laptop businesses...

There..you won now doesnt that make you feel better :) 

.........................................................................................

To the OP...you have the choice, you can do it his way or the correct way....its up to you :) 

All the best Brett :) 
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January 30, 2012 7:53:28 PM

I have a Phenon ii X4 955 with a ZALMAN CNPS 9700 NT 110mm 2 Ball Ultra Quiet CPU Cooler. I spread my heatsink with a credit card and guess what? my computer still works and even with air bubles i can some how overclock to 4.2Ghz which is about the max you can overclock with air cooling... also it temp never goes above 62C... to bad those air bubbles made such a huge impact.....
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a b à CPUs
January 30, 2012 8:01:21 PM

Spreading with a CC or leaving a small drop in the center and letting compression do the work.... Honestly, who gives a crap? Either work. There are both sides who claim that doing it one way or the other will affect the temperature of the CPU by several degrees. Yet either side can give proof that their method works.

From personal experience, I prefer the drop method because its easiest and less messy. And from personal experience, that method works well. Considering I'm running a E8400 at 4.0 GHz on its stock cooler in a non-AC room, with nominal temps.

And from experience of my friends, some of whom prefer the spread method, it works too. They get high clocks AND low temps.

All this comes down to is ego. "My way is the best way and that is that" is pretty damned closed minded on both sides when others find their method works just as well. How about "My way I know works and that is what I prefer, but if your way works just as well than that is good too."
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January 30, 2012 8:16:25 PM

Brett928S2 said:
...

I am not trolling...think about the amount of heat, do you really think an air bubble would survive ?

...

Its a heat transfer cement...it can hardly transfer anything where it does not exist now can it (where its missing , as not SPREAD)

...



Thermal paste is not used to transfer heat primarily. In a perfect world scenario there would be no space between cpu and heatsink. It would be one seamless part. Thermal paste is there to even out the discrepancies on the surfaces of the cpu/heatsink to make them match as evenly as possible, by filling the "holes".

There was a test (here on Tom's, iirc), that showed that you do not need to have thermal paste all over the place. The most heat is dissipated right in the center of the the cpu. There was no gain in cooling performance if the paste covered everything, even a loss if to much was used or it was unevenly applied.

As for the air "surviving" in a bubble. Now you can't be serious. If it can't get out it will stay where it is and it's a bad heat conductor.

Just because someone is doing if for years, doesn't mean he's doing it right. Maybe it works, maybe it even works fine. But do not neglect the possibility that there is room for improvement.

That being said, topic aside, you're still not accepting that the bean + pressure spreading method gives awesome results, as has been proven. So you are definitively lacking mutual understanding.
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a c 207 à CPUs
January 30, 2012 8:47:18 PM

As there are many different types of coolers, and many different types of TIM (what works best for thick types like IC Diamond is not likely to work best for real thin types) to suggest that there is a single "one size fits all" approach is a bit naive. In addition, as designs have changed from "flat" as being the best surface to slightly curved with newer designs (that's why lapping is now a no-no), what worked best "then" is certainly not what works best "now".

First, manufacturer's put a lot of T & E (time and effort) into research an marketing and if they want their products to sell, they want them to perform well in reviews. So they do test this pre-release and the best way to install any manufacturer's heat sink is likely going to be the way they say in their instructions. Failing that, here's an article from an author who has delved quite heavily into the subject. Don't go looking for the "best" method here as the main focus of the article is , "it depends".

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_conten...
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a b à CPUs
January 30, 2012 8:51:15 PM

The heat plates on CPUs are square. If you put a dot of TP in the center of the square the extruded pattern is round and the corners of the CPU get no paste. Also, how do you know the extruded paste gets all the way to the edge of the heat plate? This "air bubble" thing is a myth probably created by somebody too lazy to do it right. There was a time tiny dies were visible in the center of ceramic and had capacitors and jumper pads all around the perimeter. Applying TP was super critical then and the same technique works fine today. No wonder there are so many questions around here about over heating.
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a b à CPUs
January 30, 2012 8:55:53 PM

Except that the majority of the heat comes from the center of the processor, not the outer edges or corners. If this was such a concern, then manufacturers would but a square thermal pad on the bottom of the heat-sinks they ship with said processors. Either a drop in the center or spreading it works. Why is this so hard to understand? Technology has changed, so do ways of doing things. It doesn't make it any more wrong.

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a c 146 à CPUs
January 30, 2012 8:56:17 PM

As said already the thermal paste doesn't have to cover every millimeter of the CPU heat spreader. The most important thing is that it covers the center where the most heat is and that it covers all the cores.
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a c 227 à CPUs
January 30, 2012 9:16:22 PM

Use the method the manufacturer recommends. Artic Silver recommends everything from a vertical line to a dot to the spread method depending on the CPU you are applying it to. IC Diamond recommends a pea sized dot. Due to the different viscosity of the different pastes there is no single correct way.
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a b à CPUs
January 30, 2012 9:20:54 PM

Believe it or not, the top of the cpu is not actually the top of the cpu, what I'm saying is, directly under that little piece of metal/plastic/whatever-material-that-is is the top of the cpu, the bit you attach to your heatsink is just a heatspreader (not a very effective one)

True you want an even appliance of TIM but really, air bubbles are bad we all know this basically an air bubble is not conducting the heat EFFECTIVELY to the heatsink sure it does SOME but not ENOUGH

My socket was a bit off on my current build (athlon 2 x3) so the heatsink was only covering about 85% of it... the max temp I have seen my proc go after 2 hours of prime 95 is around 33c with a hyper 212+ evo on the lowest setting possible where my ambients are 20-23c

Your comment about not getting full coverage is moot.
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a c 227 à CPUs
January 30, 2012 9:30:02 PM

Brett928S2 said:
Hi :) 

We are not getting anywhere here with your childish attitude....

You do it your way and I will do it mine and I will continue to run various computer and laptop businesses...

There..you won now doesnt that make you feel better :) 

.........................................................................................

To the OP...you have the choice, you can do it his way or the correct way....its up to you :) 

All the best Brett :) 



Seriously in all these posts the only one I see being childish is you. I am sure that because you, "own so many businesses" you have done your own extensive compression testing thus rendering all other testing null and void showing that your way is best.

If you want to actually be taken seriously you might start by not making every forum post look like it comes from a ten year old with computer access for the first time. One emoticon every now and then is justified. Having several in every message just looks unprofessional and childish.
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a b à CPUs
January 30, 2012 9:44:29 PM

Brett928S2 said:
Hi :) 

We are not getting anywhere here with your childish attitude....

You do it your way and I will do it mine and I will continue to run various computer and laptop businesses...

There..you won now doesnt that make you feel better :) 

.........................................................................................

To the OP...you have the choice, you can do it his way or the correct way....its up to you :) 

All the best Brett :) 



"his way or the correct way"
"or the correct way"
"correct way"

PURPOSELY causing air bubbles is NOT the correct way... jeez dude since you own so many computer repair shops you must have loads of TIM and loads of test benches just laying around, please try out all the options, video tape it, and show us how wrong we are.
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a c 116 à CPUs
January 30, 2012 9:48:44 PM

personally i find it depends on the hsf how i put the paste on. if its bare pipes i will spread the paste. if its a solid base i will use a blob in the middle of the cpu the size of a few rice grains... the size of a pea tends to be to much but that depends on the paste... you should always follow the manufacturers guide on how much to apply... (decent paste comes with application instructions)

anyway 1s i apply the paste i press it down firmly and rotate the hsf back and forth till i feel resistance then lock it down.
it may not be the approved method but the temps i get at delivery are always within 1 degree of the benches for that cooler... if there not i will re-apply the paste thicker or thinner till it it does.

but for any1 thats unsure then check out the guides on how to apply it...
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_conten... this is a good article on how to apply the paste to different coolers and surfaces.
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a c 146 à CPUs
January 31, 2012 1:42:39 AM

anort3 said:
Seriously in all these posts the only one I see being childish is you. I am sure that because you, "own so many businesses" you have done your own extensive compression testing thus rendering all other testing null and void showing that your way is best.

If you want to actually be taken seriously you might start by not making every forum post look like it comes from a ten year old with computer access for the first time. One emoticon every now and then is justified. Having several in every message just looks unprofessional and childish.


+1. Hey Brett since you seem to think you're the all knowing god of CPU's why don't you call up Artic Silver and Ic and tell them they're giving bad advice I would love to hear what they have to say. I mean they only make the stuff and have probably done alot more testing than you on how to get the best performance out of the thermal paste they make.
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January 31, 2012 3:22:56 AM

phyco126 said:
Except that the majority of the heat comes from the center of the processor, not the outer edges or corners. If this was such a concern, then manufacturers would but a square thermal pad on the bottom of the heat-sinks they ship with said processors. Either a drop in the center or spreading it works. Why is this so hard to understand? Technology has changed, so do ways of doing things. It doesn't make it any more wrong.



If you're OK with ignoring probably 25% of the surface area of your CPU heat spreader that's fine with me. Personally, I like using 100% of mine. They make it square to give us the maximum area possible. BTW, the technology of thermal conduction hasn't changed but there are always who want to cut corners. Pun intended.
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January 31, 2012 3:27:05 AM

mouse24 said:
Believe it or not, the top of the cpu is not actually the top of the cpu, what I'm saying is, directly under that little piece of metal/plastic/whatever-material-that-is is the top of the cpu, the bit you attach to your heatsink is just a heatspreader (not a very effective one)

True you want an even appliance of TIM but really, air bubbles are bad we all know this basically an air bubble is not conducting the heat EFFECTIVELY to the heatsink sure it does SOME but not ENOUGH

My socket was a bit off on my current build (athlon 2 x3) so the heatsink was only covering about 85% of it... the max temp I have seen my proc go after 2 hours of prime 95 is around 33c with a hyper 212+ evo on the lowest setting possible where my ambients are 20-23c

Your comment about not getting full coverage is moot.



Moot if you don't care about maximum heat transfer. Has it occurred to you that the temps you mentioned might be even better if you had more surface area conducting heat?
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January 31, 2012 5:05:39 AM

I find 13c at max load > ambient temps to be pretty nice, specially for only having stock cooling on a HaF 912

Only covering the middle bits of the cpu is still better then air bubbles, no?

(also its not because of the method I used to apply TIM that made the heatsink go off like 10% of the cpu its simply a bad socket placement... /shrug)
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January 31, 2012 6:26:09 AM

After trying most of the methods to apply thermal compound, I do this:
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_conten...

Works well on both conventional heatsinks and the newer HDT's.

Oh, and a suggestion about removing a stuck heatsink:
Turn on the computer and run Prime 95 or something like that for about 15 minutes. The heat will soften the thermal compound. Turn off the computer, unclamp the heatsink, and twist gently. No need to lift or pry. The heatsink will come off easily.
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a c 146 à CPUs
January 31, 2012 3:30:19 PM

When I have to take off the heatsink that's what I do. It's better then ripping out the CPU from the socket and bending the socket pins.
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