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Wha..? no cell phones on planes?

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June 18, 2005 2:57:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

From CNN...

http://tinyurl.com/cnqx7


--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

More about : wha cell phones planes

June 18, 2005 10:21:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Where I live it was 6/17/2005 11:57 PM, when Jer wrote:
>
> From CNN...
>
> http://tinyurl.com/cnqx7

Something seems a little fishy with Cingular's desire to social
engineer the behavior of flyers by requesting the FAA ban cell phone
calls from airplanes. Wonder what the real reason is? When a company
tries an end run into social engineering I always consider the
possibility that they are trying to create an image of a "caring
company" to hide or smokescreen an unrelated problem.

What's next for Cingular? Banning all cell phone calls on Sunday
until after 12:00 o'clock. :-)
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 10:56:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

> phones lack feedback to the earpiece from the microphone

It's called "Sidetone" BTW.

> you then talk not to one cell but dozens or even hundreds from altitude.

The idea was to create a cell on the plane itself so interefence with
terrestial cell site would not be a problem. Your phone seeks out the
strongest signal.

That being said....as a platinum flyer/million miler, I for one hope
cell phones NEVER are allowed in flight. It would be a nightmare. Can
you imagine just 20% of a 767 talking on phones? Endless, mindless
conversations from bored idiots? It's bad enough now during taxi to
the gate when they ARE allowed! To say that it wouldnt be much worse
than it is now is folly. It guarantee it would be much worse...not to
mention those oh-so-cool "look at me holding mycell like a microphone"
Nextel users!

The airplane is the one place of solace where my (or others) phones
never ring. I like that!

Barry - NY
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Anonymous
June 18, 2005 12:27:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

In article <AsSse.110159$CR5.23045@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
Plan9 <benzplan9@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > http://tinyurl.com/cnqx7
>
> Something seems a little fishy with Cingular's desire to social
> engineer the behavior of flyers by requesting the FAA ban cell phone
> calls from airplanes. Wonder what the real reason is? When a company
> tries an end run into social engineering I always consider the
> possibility that they are trying to create an image of a "caring
> company" to hide or smokescreen an unrelated problem.

Maybe they're working behind the scenes to work a deal to supply airtime
for the airphones on the backs of the seats.
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 3:14:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

> Why are Americans so loud?

Yes. Why cant we be more like Europeans!
Calm...quiet...docile...peaceful. You know...like their soccer
matches!

:p 

Barry - NY
June 18, 2005 3:16:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 22:57:12 -0500, Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:

>
> From CNN...
>
>http://tinyurl.com/cnqx7


Thank you Cingular! The last thing I need is to sit next to some
inconsiderate person talking on the phone as I try to sleep my way
arcoss the company.
June 18, 2005 5:04:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

"Mark" <tigerfan@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:vf08b1ldf6fbkfj85nt75jootenbgu54uc@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 22:57:12 -0500, Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:
>
>>
>> From CNN...
>>
>>http://tinyurl.com/cnqx7
>
>
> Thank you Cingular! The last thing I need is to sit next to some
> inconsiderate person talking on the phone as I try to sleep my way
> arcoss the company.

As opposed to an inconsiderate person talking to the person next to them? Or
worse, me? I can't see where cell phones are going to make it much noiser
than it already is. I put my headphones on and tune it all out.
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 5:04:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Whoa.....it is a very simple electronic problem and not social engineering.
You have a "cell" phone designed to work within a "cell". That is a small
area of coverage from one tower. When you get on an airplane to activate
your phone....you then talk not to one cell but dozens or even hundreds from
altitude. That caused a big problem of how to handle it with the network.

You want good 'cell' service then turn the things off in an airplane,
simple.
June 18, 2005 5:04:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Per JohnF:
>As opposed to an inconsiderate person talking to the person next to them? Or
>worse, me? I can't see where cell phones are going to make it much noiser
>than it already is.

Somewhere read/heard that, unlike regular phones, cell phones lack feedback to
the earpiece from the microphone - so people don't have that subliminal cue to
regulate their voice volume,
--
PeteCresswell
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 8:16:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Simply and politely ask him to quiet. If he does no comply, call the flight
attendant. When in close proximity of others, one should tap (SMS) not
talk. People do that very well in Europe and Asia. Why are Americans so
loud?


"Mark" <tigerfan@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:vf08b1ldf6fbkfj85nt75jootenbgu54uc@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 22:57:12 -0500, Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:
>
>>
>> From CNN...
>>
>>http://tinyurl.com/cnqx7
>
>
> Thank you Cingular! The last thing I need is to sit next to some
> inconsiderate person talking on the phone as I try to sleep my way
> arcoss the company.
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 8:54:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Jim-G wrote:
> Whoa.....it is a very simple electronic problem and not social
> engineering. You have a "cell" phone designed to work within a
> "cell". That is a small area of coverage from one tower. When you
> get on an airplane to activate your phone....you then talk not to one
> cell but dozens or even hundreds from altitude. That caused a big
> problem of how to handle it with the network.
>
> You want good 'cell' service then turn the things off in an airplane,
> simple.

Thank you for offering what may seem an obvious observation, but has gone
missing in this thread. I'd like to add that cell phones were designed with
car use (up to 80mph) in mind but not jet travel (hundreds of mph). Just
imagine the difficulty of handing off at that speed!

;-)
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 11:45:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

On 2005-06-18 09:56:34 -0400, "BarryHill@gmail.com" <Backglass@gmail.com> said:

>> phones lack feedback to the earpiece from the microphone
>
> It's called "Sidetone" BTW.
>
>> you then talk not to one cell but dozens or even hundreds from altitude.
>
> The idea was to create a cell on the plane itself so interefence with
> terrestial cell site would not be a problem. Your phone seeks out the
> strongest signal.
>
> That being said....as a platinum flyer/million miler, I for one hope
> cell phones NEVER are allowed in flight. It would be a nightmare. Can
> you imagine just 20% of a 767 talking on phones? Endless, mindless
> conversations from bored idiots?


Better yet, give 'em all Nextel phones. <BLEEP>BLARBLHARBLAHABLLAHR<BLEEP>
June 19, 2005 2:33:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

"BarryHill@gmail.com" <Backglass@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119102994.650358.267480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

> Endless, mindless conversations from bored idiots?

Not sure what flights you're on but I hear the same thing now without cell
phones. I'm not sure how it would be much worse.
Anonymous
June 19, 2005 2:52:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

The real reason for No cell phone on planes is the Roaming implications
of a customer taking a flight from New York to Seattle and roaming on
all the canadian towers.

It will also tie up a huge number of channels.

This is a roaming and capacity issue and Not a interference issue.

I have read in this forum where people have been traveling near the
Canadian boarder, and getting huge roaming bills.

Cingular will usually discard the charges, but they do not have to.
If the feds do lift the ban, al lot of poeple will roam on mexican GSM
systems, Canadian systems, and other systems, depending on weather
conditions.

IMHO

Chip



Jer wrote:
>
> From CNN...
>
> http://tinyurl.com/cnqx7
>
>
June 19, 2005 11:15:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

>
> Better yet, give 'em all Nextel phones. <BLEEP>BLARBLHARBLAHABLLAHR<BLEEP>
>

More like (no signal) (no signal) (no signal) (no signal) (no signal) (no
signal) (no signal) (no signal) (no signal) (no signal) (no signal) (no
signal) (no signal) (no signal) (no signal)
<BLEEP>BLARBLHARBLAHABLLAHR<BLEEP> (no signal) (no signal) (no signal) (no
signal) (no signal) (no signal) (no signal) (no signal) (no signal) (no
signal) (no signal) (no signal) (no signal) (no signal) (no signal)
Anonymous
June 21, 2005 7:24:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Taking a moment's reflection, BarryHill@gmail.com mused:
|
| Yes. Why cant we be more like Europeans!
| Calm...quiet...docile...peaceful. You know...like their soccer
| matches!

Soccer isn't played in Europe.
Anonymous
June 21, 2005 7:28:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Taking a moment's reflection, JohnF mused:
|
| Not sure what flights you're on but I hear the same thing now without
| cell phones. I'm not sure how it would be much worse.

Not sure what flights you're on. ;-) All the flights I take for
business usually are pretty quiet affairs (other than engine noise of
course). I would say less than 5% of the passengers talk ... much less
in extended conversations. But, as soon as we dock at the gate, and the
bell chimes, out come everyone's cell phones. If they they were allowed
to use the phones during flight, they probably would. I image it would
be much like being one of the 50 people jammed in a telephone booth at
University ... except with everyone else being on the phone at the same
time.

Lifting the ban would probably be good for iPod sales, though. ;-)
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 1:12:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

US = cheap minutes, expensive data (including SMS)
Europe = cheaper data, expensive [outgoing] minutes

Richie wrote:

> Simply and politely ask him to quiet. If he does no comply, call the flight
> attendant. When in close proximity of others, one should tap (SMS) not
> talk. People do that very well in Europe and Asia. Why are Americans so
> loud?
>
> "Mark" <tigerfan@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:vf08b1ldf6fbkfj85nt75jootenbgu54uc@4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 22:57:12 -0500, Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> From CNN...
> >>
> >>http://tinyurl.com/cnqx7
> >
> >
> > Thank you Cingular! The last thing I need is to sit next to some
> > inconsiderate person talking on the phone as I try to sleep my way
> > arcoss the company.
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 1:12:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Not on Sprint. Sprint also has cheap text and internet access.

"Tropical Haven" <email@example.net> wrote in message
news:42B8BB0F.72D18113@example.net...
> US = cheap minutes, expensive data (including SMS)
> Europe = cheaper data, expensive [outgoing] minutes
>
> Richie wrote:
>
>> Simply and politely ask him to quiet. If he does no comply, call the
>> flight
>> attendant. When in close proximity of others, one should tap (SMS) not
>> talk. People do that very well in Europe and Asia. Why are Americans
>> so
>> loud?
>>
>> "Mark" <tigerfan@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:vf08b1ldf6fbkfj85nt75jootenbgu54uc@4ax.com...
>> > On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 22:57:12 -0500, Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> From CNN...
>> >>
>> >>http://tinyurl.com/cnqx7
>> >
>> >
>> > Thank you Cingular! The last thing I need is to sit next to some
>> > inconsiderate person talking on the phone as I try to sleep my way
>> > arcoss the company.
>
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 5:00:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

I can add, as a pilot and cell phone user, that cell networks have been
known to cancel your service when your signal is detected on mulitple towers
at once since that is exactly what occurs when your phone has been "cloned".


"Drewdawg" <nope@not.here> wrote in message
news:FS%se.38$2j1.17778@news.uswest.net...
> Jim-G wrote:
> > Whoa.....it is a very simple electronic problem and not social
> > engineering. You have a "cell" phone designed to work within a
> > "cell". That is a small area of coverage from one tower. When you
> > get on an airplane to activate your phone....you then talk not to one
> > cell but dozens or even hundreds from altitude. That caused a big
> > problem of how to handle it with the network.
> >
> > You want good 'cell' service then turn the things off in an airplane,
> > simple.
>
> Thank you for offering what may seem an obvious observation, but has gone
> missing in this thread. I'd like to add that cell phones were designed
with
> car use (up to 80mph) in mind but not jet travel (hundreds of mph). Just
> imagine the difficulty of handing off at that speed!
>
> ;-)
>
>
June 25, 2005 12:50:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

mhicaoidh wrote:
> Taking a moment's reflection, JohnF mused:
> |
> | Not sure what flights you're on but I hear the same thing now without
> | cell phones. I'm not sure how it would be much worse.
>
> Not sure what flights you're on. ;-) All the flights I take for
> business usually are pretty quiet affairs (other than engine noise of
> course). I would say less than 5% of the passengers talk ... much less
> in extended conversations. But, as soon as we dock at the gate, and the
> bell chimes, out come everyone's cell phones. If they they were allowed
> to use the phones during flight, they probably would. I image it would
> be much like being one of the 50 people jammed in a telephone booth at
> University ... except with everyone else being on the phone at the same
> time.
>
> Lifting the ban would probably be good for iPod sales, though. ;-)
>


I imagine it wouldn't take long for passengers on the same flight to use
their cell phones to talk to each other when they couldn't get adjacent
seats. Considering the typical noise levels of the passenger cabin,
this type of comm link would provide a whole new level of challenges for
the participants and their unfortunate seat neighbours.


--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'
June 25, 2005 1:10:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

DG wrote:
> I can add, as a pilot and cell phone user, that cell networks have been
> known to cancel your service when your signal is detected on mulitple towers
> at once since that is exactly what occurs when your phone has been "cloned".
>


An interesting aspect I hadn't considered. Although to a large degree,
clone fraud has largely been an AMPS issue, it's not totally impossible
with digital technologies. Multiple system registration would be a
nuther kettle of fish for the terrestrial provider, but for the cabin
provider, this doesn't seem likely. An airborn in-cabin cellular system
would be likely be a dual-face microcell linked via satellite (can you
say 'latency'?) or a direct ground link via multi-channel radio as the
plane hops from one ground station to another. The former would see the
"air cell" as a static point in the network (like any other terrestrial
cell), and the latter as a 'hopping' cell within the network - each
still offering single cell operation for the handset users.


--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'
!