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After SP2 software will not work

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August 9, 2004 5:44:04 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

Is there a setting in SP2 for Tablet XP that I can turn off to make certain
softwares run (new SP2 security feature)? I tried the RUN AS OS option but
no go - where is the disable function for this?

Thx

More about : sp2 software work

Anonymous
August 9, 2004 5:44:05 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

Which program(s) are you having issues with, Zane. If you were running a
program installed with a previous release candidate in place, you probably
need to uninstall and then reinstall that program. Between builds and
reverting to SP1, the Registry did change.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone


"Zane" <zane@mail.com> wrote in message
news:epn%23YDkfEHA.2984@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Is there a setting in SP2 for Tablet XP that I can turn off to make
> certain softwares run (new SP2 security feature)? I tried the RUN AS OS
> option but no go - where is the disable function for this?
>
> Thx
>
August 10, 2004 3:32:57 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

This is a fresh install of my new slipstreamed SP2 Tablet XP Edition - I
just want the capability to ALLOW the application to RUN - there has to be a
place in the registry to allow even codes considered insecure - I would
think...




"Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23fkCeNkfEHA.140@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Which program(s) are you having issues with, Zane. If you were running a
> program installed with a previous release candidate in place, you probably
> need to uninstall and then reinstall that program. Between builds and
> reverting to SP1, the Registry did change.
> --
> Chris H.
> Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
> Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
> Associate Expert
> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>
>
> "Zane" <zane@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:epn%23YDkfEHA.2984@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> Is there a setting in SP2 for Tablet XP that I can turn off to make
>> certain softwares run (new SP2 security feature)? I tried the RUN AS OS
>> option but no go - where is the disable function for this?
>>
>> Thx
>>
>
>
Related resources
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 3:32:58 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

What is the application? You should have no issue with a normal app which
runs on Windows XP Pro.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone


"Izzy" <izzy@netmail.com> wrote in message
news:uYYtcMpfEHA.1092@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> This is a fresh install of my new slipstreamed SP2 Tablet XP Edition - I
> just want the capability to ALLOW the application to RUN - there has to be
> a place in the registry to allow even codes considered insecure - I would
> think...
>
>
>
>
> "Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:%23fkCeNkfEHA.140@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>> Which program(s) are you having issues with, Zane. If you were running a
>> program installed with a previous release candidate in place, you
>> probably need to uninstall and then reinstall that program. Between
>> builds and reverting to SP1, the Registry did change.
>> --
>> Chris H.
>> Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
>> Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
>> Associate Expert
>> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>>
>>
>> "Zane" <zane@mail.com> wrote in message
>> news:epn%23YDkfEHA.2984@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>> Is there a setting in SP2 for Tablet XP that I can turn off to make
>>> certain softwares run (new SP2 security feature)? I tried the RUN AS OS
>>> option but no go - where is the disable function for this?
>>>
>>> Thx
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 12:58:22 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

Some software is known to fail on SP2 due to new security settings.

"Zane" <zane@mail.com> wrote in message
news:epn%23YDkfEHA.2984@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Is there a setting in SP2 for Tablet XP that I can turn off to make
> certain softwares run (new SP2 security feature)? I tried the RUN AS OS
> option but no go - where is the disable function for this?
>
> Thx
>
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 2:03:48 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

In article <uYYtcMpfEHA.1092@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl>, izzy@netmail.com
says...
> This is a fresh install of my new slipstreamed SP2 Tablet XP Edition - I
> just want the capability to ALLOW the application to RUN - there has to be a
> place in the registry to allow even codes considered insecure - I would
> think...

I hope there isn't one! I don't want viruses to just be able to change a
registry setting in order to allow themselves to do more damage!

If anybody knows what it is, don't spread the information. I'm sure the
hackers will figure it out soon enough but let's not help them along.
August 10, 2004 9:36:08 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

"Mike Williams [MVP]" <mikew@Nospam]mvps.org> wrote in
news:#5FkhRmfEHA.2764@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl:

> Some software is known to fail on SP2 due to new security settings.
>

Well that doesn't sound very inviting!
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 9:36:09 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

The problem in some cases is (1) a previous version of the beta SP2 software
has been installed, and a program installed during that existence, or (2) a
software company hasn't updated their software to work with SP2 yet
(example: Norton/Symantec, which is coming out today with an update to fix
issues). Otherwise, it is very rare a program will fail.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone


"KMO" <teardrops@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95416BD9E3EF4KMO@216.168.3.50...
> "Mike Williams [MVP]" <mikew@Nospam]mvps.org> wrote in
> news:#5FkhRmfEHA.2764@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl:
>
>> Some software is known to fail on SP2 due to new security settings.
>>
>
> Well that doesn't sound very inviting!
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 6:26:40 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

Unfortunately, Chris, Norton didn't come out with anything yet for home and
small business users on their site and have thus far refused to specify the
degree of backwards compatibility that the promiesed and not yet delivered
patches for *Norton* products would entail. Although there are go arounds
to make SP2 work with any version of Norton product, and some a little bit
Byzantine--the routine where you read one Norton KB and click on an icon in
Live Update to reveal the next KB to read, followed by a hyperlink in the
error message to read the 3rd KB--they all end with uninstalling Norton
appropriately I belive and should add to install a product from another
company.

The webpage that didn't deliver from Norton that has been up all week is
this one:

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...

They plan whenever this happens (it didn't happen on August 10 as the web
page has been announcing all week, to deliver a patch in two parts, the
second after a reboot.

The importance of SP2 working for enterprises and home was in Microsoft's
press release:
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/aug04/08-...


"With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business and
consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to ensure
the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst for
the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because it
addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone currently
using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity."

The disingenuous comment by Symantec Senior Vice-President Stephen Cullen is
here:

"With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business and
consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to ensure
the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst for
the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because it
addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone currently
using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity."

Actually in *several papers* available at Technetand MSDN, Microsoft urges
people to uninstall the antivirus before installing SP2. There is a
different story though, from Symantec who advises people to wait for their
patches before installing SP2 on the webpage linked above.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/m...

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...

"Symantec will release a product update to provide native support for the
Windows Security Center status utility found in SP2. This update will be
available worldwide over the coming weeks and will enable Symantec products
to communicate their status to the Windows Security Center utility."

Symantec asks you to wait, and in the case of their time table for
enterprise editions for a vague range up to 8 weeks:

FAQ Running Symantec Client Security
http://tinyurl.com/6mfsy

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/0f75ab1a99...

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nav.nsf/docid/1999...

"Symantec encourages its customers to install the product update prior to
installing SP2 in order to avoid incorrect reporting from Windows Security
Center."

The "security center" for almost everyone who reads and contributes on these
two groups is pretty moot, since they don't need that very basic thing to
tell them where Technet security links are, or whether their firewall and AV
are "on." But many Norton products require work-arounds to make a system
scan work (can be obtained as well from any web site and sometimes will work
from the command line with SP2 and for some people will not), to make "Live
Update" for what it's actually worth work, and to boot up with auto protect
on.

Actually script blocking and email blocking are duplicative ancillary
functions and hype in a Norton/Symantec AV product--not because those things
aren't important--but because any engineer who works at Symantec will tell
you that Auto-Protect does everything the other two do, and the other two
could actually be turned off and you'd still get email scanning and script
blocking.

Norton Antivirus 2005 actually has a box telling people *explicitly to turn
the Windows Firewall in SP2* off as does their Tech Support currently (I
spoke with several of them yesterday)--the reason being because NAV 2005 has
a little code from their "worm protection" or firewall which competes with
the Microsoft Windows firewall. How much firewall is available in NAV 2005
is hard to determine (their new "worm blocking feature.") Obviously it
isn't the whole NIS 2005.

NAV 2005 for many people who have used it works fine with SP2 until the
third boot, and then it has the well known freeze in refresh problem that is
addressed sometimes by this Symantec KB which applies to Win XP RTM although
it doesn't say so. A lot of Symantec/Norton KBs are labeled forone year's
version but the same steps apply to versions of Windows and Norton after 9X.
This is corrected by reregistering "jscript.dll" and downloading and
reinstalling Windows Script Host 5.6 and other components.

The more people they tick off by dragging their feet on compatibility to
force sales of 2005 boxes, the better it may be for the new company, "the
new security vendor on the block," Microsoft Antivirus.

http://news.com.com/Security+vendors+face+new+kid+on+bl...

Best,

Chad Harris
_____________________________________________________________________



"Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%2317WUfwfEHA.636@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
The problem in some cases is (1) a previous version of the beta SP2 software
has been installed, and a program installed during that existence, or (2) a
software company hasn't updated their software to work with SP2 yet
(example: Norton/Symantec, which is coming out today with an update to fix
issues). Otherwise, it is very rare a program will fail.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone


"KMO" <teardrops@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95416BD9E3EF4KMO@216.168.3.50...
> "Mike Williams [MVP]" <mikew@Nospam]mvps.org> wrote in
> news:#5FkhRmfEHA.2764@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl:
>
>> Some software is known to fail on SP2 due to new security settings.
>>
>
> Well that doesn't sound very inviting!
August 11, 2004 10:30:01 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

From other reports I've seen, using Live Update at least solves the problem
of SP2 not showing Norton's AV as running.
--
Terri Stratton
Editor / Owner
http://thetabletpc.net
Microsoft Windows MVP / Tablet PC

"Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:o mrhpw2fEHA.3048@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Unfortunately, Chris, Norton didn't come out with anything yet for home
> and small business users on their site and have thus far refused to
> specify the degree of backwards compatibility that the promiesed and not
> yet delivered patches for *Norton* products would entail. Although there
> are go arounds to make SP2 work with any version of Norton product, and
> some a little bit Byzantine--the routine where you read one Norton KB and
> click on an icon in Live Update to reveal the next KB to read, followed by
> a hyperlink in the error message to read the 3rd KB--they all end with
> uninstalling Norton appropriately I belive and should add to install a
> product from another company.
>
> The webpage that didn't deliver from Norton that has been up all week is
> this one:
>
> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...
>
> They plan whenever this happens (it didn't happen on August 10 as the web
> page has been announcing all week, to deliver a patch in two parts, the
> second after a reboot.
>
> The importance of SP2 working for enterprises and home was in Microsoft's
> press release:
> http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/aug04/08-...
>
>
> "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business and
> consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to ensure
> the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst
> for
> the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
> business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because
> it
> addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone
> currently
> using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity."
>
> The disingenuous comment by Symantec Senior Vice-President Stephen Cullen
> is here:
>
> "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business and
> consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to ensure
> the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst
> for
> the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
> business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because
> it
> addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone
> currently
> using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity."
>
> Actually in *several papers* available at Technetand MSDN, Microsoft
> urges people to uninstall the antivirus before installing SP2. There is a
> different story though, from Symantec who advises people to wait for their
> patches before installing SP2 on the webpage linked above.
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/m...
>
> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...
>
> "Symantec will release a product update to provide native support for the
> Windows Security Center status utility found in SP2. This update will be
> available worldwide over the coming weeks and will enable Symantec
> products to communicate their status to the Windows Security Center
> utility."
>
> Symantec asks you to wait, and in the case of their time table for
> enterprise editions for a vague range up to 8 weeks:
>
> FAQ Running Symantec Client Security
> http://tinyurl.com/6mfsy
>
> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/0f75ab1a99...
>
> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nav.nsf/docid/1999...
>
> "Symantec encourages its customers to install the product update prior to
> installing SP2 in order to avoid incorrect reporting from Windows Security
> Center."
>
> The "security center" for almost everyone who reads and contributes on
> these two groups is pretty moot, since they don't need that very basic
> thing to tell them where Technet security links are, or whether their
> firewall and AV are "on." But many Norton products require work-arounds
> to make a system scan work (can be obtained as well from any web site and
> sometimes will work from the command line with SP2 and for some people
> will not), to make "Live Update" for what it's actually worth work, and to
> boot up with auto protect on.
>
> Actually script blocking and email blocking are duplicative ancillary
> functions and hype in a Norton/Symantec AV product--not because those
> things aren't important--but because any engineer who works at Symantec
> will tell you that Auto-Protect does everything the other two do, and the
> other two could actually be turned off and you'd still get email scanning
> and script blocking.
>
> Norton Antivirus 2005 actually has a box telling people *explicitly to
> turn the Windows Firewall in SP2* off as does their Tech Support currently
> (I spoke with several of them yesterday)--the reason being because NAV
> 2005 has a little code from their "worm protection" or firewall which
> competes with the Microsoft Windows firewall. How much firewall is
> available in NAV 2005 is hard to determine (their new "worm blocking
> feature.") Obviously it isn't the whole NIS 2005.
>
> NAV 2005 for many people who have used it works fine with SP2 until the
> third boot, and then it has the well known freeze in refresh problem that
> is addressed sometimes by this Symantec KB which applies to Win XP RTM
> although it doesn't say so. A lot of Symantec/Norton KBs are labeled
> forone year's version but the same steps apply to versions of Windows and
> Norton after 9X. This is corrected by reregistering "jscript.dll" and
> downloading and reinstalling Windows Script Host 5.6 and other components.
>
> The more people they tick off by dragging their feet on compatibility to
> force sales of 2005 boxes, the better it may be for the new company, "the
> new security vendor on the block," Microsoft Antivirus.
>
> http://news.com.com/Security+vendors+face+new+kid+on+bl...
>
> Best,
>
> Chad Harris
> _____________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> "Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:%2317WUfwfEHA.636@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> The problem in some cases is (1) a previous version of the beta SP2
> software
> has been installed, and a program installed during that existence, or (2)
> a
> software company hasn't updated their software to work with SP2 yet
> (example: Norton/Symantec, which is coming out today with an update to
> fix
> issues). Otherwise, it is very rare a program will fail.
> --
> Chris H.
> Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
> Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
> Associate Expert
> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>
>
> "KMO" <teardrops@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns95416BD9E3EF4KMO@216.168.3.50...
>> "Mike Williams [MVP]" <mikew@Nospam]mvps.org> wrote in
>> news:#5FkhRmfEHA.2764@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl:
>>
>>> Some software is known to fail on SP2 due to new security settings.
>>>
>>
>> Well that doesn't sound very inviting!
>
>
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 10:37:41 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

Between your post last night, Chad, and early morning (PDT), I'm seeing
reports of Live Update now downloading the proper fix so the Norton Internet
Security 2004 is now compatible with SP2, and Norton Antivirus is now
properly reporting to the XP Security Center its status.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone


"Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:o mrhpw2fEHA.3048@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Unfortunately, Chris, Norton didn't come out with anything yet for home
> and small business users on their site and have thus far refused to
> specify the degree of backwards compatibility that the promiesed and not
> yet delivered patches for *Norton* products would entail. Although there
> are go arounds to make SP2 work with any version of Norton product, and
> some a little bit Byzantine--the routine where you read one Norton KB and
> click on an icon in Live Update to reveal the next KB to read, followed by
> a hyperlink in the error message to read the 3rd KB--they all end with
> uninstalling Norton appropriately I belive and should add to install a
> product from another company.
>
> The webpage that didn't deliver from Norton that has been up all week is
> this one:
>
> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...
>
> They plan whenever this happens (it didn't happen on August 10 as the web
> page has been announcing all week, to deliver a patch in two parts, the
> second after a reboot.
>
> The importance of SP2 working for enterprises and home was in Microsoft's
> press release:
> http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/aug04/08-...
>
>
> "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business and
> consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to ensure
> the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst
> for
> the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
> business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because
> it
> addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone
> currently
> using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity."
>
> The disingenuous comment by Symantec Senior Vice-President Stephen Cullen
> is here:
>
> "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business and
> consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to ensure
> the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst
> for
> the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
> business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because
> it
> addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone
> currently
> using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity."
>
> Actually in *several papers* available at Technetand MSDN, Microsoft
> urges people to uninstall the antivirus before installing SP2. There is a
> different story though, from Symantec who advises people to wait for their
> patches before installing SP2 on the webpage linked above.
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/m...
>
> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...
>
> "Symantec will release a product update to provide native support for the
> Windows Security Center status utility found in SP2. This update will be
> available worldwide over the coming weeks and will enable Symantec
> products to communicate their status to the Windows Security Center
> utility."
>
> Symantec asks you to wait, and in the case of their time table for
> enterprise editions for a vague range up to 8 weeks:
>
> FAQ Running Symantec Client Security
> http://tinyurl.com/6mfsy
>
> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/0f75ab1a99...
>
> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nav.nsf/docid/1999...
>
> "Symantec encourages its customers to install the product update prior to
> installing SP2 in order to avoid incorrect reporting from Windows Security
> Center."
>
> The "security center" for almost everyone who reads and contributes on
> these two groups is pretty moot, since they don't need that very basic
> thing to tell them where Technet security links are, or whether their
> firewall and AV are "on." But many Norton products require work-arounds
> to make a system scan work (can be obtained as well from any web site and
> sometimes will work from the command line with SP2 and for some people
> will not), to make "Live Update" for what it's actually worth work, and to
> boot up with auto protect on.
>
> Actually script blocking and email blocking are duplicative ancillary
> functions and hype in a Norton/Symantec AV product--not because those
> things aren't important--but because any engineer who works at Symantec
> will tell you that Auto-Protect does everything the other two do, and the
> other two could actually be turned off and you'd still get email scanning
> and script blocking.
>
> Norton Antivirus 2005 actually has a box telling people *explicitly to
> turn the Windows Firewall in SP2* off as does their Tech Support currently
> (I spoke with several of them yesterday)--the reason being because NAV
> 2005 has a little code from their "worm protection" or firewall which
> competes with the Microsoft Windows firewall. How much firewall is
> available in NAV 2005 is hard to determine (their new "worm blocking
> feature.") Obviously it isn't the whole NIS 2005.
>
> NAV 2005 for many people who have used it works fine with SP2 until the
> third boot, and then it has the well known freeze in refresh problem that
> is addressed sometimes by this Symantec KB which applies to Win XP RTM
> although it doesn't say so. A lot of Symantec/Norton KBs are labeled
> forone year's version but the same steps apply to versions of Windows and
> Norton after 9X. This is corrected by reregistering "jscript.dll" and
> downloading and reinstalling Windows Script Host 5.6 and other components.
>
> The more people they tick off by dragging their feet on compatibility to
> force sales of 2005 boxes, the better it may be for the new company, "the
> new security vendor on the block," Microsoft Antivirus.
>
> http://news.com.com/Security+vendors+face+new+kid+on+bl...
>
> Best,
>
> Chad Harris
> _____________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> "Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:%2317WUfwfEHA.636@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> The problem in some cases is (1) a previous version of the beta SP2
> software
> has been installed, and a program installed during that existence, or (2)
> a
> software company hasn't updated their software to work with SP2 yet
> (example: Norton/Symantec, which is coming out today with an update to
> fix
> issues). Otherwise, it is very rare a program will fail.
> --
> Chris H.
> Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
> Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
> Associate Expert
> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>
>
> "KMO" <teardrops@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns95416BD9E3EF4KMO@216.168.3.50...
>> "Mike Williams [MVP]" <mikew@Nospam]mvps.org> wrote in
>> news:#5FkhRmfEHA.2764@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl:
>>
>>> Some software is known to fail on SP2 due to new security settings.
>>>
>>
>> Well that doesn't sound very inviting!
>
>
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 10:38:22 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

Now, not "not." 8-)
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone


"terri" <support@thetabletpc.net> wrote in message
news:uvSNPd6fEHA.3428@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> From other reports I've seen, using Live Update at least solves the
> problem of SP2 not showing Norton's AV as running.
> --
> Terri Stratton
> Editor / Owner
> http://thetabletpc.net
> Microsoft Windows MVP / Tablet PC
>
> "Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:o mrhpw2fEHA.3048@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> Unfortunately, Chris, Norton didn't come out with anything yet for home
>> and small business users on their site and have thus far refused to
>> specify the degree of backwards compatibility that the promiesed and not
>> yet delivered patches for *Norton* products would entail. Although there
>> are go arounds to make SP2 work with any version of Norton product, and
>> some a little bit Byzantine--the routine where you read one Norton KB and
>> click on an icon in Live Update to reveal the next KB to read, followed
>> by a hyperlink in the error message to read the 3rd KB--they all end with
>> uninstalling Norton appropriately I belive and should add to install a
>> product from another company.
>>
>> The webpage that didn't deliver from Norton that has been up all week is
>> this one:
>>
>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...
>>
>> They plan whenever this happens (it didn't happen on August 10 as the web
>> page has been announcing all week, to deliver a patch in two parts, the
>> second after a reboot.
>>
>> The importance of SP2 working for enterprises and home was in Microsoft's
>> press release:
>> http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/aug04/08-...
>>
>>
>> "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business
>> and
>> consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to
>> ensure
>> the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst
>> for
>> the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
>> business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because
>> it
>> addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone
>> currently
>> using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity."
>>
>> The disingenuous comment by Symantec Senior Vice-President Stephen Cullen
>> is here:
>>
>> "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business
>> and
>> consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to
>> ensure
>> the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst
>> for
>> the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
>> business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because
>> it
>> addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone
>> currently
>> using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity."
>>
>> Actually in *several papers* available at Technetand MSDN, Microsoft
>> urges people to uninstall the antivirus before installing SP2. There is
>> a different story though, from Symantec who advises people to wait for
>> their patches before installing SP2 on the webpage linked above.
>> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/m...
>>
>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...
>>
>> "Symantec will release a product update to provide native support for the
>> Windows Security Center status utility found in SP2. This update will be
>> available worldwide over the coming weeks and will enable Symantec
>> products to communicate their status to the Windows Security Center
>> utility."
>>
>> Symantec asks you to wait, and in the case of their time table for
>> enterprise editions for a vague range up to 8 weeks:
>>
>> FAQ Running Symantec Client Security
>> http://tinyurl.com/6mfsy
>>
>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/0f75ab1a99...
>>
>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nav.nsf/docid/1999...
>>
>> "Symantec encourages its customers to install the product update prior to
>> installing SP2 in order to avoid incorrect reporting from Windows
>> Security Center."
>>
>> The "security center" for almost everyone who reads and contributes on
>> these two groups is pretty moot, since they don't need that very basic
>> thing to tell them where Technet security links are, or whether their
>> firewall and AV are "on." But many Norton products require work-arounds
>> to make a system scan work (can be obtained as well from any web site and
>> sometimes will work from the command line with SP2 and for some people
>> will not), to make "Live Update" for what it's actually worth work, and
>> to boot up with auto protect on.
>>
>> Actually script blocking and email blocking are duplicative ancillary
>> functions and hype in a Norton/Symantec AV product--not because those
>> things aren't important--but because any engineer who works at Symantec
>> will tell you that Auto-Protect does everything the other two do, and the
>> other two could actually be turned off and you'd still get email scanning
>> and script blocking.
>>
>> Norton Antivirus 2005 actually has a box telling people *explicitly to
>> turn the Windows Firewall in SP2* off as does their Tech Support
>> currently (I spoke with several of them yesterday)--the reason being
>> because NAV 2005 has a little code from their "worm protection" or
>> firewall which competes with the Microsoft Windows firewall. How much
>> firewall is available in NAV 2005 is hard to determine (their new "worm
>> blocking feature.") Obviously it isn't the whole NIS 2005.
>>
>> NAV 2005 for many people who have used it works fine with SP2 until the
>> third boot, and then it has the well known freeze in refresh problem that
>> is addressed sometimes by this Symantec KB which applies to Win XP RTM
>> although it doesn't say so. A lot of Symantec/Norton KBs are labeled
>> forone year's version but the same steps apply to versions of Windows and
>> Norton after 9X. This is corrected by reregistering "jscript.dll" and
>> downloading and reinstalling Windows Script Host 5.6 and other
>> components.
>>
>> The more people they tick off by dragging their feet on compatibility to
>> force sales of 2005 boxes, the better it may be for the new company, "the
>> new security vendor on the block," Microsoft Antivirus.
>>
>> http://news.com.com/Security+vendors+face+new+kid+on+bl...
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Chad Harris
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> "Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:%2317WUfwfEHA.636@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>> The problem in some cases is (1) a previous version of the beta SP2
>> software
>> has been installed, and a program installed during that existence, or (2)
>> a
>> software company hasn't updated their software to work with SP2 yet
>> (example: Norton/Symantec, which is coming out today with an update to
>> fix
>> issues). Otherwise, it is very rare a program will fail.
>> --
>> Chris H.
>> Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
>> Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
>> Associate Expert
>> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>>
>>
>> "KMO" <teardrops@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns95416BD9E3EF4KMO@216.168.3.50...
>>> "Mike Williams [MVP]" <mikew@Nospam]mvps.org> wrote in
>>> news:#5FkhRmfEHA.2764@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl:
>>>
>>>> Some software is known to fail on SP2 due to new security settings.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well that doesn't sound very inviting!
>>
>>
>
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 6:43:35 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

Chris--

I appreciate the Live Update patch came out with their FAQ. One problem is
that *SP2 breaks Live Update* whether you uninstall Norton and install SP2
(as virtually every Microsoft document on SP2 tells you to do) or leave
Norton/Symantec in. The bottom Line is after a lot of game playing and
clicking successive links on Live Update, tripping through multiple Norton
KBs one leading to the next, you have a *LU 1812 error*, whose final move
is to uninstall NSW or NAV manually and meticulously, and after you have
exhuasted it's remedies, it won't fix with SP2 RTM period.

The only way they are delivering the compatibiilty patches for SP2 is
through Live Update. SP2 whether Norton is installed before or after breaks
Live Udpate and you can't get the patch.

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/sharedtech.nsf/doc...

The part left out on the KB is to install any other antivirus product--many
will work with SP2.

They are not making any other means avialable to patch Norton other than
Live Update. If it's broken, and their KBs to fix it often don't, you're
stuck with scan not working, booting up and having to turn on Auto Protect
with a right click (minor) and often uninstall problems with Norton
products. Microsoft tells you to install SP2 first (uninstall NAV) and
Norton/Symantec tell you to wait until they are updated (in some cases 8
weeks from now for Enterprise Products according to their enterprise FAQ I
linked before) before installing SP2.

Microsoft tells you to turn their Windows Firewall on; Norton 2005 products
on the last box before you click finish will tell you in a single explicit
box to turn it off. NAV 2005 has a piece of NPF or NIS billed as "worm
protection." How much of a piece and what it actually does compared with
the Windows firewall that has been criticized with respect to outbound
traffic still after SP2 RTM is hard to define. Many people are finding
that the Windows firewall leaves much to be desired right now, as you know,
but I'm sure it will be a different story come Longhorn in 2007.

http://www.symantec.com/techsupp/sp2/faq.html

The answers from Symantec on this FAQ just issued just aren't true in some
cases. There is the paradox that for many, Live Update doesn't work with
SP2 and Norton has elected not to deliver their update patches any other
way. They aren't making them available on their site now. That was a goofy
choice to say the least. The patch to fix what's broken can't be obtained
because you are required to use what's broken to get it--that's not only
ironic and paradoxical--you ain't gonna be able to fix what's broken.

Microsoft wants you to put in SP2 before Norton, and if you put in Norton
first and patch it, SP2 can still break Norton a number of ways. Norton
2005 seems to work pretty well with SP2 until you boot 3 times, and then you
have refresh freezing on all categories on the Norton Integrator or gui
interface, i.e. you can't tell what's on. You can see that email scanning
is working. The important thing of course, is that Auto Protect is
enabled, because in fact Auto Protect includes adequate email scan and
script blocking to the point you could turn the other two off and be just
fine according to every Symantec engineer I talked to--so you have to be
able to determine that Auto Protect is up and running.

I reproduced this and so did others about 25 times.

Sometimes but not all that can be fixed by reregistering jscript.dll, and
downloading and reinstalling Scripten or the Microsoft Windows Script
package including the Windows Script Host 5.6 since IE has to function
correctly to read the Norton interface.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyI...

This KB applies to any version of NSW or NIS through 2005 with Windows
versions past 9X. Often Norton doesn't update KBs in version name for
Windows version, but the Norton/Symantec KB will do the job.

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/0f75ab1a99...

The FAQ says:

"Installing Service Pack 2 will have no affect on Norton Personal Firewall
or Norton Internet Security."

Some of the FAQ's are vague to the point of covering anything that will
happen,--I like this one because it avoids saying SP2 can break things that
are Norton/Symantec and it does.

"How will installing Service Pack 2 affect the Symantec Products I have
already installed?"
A. "This varies on the Symantec [Norton as well] products you own." Right.
Many break.

On many boxes, installing SP2 any build will outright break
NIS/NPF any version. It will put up a box that says "You're not the Norton
supervisor" and when you put up the Norton Integrator (the box that shows
what it does with NAV added you can see it but you can't do anything with
it). You'll not be able to uninstall NIS or NPF from Add/Remove, and you'll
have to use a Norton KB that involves 30-45minutes of using a Norton
removal tool, thendeleting several GUID keys and other registry keys,
multiple folders, every Norton file you can track down in ectopic places.


"With Service Pack 2 installed, do I even need my Symantec antivirus and
firewall products? Absolutely."

Norton explicitly tells you to turn the Windows Firewall "*off*" in their
2005 products about to release. I wouldn't run two software firewalls or
more at once, and I don't have data comparing their abilities like stateful
inspection head on with say, ZA, and that info isn't easy to come by now.
What they didn't say in the FAQ is that when you load Norton or Symantec
anything, it's going to tell you to turn your Windows Firewall in SP2
off--last box before "Finished Install."

"Installing Service Pack 2 will have no affect on Norton Personal Firewall
or Norton Internet Security" Just not the case. SP2 can make it difficult
to install, and particularly to uninstall Norton products. I don't know
the numbers in 10,000 boxes for this.


I've found this to be totally *untrue* and reproducable that the firewall
can and will break. Norton also tells you on installation of any 2005
product to *turn off the Windows firewall*. It's the last box before you
click "Finish" on the install of the Norton/Symantec 2005 AV, PF, or NIS.

Norton anti-spam is hype and whatever it does can be spelled a dozen ways
without it.

Norton Go Back reconfigures the Windows Master Boot Record, and I'd just as
soon have someone playing with my elevator lift on the way up the Empire
State Building--it often has the same effect and unhooking Go Back from a
botched Windows boot strap mechanism is simply impossible--their tech
support will tell you they have no clue how and so will MSFT personnel. In
a high percentage of cases, Go Back will destroy partitions in the Windows
Operating System and you won't be seeing that particular OS again ever.
It's refractory to Recovery Console moves or commands and a repair/upgrade
or parallel install will get nowhere.

SP2 can destroy scans in Norton System works, the ability to make it run
after boot, and Live Update the same as in Norton Antivirus.

On some people's boxes the security center will monitor it, but how many
people need the Security Center (none here) need the Security Center to tell
them where Technet is, how to get to Help and Support, or whether their AV
or Firewall are all. Very few individuals who install a Norton product
don't adjust it at the Norton product or who are going to be working with
the Windows Firewall as it evolves and gets better toward Longhorn are going
to be relying on the security center to check on the firewall. My point is
that there are 3 things that happen with multiple versions of NAV that don't
work with SP2--sometimes with the patch update. There are fixes for them,
and sometimes they don't work. System scans, booting up with Auto Protect
Off (it usually can be turned on but sometimes can't--and Auto Protect is
key because it does script blocking/scanning and email scanning--even if you
had them both turned off (they are duplication in Norton/Symantec) auto
protect will cover that functionality. Live Update will often not work with
SP2 and for those people, they can't update to the patches anyway, because
Norton has chosen not to make the patches available any alternative way
which is goofy to say the least.

*Contradiction of Instructions by Microsoft and Symantec/Norton on SP2*

There is also the direct contradiction between Microsoft's instructions and
Norton's. Every place MSFT has an SP2 article at Technet, MSDN, the XP
Expert Zone or any place on MSFT's site, you are told you should uninstall
AV to install SP2.

Symantec and Norton explicitly tell you to wait to install SP2 until you
have updated NAV--and in the case of Symantec patches for enterprise
security, AV, and firewall products there is a vague timetable projecting 8
weeks out from now for release toward the end of September.

When you install a Symantec or Norton 2005 product, it tells you explicitly
to *turn off the Windows firewall--something I know the Networking team and
SP2 team did not strive to have done. NAV 2005 has a piece of their NIS
2005 firewall, so-called "Worm Protection" although how much a piece is
impossible to quantify unless you are a Symantec engineer who has the code.

I do know that Microsoft is definitely developing Microsoft Antivirus
products, but that the publicity campaign for them is non-existent. I would
bet on Microsoft to produce a superior product to Symantec/Norton in a
number of ways, including the ridiculous necessity to read 10 Norton KBs to
do a cascade of work arounds to make a product work. Live Update is a great
example. Scans that fail are another. Clicking a plus to go to a drop down
to get a link to get the 5th KB you've used for one Norton problem is like a
childeren's game. Those come into play with SP2.

I personally hope Microsoft puts Norton and Symantec out of business and
gets their AV product up and running rapidly. I guarantee Symantec is
looking over their big floundering shoulders.

Best,

Chad Harris
_________________________________



"Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23Ledkh6fEHA.3348@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
Between your post last night, Chad, and early morning (PDT), I'm seeing
reports of Live Update now downloading the proper fix so the Norton Internet
Security 2004 is now compatible with SP2, and Norton Antivirus is now
properly reporting to the XP Security Center its status.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone


"Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:o mrhpw2fEHA.3048@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Unfortunately, Chris, Norton didn't come out with anything yet for home
> and small business users on their site and have thus far refused to
> specify the degree of backwards compatibility that the promiesed and not
> yet delivered patches for *Norton* products would entail. Although there
> are go arounds to make SP2 work with any version of Norton product, and
> some a little bit Byzantine--the routine where you read one Norton KB and
> click on an icon in Live Update to reveal the next KB to read, followed by
> a hyperlink in the error message to read the 3rd KB--they all end with
> uninstalling Norton appropriately I belive and should add to install a
> product from another company.
>
> The webpage that didn't deliver from Norton that has been up all week is
> this one:
>
> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...
>
> They plan whenever this happens (it didn't happen on August 10 as the web
> page has been announcing all week, to deliver a patch in two parts, the
> second after a reboot.
>
> The importance of SP2 working for enterprises and home was in Microsoft's
> press release:
> http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/aug04/08-...
>
>
> "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business and
> consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to ensure
> the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst
> for
> the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
> business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because
> it
> addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone
> currently
> using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity."
>
> The disingenuous comment by Symantec Senior Vice-President Stephen Cullen
> is here:
>
> "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business and
> consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to ensure
> the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst
> for
> the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
> business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because
> it
> addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone
> currently
> using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity."
>
> Actually in *several papers* available at Technetand MSDN, Microsoft
> urges people to uninstall the antivirus before installing SP2. There is a
> different story though, from Symantec who advises people to wait for their
> patches before installing SP2 on the webpage linked above.
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/m...
>
> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...
>
> "Symantec will release a product update to provide native support for the
> Windows Security Center status utility found in SP2. This update will be
> available worldwide over the coming weeks and will enable Symantec
> products to communicate their status to the Windows Security Center
> utility."
>
> Symantec asks you to wait, and in the case of their time table for
> enterprise editions for a vague range up to 8 weeks:
>
> FAQ Running Symantec Client Security
> http://tinyurl.com/6mfsy
>
> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/0f75ab1a99...
>
> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nav.nsf/docid/1999...
>
> "Symantec encourages its customers to install the product update prior to
> installing SP2 in order to avoid incorrect reporting from Windows Security
> Center."
>
> The "security center" for almost everyone who reads and contributes on
> these two groups is pretty moot, since they don't need that very basic
> thing to tell them where Technet security links are, or whether their
> firewall and AV are "on." But many Norton products require work-arounds
> to make a system scan work (can be obtained as well from any web site and
> sometimes will work from the command line with SP2 and for some people
> will not), to make "Live Update" for what it's actually worth work, and to
> boot up with auto protect on.
>
> Actually script blocking and email blocking are duplicative ancillary
> functions and hype in a Norton/Symantec AV product--not because those
> things aren't important--but because any engineer who works at Symantec
> will tell you that Auto-Protect does everything the other two do, and the
> other two could actually be turned off and you'd still get email scanning
> and script blocking.
>
> Norton Antivirus 2005 actually has a box telling people *explicitly to
> turn the Windows Firewall in SP2* off as does their Tech Support currently
> (I spoke with several of them yesterday)--the reason being because NAV
> 2005 has a little code from their "worm protection" or firewall which
> competes with the Microsoft Windows firewall. How much firewall is
> available in NAV 2005 is hard to determine (their new "worm blocking
> feature.") Obviously it isn't the whole NIS 2005.
>
> NAV 2005 for many people who have used it works fine with SP2 until the
> third boot, and then it has the well known freeze in refresh problem that
> is addressed sometimes by this Symantec KB which applies to Win XP RTM
> although it doesn't say so. A lot of Symantec/Norton KBs are labeled
> forone year's version but the same steps apply to versions of Windows and
> Norton after 9X. This is corrected by reregistering "jscript.dll" and
> downloading and reinstalling Windows Script Host 5.6 and other components.
>
> The more people they tick off by dragging their feet on compatibility to
> force sales of 2005 boxes, the better it may be for the new company, "the
> new security vendor on the block," Microsoft Antivirus.
>
> http://news.com.com/Security+vendors+face+new+kid+on+bl...
>
> Best,
>
> Chad Harris
> _____________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> "Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:%2317WUfwfEHA.636@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> The problem in some cases is (1) a previous version of the beta SP2
> software
> has been installed, and a program installed during that existence, or (2)
> a
> software company hasn't updated their software to work with SP2 yet
> (example: Norton/Symantec, which is coming out today with an update to
> fix
> issues). Otherwise, it is very rare a program will fail.
> --
> Chris H.
> Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
> Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
> Associate Expert
> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>
>
> "KMO" <teardrops@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns95416BD9E3EF4KMO@216.168.3.50...
>> "Mike Williams [MVP]" <mikew@Nospam]mvps.org> wrote in
>> news:#5FkhRmfEHA.2764@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl:
>>
>>> Some software is known to fail on SP2 due to new security settings.
>>>
>>
>> Well that doesn't sound very inviting!
>
>
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 6:43:36 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

Seems to work for a lot of other people after SP2 is installed, Chad. I
suggest you contact Symantec or Norton with your specifics.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone


"Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:o Z0maM9fEHA.1188@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Chris--
>
> I appreciate the Live Update patch came out with their FAQ. One problem
> is that *SP2 breaks Live Update* whether you uninstall Norton and install
> SP2 (as virtually every Microsoft document on SP2 tells you to do) or
> leave Norton/Symantec in. The bottom Line is after a lot of game playing
> and clicking successive links on Live Update, tripping through multiple
> Norton KBs one leading to the next, you have a *LU 1812 error*, whose
> final move is to uninstall NSW or NAV manually and meticulously, and after
> you have exhuasted it's remedies, it won't fix with SP2 RTM period.
>
> The only way they are delivering the compatibiilty patches for SP2 is
> through Live Update. SP2 whether Norton is installed before or after
> breaks Live Udpate and you can't get the patch.
>
> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/sharedtech.nsf/doc...
>
> The part left out on the KB is to install any other antivirus
> product--many will work with SP2.
>
> They are not making any other means avialable to patch Norton other than
> Live Update. If it's broken, and their KBs to fix it often don't, you're
> stuck with scan not working, booting up and having to turn on Auto Protect
> with a right click (minor) and often uninstall problems with Norton
> products. Microsoft tells you to install SP2 first (uninstall NAV) and
> Norton/Symantec tell you to wait until they are updated (in some cases 8
> weeks from now for Enterprise Products according to their enterprise FAQ I
> linked before) before installing SP2.
>
> Microsoft tells you to turn their Windows Firewall on; Norton 2005
> products on the last box before you click finish will tell you in a single
> explicit box to turn it off. NAV 2005 has a piece of NPF or NIS billed as
> "worm protection." How much of a piece and what it actually does compared
> with the Windows firewall that has been criticized with respect to
> outbound traffic still after SP2 RTM is hard to define. Many people are
> finding that the Windows firewall leaves much to be desired right now, as
> you know, but I'm sure it will be a different story come Longhorn in
> 2007.
>
> http://www.symantec.com/techsupp/sp2/faq.html
>
> The answers from Symantec on this FAQ just issued just aren't true in some
> cases. There is the paradox that for many, Live Update doesn't work with
> SP2 and Norton has elected not to deliver their update patches any other
> way. They aren't making them available on their site now. That was a
> goofy choice to say the least. The patch to fix what's broken can't be
> obtained because you are required to use what's broken to get it--that's
> not only ironic and paradoxical--you ain't gonna be able to fix what's
> broken.
>
> Microsoft wants you to put in SP2 before Norton, and if you put in Norton
> first and patch it, SP2 can still break Norton a number of ways. Norton
> 2005 seems to work pretty well with SP2 until you boot 3 times, and then
> you have refresh freezing on all categories on the Norton Integrator or
> gui interface, i.e. you can't tell what's on. You can see that email
> scanning is working. The important thing of course, is that Auto Protect
> is enabled, because in fact Auto Protect includes adequate email scan and
> script blocking to the point you could turn the other two off and be just
> fine according to every Symantec engineer I talked to--so you have to be
> able to determine that Auto Protect is up and running.
>
> I reproduced this and so did others about 25 times.
>
> Sometimes but not all that can be fixed by reregistering jscript.dll, and
> downloading and reinstalling Scripten or the Microsoft Windows Script
> package including the Windows Script Host 5.6 since IE has to function
> correctly to read the Norton interface.
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyI...
>
> This KB applies to any version of NSW or NIS through 2005 with Windows
> versions past 9X. Often Norton doesn't update KBs in version name for
> Windows version, but the Norton/Symantec KB will do the job.
>
> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/0f75ab1a99...
>
> The FAQ says:
>
> "Installing Service Pack 2 will have no affect on Norton Personal Firewall
> or Norton Internet Security."
>
> Some of the FAQ's are vague to the point of covering anything that will
> happen,--I like this one because it avoids saying SP2 can break things
> that are Norton/Symantec and it does.
>
> "How will installing Service Pack 2 affect the Symantec Products I have
> already installed?"
> A. "This varies on the Symantec [Norton as well] products you own."
> Right. Many break.
>
> On many boxes, installing SP2 any build will outright break
> NIS/NPF any version. It will put up a box that says "You're not the
> Norton
> supervisor" and when you put up the Norton Integrator (the box that shows
> what it does with NAV added you can see it but you can't do anything with
> it). You'll not be able to uninstall NIS or NPF from Add/Remove, and
> you'll
> have to use a Norton KB that involves 30-45minutes of using a Norton
> removal tool, thendeleting several GUID keys and other registry keys,
> multiple folders, every Norton file you can track down in ectopic places.
>
>
> "With Service Pack 2 installed, do I even need my Symantec antivirus and
> firewall products? Absolutely."
>
> Norton explicitly tells you to turn the Windows Firewall "*off*" in their
> 2005 products about to release. I wouldn't run two software firewalls or
> more at once, and I don't have data comparing their abilities like
> stateful
> inspection head on with say, ZA, and that info isn't easy to come by now.
> What they didn't say in the FAQ is that when you load Norton or Symantec
> anything, it's going to tell you to turn your Windows Firewall in SP2
> off--last box before "Finished Install."
>
> "Installing Service Pack 2 will have no affect on Norton Personal Firewall
> or Norton Internet Security" Just not the case. SP2 can make it
> difficult to install, and particularly to uninstall Norton products. I
> don't know the numbers in 10,000 boxes for this.
>
>
> I've found this to be totally *untrue* and reproducable that the firewall
> can and will break. Norton also tells you on installation of any 2005
> product to *turn off the Windows firewall*. It's the last box before you
> click "Finish" on the install of the Norton/Symantec 2005 AV, PF, or NIS.
>
> Norton anti-spam is hype and whatever it does can be spelled a dozen ways
> without it.
>
> Norton Go Back reconfigures the Windows Master Boot Record, and I'd just
> as
> soon have someone playing with my elevator lift on the way up the Empire
> State Building--it often has the same effect and unhooking Go Back from a
> botched Windows boot strap mechanism is simply impossible--their tech
> support will tell you they have no clue how and so will MSFT personnel.
> In
> a high percentage of cases, Go Back will destroy partitions in the Windows
> Operating System and you won't be seeing that particular OS again ever.
> It's refractory to Recovery Console moves or commands and a repair/upgrade
> or parallel install will get nowhere.
>
> SP2 can destroy scans in Norton System works, the ability to make it run
> after boot, and Live Update the same as in Norton Antivirus.
>
> On some people's boxes the security center will monitor it, but how many
> people need the Security Center (none here) need the Security Center to
> tell
> them where Technet is, how to get to Help and Support, or whether their AV
> or Firewall are all. Very few individuals who install a Norton product
> don't adjust it at the Norton product or who are going to be working with
> the Windows Firewall as it evolves and gets better toward Longhorn are
> going
> to be relying on the security center to check on the firewall. My point
> is
> that there are 3 things that happen with multiple versions of NAV that
> don't
> work with SP2--sometimes with the patch update. There are fixes for them,
> and sometimes they don't work. System scans, booting up with Auto Protect
> Off (it usually can be turned on but sometimes can't--and Auto Protect is
> key because it does script blocking/scanning and email scanning--even if
> you
> had them both turned off (they are duplication in Norton/Symantec) auto
> protect will cover that functionality. Live Update will often not work
> with
> SP2 and for those people, they can't update to the patches anyway, because
> Norton has chosen not to make the patches available any alternative way
> which is goofy to say the least.
>
> *Contradiction of Instructions by Microsoft and Symantec/Norton on SP2*
>
> There is also the direct contradiction between Microsoft's instructions
> and
> Norton's. Every place MSFT has an SP2 article at Technet, MSDN, the XP
> Expert Zone or any place on MSFT's site, you are told you should uninstall
> AV to install SP2.
>
> Symantec and Norton explicitly tell you to wait to install SP2 until you
> have updated NAV--and in the case of Symantec patches for enterprise
> security, AV, and firewall products there is a vague timetable projecting
> 8
> weeks out from now for release toward the end of September.
>
> When you install a Symantec or Norton 2005 product, it tells you
> explicitly
> to *turn off the Windows firewall--something I know the Networking team
> and
> SP2 team did not strive to have done. NAV 2005 has a piece of their NIS
> 2005 firewall, so-called "Worm Protection" although how much a piece is
> impossible to quantify unless you are a Symantec engineer who has the
> code.
>
> I do know that Microsoft is definitely developing Microsoft Antivirus
> products, but that the publicity campaign for them is non-existent. I
> would
> bet on Microsoft to produce a superior product to Symantec/Norton in a
> number of ways, including the ridiculous necessity to read 10 Norton KBs
> to
> do a cascade of work arounds to make a product work. Live Update is a
> great
> example. Scans that fail are another. Clicking a plus to go to a drop
> down
> to get a link to get the 5th KB you've used for one Norton problem is like
> a
> childeren's game. Those come into play with SP2.
>
> I personally hope Microsoft puts Norton and Symantec out of business and
> gets their AV product up and running rapidly. I guarantee Symantec is
> looking over their big floundering shoulders.
>
> Best,
>
> Chad Harris
> _________________________________
>
>
>
> "Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:%23Ledkh6fEHA.3348@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Between your post last night, Chad, and early morning (PDT), I'm seeing
> reports of Live Update now downloading the proper fix so the Norton
> Internet
> Security 2004 is now compatible with SP2, and Norton Antivirus is now
> properly reporting to the XP Security Center its status.
> --
> Chris H.
> Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
> Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
> Associate Expert
> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>
>
> "Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:o mrhpw2fEHA.3048@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> Unfortunately, Chris, Norton didn't come out with anything yet for home
>> and small business users on their site and have thus far refused to
>> specify the degree of backwards compatibility that the promiesed and not
>> yet delivered patches for *Norton* products would entail. Although there
>> are go arounds to make SP2 work with any version of Norton product, and
>> some a little bit Byzantine--the routine where you read one Norton KB and
>> click on an icon in Live Update to reveal the next KB to read, followed
>> by a hyperlink in the error message to read the 3rd KB--they all end with
>> uninstalling Norton appropriately I belive and should add to install a
>> product from another company.
>>
>> The webpage that didn't deliver from Norton that has been up all week is
>> this one:
>>
>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...
>>
>> They plan whenever this happens (it didn't happen on August 10 as the web
>> page has been announcing all week, to deliver a patch in two parts, the
>> second after a reboot.
>>
>> The importance of SP2 working for enterprises and home was in Microsoft's
>> press release:
>> http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/aug04/08-...
>>
>>
>> "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business
>> and
>> consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to
>> ensure
>> the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst
>> for
>> the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
>> business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because
>> it
>> addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone
>> currently
>> using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity."
>>
>> The disingenuous comment by Symantec Senior Vice-President Stephen Cullen
>> is here:
>>
>> "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business
>> and
>> consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to
>> ensure
>> the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst
>> for
>> the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
>> business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because
>> it
>> addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone
>> currently
>> using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity."
>>
>> Actually in *several papers* available at Technetand MSDN, Microsoft
>> urges people to uninstall the antivirus before installing SP2. There is
>> a different story though, from Symantec who advises people to wait for
>> their patches before installing SP2 on the webpage linked above.
>> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/m...
>>
>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...
>>
>> "Symantec will release a product update to provide native support for the
>> Windows Security Center status utility found in SP2. This update will be
>> available worldwide over the coming weeks and will enable Symantec
>> products to communicate their status to the Windows Security Center
>> utility."
>>
>> Symantec asks you to wait, and in the case of their time table for
>> enterprise editions for a vague range up to 8 weeks:
>>
>> FAQ Running Symantec Client Security
>> http://tinyurl.com/6mfsy
>>
>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/0f75ab1a99...
>>
>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nav.nsf/docid/1999...
>>
>> "Symantec encourages its customers to install the product update prior to
>> installing SP2 in order to avoid incorrect reporting from Windows
>> Security Center."
>>
>> The "security center" for almost everyone who reads and contributes on
>> these two groups is pretty moot, since they don't need that very basic
>> thing to tell them where Technet security links are, or whether their
>> firewall and AV are "on." But many Norton products require work-arounds
>> to make a system scan work (can be obtained as well from any web site and
>> sometimes will work from the command line with SP2 and for some people
>> will not), to make "Live Update" for what it's actually worth work, and
>> to boot up with auto protect on.
>>
>> Actually script blocking and email blocking are duplicative ancillary
>> functions and hype in a Norton/Symantec AV product--not because those
>> things aren't important--but because any engineer who works at Symantec
>> will tell you that Auto-Protect does everything the other two do, and the
>> other two could actually be turned off and you'd still get email scanning
>> and script blocking.
>>
>> Norton Antivirus 2005 actually has a box telling people *explicitly to
>> turn the Windows Firewall in SP2* off as does their Tech Support
>> currently (I spoke with several of them yesterday)--the reason being
>> because NAV 2005 has a little code from their "worm protection" or
>> firewall which competes with the Microsoft Windows firewall. How much
>> firewall is available in NAV 2005 is hard to determine (their new "worm
>> blocking feature.") Obviously it isn't the whole NIS 2005.
>>
>> NAV 2005 for many people who have used it works fine with SP2 until the
>> third boot, and then it has the well known freeze in refresh problem that
>> is addressed sometimes by this Symantec KB which applies to Win XP RTM
>> although it doesn't say so. A lot of Symantec/Norton KBs are labeled
>> forone year's version but the same steps apply to versions of Windows and
>> Norton after 9X. This is corrected by reregistering "jscript.dll" and
>> downloading and reinstalling Windows Script Host 5.6 and other
>> components.
>>
>> The more people they tick off by dragging their feet on compatibility to
>> force sales of 2005 boxes, the better it may be for the new company, "the
>> new security vendor on the block," Microsoft Antivirus.
>>
>> http://news.com.com/Security+vendors+face+new+kid+on+bl...
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Chad Harris
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> "Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:%2317WUfwfEHA.636@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>> The problem in some cases is (1) a previous version of the beta SP2
>> software
>> has been installed, and a program installed during that existence, or (2)
>> a
>> software company hasn't updated their software to work with SP2 yet
>> (example: Norton/Symantec, which is coming out today with an update to
>> fix
>> issues). Otherwise, it is very rare a program will fail.
>> --
>> Chris H.
>> Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
>> Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
>> Associate Expert
>> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>>
>>
>> "KMO" <teardrops@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns95416BD9E3EF4KMO@216.168.3.50...
>>> "Mike Williams [MVP]" <mikew@Nospam]mvps.org> wrote in
>>> news:#5FkhRmfEHA.2764@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl:
>>>
>>>> Some software is known to fail on SP2 due to new security settings.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well that doesn't sound very inviting!
>>
>>
>
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 9:34:38 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize,microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers (More info?)

I''m glad it works for you Sky. But that update relies on Live Update
working. They are refusing to deliver it any other way. And there have
been a lot of Norton KB 1806 errors with a broken LU and SP2.

Chad Harris


"Sky KIng" <laughing@home.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b85a04e7c9fba22989a42@news.snet.sbcglobal.net...
In article <MPG.1b854537176849f5989a3c@news.snet.sbcglobal.net>,
laughing@home.net says...
> In article <Omrhpw2fEHA.3048@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, ddram32
> _nospam@yahoo.com says...
> > Unfortunately, Chris, Norton didn't come out with anything yet for home
> > and
> > small business users on their site and have thus far refused to specify
> > the
> > degree of backwards compatibility that the promiesed and not yet
> > delivered
> > patches for *Norton* products would entail. Although there are go
> > arounds
> > to make SP2 work with any version of Norton product, and some a little
> > bit
> > Byzantine--the routine where you read one Norton KB and click on an icon
> > in
> > Live Update to reveal the next KB to read, followed by a hyperlink in
> > the
> > error message to read the 3rd KB--they all end with uninstalling Norton
> > appropriately I belive and should add to install a product from another
> > company.
> >
> > The webpage that didn't deliver from Norton that has been up all week is
> > this one:
> >
> > http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...
> >
> > They plan whenever this happens (it didn't happen on August 10 as the
> > web
> > page has been announcing all week, to deliver a patch in two parts, the
> > second after a reboot.
> >
> > The importance of SP2 working for enterprises and home was in
> > Microsoft's
> > press release:
> > http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/aug04/08-...
> >
> >
> > "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business
> > and
> > consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to
> > ensure
> > the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst
> > for
> > the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
> > business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because
> > it
> > addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone
> > currently
> > using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest
> > opportunity."
> >
> > The disingenuous comment by Symantec Senior Vice-President Stephen
> > Cullen is
> > here:
> >
> > "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business
> > and
> > consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to
> > ensure
> > the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst
> > for
> > the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
> > business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because
> > it
> > addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone
> > currently
> > using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest
> > opportunity."
> >
> > Actually in *several papers* available at Technetand MSDN, Microsoft
> > urges
> > people to uninstall the antivirus before installing SP2. There is a
> > different story though, from Symantec who advises people to wait for
> > their
> > patches before installing SP2 on the webpage linked above.
> > http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/m...
> >
> > http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...
> >
> > "Symantec will release a product update to provide native support for
> > the
> > Windows Security Center status utility found in SP2. This update will be
> > available worldwide over the coming weeks and will enable Symantec
> > products
> > to communicate their status to the Windows Security Center utility."
> >
> > Symantec asks you to wait, and in the case of their time table for
> > enterprise editions for a vague range up to 8 weeks:
> >
> > FAQ Running Symantec Client Security
> > http://tinyurl.com/6mfsy
> >
> > http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/0f75ab1a99...
> >
> > http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nav.nsf/docid/1999...
> >
> > "Symantec encourages its customers to install the product update prior
> > to
> > installing SP2 in order to avoid incorrect reporting from Windows
> > Security
> > Center."
> >
> > The "security center" for almost everyone who reads and contributes on
> > these
> > two groups is pretty moot, since they don't need that very basic thing
> > to
> > tell them where Technet security links are, or whether their firewall
> > and AV
> > are "on." But many Norton products require work-arounds to make a
> > system
> > scan work (can be obtained as well from any web site and sometimes will
> > work
> > from the command line with SP2 and for some people will not), to make
> > "Live
> > Update" for what it's actually worth work, and to boot up with auto
> > protect
> > on.
> >
> > Actually script blocking and email blocking are duplicative ancillary
> > functions and hype in a Norton/Symantec AV product--not because those
> > things
> > aren't important--but because any engineer who works at Symantec will
> > tell
> > you that Auto-Protect does everything the other two do, and the other
> > two
> > could actually be turned off and you'd still get email scanning and
> > script
> > blocking.
> >
> > Norton Antivirus 2005 actually has a box telling people *explicitly to
> > turn
> > the Windows Firewall in SP2* off as does their Tech Support currently (I
> > spoke with several of them yesterday)--the reason being because NAV 2005
> > has
> > a little code from their "worm protection" or firewall which competes
> > with
> > the Microsoft Windows firewall. How much firewall is available in NAV
> > 2005
> > is hard to determine (their new "worm blocking feature.") Obviously it
> > isn't the whole NIS 2005.
> >
> > NAV 2005 for many people who have used it works fine with SP2 until the
> > third boot, and then it has the well known freeze in refresh problem
> > that is
> > addressed sometimes by this Symantec KB which applies to Win XP RTM
> > although
> > it doesn't say so. A lot of Symantec/Norton KBs are labeled forone
> > year's
> > version but the same steps apply to versions of Windows and Norton after
> > 9X.
> > This is corrected by reregistering "jscript.dll" and downloading and
> > reinstalling Windows Script Host 5.6 and other components.
> >
> > The more people they tick off by dragging their feet on compatibility to
> > force sales of 2005 boxes, the better it may be for the new company,
> > "the
> > new security vendor on the block," Microsoft Antivirus.
> >
> > http://news.com.com/Security+vendors+face+new+kid+on+bl...
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Chad Harris
> > _____________________________________________________________________
> >
> Something new here may help.
> http://winbeta.org/
> Symantec today released an update for Norton Internet Security which
> allows it to integrate properly into the new WindowsXP SP2 Security
> Center. The update allows Windows to alert you if your anti-virus
> definitions are out of date, or if there is a security risk which you
> ordinarily wouldn't know about.
>
>
I ran their update and I am good to go.
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 9:36:58 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

Chris--

They want to use SP2 to sell as many 2005 boxes as they can. They know
Microsoft Antivirus is breathing down their neck, just around the bend.
They know that the SP2 firewall will get a lot better come Longhorn 2007,
and it's not lost on MSFT to deliver all the functionality in their firewall
that ZA or Symantec has in theirs. Other planned significant Longhorn
security features are going to reenforce that that are all over the Longhorn
evangelist and MSDN blogs.

It's up and it's runnin'--after Symantec.

http://news.com.com/Security+vendors+face+new+kid+on+bl...

And it *seems to break for a large number of people Chris.* I don't know
the stats on a reliable sample of boxes. By the way when these problems
happen, the Norton developers wrote Code that says doesn't work with SP2 RTM
Build.

NAV 2005 works fine without any patches, until 3 boots and then you get the
refresh freeze problem which is basically an IE J-script problem/ Windows
Script Host problem fixed some times (but not all) with

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/0f75ab1a99...

whatever version of NAV or NSW or NSI you have.

Again, they are only delivering the SP2 patches for whatever goofy reason
via "Live Update" and not putting them on their site the way 99/100 software
companies including Microsoft put updates at Microsoft Downloads or Office
Downloads besides AU, WUV4, WUV5, and Office Update. Office Update isn't
working for a number of people right now, for ecample, but you can go
straight to the download so you don't really need it at all.

Some people cannot fix Live Update with good 'ole Norton KB 1812 no matter
which order they do what with. Patching Norton via LU first would make
sense and then installing XP SP2 although every last article that MSFT has
released advises to uninstall any AV app and then install SP2.

If Live Update does not work, you can't get the Norton Patches for SP2.

I know every possible fix and go around for the specific problems which are:

1) Won't scan for some people. Norton often recommends using the command
line.
2) Live Update won't work--that'd be Norton KB 1812--doesn't work much of
the time--and the end result is to manually uninstall the app which doesn't
work often.
3) Boots up with auto update off--easily fixed with a right click in the
notification area>Configure Norton and putting the check in when it stays
in.

" I suggest you contact Symantec or Norton with your specifics." I have
done that, and they have no answers for when their stock KBs don't work and
they are seeing more of that situation by the hour. They also have no clue
as to the decision to make their patches available only via Live Udpate and
unobtainalbe if NKB 1812 won't work to fix LU with SP2.

Good suggestion. Been there and done that extensively the last 3 days. I
have their fixes and KBs and patches down. They will admit the don't often
work for SP2 on the phone and this time next week more of them will be
admitting it more often. Just watch the different groups. If you read
that last FAQ posted when there patches for SP2 were released carefully
they say actually nothing of value here:

Q: How will installing SP2 affect the Symantec products I already have
installed.
A: This varies based on the Symantec products that you own.

http://www.symantec.com/techsupp/sp2/faq.html


That's a 2 hour wait as of today for paid support, and getting worse by the
day as more people are ratched into SP2. If it works for a lot of people
Chris, why is Symantec frantically beefing up bodies in their call centers
in Oregon, California and other locations and logging SP2 conflict calls
today even after the patch has been grabbed by LU that are off the wall?
It isn't because most XP users who now have SP2 RTM can't figure out the
hype of the "Windows Security Center gui", because to a person none of them
need that to figure out "What is Tech Net?","What Is Help and Support?", Is
My AV on, Is My Firewall on. That security center meshing is really for
those people who just want to see one place that has an on switch to say
things are OK and on.

The Security Center sure wouldn't take the place of configuring any Norton
app, for example for optimal use.

Chad Harris
__________________________________________





"Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uEFxXY9fEHA.2416@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
Seems to work for a lot of other people after SP2 is installed, Chad. I
suggest you contact Symantec or Norton with your specifics.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone


"Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:o Z0maM9fEHA.1188@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Chris--
>
> I appreciate the Live Update patch came out with their FAQ. One problem
> is that *SP2 breaks Live Update* whether you uninstall Norton and install
> SP2 (as virtually every Microsoft document on SP2 tells you to do) or
> leave Norton/Symantec in. The bottom Line is after a lot of game playing
> and clicking successive links on Live Update, tripping through multiple
> Norton KBs one leading to the next, you have a *LU 1812 error*, whose
> final move is to uninstall NSW or NAV manually and meticulously, and after
> you have exhuasted it's remedies, it won't fix with SP2 RTM period.
>
> The only way they are delivering the compatibiilty patches for SP2 is
> through Live Update. SP2 whether Norton is installed before or after
> breaks Live Udpate and you can't get the patch.
>
> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/sharedtech.nsf/doc...
>
> The part left out on the KB is to install any other antivirus
> product--many will work with SP2.
>
> They are not making any other means avialable to patch Norton other than
> Live Update. If it's broken, and their KBs to fix it often don't, you're
> stuck with scan not working, booting up and having to turn on Auto Protect
> with a right click (minor) and often uninstall problems with Norton
> products. Microsoft tells you to install SP2 first (uninstall NAV) and
> Norton/Symantec tell you to wait until they are updated (in some cases 8
> weeks from now for Enterprise Products according to their enterprise FAQ I
> linked before) before installing SP2.
>
> Microsoft tells you to turn their Windows Firewall on; Norton 2005
> products on the last box before you click finish will tell you in a single
> explicit box to turn it off. NAV 2005 has a piece of NPF or NIS billed as
> "worm protection." How much of a piece and what it actually does compared
> with the Windows firewall that has been criticized with respect to
> outbound traffic still after SP2 RTM is hard to define. Many people are
> finding that the Windows firewall leaves much to be desired right now, as
> you know, but I'm sure it will be a different story come Longhorn in
> 2007.
>
> http://www.symantec.com/techsupp/sp2/faq.html
>
> The answers from Symantec on this FAQ just issued just aren't true in some
> cases. There is the paradox that for many, Live Update doesn't work with
> SP2 and Norton has elected not to deliver their update patches any other
> way. They aren't making them available on their site now. That was a
> goofy choice to say the least. The patch to fix what's broken can't be
> obtained because you are required to use what's broken to get it--that's
> not only ironic and paradoxical--you ain't gonna be able to fix what's
> broken.
>
> Microsoft wants you to put in SP2 before Norton, and if you put in Norton
> first and patch it, SP2 can still break Norton a number of ways. Norton
> 2005 seems to work pretty well with SP2 until you boot 3 times, and then
> you have refresh freezing on all categories on the Norton Integrator or
> gui interface, i.e. you can't tell what's on. You can see that email
> scanning is working. The important thing of course, is that Auto Protect
> is enabled, because in fact Auto Protect includes adequate email scan and
> script blocking to the point you could turn the other two off and be just
> fine according to every Symantec engineer I talked to--so you have to be
> able to determine that Auto Protect is up and running.
>
> I reproduced this and so did others about 25 times.
>
> Sometimes but not all that can be fixed by reregistering jscript.dll, and
> downloading and reinstalling Scripten or the Microsoft Windows Script
> package including the Windows Script Host 5.6 since IE has to function
> correctly to read the Norton interface.
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyI...
>
> This KB applies to any version of NSW or NIS through 2005 with Windows
> versions past 9X. Often Norton doesn't update KBs in version name for
> Windows version, but the Norton/Symantec KB will do the job.
>
> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/0f75ab1a99...
>
> The FAQ says:
>
> "Installing Service Pack 2 will have no affect on Norton Personal Firewall
> or Norton Internet Security."
>
> Some of the FAQ's are vague to the point of covering anything that will
> happen,--I like this one because it avoids saying SP2 can break things
> that are Norton/Symantec and it does.
>
> "How will installing Service Pack 2 affect the Symantec Products I have
> already installed?"
> A. "This varies on the Symantec [Norton as well] products you own." Right.
> Many break.
>
> On many boxes, installing SP2 any build will outright break
> NIS/NPF any version. It will put up a box that says "You're not the
> Norton
> supervisor" and when you put up the Norton Integrator (the box that shows
> what it does with NAV added you can see it but you can't do anything with
> it). You'll not be able to uninstall NIS or NPF from Add/Remove, and
> you'll
> have to use a Norton KB that involves 30-45minutes of using a Norton
> removal tool, thendeleting several GUID keys and other registry keys,
> multiple folders, every Norton file you can track down in ectopic places.
>
>
> "With Service Pack 2 installed, do I even need my Symantec antivirus and
> firewall products? Absolutely."
>
> Norton explicitly tells you to turn the Windows Firewall "*off*" in their
> 2005 products about to release. I wouldn't run two software firewalls or
> more at once, and I don't have data comparing their abilities like
> stateful
> inspection head on with say, ZA, and that info isn't easy to come by now.
> What they didn't say in the FAQ is that when you load Norton or Symantec
> anything, it's going to tell you to turn your Windows Firewall in SP2
> off--last box before "Finished Install."
>
> "Installing Service Pack 2 will have no affect on Norton Personal Firewall
> or Norton Internet Security" Just not the case. SP2 can make it
> difficult to install, and particularly to uninstall Norton products. I
> don't know the numbers in 10,000 boxes for this.
>
>
> I've found this to be totally *untrue* and reproducable that the firewall
> can and will break. Norton also tells you on installation of any 2005
> product to *turn off the Windows firewall*. It's the last box before you
> click "Finish" on the install of the Norton/Symantec 2005 AV, PF, or NIS.
>
> Norton anti-spam is hype and whatever it does can be spelled a dozen ways
> without it.
>
> Norton Go Back reconfigures the Windows Master Boot Record, and I'd just
> as
> soon have someone playing with my elevator lift on the way up the Empire
> State Building--it often has the same effect and unhooking Go Back from a
> botched Windows boot strap mechanism is simply impossible--their tech
> support will tell you they have no clue how and so will MSFT personnel. In
> a high percentage of cases, Go Back will destroy partitions in the Windows
> Operating System and you won't be seeing that particular OS again ever.
> It's refractory to Recovery Console moves or commands and a repair/upgrade
> or parallel install will get nowhere.
>
> SP2 can destroy scans in Norton System works, the ability to make it run
> after boot, and Live Update the same as in Norton Antivirus.
>
> On some people's boxes the security center will monitor it, but how many
> people need the Security Center (none here) need the Security Center to
> tell
> them where Technet is, how to get to Help and Support, or whether their AV
> or Firewall are all. Very few individuals who install a Norton product
> don't adjust it at the Norton product or who are going to be working with
> the Windows Firewall as it evolves and gets better toward Longhorn are
> going
> to be relying on the security center to check on the firewall. My point
> is
> that there are 3 things that happen with multiple versions of NAV that
> don't
> work with SP2--sometimes with the patch update. There are fixes for them,
> and sometimes they don't work. System scans, booting up with Auto Protect
> Off (it usually can be turned on but sometimes can't--and Auto Protect is
> key because it does script blocking/scanning and email scanning--even if
> you
> had them both turned off (they are duplication in Norton/Symantec) auto
> protect will cover that functionality. Live Update will often not work
> with
> SP2 and for those people, they can't update to the patches anyway, because
> Norton has chosen not to make the patches available any alternative way
> which is goofy to say the least.
>
> *Contradiction of Instructions by Microsoft and Symantec/Norton on SP2*
>
> There is also the direct contradiction between Microsoft's instructions
> and
> Norton's. Every place MSFT has an SP2 article at Technet, MSDN, the XP
> Expert Zone or any place on MSFT's site, you are told you should uninstall
> AV to install SP2.
>
> Symantec and Norton explicitly tell you to wait to install SP2 until you
> have updated NAV--and in the case of Symantec patches for enterprise
> security, AV, and firewall products there is a vague timetable projecting
> 8
> weeks out from now for release toward the end of September.
>
> When you install a Symantec or Norton 2005 product, it tells you
> explicitly
> to *turn off the Windows firewall--something I know the Networking team
> and
> SP2 team did not strive to have done. NAV 2005 has a piece of their NIS
> 2005 firewall, so-called "Worm Protection" although how much a piece is
> impossible to quantify unless you are a Symantec engineer who has the
> code.
>
> I do know that Microsoft is definitely developing Microsoft Antivirus
> products, but that the publicity campaign for them is non-existent. I
> would
> bet on Microsoft to produce a superior product to Symantec/Norton in a
> number of ways, including the ridiculous necessity to read 10 Norton KBs
> to
> do a cascade of work arounds to make a product work. Live Update is a
> great
> example. Scans that fail are another. Clicking a plus to go to a drop
> down
> to get a link to get the 5th KB you've used for one Norton problem is like
> a
> childeren's game. Those come into play with SP2.
>
> I personally hope Microsoft puts Norton and Symantec out of business and
> gets their AV product up and running rapidly. I guarantee Symantec is
> looking over their big floundering shoulders.
>
> Best,
>
> Chad Harris
> _________________________________
>
>
>
> "Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:%23Ledkh6fEHA.3348@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Between your post last night, Chad, and early morning (PDT), I'm seeing
> reports of Live Update now downloading the proper fix so the Norton
> Internet
> Security 2004 is now compatible with SP2, and Norton Antivirus is now
> properly reporting to the XP Security Center its status.
> --
> Chris H.
> Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
> Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
> Associate Expert
> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>
>
> "Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:o mrhpw2fEHA.3048@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> Unfortunately, Chris, Norton didn't come out with anything yet for home
>> and small business users on their site and have thus far refused to
>> specify the degree of backwards compatibility that the promiesed and not
>> yet delivered patches for *Norton* products would entail. Although there
>> are go arounds to make SP2 work with any version of Norton product, and
>> some a little bit Byzantine--the routine where you read one Norton KB and
>> click on an icon in Live Update to reveal the next KB to read, followed
>> by a hyperlink in the error message to read the 3rd KB--they all end with
>> uninstalling Norton appropriately I belive and should add to install a
>> product from another company.
>>
>> The webpage that didn't deliver from Norton that has been up all week is
>> this one:
>>
>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...
>>
>> They plan whenever this happens (it didn't happen on August 10 as the web
>> page has been announcing all week, to deliver a patch in two parts, the
>> second after a reboot.
>>
>> The importance of SP2 working for enterprises and home was in Microsoft's
>> press release:
>> http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/aug04/08-...
>>
>>
>> "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business
>> and
>> consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to
>> ensure
>> the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst
>> for
>> the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
>> business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because
>> it
>> addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone
>> currently
>> using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity."
>>
>> The disingenuous comment by Symantec Senior Vice-President Stephen Cullen
>> is here:
>>
>> "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business
>> and
>> consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to
>> ensure
>> the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst
>> for
>> the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
>> business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because
>> it
>> addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone
>> currently
>> using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity."
>>
>> Actually in *several papers* available at Technetand MSDN, Microsoft
>> urges people to uninstall the antivirus before installing SP2. There is
>> a different story though, from Symantec who advises people to wait for
>> their patches before installing SP2 on the webpage linked above.
>> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/m...
>>
>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...
>>
>> "Symantec will release a product update to provide native support for the
>> Windows Security Center status utility found in SP2. This update will be
>> available worldwide over the coming weeks and will enable Symantec
>> products to communicate their status to the Windows Security Center
>> utility."
>>
>> Symantec asks you to wait, and in the case of their time table for
>> enterprise editions for a vague range up to 8 weeks:
>>
>> FAQ Running Symantec Client Security
>> http://tinyurl.com/6mfsy
>>
>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/0f75ab1a99...
>>
>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nav.nsf/docid/1999...
>>
>> "Symantec encourages its customers to install the product update prior to
>> installing SP2 in order to avoid incorrect reporting from Windows
>> Security Center."
>>
>> The "security center" for almost everyone who reads and contributes on
>> these two groups is pretty moot, since they don't need that very basic
>> thing to tell them where Technet security links are, or whether their
>> firewall and AV are "on." But many Norton products require work-arounds
>> to make a system scan work (can be obtained as well from any web site and
>> sometimes will work from the command line with SP2 and for some people
>> will not), to make "Live Update" for what it's actually worth work, and
>> to boot up with auto protect on.
>>
>> Actually script blocking and email blocking are duplicative ancillary
>> functions and hype in a Norton/Symantec AV product--not because those
>> things aren't important--but because any engineer who works at Symantec
>> will tell you that Auto-Protect does everything the other two do, and the
>> other two could actually be turned off and you'd still get email scanning
>> and script blocking.
>>
>> Norton Antivirus 2005 actually has a box telling people *explicitly to
>> turn the Windows Firewall in SP2* off as does their Tech Support
>> currently (I spoke with several of them yesterday)--the reason being
>> because NAV 2005 has a little code from their "worm protection" or
>> firewall which competes with the Microsoft Windows firewall. How much
>> firewall is available in NAV 2005 is hard to determine (their new "worm
>> blocking feature.") Obviously it isn't the whole NIS 2005.
>>
>> NAV 2005 for many people who have used it works fine with SP2 until the
>> third boot, and then it has the well known freeze in refresh problem that
>> is addressed sometimes by this Symantec KB which applies to Win XP RTM
>> although it doesn't say so. A lot of Symantec/Norton KBs are labeled
>> forone year's version but the same steps apply to versions of Windows and
>> Norton after 9X. This is corrected by reregistering "jscript.dll" and
>> downloading and reinstalling Windows Script Host 5.6 and other
>> components.
>>
>> The more people they tick off by dragging their feet on compatibility to
>> force sales of 2005 boxes, the better it may be for the new company, "the
>> new security vendor on the block," Microsoft Antivirus.
>>
>> http://news.com.com/Security+vendors+face+new+kid+on+bl...
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Chad Harris
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> "Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:%2317WUfwfEHA.636@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>> The problem in some cases is (1) a previous version of the beta SP2
>> software
>> has been installed, and a program installed during that existence, or (2)
>> a
>> software company hasn't updated their software to work with SP2 yet
>> (example: Norton/Symantec, which is coming out today with an update to
>> fix
>> issues). Otherwise, it is very rare a program will fail.
>> --
>> Chris H.
>> Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
>> Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
>> Associate Expert
>> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>>
>>
>> "KMO" <teardrops@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns95416BD9E3EF4KMO@216.168.3.50...
>>> "Mike Williams [MVP]" <mikew@Nospam]mvps.org> wrote in
>>> news:#5FkhRmfEHA.2764@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl:
>>>
>>>> Some software is known to fail on SP2 due to new security settings.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well that doesn't sound very inviting!
>>
>>
>
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 9:36:59 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

Chad, I cannot answer for Symantec or what they're doing, except to tell you
I've seen probably 40 to 50 posts raving about how wonderful the product
works now that it is updated. Believe me, there are a lot of beta test
sites which had the worries, and since last night when Live Update kicked
in, they're reporting successes. I still would suggest you bang on
Symantec's door, or take a look in the public windowsxp newsgroups to see
what others have done.

This is an issue of Symantec on Windows XP, not a Tablet PC issue. I wish
we had a magic solution for you, but we don't.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone


"Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eoqjTt%23fEHA.636@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Chris--
>
> They want to use SP2 to sell as many 2005 boxes as they can. They know
> Microsoft Antivirus is breathing down their neck, just around the bend.
> They know that the SP2 firewall will get a lot better come Longhorn 2007,
> and it's not lost on MSFT to deliver all the functionality in their
> firewall that ZA or Symantec has in theirs. Other planned significant
> Longhorn security features are going to reenforce that that are all over
> the Longhorn evangelist and MSDN blogs.
>
> It's up and it's runnin'--after Symantec.
>
> http://news.com.com/Security+vendors+face+new+kid+on+bl...
>
> And it *seems to break for a large number of people Chris.* I don't know
> the stats on a reliable sample of boxes. By the way when these problems
> happen, the Norton developers wrote Code that says doesn't work with SP2
> RTM Build.
>
> NAV 2005 works fine without any patches, until 3 boots and then you get
> the refresh freeze problem which is basically an IE J-script problem/
> Windows Script Host problem fixed some times (but not all) with
>
> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/0f75ab1a99...
>
> whatever version of NAV or NSW or NSI you have.
>
> Again, they are only delivering the SP2 patches for whatever goofy reason
> via "Live Update" and not putting them on their site the way 99/100
> software companies including Microsoft put updates at Microsoft Downloads
> or Office Downloads besides AU, WUV4, WUV5, and Office Update. Office
> Update isn't working for a number of people right now, for ecample, but
> you can go straight to the download so you don't really need it at all.
>
> Some people cannot fix Live Update with good 'ole Norton KB 1812 no matter
> which order they do what with. Patching Norton via LU first would make
> sense and then installing XP SP2 although every last article that MSFT has
> released advises to uninstall any AV app and then install SP2.
>
> If Live Update does not work, you can't get the Norton Patches for SP2.
>
> I know every possible fix and go around for the specific problems which
> are:
>
> 1) Won't scan for some people. Norton often recommends using the command
> line.
> 2) Live Update won't work--that'd be Norton KB 1812--doesn't work much of
> the time--and the end result is to manually uninstall the app which
> doesn't work often.
> 3) Boots up with auto update off--easily fixed with a right click in the
> notification area>Configure Norton and putting the check in when it stays
> in.
>
> " I suggest you contact Symantec or Norton with your specifics." I have
> done that, and they have no answers for when their stock KBs don't work
> and they are seeing more of that situation by the hour. They also have no
> clue as to the decision to make their patches available only via Live
> Udpate and unobtainalbe if NKB 1812 won't work to fix LU with SP2.
>
> Good suggestion. Been there and done that extensively the last 3 days. I
> have their fixes and KBs and patches down. They will admit the don't
> often work for SP2 on the phone and this time next week more of them will
> be admitting it more often. Just watch the different groups. If you
> read that last FAQ posted when there patches for SP2 were released
> carefully they say actually nothing of value here:
>
> Q: How will installing SP2 affect the Symantec products I already have
> installed.
> A: This varies based on the Symantec products that you own.
>
> http://www.symantec.com/techsupp/sp2/faq.html
>
>
> That's a 2 hour wait as of today for paid support, and getting worse by
> the day as more people are ratched into SP2. If it works for a lot of
> people Chris, why is Symantec frantically beefing up bodies in their call
> centers in Oregon, California and other locations and logging SP2 conflict
> calls today even after the patch has been grabbed by LU that are off the
> wall? It isn't because most XP users who now have SP2 RTM can't figure out
> the hype of the "Windows Security Center gui", because to a person none
> of them need that to figure out "What is Tech Net?","What Is Help and
> Support?", Is My AV on, Is My Firewall on. That security center meshing
> is really for those people who just want to see one place that has an on
> switch to say things are OK and on.
>
> The Security Center sure wouldn't take the place of configuring any Norton
> app, for example for optimal use.
>
> Chad Harris
> __________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
> "Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:uEFxXY9fEHA.2416@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Seems to work for a lot of other people after SP2 is installed, Chad. I
> suggest you contact Symantec or Norton with your specifics.
> --
> Chris H.
> Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
> Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
> Associate Expert
> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>
>
> "Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:o Z0maM9fEHA.1188@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
>> Chris--
>>
>> I appreciate the Live Update patch came out with their FAQ. One problem
>> is that *SP2 breaks Live Update* whether you uninstall Norton and install
>> SP2 (as virtually every Microsoft document on SP2 tells you to do) or
>> leave Norton/Symantec in. The bottom Line is after a lot of game playing
>> and clicking successive links on Live Update, tripping through multiple
>> Norton KBs one leading to the next, you have a *LU 1812 error*, whose
>> final move is to uninstall NSW or NAV manually and meticulously, and
>> after you have exhuasted it's remedies, it won't fix with SP2 RTM period.
>>
>> The only way they are delivering the compatibiilty patches for SP2 is
>> through Live Update. SP2 whether Norton is installed before or after
>> breaks Live Udpate and you can't get the patch.
>>
>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/sharedtech.nsf/doc...
>>
>> The part left out on the KB is to install any other antivirus
>> product--many will work with SP2.
>>
>> They are not making any other means avialable to patch Norton other than
>> Live Update. If it's broken, and their KBs to fix it often don't, you're
>> stuck with scan not working, booting up and having to turn on Auto
>> Protect with a right click (minor) and often uninstall problems with
>> Norton products. Microsoft tells you to install SP2 first (uninstall
>> NAV) and Norton/Symantec tell you to wait until they are updated (in some
>> cases 8 weeks from now for Enterprise Products according to their
>> enterprise FAQ I linked before) before installing SP2.
>>
>> Microsoft tells you to turn their Windows Firewall on; Norton 2005
>> products on the last box before you click finish will tell you in a
>> single explicit box to turn it off. NAV 2005 has a piece of NPF or NIS
>> billed as "worm protection." How much of a piece and what it actually
>> does compared with the Windows firewall that has been criticized with
>> respect to outbound traffic still after SP2 RTM is hard to define. Many
>> people are finding that the Windows firewall leaves much to be desired
>> right now, as you know, but I'm sure it will be a different story come
>> Longhorn in 2007.
>>
>> http://www.symantec.com/techsupp/sp2/faq.html
>>
>> The answers from Symantec on this FAQ just issued just aren't true in
>> some cases. There is the paradox that for many, Live Update doesn't work
>> with SP2 and Norton has elected not to deliver their update patches any
>> other way. They aren't making them available on their site now. That was
>> a goofy choice to say the least. The patch to fix what's broken can't be
>> obtained because you are required to use what's broken to get it--that's
>> not only ironic and paradoxical--you ain't gonna be able to fix what's
>> broken.
>>
>> Microsoft wants you to put in SP2 before Norton, and if you put in Norton
>> first and patch it, SP2 can still break Norton a number of ways. Norton
>> 2005 seems to work pretty well with SP2 until you boot 3 times, and then
>> you have refresh freezing on all categories on the Norton Integrator or
>> gui interface, i.e. you can't tell what's on. You can see that email
>> scanning is working. The important thing of course, is that Auto
>> Protect is enabled, because in fact Auto Protect includes adequate email
>> scan and script blocking to the point you could turn the other two off
>> and be just fine according to every Symantec engineer I talked to--so you
>> have to be able to determine that Auto Protect is up and running.
>>
>> I reproduced this and so did others about 25 times.
>>
>> Sometimes but not all that can be fixed by reregistering jscript.dll, and
>> downloading and reinstalling Scripten or the Microsoft Windows Script
>> package including the Windows Script Host 5.6 since IE has to function
>> correctly to read the Norton interface.
>>
>> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyI...
>>
>> This KB applies to any version of NSW or NIS through 2005 with Windows
>> versions past 9X. Often Norton doesn't update KBs in version name for
>> Windows version, but the Norton/Symantec KB will do the job.
>>
>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/0f75ab1a99...
>>
>> The FAQ says:
>>
>> "Installing Service Pack 2 will have no affect on Norton Personal
>> Firewall or Norton Internet Security."
>>
>> Some of the FAQ's are vague to the point of covering anything that will
>> happen,--I like this one because it avoids saying SP2 can break things
>> that are Norton/Symantec and it does.
>>
>> "How will installing Service Pack 2 affect the Symantec Products I have
>> already installed?"
>> A. "This varies on the Symantec [Norton as well] products you own."
>> Right. Many break.
>>
>> On many boxes, installing SP2 any build will outright break
>> NIS/NPF any version. It will put up a box that says "You're not the
>> Norton
>> supervisor" and when you put up the Norton Integrator (the box that shows
>> what it does with NAV added you can see it but you can't do anything with
>> it). You'll not be able to uninstall NIS or NPF from Add/Remove, and
>> you'll
>> have to use a Norton KB that involves 30-45minutes of using a Norton
>> removal tool, thendeleting several GUID keys and other registry keys,
>> multiple folders, every Norton file you can track down in ectopic places.
>>
>>
>> "With Service Pack 2 installed, do I even need my Symantec antivirus and
>> firewall products? Absolutely."
>>
>> Norton explicitly tells you to turn the Windows Firewall "*off*" in their
>> 2005 products about to release. I wouldn't run two software firewalls or
>> more at once, and I don't have data comparing their abilities like
>> stateful
>> inspection head on with say, ZA, and that info isn't easy to come by now.
>> What they didn't say in the FAQ is that when you load Norton or Symantec
>> anything, it's going to tell you to turn your Windows Firewall in SP2
>> off--last box before "Finished Install."
>>
>> "Installing Service Pack 2 will have no affect on Norton Personal
>> Firewall
>> or Norton Internet Security" Just not the case. SP2 can make it
>> difficult to install, and particularly to uninstall Norton products. I
>> don't know the numbers in 10,000 boxes for this.
>>
>>
>> I've found this to be totally *untrue* and reproducable that the firewall
>> can and will break. Norton also tells you on installation of any 2005
>> product to *turn off the Windows firewall*. It's the last box before you
>> click "Finish" on the install of the Norton/Symantec 2005 AV, PF, or NIS.
>>
>> Norton anti-spam is hype and whatever it does can be spelled a dozen ways
>> without it.
>>
>> Norton Go Back reconfigures the Windows Master Boot Record, and I'd just
>> as
>> soon have someone playing with my elevator lift on the way up the Empire
>> State Building--it often has the same effect and unhooking Go Back from a
>> botched Windows boot strap mechanism is simply impossible--their tech
>> support will tell you they have no clue how and so will MSFT personnel.
>> In
>> a high percentage of cases, Go Back will destroy partitions in the
>> Windows
>> Operating System and you won't be seeing that particular OS again ever.
>> It's refractory to Recovery Console moves or commands and a
>> repair/upgrade
>> or parallel install will get nowhere.
>>
>> SP2 can destroy scans in Norton System works, the ability to make it run
>> after boot, and Live Update the same as in Norton Antivirus.
>>
>> On some people's boxes the security center will monitor it, but how many
>> people need the Security Center (none here) need the Security Center to
>> tell
>> them where Technet is, how to get to Help and Support, or whether their
>> AV
>> or Firewall are all. Very few individuals who install a Norton product
>> don't adjust it at the Norton product or who are going to be working with
>> the Windows Firewall as it evolves and gets better toward Longhorn are
>> going
>> to be relying on the security center to check on the firewall. My point
>> is
>> that there are 3 things that happen with multiple versions of NAV that
>> don't
>> work with SP2--sometimes with the patch update. There are fixes for
>> them,
>> and sometimes they don't work. System scans, booting up with Auto
>> Protect
>> Off (it usually can be turned on but sometimes can't--and Auto Protect is
>> key because it does script blocking/scanning and email scanning--even if
>> you
>> had them both turned off (they are duplication in Norton/Symantec) auto
>> protect will cover that functionality. Live Update will often not work
>> with
>> SP2 and for those people, they can't update to the patches anyway,
>> because
>> Norton has chosen not to make the patches available any alternative way
>> which is goofy to say the least.
>>
>> *Contradiction of Instructions by Microsoft and Symantec/Norton on SP2*
>>
>> There is also the direct contradiction between Microsoft's instructions
>> and
>> Norton's. Every place MSFT has an SP2 article at Technet, MSDN, the XP
>> Expert Zone or any place on MSFT's site, you are told you should
>> uninstall
>> AV to install SP2.
>>
>> Symantec and Norton explicitly tell you to wait to install SP2 until you
>> have updated NAV--and in the case of Symantec patches for enterprise
>> security, AV, and firewall products there is a vague timetable projecting
>> 8
>> weeks out from now for release toward the end of September.
>>
>> When you install a Symantec or Norton 2005 product, it tells you
>> explicitly
>> to *turn off the Windows firewall--something I know the Networking team
>> and
>> SP2 team did not strive to have done. NAV 2005 has a piece of their NIS
>> 2005 firewall, so-called "Worm Protection" although how much a piece is
>> impossible to quantify unless you are a Symantec engineer who has the
>> code.
>>
>> I do know that Microsoft is definitely developing Microsoft Antivirus
>> products, but that the publicity campaign for them is non-existent. I
>> would
>> bet on Microsoft to produce a superior product to Symantec/Norton in a
>> number of ways, including the ridiculous necessity to read 10 Norton KBs
>> to
>> do a cascade of work arounds to make a product work. Live Update is a
>> great
>> example. Scans that fail are another. Clicking a plus to go to a drop
>> down
>> to get a link to get the 5th KB you've used for one Norton problem is
>> like a
>> childeren's game. Those come into play with SP2.
>>
>> I personally hope Microsoft puts Norton and Symantec out of business and
>> gets their AV product up and running rapidly. I guarantee Symantec is
>> looking over their big floundering shoulders.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Chad Harris
>> _________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> "Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:%23Ledkh6fEHA.3348@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>> Between your post last night, Chad, and early morning (PDT), I'm seeing
>> reports of Live Update now downloading the proper fix so the Norton
>> Internet
>> Security 2004 is now compatible with SP2, and Norton Antivirus is now
>> properly reporting to the XP Security Center its status.
>> --
>> Chris H.
>> Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
>> Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
>> Associate Expert
>> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>>
>>
>> "Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:o mrhpw2fEHA.3048@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>> Unfortunately, Chris, Norton didn't come out with anything yet for home
>>> and small business users on their site and have thus far refused to
>>> specify the degree of backwards compatibility that the promiesed and not
>>> yet delivered patches for *Norton* products would entail. Although
>>> there are go arounds to make SP2 work with any version of Norton
>>> product, and some a little bit Byzantine--the routine where you read one
>>> Norton KB and click on an icon in Live Update to reveal the next KB to
>>> read, followed by a hyperlink in the error message to read the 3rd
>>> KB--they all end with uninstalling Norton appropriately I belive and
>>> should add to install a product from another company.
>>>
>>> The webpage that didn't deliver from Norton that has been up all week is
>>> this one:
>>>
>>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...
>>>
>>> They plan whenever this happens (it didn't happen on August 10 as the
>>> web page has been announcing all week, to deliver a patch in two parts,
>>> the second after a reboot.
>>>
>>> The importance of SP2 working for enterprises and home was in
>>> Microsoft's press release:
>>> http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/aug04/08-...
>>>
>>>
>>> "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business
>>> and
>>> consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to
>>> ensure
>>> the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst
>>> for
>>> the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
>>> business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because
>>> it
>>> addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone
>>> currently
>>> using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest
>>> opportunity."
>>>
>>> The disingenuous comment by Symantec Senior Vice-President Stephen
>>> Cullen is here:
>>>
>>> "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business
>>> and
>>> consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to
>>> ensure
>>> the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst
>>> for
>>> the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
>>> business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because
>>> it
>>> addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone
>>> currently
>>> using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest
>>> opportunity."
>>>
>>> Actually in *several papers* available at Technetand MSDN, Microsoft
>>> urges people to uninstall the antivirus before installing SP2. There is
>>> a different story though, from Symantec who advises people to wait for
>>> their patches before installing SP2 on the webpage linked above.
>>> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/m...
>>>
>>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...
>>>
>>> "Symantec will release a product update to provide native support for
>>> the Windows Security Center status utility found in SP2. This update
>>> will be available worldwide over the coming weeks and will enable
>>> Symantec products to communicate their status to the Windows Security
>>> Center utility."
>>>
>>> Symantec asks you to wait, and in the case of their time table for
>>> enterprise editions for a vague range up to 8 weeks:
>>>
>>> FAQ Running Symantec Client Security
>>> http://tinyurl.com/6mfsy
>>>
>>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/0f75ab1a99...
>>>
>>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nav.nsf/docid/1999...
>>>
>>> "Symantec encourages its customers to install the product update prior
>>> to installing SP2 in order to avoid incorrect reporting from Windows
>>> Security Center."
>>>
>>> The "security center" for almost everyone who reads and contributes on
>>> these two groups is pretty moot, since they don't need that very basic
>>> thing to tell them where Technet security links are, or whether their
>>> firewall and AV are "on." But many Norton products require work-arounds
>>> to make a system scan work (can be obtained as well from any web site
>>> and sometimes will work from the command line with SP2 and for some
>>> people will not), to make "Live Update" for what it's actually worth
>>> work, and to boot up with auto protect on.
>>>
>>> Actually script blocking and email blocking are duplicative ancillary
>>> functions and hype in a Norton/Symantec AV product--not because those
>>> things aren't important--but because any engineer who works at Symantec
>>> will tell you that Auto-Protect does everything the other two do, and
>>> the other two could actually be turned off and you'd still get email
>>> scanning and script blocking.
>>>
>>> Norton Antivirus 2005 actually has a box telling people *explicitly to
>>> turn the Windows Firewall in SP2* off as does their Tech Support
>>> currently (I spoke with several of them yesterday)--the reason being
>>> because NAV 2005 has a little code from their "worm protection" or
>>> firewall which competes with the Microsoft Windows firewall. How much
>>> firewall is available in NAV 2005 is hard to determine (their new "worm
>>> blocking feature.") Obviously it isn't the whole NIS 2005.
>>>
>>> NAV 2005 for many people who have used it works fine with SP2 until the
>>> third boot, and then it has the well known freeze in refresh problem
>>> that is addressed sometimes by this Symantec KB which applies to Win XP
>>> RTM although it doesn't say so. A lot of Symantec/Norton KBs are
>>> labeled forone year's version but the same steps apply to versions of
>>> Windows and Norton after 9X. This is corrected by reregistering
>>> "jscript.dll" and downloading and reinstalling Windows Script Host 5.6
>>> and other components.
>>>
>>> The more people they tick off by dragging their feet on compatibility to
>>> force sales of 2005 boxes, the better it may be for the new company,
>>> "the new security vendor on the block," Microsoft Antivirus.
>>>
>>> http://news.com.com/Security+vendors+face+new+kid+on+bl...
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Chad Harris
>>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:%2317WUfwfEHA.636@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>>> The problem in some cases is (1) a previous version of the beta SP2
>>> software
>>> has been installed, and a program installed during that existence, or
>>> (2) a
>>> software company hasn't updated their software to work with SP2 yet
>>> (example: Norton/Symantec, which is coming out today with an update to
>>> fix
>>> issues). Otherwise, it is very rare a program will fail.
>>> --
>>> Chris H.
>>> Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
>>> Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
>>> Associate Expert
>>> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>>>
>>>
>>> "KMO" <teardrops@aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns95416BD9E3EF4KMO@216.168.3.50...
>>>> "Mike Williams [MVP]" <mikew@Nospam]mvps.org> wrote in
>>>> news:#5FkhRmfEHA.2764@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl:
>>>>
>>>>> Some software is known to fail on SP2 due to new security settings.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well that doesn't sound very inviting!
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 9:37:00 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

As an addendum, I might add that it seems to be people running the 2003
version. Of course, Symantec would like you to pay to upgrade to their 2004
version which doesn't seem to have issues. 8-)
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone


"Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uGVpoF$fEHA.140@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Chad, I cannot answer for Symantec or what they're doing, except to tell
> you I've seen probably 40 to 50 posts raving about how wonderful the
> product works now that it is updated. Believe me, there are a lot of beta
> test sites which had the worries, and since last night when Live Update
> kicked in, they're reporting successes. I still would suggest you bang on
> Symantec's door, or take a look in the public windowsxp newsgroups to see
> what others have done.
>
> This is an issue of Symantec on Windows XP, not a Tablet PC issue. I wish
> we had a magic solution for you, but we don't.
> --
> Chris H.
> Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
> Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
> Associate Expert
> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>
>
> "Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:eoqjTt%23fEHA.636@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>> Chris--
>>
>> They want to use SP2 to sell as many 2005 boxes as they can. They know
>> Microsoft Antivirus is breathing down their neck, just around the bend.
>> They know that the SP2 firewall will get a lot better come Longhorn 2007,
>> and it's not lost on MSFT to deliver all the functionality in their
>> firewall that ZA or Symantec has in theirs. Other planned significant
>> Longhorn security features are going to reenforce that that are all over
>> the Longhorn evangelist and MSDN blogs.
>>
>> It's up and it's runnin'--after Symantec.
>>
>> http://news.com.com/Security+vendors+face+new+kid+on+bl...
>>
>> And it *seems to break for a large number of people Chris.* I don't know
>> the stats on a reliable sample of boxes. By the way when these problems
>> happen, the Norton developers wrote Code that says doesn't work with SP2
>> RTM Build.
>>
>> NAV 2005 works fine without any patches, until 3 boots and then you get
>> the refresh freeze problem which is basically an IE J-script problem/
>> Windows Script Host problem fixed some times (but not all) with
>>
>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/0f75ab1a99...
>>
>> whatever version of NAV or NSW or NSI you have.
>>
>> Again, they are only delivering the SP2 patches for whatever goofy reason
>> via "Live Update" and not putting them on their site the way 99/100
>> software companies including Microsoft put updates at Microsoft Downloads
>> or Office Downloads besides AU, WUV4, WUV5, and Office Update. Office
>> Update isn't working for a number of people right now, for ecample, but
>> you can go straight to the download so you don't really need it at all.
>>
>> Some people cannot fix Live Update with good 'ole Norton KB 1812 no
>> matter which order they do what with. Patching Norton via LU first would
>> make sense and then installing XP SP2 although every last article that
>> MSFT has released advises to uninstall any AV app and then install SP2.
>>
>> If Live Update does not work, you can't get the Norton Patches for SP2.
>>
>> I know every possible fix and go around for the specific problems which
>> are:
>>
>> 1) Won't scan for some people. Norton often recommends using the command
>> line.
>> 2) Live Update won't work--that'd be Norton KB 1812--doesn't work much of
>> the time--and the end result is to manually uninstall the app which
>> doesn't work often.
>> 3) Boots up with auto update off--easily fixed with a right click in the
>> notification area>Configure Norton and putting the check in when it stays
>> in.
>>
>> " I suggest you contact Symantec or Norton with your specifics." I have
>> done that, and they have no answers for when their stock KBs don't work
>> and they are seeing more of that situation by the hour. They also have
>> no clue as to the decision to make their patches available only via Live
>> Udpate and unobtainalbe if NKB 1812 won't work to fix LU with SP2.
>>
>> Good suggestion. Been there and done that extensively the last 3 days.
>> I have their fixes and KBs and patches down. They will admit the don't
>> often work for SP2 on the phone and this time next week more of them will
>> be admitting it more often. Just watch the different groups. If you
>> read that last FAQ posted when there patches for SP2 were released
>> carefully they say actually nothing of value here:
>>
>> Q: How will installing SP2 affect the Symantec products I already have
>> installed.
>> A: This varies based on the Symantec products that you own.
>>
>> http://www.symantec.com/techsupp/sp2/faq.html
>>
>>
>> That's a 2 hour wait as of today for paid support, and getting worse by
>> the day as more people are ratched into SP2. If it works for a lot of
>> people Chris, why is Symantec frantically beefing up bodies in their call
>> centers in Oregon, California and other locations and logging SP2
>> conflict calls today even after the patch has been grabbed by LU that are
>> off the wall? It isn't because most XP users who now have SP2 RTM can't
>> figure out the hype of the "Windows Security Center gui", because to a
>> person none of them need that to figure out "What is Tech Net?","What Is
>> Help and Support?", Is My AV on, Is My Firewall on. That security center
>> meshing is really for those people who just want to see one place that
>> has an on switch to say things are OK and on.
>>
>> The Security Center sure wouldn't take the place of configuring any
>> Norton app, for example for optimal use.
>>
>> Chad Harris
>> __________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:uEFxXY9fEHA.2416@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> Seems to work for a lot of other people after SP2 is installed, Chad. I
>> suggest you contact Symantec or Norton with your specifics.
>> --
>> Chris H.
>> Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
>> Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
>> Associate Expert
>> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>>
>>
>> "Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:o Z0maM9fEHA.1188@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
>>> Chris--
>>>
>>> I appreciate the Live Update patch came out with their FAQ. One problem
>>> is that *SP2 breaks Live Update* whether you uninstall Norton and
>>> install SP2 (as virtually every Microsoft document on SP2 tells you to
>>> do) or leave Norton/Symantec in. The bottom Line is after a lot of game
>>> playing and clicking successive links on Live Update, tripping through
>>> multiple Norton KBs one leading to the next, you have a *LU 1812
>>> error*, whose final move is to uninstall NSW or NAV manually and
>>> meticulously, and after you have exhuasted it's remedies, it won't fix
>>> with SP2 RTM period.
>>>
>>> The only way they are delivering the compatibiilty patches for SP2 is
>>> through Live Update. SP2 whether Norton is installed before or after
>>> breaks Live Udpate and you can't get the patch.
>>>
>>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/sharedtech.nsf/doc...
>>>
>>> The part left out on the KB is to install any other antivirus
>>> product--many will work with SP2.
>>>
>>> They are not making any other means avialable to patch Norton other than
>>> Live Update. If it's broken, and their KBs to fix it often don't,
>>> you're stuck with scan not working, booting up and having to turn on
>>> Auto Protect with a right click (minor) and often uninstall problems
>>> with Norton products. Microsoft tells you to install SP2 first
>>> (uninstall NAV) and Norton/Symantec tell you to wait until they are
>>> updated (in some cases 8 weeks from now for Enterprise Products
>>> according to their enterprise FAQ I linked before) before installing
>>> SP2.
>>>
>>> Microsoft tells you to turn their Windows Firewall on; Norton 2005
>>> products on the last box before you click finish will tell you in a
>>> single explicit box to turn it off. NAV 2005 has a piece of NPF or NIS
>>> billed as "worm protection." How much of a piece and what it actually
>>> does compared with the Windows firewall that has been criticized with
>>> respect to outbound traffic still after SP2 RTM is hard to define.
>>> Many people are finding that the Windows firewall leaves much to be
>>> desired right now, as you know, but I'm sure it will be a different
>>> story come Longhorn in 2007.
>>>
>>> http://www.symantec.com/techsupp/sp2/faq.html
>>>
>>> The answers from Symantec on this FAQ just issued just aren't true in
>>> some cases. There is the paradox that for many, Live Update doesn't
>>> work with SP2 and Norton has elected not to deliver their update patches
>>> any other way. They aren't making them available on their site now.
>>> That was a goofy choice to say the least. The patch to fix what's
>>> broken can't be obtained because you are required to use what's broken
>>> to get it--that's not only ironic and paradoxical--you ain't gonna be
>>> able to fix what's broken.
>>>
>>> Microsoft wants you to put in SP2 before Norton, and if you put in
>>> Norton first and patch it, SP2 can still break Norton a number of ways.
>>> Norton 2005 seems to work pretty well with SP2 until you boot 3 times,
>>> and then you have refresh freezing on all categories on the Norton
>>> Integrator or gui interface, i.e. you can't tell what's on. You can
>>> see that email scanning is working. The important thing of course, is
>>> that Auto Protect is enabled, because in fact Auto Protect includes
>>> adequate email scan and script blocking to the point you could turn the
>>> other two off and be just fine according to every Symantec engineer I
>>> talked to--so you have to be able to determine that Auto Protect is up
>>> and running.
>>>
>>> I reproduced this and so did others about 25 times.
>>>
>>> Sometimes but not all that can be fixed by reregistering jscript.dll,
>>> and downloading and reinstalling Scripten or the Microsoft Windows
>>> Script package including the Windows Script Host 5.6 since IE has to
>>> function correctly to read the Norton interface.
>>>
>>> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyI...
>>>
>>> This KB applies to any version of NSW or NIS through 2005 with Windows
>>> versions past 9X. Often Norton doesn't update KBs in version name for
>>> Windows version, but the Norton/Symantec KB will do the job.
>>>
>>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/0f75ab1a99...
>>>
>>> The FAQ says:
>>>
>>> "Installing Service Pack 2 will have no affect on Norton Personal
>>> Firewall or Norton Internet Security."
>>>
>>> Some of the FAQ's are vague to the point of covering anything that will
>>> happen,--I like this one because it avoids saying SP2 can break things
>>> that are Norton/Symantec and it does.
>>>
>>> "How will installing Service Pack 2 affect the Symantec Products I have
>>> already installed?"
>>> A. "This varies on the Symantec [Norton as well] products you own."
>>> Right. Many break.
>>>
>>> On many boxes, installing SP2 any build will outright break
>>> NIS/NPF any version. It will put up a box that says "You're not the
>>> Norton
>>> supervisor" and when you put up the Norton Integrator (the box that
>>> shows
>>> what it does with NAV added you can see it but you can't do anything
>>> with
>>> it). You'll not be able to uninstall NIS or NPF from Add/Remove, and
>>> you'll
>>> have to use a Norton KB that involves 30-45minutes of using a Norton
>>> removal tool, thendeleting several GUID keys and other registry keys,
>>> multiple folders, every Norton file you can track down in ectopic
>>> places.
>>>
>>>
>>> "With Service Pack 2 installed, do I even need my Symantec antivirus and
>>> firewall products? Absolutely."
>>>
>>> Norton explicitly tells you to turn the Windows Firewall "*off*" in
>>> their
>>> 2005 products about to release. I wouldn't run two software firewalls
>>> or
>>> more at once, and I don't have data comparing their abilities like
>>> stateful
>>> inspection head on with say, ZA, and that info isn't easy to come by
>>> now.
>>> What they didn't say in the FAQ is that when you load Norton or
>>> Symantec
>>> anything, it's going to tell you to turn your Windows Firewall in SP2
>>> off--last box before "Finished Install."
>>>
>>> "Installing Service Pack 2 will have no affect on Norton Personal
>>> Firewall
>>> or Norton Internet Security" Just not the case. SP2 can make it
>>> difficult to install, and particularly to uninstall Norton products. I
>>> don't know the numbers in 10,000 boxes for this.
>>>
>>>
>>> I've found this to be totally *untrue* and reproducable that the
>>> firewall
>>> can and will break. Norton also tells you on installation of any 2005
>>> product to *turn off the Windows firewall*. It's the last box before
>>> you
>>> click "Finish" on the install of the Norton/Symantec 2005 AV, PF, or
>>> NIS.
>>>
>>> Norton anti-spam is hype and whatever it does can be spelled a dozen
>>> ways
>>> without it.
>>>
>>> Norton Go Back reconfigures the Windows Master Boot Record, and I'd just
>>> as
>>> soon have someone playing with my elevator lift on the way up the
>>> Empire
>>> State Building--it often has the same effect and unhooking Go Back from
>>> a
>>> botched Windows boot strap mechanism is simply impossible--their tech
>>> support will tell you they have no clue how and so will MSFT personnel.
>>> In
>>> a high percentage of cases, Go Back will destroy partitions in the
>>> Windows
>>> Operating System and you won't be seeing that particular OS again ever.
>>> It's refractory to Recovery Console moves or commands and a
>>> repair/upgrade
>>> or parallel install will get nowhere.
>>>
>>> SP2 can destroy scans in Norton System works, the ability to make it run
>>> after boot, and Live Update the same as in Norton Antivirus.
>>>
>>> On some people's boxes the security center will monitor it, but how many
>>> people need the Security Center (none here) need the Security Center to
>>> tell
>>> them where Technet is, how to get to Help and Support, or whether their
>>> AV
>>> or Firewall are all. Very few individuals who install a Norton product
>>> don't adjust it at the Norton product or who are going to be working
>>> with
>>> the Windows Firewall as it evolves and gets better toward Longhorn are
>>> going
>>> to be relying on the security center to check on the firewall. My point
>>> is
>>> that there are 3 things that happen with multiple versions of NAV that
>>> don't
>>> work with SP2--sometimes with the patch update. There are fixes for
>>> them,
>>> and sometimes they don't work. System scans, booting up with Auto
>>> Protect
>>> Off (it usually can be turned on but sometimes can't--and Auto Protect
>>> is
>>> key because it does script blocking/scanning and email scanning--even if
>>> you
>>> had them both turned off (they are duplication in Norton/Symantec) auto
>>> protect will cover that functionality. Live Update will often not work
>>> with
>>> SP2 and for those people, they can't update to the patches anyway,
>>> because
>>> Norton has chosen not to make the patches available any alternative way
>>> which is goofy to say the least.
>>>
>>> *Contradiction of Instructions by Microsoft and Symantec/Norton on SP2*
>>>
>>> There is also the direct contradiction between Microsoft's instructions
>>> and
>>> Norton's. Every place MSFT has an SP2 article at Technet, MSDN, the XP
>>> Expert Zone or any place on MSFT's site, you are told you should
>>> uninstall
>>> AV to install SP2.
>>>
>>> Symantec and Norton explicitly tell you to wait to install SP2 until you
>>> have updated NAV--and in the case of Symantec patches for enterprise
>>> security, AV, and firewall products there is a vague timetable
>>> projecting 8
>>> weeks out from now for release toward the end of September.
>>>
>>> When you install a Symantec or Norton 2005 product, it tells you
>>> explicitly
>>> to *turn off the Windows firewall--something I know the Networking team
>>> and
>>> SP2 team did not strive to have done. NAV 2005 has a piece of their
>>> NIS
>>> 2005 firewall, so-called "Worm Protection" although how much a piece is
>>> impossible to quantify unless you are a Symantec engineer who has the
>>> code.
>>>
>>> I do know that Microsoft is definitely developing Microsoft Antivirus
>>> products, but that the publicity campaign for them is non-existent. I
>>> would
>>> bet on Microsoft to produce a superior product to Symantec/Norton in a
>>> number of ways, including the ridiculous necessity to read 10 Norton KBs
>>> to
>>> do a cascade of work arounds to make a product work. Live Update is a
>>> great
>>> example. Scans that fail are another. Clicking a plus to go to a drop
>>> down
>>> to get a link to get the 5th KB you've used for one Norton problem is
>>> like a
>>> childeren's game. Those come into play with SP2.
>>>
>>> I personally hope Microsoft puts Norton and Symantec out of business
>>> and gets their AV product up and running rapidly. I guarantee Symantec
>>> is looking over their big floundering shoulders.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Chad Harris
>>> _________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:%23Ledkh6fEHA.3348@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>>> Between your post last night, Chad, and early morning (PDT), I'm seeing
>>> reports of Live Update now downloading the proper fix so the Norton
>>> Internet
>>> Security 2004 is now compatible with SP2, and Norton Antivirus is now
>>> properly reporting to the XP Security Center its status.
>>> --
>>> Chris H.
>>> Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
>>> Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
>>> Associate Expert
>>> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>>>
>>>
>>> "Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:o mrhpw2fEHA.3048@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>>> Unfortunately, Chris, Norton didn't come out with anything yet for home
>>>> and small business users on their site and have thus far refused to
>>>> specify the degree of backwards compatibility that the promiesed and
>>>> not yet delivered patches for *Norton* products would entail. Although
>>>> there are go arounds to make SP2 work with any version of Norton
>>>> product, and some a little bit Byzantine--the routine where you read
>>>> one Norton KB and click on an icon in Live Update to reveal the next KB
>>>> to read, followed by a hyperlink in the error message to read the 3rd
>>>> KB--they all end with uninstalling Norton appropriately I belive and
>>>> should add to install a product from another company.
>>>>
>>>> The webpage that didn't deliver from Norton that has been up all week
>>>> is this one:
>>>>
>>>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...
>>>>
>>>> They plan whenever this happens (it didn't happen on August 10 as the
>>>> web page has been announcing all week, to deliver a patch in two parts,
>>>> the second after a reboot.
>>>>
>>>> The importance of SP2 working for enterprises and home was in
>>>> Microsoft's press release:
>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/aug04/08-...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business
>>>> and
>>>> consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to
>>>> ensure
>>>> the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal
>>>> analyst for
>>>> the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
>>>> business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical
>>>> because it
>>>> addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone
>>>> currently
>>>> using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest
>>>> opportunity."
>>>>
>>>> The disingenuous comment by Symantec Senior Vice-President Stephen
>>>> Cullen is here:
>>>>
>>>> "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business
>>>> and
>>>> consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to
>>>> ensure
>>>> the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal
>>>> analyst for
>>>> the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
>>>> business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical
>>>> because it
>>>> addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone
>>>> currently
>>>> using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest
>>>> opportunity."
>>>>
>>>> Actually in *several papers* available at Technetand MSDN, Microsoft
>>>> urges people to uninstall the antivirus before installing SP2. There
>>>> is a different story though, from Symantec who advises people to wait
>>>> for their patches before installing SP2 on the webpage linked above.
>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/m...
>>>>
>>>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...
>>>>
>>>> "Symantec will release a product update to provide native support for
>>>> the Windows Security Center status utility found in SP2. This update
>>>> will be available worldwide over the coming weeks and will enable
>>>> Symantec products to communicate their status to the Windows Security
>>>> Center utility."
>>>>
>>>> Symantec asks you to wait, and in the case of their time table for
>>>> enterprise editions for a vague range up to 8 weeks:
>>>>
>>>> FAQ Running Symantec Client Security
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/6mfsy
>>>>
>>>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/0f75ab1a99...
>>>>
>>>> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nav.nsf/docid/1999...
>>>>
>>>> "Symantec encourages its customers to install the product update prior
>>>> to installing SP2 in order to avoid incorrect reporting from Windows
>>>> Security Center."
>>>>
>>>> The "security center" for almost everyone who reads and contributes on
>>>> these two groups is pretty moot, since they don't need that very basic
>>>> thing to tell them where Technet security links are, or whether their
>>>> firewall and AV are "on." But many Norton products require
>>>> work-arounds to make a system scan work (can be obtained as well from
>>>> any web site and sometimes will work from the command line with SP2 and
>>>> for some people will not), to make "Live Update" for what it's actually
>>>> worth work, and to boot up with auto protect on.
>>>>
>>>> Actually script blocking and email blocking are duplicative ancillary
>>>> functions and hype in a Norton/Symantec AV product--not because those
>>>> things aren't important--but because any engineer who works at Symantec
>>>> will tell you that Auto-Protect does everything the other two do, and
>>>> the other two could actually be turned off and you'd still get email
>>>> scanning and script blocking.
>>>>
>>>> Norton Antivirus 2005 actually has a box telling people *explicitly to
>>>> turn the Windows Firewall in SP2* off as does their Tech Support
>>>> currently (I spoke with several of them yesterday)--the reason being
>>>> because NAV 2005 has a little code from their "worm protection" or
>>>> firewall which competes with the Microsoft Windows firewall. How much
>>>> firewall is available in NAV 2005 is hard to determine (their new "worm
>>>> blocking feature.") Obviously it isn't the whole NIS 2005.
>>>>
>>>> NAV 2005 for many people who have used it works fine with SP2 until the
>>>> third boot, and then it has the well known freeze in refresh problem
>>>> that is addressed sometimes by this Symantec KB which applies to Win XP
>>>> RTM although it doesn't say so. A lot of Symantec/Norton KBs are
>>>> labeled forone year's version but the same steps apply to versions of
>>>> Windows and Norton after 9X. This is corrected by reregistering
>>>> "jscript.dll" and downloading and reinstalling Windows Script Host 5.6
>>>> and other components.
>>>>
>>>> The more people they tick off by dragging their feet on compatibility
>>>> to force sales of 2005 boxes, the better it may be for the new company,
>>>> "the new security vendor on the block," Microsoft Antivirus.
>>>>
>>>> http://news.com.com/Security+vendors+face+new+kid+on+bl...
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Chad Harris
>>>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:%2317WUfwfEHA.636@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>>>> The problem in some cases is (1) a previous version of the beta SP2
>>>> software
>>>> has been installed, and a program installed during that existence, or
>>>> (2) a
>>>> software company hasn't updated their software to work with SP2 yet
>>>> (example: Norton/Symantec, which is coming out today with an update to
>>>> fix
>>>> issues). Otherwise, it is very rare a program will fail.
>>>> --
>>>> Chris H.
>>>> Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
>>>> Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
>>>> Associate Expert
>>>> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "KMO" <teardrops@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:Xns95416BD9E3EF4KMO@216.168.3.50...
>>>>> "Mike Williams [MVP]" <mikew@Nospam]mvps.org> wrote in
>>>>> news:#5FkhRmfEHA.2764@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Some software is known to fail on SP2 due to new security settings.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well that doesn't sound very inviting!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
August 11, 2004 9:55:22 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize,microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers (More info?)

I've both NIS and Systemworks installed.
I don't see your problem.
Install SP2 then turn off the Microsoft firewall and Microsoft security
center under services.
You do not need the Microsoft security center turned on and running if these
Symantec apps are running and set to auto update.
The security center is nothing more than a red light for idiots who don't
have a firewall or an antivirus installed and don't bother to keep them
updated.
Idiots will still run this red light and that's a fact.
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 11:48:13 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

Now I am confused,

I use Norton Internet Security 2004 - are you telling me not to install SP2
?

David


"Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:o Z0maM9fEHA.1188@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Chris--
>
> I appreciate the Live Update patch came out with their FAQ. One problem
is
> that *SP2 breaks Live Update* whether you uninstall Norton and install SP2
> (as virtually every Microsoft document on SP2 tells you to do) or leave
> Norton/Symantec in. The bottom Line is after a lot of game playing and
> clicking successive links on Live Update, tripping through multiple Norton
> KBs one leading to the next, you have a *LU 1812 error*, whose final move
> is to uninstall NSW or NAV manually and meticulously, and after you have
> exhuasted it's remedies, it won't fix with SP2 RTM period.
>
> The only way they are delivering the compatibiilty patches for SP2 is
> through Live Update. SP2 whether Norton is installed before or after
breaks
> Live Udpate and you can't get the patch.
>
>
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/sharedtech.nsf/doc...
>
> The part left out on the KB is to install any other antivirus
product--many
> will work with SP2.
>
> They are not making any other means avialable to patch Norton other than
> Live Update. If it's broken, and their KBs to fix it often don't, you're
> stuck with scan not working, booting up and having to turn on Auto Protect
> with a right click (minor) and often uninstall problems with Norton
> products. Microsoft tells you to install SP2 first (uninstall NAV) and
> Norton/Symantec tell you to wait until they are updated (in some cases 8
> weeks from now for Enterprise Products according to their enterprise FAQ I
> linked before) before installing SP2.
>
> Microsoft tells you to turn their Windows Firewall on; Norton 2005
products
> on the last box before you click finish will tell you in a single explicit
> box to turn it off. NAV 2005 has a piece of NPF or NIS billed as "worm
> protection." How much of a piece and what it actually does compared with
> the Windows firewall that has been criticized with respect to outbound
> traffic still after SP2 RTM is hard to define. Many people are finding
> that the Windows firewall leaves much to be desired right now, as you
know,
> but I'm sure it will be a different story come Longhorn in 2007.
>
> http://www.symantec.com/techsupp/sp2/faq.html
>
> The answers from Symantec on this FAQ just issued just aren't true in some
> cases. There is the paradox that for many, Live Update doesn't work with
> SP2 and Norton has elected not to deliver their update patches any other
> way. They aren't making them available on their site now. That was a
goofy
> choice to say the least. The patch to fix what's broken can't be obtained
> because you are required to use what's broken to get it--that's not only
> ironic and paradoxical--you ain't gonna be able to fix what's broken.
>
> Microsoft wants you to put in SP2 before Norton, and if you put in Norton
> first and patch it, SP2 can still break Norton a number of ways. Norton
> 2005 seems to work pretty well with SP2 until you boot 3 times, and then
you
> have refresh freezing on all categories on the Norton Integrator or gui
> interface, i.e. you can't tell what's on. You can see that email
scanning
> is working. The important thing of course, is that Auto Protect is
> enabled, because in fact Auto Protect includes adequate email scan and
> script blocking to the point you could turn the other two off and be just
> fine according to every Symantec engineer I talked to--so you have to be
> able to determine that Auto Protect is up and running.
>
> I reproduced this and so did others about 25 times.
>
> Sometimes but not all that can be fixed by reregistering jscript.dll, and
> downloading and reinstalling Scripten or the Microsoft Windows Script
> package including the Windows Script Host 5.6 since IE has to function
> correctly to read the Norton interface.
>
>
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyI...
>
> This KB applies to any version of NSW or NIS through 2005 with Windows
> versions past 9X. Often Norton doesn't update KBs in version name for
> Windows version, but the Norton/Symantec KB will do the job.
>
>
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/0f75ab1a99...
>
> The FAQ says:
>
> "Installing Service Pack 2 will have no affect on Norton Personal Firewall
> or Norton Internet Security."
>
> Some of the FAQ's are vague to the point of covering anything that will
> happen,--I like this one because it avoids saying SP2 can break things
that
> are Norton/Symantec and it does.
>
> "How will installing Service Pack 2 affect the Symantec Products I have
> already installed?"
> A. "This varies on the Symantec [Norton as well] products you own."
Right.
> Many break.
>
> On many boxes, installing SP2 any build will outright break
> NIS/NPF any version. It will put up a box that says "You're not the
Norton
> supervisor" and when you put up the Norton Integrator (the box that shows
> what it does with NAV added you can see it but you can't do anything with
> it). You'll not be able to uninstall NIS or NPF from Add/Remove, and
you'll
> have to use a Norton KB that involves 30-45minutes of using a Norton
> removal tool, thendeleting several GUID keys and other registry keys,
> multiple folders, every Norton file you can track down in ectopic places.
>
>
> "With Service Pack 2 installed, do I even need my Symantec antivirus and
> firewall products? Absolutely."
>
> Norton explicitly tells you to turn the Windows Firewall "*off*" in their
> 2005 products about to release. I wouldn't run two software firewalls or
> more at once, and I don't have data comparing their abilities like
stateful
> inspection head on with say, ZA, and that info isn't easy to come by now.
> What they didn't say in the FAQ is that when you load Norton or Symantec
> anything, it's going to tell you to turn your Windows Firewall in SP2
> off--last box before "Finished Install."
>
> "Installing Service Pack 2 will have no affect on Norton Personal Firewall
> or Norton Internet Security" Just not the case. SP2 can make it
difficult
> to install, and particularly to uninstall Norton products. I don't know
> the numbers in 10,000 boxes for this.
>
>
> I've found this to be totally *untrue* and reproducable that the firewall
> can and will break. Norton also tells you on installation of any 2005
> product to *turn off the Windows firewall*. It's the last box before you
> click "Finish" on the install of the Norton/Symantec 2005 AV, PF, or NIS.
>
> Norton anti-spam is hype and whatever it does can be spelled a dozen ways
> without it.
>
> Norton Go Back reconfigures the Windows Master Boot Record, and I'd just
as
> soon have someone playing with my elevator lift on the way up the Empire
> State Building--it often has the same effect and unhooking Go Back from a
> botched Windows boot strap mechanism is simply impossible--their tech
> support will tell you they have no clue how and so will MSFT personnel.
In
> a high percentage of cases, Go Back will destroy partitions in the Windows
> Operating System and you won't be seeing that particular OS again ever.
> It's refractory to Recovery Console moves or commands and a repair/upgrade
> or parallel install will get nowhere.
>
> SP2 can destroy scans in Norton System works, the ability to make it run
> after boot, and Live Update the same as in Norton Antivirus.
>
> On some people's boxes the security center will monitor it, but how many
> people need the Security Center (none here) need the Security Center to
tell
> them where Technet is, how to get to Help and Support, or whether their AV
> or Firewall are all. Very few individuals who install a Norton product
> don't adjust it at the Norton product or who are going to be working with
> the Windows Firewall as it evolves and gets better toward Longhorn are
going
> to be relying on the security center to check on the firewall. My point
is
> that there are 3 things that happen with multiple versions of NAV that
don't
> work with SP2--sometimes with the patch update. There are fixes for them,
> and sometimes they don't work. System scans, booting up with Auto Protect
> Off (it usually can be turned on but sometimes can't--and Auto Protect is
> key because it does script blocking/scanning and email scanning--even if
you
> had them both turned off (they are duplication in Norton/Symantec) auto
> protect will cover that functionality. Live Update will often not work
with
> SP2 and for those people, they can't update to the patches anyway, because
> Norton has chosen not to make the patches available any alternative way
> which is goofy to say the least.
>
> *Contradiction of Instructions by Microsoft and Symantec/Norton on SP2*
>
> There is also the direct contradiction between Microsoft's instructions
and
> Norton's. Every place MSFT has an SP2 article at Technet, MSDN, the XP
> Expert Zone or any place on MSFT's site, you are told you should uninstall
> AV to install SP2.
>
> Symantec and Norton explicitly tell you to wait to install SP2 until you
> have updated NAV--and in the case of Symantec patches for enterprise
> security, AV, and firewall products there is a vague timetable projecting
8
> weeks out from now for release toward the end of September.
>
> When you install a Symantec or Norton 2005 product, it tells you
explicitly
> to *turn off the Windows firewall--something I know the Networking team
and
> SP2 team did not strive to have done. NAV 2005 has a piece of their NIS
> 2005 firewall, so-called "Worm Protection" although how much a piece is
> impossible to quantify unless you are a Symantec engineer who has the
code.
>
> I do know that Microsoft is definitely developing Microsoft Antivirus
> products, but that the publicity campaign for them is non-existent. I
would
> bet on Microsoft to produce a superior product to Symantec/Norton in a
> number of ways, including the ridiculous necessity to read 10 Norton KBs
to
> do a cascade of work arounds to make a product work. Live Update is a
great
> example. Scans that fail are another. Clicking a plus to go to a drop
down
> to get a link to get the 5th KB you've used for one Norton problem is like
a
> childeren's game. Those come into play with SP2.
>
> I personally hope Microsoft puts Norton and Symantec out of business and
> gets their AV product up and running rapidly. I guarantee Symantec is
> looking over their big floundering shoulders.
>
> Best,
>
> Chad Harris
> _________________________________
>
>
>
> "Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:%23Ledkh6fEHA.3348@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Between your post last night, Chad, and early morning (PDT), I'm seeing
> reports of Live Update now downloading the proper fix so the Norton
Internet
> Security 2004 is now compatible with SP2, and Norton Antivirus is now
> properly reporting to the XP Security Center its status.
> --
> Chris H.
> Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
> Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
> Associate Expert
> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>
>
> "Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:o mrhpw2fEHA.3048@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > Unfortunately, Chris, Norton didn't come out with anything yet for home
> > and small business users on their site and have thus far refused to
> > specify the degree of backwards compatibility that the promiesed and not
> > yet delivered patches for *Norton* products would entail. Although
there
> > are go arounds to make SP2 work with any version of Norton product, and
> > some a little bit Byzantine--the routine where you read one Norton KB
and
> > click on an icon in Live Update to reveal the next KB to read, followed
by
> > a hyperlink in the error message to read the 3rd KB--they all end with
> > uninstalling Norton appropriately I belive and should add to install a
> > product from another company.
> >
> > The webpage that didn't deliver from Norton that has been up all week is
> > this one:
> >
> >
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...
> >
> > They plan whenever this happens (it didn't happen on August 10 as the
web
> > page has been announcing all week, to deliver a patch in two parts, the
> > second after a reboot.
> >
> > The importance of SP2 working for enterprises and home was in
Microsoft's
> > press release:
> >
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/aug04/08-...
> >
> >
> > "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business
and
> > consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to
ensure
> > the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst
> > for
> > the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
> > business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because
> > it
> > addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone
> > currently
> > using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest
opportunity."
> >
> > The disingenuous comment by Symantec Senior Vice-President Stephen
Cullen
> > is here:
> >
> > "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business
and
> > consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to
ensure
> > the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst
> > for
> > the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
> > business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because
> > it
> > addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone
> > currently
> > using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest
opportunity."
> >
> > Actually in *several papers* available at Technetand MSDN, Microsoft
> > urges people to uninstall the antivirus before installing SP2. There is
a
> > different story though, from Symantec who advises people to wait for
their
> > patches before installing SP2 on the webpage linked above.
> >
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/m...
> >
> >
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...
> >
> > "Symantec will release a product update to provide native support for
the
> > Windows Security Center status utility found in SP2. This update will be
> > available worldwide over the coming weeks and will enable Symantec
> > products to communicate their status to the Windows Security Center
> > utility."
> >
> > Symantec asks you to wait, and in the case of their time table for
> > enterprise editions for a vague range up to 8 weeks:
> >
> > FAQ Running Symantec Client Security
> > http://tinyurl.com/6mfsy
> >
> >
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/0f75ab1a99...
> >
> > http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nav.nsf/docid/1999...
> >
> > "Symantec encourages its customers to install the product update prior
to
> > installing SP2 in order to avoid incorrect reporting from Windows
Security
> > Center."
> >
> > The "security center" for almost everyone who reads and contributes on
> > these two groups is pretty moot, since they don't need that very basic
> > thing to tell them where Technet security links are, or whether their
> > firewall and AV are "on." But many Norton products require work-arounds
> > to make a system scan work (can be obtained as well from any web site
and
> > sometimes will work from the command line with SP2 and for some people
> > will not), to make "Live Update" for what it's actually worth work, and
to
> > boot up with auto protect on.
> >
> > Actually script blocking and email blocking are duplicative ancillary
> > functions and hype in a Norton/Symantec AV product--not because those
> > things aren't important--but because any engineer who works at Symantec
> > will tell you that Auto-Protect does everything the other two do, and
the
> > other two could actually be turned off and you'd still get email
scanning
> > and script blocking.
> >
> > Norton Antivirus 2005 actually has a box telling people *explicitly to
> > turn the Windows Firewall in SP2* off as does their Tech Support
currently
> > (I spoke with several of them yesterday)--the reason being because NAV
> > 2005 has a little code from their "worm protection" or firewall which
> > competes with the Microsoft Windows firewall. How much firewall is
> > available in NAV 2005 is hard to determine (their new "worm blocking
> > feature.") Obviously it isn't the whole NIS 2005.
> >
> > NAV 2005 for many people who have used it works fine with SP2 until the
> > third boot, and then it has the well known freeze in refresh problem
that
> > is addressed sometimes by this Symantec KB which applies to Win XP RTM
> > although it doesn't say so. A lot of Symantec/Norton KBs are labeled
> > forone year's version but the same steps apply to versions of Windows
and
> > Norton after 9X. This is corrected by reregistering "jscript.dll" and
> > downloading and reinstalling Windows Script Host 5.6 and other
components.
> >
> > The more people they tick off by dragging their feet on compatibility to
> > force sales of 2005 boxes, the better it may be for the new company,
"the
> > new security vendor on the block," Microsoft Antivirus.
> >
> >
http://news.com.com/Security+vendors+face+new+kid+on+bl...
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Chad Harris
> > _____________________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > "Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:%2317WUfwfEHA.636@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > The problem in some cases is (1) a previous version of the beta SP2
> > software
> > has been installed, and a program installed during that existence, or
(2)
> > a
> > software company hasn't updated their software to work with SP2 yet
> > (example: Norton/Symantec, which is coming out today with an update to
> > fix
> > issues). Otherwise, it is very rare a program will fail.
> > --
> > Chris H.
> > Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
> > Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
> > Associate Expert
> > Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
> >
> >
> > "KMO" <teardrops@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns95416BD9E3EF4KMO@216.168.3.50...
> >> "Mike Williams [MVP]" <mikew@Nospam]mvps.org> wrote in
> >> news:#5FkhRmfEHA.2764@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl:
> >>
> >>> Some software is known to fail on SP2 due to new security settings.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Well that doesn't sound very inviting!
> >
> >
>
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 11:48:14 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

No David. *By all means install SP2--you are better off undoubtably with it
than SP1*. But although MSFT says in all their articles to uninstall the
AV before you install it, it's been my experience that SP2 will install with
AV in fine but has broken, for example NIS, totally. I think the best
option is to run Live Update to get the new patches available for NAV 2004
and NIS 2004 (the ones Chris has talked about) among other Norton
applications, then install SP2 and you should be fine. In other words try
to get your Norton app patched and then install SP2 with it.

That's what Norton is recommending. Things get a little confusing in that
every one of about 50 write ups MSFT has on their site say to uninstall NAV
first, but I'd go on and patch it for SP2 then install SP2. MSFT also has
one "generic KB" that talks about using AV software before upgrading to
Windows XP.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;317321

NortonLive Update is the means, and this should have happened automatically
already for you that the patches for SP2 are being installed. Then
hopefully, you won't have SP2 problems.

If you have any problems, please post. I have their fixes down and all
their KBs.

Chad Harris


"David Cleland" <davidcleland@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uKq5GP9fEHA.3016@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
Now I am confused,

I use Norton Internet Security 2004 - are you telling me not to install SP2
?

David


"Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:o Z0maM9fEHA.1188@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Chris--
>
> I appreciate the Live Update patch came out with their FAQ. One problem
is
> that *SP2 breaks Live Update* whether you uninstall Norton and install SP2
> (as virtually every Microsoft document on SP2 tells you to do) or leave
> Norton/Symantec in. The bottom Line is after a lot of game playing and
> clicking successive links on Live Update, tripping through multiple Norton
> KBs one leading to the next, you have a *LU 1812 error*, whose final move
> is to uninstall NSW or NAV manually and meticulously, and after you have
> exhuasted it's remedies, it won't fix with SP2 RTM period.
>
> The only way they are delivering the compatibiilty patches for SP2 is
> through Live Update. SP2 whether Norton is installed before or after
breaks
> Live Udpate and you can't get the patch.
>
>
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/sharedtech.nsf/doc...
>
> The part left out on the KB is to install any other antivirus
product--many
> will work with SP2.
>
> They are not making any other means avialable to patch Norton other than
> Live Update. If it's broken, and their KBs to fix it often don't, you're
> stuck with scan not working, booting up and having to turn on Auto Protect
> with a right click (minor) and often uninstall problems with Norton
> products. Microsoft tells you to install SP2 first (uninstall NAV) and
> Norton/Symantec tell you to wait until they are updated (in some cases 8
> weeks from now for Enterprise Products according to their enterprise FAQ I
> linked before) before installing SP2.
>
> Microsoft tells you to turn their Windows Firewall on; Norton 2005
products
> on the last box before you click finish will tell you in a single explicit
> box to turn it off. NAV 2005 has a piece of NPF or NIS billed as "worm
> protection." How much of a piece and what it actually does compared with
> the Windows firewall that has been criticized with respect to outbound
> traffic still after SP2 RTM is hard to define. Many people are finding
> that the Windows firewall leaves much to be desired right now, as you
know,
> but I'm sure it will be a different story come Longhorn in 2007.
>
> http://www.symantec.com/techsupp/sp2/faq.html
>
> The answers from Symantec on this FAQ just issued just aren't true in some
> cases. There is the paradox that for many, Live Update doesn't work with
> SP2 and Norton has elected not to deliver their update patches any other
> way. They aren't making them available on their site now. That was a
goofy
> choice to say the least. The patch to fix what's broken can't be obtained
> because you are required to use what's broken to get it--that's not only
> ironic and paradoxical--you ain't gonna be able to fix what's broken.
>
> Microsoft wants you to put in SP2 before Norton, and if you put in Norton
> first and patch it, SP2 can still break Norton a number of ways. Norton
> 2005 seems to work pretty well with SP2 until you boot 3 times, and then
you
> have refresh freezing on all categories on the Norton Integrator or gui
> interface, i.e. you can't tell what's on. You can see that email
scanning
> is working. The important thing of course, is that Auto Protect is
> enabled, because in fact Auto Protect includes adequate email scan and
> script blocking to the point you could turn the other two off and be just
> fine according to every Symantec engineer I talked to--so you have to be
> able to determine that Auto Protect is up and running.
>
> I reproduced this and so did others about 25 times.
>
> Sometimes but not all that can be fixed by reregistering jscript.dll, and
> downloading and reinstalling Scripten or the Microsoft Windows Script
> package including the Windows Script Host 5.6 since IE has to function
> correctly to read the Norton interface.
>
>
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyI...
>
> This KB applies to any version of NSW or NIS through 2005 with Windows
> versions past 9X. Often Norton doesn't update KBs in version name for
> Windows version, but the Norton/Symantec KB will do the job.
>
>
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/0f75ab1a99...
>
> The FAQ says:
>
> "Installing Service Pack 2 will have no affect on Norton Personal Firewall
> or Norton Internet Security."
>
> Some of the FAQ's are vague to the point of covering anything that will
> happen,--I like this one because it avoids saying SP2 can break things
that
> are Norton/Symantec and it does.
>
> "How will installing Service Pack 2 affect the Symantec Products I have
> already installed?"
> A. "This varies on the Symantec [Norton as well] products you own."
Right.
> Many break.
>
> On many boxes, installing SP2 any build will outright break
> NIS/NPF any version. It will put up a box that says "You're not the
Norton
> supervisor" and when you put up the Norton Integrator (the box that shows
> what it does with NAV added you can see it but you can't do anything with
> it). You'll not be able to uninstall NIS or NPF from Add/Remove, and
you'll
> have to use a Norton KB that involves 30-45minutes of using a Norton
> removal tool, thendeleting several GUID keys and other registry keys,
> multiple folders, every Norton file you can track down in ectopic places.
>
>
> "With Service Pack 2 installed, do I even need my Symantec antivirus and
> firewall products? Absolutely."
>
> Norton explicitly tells you to turn the Windows Firewall "*off*" in their
> 2005 products about to release. I wouldn't run two software firewalls or
> more at once, and I don't have data comparing their abilities like
stateful
> inspection head on with say, ZA, and that info isn't easy to come by now.
> What they didn't say in the FAQ is that when you load Norton or Symantec
> anything, it's going to tell you to turn your Windows Firewall in SP2
> off--last box before "Finished Install."
>
> "Installing Service Pack 2 will have no affect on Norton Personal Firewall
> or Norton Internet Security" Just not the case. SP2 can make it
difficult
> to install, and particularly to uninstall Norton products. I don't know
> the numbers in 10,000 boxes for this.
>
>
> I've found this to be totally *untrue* and reproducable that the firewall
> can and will break. Norton also tells you on installation of any 2005
> product to *turn off the Windows firewall*. It's the last box before you
> click "Finish" on the install of the Norton/Symantec 2005 AV, PF, or NIS.
>
> Norton anti-spam is hype and whatever it does can be spelled a dozen ways
> without it.
>
> Norton Go Back reconfigures the Windows Master Boot Record, and I'd just
as
> soon have someone playing with my elevator lift on the way up the Empire
> State Building--it often has the same effect and unhooking Go Back from a
> botched Windows boot strap mechanism is simply impossible--their tech
> support will tell you they have no clue how and so will MSFT personnel.
In
> a high percentage of cases, Go Back will destroy partitions in the Windows
> Operating System and you won't be seeing that particular OS again ever.
> It's refractory to Recovery Console moves or commands and a repair/upgrade
> or parallel install will get nowhere.
>
> SP2 can destroy scans in Norton System works, the ability to make it run
> after boot, and Live Update the same as in Norton Antivirus.
>
> On some people's boxes the security center will monitor it, but how many
> people need the Security Center (none here) need the Security Center to
tell
> them where Technet is, how to get to Help and Support, or whether their AV
> or Firewall are all. Very few individuals who install a Norton product
> don't adjust it at the Norton product or who are going to be working with
> the Windows Firewall as it evolves and gets better toward Longhorn are
going
> to be relying on the security center to check on the firewall. My point
is
> that there are 3 things that happen with multiple versions of NAV that
don't
> work with SP2--sometimes with the patch update. There are fixes for them,
> and sometimes they don't work. System scans, booting up with Auto Protect
> Off (it usually can be turned on but sometimes can't--and Auto Protect is
> key because it does script blocking/scanning and email scanning--even if
you
> had them both turned off (they are duplication in Norton/Symantec) auto
> protect will cover that functionality. Live Update will often not work
with
> SP2 and for those people, they can't update to the patches anyway, because
> Norton has chosen not to make the patches available any alternative way
> which is goofy to say the least.
>
> *Contradiction of Instructions by Microsoft and Symantec/Norton on SP2*
>
> There is also the direct contradiction between Microsoft's instructions
and
> Norton's. Every place MSFT has an SP2 article at Technet, MSDN, the XP
> Expert Zone or any place on MSFT's site, you are told you should uninstall
> AV to install SP2.
>
> Symantec and Norton explicitly tell you to wait to install SP2 until you
> have updated NAV--and in the case of Symantec patches for enterprise
> security, AV, and firewall products there is a vague timetable projecting
8
> weeks out from now for release toward the end of September.
>
> When you install a Symantec or Norton 2005 product, it tells you
explicitly
> to *turn off the Windows firewall--something I know the Networking team
and
> SP2 team did not strive to have done. NAV 2005 has a piece of their NIS
> 2005 firewall, so-called "Worm Protection" although how much a piece is
> impossible to quantify unless you are a Symantec engineer who has the
code.
>
> I do know that Microsoft is definitely developing Microsoft Antivirus
> products, but that the publicity campaign for them is non-existent. I
would
> bet on Microsoft to produce a superior product to Symantec/Norton in a
> number of ways, including the ridiculous necessity to read 10 Norton KBs
to
> do a cascade of work arounds to make a product work. Live Update is a
great
> example. Scans that fail are another. Clicking a plus to go to a drop
down
> to get a link to get the 5th KB you've used for one Norton problem is like
a
> childeren's game. Those come into play with SP2.
>
> I personally hope Microsoft puts Norton and Symantec out of business and
> gets their AV product up and running rapidly. I guarantee Symantec is
> looking over their big floundering shoulders.
>
> Best,
>
> Chad Harris
> _________________________________
>
>
>
> "Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:%23Ledkh6fEHA.3348@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Between your post last night, Chad, and early morning (PDT), I'm seeing
> reports of Live Update now downloading the proper fix so the Norton
Internet
> Security 2004 is now compatible with SP2, and Norton Antivirus is now
> properly reporting to the XP Security Center its status.
> --
> Chris H.
> Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
> Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
> Associate Expert
> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>
>
> "Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:o mrhpw2fEHA.3048@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > Unfortunately, Chris, Norton didn't come out with anything yet for home
> > and small business users on their site and have thus far refused to
> > specify the degree of backwards compatibility that the promiesed and not
> > yet delivered patches for *Norton* products would entail. Although
there
> > are go arounds to make SP2 work with any version of Norton product, and
> > some a little bit Byzantine--the routine where you read one Norton KB
and
> > click on an icon in Live Update to reveal the next KB to read, followed
by
> > a hyperlink in the error message to read the 3rd KB--they all end with
> > uninstalling Norton appropriately I belive and should add to install a
> > product from another company.
> >
> > The webpage that didn't deliver from Norton that has been up all week is
> > this one:
> >
> >
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...
> >
> > They plan whenever this happens (it didn't happen on August 10 as the
web
> > page has been announcing all week, to deliver a patch in two parts, the
> > second after a reboot.
> >
> > The importance of SP2 working for enterprises and home was in
Microsoft's
> > press release:
> >
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/aug04/08-...
> >
> >
> > "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business
and
> > consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to
ensure
> > the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst
> > for
> > the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
> > business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because
> > it
> > addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone
> > currently
> > using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest
opportunity."
> >
> > The disingenuous comment by Symantec Senior Vice-President Stephen
Cullen
> > is here:
> >
> > "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business
and
> > consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to
ensure
> > the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst
> > for
> > the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
> > business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because
> > it
> > addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone
> > currently
> > using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest
opportunity."
> >
> > Actually in *several papers* available at Technetand MSDN, Microsoft
> > urges people to uninstall the antivirus before installing SP2. There is
a
> > different story though, from Symantec who advises people to wait for
their
> > patches before installing SP2 on the webpage linked above.
> >
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/m...
> >
> >
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...
> >
> > "Symantec will release a product update to provide native support for
the
> > Windows Security Center status utility found in SP2. This update will be
> > available worldwide over the coming weeks and will enable Symantec
> > products to communicate their status to the Windows Security Center
> > utility."
> >
> > Symantec asks you to wait, and in the case of their time table for
> > enterprise editions for a vague range up to 8 weeks:
> >
> > FAQ Running Symantec Client Security
> > http://tinyurl.com/6mfsy
> >
> >
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/0f75ab1a99...
> >
> > http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nav.nsf/docid/1999...
> >
> > "Symantec encourages its customers to install the product update prior
to
> > installing SP2 in order to avoid incorrect reporting from Windows
Security
> > Center."
> >
> > The "security center" for almost everyone who reads and contributes on
> > these two groups is pretty moot, since they don't need that very basic
> > thing to tell them where Technet security links are, or whether their
> > firewall and AV are "on." But many Norton products require work-arounds
> > to make a system scan work (can be obtained as well from any web site
and
> > sometimes will work from the command line with SP2 and for some people
> > will not), to make "Live Update" for what it's actually worth work, and
to
> > boot up with auto protect on.
> >
> > Actually script blocking and email blocking are duplicative ancillary
> > functions and hype in a Norton/Symantec AV product--not because those
> > things aren't important--but because any engineer who works at Symantec
> > will tell you that Auto-Protect does everything the other two do, and
the
> > other two could actually be turned off and you'd still get email
scanning
> > and script blocking.
> >
> > Norton Antivirus 2005 actually has a box telling people *explicitly to
> > turn the Windows Firewall in SP2* off as does their Tech Support
currently
> > (I spoke with several of them yesterday)--the reason being because NAV
> > 2005 has a little code from their "worm protection" or firewall which
> > competes with the Microsoft Windows firewall. How much firewall is
> > available in NAV 2005 is hard to determine (their new "worm blocking
> > feature.") Obviously it isn't the whole NIS 2005.
> >
> > NAV 2005 for many people who have used it works fine with SP2 until the
> > third boot, and then it has the well known freeze in refresh problem
that
> > is addressed sometimes by this Symantec KB which applies to Win XP RTM
> > although it doesn't say so. A lot of Symantec/Norton KBs are labeled
> > forone year's version but the same steps apply to versions of Windows
and
> > Norton after 9X. This is corrected by reregistering "jscript.dll" and
> > downloading and reinstalling Windows Script Host 5.6 and other
components.
> >
> > The more people they tick off by dragging their feet on compatibility to
> > force sales of 2005 boxes, the better it may be for the new company,
"the
> > new security vendor on the block," Microsoft Antivirus.
> >
> >
http://news.com.com/Security+vendors+face+new+kid+on+bl...
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Chad Harris
> > _____________________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > "Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:%2317WUfwfEHA.636@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > The problem in some cases is (1) a previous version of the beta SP2
> > software
> > has been installed, and a program installed during that existence, or
(2)
> > a
> > software company hasn't updated their software to work with SP2 yet
> > (example: Norton/Symantec, which is coming out today with an update to
> > fix
> > issues). Otherwise, it is very rare a program will fail.
> > --
> > Chris H.
> > Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
> > Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
> > Associate Expert
> > Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
> >
> >
> > "KMO" <teardrops@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns95416BD9E3EF4KMO@216.168.3.50...
> >> "Mike Williams [MVP]" <mikew@Nospam]mvps.org> wrote in
> >> news:#5FkhRmfEHA.2764@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl:
> >>
> >>> Some software is known to fail on SP2 due to new security settings.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Well that doesn't sound very inviting!
> >
> >
>
Anonymous
August 12, 2004 12:11:11 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize,microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers (More info?)

Chad:

I share your frustration. My first question has been why Symantec
didn't distribute this WMI-exposing update several weeks or months
ago, in preparation for Windows XP SP2's eventual rollout. While
sophisticated users don't need to see green lights to make sure their
systems are running fine, I am sure there are millions of NAV users
out there that once have SP2 installed, will be disconcerted if they
see that their Security Center has a red by the Antivirus section.

As previously mentioned in this thread, others are getting the
necessary updates via LiveUpdate, but I'm suspecting that only applies
to NAV 2004 users, not NAV 2003. My machine is using NAV 2003, and I
haven't been able to obtain any of the updates as posted here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe...

Just like Microsoft is now distributing a tool to prevent SP2 rollouts
via Windows Update, which seems somewhat of an afterthought on their
part but very appropriate for enterprises, Symantec should post
software to let end-users manually install the necessary pieces for
WinXP SP2 'compatibility'.

Regards,

Frank

"Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<uDj5$r#fEHA.3024@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl>...
> I''m glad it works for you Sky. But that update relies on Live Update
> working. They are refusing to deliver it any other way. And there have
> been a lot of Norton KB 1806 errors with a broken LU and SP2.
>
> Chad Harris
>
>
> "Sky KIng" <laughing@home.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1b85a04e7c9fba22989a42@news.snet.sbcglobal.net...
> In article <MPG.1b854537176849f5989a3c@news.snet.sbcglobal.net>,
> laughing@home.net says...
> > In article <Omrhpw2fEHA.3048@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, ddram32
> > _nospam@yahoo.com says...
> > > Unfortunately, Chris, Norton didn't come out with anything yet for home
> > > and
> > > small business users on their site and have thus far refused to specify
> > > the
> > > degree of backwards compatibility that the promiesed and not yet
> > > delivered
> > > patches for *Norton* products would entail. Although there are go
> > > arounds
> > > to make SP2 work with any version of Norton product, and some a little
> > > bit
> > > Byzantine--the routine where you read one Norton KB and click on an icon
> > > in
> > > Live Update to reveal the next KB to read, followed by a hyperlink in
> > > the
> > > error message to read the 3rd KB--they all end with uninstalling Norton
> > > appropriately I belive and should add to install a product from another
> > > company.
> > >
> > > The webpage that didn't deliver from Norton that has been up all week is
> > > this one:
> > >
> > > http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...
> > >
> > > They plan whenever this happens (it didn't happen on August 10 as the
> > > web
> > > page has been announcing all week, to deliver a patch in two parts, the
> > > second after a reboot.
> > >
> > > The importance of SP2 working for enterprises and home was in
> > > Microsoft's
> > > press release:
> > > http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/aug04/08-...
> > >
> > >
> > > "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business
> > > and
> > > consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to
> > > ensure
> > > the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst
> > > for
> > > the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
> > > business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because
> > > it
> > > addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone
> > > currently
> > > using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest
> > > opportunity."
> > >
> > > The disingenuous comment by Symantec Senior Vice-President Stephen
> > > Cullen is
> > > here:
> > >
> > > "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business
> > > and
> > > consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to
> > > ensure
> > > the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst
> > > for
> > > the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small
> > > business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because
> > > it
> > > addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone
> > > currently
> > > using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest
> > > opportunity."
> > >
> > > Actually in *several papers* available at Technetand MSDN, Microsoft
> > > urges
> > > people to uninstall the antivirus before installing SP2. There is a
> > > different story though, from Symantec who advises people to wait for
> > > their
> > > patches before installing SP2 on the webpage linked above.
> > > http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/m...
> > >
> > > http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/doci...
> > >
> > > "Symantec will release a product update to provide native support for
> > > the
> > > Windows Security Center status utility found in SP2. This update will be
> > > available worldwide over the coming weeks and will enable Symantec
> > > products
> > > to communicate their status to the Windows Security Center utility."
> > >
> > > Symantec asks you to wait, and in the case of their time table for
> > > enterprise editions for a vague range up to 8 weeks:
> > >
> > > FAQ Running Symantec Client Security
> > > http://tinyurl.com/6mfsy
> > >
> > > http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/0f75ab1a99...
> > >
> > > http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nav.nsf/docid/1999...
> > >
> > > "Symantec encourages its customers to install the product update prior
> > > to
> > > installing SP2 in order to avoid incorrect reporting from Windows
> > > Security
> > > Center."
> > >
> > > The "security center" for almost everyone who reads and contributes on
> > > these
> > > two groups is pretty moot, since they don't need that very basic thing
> > > to
> > > tell them where Technet security links are, or whether their firewall
> > > and AV
> > > are "on." But many Norton products require work-arounds to make a
> > > system
> > > scan work (can be obtained as well from any web site and sometimes will
> > > work
> > > from the command line with SP2 and for some people will not), to make
> > > "Live
> > > Update" for what it's actually worth work, and to boot up with auto
> > > protect
> > > on.
> > >
> > > Actually script blocking and email blocking are duplicative ancillary
> > > functions and hype in a Norton/Symantec AV product--not because those
> > > things
> > > aren't important--but because any engineer who works at Symantec will
> > > tell
> > > you that Auto-Protect does everything the other two do, and the other
> > > two
> > > could actually be turned off and you'd still get email scanning and
> > > script
> > > blocking.
> > >
> > > Norton Antivirus 2005 actually has a box telling people *explicitly to
> > > turn
> > > the Windows Firewall in SP2* off as does their Tech Support currently (I
> > > spoke with several of them yesterday)--the reason being because NAV 2005
> > > has
> > > a little code from their "worm protection" or firewall which competes
> > > with
> > > the Microsoft Windows firewall. How much firewall is available in NAV
> > > 2005
> > > is hard to determine (their new "worm blocking feature.") Obviously it
> > > isn't the whole NIS 2005.
> > >
> > > NAV 2005 for many people who have used it works fine with SP2 until the
> > > third boot, and then it has the well known freeze in refresh problem
> > > that is
> > > addressed sometimes by this Symantec KB which applies to Win XP RTM
> > > although
> > > it doesn't say so. A lot of Symantec/Norton KBs are labeled forone
> > > year's
> > > version but the same steps apply to versions of Windows and Norton after
> > > 9X.
> > > This is corrected by reregistering "jscript.dll" and downloading and
> > > reinstalling Windows Script Host 5.6 and other components.
> > >
> > > The more people they tick off by dragging their feet on compatibility to
> > > force sales of 2005 boxes, the better it may be for the new company,
> > > "the
> > > new security vendor on the block," Microsoft Antivirus.
> > >
> > > http://news.com.com/Security+vendors+face+new+kid+on+bl...
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Chad Harris
> > > _____________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > Something new here may help.
> > http://winbeta.org/
> > Symantec today released an update for Norton Internet Security which
> > allows it to integrate properly into the new WindowsXP SP2 Security
> > Center. The update allows Windows to alert you if your anti-virus
> > definitions are out of date, or if there is a security risk which you
> > ordinarily wouldn't know about.
> >
> >
> I ran their update and I am good to go.
August 16, 2004 7:20:40 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

"Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:o 8GfyJ$fEHA.632@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl:

> As an addendum, I might add that it seems to be people running the
> 2003 version. Of course, Symantec would like you to pay to upgrade to
> their 2004 version which doesn't seem to have issues. 8-)

I got lost in the conversation. I have NAV 2003 professional and so far I
have not gotten the update to go along with sp2..... for that matter I am
holding off on sp2........ are you saying that Nav2003 is one that is not
getting this update or it is getting this update without problems?

Thanks.
Anonymous
August 16, 2004 7:20:41 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

You need to check with Symantec on that. I do know the 2004 version will
get an automatic live update feed. Check out their web site for the
specific answer for your version.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone


"KMO" <kmo53153@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns954754E17F0AAKMO@216.168.3.50...
> "Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:o 8GfyJ$fEHA.632@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl:
>
>> As an addendum, I might add that it seems to be people running the
>> 2003 version. Of course, Symantec would like you to pay to upgrade to
>> their 2004 version which doesn't seem to have issues. 8-)
>
> I got lost in the conversation. I have NAV 2003 professional and so far I
> have not gotten the update to go along with sp2..... for that matter I am
> holding off on sp2........ are you saying that Nav2003 is one that is not
> getting this update or it is getting this update without problems?
>
> Thanks.
August 17, 2004 9:43:04 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

"Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:ekDdob6gEHA.2812@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:

> You need to check with Symantec on that. I do know the 2004 version
> will get an automatic live update feed. Check out their web site for
> the specific answer for your version.

I have not found any specific answers at all other than what is on this
page. http://www.symantec.com/techsupp/sp2/faq.html?src=ivr_n...

Of the updates are being updated, I am just getting the plain old dat
update files. I am not seeing anything specific about this update for
windows sp2. And for that matter, it is sad that you cannot look anywhere
in Norton to see exactly what it is that they are updating you with anymore
either.
Anonymous
August 17, 2004 9:43:05 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

A bit disappointing for Symantec users, huh? If they're not going to update
the previous version, guess what they want you to do?
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone


"KMO" <Kmo53153@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95486D06123F4KMO@216.168.3.50...
> "Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:ekDdob6gEHA.2812@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:
>
>> You need to check with Symantec on that. I do know the 2004 version
>> will get an automatic live update feed. Check out their web site for
>> the specific answer for your version.
>
> I have not found any specific answers at all other than what is on this
> page. http://www.symantec.com/techsupp/sp2/faq.html?src=ivr_n...
>
> Of the updates are being updated, I am just getting the plain old dat
> update files. I am not seeing anything specific about this update for
> windows sp2. And for that matter, it is sad that you cannot look anywhere
> in Norton to see exactly what it is that they are updating you with
> anymore
> either.
August 18, 2004 4:26:01 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize (More info?)

"Chris H." <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:#LeogLIhEHA.2784@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl:

> A bit disappointing for Symantec users, huh? If they're not going to
> update the previous version, guess what they want you to do?

well if that be the case, I may just find something else to use. I just
bought this from ebay at a good price because it was their last program
that came with a year of free updates.. Plus reading computer magazines,
all the new versions it was said there really wasn't anything they found in
the new improved versions to upgrade for......

Actually that is a load of horseshit! Make people upgrade! <rolling eyes>
!