Need a Soundcard with 5.1 Through Optical

[tk423]

Hey everyone. I have a question about soundcards.

As of right now I have a 5.1 surround sound system and the only way to connect my computer to the surround sound receiver is through a digital optical audio cable. A S/PDIF, I believe?

My current soundcard is an onboard Realtek alc892.

I read that I will only be able to get true 5.1 surround sound through an optical cable (for games or other audio sources that are not already in Dobly or DTS) if I have a soundcard that has Dolby Digital Live and/or DTS Connect. My current soundcard does not have these features, correct?

Is it true I won't be able to get 5.1 with my current card?

Is it necessary to get a soundcard that has both Dolby Digital Live and DTS Connect or is only one necessary?

I don't really know how to find soundcards based on features and you can't really select Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect on the search at Newegg.

What do you believe is the cheapest card I can get that has one or both (whatever is necessary) of these features and will allow me to get true 5.1 sound in my pc gaming?

 

[MagicPants]

I've done this.

DTS-connect is better than DDL.

For spdif, I'd go with a Creative Labs titanium (around $85). Don't buy a fancy version. You might need to download a driver from their website, it's free for the titanium, so don't accidentally pay extra for it (DTS and Dolby charge for the license)

Then you'll go into the sound card properties, select encoding, and use DTS Connect (or DDL as a last resort)

You can also use an Asus Xonar DX, but I don't think it's as good an option for spdif, as the optical out shares the same port as the mic.

There is also a free DTS-connect driver floating around (goggle for it, it's unlicensed) that will enable it for your onboard sound. I'd give that a shot first, though I think it depends on your motherboard.

 

[tk423]

Poked around a bit and couldn't find that driver.

Here is another question I have though.

Can HDMI carry unencoded 5.1?

If I were to get a new receiver that has an HDMI port, could the HDMI cable from my graphics card/computer to the receiver to the TV carry sound from gaming and have it be in 5.1?

 

[MagicPants]

Yes the HDMI port on your graphics card can do just that, but there's a catch.

HDMI needs to carry video and sound at the same time, because Hollywood designed it to keep you from stealing your movies. I think this means that card needs to do some (not a lot) extra video work to send audio via HDMI to your receiver.

If you have your monitor hooked up with DVI, it's like running a cloned screen. If you pass the HDMI video signal through your receiver and then to your monitor, you might get extra latency (depending on the receiver).

Anyway when I tried it, it worked great until I tried to use anti-aliasing in skyrim, then it crashed my video cards (2x nVidia GTX 580 in sli). It was very consistent, and as soon as I went back to the sound card everything was fine.

AMD cards may fair better. But just a warning that it may cause a small amount of random crashing.

My advice is try the hdmi port for sound, but also use it for video. If messes with the video in any way, go with the s/pdif. If you can't use the HDMI port for video, go with s/pdif.

 

[tk423]

Ok, I'll give it a try once I get the receiver.

Thank you.

That being said, if I do run the sound through s/pdif it will continue to not give me the true 5.1 surround that the HDMI would, correct?

Or is it possible for the receiver to translate the sound to 5.1 or is s/pdif not capable of handling unencoded 5.1 no matter what, even if the receiver it is carrying it to can?

 

[Idonno]

To my knowledge both Dolby Digital Live and DTS Connect basically convert a stereo signal into 5.1 so as long as your receiver has that capability s/pdif from your sound card should be fine. For true 5.1 your video cards HDMI output would be the best choice.

If you buy a receiver with both HDMI and s/pdif inputs you can have the best of both worlds.

Here's a link to an article on the different types of Dolby. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Digital It talks about DTS Connect in the Dolby Digital Live section as well.

 

[gamerk316]

The ONLY way to get 5.1 out of SPDIF is to send either a Dolby or DTS stream out. SPDIF is INCAPBLE of sending uncompressed 5.1 audio. The reason you get 5.1 when using the speaker test is because it tests each speaker individually [IE: One audio stream at a time, instead of a 5.1 sample].

You have to use either Dolby Digital Live or DTS-Connect to convert a 5.1 PCM stream to a lower quality Dolby/DTS stream to get 5.1 over SPDIF. Thats why I avoid using SPDIF at all costs.

 

[Idonno]

The ONLY way to get 5.1 out of SPDIF is to send either a Dolby or DTS stream out. SPDIF is INCAPBLE of sending uncompressed 5.1 audio. The reason you get 5.1 when using the speaker test is because it tests each speaker individually [IE: One audio stream at a time, instead of a 5.1 sample].

You have to use either Dolby Digital Live or DTS-Connect to convert a 5.1 PCM stream to a lower quality Dolby/DTS stream to get 5.1 over SPDIF. Thats why I avoid using SPDIF at all costs.

Agreed. I also only use my sound cards analog outputs and that's also why I recommended the video cards HDMI output for the OP's surround sound receiver.

 

[gamerk316]

^^ True, HDMI gets around the downsampling issue, but you don't get the extra benefits a soundcard gives [IE: Better quality].

 

[Idonno]

I don't see the benefits. Using the sound cards analog everything is digital until the card converts it to analog and there is that multichannel (more than 2) downsampling issue. Using the s/pdif for stereo audio and the HDMI for all video (and it's accompanying audio) everything is digital until the surround sound receiver converts it to analog. Besides the downsampling issue any benefits would be in direct correlation to the quality of the surround sound receiver/sound card depending on which is used.

 

[gamerk316]

^^ But again, if the soundcard has a higher end DAC then the receiver [which is often the case], then you want to use the soundcard to handle the conversion. If you have a soundcard, its kinda pointless to NOT use the DAC's on it...

 

[MagicPants]

S/pdif can do true 5.1 surround as long as it's encoded with DTS-Connect or DDL.

When I say true surround I mean sounds can be placed in any of the 5 speakers. Realtime encoded DTS isn't the best quality in the world, but give it a try. You should also try HDMI as it will sound far better (up until it corrupts your video driver and your computer crashes.)

That being said, if I do run the sound through s/pdif it will continue to not give me the true 5.1 surround that the HDMI would, correct?

 

[Idonno]

S/pdif can do true 5.1 surround as long as it's encoded with DTS-Connect or DDL.

When I say true surround I mean sounds can be placed in any of the 5 speakers. Realtime encoded DTS isn't the best quality in the world, but give it a try. You should also try HDMI as it will sound far better (up until it corrupts your video driver and your computer crashes.)

No, you were right in saying "true 5.1". On the other hand I used the phrase "true 5.1" and what I meant and should have said is better 5.1

I guess to be as accurate as possible you could call DTS-Connect or DDL "emulated 5.1" either way it's still true 5.1 just not as good. One reason being it wasn't made that way in production. Hopefully everyone knows what we mean/meant.

 

[gamerk316]

^^ Wrong. Both DTS-C and DDL take a 5.1 PCM stream and convert to 5.1 DD/DTS signals. Dolby Virtual Speaker/Headphone (and whatever the DTS equivalent is) is used for virtualized 5.1.

...of course, for that to work, you have to be using very low quality audio to fit into DD/DTS spec (44.1/48KHz 16-bit audio samples). Depending on the soundcard drivers, the audio might not be automatically downsampled prior to going through the Dolby/DTS encoders...

 

[Idonno]

Sounds to me your like just arguing semantics here. Personally I don't see the big difference between your use of "virtualized 5.1" and my use of "emulated 5.1".

As far as it being "real 5.1" or not if it's there and it's 5.1 it's real. It may not be as good as or original but it's still there, Really.

 

[douglasw]

Have you bought a soundcard yeat...Myself when i buy a sound card it has to have DDLive & DTS to get a true surround sound effect so that leaves out Asus...Not one of there cards support DTS so a real good choice i picked was the HT Omega Claro Plus+..This card has a sweet feature no other soundcard has it can take any 2 channel signal & put it 5.1 surround..When i listen to music sometime i'll listen to guitar solo and the sound will go completely in a circle http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=25316&vpn=CLARO%20plus%20+&manufacture=HT%20Omega#Specifications Check out this kick ass sound card and its classified as a audiophile sound card..

 

[Idonno]

HT Omega eClaro can do the same. It has Dolby Digital Live, Dolby Virtual Speaker, Dolby Headphone, Dolby Pro Logic IIx, DTS Connect, DTS Interactive & DTS Neo PC same as the HT Omega Claro Plus+.

 

[gamerk316]

Have you bought a soundcard yeat...Myself when i buy a sound card it has to have DDLive & DTS to get a true surround sound effect so that leaves out Asus...Not one of there cards support DTS

Uhh, wut? The ASUS Xonar DS, D2, D2X, HDAV 1.3, ST, and STX all support DTS encoding. [The DS is DTS only, the rest support both Dolby and DTS].

And again, whenever possible, avoid optical.

 

[douglasw]

Uhh, wut? The ASUS Xonar DS, D2, D2X, HDAV 1.3, ST, and STX all support DTS encoding. [The DS is DTS only, the rest support both Dolby and DTS].

And again, whenever possible, avoid optical.

Your full of beans buddy Xonar Essence stx does NOT support DTS....Here Read this http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/multimedia/display/asus-xonar-essence-stx_4.html read the paragraph just under HP Advance settings and youll see that card dont support DTS....if it did id own that card

 

[douglasw]

Uhh, wut? The ASUS Xonar DS, D2, D2X, HDAV 1.3, ST, and STX all support DTS encoding. [The DS is DTS only, the rest support both Dolby and DTS].

And again, whenever possible, avoid optical.

http://www.asus.com/Multimedia/Audio_Cards/Xonar_Essence_STX/#specifications Heres more proof if this card supported DTS least they would say so in the specs...Like i said this card dont support DTS

 

[Idonno]

http://www.asus.com/Multimedia/Audio_Cards/Xonar_Essence_STX/#specifications Heres more proof if this card supported DTS least they would say so in the specs...Like i said this card dont support DTS

Yea, I don't see it in the specs either. It might be one of those things where you have to pay extra for the separate license. I've seen Creative do that before with other things.

 

[sk1939]

Uhh, wut? The ASUS Xonar DS, D2, D2X, HDAV 1.3, ST, and STX all support DTS encoding. [The DS is DTS only, the rest support both Dolby and DTS].

And again, whenever possible, avoid optical.

Why? Optical is no different than coax or HDMI outputs.

S/PDIF in coax and optical are both strictly two channels of uncompressed PCM audio, but can pass the compressed 5.1/7.1 formats as well. S/PDIF is used to transmit digital signals of a number of formats, including 48 kHz (used to be used in DAT, replaced by AES) and 44.1 kHz (used in Redbook CD's). The format has no strictly defined data rate, and instead uses a biphase code that has either one or two transitions for every bit, allowing the word clock (used for signal pulse timing) to be extracted from the signal itself. Some audiophile and professional equipment allows for an external word clock to be used to synchronize timing and eliminate jitter. Additionally, S/PDIF generally transmits a 20-bit audio data stream plus other related information, however with less than 20 bits, as in the case with Redbook CD's, the extra bits are set to 0. If the source is an SACD player, then S/PDIF can also transport 24-bit samples by way of four extra bits, but the extra may be ignored depending on the DAC used. Additionally, while S/PDIF supports 96/24 output, it makes no difference in practice as most source material is 44.1/16 in the case of MP3's or CD Audio, which makes up the bulk of source material.

As for HDMI, it is required to support S/PDIF, but unlike S/PDIF, HDMI allows 8 channels of uncompressed audio at 16, 20, and 24 bits with a sample range between 44.1 kHz and 192 kHz (used in Blue-Ray, SACD, and DVD-A), as well as the various compressed audio standards. However, due to the limitations of the human ear, it is debatable whether nor not humans can differentiate between 16 and 24 bit audio streams, as well as 48kHz vs 96kHz samples. The latest double blind study I read about found that out of 554 trials, there were 276 correct answers, which meant that there a 49.8% success rate. Given that it was a 50/50 chance to begin with, it shows that the difference, if any, is negligible, however audiophiles and audio equipment manufacturers (of course) contest this, saying there is a difference.

 

[douglasw]

Yea, I don't see it in the specs either. It might be one of those things where you have to pay extra for the separate license. I've seen Creative do that before with other things.

I know what you mean about buying a license for a features Creative is good for that like the Dolby Digital DTS Pack for old X-Fi sound card but i dont think this applies in this case if Asus would have put in DTS in this card they would have built it into the card as hardware...makes no sence to add DTS as a add on software not to a 200 dollar soundcard anyways....Like i said if this card had DTS also i would have this card..

 

[Idonno]

Why? Optical is no different than coax or HDMI outputs.

First off, as evident in your own post, HDMI is quite a bit different. Secondly I've never heard any one who disapproved of optical argue for coax instead.

I use the analog outputs on my soundcard (only) for the quality limitations inherent in optical and coax as well as the reasons "gamerk316" posted earlier:

^^ But again, if the soundcard has a higher end DAC then the receiver [which is often the case], then you want to use the soundcard to handle the conversion. If you have a soundcard, its kinda pointless to NOT use the DAC's on it...

I don't need to read the "The latest double blind study" to tell me what my ears hear. Results can be easily skewed to represent a negligible difference or a much greater difference depending on the desired outcome, double blind or not. The importance of that difference can only be judged by the owners of those ears.

For me PC sound quality is of equal importance to CPU quality (maybe more). Even my old dell Dimension 4700 P4 has $600 worth of audio equipment dedicated to it and unlike the 3.8GHz CPU, the audio portion has retained much of it's value.

Sure people like me are in the minority but, no where near the minority that your "latest double blind study" seems to suggest.

 

[gamerk316]

Why? Optical is no different than coax or HDMI outputs.

Yes it is, due to bandwidth limitations. Dolby/DTS are horrid audio formats because of how compressed they are, hence why I always recommend direct analog out whenever possible.