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NiMH 15 Minute Charger Question

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April 29, 2005 2:34:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,sci.electronics.misc (More info?)

considering buying this one by energizer:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000DIIA...
to recharge my 2500 Mah rechargeable batteries.

One question that i cant find the answer to is: will this charger be able to
charge these batteries to their full
capacity just in a shorter period of time, or if it will charge them but
only partially in the first 15 minutes.
Is this charger just as good as the others but just have some advanced
technology to charge faster or is there
a tradeoff to its ability to charge quickly?

So would you recommend i get one of the 8-11 hour chargers or is this one
will be able to charge my batteries
to their full capacity.

Thank You
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 3:30:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 22:34:31 -0400, asdf wrote:

> So would you recommend i get one of the 8-11 hour chargers or is
> this one will be able to charge my batteries to their full capacity.

There's no need to jump all the way from 15 minutes to nearly that
many hours. There are many smart chargers around that will
recharge batteries in anywhere from 1 to 3 hours. You might want to
consider the Energizer 30 minute charger (part no. CH30MN). It
doesn't have nor need the fan used in the 15 minute charger. Few
people really need such fast chargers though, as one extra set of
batteries would make even an 8 hour charger practical. That said,
you probably shouldn't consider anything but chargers that do the
job in 3 hours or less, have "smart" circuits allowing them to work
with any capacity batteries (and avoid overcharging due accidental
temporary loss of AC power). Even better are the ones such as the
Energizers (and Rayovac, and Maha and Sony and . . . ) that have
individual charging circuits that don't limit you to charging only
pairs of cells, but will also charge 1 or 3 as well.
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 3:30:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

ASAAR <caught@22.com> writes:
> You might want to
> consider the Energizer 30 minute charger (part no. CH30MN). It
> doesn't have nor need the fan used in the 15 minute charger.

Even 1 amp charging (2-3 hours) gets the cells pretty warm. In a 30
minute charger I'd consider the lack of a fan to be a disadvantage.

> Few people really need such fast chargers though, as one extra set
> of batteries would make even an 8 hour charger practical.

One doesn't always remember to keep the spare cells charged; sometimes
you shoot more than you thought you would and need more than one set
of spares, etc. Sure, with perfect discipline you could avoid ever
needing a 15 minute charger. In real life, sometimes you're in a
hurry.
Related resources
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 5:24:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,sci.electronics.misc (More info?)

asdf wrote:
> considering buying this one by energizer:
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000DIIA...
> to recharge my 2500 Mah rechargeable batteries.
>
> One question that i cant find the answer to is: will this charger be able to
> charge these batteries to their full
> capacity just in a shorter period of time, or if it will charge them but
> only partially in the first 15 minutes.
> Is this charger just as good as the others but just have some advanced
> technology to charge faster or is there
> a tradeoff to its ability to charge quickly?
>
> So would you recommend i get one of the 8-11 hour chargers or is this one
> will be able to charge my batteries
> to their full capacity.
>
> Thank You
>
>
The 15 minute value is for the batteries specified in the device
literature. Batteries with larger capacities will take a bit longer to
charge. Those with less capacity, a bit less time.
As for whether this is good for the batteries, it can't be, but then
they don't cost a lot anyway so if it reduces the use life by 75%, some
people would still consider it a good deal for the time savings.

Best chargers are those that limit the temperature, and monitor charge
rate of each battery, and reduce the charge rate to a trickle when the
battery is about 90% charged. They will take from 1 to 3 hours to
recharge a battery, depending on the charge state when they begin charging.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 5:43:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On 28 Apr 2005 21:58:29 -0700, Paul Rubin
<http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid&gt; wrote:

> Even 1 amp charging (2-3 hours) gets the cells pretty warm. In a 30
> minute charger I'd consider the lack of a fan to be a disadvantage.

I don't, and I doubt that either of us has enough information to
determine how much money would be saved or lost. Do you have a
table showing battery life (in recharge cycles) until, say, 25% of
the cell capacity is lost, for different charging currents? I
assume that the loss would be less than 15% compared to a charger
that takes 3 hours or more. That still represents a very large
number of charge cycles and doesn't bother me in the least. It just
means I'll be forced to get future 3000mah NiMH AAs several months
sooner. Ooh, the pain. <g> And the 15 minute charger is probably
rougher on NiMH batteries even with its fan, another failure point
that adds to the overall cost. If you have information that shows
much greater reduction in total life of the batteries please share.
I'm not saying it couldn't happen, just that I have no evidence of
it.

>> Few people really need such fast chargers though, as one extra set
>> of batteries would make even an 8 hour charger practical.

> One doesn't always remember to keep the spare cells charged; sometimes
> you shoot more than you thought you would and need more than one set
> of spares, etc. Sure, with perfect discipline you could avoid ever
> needing a 15 minute charger. In real life, sometimes you're in a
> hurry.

Speak for yourself, Jack. Uh, I mean Paul. This One always has a
few sets of AA and AAA NiMH batteries on hand and fully charged (at
least within a week since being charged). I have a number of very
nice battery cases (8 AA and 12 AAA) and when fresh batteries are
removed for use, the remaining ones are rotated in the case, in
effect floating the freshest ones to the top. If they stay in the
case too long they'll get recharged whether they need it or not, but
that's rare, since I use so many devices (most aren't cameras) that
operate using AAs. And for those who aren't quite so organized,
having a backup 15 or 30 minute charger would be useful if they're
in a hurry when there are no available charged batteries. When
there's no rush, as would be the typical case, the main, gentler
charger might be the preferred choice.

With my camera, btw, I always carry a spare set of batteries even
if I doubt they'll be needed. Each set can provide from 3 or 4
hundred shots to over 1000, depending on how the camera is used.
Since I don't usually take a large number of pictures, they'll last
me a good number of days. I've only run down a set of batteries
once, and then I was intentionally trying to do so.
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 5:43:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

ASAAR <caught@22.com> writes:
> I don't, and I doubt that either of us has enough information to
> determine how much money would be saved or lost. Do you have a
> table showing battery life (in recharge cycles) until, say, 25% of
> the cell capacity is lost, for different charging currents?

I don't, I wonder if that exists somewhere.

> And for those who aren't quite so organized, having a backup 15 or
> 30 minute charger would be useful if they're in a hurry when there
> are no available charged batteries. When there's no rush, as would
> be the typical case, the main, gentler charger might be the
> preferred choice.

Yes, this is why I like having the Energizer 15 min charger around,
though I mostly use the BC-900 at slower settings if I'm not in a hurry.
April 29, 2005 8:39:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

ASAAR <caught@22.com> wrote in news:3u9371didav803hrnspm63elj3lk2n3j7t@
4ax.com:

> On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 22:34:31 -0400, asdf wrote:
>
>> So would you recommend i get one of the 8-11 hour chargers or is
>> this one will be able to charge my batteries to their full capacity.
>
> There's no need to jump all the way from 15 minutes to nearly that
> many hours. There are many smart chargers around that will
> recharge batteries in anywhere from 1 to 3 hours. You might want to
> consider the Energizer 30 minute charger (part no. CH30MN). It
> doesn't have nor need the fan used in the 15 minute charger. Few
> people really need such fast chargers though, as one extra set of
> batteries would make even an 8 hour charger practical. That said,
> you probably shouldn't consider anything but chargers that do the
> job in 3 hours or less, have "smart" circuits allowing them to work
> with any capacity batteries (and avoid overcharging due accidental
> temporary loss of AC power). Even better are the ones such as the
> Energizers (and Rayovac, and Maha and Sony and . . . ) that have
> individual charging circuits that don't limit you to charging only
> pairs of cells, but will also charge 1 or 3 as well.

I have 4 chargers, one only charges in pairs - but it is such a slow
charger that it doesn't matter.

I would not buy a fast charger that only charges in pairs, if one of the
pair is charged and the other is flat then problems can occur. If you get
a charger that can charge individual cells (one that monitors each cell
separately) then you can be more confident that the charger will be careful
with each cell and make sure it doesn't fry them.

Considering how cheap electronics are these days it is no surprise that a 1
hour charger that monitors each cell individually doesn't cost much. I
don't know why it is then that other chargers are designed to charge pairs
of cells. My advice is to check to see if the charger can only charge 2 or
4 cells and not 1 or 3, then you know that the design is cheap and you
should buy a different charger (that applies to all brands including Maha).


--
Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 16-Apr-05)
"There are 10 types of people, those that
understand binary and those that don't"
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 10:37:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,sci.electronics.misc (More info?)

Apparently asdf <dfsa@sadf.com> wrote:

>So would you recommend i get one of the 8-11 hour chargers or is this one
>will be able to charge my batteries
>to their full capacity.

I agree with the comments on a few hours' charger. One thing to
keep in mind is that if you travel, a charger that takes 120-240V
input is a good idea.

--
Ken Tough
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 6:27:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,sci.electronics.misc (More info?)

"asdf" <dfsa@sadf.com> wrote in message
news:83hce.20927$RP1.12463@fe10.lga...
> considering buying this one by energizer:
>
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000DIIA...
> to recharge my 2500 Mah rechargeable batteries.
>
> One question that i cant find the answer to is: will this charger be able
to
> charge these batteries to their full
> capacity just in a shorter period of time,

One review says...

"I even use them to charge the 2300mAH rechargable AA batteries (Energizers
of course) n it still takes only 30 minutes tops!"

Note that to charge a 2300mAH cell in 30 mins the charger must supply 4.6A
per cell roughly.
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 6:28:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

the Rayovac 15 minute chargers were designed for their AAs, so only
those will fast charge in 15 min to full capacity. Other nimh aas will
charge, but overnight to full capacity.

here, you'd either want to dump the older AAs completely, or buy another
charger that handles all nimh batteries for quick charging.

---

2500mA AAs are out already in Japan and the USA.
http://www.mahaenergy.com/store/Index.asp
http://www.thomas-distributing.com/nimh-aa-aaa-battery-...

---

As for charge speed vs. lifespan, keep in mind that you can still get
500 cycles or so with fast charging w/a typical 80% remaining capacity
at the end of 500 cycles (typical no matter what even with slower charge
cycles due to decaying chemistry). Even if you let them sit for a few
years, the chemistry inside the batteries decay, so you'll wind up with
lower maximum capacity even if you rarely use the cells. That's about 1
1/2 years to 2 years on an almost daily charge routine.

I'd say, don't worry! either way, in 2-3 years, those cells will be
pooped no matter what! Just buy the cheap ones if you don't want to
spend lots of money = (typically <$1 per cell; eg.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0001FZCQQ/ref%3...)
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 6:40:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,sci.electronics.misc (More info?)

As for the Energizer charger, unknown right now if they use the regular
charging method or the Rayovac pressure cell trigger (unique vs. other
regular charge methods - the stop of cycle is triggered by the cell, not
by external monitors on heat, etc). All chargers will partially charge
cells if not kept in there the entire required charge time.

7.5Amp push, so it's pretty powerful:
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/ch15mn.pdf

"The new and improved high capacity, longer lasting AA NiMH battery
is 2500 mAh. What does this mean?

NiMH batteries have varying mAh or milliamps ratings. These ratings
indicate the power capacity of the battery. The higher the capacity, the
longer the battery will last between charges. AA 2500mAh batteries will
be charged in approx. 20 min. in the 15 Minute Charger, 1 hour in the 1
Hour Charger, 5 hours 30 minutes in the Universal Charger, and 12 hours
in the Compact Charger. Lower mAh will be charged in less time."

=--

http://www.crypto.com/chargers/

Here, the older 2300mA Energizer tested to be the best of the range of
cells out there, so the 2500mA should be better (ie. longest lasting):
http://www.imaging-resource.com/ACCS/BATTS/BATTS.HTM
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 6:47:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,sci.electronics.misc (More info?)

CWatters wrote:
> "asdf" <dfsa@sadf.com> wrote in message
> news:83hce.20927$RP1.12463@fe10.lga...
>
>>considering buying this one by energizer:
>>
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000DIIA...
>
>>to recharge my 2500 Mah rechargeable batteries.
>>
>>One question that i cant find the answer to is: will this charger be able
>
> to
>
>>charge these batteries to their full
>>capacity just in a shorter period of time,
>
>
> One review says...
>
> "I even use them to charge the 2300mAH rechargable AA batteries (Energizers
> of course) n it still takes only 30 minutes tops!"
>
> Note that to charge a 2300mAH cell in 30 mins the charger must supply 4.6A
> per cell roughly.

Hi...

Not nearly enough... about 6.5 amps.

Ken
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 10:06:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:28:27 -0700, David Chien wrote:

> the Rayovac 15 minute chargers were designed for their AAs, so only
> those will fast charge in 15 min to full capacity. Other nimh aas will
> charge, but overnight to full capacity.
>
> here, you'd either want to dump the older AAs completely, or buy another
> charger that handles all nimh batteries for quick charging.

I'm well aware of that Rayovac charger and it's rather poor
design. If it had taken a more reasonable amount of time to charge
standard NiMH cells (from 1 to 3 hours) I might have bought one long
ago. Instead I got a couple of their 1-Hour chargers (PS4). If I
have a need for speed (can't think of the last time it was needed) I
can use the Energizer 30 minute charger.


> 2500mA AAs are out already in Japan and the USA.

I know. I bought 10 of them (Power2000) from J&R back in January.
Even Sony's own brand had 2300mAh AAs last year, and they're rarely
on the cutting edge where batteries are concerned.


> As for charge speed vs. lifespan, keep in mind that you can still get
> 500 cycles or so with fast charging w/a typical 80% remaining capacity
> at the end of 500 cycles (typical no matter what even with slower charge
> cycles due to decaying chemistry). Even if you let them sit for a few
> years, the chemistry inside the batteries decay, so you'll wind up with
> lower maximum capacity even if you rarely use the cells. That's about 1
> 1/2 years to 2 years on an almost daily charge routine.
>
> I'd say, don't worry! either way, in 2-3 years, those cells will be
> pooped no matter what! Just buy the cheap ones if you don't want to
> spend lots of money = (typically <$1 per cell; eg.

I agree. While I don't have any data confirming the above, that's
roughly what I expected. I'd rather pay a little more. The 2500mAh
AA 10-pack I bought was $19.95. Reasonable enough. The only NiMH
batteries I ever bought that had to be returned (to CompUSA) claimed
to be 2100 mAH, but after a number of charge/discharge cycles
performed no better than about 1500 mAh. But that's not the main
reason I returned them. They were slightly longer than the standard
length. So slight I couldn't see any difference. But for two
electrical devices, because of the extra length, they required so
much force to insert that it seemed that eventually they might
fracture the cases.
Anonymous
April 30, 2005 5:24:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

ASAAR <caught@22.com> writes:
> I agree. While I don't have any data confirming the above, that's
> roughly what I expected. I'd rather pay a little more. The 2500mAh
> AA 10-pack I bought was $19.95. Reasonable enough.

That's a very good price. I'd be interested in acquiring a couple of
them from you (borrow or buy) for testing purposes.

Lots of NiMH cell capacity claims these days are exaggerated. The
Energizer 2500 mAH cells ($10 for a 4-pack at Target) appear to be the
real deal. They are said to be relabelled Sanyo HR-3U 2500's, the
current incarnation of the HR-3U which has had a good reputation for a
long time. I have four of the industrial-sleeved HR-3U 2500's ($2.50
each at batterystation.com) on a conditioning cycle on BC-900 charger
right now and it will probably be complete by tomorrow. A few weeks
ago I tested four Energizer 2200's and three of them were above 2200
mAH. The fourth was 2190 mAH or something close to that.
Anonymous
April 30, 2005 9:29:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On 30 Apr 2005 01:24:54 -0700, Paul Rubin
<http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid&gt; wrote:

>> I agree. While I don't have any data confirming the above, that's
>> roughly what I expected. I'd rather pay a little more. The 2500mAh
>> AA 10-pack I bought was $19.95. Reasonable enough.
>
> That's a very good price. I'd be interested in acquiring a couple of
> them from you (borrow or buy) for testing purposes.

I bought them at J&R (www.jr.com or www.jandr.com). Four are in
a camera right now (just the luck of the draw - they get rotated in
and out of several other devices, usually radios) and the other 6
are in a Tivoli portable radio. They'll probably stay there until
they die since I let the radio charge them. J&R also had a 4-pack
of the 2500 mAh AAs but I don't recall the price. Somewhere around
$10 to $12. If you can't find or order them for some reason let me
know and I'll figure something out. Either pick some up from J&R or
open the camera.
April 30, 2005 11:30:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

glad to hear that you think energizer 2500 mahs are good.
I bought a compact charger that came with 4 of the batteries for 22$.
Charger is kind of flimsy but looks like it's charing batteries fine.

"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid&gt; wrote in message
news:7xis24vfhl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> ASAAR <caught@22.com> writes:
> > I agree. While I don't have any data confirming the above, that's
> > roughly what I expected. I'd rather pay a little more. The 2500mAh
> > AA 10-pack I bought was $19.95. Reasonable enough.
>
> That's a very good price. I'd be interested in acquiring a couple of
> them from you (borrow or buy) for testing purposes.
>
> Lots of NiMH cell capacity claims these days are exaggerated. The
> Energizer 2500 mAH cells ($10 for a 4-pack at Target) appear to be the
> real deal. They are said to be relabelled Sanyo HR-3U 2500's, the
> current incarnation of the HR-3U which has had a good reputation for a
> long time. I have four of the industrial-sleeved HR-3U 2500's ($2.50
> each at batterystation.com) on a conditioning cycle on BC-900 charger
> right now and it will probably be complete by tomorrow. A few weeks
> ago I tested four Energizer 2200's and three of them were above 2200
> mAH. The fourth was 2190 mAH or something close to that.
Anonymous
April 30, 2005 11:30:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"asdf" <dfsa@sadf.com> writes:
> glad to hear that you think energizer 2500 mahs are good.
> I bought a compact charger that came with 4 of the batteries for 22$.
> Charger is kind of flimsy but looks like it's charing batteries fine.

If that compact charger is the one I'm thinking of, I believe it's
timer controlled, not a good idea for NiMH. IMO it's worth investing
in a better charger if you're going to bother with rechargeable cells
on any scale.
May 1, 2005 1:35:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

it is timer controller. It turns off after about 8.5 hrs.
If the power goes off it starts over.
However, Im only going to be using it recharge batteries for my flash player
should
be good enough.

What would be good charger under $40 that you would recommend.?

"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid&gt; wrote in message
news:7xd5sbj0tu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> "asdf" <dfsa@sadf.com> writes:
> > glad to hear that you think energizer 2500 mahs are good.
> > I bought a compact charger that came with 4 of the batteries for 22$.
> > Charger is kind of flimsy but looks like it's charing batteries fine.
>
> If that compact charger is the one I'm thinking of, I believe it's
> timer controlled, not a good idea for NiMH. IMO it's worth investing
> in a better charger if you're going to bother with rechargeable cells
> on any scale.
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 1:35:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"asdf" <dfsa@sadf.com> writes:
> What would be good charger under $40 that you would recommend.?

I really like the LaCrosse BC-900. It's $50 but includes four 2000
mAH AA cells, four 700 mAH AAA cells, a carrying case, and four sets
of those shell adapters that puff out AA cells to C or D size. If you
count that stuff as being worth $15-20 you're under your $40 figure.
Its max charge rate (user selectable) is 1800 mA for 1 or 2 cells or
1000 mA for 3 or 4 cells.
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 2:43:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:35:56 -0400, asdf wrote:

> What would be good charger under $40 that you would recommend.?

If you can find it, the Rayovac "1 Hour Charger" is a pretty good
one. Individual circuits and LEDs for up to 4 AAs or AAAs (and an
extra one for 9v batteries). Though not as commonly available as
they used to be (I don't know if they're discontinued or not) they
normally sold for between $35 and $40. But every now and then I'll
see the "kit" version that includes the charger, a 12v auto adapter,
a nylon zippered case and a pair of Rayovac NiMH AA cells in
discount / closeout stores for $19.95.

The last time I thoroughly checked Radio Shack's inventory they
only had one "smart" charger that could charge any number (up to 4)
of AAs or AAAs. It's not the quickest, taking several hours to
charge high capacity batteries. But it's very small, about the size
of a small salt shaker when collapsed. And it has a flip-out plug
so it doesn't need an AC power cord, making it very travel worthy.
It's one of RS's few bargains, selling for about $22 or $24. But
that includes 8 of Radio Shack's NiMH AAA batteries. Well, if you
have a use for AAA's it's a good deal. You won't find it with the
rest of their chargers. It's hidden away in the toy racing car
section, part of their "Xmods" line of products.
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 3:48:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,sci.electronics.misc (More info?)

You can get it from Walmart too. It has good return policy, if you change your
mind later.

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 22:34:31 -0400, "asdf" <dfsa@sadf.com> wrote:

=>considering buying this one by energizer:
=>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000DIIA...
=>to recharge my 2500 Mah rechargeable batteries.
=>
=>One question that i cant find the answer to is: will this charger be able to
=>charge these batteries to their full
=>capacity just in a shorter period of time, or if it will charge them but
=>only partially in the first 15 minutes.
=>Is this charger just as good as the others but just have some advanced
=>technology to charge faster or is there
=>a tradeoff to its ability to charge quickly?
=>
=>So would you recommend i get one of the 8-11 hour chargers or is this one
=>will be able to charge my batteries
=>to their full capacity.
=>
=>Thank You
=>
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 12:02:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,sci.electronics.misc,sci.chem.electrochem.battery (More info?)

In article <7xoeby2tkw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid&gt; wrote:
>
>My favorite AA charger is the LaCrosse BC-900 which has an
>LCD display that shows the cells' measured capacity etc. For your
>2500 mAh cells the charge time would be around 3 hours, which isn't
>too bad in most situations. I have this charger and the Energizer 15
>min charger. I like the Energizer but I figure I'll reserve it for
>when I'm in a hurry, which does happen sometimes.

Thanks for the "heads up" on this new product. LaCrosse is a company that
sells radio-controlled watches, weather vanes, and the like ... not the
sort of house you'd expect to be marketing a leading-edge battery charger!
But, yet it is. From the styling it clearly looks European (German ...
like Accupower or Ansmann) in design.

After drooling over the specs I quickly ordered one from Thomas
Distributing and have been playing with it for a couple of days now. What
an amazing "thinking person's" product. Too bad it uses a weird power
supply spec (3VDC at 4A) or it'd be nice to run it in the car too.

Seemed to be "obsolete proof" too ... until I noticed that the firmware is
only set up to keep track of cells of 3000 mAH capacity and lower. I don't
suppose that advances in NiMH chemistry will result in 3100 mAH penlite
cells any time soon ...??
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 12:02:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Fri, 6 May 2005 20:02:08 +0000 (UTC), Mike S. wrote:

> Seemed to be "obsolete proof" too ... until I noticed that the firmware is
> only set up to keep track of cells of 3000 mAH capacity and lower. I don't
> suppose that advances in NiMH chemistry will result in 3100 mAH penlite
> cells any time soon ...??

My first NiMH cells were IIRC only 900mah (possibly less), but
that was quite a long time ago. As they're now up to 2,500mah
that's been an increase of 178%. To reach 3,100mah would only
require an increase of another 24%. If the trend continues at the
same rate you should see 3,100mah batteries in 1 1/2 years, 2 at the
most. Is the firmware upgradeable?
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 12:22:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,sci.electronics.misc,sci.chem.electrochem.battery (More info?)

In article <4jjn71di8fgpkp6k0oulgi8tpkbk9c7hjm@4ax.com>,
ASAAR <reply@tueue.com.invalid> wrote:
>On Fri, 6 May 2005 20:02:08 +0000 (UTC), Mike S. wrote:
>
>> Seemed to be "obsolete proof" too ... until I noticed that the firmware is
>> only set up to keep track of cells of 3000 mAH capacity and lower. I don't
>> suppose that advances in NiMH chemistry will result in 3100 mAH penlite
>> cells any time soon ...??
>
> My first NiMH cells were IIRC only 900mah (possibly less), but
>that was quite a long time ago. As they're now up to 2,500mah
>that's been an increase of 178%. To reach 3,100mah would only
>require an increase of another 24%. If the trend continues at the
>same rate you should see 3,100mah batteries in 1 1/2 years, 2 at the
>most. Is the firmware upgradeable?

The unit displays a firmware rev on power-up, but the manual makes no
mention about upgradeability. Maybe time to take a look inside to see if
there is a data connector or pads.
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 12:22:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Fri, 6 May 2005 20:22:21 +0000 (UTC), Mike S. wrote:

> The unit displays a firmware rev on power-up, but the manual makes no
> mention about upgradeability. Maybe time to take a look inside to see if
> there is a data connector or pads.

Sometimes products sold in low numbers simply swap out EPROMs.
I've done that several times before, but the last time was a number
of years ago, with USR and Hayes modems among others.
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 3:01:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <s7on71d9569tq3jndu0knjt69369ouk3jo@4ax.com>,
ASAAR <reply@tueue.com.invalid> wrote:
>On Fri, 6 May 2005 20:22:21 +0000 (UTC), Mike S. wrote:
>
>> The unit displays a firmware rev on power-up, but the manual makes no
>> mention about upgradeability. Maybe time to take a look inside to see if
>> there is a data connector or pads.
>
> Sometimes products sold in low numbers simply swap out EPROMs.
>I've done that several times before, but the last time was a number
>of years ago, with USR and Hayes modems among others.

I asked - and got an amazingly fast email reply. The firmware is not
upgradeable. The tech rep expressed considerable doubt that improvements
over the energy density of current NiMH cells would ever lead to anything
over 3000 mAH in an AA cell.
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 3:01:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Fri, 6 May 2005 23:01:50 +0000 (UTC), Mike S. wrote:

> I asked - and got an amazingly fast email reply. The firmware is not
> upgradeable. The tech rep expressed considerable doubt that improvements
> over the energy density of current NiMH cells would ever lead to anything
> over 3000 mAH in an AA cell.

Well, at least you have it in writing, not that it'll help. I
wonder if their competition (Accupower/Ansmann) agrees or has
similar limitations? I don't know if their tech. rep. cares to
discuss it further, but it would be interesting to know how old the
BC-900 design is and if it (or a predecessor) had the 3,000 mah
limit from the beginning. I assume that the BC-900 will still be
able to charge higher capacity cells but might not be able to
perform some of its other functions properly. Care to try jury
rigging a NiMH C or D cell to it? If you don't, two AA's in
parallel might suffice. I was considering getting a BC-900 to add
to my growing collection, but I think now I'll either wait or look
elsewhere.
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 3:05:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,sci.electronics.misc,sci.chem.electrochem.battery (More info?)

retsuhcs@xinap.moc (Mike S.) writes:
> After drooling over the specs I quickly ordered one from Thomas
> Distributing and have been playing with it for a couple of days now. What
> an amazing "thinking person's" product. Too bad it uses a weird power
> supply spec (3VDC at 4A) or it'd be nice to run it in the car too.

Yeah, the Energizer 15 minute charger can run on 12 volts and I figure
it's better than the LaCrosse for use in the car, since it's so much
faster. You don't need to be on a long trip to get enough charge time.

> Seemed to be "obsolete proof" too ... until I noticed that the firmware is
> only set up to keep track of cells of 3000 mAH capacity and lower. I don't
> suppose that advances in NiMH chemistry will result in 3100 mAH penlite
> cells any time soon ...??

I dunno. NiMH capacity increases may be slowing down? I'm using
Sanyo 2500 mAH cells now, and most of of mine measure slightly below
2500 mAH on the LaCrosse, as opposed to the Energizer 2200 mAH cells
(believed to actually be Sanyo) mostly measuring slightly above 2200.
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 4:25:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,sci.chem.electrochem.battery,sci.electronics.misc (More info?)

In article <4ttn71lskqldgnbg8hs3mov0172q4ud8d2@4ax.com>,
ASAAR <reply@tueue.com.invalid> wrote:
>On Fri, 6 May 2005 23:01:50 +0000 (UTC), Mike S. wrote:
>
>> I asked - and got an amazingly fast email reply. The firmware is not
>> upgradeable. The tech rep expressed considerable doubt that improvements
>> over the energy density of current NiMH cells would ever lead to anything
>> over 3000 mAH in an AA cell.
>
> Well, at least you have it in writing, not that it'll help. I
>wonder if their competition (Accupower/Ansmann) agrees or has
>similar limitations?

Ansmann learned their lesson, I think. My version of the Powerline-4 has
a brick wall timer limit (the HP Marketing rep that visits here every now
and then hedged back and forth but finally admitted it). This makes it
impossible to fully charge cells much over 2100 mAH in one run. They fixed
that on later designs - but that didn't help me, of course.

>I don't know if their tech. rep. cares to
>discuss it further, but it would be interesting to know how old the
>BC-900 design is and if it (or a predecessor) had the 3,000 mah
>limit from the beginning. I assume that the BC-900 will still be
>able to charge higher capacity cells but might not be able to
>perform some of its other functions properly.

I'm not so sure. Everything is controlled by the microprocessor, even a
"straight" charge run. It keeps track of (and displays) the amount of
energy delivered to each individual cell ... so if there is some high
limit to the charge capacity it might be reached on higher capacity cells,
too.

>Care to try jury
>rigging a NiMH C or D cell to it? If you don't, two AA's in
>parallel might suffice.

I'll put that on my "to do" list. At this point I'm still getting familiar
on how it handles old, new, and "damaged" cells of much lower capacity
than 3000 mAH.

>I was considering getting a BC-900 to add
>to my growing collection, but I think now I'll either wait or look
>elsewhere.

If you're into this sort of thing, I think it's still worth investigating.
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 6:20:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,sci.electronics.misc,sci.chem.electrochem.battery (More info?)

LaCrosse is a company that
> sells radio-controlled watches, weather vanes, and the like ... not the
> sort of house you'd expect to be marketing a leading-edge battery charger!

FWIW, they absolutely support their products. They sent me a new weather
sensor to replace one that hit concrete hard as a result of a failed mount.
No arguments.
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 9:15:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,sci.chem.electrochem.battery,sci.electronics.misc (More info?)

In article <d5h1tg$jnl$1@reader1.panix.com>,
retsuhcs@xinap.moc (Mike S.) wrote:

> My version of the Powerline-4 has
> a brick wall timer limit (the HP Marketing rep that visits here every now
> and then hedged back and forth but finally admitted it). This makes it
> impossible to fully charge cells much over 2100 mAH in one run. They fixed
> that on later designs - but that didn't help me, of course.

My 3 year old Ansmann Powerline Traveller right now is charging Ansmann
and PRO 2500 cells. Your will also.

My Energy 16 also does these cells with no problems. I fully expect both
chargers to handle the 2600 Ansmann cells as well when they are
available.

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 5:09:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,sci.chem.electrochem.battery,sci.electronics.misc (More info?)

In article <bob_salomon-A0BAE8.05154007052005@news.isp.giganews.com>,
Bob Salomon <bob_salomon@mindspring.com> wrote:
>In article <d5h1tg$jnl$1@reader1.panix.com>,
> retsuhcs@xinap.moc (Mike S.) wrote:
>
>> My version of the Powerline-4 has
>> a brick wall timer limit (the HP Marketing rep that visits here every now
>> and then hedged back and forth but finally admitted it). This makes it
>> impossible to fully charge cells much over 2100 mAH in one run. They fixed
>> that on later designs - but that didn't help me, of course.
>
>My 3 year old Ansmann Powerline Traveller right now is charging Ansmann
>and PRO 2500 cells. Your will also.

Nope. It has a 3-hour cutoff timer. At 700 mA charge rate ... you can do
the math :-(
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 5:09:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,sci.chem.electrochem.battery,sci.electronics.misc (More info?)

In article <d5ielq$obb$1@reader1.panix.com>,
retsuhcs@xinap.moc (Mike S.) wrote:

> In article <bob_salomon-A0BAE8.05154007052005@news.isp.giganews.com>,
> Bob Salomon <bob_salomon@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >In article <d5h1tg$jnl$1@reader1.panix.com>,
> > retsuhcs@xinap.moc (Mike S.) wrote:
> >
> >> My version of the Powerline-4 has
> >> a brick wall timer limit (the HP Marketing rep that visits here every now
> >> and then hedged back and forth but finally admitted it). This makes it
> >> impossible to fully charge cells much over 2100 mAH in one run. They fixed
> >> that on later designs - but that didn't help me, of course.
> >
> >My 3 year old Ansmann Powerline Traveller right now is charging Ansmann
> >and PRO 2500 cells. Your will also.
>
> Nope. It has a 3-hour cutoff timer. At 700 mA charge rate ... you can do
> the math :-(

The advantages of modern technology. Electronics progress but the
printing in the instructions and on the back of chargers don't change as
fast.

The Ansmann Powerline 4, 6 and the Energy 16 and 8 all charge 2500 mAh.
Of course they don't do it as fast as the latest Ansmann DigiPower Ultra
which outputs 4.3A for AA cells.

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 5:09:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sat, 07 May 2005 09:20:35 -0400, Bob Salomon wrote:

>>>My 3 year old Ansmann Powerline Traveller right now is charging Ansmann
>>>and PRO 2500 cells. Your will also.
>>
>> Nope. It has a 3-hour cutoff timer. At 700 mA charge rate ... you can do
>> the math :-(
>
> The advantages of modern technology. Electronics progress but the
> printing in the instructions and on the back of chargers don't change as
> fast.
>
> The Ansmann Powerline 4, 6 and the Energy 16 and 8 all charge 2500 mAh.
> Of course they don't do it as fast as the latest Ansmann DigiPower Ultra
> which outputs 4.3A for AA cells.

I did the math. and if the hardware has been improved but the
printed specifications haven't been updated, then to fully charge
2,500 mAh cells (assuming either no trickle charge after the 3 hour
cutoff or a low rate trickle charge) would require one of two
changes (or both). One would require bumping up the charge rate
from 700ma to 833ma, possible only if there was 100% efficiency and
no heat produced (impossible) or about 1,100 ma if the usual 1.4
overcharge factor is used. The other would require increasing the
cutoff timer from 3 to 5 hours. Or, as indicated, increasing both a
somewhat lesser amount to get the same result.

It should be possible for you to easily verify whether your 3 year
old Ansmann charger has been improved beyond what its specifications
indicate, if you have a number of NiMH cells of significantly
different mAh ratings, by noting how long it takes the charger to
charge fully depleted batteries, and getting a rough indication of
how hot the batteries get when the charger finishes. A 700 mAh
charge rate with a 3 hour cutoff timer would be just about right for
charging 1,500 or 1,600 mAh cells. So it would be helpful if you
have any cells of this capacity or lower.
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 5:09:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <v7rp7190d3r7veigq76o5vs2pqnsp6bu2f@4ax.com>,
ASAAR <caught@22.com> wrote:

> after the 3 hour

The Powerline 4 has a 5 hour cutoff not a 3 hour cutoff.

So 2500 x 1.4 = 3500/700 = 5 hours so it fully charges a totally
depleted 2500 mAh NiMh AA cell in 5 hours. Less then fully depleted in
less time.

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 5:11:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,sci.electronics.misc,sci.chem.electrochem.battery (More info?)

In article <wvmdndHL3eGTw-HfRVn-qw@rogers.com>,
Fifty Hertz <upturned@hotmail.com> wrote:
> LaCrosse is a company that
>> sells radio-controlled watches, weather vanes, and the like ... not the
>> sort of house you'd expect to be marketing a leading-edge battery charger!
>
>FWIW, they absolutely support their products. They sent me a new weather
>sensor to replace one that hit concrete hard as a result of a failed mount.
>No arguments.

I should have mentioned that I had experience with this company prior to
getting the BC-900 charger. I have a discontinued-model radio-controlled
watch that would not set itself automatically quite some time after the
warranty had expired. They simply sent me a new one.
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 5:33:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sat, 07 May 2005 13:08:40 -0400, Bob Salomon wrote:

>> after the 3 hour
>
> The Powerline 4 has a 5 hour cutoff not a 3 hour cutoff.
>
> So 2500 x 1.4 = 3500/700 = 5 hours so it fully charges a totally
> depleted 2500 mAh NiMh AA cell in 5 hours. Less then fully depleted in
> less time.

Good, our math agrees. I predicted that going to a 5 hour cutoff
would be one way to fully charge 2,500 mAh cells (which your quote
obscured at best). It's the more inexpensive, practical way to do
it, at the expense of requiring 2 more hours. But a 5 hour cutoff
really should be designed into a charger that normally complete its
charge in 4 or 4.5 hours, meaning that it's more appropriate for
chargers designed for batteries having capacities up to 2,000 or
2,200 mAh.
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 5:42:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <vcup71117ldamlib9rvdpt8a101ahattbk@4ax.com>,
ASAAR <caught@22.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 07 May 2005 13:08:40 -0400, Bob Salomon wrote:
>
> >> after the 3 hour
> >
> > The Powerline 4 has a 5 hour cutoff not a 3 hour cutoff.
> >
> > So 2500 x 1.4 = 3500/700 = 5 hours so it fully charges a totally
> > depleted 2500 mAh NiMh AA cell in 5 hours. Less then fully depleted in
> > less time.
>
> Good, our math agrees. I predicted that going to a 5 hour cutoff
> would be one way to fully charge 2,500 mAh cells (which your quote
> obscured at best). It's the more inexpensive, practical way to do
> it, at the expense of requiring 2 more hours. But a 5 hour cutoff
> really should be designed into a charger that normally complete its
> charge in 4 or 4.5 hours, meaning that it's more appropriate for
> chargers designed for batteries having capacities up to 2,000 or
> 2,200 mAh.

Of course Ansmann still has the Digipower 1 hour charger and the
DigipowerUltra with 4300mAh output and their automatic fan cooled
cooling systems.

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 3:26:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <bob_salomon-3C599A.13084007052005@news.isp.giganews.com>,
Bob Salomon <bob_salomon@mindspring.com> wrote:
>In article <v7rp7190d3r7veigq76o5vs2pqnsp6bu2f@4ax.com>,
> ASAAR <caught@22.com> wrote:
>
>> after the 3 hour
>
>The Powerline 4 has a 5 hour cutoff not a 3 hour cutoff.
>
>So 2500 x 1.4 = 3500/700 = 5 hours so it fully charges a totally
>depleted 2500 mAh NiMh AA cell in 5 hours. Less then fully depleted in
>less time.

Not per my printed instructions.

Remember this exchange?


http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/m...

> Mike [still smarting from the Powerline 4 with hidden "brick wall" timer
> that prevents single-cycle charging to today's veyr high capacity cells].

If you have an old enough Powerline 4 or 6 that could happen. These
chargers well predate 2000 to 2500 cells. The later versions of these
chargers do charge the high capacity cells coming to market now.
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 3:26:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <d5jir5$eeo$1@reader1.panix.com>,
retsuhcs@xinap.moc (Mike S.) wrote:

> In article <bob_salomon-3C599A.13084007052005@news.isp.giganews.com>,
> Bob Salomon <bob_salomon@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >In article <v7rp7190d3r7veigq76o5vs2pqnsp6bu2f@4ax.com>,
> > ASAAR <caught@22.com> wrote:
> >
> >> after the 3 hour
> >
> >The Powerline 4 has a 5 hour cutoff not a 3 hour cutoff.
> >
> >So 2500 x 1.4 = 3500/700 = 5 hours so it fully charges a totally
> >depleted 2500 mAh NiMh AA cell in 5 hours. Less then fully depleted in
> >less time.
>
> Not per my printed instructions.
>
> Remember this exchange?
>
>
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/m...
> de=source&hl=en
>
> > Mike [still smarting from the Powerline 4 with hidden "brick wall" timer
> > that prevents single-cycle charging to today's veyr high capacity cells].
>
> If you have an old enough Powerline 4 or 6 that could happen. These
> chargers well predate 2000 to 2500 cells. The later versions of these
> chargers do charge the high capacity cells coming to market now.

The instructions have been corrected. See the Ansmann web site for a
corrected copy.

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 2:28:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,sci.electronics.misc (More info?)

What is the voltage/current output of the AC/DC adapter that comes with
the BC-900?

I'm wondering why it doesn't have an option for in-vehicle charging. I
know that on one Ansmann charger, they are concerned about the heat
that is exhausted, so they don't offer a car cord option, even though
it would work other than the danger of setting your car on fire!

Steve
http://nordicgroup.us/chargers
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 4:08:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,sci.electronics.misc (More info?)

scharf.steven@gmail.com writes:
> What is the voltage/current output of the AC/DC adapter that comes with
> the BC-900?

4 volts, I forget the amperage.

> I'm wondering why it doesn't have an option for in-vehicle charging.

You could use a 12vdc to 120 vac inverter.

> I know that on one Ansmann charger, they are concerned about the
> heat that is exhausted, so they don't offer a car cord option, even
> though it would work other than the danger of setting your car on fire!

I wonder if there's an issue like that for the Energizer 15 min
charger, which does run on 12 volts but for some reason doesn't
include or offer a car cord. I'd feel ok using it in a car as long as
it wasn't buried under anything and its fan could get plenty of air.
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 7:05:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On 9 May 2005 10:28:36 -0700, scharf.steven@gmail.com wrote:

> What is the voltage/current output of the AC/DC adapter that comes with
> the BC-900?
>
> I'm wondering why it doesn't have an option for in-vehicle charging. I
> know that on one Ansmann charger, they are concerned about the heat
> that is exhausted, so they don't offer a car cord option, even though
> it would work other than the danger of setting your car on fire!

In another message in this thread, Paul said:

> Its max charge rate (user selectable) is 1800 mA for 1 or 2 cells or
> 1000 mA for 3 or 4 cells.

The design of the charger can be a very big factor in determining
the practicality of having a car cord option. My Rayovac One Hour
Charger came with a nylon zippered travel case as well as a car
cord. But the charger's design required only a 15.5 volt/1.3 amp,
20 VA(watts) transformer, easily handled by the voltage drop down
circuit in the car cord adapter. The BC-900 on the other hand might
require a much lower DC voltage input. The worst case scenario
would have that at 3 volts. That means the voltage drop in the car
cord would be 10 or more volts, resulting in the car cord having to
dissipate more than 40 watts in the form of wasted heat. If you
think AA batteries get hot in a really fast charger, the car cord
would be a scorcher and need its own cooling fan. That said, I'd be
surprised if the BC-900 didn't require a more sensible, higher DC
voltage, but even if it is 6 or 9 volts, a car cord for it would
still get extremely hot, perhaps dangerously so.
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 7:05:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

ASAAR <caught@22.com> writes:
> The BC-900 on the other hand might require a much lower DC voltage
> input. The worst case scenario would have that at 3 volts. That
> means the voltage drop in the car cord would be 10 or more volts,
> resulting in the car cord having to dissipate more than 40 watts in
> the form of wasted heat.

It's 4 volts input, but a car adapter could use a switching converter
and lose very little energy. The simplest approach is use a 12 vdc
to 120 vac inverter though.
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 10:56:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On 09 May 2005 12:48:44 -0700, Paul Rubin
<http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid&gt; wrote:

> It's 4 volts input, but a car adapter could use a switching converter
> and lose very little energy. The simplest approach is use a 12 vdc
> to 120 vac inverter though.

True, but then the reason why those aren't offered is probably a
business decision. Those adapters should be at least slightly more
expensive than the typical car cords, which might make them too
unprofitable to make for the small numbers they'd probably expect to
sell.
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 11:23:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,sci.electronics.misc (More info?)

In article <1115659716.424766.62430@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
<scharf.steven@gmail.com> wrote:
>What is the voltage/current output of the AC/DC adapter that comes with
>the BC-900?

3VDC at 4 amperes.

>I'm wondering why it doesn't have an option for in-vehicle charging. I
>know that on one Ansmann charger, they are concerned about the heat
>that is exhausted, so they don't offer a car cord option, even though
>it would work other than the danger of setting your car on fire!

Converting 12VDC to 3VDC at such a high current would probably add
significantly to the overall cost, and would not be a selling point for
many buyers.
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 11:23:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,sci.electronics.misc (More info?)

Mike S. wrote:
> In article <1115659716.424766.62430@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> <scharf.steven@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>What is the voltage/current output of the AC/DC adapter that comes with
>>the BC-900?
>
>
> 3VDC at 4 amperes.
>
>
>>I'm wondering why it doesn't have an option for in-vehicle charging. I
>>know that on one Ansmann charger, they are concerned about the heat
>>that is exhausted, so they don't offer a car cord option, even though
>>it would work other than the danger of setting your car on fire!
>
>
> Converting 12VDC to 3VDC at such a high current would probably add
> significantly to the overall cost, and would not be a selling point for
> many buyers.
>
You could use it to warm your coffee.... Dual purpose appliance.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 1:19:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

ASAAR <caught@22.com> wrote:

> True, but then the reason why those aren't offered is probably a
>business decision. Those adapters should be at least slightly more
>expensive than the typical car cords, which might make them too
>unprofitable to make for the small numbers they'd probably expect to
>sell.

Radioshack makes a nice low-voltage switching converter that
takes wide range of input and selectable output, for laptop
power. It produces several amps and is very portable. Complete
with cigarette plug and "Empower" connector for 15V airplane use.
--
Ken Tough
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 1:19:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Tue, 10 May 2005 09:19:14 +0200, Ken Tough wrote:

>> True, but then the reason why those aren't offered is probably a
>>business decision. Those adapters should be at least slightly more
>>expensive than the typical car cords, which might make them too
>>unprofitable to make for the small numbers they'd probably expect to
>>sell.
>
> Radioshack makes a nice low-voltage switching converter that
> takes wide range of input and selectable output, for laptop
> power. It produces several amps and is very portable. Complete
> with cigarette plug and "Empower" connector for 15V airplane use.

That might be the sort of device that could power the charger in a
car, but I suspect it would cost more than the charger. About a
year ago I saw an unusual little battery charger (for a couple of
AAs) that had a cord that allowed it to also provide power to small
electronic devices. Instead of being priced slightly higher than
the usual $10 to $15 that RS charges for their small transformers
and chargers, they wanted $40 for it. I imagine that RS would want
at least that much for the switching converter that you mentioned.
It would probably be worth more than that, but not if it was used
just to allow a battery charger to operate from a car's 12v supply.
Sounds like a good product though, and it's nice to see that
switching converters are starting to become used more frequently.
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 2:01:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

ASAAR <caught@22.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 10 May 2005 09:19:14 +0200, Ken Tough wrote:
>> Radioshack makes a nice low-voltage switching converter that
>> takes wide range of input and selectable output, for laptop
>> power. It produces several amps and is very portable. Complete
>> with cigarette plug and "Empower" connector for 15V airplane use.

> That might be the sort of device that could power the charger in a
>car, but I suspect it would cost more than the charger.

I've had a second look at the spec of the one I've got, and it
only goes down to 12V. I thought it was lower than that (12V-27V,
3.75A/60W.

It would be nice to see a wider selection of devices powered off 12V
in general. As future cars move to 48V DC (or thereabouts) perhaps
it'll be more common to see DC input devices.

>About a
>year ago I saw an unusual little battery charger (for a couple of
>AAs) that had a cord that allowed it to also provide power to small
>electronic devices. Instead of being priced slightly higher than
>the usual $10 to $15 that RS charges for their small transformers
>and chargers, they wanted $40 for it. I imagine that RS would want
>at least that much for the switching converter that you mentioned.

Yes, in fact it's $63 (cat 273-1827). As you say, if you use it for
laptops or multiple uses, it's worth it. Perhaps Radioshack/RS do
lower-voltage converters too.

--
Ken Tough
!