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GTX 570 vs 2x 6850, planning new build

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October 5, 2011 3:00:46 AM

Hello all, and thanks for your advice. I'm planning to build a new gaming rig in about 2-3 months and keep going back and forth on video cards..

I was originally planning to go with this card:

MSI R6950 Twin Frozr III 2GB ($280 after rebate).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Then I started reading that 2GB isn't really necessary for single display 1920x1200, and that the GTX570 is a step above the 6950 in performance.

After researching the 570 and seeing these BFBC2 benchmark comparisons I was a bit a shocked:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-570-gf1...

Are two 6850's in crossfire the way to go over a single 570? Should I worry about micro-stuttering, extra heat, additional power consumption?

The GTX570 I am considering is this:

ASUS ENGTX570 DCII/2DIS/1280MD5 ---$320 after rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

The 6850 I am considering is this:

2xGIGABYTE Ultra Durable VGA Series GV-R685OC-1GD Radeon HD 6850 1GB ---$300 after rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Below is the rest of my relevant info:

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APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: December/January BUDGET RANGE: $250 ~ $350 (for the video card) After Rebates

USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT: Gaming: BFBC2, BF3. Photo-editing/Adobe CS5 work for design & architecture work, Autodesk REVIT, AutoCAD, etc

CURRENT GPU AND POWER SUPPLY: Dell Studio XPS 16 (1645) laptop with AMD Radeon HD6570M/5700 series

OTHER RELEVANT SYSTEM SPECS:

Planned build includes:

**Video card TBD $250 ~ $350

Cooler Master HAF 912 case $60
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

GIGABYTE GA-Z68XP-UD3 motherboard $150
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

i5 2500k $220
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

XIGMATEK Gaia heatsink/fan $30
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

SeaSonic X750 Gold power supply $160
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Crucial M4 64GB SSD $105
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 64MB cache $80
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB $52
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

ASUS DVD burner $20
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


PREFERRED WEBSITE FOR PARTS: newegg COUNTRY OF ORIGIN: USA

PARTS PREFERENCES: whatever is the best for BF3 gaming and above mentioned Adobe CS5 / Autodesk software

OVERCLOCKING: Maybe SLI OR CROSSFIRE: Maybe

MONITOR RESOLUTION: 1920x1200 single display

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: looking for something a step above the average; something with excellent cooling and performance
a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 3:22:57 AM

Let's swap around a couple of your parts.

HDD: Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB. It's just as fast as a Caviar Black and was on sale for $50 on Newegg last weekend. I own 3.

DVD: Newegg has an ASUS DVD burner on sale for $17. I suggest that one.

RAM: Any 1600CL9 will do, you could spend $45 instead for 1600CL9 or $50 for G. Skill 1600CL8 if it comes back on sale.

PSU: I'd be happy with a Corsair TX750, but that's me.

GPU: Here's some info on micro-stuttering: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-geforce-stut...
You can decide if you're worried about it or not.

At your resolution, you need more than what 6850's can handle. I'd go for 6950 2GB's or maybe a single GTX 560Ti for $180. The 6950's will tie a GTX 570 once you SLI them and thoroughly trounce SLI'd GTX 560Ti's. And the 2GB frame buffer will matter at that resolution. Even if Newegg doesn't have those prices I just quoted at this very moment, you can sign up for their email list and you'll see the prices in the next week or two. Slickdeals had the 6950 2GB at $20 a couple days ago: http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3346094
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October 5, 2011 3:41:06 AM

Thanks dalauder; are you suggesting I go with 2x 6950 2GB in crossfire? I don't think that's in my budget. I'm debating between 2x 6850 1GB in crossfire VS a single GTX570...
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a c 595 U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 4:22:32 AM

Go with the single GTX 570 for stability, convenience, and Nvidia goodness.
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 4:23:00 AM

go with the single gtx 570. the micro stutter is very prominent with the 6850 xfire, and the 570 will run anythign you throw at it; i should know i have one
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October 5, 2011 5:47:16 AM

best choice is GTX 570.
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 6:36:07 AM

I'm suggesting a single 6950 2GB for now. Then a second next year on sale sometime. Considering I've never heard of a GTX 570 for under $249 and 6950 2GB's sometimes go for $199, I'd go for the 2GB 6950. At your high resolution, the 2GB might help and it's a good deal price/performance.

So I say spend $220 on a 6950 2GB instead of $280 on a GTX 570.

Not only do you save money, but if you ever switch to a dual card setup, you'll get just as good of performance and have an extra $120 or so in your pocket.
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October 5, 2011 12:56:08 PM

Going with the MSI 6950 Twin Frozr III ($280 after MIR) is what I had originally planned. BUT, I'm paying a premium to have 2GB vs. 1GB, and am having a hard time deciding if it's worth it. For just a little more money I could go with the GTX570, which people say is more powerful.

What 2GB 6950 have you seen for $200. I don't want to spend my money on bottom shelf parts. It's worth the money to me to have quality parts, efficiency and excellent cooling.
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October 5, 2011 2:24:52 PM

Why is amd-fanboy recommending an nVidia card?? haha!

Actually, I have no idea what the hassles are with a dual card configuration, so that's why I'm asking. I appreciate your input. It seems like the detrimental effects outweigh the increase in performance when it comes to SLI / CF..

I think I'll pony-up and go for this card:

ASUS ENGTX570 DCII/2DIS/1280MD5 GeForce GTX 570 (Fermi) 1280MB 320-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

$320 after mail-in-rebate.

My mouth started watering after I watched newegg's product presentation showcasing ASUS' proprietary enhancements to the board and cooling.

Thoughts?
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 2:27:15 PM

OP

yes the asus dc2 models are damn nice I have the gtx 560ti variety, I would def not go with 6850/70 crossfire it is garbage and has terrible microstuttering, forget the raw power difference the gtx 570 will be much more stable and enjoyable, also you will be able to oc the dc2 model to high hell!!! have fun

I had 6870 crossfire and the micro stuttering was unbearable...
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October 5, 2011 2:28:50 PM

Thanks, JJB.

What's OP?
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 2:32:04 PM

Original Poster----->>> thats you buddy! :bounce: 
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 2:32:51 PM

my ASUS GTX 560ti holds a 1ghz core oc and is practically on par with a gtx 570 (sometimes beating it) just to let you know the asus dc2 models Rock!
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October 5, 2011 2:45:05 PM

Double thanks, JJB. I see you're using a 650W PSU. How does it hold up with what you have? I was going to go with a 750W PSU, but can see that if I go with a 650W I can save about $30.

I would either go with this 750W:
CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX750 V2 750W ATX12V v2.31/ EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC High Performance Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Or this 650W:
CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX650 V2 650W ATX12V v2.31/ EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC High Performance Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

I don't see myself going SLI anytime soon if I buy the ASUS 570 do you think 650W is enough with the i5 2500k and other parts I listed in the original post?
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 3:04:09 PM

I run my system with a 570 on a 600w without any issues
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October 5, 2011 3:20:04 PM

okay now bro if you want a gpu then the GTX570 is quite better than the 6850 because the gtx is single and the 6850 is sli it will also cost you alot and if you compare the gtx570 sli and the 6850 sli so you will see that the gtx 570 is much better than the 6850
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October 5, 2011 3:31:13 PM

Thanks amd-fanboy and FlintIronStagg - I think I'll go with the 650W and justify spending a little more on the ASUS 570 :) 
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 3:31:58 PM

very good choice - the asus DCII is a GREAT card.
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October 5, 2011 5:09:48 PM

Just one remark by the end of the year hd7xxx and gtx6xx will be close to release so postpone your decission til the last moment. If you need to buy before release of the new ones I'd suggest buying a 460 or a 6850 and play for a short while until new cards arrive..
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 5:26:12 PM

true true, although there will be a significant leap in tech and performance with the new series, the 570 is a beast, and will perform nicely for a long time
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October 5, 2011 5:32:43 PM

If you're not going to build for a 2-3months the new cards will be just around the corner, if you're buying now definitely get the 570
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 5:41:37 PM

good choices all around a 650w will do just fine like many have said, you will have plenty of room for ocing that way, and then some.... If you ever do go sli it will run that as well

52Amps on a 12v rail is a lot! and the TX actually delivers what it promises unlike some less reputable psus
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 5:43:52 PM

assassin123 said:
okay now bro if you want a gpu then the GTX570 is quite better than the 6850 because the gtx is single and the 6850 is sli it will also cost you alot and if you compare the gtx570 sli and the 6850 sli so you will see that the gtx 570 is much better than the 6850



...someone needs to do some homework... you are right for the wrong reasons!? :bounce: 
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 7:00:26 PM

Lol.... 6850 in sli?
I'm going to be doing 6850 in crossfire. I've never done it, but for someone like me who's on a budget. I would say do it! But for you it seems that isn't the case as much.
If i were you; i would get the most badass one you could get. Which is the 570. :p 
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 7:10:08 PM

^ 6850 crossfire is a HUGE mistake, I had 6870 crossfire and the micro-stuttering was unbearable, if your on a budget you are better off getting a single affordable gpu imo,

low end crossfire is a huge fail due to the microstutter and driver blunder imo, I would highly recommend looking into a single 6950 or gtx 560ti to anyone thats on a budget over 6850/70 crossfire... did you miss the article toms put out on this very matter about a month ago?
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 7:15:26 PM

^Hmmmmmm...... maybe your right. The 6850 by itself is pretty much on the same level of the 460. And that will get me by for a while. And then i'll upgrade. Prob to a 7xxx card.
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 7:35:18 PM

^ i got that one right now. It's a really nice card for the price. I can max out bf3 1080p.
I'm just worried about the future what i'm going to upgrade to half way through 2012.
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 7:37:52 PM

I'm thinking of the 7xxx series cards.
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 7:38:46 PM

dont worry by that time there will be a new round of gpus available from Nvidia and AMD hopefully...

yeah its a decently powerful card but by no means will max out the full version of bf3 at 1080p, maybe on medium but its all just speculating,

But overall I wouldn't worry to much you have some decent hardware and there will be many options available down the road

Have you oc'ed your current 6850 yet?
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 7:42:17 PM

Yeah! To 850mhz, i saw a 10 fps increase in furmark. I'm pretty happy with it. Its just i can't use my computer because i'm in foster care. :'p
But in may of 2012 i will!
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 7:49:08 PM

^sorry to hear that, hopefully things will look up for you, and at least you have a nice rig to look forward to :) 
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 7:51:14 PM

Yeah, but it'll prob be a paper weight in 2012. LOL
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 7:57:03 PM

^just sell it on ebay and upgrade, get a job and save your money
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 8:01:32 PM

I wish i could get a job. Well i'm going to be 18 on may 27 so i'll get one then.
Oh yeah FYI. In foster care you can't get a job. They like to say "we're trying to help you for the future". But they don't let you get a job. I'm going to be off the computer for a few hours. I'm at school lol
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 8:04:00 PM

Good luck, thats a world that I do not know much about so all I can say is work hard when you can!
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 10:14:39 PM

Sorry, I meant to link that earlier: http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3346094
This deal's dead now, but two weeks ago NCIX had the 6950 2GB for $200 after $30 rebate.
They also had it for $210 AR the next day: http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3348026

The MSI Twin Frozr III is a bit more expensive than I'd pay. I'd just get a case with good cooling and you'll probably hit instability in an overclock due to core/memory limitations before you end up heat limited.
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 10:52:36 PM

@tisue001--That TX650 is a great deal right now (w/ promo code & rebate). The XFX Core Edition PRO650W is the same price right now: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
I mention that XFX because they're a great brand and I have a couple things for you to think about...

1) Is it an issue that the ASUS GTX 570 you picked above uses 3 expansion slots? That messes with PCI-e spacing on some motherboards.

2) Are you going to want to do SLI in the future? Because that PSU cannot handle two GTX 570's.

3) Have you considered saving cash and getting a single GTX 560Ti? They overclock better than anything else...AND a 650W PSU can handle two in SLI.

4) The XFX PSU I linked has 2x 6-pin connectors AND 2x 6+2-pin (8-pin) connectors. That allows the hookup of two GTX 560Ti's without using those 4-pin molex to 6-pin adapters.

Gigabyte GTX 560Ti: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Does anyone really think this Gigabyte won't cool well enough? Really, I'm curious why anyone needs the Asus DCII/MSI Twin Frozr III's when their cases have good cooling.
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 11:27:56 PM

^because they are awesome, and I got my gtx 560ti DC2 for 190AR a few months back
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 11:31:41 PM

Yeah, but my [more or less] reference GTX 470 is awesome. I was hoping you could explain the actual benefits beyond a card like that Gigabyte I linked that should have great cooling in its own right.

Btw, I think all new GeForces GTX 560 Ti's come with Batman Arkham City, but that's not showing up on that Gigabyte page. Considering shipping is not free, that only makes it $15 cheaper, which isn't worth it if that means no free games.
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2011 11:57:49 PM

whens the new batman come out
??
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a b U Graphics card
October 6, 2011 12:13:46 AM

Oops, I meant Arkham City is supposed to be free.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman:_Arkham_City
It comes out Oct. 18th. I think I'll wait 'til Steam has it for $7.50 next fall. I won't have time to play it anyhow.
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October 6, 2011 3:52:55 AM

dalauder said:
@tisue001--That TX650 is a great deal right now (w/ promo code & rebate). The XFX Core Edition PRO650W is the same price right now: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
I mention that XFX because they're a great brand and I have a couple things for you to think about...

1) Is it an issue that the ASUS GTX 570 you picked above uses 3 expansion slots? That messes with PCI-e spacing on some motherboards.

2) Are you going to want to do SLI in the future? Because that PSU cannot handle two GTX 570's.

3) Have you considered saving cash and getting a single GTX 560Ti? They overclock better than anything else...AND a 650W PSU can handle two in SLI.

4) The XFX PSU I linked has 2x 6-pin connectors AND 2x 6+2-pin (8-pin) connectors. That allows the hookup of two GTX 560Ti's without using those 4-pin molex to 6-pin adapters.

Gigabyte GTX 560Ti: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Does anyone really think this Gigabyte won't cool well enough? Really, I'm curious why anyone needs the Asus DCII/MSI Twin Frozr III's when their cases have good cooling.



dalauder - Thanks for your thoughts. I certainly wouldn't consider doing SLI with the ASUS DCII, it's obviously a beast of a card, taking up 3 slots. For a single GPU setup I don't foresee it's size being a problem. In regards to going with the 560ti and perhaps getting two for SLI, I think I would be looking at over $400 for two cards, and would have the potential headaches of an SLI system including more heat, more space taken up inside the HAF 912 case I want to go with, additional power consumption and potential micro-stuttering issues. Additionally, I don't think a single 560ti is going to satisfy my desire for high-end gaming with games like BF3. I am leaning towards a single card setup, and want the most for my money. I am sure that a reference 570 card would be ok, but I think it's worth it to spend a little more for an above average card like the ASUS DCII - not only getting improved cooling but improved board engineering and higher quality components, too. I'd rather spend a bit more for quality when I'm dropping ~ $1200 on a new system, then be satisfied with average parts to save a few bucks.
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October 6, 2011 5:01:52 AM

Also, in regards to the next generation of GPUs, I will certainly be keeping my eye on what's announced and when it becomes available. Where can I find more information about the next GTX6xx series and AMD7xxx series cards?

I'm going to continue refining my parts list over the coming weeks until I'm prepared to make the purchases, which I think will be at the earliest end of November, latest, sometime in January.
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a b U Graphics card
October 6, 2011 5:39:03 AM

I was thinking $200 for graphics today and $120 in six months (after Radeon 7000 and NVidia's Kepler come out) for a second GTX 560Ti. That gives you 95% of the performance today (assuming you OC either card) while saving you $100 today and leaving you the option of an upgrade with much greater performance, should you chose it. Also, it appears that NVidia doesn't have the same issues with micro-stuttering: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-geforce-stut...
That's with the GTX 560 (non-Ti) and it's fine.

Like I said before, look into whether the 2GB frame buffers with the Radeons matter. It might not, but it's worth looking into.

Have you played the BF3 beta? I have no issues playing on Ultra on all settings with a GTX 470 at 1680x1050. Now you'll be using 31% more pixels at 1920x1200, but I don't think BF3 will be your limiting game.

Hold up? You're dropping $1200 on your system? Then I'd expect you can do better than a single GTX 570--especially with Black Friday coming up between now and your purchase. Even if you built it this week...

CPU: $220 i5-2500K

Cooler: $30 Buyer's Choice

Mobo: $150 Z68 Gigabyte

RAM: $50 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1600CL9 or better

PSU: $80 Corsair TX750 @ Tiger Direct

HDD: $60 Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB

SSD: $105 Crucial M4 64GB listed by OP

Case: $60 Buyer's Choice

DVD: $20

TOTAL: $775

That leaves $425 for graphics...unless that includes Windows. Anyhow...if you start picking up parts on sale now (case, PSU, HDD, DVD), you might end up saving yourself $80 or so you can put towards graphics. The same goes for the other parts, except that you'll want to buy those over a week or two instead of months in advance. If you wait until Black Friday to build though...you should be able to get a GTX 570 for near $200--at least that's the kind of price drop GTX 470's saw last year that caused me to buy one.
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a b U Graphics card
October 6, 2011 5:44:53 AM

tisue001 said:
Also, in regards to the next generation of GPUs, I will certainly be keeping my eye on what's announced and when it becomes available. Where can I find more information about the next GTX6xx series and AMD7xxx series cards?

I'm going to continue refining my parts list over the coming weeks until I'm prepared to make the purchases, which I think will be at the earliest end of November, latest, sometime in January.
If you can, you always want to buy parts around November when they have Black Friday sales. Keep an eye on slickdeals.net and the Newegg and Tigerdirect email lists.

What I've heard most recently puts both GeForce 600 and Radeon 7000 series in Q1 2012. I don't know if you want to wait for that as newer parts are always on the horizon. If you do wait for that, you may as well wait for Intel's Ivy Bridge in Q1 2012 and AMD's Trinity in Q1 2012 as all of these are sure to drop CPU & GPU prices. Of course, half of these upcoming techs will miss their deadlines--so it's pretty tough to plan for that stuff unless it's only a week away (like Bulldozer?).
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October 6, 2011 1:56:50 PM

Quote:
That leaves $425 for graphics...unless that includes Windows.


Yes, unfortunately I am also budgeting for the OS... so knock the $425 down to $325. Otherwise, you're spot on with your parts list.

That's a very good point to plan on purchasing during Black Friday; I am certainly going to keep this in mind now.

I won't be able to start buying parts until I secure a job. Without divulging my entire life story: I've been living in Korea for the last year teaching English, and am returning to the States beginning of November, at which point I hope to continue working at the architecture firm I interned at prior to coming to Korea. So, if that goes through I'll have a steady salary, and be able to build this computer. If it falls through, however, I think I'll have to keep making due with my Dell laptop...

In regards to your inquiry about the BF3 beta- yes I have been playing it a little, but it only seems playable if I set everything to LOW and drop the resolution from 1920x1080 down to 1600x900. Then I can get about 25-30 fps average... But not playing at the native resolution looks pretty crappy.


What you're proposing with buying the 560ti now (or rather when I plan to build, perhaps on Black Friday) and then adding a second card after the new generations come out is an interesting one... I did look over that chart with the 560 in SLI... Seems like it doesn't suffer from micro-stuttering as bad as others, but what about power consumption/electric bill, heat, etc.

You think that two 560ti's in SLI will outperform the ASUS DCII 570? Seems like a risk to buy one now, and then bank on the price dropping enough in the near future to make it worth it..
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a c 595 U Graphics card
October 6, 2011 7:15:38 PM

People always get caught up in the the electric bill costs of one card versus another. The reality is that, with heavy gaming (4 hours/day, 5 days/week) even a GTX 580 is only going to cost you about 3 Euro ($4-$5) more per month than a single 6850. Cut back on a single McDonald's Happy Meal, and that ought to cover the difference.
http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-580-review/7
http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-6850-6870-cross...
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a b U Graphics card
October 6, 2011 10:59:15 PM

Well look at the GTX 460 1GB to guess where GTX 560 Ti prices will go. It launched at $200 and is now $120. The GTX 560 Ti will do the same over the next year. And two GTX 560 Ti's will handily outperform a GTX 580--don't even worry about the GTX 570. The question is whether a single GTX 560Ti gets it done for you. If it doesn't drop in price a bunch and you end up needing to get by with a single one for a year, would you be okay with that? You'll have to make that decision.

Also, I apologize for sounding grim but...you should probably move back to Korea and teach English. I'm in Structural Engineering and Architecture is subject to the same rules--if nothing is being built, there aren't any jobs. That's why I moved to Guam--it's the only place in the U.S. building stuff (Military build up to move out of Okinawa). I sat around with an engineering degree for two years (class of 2008) before I found my first real job (okay, I was a Bag Boy at a grocery store too). I suppose you could always join the protests if you don't find a job.

Anyhow...good luck to you. Nice website linked from your profile, btw.
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