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Airport screening - digital damage

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Anonymous
May 1, 2005 4:53:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Hi,

Got a question yesterday concerning airport screening and potential
loss of digital data (or, damage to camera electronics) while passing
through airport security.

Specifically, while passing through the personal screening gate (not
the moving conveyor belt screen) with a digital camera. I'm not sure if
this is allowed but with some small cameras and some plastic bodies
maybe it could happen.

Also, would it be dependent on the level of screening intensity used by
specific machine(s) at various airports?

TIA,

Conrad


--
Conrad
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 4:53:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <Conrad.1ocsxm@no-mx.Newsgroup.Gateway>,
Conrad <Conrad.1ocsxm@no-mx.Newsgroup.Gateway> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Got a question yesterday concerning airport screening and potential
> loss of digital data (or, damage to camera electronics) while passing
> through airport security.
>
> Specifically, while passing through the personal screening gate (not
> the moving conveyor belt screen) with a digital camera. I'm not sure if
> this is allowed but with some small cameras and some plastic bodies
> maybe it could happen.
>
> Also, would it be dependent on the level of screening intensity used by
> specific machine(s) at various airports?

Its a moot point, but I doubt any digital data on a camera's memory card
or other storage media could be damaged by airport scanners. Its a moot
point because anything that could trigger a walk-tru scanner has to be
passed through the x-ray machine anyway.
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 4:53:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Conrad wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Got a question yesterday concerning airport screening and potential
> loss of digital data (or, damage to camera electronics) while passing
> through airport security.
>
> Specifically, while passing through the personal screening gate (not
> the moving conveyor belt screen) with a digital camera. I'm not sure if
> this is allowed but with some small cameras and some plastic bodies
> maybe it could happen.
>
> Also, would it be dependent on the level of screening intensity used by
> specific machine(s) at various airports?
>
> TIA,
>
> Conrad
>
>
None of the machines used to screen passengers, or their carryon bags
will cause any problem for your camera, or flash cards. Very fast film,
or x-ray film should be protected, and hand screened.
The jury is still out on the machines that screen checked bags, but I
have heard NO documented cases of any damage to any equipment from them,
so far. However, I would recommend you keep anything you want to have
with you at the end of your trip, in your carry-on baggage as checked
baggage often takes 'unplanned excursions'.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Related resources
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 10:21:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Xrays that are used in airport scanners are also called ionizing rays and
affect only living beings and films.I don't think that any digital camera or
memory card, including the data has to fear anything of it.That's another
advantage of digital to film.

--
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
major in electrical engineering, freelance electrician
FH von Iraklion-Kreta, freiberuflicher Elektriker
dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr
Ï "Shawn Hearn" <srhi@comcast.net> Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
news:srhi-521AA6.10400701052005@news.giganews.com...
> In article <Conrad.1ocsxm@no-mx.Newsgroup.Gateway>,
> Conrad <Conrad.1ocsxm@no-mx.Newsgroup.Gateway> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Got a question yesterday concerning airport screening and potential
> > loss of digital data (or, damage to camera electronics) while passing
> > through airport security.
> >
> > Specifically, while passing through the personal screening gate (not
> > the moving conveyor belt screen) with a digital camera. I'm not sure if
> > this is allowed but with some small cameras and some plastic bodies
> > maybe it could happen.
> >
> > Also, would it be dependent on the level of screening intensity used by
> > specific machine(s) at various airports?
>
> Its a moot point, but I doubt any digital data on a camera's memory card
> or other storage media could be damaged by airport scanners. Its a moot
> point because anything that could trigger a walk-tru scanner has to be
> passed through the x-ray machine anyway.
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 10:39:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sun, 01 May 2005 10:41:52 -0500, Ron Hunter wrote:
> Conrad wrote:
>>
>> Got a question yesterday concerning airport screening and potential
>> loss of digital data (or, damage to camera electronics) while passing
>> through airport security.
>>
>> Specifically, while passing through the personal screening gate (not
>> the moving conveyor belt screen) with a digital camera. I'm not sure if
>> this is allowed but with some small cameras and some plastic bodies
>> maybe it could happen.
>>
>> Also, would it be dependent on the level of screening intensity used by
>> specific machine(s) at various airports?
>>
> None of the machines used to screen passengers, or their carryon bags
> will cause any problem for your camera, or flash cards. Very fast film,
> or x-ray film should be protected, and hand screened.
> The jury is still out on the machines that screen checked bags, but I
> have heard NO documented cases of any damage to any equipment from them,
> so far.

> However, I would recommend you keep anything you want to have
> with you at the end of your trip, in your carry-on baggage as checked
> baggage often takes 'unplanned excursions'.

And, with the multi-million dollar baggage scanners now in place,
the luggage looters don't have to break into random bags.
They know _exactly_ which ones to break into.
Truly a labor saving device.
sigh....
May 1, 2005 11:47:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

The big magnets in the conveyor belt motor can damage microdrives and
laptop disk drives. On return trips, this is usually where all the
pictures live, not on flash cards.
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 11:47:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"james" <fishbowl@conservatory.com> wrote in message
news:0nade.8900$_K.5471@fed1read03...
> The big magnets in the conveyor belt motor can damage microdrives and
> laptop disk drives. On return trips, this is usually where all the
> pictures live, not on flash cards.

Pure hogwash.
These magnets are neither strong enough nor close enough to do damage to
hard drives.
May 1, 2005 11:48:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <slrnd7a8ir.10ud.bit-bucket@shell.config.com>,
Allodoxaphobia <NOSPAM_bit-bucket@config.com> wrote:

>And, with the multi-million dollar baggage scanners now in place,
>the luggage looters don't have to break into random bags.
>They know _exactly_ which ones to break into.
>Truly a labor saving device.

Can you point to a documented case of the type of theft you imply, which
did not lead to either a criminal conviction, an insurance settlement,
or both?
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 11:48:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

james wrote:
> In article <slrnd7a8ir.10ud.bit-bucket@shell.config.com>,
> Allodoxaphobia <NOSPAM_bit-bucket@config.com> wrote:
>
>
>>And, with the multi-million dollar baggage scanners now in place,
>>the luggage looters don't have to break into random bags.
>>They know _exactly_ which ones to break into.
>>Truly a labor saving device.
>
>
> Can you point to a documented case of the type of theft you imply, which
> did not lead to either a criminal conviction, an insurance settlement,
> or both?
>
>
All you need to do is read some of the travelers postings. Sometimes
whole bags disappear forever. It seems to me it would be fairly easy to
prevent this type of theft, but I really don't think anyone in the
airline industry cares.
They seem to see it as an employee benefit....


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 11:48:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:sebde.7870$cZ6.5348@fe02.lga...
> james wrote:
>> In article <slrnd7a8ir.10ud.bit-bucket@shell.config.com>,
>> Allodoxaphobia <NOSPAM_bit-bucket@config.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>And, with the multi-million dollar baggage scanners now in place,
>>>the luggage looters don't have to break into random bags. They know
>>>_exactly_ which ones to break into.
>>>Truly a labor saving device.
>>
>>
>> Can you point to a documented case of the type of theft you imply, which
>> did not lead to either a criminal conviction, an insurance settlement,
>> or both?
>>
>>
> All you need to do is read some of the travelers postings. Sometimes
> whole bags disappear forever. It seems to me it would be fairly easy to
> prevent this type of theft, but I really don't think anyone in the airline
> industry cares.
> They seem to see it as an employee benefit....

What I find most amazing is how few checks there are when you pick up your
luggage.
In most airports, there is absolutely NOTHING preventing a person from
walking away with ANY suitcase they choose...since there is rarelly any
verification when people grab bags off of the baggage claim belt.

This has always amazed/alarmed me, and continues to be why I'll always carry
my photo gear.
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 12:18:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Mark² wrote:
> "james" <fishbowl@conservatory.com> wrote in message
> news:0nade.8900$_K.5471@fed1read03...
>
>>The big magnets in the conveyor belt motor can damage microdrives and
>>laptop disk drives. On return trips, this is usually where all the
>>pictures live, not on flash cards.
>
>
> Pure hogwash.
> These magnets are neither strong enough nor close enough to do damage to
> hard drives.
>
>
Imagine the feedback if everyone who got on an airplane had his iPod
erased! It's not true for the same reason I know Iran doesn't have nukes.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 12:22:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Mark² wrote:
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:sebde.7870$cZ6.5348@fe02.lga...
>
>>james wrote:
>>
>>>In article <slrnd7a8ir.10ud.bit-bucket@shell.config.com>,
>>>Allodoxaphobia <NOSPAM_bit-bucket@config.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>And, with the multi-million dollar baggage scanners now in place,
>>>>the luggage looters don't have to break into random bags. They know
>>>>_exactly_ which ones to break into.
>>>>Truly a labor saving device.
>>>
>>>
>>>Can you point to a documented case of the type of theft you imply, which
>>>did not lead to either a criminal conviction, an insurance settlement,
>>>or both?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>All you need to do is read some of the travelers postings. Sometimes
>>whole bags disappear forever. It seems to me it would be fairly easy to
>>prevent this type of theft, but I really don't think anyone in the airline
>>industry cares.
>>They seem to see it as an employee benefit....
>
>
> What I find most amazing is how few checks there are when you pick up your
> luggage.
> In most airports, there is absolutely NOTHING preventing a person from
> walking away with ANY suitcase they choose...since there is rarelly any
> verification when people grab bags off of the baggage claim belt.
>
> This has always amazed/alarmed me, and continues to be why I'll always carry
> my photo gear.
>
>
That varies GREATLY from airport to airport. Some, like DFW, do NO
checking, and others like Houston Hobby, almost stripsearch you... They
check every bag against every baggage check tag on your ticket.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 12:22:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:chfde.7982$cZ6.5734@fe02.lga...
> Mark² wrote:
>> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>> news:sebde.7870$cZ6.5348@fe02.lga...
>>
>>>james wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <slrnd7a8ir.10ud.bit-bucket@shell.config.com>,
>>>>Allodoxaphobia <NOSPAM_bit-bucket@config.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>And, with the multi-million dollar baggage scanners now in place,
>>>>>the luggage looters don't have to break into random bags. They know
>>>>>_exactly_ which ones to break into.
>>>>>Truly a labor saving device.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Can you point to a documented case of the type of theft you imply, which
>>>>did not lead to either a criminal conviction, an insurance settlement,
>>>>or both?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>All you need to do is read some of the travelers postings. Sometimes
>>>whole bags disappear forever. It seems to me it would be fairly easy to
>>>prevent this type of theft, but I really don't think anyone in the
>>>airline industry cares.
>>>They seem to see it as an employee benefit....
>>
>>
>> What I find most amazing is how few checks there are when you pick up
>> your luggage.
>> In most airports, there is absolutely NOTHING preventing a person from
>> walking away with ANY suitcase they choose...since there is rarelly any
>> verification when people grab bags off of the baggage claim belt.
>>
>> This has always amazed/alarmed me, and continues to be why I'll always
>> carry my photo gear.
> That varies GREATLY from airport to airport. Some, like DFW, do NO
> checking, and others like Houston Hobby, almost stripsearch you... They
> check every bag against every baggage check tag on your ticket.

I've traveled to about 23 countries, and have only had my baggage tags
checked a few times...and NEVER in the last 6 years or so.
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 1:03:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <Conrad.1ocsxm@no-mx.Newsgroup.Gateway>,
Conrad <Conrad.1ocsxm@no-mx.Newsgroup.Gateway> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Got a question yesterday concerning airport screening and potential
> loss of digital data (or, damage to camera electronics) while passing
> through airport security.
>
> Specifically, while passing through the personal screening gate (not
> the moving conveyor belt screen) with a digital camera. I'm not sure if
> this is allowed but with some small cameras and some plastic bodies
> maybe it could happen.
>
> Also, would it be dependent on the level of screening intensity used by
> specific machine(s) at various airports?
>
> TIA,
>
> Conrad

The walk-through metal detector uses a low power alternating
electromagnetic field that's harmless to everything. It's tuned to
induce currents in only large metal objects. You can hold small memory
cards in your hand as you walk through without setting off the detector.

The carry-on scanner uses low-power X-rays that should be harmless. The
exact risk depends on the model being used and how many times your items
are re-scanned. Don't use if if you've filled a card with photos of
Bigfoot riding the Loch Ness monster. At that point you've burned
through so much good luck that you're screwed. (Watch out for falling
satellites too!)

Some check-in baggage scanners use invasive scanning beams that do
damage film and electronic media. Airports usually have warning signs
if they use them. Don't risk it. Your media will be erased if the
scanning beam hits it.

Memory cards can be put in the bucket for manual inspection too.
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 1:05:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote in message
news:p 9bde.353$tp.191@fed1read04...
>
> "james" <fishbowl@conservatory.com> wrote in message
> news:0nade.8900$_K.5471@fed1read03...
>> The big magnets in the conveyor belt motor can damage microdrives and
>> laptop disk drives. On return trips, this is usually where all the
>> pictures live, not on flash cards.
>
> Pure hogwash.
> These magnets are neither strong enough nor close enough to do damage to
> hard drives.
>
I've had laptops xrayed well over 1,000 times. NEVER once was there a
problem.

Urban myth.
May 2, 2005 1:06:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <sebde.7870$cZ6.5348@fe02.lga>,
Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> wrote:

>All you need to do is read some of the travelers postings.

So "everybody knows" it's going on.

Documentation? Something credible?
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 1:06:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

james wrote:
> In article <sebde.7870$cZ6.5348@fe02.lga>,
> Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> wrote:
>
>
>>All you need to do is read some of the travelers postings.
>
>
> So "everybody knows" it's going on.
>
> Documentation? Something credible?
Let's just say my wife used to be a baggage handler, and leave it at that.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
May 2, 2005 1:11:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <Wwbde.23761$716.4883@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
Tom Scales <tomtoo@softhome.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>"Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote in message
>news:p 9bde.353$tp.191@fed1read04...
>>
>> "james" <fishbowl@conservatory.com> wrote in message
>> news:0nade.8900$_K.5471@fed1read03...
>>> The big magnets in the conveyor belt motor can damage microdrives and
>>> laptop disk drives. On return trips, this is usually where all the
>>> pictures live, not on flash cards.
>>
>> Pure hogwash.
>> These magnets are neither strong enough nor close enough to do damage to
>> hard drives.
>>
>I've had laptops xrayed well over 1,000 times. NEVER once was there a
>problem.

I have a laptop that I use for work, which is very frequently in a lab
environment with lots of nitrates.

Occassionally, three times so far, I've been taken aside and questioned
about my laptop, what I do for a living, where I live, where I'm
travelling from, where I'm travelling to, where did I get my computer,
etc.

Evidently they do a spectrograph by swabbing the outside of the device,
and I guess any detectable level of nitrates stinks like a bomb to them.

The problem has been, my explanation doesn't make them any less curious.
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 1:11:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

james wrote:
> In article <Wwbde.23761$716.4883@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
> Tom Scales <tomtoo@softhome.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote in message
>>news:p 9bde.353$tp.191@fed1read04...
>>
>>>"james" <fishbowl@conservatory.com> wrote in message
>>>news:0nade.8900$_K.5471@fed1read03...
>>>
>>>>The big magnets in the conveyor belt motor can damage microdrives and
>>>>laptop disk drives. On return trips, this is usually where all the
>>>>pictures live, not on flash cards.
>>>
>>>Pure hogwash.
>>>These magnets are neither strong enough nor close enough to do damage to
>>>hard drives.
>>>
>>
>>I've had laptops xrayed well over 1,000 times. NEVER once was there a
>>problem.
>
>
> I have a laptop that I use for work, which is very frequently in a lab
> environment with lots of nitrates.
>
> Occassionally, three times so far, I've been taken aside and questioned
> about my laptop, what I do for a living, where I live, where I'm
> travelling from, where I'm travelling to, where did I get my computer,
> etc.
>
> Evidently they do a spectrograph by swabbing the outside of the device,
> and I guess any detectable level of nitrates stinks like a bomb to them.
>
> The problem has been, my explanation doesn't make them any less curious.
>
>
But aren't you glad they DO check?
It may seem like a PITA, but imagine how much better it is than flying
into a tall building at 575mph!


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 2:42:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sun, 01 May 2005 21:06:50 GMT, fishbowl@conservatory.com (james)
wrote:

>In article <sebde.7870$cZ6.5348@fe02.lga>,
>Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> wrote:
>
>>All you need to do is read some of the travelers postings.
>
>So "everybody knows" it's going on.
>
>Documentation? Something credible?

Here Laddie...

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/6196497.htm

WASHINGTON - When John Latta flew to Reagan National Airport from
Miami last month, he discovered that a $1,000 pair of binoculars was
missing from his checked luggage.

"What can I do?" he asked an airline agent who took a report. Her
answer, Latta said, was: "Nothing. Zero."

Latta's complaint is one of more than 6,700 that travelers have lodged
in the six months since the federal government began advising
passengers to leave their checked luggage unlocked for inspection.

and here

http://www.ksdk.com/news/investigations_article.aspx?st...

Mary Ellen and Terry Gould watched their luggage like hawks after Mary
Ellen's mom got ripped off. Mary Ellen explained, "The bag was there,
but everything on the inside was stolen."


On the issue of film:

Note you should never leave film in any checked bags these days,
because the strength of the X-rays can completely destroy the film.
The linked article has some fascinating 'before and after' examples of
film damaged by these new machines.

http://www.thetravelinsider.info/roadwarriorcontent/sea...

\
*****************************************************

"It is a good thing to read books, and need not be a
bad thing to write them, but in any case, it is a
pious thing to collect them."

Fredrick Locker-Lampson
(1821-1895)
May 2, 2005 4:18:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <pema719o4i1054k24io4rumuiba8p951il@4ax.com>,
John A. Stovall <johnastovall@earthlink.net> wrote:

>"What can I do?" he asked an airline agent who took a report. Her
>answer, Latta said, was: "Nothing. Zero."

I doubt very much that the person in charge of airport security made
that statement. "Nothing, Zero?" And what did they say to the police?
The victim did notify the police of the robbery, did he not? What does
the police report say? If the police report says "nothing zero", I
will eat my hat.
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 4:18:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

james wrote:
> In article <pema719o4i1054k24io4rumuiba8p951il@4ax.com>,
> John A. Stovall <johnastovall@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>>"What can I do?" he asked an airline agent who took a report. Her
>>answer, Latta said, was: "Nothing. Zero."
>
>
> I doubt very much that the person in charge of airport security made
> that statement. "Nothing, Zero?" And what did they say to the police?
> The victim did notify the police of the robbery, did he not? What does
> the police report say? If the police report says "nothing zero", I
> will eat my hat.

Start eating. The airlines have federally mandated liability limits on
lost, or damaged luggage, and included items. It doesn't even begin to
replace a simple P&S camera. They will cheerfully take your report,
and file it. I promise it will NEVER be investigated. Your best bet is
to complain to the airline's customer service department, and then write
letters of the CEO, and anyone else whose address you can find.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 4:26:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Mon, 02 May 2005 00:18:28 GMT, fishbowl@conservatory.com (james)
wrote:

>In article <pema719o4i1054k24io4rumuiba8p951il@4ax.com>,
>John A. Stovall <johnastovall@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>"What can I do?" he asked an airline agent who took a report. Her
>>answer, Latta said, was: "Nothing. Zero."
>
>I doubt very much that the person in charge of airport security made
>that statement. "Nothing, Zero?" And what did they say to the police?
>The victim did notify the police of the robbery, did he not? What does
>the police report say? If the police report says "nothing zero", I
>will eat my hat.

You seem to be side stepping the issue that things are stolen for
checked luggage.


********************************************************

"...bray a fool in a morter with wheat,
yet shall not his folly be beaten out of him;.."

"The Marriage of Heaven and Hell"
William Blake
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 5:16:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Mark² wrote:
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:chfde.7982$cZ6.5734@fe02.lga...
>
>>Mark² wrote:
>>
>>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>news:sebde.7870$cZ6.5348@fe02.lga...
>>>
>>>
>>>>james wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article <slrnd7a8ir.10ud.bit-bucket@shell.config.com>,
>>>>>Allodoxaphobia <NOSPAM_bit-bucket@config.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>And, with the multi-million dollar baggage scanners now in place,
>>>>>>the luggage looters don't have to break into random bags. They know
>>>>>>_exactly_ which ones to break into.
>>>>>>Truly a labor saving device.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Can you point to a documented case of the type of theft you imply, which
>>>>>did not lead to either a criminal conviction, an insurance settlement,
>>>>>or both?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>All you need to do is read some of the travelers postings. Sometimes
>>>>whole bags disappear forever. It seems to me it would be fairly easy to
>>>>prevent this type of theft, but I really don't think anyone in the
>>>>airline industry cares.
>>>>They seem to see it as an employee benefit....
>>>
>>>
>>>What I find most amazing is how few checks there are when you pick up
>>>your luggage.
>>>In most airports, there is absolutely NOTHING preventing a person from
>>>walking away with ANY suitcase they choose...since there is rarelly any
>>>verification when people grab bags off of the baggage claim belt.
>>>
>>>This has always amazed/alarmed me, and continues to be why I'll always
>>>carry my photo gear.
>>
>>That varies GREATLY from airport to airport. Some, like DFW, do NO
>>checking, and others like Houston Hobby, almost stripsearch you... They
>>check every bag against every baggage check tag on your ticket.
>
>
> I've traveled to about 23 countries, and have only had my baggage tags
> checked a few times...and NEVER in the last 6 years or so.
>
>
It's not common, at least not in the US, but I have flown to a couple of
other airports that at least pretend to look at baggage and claim tags.
I guess the expense of checking is exceeded by the expense of dealing
with stolen bags.
Best plan for the traveler is to proceed directly, and promptly, to the
baggage claim area so that you can watch your bags come out of the
opening, and grab them first.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 5:16:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:D Bjde.27543$Ow2.13549@fe06.lga...
> Mark² wrote:
>> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>> news:chfde.7982$cZ6.5734@fe02.lga...
>>
>>>Mark² wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:sebde.7870$cZ6.5348@fe02.lga...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>james wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>In article <slrnd7a8ir.10ud.bit-bucket@shell.config.com>,
>>>>>>Allodoxaphobia <NOSPAM_bit-bucket@config.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And, with the multi-million dollar baggage scanners now in place,
>>>>>>>the luggage looters don't have to break into random bags. They know
>>>>>>>_exactly_ which ones to break into.
>>>>>>>Truly a labor saving device.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Can you point to a documented case of the type of theft you imply,
>>>>>>which
>>>>>>did not lead to either a criminal conviction, an insurance settlement,
>>>>>>or both?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>All you need to do is read some of the travelers postings. Sometimes
>>>>>whole bags disappear forever. It seems to me it would be fairly easy
>>>>>to prevent this type of theft, but I really don't think anyone in the
>>>>>airline industry cares.
>>>>>They seem to see it as an employee benefit....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>What I find most amazing is how few checks there are when you pick up
>>>>your luggage.
>>>>In most airports, there is absolutely NOTHING preventing a person from
>>>>walking away with ANY suitcase they choose...since there is rarelly any
>>>>verification when people grab bags off of the baggage claim belt.
>>>>
>>>>This has always amazed/alarmed me, and continues to be why I'll always
>>>>carry my photo gear.
>>>
>>>That varies GREATLY from airport to airport. Some, like DFW, do NO
>>>checking, and others like Houston Hobby, almost stripsearch you... They
>>>check every bag against every baggage check tag on your ticket.
>>
>>
>> I've traveled to about 23 countries, and have only had my baggage tags
>> checked a few times...and NEVER in the last 6 years or so.
> It's not common, at least not in the US, but I have flown to a couple of
> other airports that at least pretend to look at baggage and claim tags. I
> guess the expense of checking is exceeded by the expense of dealing with
> stolen bags.
> Best plan for the traveler is to proceed directly, and promptly, to the
> baggage claim area so that you can watch your bags come out of the
> opening, and grab them first.

Which is exactly what I do...unless my flight gets delayed, or I get bumped
to another flight.
Many times this has happened, and to my amazement, my bags are just sitting
out on one side of the room--completely uncontrolled and unguarded, even
though I've had flights where my bags arrive a full day before I do.
It is really easy pickings for thieves.
Amazing and alarming that this is so often standard practice--especially
here in the US where security is supposedly tight regarding bags without
owners, etc.
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 6:57:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

fishbowl@conservatory.com (james) wrote:


>
> Can you point to a documented case of the type of theft you imply, which
> did not lead to either a criminal conviction, an insurance settlement,
> or both?
>
>
>

Hard to document until they're caught and no one's making any effort to
catch them.
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 6:57:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Bubbabob wrote:
> fishbowl@conservatory.com (james) wrote:
>
>
>
>>Can you point to a documented case of the type of theft you imply, which
>>did not lead to either a criminal conviction, an insurance settlement,
>>or both?
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Hard to document until they're caught and no one's making any effort to
> catch them.
Partly because the thieves don't mind intimidating, or even assaulting,
those who would turn them in....


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 6:57:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Conrad wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Got a question yesterday concerning airport screening and potential
> loss of digital data (or, damage to camera electronics) while passing
> through airport security.
>
> Specifically, while passing through the personal screening gate (not
> the moving conveyor belt screen) with a digital camera. I'm not sure if
> this is allowed but with some small cameras and some plastic bodies
> maybe it could happen.
>
> Also, would it be dependent on the level of screening intensity used by
> specific machine(s) at various airports?
>
> TIA,
>
> Conrad
>
>

I've never had a problem with the scanning machine - but the airport
security people are a different matter.

One over zealous screener wanted to swipe the front an rear elements of
my lenses for explosives - including a ridiculously expensive video
lens. This is after swiping the barrel of each lens!

I told him that if he touched any of my glass with that filthy cloth I
was going to break off his fingers and use them to shove the cloth up
his ***. He relented.

When I travel it's often with quite a bit of gear - and I'm forced to
supervise the manual search of the bags before they are checked. It can
take hours if there is a line. So now I just make sure my underwear and
socks are liberally sprinkled around the equipment. It's all clean, but
they don't know that. Fastest searches you ever saw.


--

J

www.urbanvoyeur.com
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 6:57:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Mark² wrote:
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:D Bjde.27543$Ow2.13549@fe06.lga...
>
>>Mark² wrote:
>>
>>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>news:chfde.7982$cZ6.5734@fe02.lga...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Mark² wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:sebde.7870$cZ6.5348@fe02.lga...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>james wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In article <slrnd7a8ir.10ud.bit-bucket@shell.config.com>,
>>>>>>>Allodoxaphobia <NOSPAM_bit-bucket@config.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>And, with the multi-million dollar baggage scanners now in place,
>>>>>>>>the luggage looters don't have to break into random bags. They know
>>>>>>>>_exactly_ which ones to break into.
>>>>>>>>Truly a labor saving device.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Can you point to a documented case of the type of theft you imply,
>>>>>>>which
>>>>>>>did not lead to either a criminal conviction, an insurance settlement,
>>>>>>>or both?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>All you need to do is read some of the travelers postings. Sometimes
>>>>>>whole bags disappear forever. It seems to me it would be fairly easy
>>>>>>to prevent this type of theft, but I really don't think anyone in the
>>>>>>airline industry cares.
>>>>>>They seem to see it as an employee benefit....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>What I find most amazing is how few checks there are when you pick up
>>>>>your luggage.
>>>>>In most airports, there is absolutely NOTHING preventing a person from
>>>>>walking away with ANY suitcase they choose...since there is rarelly any
>>>>>verification when people grab bags off of the baggage claim belt.
>>>>>
>>>>>This has always amazed/alarmed me, and continues to be why I'll always
>>>>>carry my photo gear.
>>>>
>>>>That varies GREATLY from airport to airport. Some, like DFW, do NO
>>>>checking, and others like Houston Hobby, almost stripsearch you... They
>>>>check every bag against every baggage check tag on your ticket.
>>>
>>>
>>>I've traveled to about 23 countries, and have only had my baggage tags
>>>checked a few times...and NEVER in the last 6 years or so.
>>
>>It's not common, at least not in the US, but I have flown to a couple of
>>other airports that at least pretend to look at baggage and claim tags. I
>>guess the expense of checking is exceeded by the expense of dealing with
>>stolen bags.
>>Best plan for the traveler is to proceed directly, and promptly, to the
>>baggage claim area so that you can watch your bags come out of the
>>opening, and grab them first.
>
>
> Which is exactly what I do...unless my flight gets delayed, or I get bumped
> to another flight.
> Many times this has happened, and to my amazement, my bags are just sitting
> out on one side of the room--completely uncontrolled and unguarded, even
> though I've had flights where my bags arrive a full day before I do.
> It is really easy pickings for thieves.
> Amazing and alarming that this is so often standard practice--especially
> here in the US where security is supposedly tight regarding bags without
> owners, etc.
>
>
Hummm. Change airlines. I have never found my bags unguarded under
those circumstances. Not that it happens often, but I fly standby, so
it has happened.
It's a real PAIN when the bags are in a different terminal, and one must
walk miles to get them....


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 7:00:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Ron Hunter wrote:

> But aren't you glad they DO check?

Not really, given that the "checks" perform no useful function.

> It may seem like a PITA, but imagine how much better it is than
flying
> into a tall building at 575mph!

This is prevented by a locked cockpit door, not every passenger bending
over at the gate for the Anal Probe.

www.google.com: "security theatre"

Even the government knows airport security is a joke:

http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/OIG_05-16_Mar0...

Heck, they can't even build an "operations centre" properly:

http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/OIG_05-18_Mar0...

Another report on baggage thefts:

http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/OIG_05-17_Mar0...

Note, these reports (and the rest of them at DHS) have been carefully
screened to prevent embaressin^H^H^H^H^H^H^H excuse me, sacred US
National Security from being compromised.

Ha ha ha, the joke is on you, American Citizen. Is the working theory
that if you sing the part that goes 'Land of the Free' enough you'll
believe it to be true?
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 10:06:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

> Best plan for the traveler is to proceed directly, and promptly, to the
> baggage claim area so that you can watch your bags come out of the
> opening, and grab them first.

Try explaining that to your wife/girlfriend/significant other when they have
to make stops at every bathroom and souvenir stand between the gate
and the baggage claim area.
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 10:06:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Steven Wandy" <Swandy@si.rr.com> wrote in message
news:x_tde.12532$n93.7910@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> > Best plan for the traveler is to proceed directly, and promptly, to
the
> > baggage claim area so that you can watch your bags come out of the
> > opening, and grab them first.
>
> Try explaining that to your wife/girlfriend/significant other when
they have
> to make stops at every bathroom and souvenir stand between the gate
> and the baggage claim area.

Not me, I stand and wait for my bags unless I had some emergency need to
get to a bathroom quickly, which luckily has never happened to me, but
could happen to anyone, male or female. And no souvenir stands in
baggage claim areas that I've ever seen in any airports I've ever been
to.

Cathy
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 10:06:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Steven Wandy wrote:
>>Best plan for the traveler is to proceed directly, and promptly, to the
>>baggage claim area so that you can watch your bags come out of the
>>opening, and grab them first.
>
>
> Try explaining that to your wife/girlfriend/significant other when they have
> to make stops at every bathroom and souvenir stand between the gate
> and the baggage claim area.
>
>
I can't help you with that problem, but the first time your bags AREN'T
there, you will have a solution to the problem....


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 10:06:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Cathy wrote:
> "Steven Wandy" <Swandy@si.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:x_tde.12532$n93.7910@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>
>>>Best plan for the traveler is to proceed directly, and promptly, to
>
> the
>
>>>baggage claim area so that you can watch your bags come out of the
>>>opening, and grab them first.
>>
>>Try explaining that to your wife/girlfriend/significant other when
>
> they have
>
>>to make stops at every bathroom and souvenir stand between the gate
>>and the baggage claim area.
>
>
> Not me, I stand and wait for my bags unless I had some emergency need to
> get to a bathroom quickly, which luckily has never happened to me, but
> could happen to anyone, male or female. And no souvenir stands in
> baggage claim areas that I've ever seen in any airports I've ever been
> to.
>
> Cathy
>
No, but LOTS of them between the gates and baggage claims, everywhere I
have been. Of course if you fly on the 'red eye' flights, it's not a
problem.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 10:06:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:iFvde.31325$Jg7.2522@fe03.lga...
> Cathy wrote:
> > "Steven Wandy" <Swandy@si.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:x_tde.12532$n93.7910@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> >
> >>>Best plan for the traveler is to proceed directly, and promptly, to
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>baggage claim area so that you can watch your bags come out of the
> >>>opening, and grab them first.
> >>
> >>Try explaining that to your wife/girlfriend/significant other when
> >
> > they have
> >
> >>to make stops at every bathroom and souvenir stand between the gate
> >>and the baggage claim area.
> >
> >
> > Not me, I stand and wait for my bags unless I had some emergency
need to
> > get to a bathroom quickly, which luckily has never happened to me,
but
> > could happen to anyone, male or female. And no souvenir stands in
> > baggage claim areas that I've ever seen in any airports I've ever
been
> > to.
> >
> > Cathy
> >
> No, but LOTS of them between the gates and baggage claims, everywhere
I
> have been. Of course if you fly on the 'red eye' flights, it's not a
> problem.

I don't remember seeing any souvenir stands between the gates and the
baggage claims. Are you talking about the area where your bags come on
the belt from the plane to the carousel? I've mainly been at airports in
Florida and at Toronto airport and UK airports, and I don't move from
the carousel till I get my suitcase off the carousel. Then I get a
luggage cart, put my bag on it and exit to the Customs area. How would
anybody have time to look at souvenirs? I might look at souvenirs when I
am departing for places and nothing else to do, but not when I come
back. I am too tired by then :) 

Cathy
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 10:06:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Cathy wrote:
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:iFvde.31325$Jg7.2522@fe03.lga...
>
>>Cathy wrote:
>>
>>>"Steven Wandy" <Swandy@si.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>news:x_tde.12532$n93.7910@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Best plan for the traveler is to proceed directly, and promptly, to
>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>baggage claim area so that you can watch your bags come out of the
>>>>>opening, and grab them first.
>>>>
>>>>Try explaining that to your wife/girlfriend/significant other when
>>>
>>>they have
>>>
>>>
>>>>to make stops at every bathroom and souvenir stand between the gate
>>>>and the baggage claim area.
>>>
>>>
>>>Not me, I stand and wait for my bags unless I had some emergency
>
> need to
>
>>>get to a bathroom quickly, which luckily has never happened to me,
>
> but
>
>>>could happen to anyone, male or female. And no souvenir stands in
>>>baggage claim areas that I've ever seen in any airports I've ever
>
> been
>
>>>to.
>>>
>>>Cathy
>>>
>>
>>No, but LOTS of them between the gates and baggage claims, everywhere
>
> I
>
>>have been. Of course if you fly on the 'red eye' flights, it's not a
>>problem.
>
>
> I don't remember seeing any souvenir stands between the gates and the
> baggage claims. Are you talking about the area where your bags come on
> the belt from the plane to the carousel? I've mainly been at airports in
> Florida and at Toronto airport and UK airports, and I don't move from
> the carousel till I get my suitcase off the carousel. Then I get a
> luggage cart, put my bag on it and exit to the Customs area. How would
> anybody have time to look at souvenirs? I might look at souvenirs when I
> am departing for places and nothing else to do, but not when I come
> back. I am too tired by then :) 
>
> Cathy
>
Many times the gates are a LONG way from the baggage claim areas. There
are often many such stores between the gate and the baggage claim areas.
Even at DFW Airport, there are often a few gates between where you get
off the airplane and the baggage claim, and it is one of the airports
with the shortest distance between the gates and baggage claim areas.
Of course, some Hawaiian airports have the bags unloaded from the plane,
and you pick them up from the baggage cart when you deplane... But the
last time I saw that was in 1979...


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 10:06:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Lwwde.8354$cZ6.5995@fe02.lga...
> Cathy wrote:
> > "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> > news:iFvde.31325$Jg7.2522@fe03.lga...
> >
> >>Cathy wrote:
> >>
> >>>"Steven Wandy" <Swandy@si.rr.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:x_tde.12532$n93.7910@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>Best plan for the traveler is to proceed directly, and promptly,
to
> >>>
> >>>the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>baggage claim area so that you can watch your bags come out of
the
> >>>>>opening, and grab them first.
> >>>>
> >>>>Try explaining that to your wife/girlfriend/significant other when
> >>>
> >>>they have
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>to make stops at every bathroom and souvenir stand between the
gate
> >>>>and the baggage claim area.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Not me, I stand and wait for my bags unless I had some emergency
> >
> > need to
> >
> >>>get to a bathroom quickly, which luckily has never happened to me,
> >
> > but
> >
> >>>could happen to anyone, male or female. And no souvenir stands in
> >>>baggage claim areas that I've ever seen in any airports I've ever
> >
> > been
> >
> >>>to.
> >>>
> >>>Cathy
> >>>
> >>
> >>No, but LOTS of them between the gates and baggage claims,
everywhere
> >
> > I
> >
> >>have been. Of course if you fly on the 'red eye' flights, it's not a
> >>problem.
> >
> >
> > I don't remember seeing any souvenir stands between the gates and
the
> > baggage claims. Are you talking about the area where your bags come
on
> > the belt from the plane to the carousel? I've mainly been at
airports in
> > Florida and at Toronto airport and UK airports, and I don't move
from
> > the carousel till I get my suitcase off the carousel. Then I get a
> > luggage cart, put my bag on it and exit to the Customs area. How
would
> > anybody have time to look at souvenirs? I might look at souvenirs
when I
> > am departing for places and nothing else to do, but not when I come
> > back. I am too tired by then :) 
> >
> > Cathy
> >
> Many times the gates are a LONG way from the baggage claim areas.
There
> are often many such stores between the gate and the baggage claim
areas.
> Even at DFW Airport, there are often a few gates between where you
get
> off the airplane and the baggage claim, and it is one of the airports
> with the shortest distance between the gates and baggage claim areas.
> Of course, some Hawaiian airports have the bags unloaded from the
plane,
> and you pick them up from the baggage cart when you deplane... But
the
> last time I saw that was in 1979...

I really can't remember noticing that at any of the airports I've been
at. When you get off the plane, you have to get your bags first, then go
through the Customs area, then you exit after Customs and then you are
in the main part of the airport terminal, but until you get there, its
mainly only getting your baggage and going through Customs. That is a
restricted area for passengers and Customs only. When I went to Scotland
two years ago to Edinburgh. Its not as big as Glasgow airport. After
getting off the plane, I picked up my bag from the carousel, then got in
a long line for screening, passports, etc. then exited that area, and
met my friends. No souvenir shops till I got out the baggage, screening
area I am sure of that. I think we must be talking about different areas
in
airports.

Cathy
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 12:17:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

james <fishbowl@conservatory.com> wrote:
>
> In article <slrnd7a8ir.10ud.bit-bucket@shell.config.com>,
> Allodoxaphobia <NOSPAM_bit-bucket@config.com> wrote:
>
>>And, with the multi-million dollar baggage scanners now in place,
>>the luggage looters don't have to break into random bags.
>>They know _exactly_ which ones to break into.
>>Truly a labor saving device.
>
> Can you point to a documented case of the type of theft you imply, which
> did not lead to either a criminal conviction, an insurance settlement,
> or both?

If it didn't lead to an arrest, it probably won't make the news.
However, there are a lot of complaints on traveller message boards,
and the ones that *do* make the news don't exactly inspire confidence
in airport screeners:

http://www.nbc6.net/ikeseamans/2294031/detail.html
http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Costume-drama-ends-...
http://www.sundaytimes.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,...

--
Zed Pobre <zed@resonant.org> a.k.a. Zed Pobre <zed@debian.org>
PGP key and fingerprint available on finger; encrypted mail welcomed.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 12:34:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Cathy wrote:
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:Lwwde.8354$cZ6.5995@fe02.lga...
>
>>Cathy wrote:
>>
>>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>news:iFvde.31325$Jg7.2522@fe03.lga...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Cathy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Steven Wandy" <Swandy@si.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:x_tde.12532$n93.7910@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Best plan for the traveler is to proceed directly, and promptly,
>
> to
>
>>>>>the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>baggage claim area so that you can watch your bags come out of
>
> the
>
>>>>>>>opening, and grab them first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Try explaining that to your wife/girlfriend/significant other when
>>>>>
>>>>>they have
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>to make stops at every bathroom and souvenir stand between the
>
> gate
>
>>>>>>and the baggage claim area.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Not me, I stand and wait for my bags unless I had some emergency
>>>
>>>need to
>>>
>>>
>>>>>get to a bathroom quickly, which luckily has never happened to me,
>>>
>>>but
>>>
>>>
>>>>>could happen to anyone, male or female. And no souvenir stands in
>>>>>baggage claim areas that I've ever seen in any airports I've ever
>>>
>>>been
>>>
>>>
>>>>>to.
>>>>>
>>>>>Cathy
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>No, but LOTS of them between the gates and baggage claims,
>
> everywhere
>
>>>I
>>>
>>>
>>>>have been. Of course if you fly on the 'red eye' flights, it's not a
>>>>problem.
>>>
>>>
>>>I don't remember seeing any souvenir stands between the gates and
>
> the
>
>>>baggage claims. Are you talking about the area where your bags come
>
> on
>
>>>the belt from the plane to the carousel? I've mainly been at
>
> airports in
>
>>>Florida and at Toronto airport and UK airports, and I don't move
>
> from
>
>>>the carousel till I get my suitcase off the carousel. Then I get a
>>>luggage cart, put my bag on it and exit to the Customs area. How
>
> would
>
>>>anybody have time to look at souvenirs? I might look at souvenirs
>
> when I
>
>>>am departing for places and nothing else to do, but not when I come
>>>back. I am too tired by then :) 
>>>
>>>Cathy
>>>
>>
>>Many times the gates are a LONG way from the baggage claim areas.
>
> There
>
>>are often many such stores between the gate and the baggage claim
>
> areas.
>
>> Even at DFW Airport, there are often a few gates between where you
>
> get
>
>>off the airplane and the baggage claim, and it is one of the airports
>>with the shortest distance between the gates and baggage claim areas.
>>Of course, some Hawaiian airports have the bags unloaded from the
>
> plane,
>
>>and you pick them up from the baggage cart when you deplane... But
>
> the
>
>>last time I saw that was in 1979...
>
>
> I really can't remember noticing that at any of the airports I've been
> at. When you get off the plane, you have to get your bags first, then go
> through the Customs area, then you exit after Customs and then you are
> in the main part of the airport terminal, but until you get there, its
> mainly only getting your baggage and going through Customs. That is a
> restricted area for passengers and Customs only. When I went to Scotland
> two years ago to Edinburgh. Its not as big as Glasgow airport. After
> getting off the plane, I picked up my bag from the carousel, then got in
> a long line for screening, passports, etc. then exited that area, and
> met my friends. No souvenir shops till I got out the baggage, screening
> area I am sure of that. I think we must be talking about different areas
> in
> airports.
>
> Cathy
>
There's your answer. You have been flying only on international
flights. Security is quite different from domestic flights. Fly from
Toronto to Vancouver, and see what the difference is. BTW, you might
not want to go back....


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 12:37:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

eawckyegcy@yahoo.com wrote:
> Ron Hunter wrote:
>
>
>>But aren't you glad they DO check?
>
>
> Not really, given that the "checks" perform no useful function.
>
>
>>It may seem like a PITA, but imagine how much better it is than
>
> flying
>
>>into a tall building at 575mph!
>
>
> This is prevented by a locked cockpit door, not every passenger bending
> over at the gate for the Anal Probe.
>
> www.google.com: "security theatre"
>
> Even the government knows airport security is a joke:
>
> http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/OIG_05-16_Mar0...
>
> Heck, they can't even build an "operations centre" properly:
>
> http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/OIG_05-18_Mar0...
>
> Another report on baggage thefts:
>
> http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/OIG_05-17_Mar0...
>
> Note, these reports (and the rest of them at DHS) have been carefully
> screened to prevent embaressin^H^H^H^H^H^H^H excuse me, sacred US
> National Security from being compromised.
>
> Ha ha ha, the joke is on you, American Citizen. Is the working theory
> that if you sing the part that goes 'Land of the Free' enough you'll
> believe it to be true?
>
You know, I have never had any problem going through airport security.
It's much the same as going into any security area. I do miss being
able to meet friends and relatives at the gate, rather than at baggage
claim, though. Somehow it doesn't seem to infringe on what I consider
basic freedoms. Maybe you need to spend some time in a country that
really isn't at all free to get some alternative experience with which
to compare.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 1:26:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:UCvde.31323$Jg7.23983@fe03.lga...
> Mark² wrote:
>> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>> news:D Bjde.27543$Ow2.13549@fe06.lga...
>>
>>>Mark² wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:chfde.7982$cZ6.5734@fe02.lga...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Mark² wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:sebde.7870$cZ6.5348@fe02.lga...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>james wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>In article <slrnd7a8ir.10ud.bit-bucket@shell.config.com>,
>>>>>>>>Allodoxaphobia <NOSPAM_bit-bucket@config.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>And, with the multi-million dollar baggage scanners now in place,
>>>>>>>>>the luggage looters don't have to break into random bags. They
>>>>>>>>>know _exactly_ which ones to break into.
>>>>>>>>>Truly a labor saving device.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Can you point to a documented case of the type of theft you imply,
>>>>>>>>which
>>>>>>>>did not lead to either a criminal conviction, an insurance
>>>>>>>>settlement,
>>>>>>>>or both?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>All you need to do is read some of the travelers postings. Sometimes
>>>>>>>whole bags disappear forever. It seems to me it would be fairly easy
>>>>>>>to prevent this type of theft, but I really don't think anyone in the
>>>>>>>airline industry cares.
>>>>>>>They seem to see it as an employee benefit....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What I find most amazing is how few checks there are when you pick up
>>>>>>your luggage.
>>>>>>In most airports, there is absolutely NOTHING preventing a person from
>>>>>>walking away with ANY suitcase they choose...since there is rarelly
>>>>>>any verification when people grab bags off of the baggage claim belt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This has always amazed/alarmed me, and continues to be why I'll always
>>>>>>carry my photo gear.
>>>>>
>>>>>That varies GREATLY from airport to airport. Some, like DFW, do NO
>>>>>checking, and others like Houston Hobby, almost stripsearch you...
>>>>>They check every bag against every baggage check tag on your ticket.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I've traveled to about 23 countries, and have only had my baggage tags
>>>>checked a few times...and NEVER in the last 6 years or so.
>>>
>>>It's not common, at least not in the US, but I have flown to a couple of
>>>other airports that at least pretend to look at baggage and claim tags. I
>>>guess the expense of checking is exceeded by the expense of dealing with
>>>stolen bags.
>>>Best plan for the traveler is to proceed directly, and promptly, to the
>>>baggage claim area so that you can watch your bags come out of the
>>>opening, and grab them first.
>>
>>
>> Which is exactly what I do...unless my flight gets delayed, or I get
>> bumped to another flight.
>> Many times this has happened, and to my amazement, my bags are just
>> sitting out on one side of the room--completely uncontrolled and
>> unguarded, even though I've had flights where my bags arrive a full day
>> before I do.
>> It is really easy pickings for thieves.
>> Amazing and alarming that this is so often standard practice--especially
>> here in the US where security is supposedly tight regarding bags without
>> owners, etc.
> Hummm. Change airlines. I have never found my bags unguarded under those
> circumstances. Not that it happens often, but I fly standby, so it has
> happened.
> It's a real PAIN when the bags are in a different terminal, and one must
> walk miles to get them....

It's happened twice with United, twice with Alaskan Air (and both times I
had two 44 Magnums IN MY SUITCASE...since you can't carry them
on...AND...they don't let you lock the suitcase!!...only the cun case within
the suitcase!!!), once with American, and more with others I can't recall.
This means two firearms were left un-guarded...two separate times.

Most recently, my bags WERE taken to a holding point at LAX via United from
Hawaii, but that was a two day bump-delay (my bags arrived a full two days
before I did...stand-by).
-Mark
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 1:29:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Cathy" <not@there.com> wrote in message
news:xoadnSceBPXmBevfRVn-qw@rogers.com...
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:Lwwde.8354$cZ6.5995@fe02.lga...
>> Cathy wrote:
>> > "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>> > news:iFvde.31325$Jg7.2522@fe03.lga...
>> >
>> >>Cathy wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>"Steven Wandy" <Swandy@si.rr.com> wrote in message
>> >>>news:x_tde.12532$n93.7910@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>>Best plan for the traveler is to proceed directly, and promptly,
> to
>> >>>
>> >>>the
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>>baggage claim area so that you can watch your bags come out of
> the
>> >>>>>opening, and grab them first.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Try explaining that to your wife/girlfriend/significant other when
>> >>>
>> >>>they have
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>to make stops at every bathroom and souvenir stand between the
> gate
>> >>>>and the baggage claim area.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Not me, I stand and wait for my bags unless I had some emergency
>> >
>> > need to
>> >
>> >>>get to a bathroom quickly, which luckily has never happened to me,
>> >
>> > but
>> >
>> >>>could happen to anyone, male or female. And no souvenir stands in
>> >>>baggage claim areas that I've ever seen in any airports I've ever
>> >
>> > been
>> >
>> >>>to.
>> >>>
>> >>>Cathy
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>No, but LOTS of them between the gates and baggage claims,
> everywhere
>> >
>> > I
>> >
>> >>have been. Of course if you fly on the 'red eye' flights, it's not a
>> >>problem.
>> >
>> >
>> > I don't remember seeing any souvenir stands between the gates and
> the
>> > baggage claims. Are you talking about the area where your bags come
> on
>> > the belt from the plane to the carousel? I've mainly been at
> airports in
>> > Florida and at Toronto airport and UK airports, and I don't move
> from
>> > the carousel till I get my suitcase off the carousel. Then I get a
>> > luggage cart, put my bag on it and exit to the Customs area. How
> would
>> > anybody have time to look at souvenirs? I might look at souvenirs
> when I
>> > am departing for places and nothing else to do, but not when I come
>> > back. I am too tired by then :) 
>> >
>> > Cathy
>> >
>> Many times the gates are a LONG way from the baggage claim areas.
> There
>> are often many such stores between the gate and the baggage claim
> areas.
>> Even at DFW Airport, there are often a few gates between where you
> get
>> off the airplane and the baggage claim, and it is one of the airports
>> with the shortest distance between the gates and baggage claim areas.
>> Of course, some Hawaiian airports have the bags unloaded from the
> plane,
>> and you pick them up from the baggage cart when you deplane... But
> the
>> last time I saw that was in 1979...
>
> I really can't remember noticing that at any of the airports I've been
> at. When you get off the plane, you have to get your bags first, then go
> through the Customs area, then you exit after Customs and then you are
> in the main part of the airport terminal, but until you get there, its
> mainly only getting your baggage and going through Customs.

In San Diego (the 6th largest city in the Country, for crying out loud!),
there is no such restriction.
ANYONE can walk into the baggage claim area.
After you exit planes, you have to walk to what is basically the front
entrance area of the airport before you even get to the baggage claim area.
On your way, you pass food...souvenirs...and etc.
-Mark
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 1:31:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote in message
news:k6Dde.534$tp.214@fed1read04...
>
> "Cathy" <not@there.com> wrote in message
> news:xoadnSceBPXmBevfRVn-qw@rogers.com...
>> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>> news:Lwwde.8354$cZ6.5995@fe02.lga...
>>> Cathy wrote:
>>> > "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>> > news:iFvde.31325$Jg7.2522@fe03.lga...
>>> >
>>> >>Cathy wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>>"Steven Wandy" <Swandy@si.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> >>>news:x_tde.12532$n93.7910@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>>Best plan for the traveler is to proceed directly, and promptly,
>> to
>>> >>>
>>> >>>the
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>>baggage claim area so that you can watch your bags come out of
>> the
>>> >>>>>opening, and grab them first.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>Try explaining that to your wife/girlfriend/significant other when
>>> >>>
>>> >>>they have
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>to make stops at every bathroom and souvenir stand between the
>> gate
>>> >>>>and the baggage claim area.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Not me, I stand and wait for my bags unless I had some emergency
>>> >
>>> > need to
>>> >
>>> >>>get to a bathroom quickly, which luckily has never happened to me,
>>> >
>>> > but
>>> >
>>> >>>could happen to anyone, male or female. And no souvenir stands in
>>> >>>baggage claim areas that I've ever seen in any airports I've ever
>>> >
>>> > been
>>> >
>>> >>>to.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Cathy
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>No, but LOTS of them between the gates and baggage claims,
>> everywhere
>>> >
>>> > I
>>> >
>>> >>have been. Of course if you fly on the 'red eye' flights, it's not a
>>> >>problem.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I don't remember seeing any souvenir stands between the gates and
>> the
>>> > baggage claims. Are you talking about the area where your bags come
>> on
>>> > the belt from the plane to the carousel? I've mainly been at
>> airports in
>>> > Florida and at Toronto airport and UK airports, and I don't move
>> from
>>> > the carousel till I get my suitcase off the carousel. Then I get a
>>> > luggage cart, put my bag on it and exit to the Customs area. How
>> would
>>> > anybody have time to look at souvenirs? I might look at souvenirs
>> when I
>>> > am departing for places and nothing else to do, but not when I come
>>> > back. I am too tired by then :) 
>>> >
>>> > Cathy
>>> >
>>> Many times the gates are a LONG way from the baggage claim areas.
>> There
>>> are often many such stores between the gate and the baggage claim
>> areas.
>>> Even at DFW Airport, there are often a few gates between where you
>> get
>>> off the airplane and the baggage claim, and it is one of the airports
>>> with the shortest distance between the gates and baggage claim areas.
>>> Of course, some Hawaiian airports have the bags unloaded from the
>> plane,
>>> and you pick them up from the baggage cart when you deplane... But
>> the
>>> last time I saw that was in 1979...
>>
>> I really can't remember noticing that at any of the airports I've been
>> at. When you get off the plane, you have to get your bags first, then go
>> through the Customs area, then you exit after Customs and then you are
>> in the main part of the airport terminal, but until you get there, its
>> mainly only getting your baggage and going through Customs.
>
> In San Diego (the 6th largest city in the Country, for crying out loud!),
> there is no such restriction.
> ANYONE can walk into the baggage claim area.
> After you exit planes, you have to walk to what is basically the front
> entrance area of the airport before you even get to the baggage claim
> area. On your way, you pass food...souvenirs...and etc.
> -Mark

Correction... I'm talking about domestic areas...NOT international.
:) 
Still... The vast majority of flights originating from the US stay in the
US.
This is a huge security black hole that thieves surely love

-Mark.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 1:35:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:RBAde.31488$c42.1818@fe07.lga...
> eawckyegcy@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Ron Hunter wrote:
>>
>>
>>>But aren't you glad they DO check?
>>
>>
>> Not really, given that the "checks" perform no useful function.
>>
>>
>>>It may seem like a PITA, but imagine how much better it is than
>>
>> flying
>>
>>>into a tall building at 575mph!
>>
>>
>> This is prevented by a locked cockpit door, not every passenger bending
>> over at the gate for the Anal Probe.
>>
>> www.google.com: "security theatre"
>>
>> Even the government knows airport security is a joke:
>>
>> http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/OIG_05-16_Mar0...
>>
>> Heck, they can't even build an "operations centre" properly:
>>
>> http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/OIG_05-18_Mar0...
>>
>> Another report on baggage thefts:
>>
>> http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/OIG_05-17_Mar0...
>>
>> Note, these reports (and the rest of them at DHS) have been carefully
>> screened to prevent embaressin^H^H^H^H^H^H^H excuse me, sacred US
>> National Security from being compromised.
>>
>> Ha ha ha, the joke is on you, American Citizen. Is the working theory
>> that if you sing the part that goes 'Land of the Free' enough you'll
>> believe it to be true?
>>
> You know, I have never had any problem going through airport security.
> It's much the same as going into any security area. I do miss being able
> to meet friends and relatives at the gate, rather than at baggage claim,
> though. Somehow it doesn't seem to infringe on what I consider basic
> freedoms. Maybe you need to spend some time in a country that really
> isn't at all free to get some alternative experience with which to
> compare.

I haven't seen this as a discussion about freedom, terrorism, etc.
I see this as a simple question of protection from THEFT.
Bags are totally vulnerable to theft, and it's really quite laughably
BAD...except that it's not very funny...
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 3:54:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:FyAde.31487$c42.6332@fe07.lga...
> Cathy wrote:
> > "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> > news:Lwwde.8354$cZ6.5995@fe02.lga...
> >
> >>Cathy wrote:
> >>
> >>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:iFvde.31325$Jg7.2522@fe03.lga...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Cathy wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>"Steven Wandy" <Swandy@si.rr.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:x_tde.12532$n93.7910@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>Best plan for the traveler is to proceed directly, and
promptly,
> >
> > to
> >
> >>>>>the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>baggage claim area so that you can watch your bags come out of
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>>>>>opening, and grab them first.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Try explaining that to your wife/girlfriend/significant other
when
> >>>>>
> >>>>>they have
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>to make stops at every bathroom and souvenir stand between the
> >
> > gate
> >
> >>>>>>and the baggage claim area.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Not me, I stand and wait for my bags unless I had some emergency
> >>>
> >>>need to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>get to a bathroom quickly, which luckily has never happened to
me,
> >>>
> >>>but
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>could happen to anyone, male or female. And no souvenir stands in
> >>>>>baggage claim areas that I've ever seen in any airports I've ever
> >>>
> >>>been
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>to.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Cathy
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>No, but LOTS of them between the gates and baggage claims,
> >
> > everywhere
> >
> >>>I
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>have been. Of course if you fly on the 'red eye' flights, it's not
a
> >>>>problem.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>I don't remember seeing any souvenir stands between the gates and
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>baggage claims. Are you talking about the area where your bags come
> >
> > on
> >
> >>>the belt from the plane to the carousel? I've mainly been at
> >
> > airports in
> >
> >>>Florida and at Toronto airport and UK airports, and I don't move
> >
> > from
> >
> >>>the carousel till I get my suitcase off the carousel. Then I get a
> >>>luggage cart, put my bag on it and exit to the Customs area. How
> >
> > would
> >
> >>>anybody have time to look at souvenirs? I might look at souvenirs
> >
> > when I
> >
> >>>am departing for places and nothing else to do, but not when I come
> >>>back. I am too tired by then :) 
> >>>
> >>>Cathy
> >>>
> >>
> >>Many times the gates are a LONG way from the baggage claim areas.
> >
> > There
> >
> >>are often many such stores between the gate and the baggage claim
> >
> > areas.
> >
> >> Even at DFW Airport, there are often a few gates between where you
> >
> > get
> >
> >>off the airplane and the baggage claim, and it is one of the
airports
> >>with the shortest distance between the gates and baggage claim
areas.
> >>Of course, some Hawaiian airports have the bags unloaded from the
> >
> > plane,
> >
> >>and you pick them up from the baggage cart when you deplane... But
> >
> > the
> >
> >>last time I saw that was in 1979...
> >
> >
> > I really can't remember noticing that at any of the airports I've
been
> > at. When you get off the plane, you have to get your bags first,
then go
> > through the Customs area, then you exit after Customs and then you
are
> > in the main part of the airport terminal, but until you get there,
its
> > mainly only getting your baggage and going through Customs. That is
a
> > restricted area for passengers and Customs only. When I went to
Scotland
> > two years ago to Edinburgh. Its not as big as Glasgow airport. After
> > getting off the plane, I picked up my bag from the carousel, then
got in
> > a long line for screening, passports, etc. then exited that area,
and
> > met my friends. No souvenir shops till I got out the baggage,
screening
> > area I am sure of that. I think we must be talking about different
areas
> > in
> > airports.
> >
> > Cathy
> >
> There's your answer. You have been flying only on international
> flights. Security is quite different from domestic flights. Fly from
> Toronto to Vancouver, and see what the difference is. BTW, you might
> not want to go back....

I thought we were talking about souvenir stands? :) 
Actually, at Toronto airport, they don't call flights from the US to
Canada International flights. They call them "Trans Border flights".
Flights arrive daily (in Toronto airport anyway) from New York, Chicago,
Dallas-Forth Worth, and other US cities. They are mostly business people
coming for the day or few days.US passengers are asked Primary questions
in one area of Customs area, and International flights in a different
area. The secondary examination area (baggage examination if referred
from Primary Customs officer) is the same for all flights. I have been
to Ottawa by plane though not for a while, but I don't think there are
any souvenir shops within the Customs or baggage area. I think its
Restricted too though I am not 100% positive. I would have to ask my son
who has flown a lot within Canada and the US. And yes, if I go to
Vancouver or Vicoria, I might not come back :)  My relatives who moved
there never came back, except to visit.

Cathy
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 6:09:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Cathy wrote:
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:FyAde.31487$c42.6332@fe07.lga...
>
>>Cathy wrote:
>>
>>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>news:Lwwde.8354$cZ6.5995@fe02.lga...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Cathy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:iFvde.31325$Jg7.2522@fe03.lga...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Cathy wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Steven Wandy" <Swandy@si.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:x_tde.12532$n93.7910@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Best plan for the traveler is to proceed directly, and
>
> promptly,
>
>>>to
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>baggage claim area so that you can watch your bags come out of
>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>opening, and grab them first.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Try explaining that to your wife/girlfriend/significant other
>
> when
>
>>>>>>>they have
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>to make stops at every bathroom and souvenir stand between the
>>>
>>>gate
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>and the baggage claim area.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Not me, I stand and wait for my bags unless I had some emergency
>>>>>
>>>>>need to
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>get to a bathroom quickly, which luckily has never happened to
>
> me,
>
>>>>>but
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>could happen to anyone, male or female. And no souvenir stands in
>>>>>>>baggage claim areas that I've ever seen in any airports I've ever
>>>>>
>>>>>been
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Cathy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No, but LOTS of them between the gates and baggage claims,
>>>
>>>everywhere
>>>
>>>
>>>>>I
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>have been. Of course if you fly on the 'red eye' flights, it's not
>
> a
>
>>>>>>problem.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't remember seeing any souvenir stands between the gates and
>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>baggage claims. Are you talking about the area where your bags come
>>>
>>>on
>>>
>>>
>>>>>the belt from the plane to the carousel? I've mainly been at
>>>
>>>airports in
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Florida and at Toronto airport and UK airports, and I don't move
>>>
>>>from
>>>
>>>
>>>>>the carousel till I get my suitcase off the carousel. Then I get a
>>>>>luggage cart, put my bag on it and exit to the Customs area. How
>>>
>>>would
>>>
>>>
>>>>>anybody have time to look at souvenirs? I might look at souvenirs
>>>
>>>when I
>>>
>>>
>>>>>am departing for places and nothing else to do, but not when I come
>>>>>back. I am too tired by then :) 
>>>>>
>>>>>Cathy
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Many times the gates are a LONG way from the baggage claim areas.
>>>
>>>There
>>>
>>>
>>>>are often many such stores between the gate and the baggage claim
>>>
>>>areas.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Even at DFW Airport, there are often a few gates between where you
>>>
>>>get
>>>
>>>
>>>>off the airplane and the baggage claim, and it is one of the
>
> airports
>
>>>>with the shortest distance between the gates and baggage claim
>
> areas.
>
>>>>Of course, some Hawaiian airports have the bags unloaded from the
>>>
>>>plane,
>>>
>>>
>>>>and you pick them up from the baggage cart when you deplane... But
>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>last time I saw that was in 1979...
>>>
>>>
>>>I really can't remember noticing that at any of the airports I've
>
> been
>
>>>at. When you get off the plane, you have to get your bags first,
>
> then go
>
>>>through the Customs area, then you exit after Customs and then you
>
> are
>
>>>in the main part of the airport terminal, but until you get there,
>
> its
>
>>>mainly only getting your baggage and going through Customs. That is
>
> a
>
>>>restricted area for passengers and Customs only. When I went to
>
> Scotland
>
>>>two years ago to Edinburgh. Its not as big as Glasgow airport. After
>>>getting off the plane, I picked up my bag from the carousel, then
>
> got in
>
>>>a long line for screening, passports, etc. then exited that area,
>
> and
>
>>>met my friends. No souvenir shops till I got out the baggage,
>
> screening
>
>>>area I am sure of that. I think we must be talking about different
>
> areas
>
>>>in
>>>airports.
>>>
>>>Cathy
>>>
>>
>>There's your answer. You have been flying only on international
>>flights. Security is quite different from domestic flights. Fly from
>>Toronto to Vancouver, and see what the difference is. BTW, you might
>>not want to go back....
>
>
> I thought we were talking about souvenir stands? :) 
> Actually, at Toronto airport, they don't call flights from the US to
> Canada International flights. They call them "Trans Border flights".
> Flights arrive daily (in Toronto airport anyway) from New York, Chicago,
> Dallas-Forth Worth, and other US cities. They are mostly business people
> coming for the day or few days.US passengers are asked Primary questions
> in one area of Customs area, and International flights in a different
> area. The secondary examination area (baggage examination if referred
> from Primary Customs officer) is the same for all flights. I have been
> to Ottawa by plane though not for a while, but I don't think there are
> any souvenir shops within the Customs or baggage area. I think its
> Restricted too though I am not 100% positive. I would have to ask my son
> who has flown a lot within Canada and the US. And yes, if I go to
> Vancouver or Vicoria, I might not come back :)  My relatives who moved
> there never came back, except to visit.
>
> Cathy
>
It's funny, but when I crossed into Canada on a ferry, the only question
I was asked was if I knew the Canadian position on handguns. No luggage
check, no check of the rented car papers... It was harder to get back
into the US, but only slightly. I was asked if I was a US Citizen, but
they did look at the underside of the car...
I was glad to get back into the US, not because Canada was not a
beautiful place, but because it was so much like the US, but just a
LITTLE different that the difference made me slightly uncomfortable.
Kind of like a strange noise in your car...


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 6:14:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Mark² wrote:
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:UCvde.31323$Jg7.23983@fe03.lga...
>
>>Mark² wrote:
>>
>>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>news:D Bjde.27543$Ow2.13549@fe06.lga...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Mark² wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:chfde.7982$cZ6.5734@fe02.lga...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Mark² wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:sebde.7870$cZ6.5348@fe02.lga...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>james wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>In article <slrnd7a8ir.10ud.bit-bucket@shell.config.com>,
>>>>>>>>>Allodoxaphobia <NOSPAM_bit-bucket@config.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>And, with the multi-million dollar baggage scanners now in place,
>>>>>>>>>>the luggage looters don't have to break into random bags. They
>>>>>>>>>>know _exactly_ which ones to break into.
>>>>>>>>>>Truly a labor saving device.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Can you point to a documented case of the type of theft you imply,
>>>>>>>>>which
>>>>>>>>>did not lead to either a criminal conviction, an insurance
>>>>>>>>>settlement,
>>>>>>>>>or both?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>All you need to do is read some of the travelers postings. Sometimes
>>>>>>>>whole bags disappear forever. It seems to me it would be fairly easy
>>>>>>>>to prevent this type of theft, but I really don't think anyone in the
>>>>>>>>airline industry cares.
>>>>>>>>They seem to see it as an employee benefit....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What I find most amazing is how few checks there are when you pick up
>>>>>>>your luggage.
>>>>>>>In most airports, there is absolutely NOTHING preventing a person from
>>>>>>>walking away with ANY suitcase they choose...since there is rarelly
>>>>>>>any verification when people grab bags off of the baggage claim belt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This has always amazed/alarmed me, and continues to be why I'll always
>>>>>>>carry my photo gear.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>That varies GREATLY from airport to airport. Some, like DFW, do NO
>>>>>>checking, and others like Houston Hobby, almost stripsearch you...
>>>>>>They check every bag against every baggage check tag on your ticket.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I've traveled to about 23 countries, and have only had my baggage tags
>>>>>checked a few times...and NEVER in the last 6 years or so.
>>>>
>>>>It's not common, at least not in the US, but I have flown to a couple of
>>>>other airports that at least pretend to look at baggage and claim tags. I
>>>>guess the expense of checking is exceeded by the expense of dealing with
>>>>stolen bags.
>>>>Best plan for the traveler is to proceed directly, and promptly, to the
>>>>baggage claim area so that you can watch your bags come out of the
>>>>opening, and grab them first.
>>>
>>>
>>>Which is exactly what I do...unless my flight gets delayed, or I get
>>>bumped to another flight.
>>>Many times this has happened, and to my amazement, my bags are just
>>>sitting out on one side of the room--completely uncontrolled and
>>>unguarded, even though I've had flights where my bags arrive a full day
>>>before I do.
>>>It is really easy pickings for thieves.
>>>Amazing and alarming that this is so often standard practice--especially
>>>here in the US where security is supposedly tight regarding bags without
>>>owners, etc.
>>
>>Hummm. Change airlines. I have never found my bags unguarded under those
>>circumstances. Not that it happens often, but I fly standby, so it has
>>happened.
>>It's a real PAIN when the bags are in a different terminal, and one must
>>walk miles to get them....
>
>
> It's happened twice with United, twice with Alaskan Air (and both times I
> had two 44 Magnums IN MY SUITCASE...since you can't carry them
> on...AND...they don't let you lock the suitcase!!...only the cun case within
> the suitcase!!!), once with American, and more with others I can't recall.
> This means two firearms were left un-guarded...two separate times.
>
> Most recently, my bags WERE taken to a holding point at LAX via United from
> Hawaii, but that was a two day bump-delay (my bags arrived a full two days
> before I did...stand-by).
> -Mark
>
>
If your bags were left unsecured when you flew on American, you should
have sent a letter complaining to the home office. That is definitely
NOT company policy.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 6:16:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Mark² wrote:
> "Cathy" <not@there.com> wrote in message
> news:xoadnSceBPXmBevfRVn-qw@rogers.com...
>
>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>news:Lwwde.8354$cZ6.5995@fe02.lga...
>>
>>>Cathy wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:iFvde.31325$Jg7.2522@fe03.lga...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Cathy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Steven Wandy" <Swandy@si.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:x_tde.12532$n93.7910@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Best plan for the traveler is to proceed directly, and promptly,
>>
>>to
>>
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>baggage claim area so that you can watch your bags come out of
>>
>>the
>>
>>>>>>>>opening, and grab them first.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Try explaining that to your wife/girlfriend/significant other when
>>>>>>
>>>>>>they have
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>to make stops at every bathroom and souvenir stand between the
>>
>>gate
>>
>>>>>>>and the baggage claim area.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Not me, I stand and wait for my bags unless I had some emergency
>>>>
>>>>need to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>get to a bathroom quickly, which luckily has never happened to me,
>>>>
>>>>but
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>could happen to anyone, male or female. And no souvenir stands in
>>>>>>baggage claim areas that I've ever seen in any airports I've ever
>>>>
>>>>been
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Cathy
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>No, but LOTS of them between the gates and baggage claims,
>>
>>everywhere
>>
>>>>I
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>have been. Of course if you fly on the 'red eye' flights, it's not a
>>>>>problem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I don't remember seeing any souvenir stands between the gates and
>>
>>the
>>
>>>>baggage claims. Are you talking about the area where your bags come
>>
>>on
>>
>>>>the belt from the plane to the carousel? I've mainly been at
>>
>>airports in
>>
>>>>Florida and at Toronto airport and UK airports, and I don't move
>>
>>from
>>
>>>>the carousel till I get my suitcase off the carousel. Then I get a
>>>>luggage cart, put my bag on it and exit to the Customs area. How
>>
>>would
>>
>>>>anybody have time to look at souvenirs? I might look at souvenirs
>>
>>when I
>>
>>>>am departing for places and nothing else to do, but not when I come
>>>>back. I am too tired by then :) 
>>>>
>>>>Cathy
>>>>
>>>
>>>Many times the gates are a LONG way from the baggage claim areas.
>>
>>There
>>
>>>are often many such stores between the gate and the baggage claim
>>
>>areas.
>>
>>> Even at DFW Airport, there are often a few gates between where you
>>
>>get
>>
>>>off the airplane and the baggage claim, and it is one of the airports
>>>with the shortest distance between the gates and baggage claim areas.
>>>Of course, some Hawaiian airports have the bags unloaded from the
>>
>>plane,
>>
>>>and you pick them up from the baggage cart when you deplane... But
>>
>>the
>>
>>>last time I saw that was in 1979...
>>
>>I really can't remember noticing that at any of the airports I've been
>>at. When you get off the plane, you have to get your bags first, then go
>>through the Customs area, then you exit after Customs and then you are
>>in the main part of the airport terminal, but until you get there, its
>>mainly only getting your baggage and going through Customs.
>
>
> In San Diego (the 6th largest city in the Country, for crying out loud!),
> there is no such restriction.
> ANYONE can walk into the baggage claim area.
> After you exit planes, you have to walk to what is basically the front
> entrance area of the airport before you even get to the baggage claim area.
> On your way, you pass food...souvenirs...and etc.
> -Mark
>
>
Same for places like Las Vegas, Houston Hobby, Seattle, Charlotte,
Boston, Chicago, L.A., San Francisco, etc. Many of these airports place
baggage claim VERY far from the gates, and always outside the 'secured
area'.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 8:17:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sun, 01 May 2005 20:20:57 -0500, in rec.photo.digital , Ron Hunter
<rphunter@charter.net> in <_ffde.7981$cZ6.2567@fe02.lga> wrote:

>james wrote:
>> In article <Wwbde.23761$716.4883@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
[snip]

>> I have a laptop that I use for work, which is very frequently in a lab
>> environment with lots of nitrates.
>>
>> Occassionally, three times so far, I've been taken aside and questioned
>> about my laptop, what I do for a living, where I live, where I'm
>> travelling from, where I'm travelling to, where did I get my computer,
>> etc.
>>
>> Evidently they do a spectrograph by swabbing the outside of the device,
>> and I guess any detectable level of nitrates stinks like a bomb to them.
>>
>> The problem has been, my explanation doesn't make them any less curious.
>>
>>
>But aren't you glad they DO check?
>It may seem like a PITA, but imagine how much better it is than flying
>into a tall building at 575mph!

I don't mind the checks that improve security, and checking for
nitrates seems like a sensible thing. I mind the checks that do
nothing, or even make it worse. Removing shoes is silly since what I
can do for shoes I can do elsewhere. Forbidding a two inch knife is
just silly since you can modify the metal on a luggage cart to make a
weapon. And why are 3 (or whatever the number is) books of matches
safe, but more dangerous? At least they do random rather than profiled
searches.


--
Matt Silberstein

All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 8:17:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Matt Silberstein wrote:
> On Sun, 01 May 2005 20:20:57 -0500, in rec.photo.digital , Ron Hunter
> <rphunter@charter.net> in <_ffde.7981$cZ6.2567@fe02.lga> wrote:
>
>
>>james wrote:
>>
>>>In article <Wwbde.23761$716.4883@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
>
> [snip]
>
>
>>>I have a laptop that I use for work, which is very frequently in a lab
>>>environment with lots of nitrates.
>>>
>>>Occassionally, three times so far, I've been taken aside and questioned
>>>about my laptop, what I do for a living, where I live, where I'm
>>>travelling from, where I'm travelling to, where did I get my computer,
>>>etc.
>>>
>>>Evidently they do a spectrograph by swabbing the outside of the device,
>>>and I guess any detectable level of nitrates stinks like a bomb to them.
>>>
>>>The problem has been, my explanation doesn't make them any less curious.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>But aren't you glad they DO check?
>>It may seem like a PITA, but imagine how much better it is than flying
>>into a tall building at 575mph!
>
>
> I don't mind the checks that improve security, and checking for
> nitrates seems like a sensible thing. I mind the checks that do
> nothing, or even make it worse. Removing shoes is silly since what I
> can do for shoes I can do elsewhere. Forbidding a two inch knife is
> just silly since you can modify the metal on a luggage cart to make a
> weapon. And why are 3 (or whatever the number is) books of matches
> safe, but more dangerous? At least they do random rather than profiled
> searches.
>
>
They SHOULD be doing profiled searches. This is like not checking for
bombs in the luggage because the person fits the description of the
hijackers. STUPID.
If ALL the 9/11 hijackers had been bald, blue-eyed, overweight, 60ish
men from Texas, I would EXPECT to be scrutinized. This is political
stupidity.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
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