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A pregnant girl asks a judge "why can't I make a decision?"

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Anonymous
May 2, 2005 1:13:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl...

Girl, 13, argues right to abortion

Judge asked to reverse decision by state guardian

By John Coté
Staff Writer
Posted April 30 2005

"Why can't I make my own decision?"

That was the blunt question to a judge from a pregnant 13-year-old
girl ensnared in a Palm Beach County court fight over whether she can
have an abortion.

"I don't know," Circuit Judge Ronald Alvarez replied
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 5:15:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <ce48eec0.0505012013.a8e9c3b@posting.google.com>, La N
<nilita@mailinator.com> wrote:

>
> http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl...
> 609.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines
>
> Girl, 13, argues right to abortion
>
> Judge asked to reverse decision by state guardian
>
> By John Coté
> Staff Writer
> Posted April 30 2005
>
> "Why can't I make my own decision?"
>
> That was the blunt question to a judge from a pregnant 13-year-old
> girl ensnared in a Palm Beach County court fight over whether she can
> have an abortion.
>
> "I don't know," Circuit Judge Ronald Alvarez replied

From the sound of it, this girl has more common sense than any of her
so-called "guardians." She seems pretty tough and determined to stick
up for herself. More power to her and I hope she maintains her right to
make her own decision in this matter.

Sean C
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 5:26:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

La N wrote:
> http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl...
>
> Girl, 13, argues right to abortion
>
> Judge asked to reverse decision by state guardian
>
> By John Coté
> Staff Writer
> Posted April 30 2005
>
> "Why can't I make my own decision?"
>
> That was the blunt question to a judge from a pregnant 13-year-old
> girl ensnared in a Palm Beach County court fight over whether she can
> have an abortion.
>
> "I don't know," Circuit Judge Ronald Alvarez replied

She probably already made it. If she was raped, then she should have
the right to make the decision, but being, most likely, somewhat
immature, she should make it with adult supervision.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
May 2, 2005 2:09:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Sean C" <redhawk@burnspammersalive.com> wrote in message
news:020520050115396699%redhawk@burnspammersalive.com...
> In article <ce48eec0.0505012013.a8e9c3b@posting.google.com>, La N
> <nilita@mailinator.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl...
>> 609.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines
>>
>> Girl, 13, argues right to abortion
>>
>> Judge asked to reverse decision by state guardian
>>
>> By John Coté
>> Staff Writer
>> Posted April 30 2005
>>
>> "Why can't I make my own decision?"
>>
>> That was the blunt question to a judge from a pregnant 13-year-old
>> girl ensnared in a Palm Beach County court fight over whether she can
>> have an abortion.
>>
>> "I don't know," Circuit Judge Ronald Alvarez replied
>
> From the sound of it, this girl has more common sense than any of her
> so-called "guardians." She seems pretty tough and determined to stick
> up for herself. More power to her and I hope she maintains her right to
> make her own decision in this matter.
>
> Sean C

I don;t.
Only sexual predators would think such as you think.
May 2, 2005 2:10:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:xKjde.27547$Ow2.2960@fe06.lga...
> La N wrote:
>> http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl...
>>
>> Girl, 13, argues right to abortion
>>
>> Judge asked to reverse decision by state guardian
>>
>> By John Coté
>> Staff Writer
>> Posted April 30 2005
>>
>> "Why can't I make my own decision?"
>>
>> That was the blunt question to a judge from a pregnant 13-year-old
>> girl ensnared in a Palm Beach County court fight over whether she can
>> have an abortion.
>>
>> "I don't know," Circuit Judge Ronald Alvarez replied
>
> She probably already made it. If she was raped,

If she was raped there should be a rape cahrge.

> then she should have the right to make the decision,

Why should she have the right to choose to keep a rape baby?

> but being, most likely, somewhat immature, she should make it with adult
> supervision.

Now, you are calling her immature.

> Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 2:54:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Sean C wrote:
> In article <ce48eec0.0505012013.a8e9c3b@posting.google.com>, La N
> <nilita@mailinator.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl...
> > 609.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines
> >
> > Girl, 13, argues right to abortion
> >
> > Judge asked to reverse decision by state guardian
> >
> > By John Coté
> > Staff Writer
> > Posted April 30 2005
> >
> > "Why can't I make my own decision?"
> >
> > That was the blunt question to a judge from a pregnant 13-year-old
> > girl ensnared in a Palm Beach County court fight over whether she
can
> > have an abortion.
> >
> > "I don't know," Circuit Judge Ronald Alvarez replied
>
> From the sound of it, this girl has more common sense than any of her
> so-called "guardians."

Of course she does. Her guardians are the state. These are the same
people that brought you the department of motor vehicles.

--S
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 4:19:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

La N wrote:
> http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl...
>
> Girl, 13, argues right to abortion

Does this have anything even close to do with digital photography?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 5:12:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

on 02 May 2005 in alt.atheism, Sneechres dropped trou, farted, whirled,
then shouted:

>
> Sean C wrote:
>> In article <ce48eec0.0505012013.a8e9c3b@posting.google.com>, La N
>> <nilita@mailinator.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
> http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl...
> 0,0,700
>> > 609.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines
>> >
>> > Girl, 13, argues right to abortion
>> >
>> > Judge asked to reverse decision by state guardian
>> >
>> > By John Coté
>> > Staff Writer
>> > Posted April 30 2005
>> >
>> > "Why can't I make my own decision?"
>> >
>> > That was the blunt question to a judge from a pregnant 13-year-old
>> > girl ensnared in a Palm Beach County court fight over whether she
> can
>> > have an abortion.
>> >
>> > "I don't know," Circuit Judge Ronald Alvarez replied
>>
>> From the sound of it, this girl has more common sense than any of her
>> so-called "guardians."
>
> Of course she does. Her guardians are the state. These are the same
> people that brought you the department of motor vehicles.
>
> --S
>
>

And George Dubya Bush.

--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department

Plonked by Jason Gastrich for all eternity...
______________

As you were, I was. As I am, you will be.
--- Hunter S. Thompson
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 7:08:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Johnny wrote:
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:xKjde.27547$Ow2.2960@fe06.lga...
>
>>La N wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl...
>>>
>>>Girl, 13, argues right to abortion
>>>
>>>Judge asked to reverse decision by state guardian
>>>
>>>By John Coté
>>>Staff Writer
>>>Posted April 30 2005
>>>
>>>"Why can't I make my own decision?"
>>>
>>>That was the blunt question to a judge from a pregnant 13-year-old
>>>girl ensnared in a Palm Beach County court fight over whether she can
>>>have an abortion.
>>>
>>>"I don't know," Circuit Judge Ronald Alvarez replied
>>
>>She probably already made it. If she was raped,
>
>
> If she was raped there should be a rape cahrge.
>
>

Maybe there was. I don't know the details.

>>then she should have the right to make the decision,
>
>
> Why should she have the right to choose to keep a rape baby?
>
>

Why shouldn't she? Do you think that the child is responsible for the
actions of its father? Should it be punished with death, JUST because
the father did something evil?


>>but being, most likely, somewhat immature, she should make it with adult
>>supervision.
>
>
> Now, you are calling her immature.
>
>
>>Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
>
>
>

I said 'most likely', and how many 13 year old girls do you know that
AREN'T immature? Would advocate allowing them to drive, drink, join the
military, marry, or vote? Why not? Oh, because you KNOW they are
usually immature. That's why we have PARENTS, so that they can assist
immature people in making correct choices. It is sad that they
sometimes fail miserably in this, but true. But she DOES need the
benefit of adult, experienced, advice.



--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 7:46:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

(nilita@mailinator.com (La N)):

>Girl, 13, argues right to abortion

This case is infuriating, considering that the judge doesn't even
have an idea why these people are in her courtroom. Florida
doesn't require guardian consent for abortions, so I don't know
why the DCS thinks they are exempt.


--
Jeremy Martin
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 8:10:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:kNvde.8344$cZ6.4069@fe02.lga...

snip
> I said 'most likely', and how many 13 year old girls do you know that
> AREN'T immature? Would advocate allowing them to drive, drink, join the
> military, marry, or vote? Why not? Oh, because you KNOW they are
> usually immature. That's why we have PARENTS, so that they can assist
> immature people in making correct choices. It is sad that they
> sometimes fail miserably in this, but true. But she DOES need the
> benefit of adult, experienced, advice.

Fine, then let a mature adult carry the baby for her and later give it up
for adoption.
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 8:10:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Robibnikoff wrote:
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:kNvde.8344$cZ6.4069@fe02.lga...
>
> snip
>
>>I said 'most likely', and how many 13 year old girls do you know that
>>AREN'T immature? Would advocate allowing them to drive, drink, join the
>>military, marry, or vote? Why not? Oh, because you KNOW they are
>>usually immature. That's why we have PARENTS, so that they can assist
>>immature people in making correct choices. It is sad that they
>>sometimes fail miserably in this, but true. But she DOES need the
>>benefit of adult, experienced, advice.
>
>
> Fine, then let a mature adult carry the baby for her and later give it up
> for adoption.

It may be that her best interests would involve NOT having the baby, but
WHY do you want to let a 13 year old make it alone? Does she need this
burden to carry alone? She should have the advice of a doctor, and
other adults so that she can make a good decision, for her. SHE is the
one that will have to live with it.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 8:13:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> writes:

>"Sean C" <redhawk@burnspammersalive.com> wrote in message
>news:020520050115396699%redhawk@burnspammersalive.com...
>> In article <ce48eec0.0505012013.a8e9c3b@posting.google.com>, La N
>> <nilita@mailinator.com> wrote:

>>> http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl...
>>> 609.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines

>>> Girl, 13, argues right to abortion

>>> Judge asked to reverse decision by state guardian

>>> By John Coté
>>> Staff Writer
>>> Posted April 30 2005

>>> "Why can't I make my own decision?"

>>> That was the blunt question to a judge from a pregnant 13-year-old
>>> girl ensnared in a Palm Beach County court fight over whether she can
>>> have an abortion.

>>> "I don't know," Circuit Judge Ronald Alvarez replied

>> From the sound of it, this girl has more common sense than any of her
>> so-called "guardians." She seems pretty tough and determined to stick
>> up for herself. More power to her and I hope she maintains her right to
>> make her own decision in this matter.

>I don;t. Only sexual predators would think such as you think.

Really? A judge who can't even figure out if she's empowered to make her own
decision, and you're siding with him? The nerve of her, wanting to make her
own choice! You're spitting blood, as usual, because she doesn't have to obey
a certified lunatic in South Carolina.

--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (soon to be TCI's 2005-06 Houston Aeros)
LAST GAME: Chicago 5, Houston 3 (April 26)
NEXT GAME: Date/opponent/site TBA in August 2005
May 2, 2005 8:55:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:kNvde.8344$cZ6.4069@fe02.lga...
> Johnny wrote:
>> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>> news:xKjde.27547$Ow2.2960@fe06.lga...
>>
>>>La N wrote:
>>>
>>>>http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl...
>>>>
>>>>Girl, 13, argues right to abortion
>>>>
>>>>Judge asked to reverse decision by state guardian
>>>>
>>>>By John Coté
>>>>Staff Writer
>>>>Posted April 30 2005
>>>>
>>>>"Why can't I make my own decision?"
>>>>
>>>>That was the blunt question to a judge from a pregnant 13-year-old
>>>>girl ensnared in a Palm Beach County court fight over whether she can
>>>>have an abortion.
>>>>
>>>>"I don't know," Circuit Judge Ronald Alvarez replied
>>>
>>>She probably already made it. If she was raped,
>>
>>
>> If she was raped there should be a rape cahrge.
>>
>>
>
> Maybe there was. I don't know the details.
>
>>>then she should have the right to make the decision,
>>
>>
>> Why should she have the right to choose to keep a rape baby?
>>
>
> Why shouldn't she?


I asked you why "SHOULD" she?

> Do you think that the child is responsible for the actions of its father?
> Should it be punished with death, JUST because the father did something
> evil?

Punished?
Who is punishing the child in that case?
You want a baby born into life whose father raped its mother?
Oh, please tell me how they would asnwer the questions of "mommy, daddy, how
did you meet?" etc.
You're a numbskull in this area, no doubt.

>>>but being, most likely, somewhat immature, she should make it with adult
>>>supervision.
>>
>>
>> Now, you are calling her immature.
>>
>>
>>>Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
>>
>>
>>
>
> I said 'most likely',

In your opinion.

> and how many 13 year old girls do you know that AREN'T immature?

None.
Any more questions?

> Would advocate allowing them to drive, drink, join the military, marry, or
> vote?

Are those relevant to the issue at hand?

> Why not?

15 for a driver's licenese is well below 18 or 21.
There are manuy laws which allow marriage well below 18.

> Oh, because you KNOW they are usually immature.

You forgot to wait on my answer?
See above.

> That's why we have PARENTS, so that they can assist immature people in
> making correct choices.

Parents did something different to create their children?
Getting into that undesirable position of being a hypocrite already?

> It is sad that they sometimes fail miserably in this, but true.

With aboriton on demand there are many failures.

> But she DOES need the benefit of adult, experienced, advice.

That entails killing the child and NOT exposing the father?

>
>
>
> --
> Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 10:15:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Joseph Meehan wrote:
> La N wrote:
>> http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl...
>>
>> Girl, 13, argues right to abortion
>
> Does this have anything even close to do with digital photography?

Sort of. Most of the fundie twits that post this kind of thing have pixels
for brains.
Even a high pixel count is still two dimensional.
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 10:18:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Johnny wrote:
>>> "Why can't I make my own decision?"
>>>
>>> That was the blunt question to a judge from a pregnant 13-year-old
>>> girl ensnared in a Palm Beach County court fight over whether she
>>> can have an abortion.
>>>
>>> "I don't know," Circuit Judge Ronald Alvarez replied
>>
>> From the sound of it, this girl has more common sense than any of her
>> so-called "guardians." She seems pretty tough and determined to stick
>> up for herself. More power to her and I hope she maintains her right
>> to make her own decision in this matter.
>>
>> Sean C
>
> I don;t.
> Only sexual predators would think such as you think.

I'd have to take your word for it Johnny. I work with a rape crisis group
and see the damage done. Frequently I get asked "Why?"
I have to admit I don't know why and I have never been able to understand
it.
But then I'm not a sexual predator and believe not understanding is a good
thing.

You seem to understand it.
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 11:12:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <jpqde.122790$f%4.45159@bignews1.bellsouth.net>, Johnny
<wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote:

> "Sean C" <redhawk@burnspammersalive.com> wrote in message

> > From the sound of it, this girl has more common sense than any of her
> > so-called "guardians." She seems pretty tough and determined to stick
> > up for herself. More power to her and I hope she maintains her right to
> > make her own decision in this matter.
> >
> > Sean C
>
> I don;t.
> Only sexual predators would think such as you think.

Only sexual predators think they have a right to force their will on a
girl. Poor guy, you clearly weren't raised on your mother's tit, but on
your father's cock.

Sean C
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 12:23:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Johnny wrote:
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:kNvde.8344$cZ6.4069@fe02.lga...
>
>>Johnny wrote:
>>
>>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>news:xKjde.27547$Ow2.2960@fe06.lga...
>>>
>>>
>>>>La N wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl...
>>>>>
>>>>>Girl, 13, argues right to abortion
>>>>>
>>>>>Judge asked to reverse decision by state guardian
>>>>>
>>>>>By John Coté
>>>>>Staff Writer
>>>>>Posted April 30 2005
>>>>>
>>>>>"Why can't I make my own decision?"
>>>>>
>>>>>That was the blunt question to a judge from a pregnant 13-year-old
>>>>>girl ensnared in a Palm Beach County court fight over whether she can
>>>>>have an abortion.
>>>>>
>>>>>"I don't know," Circuit Judge Ronald Alvarez replied
>>>>
>>>>She probably already made it. If she was raped,
>>>
>>>
>>>If she was raped there should be a rape cahrge.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Maybe there was. I don't know the details.
>>
>>
>>>>then she should have the right to make the decision,
>>>
>>>
>>>Why should she have the right to choose to keep a rape baby?
>>>
>>
>>Why shouldn't she?
>
>
>
> I asked you why "SHOULD" she?
>
>
>> Do you think that the child is responsible for the actions of its father?
>>Should it be punished with death, JUST because the father did something
>>evil?
>
>
> Punished?
> Who is punishing the child in that case?
> You want a baby born into life whose father raped its mother?
> Oh, please tell me how they would asnwer the questions of "mommy, daddy, how
> did you meet?" etc.
> You're a numbskull in this area, no doubt.
>
>
>>>>but being, most likely, somewhat immature, she should make it with adult
>>>>supervision.
>>>
>>>
>>>Now, you are calling her immature.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>I said 'most likely',
>
>
> In your opinion.
>
>
>>and how many 13 year old girls do you know that AREN'T immature?
>
>
> None.
> Any more questions?
>
Yes. IF you agree, then why did you jump on my for indicating that she
'most likely' wasn't mature? And then reiterate the same thing in THIS
message?

>
>>Would advocate allowing them to drive, drink, join the military, marry, or
>>vote?
>
>
> Are those relevant to the issue at hand?
>
>
Yes, certainly.


>> Why not?
>
>
> 15 for a driver's licenese is well below 18 or 21.
> There are manuy laws which allow marriage well below 18.
>
>
Yes, down to 14, WITH PARENTAL CONSENT.


>> Oh, because you KNOW they are usually immature.
>
>
> You forgot to wait on my answer?
> See above.
>
>
>> That's why we have PARENTS, so that they can assist immature people in
>>making correct choices.
>
>
> Parents did something different to create their children?
> Getting into that undesirable position of being a hypocrite already?
>
>

Now you lost me entirely. Are you implying that all parents have
children when they are immature? If so, I totally disagree. My father
was 45 and my mother 43 when I was born. So, I THINK they were mature
(BTW, they already 8 before me).

>> It is sad that they sometimes fail miserably in this, but true.
>
>
> With aboriton on demand there are many failures.
>
>
>> But she DOES need the benefit of adult, experienced, advice.
>
>
> That entails killing the child and NOT exposing the father?
>
>

Say what? How did the father enter the discussion? I thought you said
SHE and ONLY SHE should make the decision..
At least TRY to be somewhat consistent.


>>
>>
>>--
>>Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
>
>
>


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 4:38:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:xKjde.27547$Ow2.2960@fe06.lga...
> La N wrote:
> >
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl...
> >
> > Girl, 13, argues right to abortion
> >
> > Judge asked to reverse decision by state guardian
> >
> > By John Coté
> > Staff Writer
> > Posted April 30 2005
> >
> > "Why can't I make my own decision?"
> >
> > That was the blunt question to a judge from a pregnant 13-year-old
> > girl ensnared in a Palm Beach County court fight over whether she can
> > have an abortion.
> >
> > "I don't know," Circuit Judge Ronald Alvarez replied
>
> She probably already made it. If she was raped, then she should have
> the right to make the decision, but being, most likely, somewhat
> immature, she should make it with adult supervision.

She's the one inside whom the fetus is gestating. It is HER decision, and
hers alone. The judge is violating one of her most fundamental rights.

So much for the Republican claim that government should stay out of people's
private lives. Here we have government inserting itself into a helpless
girl's most private places. This sickens me to the very core. This is why
Republicans are unfit to govern: whenever they govern they TAKE AWAY OUR
RIGHTS.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 4:38:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Peacenik wrote:
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:xKjde.27547$Ow2.2960@fe06.lga...
>
>>La N wrote:
>>
> http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl...
>
>>>Girl, 13, argues right to abortion
>>>
>>>Judge asked to reverse decision by state guardian
>>>
>>>By John Coté
>>>Staff Writer
>>>Posted April 30 2005
>>>
>>>"Why can't I make my own decision?"
>>>
>>>That was the blunt question to a judge from a pregnant 13-year-old
>>>girl ensnared in a Palm Beach County court fight over whether she can
>>>have an abortion.
>>>
>>>"I don't know," Circuit Judge Ronald Alvarez replied
>>
>>She probably already made it. If she was raped, then she should have
>>the right to make the decision, but being, most likely, somewhat
>>immature, she should make it with adult supervision.
>
>
> She's the one inside whom the fetus is gestating. It is HER decision, and
> hers alone. The judge is violating one of her most fundamental rights.
>
> So much for the Republican claim that government should stay out of people's
> private lives. Here we have government inserting itself into a helpless
> girl's most private places. This sickens me to the very core. This is why
> Republicans are unfit to govern: whenever they govern they TAKE AWAY OUR
> RIGHTS.
>
>
You think like most liberals. It is ok with you to kill an innocent
baby, but terrible to kill a mass murderer. Strange ethical structure.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 4:38:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:wOvde.8345$cZ6.3091@fe02.lga...
> Peacenik wrote:
> > "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> > news:xKjde.27547$Ow2.2960@fe06.lga...
> >
> >>La N wrote:
> >>
> >
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl...
> >
> >>>Girl, 13, argues right to abortion
> >>>
> >>>Judge asked to reverse decision by state guardian
> >>>
> >>>By John Coté
> >>>Staff Writer
> >>>Posted April 30 2005
> >>>
> >>>"Why can't I make my own decision?"
> >>>
> >>>That was the blunt question to a judge from a pregnant 13-year-old
> >>>girl ensnared in a Palm Beach County court fight over whether she can
> >>>have an abortion.
> >>>
> >>>"I don't know," Circuit Judge Ronald Alvarez replied
> >>
> >>She probably already made it. If she was raped, then she should have
> >>the right to make the decision, but being, most likely, somewhat
> >>immature, she should make it with adult supervision.
> >
> >
> > She's the one inside whom the fetus is gestating. It is HER decision,
and
> > hers alone. The judge is violating one of her most fundamental rights.
> >
> > So much for the Republican claim that government should stay out of
people's
> > private lives. Here we have government inserting itself into a helpless
> > girl's most private places. This sickens me to the very core. This is
why
> > Republicans are unfit to govern: whenever they govern they TAKE AWAY OUR
> > RIGHTS.
> >
> >
> You think like most liberals. It is ok with you to kill an innocent
> baby, but terrible to kill a mass murderer.

Where did he made this statement?
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 4:38:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <wOvde.8345$cZ6.3091@fe02.lga>, Ron Hunter
<rphunter@charter.net> wrote:


> You think like most liberals. It is ok with you to kill an innocent
> baby, but terrible to kill a mass murderer. Strange ethical structure.

A fetus is not a baby, no matter how much you wish to define it as
such. Opposition to abortion has *nothing* to do with concern for life,
since every year, over 600,000 thousand women die in childbirth, and 7
million real, live children die after being born because their mothers
were not physically prepared for pregnancy, or they lacked access to
medical care. I don't see too many "pro-lifers" speaking out about
this. Little wonder, since a large number of these deaths could be
prevented with proper access to family planning, enabling women to
choose the time of their pregancies, space them out properly, or avoid
them altogether. Surely, then, the people blocking access to family
planning services are guilty of "murder" as well, or is that term
limited to liberals?

If you were concerned about life, you would support expanded welfare,
public health and education benefits for children, and you would
support family planning services which are proven to reduce infant
mortality, improve the health of newborns and their mothers, and reduce
the overall rate of abortion.

But given that the Religious Right is at war with everything that makes
our society more civil, rational and supportive of all its
citizens--not just the rich--your alleged "pro-life" stance rings
exceedingly hollow.

Sean C
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 4:38:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> wrote:
>Peacenik wrote:
>> So much for the Republican claim that government should stay out of people's
>> private lives. Here we have government inserting itself into a helpless
>> girl's most private places. This sickens me to the very core. This is why
>> Republicans are unfit to govern: whenever they govern they TAKE AWAY OUR
>> RIGHTS.
>>
>You think like most liberals.

You lie like most bigots.

> It is ok with you to kill an innocent
>baby,

Let's see you identify one person who has said so.

> but terrible to kill a mass murderer. Strange ethical structure.

You don't know anything about ethics.

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 4:38:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Sean C wrote:
> In article <wOvde.8345$cZ6.3091@fe02.lga>, Ron Hunter
> <rphunter@charter.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>You think like most liberals. It is ok with you to kill an innocent
>>baby, but terrible to kill a mass murderer. Strange ethical structure.
>
>
> A fetus is not a baby, no matter how much you wish to define it as
> such. Opposition to abortion has *nothing* to do with concern for life,
> since every year, over 600,000 thousand women die in childbirth, and 7
> million real, live children die after being born because their mothers
> were not physically prepared for pregnancy, or they lacked access to
> medical care. I don't see too many "pro-lifers" speaking out about
> this. Little wonder, since a large number of these deaths could be
> prevented with proper access to family planning, enabling women to
> choose the time of their pregancies, space them out properly, or avoid
> them altogether. Surely, then, the people blocking access to family
> planning services are guilty of "murder" as well, or is that term
> limited to liberals?
>
> If you were concerned about life, you would support expanded welfare,
> public health and education benefits for children, and you would
> support family planning services which are proven to reduce infant
> mortality, improve the health of newborns and their mothers, and reduce
> the overall rate of abortion.
>
> But given that the Religious Right is at war with everything that makes
> our society more civil, rational and supportive of all its
> citizens--not just the rich--your alleged "pro-life" stance rings
> exceedingly hollow.
>
> Sean C
You know nothing about me, or what I believe, or about my religion, or
lack of same. So HOW do you make these outrageous statements.
As for the argument that an abortion isn't killing a baby, tell me what
would be the result if you did NOT do the abortion? Well, come on,
surely your dad told you about that stuff... NO? Ok, then, if left
alone, that 'fetus' would be a baby, IS a baby from the moment it is
conceived. IF the life of the mother is at risk, (and it certainly
COULD be in the case of a 13 year old), then she MIGHT be justfied in an
abortion in defense of her self. And we agree on no one being allowed
to FORCE her to have, or not have one in that case. If you want to
reduce the rate of abortions, then tell women that if they have children
they can't support, they WILL be sterilized. That would decrease the
rate considerably, but only if abortion is made illegal except in
self-defense.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 4:38:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Ray Fischer wrote:
> Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> wrote:
>
>>Peacenik wrote:
>>
>>>So much for the Republican claim that government should stay out of people's
>>>private lives. Here we have government inserting itself into a helpless
>>>girl's most private places. This sickens me to the very core. This is why
>>>Republicans are unfit to govern: whenever they govern they TAKE AWAY OUR
>>>RIGHTS.
>>>
>>
>>You think like most liberals.
>
>
> You lie like most bigots.
>
>
>> It is ok with you to kill an innocent
>>baby,
>
>
> Let's see you identify one person who has said so.
>
>
>>but terrible to kill a mass murderer. Strange ethical structure.
>
>
> You don't know anything about ethics.
>
Please explain how killing a person who can't refrain from killing
others, even in prison, is unethical? Do you believe that self-defense
is unethical? If you do, you are beyond hope, and Darwinian selection
will eliminate your line sometime in the future.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 5:56:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Mon, 02 May 2005 20:30:33 -0500, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net>
in news message <_uAde.31484$c42.4017@fe07.lga> wrote:

>You know nothing about me, or what I believe, or about my religion, or
>lack of same. So HOW do you make these outrageous statements.
>As for the argument that an abortion isn't killing a baby, tell me what
>would be the result if you did NOT do the abortion? Well, come on,
>surely your dad told you about that stuff... NO? Ok, then, if left
>alone, that 'fetus' would be a baby,

Ah, no. If left alone a fetus would not become a baby. It would be
dead. As yet. a fetus cannot develop without constantly using the
body of another person.

A person is not required to donate organs to another person even if
the potential donee would die as a result of withholding that donated
organ. This act of withholding an organ donation for any reason is
not considered to be an act of "killing" despite the fact that the
potential donee dies. It is the same with withholding the use of a
woman's reproductive organs.


> IS a baby from the moment it is
>conceived. IF the life of the mother is at risk, (and it certainly
>COULD be in the case of a 13 year old), then she MIGHT be justfied in an
>abortion in defense of her self.

There is no need for justification if that is the woman's choice. I
would not need to justify my refusal to donate my kidney or part of my
liver to a relative. I would be my choice to donate or not to donate,
just as it would be my choice to donate my uterus or not donate my
uterus for the use of a fetus.

>And we agree on no one being allowed
>to FORCE her to have, or not have one in that case.

The only force in this case is that the State is forcing the 13 year
old to carry the pregnancy to term against her express wishes.

>If you want to
>reduce the rate of abortions, then tell women that if they have children
>they can't support, they WILL be sterilized.

That's seems rather draconian. Why don't we just provide all women
with the birth control method of their choice. Some surely will
choose sterilization, but it will be the woman's choice, not the
State's. You might want to reflect on how much power you are willing
to give the State over your personal and sexual life.

I also find it interesting that you suggest that only women be
sterilized. Didn't your father tell you that it takes a male as well
as a female to produce a pregnancy?

> That would decrease the
>rate considerably, but only if abortion is made illegal except in
>self-defense.

Do you see yourself with the title of Grand Inquisitor and
Sterilization Master? Maybe you could suggest that the women be
sterilized without anesthetic and you could record their screams of
pain. Holy, Holy, Holy. Merciful and mighty. God® in three persons,
blessed Trinity.


Liz #658 BAAWA

4th Law: Most people cannot imagine a god morally superior
to themselves; if you want to know what such a person would
do if they had ultimate power, ask them about their deity.
-- Abner Mintz
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 7:32:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> wrote:
>Ray Fischer wrote:
>> Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Peacenik wrote:
>>>
>>>>So much for the Republican claim that government should stay out of people's
>>>>private lives. Here we have government inserting itself into a helpless
>>>>girl's most private places. This sickens me to the very core. This is why
>>>>Republicans are unfit to govern: whenever they govern they TAKE AWAY OUR
>>>>RIGHTS.
>>>>
>>>
>>>You think like most liberals.
>>
>> You lie like most bigots.
>>
>>> It is ok with you to kill an innocent
>>>baby,
>>
>> Let's see you identify one person who has said so.

I didn't think so.

>>>but terrible to kill a mass murderer. Strange ethical structure.
>>
>> You don't know anything about ethics.
>>
>Please explain how killing a person who can't refrain from killing
>others, even in prison, is unethical?

Not interested in your asinine strawman. Prisons are equipped to deal
with violent criminals. Most of the civilized world manages just fine
without resorting to execution.

> Do you believe that self-defense
>is unethical?

Unlike you, I think that people have a right to protect themselves.
You think that pregnant women should NOT be allowed that basic right.

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 7:32:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Ray Fischer wrote:
> Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> wrote:
>
>>Ray Fischer wrote:
>>
>>>Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Peacenik wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>So much for the Republican claim that government should stay out of people's
>>>>>private lives. Here we have government inserting itself into a helpless
>>>>>girl's most private places. This sickens me to the very core. This is why
>>>>>Republicans are unfit to govern: whenever they govern they TAKE AWAY OUR
>>>>>RIGHTS.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You think like most liberals.
>>>
>>>You lie like most bigots.
>>>
>>>
>>>>It is ok with you to kill an innocent
>>>>baby,
>>>
>>>Let's see you identify one person who has said so.
>
>
> I didn't think so.
>
>
>>>>but terrible to kill a mass murderer. Strange ethical structure.
>>>
>>>You don't know anything about ethics.
>>>
>>
>>Please explain how killing a person who can't refrain from killing
>>others, even in prison, is unethical?
>
>
> Not interested in your asinine strawman. Prisons are equipped to deal
> with violent criminals. Most of the civilized world manages just fine
> without resorting to execution.
>
>
>> Do you believe that self-defense
>>is unethical?
>
>
> Unlike you, I think that people have a right to protect themselves.
> You think that pregnant women should NOT be allowed that basic right.
>
I think you need to learn to read. Obviously, you are so blinded by
your own bias you can't even read what I have written.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 7:41:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Mon, 02 May 2005 20:30:33 -0500, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net>
wrote:

>Sean C wrote:
>> In article <wOvde.8345$cZ6.3091@fe02.lga>, Ron Hunter
>> <rphunter@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>You think like most liberals. It is ok with you to kill an innocent
>>>baby, but terrible to kill a mass murderer. Strange ethical structure.
>>
>>
>> A fetus is not a baby, no matter how much you wish to define it as
>> such. Opposition to abortion has *nothing* to do with concern for life,
>> since every year, over 600,000 thousand women die in childbirth, and 7
>> million real, live children die after being born because their mothers
>> were not physically prepared for pregnancy, or they lacked access to
>> medical care. I don't see too many "pro-lifers" speaking out about
>> this. Little wonder, since a large number of these deaths could be
>> prevented with proper access to family planning, enabling women to
>> choose the time of their pregancies, space them out properly, or avoid
>> them altogether. Surely, then, the people blocking access to family
>> planning services are guilty of "murder" as well, or is that term
>> limited to liberals?
>>
>> If you were concerned about life, you would support expanded welfare,
>> public health and education benefits for children, and you would
>> support family planning services which are proven to reduce infant
>> mortality, improve the health of newborns and their mothers, and reduce
>> the overall rate of abortion.
>>
>> But given that the Religious Right is at war with everything that makes
>> our society more civil, rational and supportive of all its
>> citizens--not just the rich--your alleged "pro-life" stance rings
>> exceedingly hollow.
>>
>> Sean C
>You know nothing about me, or what I believe, or about my religion, or
>lack of same. So HOW do you make these outrageous statements.
>As for the argument that an abortion isn't killing a baby, tell me what
>would be the result if you did NOT do the abortion?
Well after it was born either vaginally or via c-section the the fetus
becomes a human baby
> Well, come on,
>surely your dad told you about that stuff... NO? Ok, then, if left
>alone, that 'fetus' would be a baby, IS a baby from the moment it is
>conceived.
No it's only a baby after birth, until that time it has the potential
to be a baby.
> IF the life of the mother is at risk, (and it certainly
>COULD be in the case of a 13 year old), then she MIGHT be justfied in an
>abortion in defense of her self.
She is justified becuase it's her body and her reproductive sytem that
we are talking about, it's kind of like a tatoo we have no say in
wjether a person gets one or gets one removed, it's none of our
business. If you don't believe in abortion then don't have one, no one
is forcing you to have one, we reccomend it in the case of the health
of the mother but we don't make you have one.
> And we agree on no one being allowed to FORCE her to have,
> or not have one in that case.
In the case of her health? I can agree to that.
> If you want to reduce the rate of abortions, then tell women that if they have children
>they can't support, they WILL be sterilized.
Now the truth comes out only the wealthy can have children becuase
they can afford them. The better way to reduce abortions is to reduce
unwanted pregnancy be increaseing acces to birth control methods like
Pills, Condomns, Spermicides etc.
> That would decrease the rate considerably, but only if abortion is made illegal except in
>self-defense.
So does reducing unwanted pregnancy but with out making it so that
only the rich can have children

Azrael

The thiest/diest defense:

1)I believe in god, ergo god exists
2)I believe in god, ergo I know what god wills, wants, the path to god, etc.
3)I believe in god, ergo I am right/correct
4)You don't agree with me, you are wrong (see 1,2,and/or 3 above)
5)You dont' beleive as I do then you are wrong (see 1,2,and/or 3 above)
6)You want proof of god? (see 1,2,and/or 3 above)
7)You have evidence god does not exist (see 1,2,and/or 3 above)
8)If you don't believe as I do you are wrong (see 1,2,and/or 3 above)

There was no "before" the beginning of our universe, because once upon a time there was no time.
John D. Barrow

Question #1: If I get im my spaceship and fly to the very edge of the universe what do I see out the front window?
Question #2: What is the most mass/matter that a black hole can obsorb and what happens after it reaches that point and trys to absorb more matter?
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 10:48:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"after it was born either vaginally or via c-section the the fetus
becomes a human baby "

Are you really going to stick with your Feminazi belief that, a
millionth of a second before birth, the baby is just a blob of cells
and not a distinct, living being? Even Planned Parenthood or Emily's
List don't believe such nonsense anymore...that's why they've retreated
more to the "rights of the woman" rather than battle science and say
"it/fetus/blob/collection of cells" is not alive.

"No it's only a baby after birth, until that time it has the potential
to be a baby."

I'll remember that the next time you have to use a ventilator or
hyperbaric chamber. "He ain't a human again until he gets disconnected
or comes outta that thang!"

"She is justified becuase it's her body and her reproductive sytem that
we are talking about, it's kind of like a tatoo we have no say in
wjether a person gets one or gets one removed, it's none of our
business. If you don't believe in abortion then don't have one, no one
is forcing you to have one, we reccomend it in the case of the health
of the mother but we don't make you have one. "

Close-minded Hypocrite! I am constantly amazed at the extents to which
liberals will push their noses into others' personal business (can't
get medicine without government-regulated prescription, estate taxes
upon death of family member, how much water can be in my toilet when I
flush it per EPA) yet when it comes to the sacred cow of liberal
politics - abortion - No sir! You can't even regulate abortion clinics
like other medical facilities. Liberals are that extreme,
close-minded, backward-thinking, and hypocritical.

"Now the truth comes out only the wealthy can have children becuase
they can afford them. The better way to reduce abortions is to reduce
unwanted pregnancy be increaseing acces to birth control methods like
Pills, Condomns, Spermicides etc."

Or...even...abstinence [GASP!] How dare he say that word in
cyberspace! You see, God's way is always the best way. It's just that
liberals do not like it as God's way conflicts with how they feel...and
to a liberal, how they feel determines good and evil, right and wrong,
best and worst, and truth and fiction. Liberals have anchored their
whole reality to their emotions...and it is a ship which will always
sink.

The atheist/agnostic defense:
1) I don't want to believe in God, ergo God cannot exist
2) I don't want to believe in God, ergo I, with my own limited
carbon-based mind, know what is good and evil
3) I don't want to believe in God, ergo I am right/correct and everyone
else is closed-minded, hypocritical, mean-spirited, [blah], [blah],
[blah]
4) You don't agree with me, you are wrong (see 1,2,and/or 3 above)
5) You dont' believe as I do, then you are wrong (see 1,2,and/or 3
above)
6) You want proof of that God doesn't exist? (see 1,2,and/or 3 above)
7) You have evidence God does exist (see 1,2,and/or 3 above)
8) If you don't believe as I do, you are wrong (see 1,2,and/or 3 above)


"There was no "before" the beginning of our universe, because once upon
a time there was no time. John D. Barrow"

Wow! Finally, a skeptic with some grasp of the Bible. He's right.
God created time and space out of nothing. Maybe this Barrow fellow is
beginning to see the light.

"Question #1: If I get im my spaceship and fly to the very edge of the
universe what do I see out the front window?"

The same kind of thing happened to early navigators on great big,
wooden ships as they approached the edge of the world and though that
they'd fall off. The difference is that they returned and were happy.
You'll come back and whine about your whole vision of the universe
being wrong.

"Question #2: What is the most mass/matter that a black hole can
obsorb and what happens after it reaches that point and trys to absorb
more matter?"

As the black hole absorbs more knowledge without the wisdom to handle
it...as the black hole puts all of its trust and faith in its own
intelligence and perception...the black hole approaches the point where
its heart and mind are so hardened and closed-off to anything
else...that it becomes an atheist. :-)
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 10:59:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Another constructive comment from the party of enlightenment,
tolerance, and open-mindedness.

People force their will on others all the time including a
girl...sometimes using the law to do it. The law forces me to pay
taxes to subsidize someone else's healthcare including
government-sanctioned abortions. How many laws and regulations force
the girl to obey her parents, restrict what she can wear to school,
prevent her from having her ears pierced without supervision (but she
can get an abortion at will), and will expel her from school if she
gives a Tylenol to a friend on school property.

Sean, given your unsophisticated post, you obviously spend too much
time on pornography sites and not enough time doing something
worthwhile with your life. God has a plan for your life...and it isn't
thinking about a "tit" or "cock" all day long.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 12:56:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:0JFde.31445$Jg7.27322@fe03.lga...

snip
> I think you need to learn to read. Obviously, you are so blinded by
> your own bias you can't even read what I have written.

Pot - Kettle - Black.
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 1:30:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> writes:

>"after it was born either vaginally or via c-section the the fetus
>becomes a human baby "

>Are you really going to stick with your Feminazi belief that, a
>millionth of a second before birth, the baby is just a blob of cells
>and not a distinct, living being? Even Planned Parenthood or Emily's
>List don't believe such nonsense anymore...that's why they've retreated
>more to the "rights of the woman" rather than battle science and say
>"it/fetus/blob/collection of cells" is not alive.

Too bad no one was claiming it *wasn't* alive, to begin with.

>"No it's only a baby after birth, until that time it has the potential
>to be a baby."

>I'll remember that the next time you have to use a ventilator or
>hyperbaric chamber. "He ain't a human again until he gets disconnected
>or comes outta that thang!"

What part of "born, human, and alive" are you incapable of understanding?

>"She is justified becuase it's her body and her reproductive sytem that
>we are talking about, it's kind of like a tatoo we have no say in
>wjether a person gets one or gets one removed, it's none of our
>business. If you don't believe in abortion then don't have one, no one
>is forcing you to have one, we reccomend it in the case of the health
>of the mother but we don't make you have one. "

>Close-minded Hypocrite! I am constantly amazed at the extents to which
>liberals will push their noses into others' personal business (can't
>get medicine without government-regulated prescription, estate taxes
>upon death of family member, how much water can be in my toilet when I
>flush it per EPA) yet when it comes to the sacred cow of liberal
>politics - abortion - No sir! You can't even regulate abortion clinics
>like other medical facilities. Liberals are that extreme,
>close-minded, backward-thinking, and hypocritical.

Big words, coming from someone in northwest Arkansas - where the 20th Century
still hasn't quite taken hold yet, in some respects. (I'm about as liberal as
Attila the Hun, and I've been pro-choice for a decade or three...in addition
to being a parent and grandparent.)

[the rest of the repetition of the one-note song deleted]

--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (soon to be TCI's 2005-06 Houston Aeros)
LAST GAME: Chicago 5, Houston 3 (April 26)
NEXT GAME: Date/opponent/site TBA in August 2005
May 3, 2005 4:23:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

nilita@mailinator.com (La N) wrote:

>http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl...
>
>Girl, 13, argues right to abortion
>
>Judge asked to reverse decision by state guardian
>
>By John Coté
>Staff Writer
>Posted April 30 2005
>
>"Why can't I make my own decision?"
>
>That was the blunt question to a judge from a pregnant 13-year-old
>girl ensnared in a Palm Beach County court fight over whether she can
>have an abortion.
>
>"I don't know," Circuit Judge Ronald Alvarez replied

But why post this to the rec.photo.digital news group.
What has this to do with digital photography?

Regards Brian
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 4:23:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Brian wrote:
> nilita@mailinator.com (La N) wrote:
>
>
>>http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl...
>>
>>Girl, 13, argues right to abortion
>>
>>Judge asked to reverse decision by state guardian
>>
>>By John Coté
>>Staff Writer
>>Posted April 30 2005
>>
>>"Why can't I make my own decision?"
>>
>>That was the blunt question to a judge from a pregnant 13-year-old
>>girl ensnared in a Palm Beach County court fight over whether she can
>>have an abortion.
>>
>>"I don't know," Circuit Judge Ronald Alvarez replied
>
>
> But why post this to the rec.photo.digital news group.
> What has this to do with digital photography?
>
> Regards Brian
Brian,
Just kill the tread, and don't read the messages, and DON'T reply to
them. Bye.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 5:25:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:wOvde.8345$cZ6.3091@fe02.lga...
> Peacenik wrote:
> > So much for the Republican claim that government should stay out of
people's
> > private lives. Here we have government inserting itself into a helpless
> > girl's most private places. This sickens me to the very core. This is
why
> > Republicans are unfit to govern: whenever they govern they TAKE AWAY OUR
> > RIGHTS.
> >
> >
> You think like most liberals. It is ok with you to kill an innocent
> baby, but terrible to kill a mass murderer. Strange ethical structure.

You think like most conservatives. It is OK to tell the most completely
idiotic lies like you did just now.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 5:25:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Peacenik wrote:
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:wOvde.8345$cZ6.3091@fe02.lga...
>
>>Peacenik wrote:
>>
>>>So much for the Republican claim that government should stay out of
>
> people's
>
>>>private lives. Here we have government inserting itself into a helpless
>>>girl's most private places. This sickens me to the very core. This is
>
> why
>
>>>Republicans are unfit to govern: whenever they govern they TAKE AWAY OUR
>>>RIGHTS.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>You think like most liberals. It is ok with you to kill an innocent
>>baby, but terrible to kill a mass murderer. Strange ethical structure.
>
>
> You think like most conservatives. It is OK to tell the most completely
> idiotic lies like you did just now.
>
>
No, it is the truth, verified in literally millions of cases. ABortion
on demand, for any reason, and at ANY point in the pregnancy is OK to
liberals, but executing a serial killer is unethical. And the worst
thing about this is that you can't even see anything odd about the
viewpoint.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 5:29:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:_uAde.31484$c42.4017@fe07.lga...
> If you want to
> reduce the rate of abortions, then tell women that if they have children
> they can't support, they WILL be sterilized.

You truly do hate freedom. You are sick.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 5:29:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Peacenik wrote:
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:_uAde.31484$c42.4017@fe07.lga...
>> If you want to
>> reduce the rate of abortions, then tell women that if they have
>> children they can't support, they WILL be sterilized.
>
> You truly do hate freedom. You are sick.

He'd be real happy in China. Except of course they ain't white folk and may
not even be real people.

When the baby was born the jubilant Chinese man went to see his son.
He was dismayed to find a blue eyed blond baby.
He confronted his wife who denied being unfaithful but, he said with sadness
in his heart.

"Two wongs don't make a white dear."
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 5:29:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Peacenik wrote:
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:_uAde.31484$c42.4017@fe07.lga...
>
>>If you want to
>>reduce the rate of abortions, then tell women that if they have children
>>they can't support, they WILL be sterilized.
>
>
> You truly do hate freedom. You are sick.
>
>
No, I don't hate freedom, but I DO hate paying for the irresponsible
conduct of others, and so would you if you thought about it for a while
instead of swallowing all the liberal pablum you have been fed from birth.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 5:29:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Peacenik" <cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:D 5728b$s2u$1@news.seed.net.tw...
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:_uAde.31484$c42.4017@fe07.lga...
> > If you want to
> > reduce the rate of abortions, then tell women that if they have children
> > they can't support, they WILL be sterilized.
>
> You truly do hate freedom. You are sick.

So, by his logic, my birthmother should have been sterilized after giving
birth to me and subsequently relinquishing me for adoption, thus not
allowing her to later give birth to my half-bro and half-sis. He's big on
punishment, isn't he.

How about we cut off the birthfather's balls while we're at it?
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 5:29:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Mike Painter wrote:
> Peacenik wrote:
>
>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>news:_uAde.31484$c42.4017@fe07.lga...
>>
>>>If you want to
>>>reduce the rate of abortions, then tell women that if they have
>>>children they can't support, they WILL be sterilized.
>>
>>You truly do hate freedom. You are sick.
>
>
> He'd be real happy in China. Except of course they ain't white folk and may
> not even be real people.
>
> When the baby was born the jubilant Chinese man went to see his son.
> He was dismayed to find a blue eyed blond baby.
> He confronted his wife who denied being unfaithful but, he said with sadness
> in his heart.
>
> "Two wongs don't make a white dear."
>
>
Funny, but genetically unsound.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
May 3, 2005 5:29:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Tue, 03 May 2005 02:32:44 -0500, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net>
wrote:

>Peacenik wrote:
>> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>> news:_uAde.31484$c42.4017@fe07.lga...
>>
>>>If you want to
>>>reduce the rate of abortions, then tell women that if they have children
>>>they can't support, they WILL be sterilized.
>>
>>
>> You truly do hate freedom. You are sick.
>>
>>
>No, I don't hate freedom, but I DO hate paying for the irresponsible
>conduct of others, and so would you if you thought about it for a while
>instead of swallowing all the liberal pablum you have been fed from birth.

Actually you apparently hate women. Otherwise you would want the
imprisionment of the father to work off paying for whatever children
he sired.

More likely like most conservatives, you have children that you have
sired out there that you aren't willing to take responsibility for and
you like an environment that blames the women for everything.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 5:29:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:wOFde.31448$Jg7.13141@fe03.lga...
> Peacenik wrote:
> > "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> > news:_uAde.31484$c42.4017@fe07.lga...
> >
> >>If you want to
> >>reduce the rate of abortions, then tell women that if they have children
> >>they can't support, they WILL be sterilized.
> >
> >
> > You truly do hate freedom. You are sick.
> >
> >
> No, I don't hate freedom, but I DO hate paying for the irresponsible
> conduct of others, and so would you if you thought about it for a while
> instead of swallowing all the liberal pablum you have been fed from birth.

I take it you're for the birthfathers being sterilized as well, right? If
mean, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, correct?
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
May 3, 2005 5:29:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:3dpajbF6sacm7U1@individual.net...
>
> "Peacenik" <cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:D 5728b$s2u$1@news.seed.net.tw...
>> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>> news:_uAde.31484$c42.4017@fe07.lga...
>> > If you want to
>> > reduce the rate of abortions, then tell women that if they have
>> > children
>> > they can't support, they WILL be sterilized.
>>
>> You truly do hate freedom. You are sick.
>
> So, by his logic, my birthmother should have been sterilized after giving
> birth to me and subsequently relinquishing me for adoption, thus not
> allowing her to later give birth to my half-bro and half-sis. He's big on
> punishment, isn't he.
>
> How about we cut off the birthfather's balls while we're at it?

Seems like someone is wanting to start up the AMA's unnecessary hysterectomy
revenue machine again.


> --
> ------
> Robyn
> Resident Witchypoo
> #1557
> Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
>
>
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 5:29:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Robibnikoff wrote:
> "Peacenik" <cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:D 5728b$s2u$1@news.seed.net.tw...
>
>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>news:_uAde.31484$c42.4017@fe07.lga...
>>
>>>If you want to
>>>reduce the rate of abortions, then tell women that if they have children
>>>they can't support, they WILL be sterilized.
>>
>>You truly do hate freedom. You are sick.
>
>
> So, by his logic, my birthmother should have been sterilized after giving
> birth to me and subsequently relinquishing me for adoption, thus not
> allowing her to later give birth to my half-bro and half-sis. He's big on
> punishment, isn't he.
>
> How about we cut off the birthfather's balls while we're at it?
IF he wasn't willing to support the child, fine. Probably the girl
would be happy to assist!


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
May 3, 2005 5:29:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:3dpal2F6t2bnfU1@individual.net...
>
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:wOFde.31448$Jg7.13141@fe03.lga...
>> Peacenik wrote:
>> > "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>> > news:_uAde.31484$c42.4017@fe07.lga...
>> >
>> >>If you want to
>> >>reduce the rate of abortions, then tell women that if they have
>> >>children
>> >>they can't support, they WILL be sterilized.
>> >
>> >
>> > You truly do hate freedom. You are sick.
>> >
>> >
>> No, I don't hate freedom, but I DO hate paying for the irresponsible
>> conduct of others, and so would you if you thought about it for a while
>> instead of swallowing all the liberal pablum you have been fed from
>> birth.
>
> I take it you're for the birthfathers being sterilized as well, right? If
> mean, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, correct?

Sure thing.
Ensures they can not produce more children than they can support comfortably
enough.
Many men have opterd for vasectomies for that very reason.

> --
> ------
> Robyn
> Resident Witchypoo
> #1557
> Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
>
>
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 5:29:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote in message
news:lDKde.153072$UW6.88148@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
> news:3dpajbF6sacm7U1@individual.net...
> >
> > "Peacenik" <cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:D 5728b$s2u$1@news.seed.net.tw...
> >> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> >> news:_uAde.31484$c42.4017@fe07.lga...
> >> > If you want to
> >> > reduce the rate of abortions, then tell women that if they have
> >> > children
> >> > they can't support, they WILL be sterilized.
> >>
> >> You truly do hate freedom. You are sick.
> >
> > So, by his logic, my birthmother should have been sterilized after
giving
> > birth to me and subsequently relinquishing me for adoption, thus not
> > allowing her to later give birth to my half-bro and half-sis. He's big
on
> > punishment, isn't he.
> >
> > How about we cut off the birthfather's balls while we're at it?
>
> Seems like someone is wanting to start up the AMA's unnecessary
hysterectomy
> revenue machine again.

WTF?
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 5:29:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Robibnikoff wrote:
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:wOFde.31448$Jg7.13141@fe03.lga...
>
>>Peacenik wrote:
>>
>>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>news:_uAde.31484$c42.4017@fe07.lga...
>>>
>>>
>>>>If you want to
>>>>reduce the rate of abortions, then tell women that if they have children
>>>>they can't support, they WILL be sterilized.
>>>
>>>
>>>You truly do hate freedom. You are sick.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>No, I don't hate freedom, but I DO hate paying for the irresponsible
>>conduct of others, and so would you if you thought about it for a while
>>instead of swallowing all the liberal pablum you have been fed from birth.
>
>
> I take it you're for the birthfathers being sterilized as well, right? If
> mean, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, correct?
DAMN RIGHT!
Three strikes and you are CUT.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 5:29:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.abortion,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.military,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Robibnikoff wrote:
> "Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:lDKde.153072$UW6.88148@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>
>>"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
>>news:3dpajbF6sacm7U1@individual.net...
>>
>>>"Peacenik" <cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:D 5728b$s2u$1@news.seed.net.tw...
>>>
>>>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:_uAde.31484$c42.4017@fe07.lga...
>>>>
>>>>>If you want to
>>>>>reduce the rate of abortions, then tell women that if they have
>>>>>children
>>>>>they can't support, they WILL be sterilized.
>>>>
>>>>You truly do hate freedom. You are sick.
>>>
>>>So, by his logic, my birthmother should have been sterilized after
>
> giving
>
>>>birth to me and subsequently relinquishing me for adoption, thus not
>>>allowing her to later give birth to my half-bro and half-sis. He's big
>
> on
>
>>>punishment, isn't he.
>>>
>>>How about we cut off the birthfather's balls while we're at it?
>>
>>Seems like someone is wanting to start up the AMA's unnecessary
>
> hysterectomy
>
>>revenue machine again.
>
>
> WTF?

I think she is referring to the study done a while ago that many
hysterectomies weren't really medically necessary. They were done more
to generate revenue than for medical reasons.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
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