Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

New Nikon?

Last response: in Digital Camera
Share
May 2, 2005 11:42:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Does anyone know if Nikon has a camera in the works to compete with the
Digital Rebel XT? If so, any word on when?

More about : nikon

Anonymous
May 2, 2005 11:52:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Tim <tbewer@mxn.ryr.czom> wrote:
> Does anyone know if Nikon has a camera in the works to compete with the
> Digital Rebel XT? If so, any word on when?
>

What about the Nikon D70 or D70s doesn't compete with the Rebel XT? I
don't think the megapixel difference is more than a minor feature
difference.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 12:34:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> Tim <tbewer@mxn.ryr.czom> wrote:
>
>>Does anyone know if Nikon has a camera in the works to compete with the
>>Digital Rebel XT? If so, any word on when?
>
> What about the Nikon D70 or D70s doesn't compete with the Rebel XT? I
> don't think the megapixel difference is more than a minor feature
> difference.


the D70 isn't quite on the same level as the Rebel XT, or the 20D. It
tried to slip in between the Rebel and the 10D, but lost.

The D50 is clearly aimed at the entry-level market, competing against
the Rebel and Rebel XT. It's at the Rebel XT price range, but with the
Rebel's megapixel rating. However, 6 megapixels is plenty for any
consumer, and its sensor is newer than the sensor in the Rebel, so there
should be more dynamic range.

The D70s is aimed at the advanced amateur/cheapskate pro level, and
competes with the 20D, but still lacks the extra megapixels. Still, for
most people it won't matter.

--
Whatevah / Jerry Horn
Jerry {at} Whatevah.com (working address)
Freelance Photography and Web services.
spambait: spam@uce.gov
Related resources
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 12:34:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Whatevah" <jerry@whatevah.com> wrote in message
news:c9wde.20030$lZ.7701@trnddc04...
> Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
>> Tim <tbewer@mxn.ryr.czom> wrote:
>>
>>>Does anyone know if Nikon has a camera in the works to compete with the
>>>Digital Rebel XT? If so, any word on when?
>>
>> What about the Nikon D70 or D70s doesn't compete with the Rebel XT? I
>> don't think the megapixel difference is more than a minor feature
>> difference.
>
>
> the D70 isn't quite on the same level as the Rebel XT, or the 20D. It
> tried to slip in between the Rebel and the 10D, but lost.

But lost WHAT? The D70 is a fabulous camera.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 12:39:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Whatevah" <jerry@whatevah.com> wrote in message
news:c9wde.20030$lZ.7701@trnddc04...
> Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
>> Tim <tbewer@mxn.ryr.czom> wrote:
>>
>>>Does anyone know if Nikon has a camera in the works to compete with the
>>>Digital Rebel XT? If so, any word on when?
>>
>> What about the Nikon D70 or D70s doesn't compete with the Rebel XT? I
>> don't think the megapixel difference is more than a minor feature
>> difference.
>
>
> the D70 isn't quite on the same level as the Rebel XT, or the 20D. It
> tried to slip in between the Rebel and the 10D, but lost.
>
I have the "old" Rebel, but I'd rather have the D70 than the XT.

I don't like the menu-bias of the XT; it relies on its menus too much. You
have to go into the menus for flash compensation, and the ISO, white
balance, AF-mode, and quality settings are in fact menu-shortcuts as opposed
to a more "direct" approach the way the D70 (or even old Rebel) do it where
they use the "regular" LCD (control panel).

The XT is a D-SLR, it should act like one rather than being so menu-driven
with those particular settings.

LRH
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 12:59:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Tim" <tbewer@mXn.rYr.cZom> wrote in message
news:Hovde.34358$215.9598@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Does anyone know if Nikon has a camera in the works to compete with the
> Digital Rebel XT? If so, any word on when?

The D70s is due out soon. It is lower resolution than the XT, and lacks a
couple of important features that the XT has, such as mirror lock-up, and a
vertical grip, but it is Nikon's answer to the XT, for now.

See http://digitalslrinfo.com
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 12:59:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Steven M. Scharf" <scharf.steven@linkearth.net> wrote in message
news:rwwde.3018$7F4.1633@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> "Tim" <tbewer@mXn.rYr.cZom> wrote in message
> news:Hovde.34358$215.9598@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>> Does anyone know if Nikon has a camera in the works to compete with the
>> Digital Rebel XT? If so, any word on when?
>
> The D70s is due out soon. It is lower resolution than the XT, and lacks a
> couple of important features that the XT has, such as mirror lock-up, and
> a
> vertical grip, but it is Nikon's answer to the XT, for now.
>
> See http://digitalslrinfo.com
>
And don't forget that Nikon is providing the D70s firmware upgrade for the
D70. I hate to say it but few people can tell the difference between 6mp
and 8mp, and I'm trying to think when was the last time I used the mirror
lockup on my 35mm camera. Vertical grip? Handy, but also adds quite a bit
of weight, and not really necessary for great photos.

We can pit Nikon against Canon all day here, but either camera is more than
capable of getting the job done, assuming the photographer has the skill to
do it.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 1:00:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Whatevah" <jerry@whatevah.com> wrote in message
news:c9wde.20030$lZ.7701@trnddc04...

> the D70 isn't quite on the same level as the Rebel XT, or the 20D. It
> tried to slip in between the Rebel and the 10D, but lost.

It slipped in quite nicely between those two, and has sold extremely well.
It is a little below the Rebel XT in some ways, and a little above it in
others.

Steve
http://digitalslrinfo.com
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 6:41:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Whatevah <jerry@whatevah.com> wrote:
>
> the D70 isn't quite on the same level as the Rebel XT, or the 20D. It
> tried to slip in between the Rebel and the 10D, but lost.
>

Again, I have to ask, what about it is "not at the same level" as the
Rebel XT? What specifically? Again, you can cite the megapixel issue
if you like, but I think the 6MP and 8MP difference is a minor attribute
difference at best, and as such, I hope that isn't all that you can
cite.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
May 3, 2005 6:41:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4276e4e2$0$607$8046368a@newsreader.iphouse.net...

> Again, I have to ask, what about it is "not at the same level" as the
> Rebel XT? What specifically? Again, you can cite the megapixel issue
> if you like, but I think the 6MP and 8MP difference is a minor attribute
> difference at best, and as such, I hope that isn't all that you can
> cite.

IMO the only real differences are the XT's available vertical grip and more
cropping latitude with the added pixels. Canon *does* have a broader range
of lens options, such as three tilt-shifts and IS.
May 3, 2005 6:41:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"PhotoMan" <photoman@wfeca.net> wrote in message
news:00Cde.155972$vL3.119731@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> IMO the only real differences are the XT's available vertical grip and
more
> cropping latitude with the added pixels. Canon *does* have a broader range
> of lens options, such as three tilt-shifts and IS.
>
Forgot to mention Canon's AE capability with non-electronic lenses, such as
T-mount, Leica, microscope, telescopic and screw mount, which may be
important to some.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 7:43:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"PhotoMan" <photoman@wfeca.net> wrote in message
news:00Cde.155972$vL3.119731@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4276e4e2$0$607$8046368a@newsreader.iphouse.net...
>
> > Again, I have to ask, what about it is "not at the same level" as the
> > Rebel XT? What specifically? Again, you can cite the megapixel issue
> > if you like, but I think the 6MP and 8MP difference is a minor attribute
> > difference at best, and as such, I hope that isn't all that you can
> > cite.
>
> IMO the only real differences are the XT's available vertical grip and
more
> cropping latitude with the added pixels. Canon *does* have a broader range
> of lens options, such as three tilt-shifts and IS.

Nikon can't do those lenses due to the limitations of their lens mount.

One other difference is the lack of mirror lock-up on the D70. An
aftermarket vertical grip is available for the D70.
May 3, 2005 7:43:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Steven M. Scharf" <scharf.steven@linkearth.net> wrote in message
news:ErCde.3199$7F4.2515@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...

> One other difference is the lack of mirror lock-up on the D70. An
> aftermarket vertical grip is available for the D70.

From what I've read, the D70 has a very well damped mirror mechanism, so
that shouldn't be an issue. Further: I've only handled a D70 a couple times,
but it *does* feel much more substantial than Canon's Rebels. When did Nikon
announce a vertical grip for the D70?
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 7:43:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"PhotoMan" <photoman@wfeca.net> writes:
> From what I've read, the D70 has a very well damped mirror
> mechanism, so that shouldn't be an issue. Further: I've only handled
> a D70 a couple times, but it *does* feel much more substantial than
> Canon's Rebels. When did Nikon announce a vertical grip for the D70?

D70's mirror is pretty noisy. Nikonians.org are doing some experiments
to check whether the mirror slap affects images.

Nikon has no D70 vertical grip but Harbortronics offers one.
http://harbortronics.com/detail.php?id=2
May 3, 2005 12:54:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"PhotoMan" <photoman@wfeca.net> wrote in message
news:00Cde.155972$vL3.119731@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4276e4e2$0$607$8046368a@newsreader.iphouse.net...
>
>> Again, I have to ask, what about it is "not at the same level" as the
>> Rebel XT? What specifically? Again, you can cite the megapixel issue
>> if you like, but I think the 6MP and 8MP difference is a minor attribute
>> difference at best, and as such, I hope that isn't all that you can
>> cite.
>
> IMO the only real differences are the XT's available vertical grip and
> more
> cropping latitude with the added pixels. Canon *does* have a broader range
> of lens options, such as three tilt-shifts and IS.
>
Non of the lens you cite will be bought by the average XT owner...
May 3, 2005 12:58:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Steven M. Scharf" <scharf.steven@linkearth.net> wrote in message
news:ErCde.3199$7F4.2515@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "PhotoMan" <photoman@wfeca.net> wrote in message
> news:00Cde.155972$vL3.119731@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>>
>> "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:4276e4e2$0$607$8046368a@newsreader.iphouse.net...
>>
>> > Again, I have to ask, what about it is "not at the same level" as the
>> > Rebel XT? What specifically? Again, you can cite the megapixel issue
>> > if you like, but I think the 6MP and 8MP difference is a minor
>> > attribute
>> > difference at best, and as such, I hope that isn't all that you can
>> > cite.
>>
>> IMO the only real differences are the XT's available vertical grip and
> more
>> cropping latitude with the added pixels. Canon *does* have a broader
>> range
>> of lens options, such as three tilt-shifts and IS.
>
> Nikon can't do those lenses due to the limitations of their lens mount.
>
They do have VR lenses. Nikon has a shift lens, and a tilt-shift lens. The
"limitations" is an urban legend...
May 3, 2005 1:03:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Darrell" <spam@this.eh> wrote in message
news:0LadnSO60o4A6erfRVn-pg@rogers.com...
>
> "PhotoMan" <photoman@wfeca.net> wrote in message
> news:00Cde.155972$vL3.119731@bignews4.bellsouth.net...

> > IMO the only real differences are the XT's available vertical grip and
> > more
> > cropping latitude with the added pixels. Canon *does* have a broader
range
> > of lens options, such as three tilt-shifts and IS.


> Non of the lens you cite will be bought by the average XT owner...

Perhaps not, but the availability still applies. How many VR lenses do Nikon
make? Do any of the Nikon shift lenses provide auto exposure with the D70?
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 2:18:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Steven M. Scharf" <scharf.steven@linkearth.net> wrote in message
news:ErCde.3199$7F4.2515@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> Nikon can't do those lenses due to the limitations of their lens mount.

>

Really? I was under the impression the D2X could do them.

Tom
>
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 2:52:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

The message <7xll6xrkzh.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
from Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid&gt; contains these words:

> "PhotoMan" <photoman@wfeca.net> writes:
> > From what I've read, the D70 has a very well damped mirror
> > mechanism, so that shouldn't be an issue. Further: I've only handled
> > a D70 a couple times, but it *does* feel much more substantial than
> > Canon's Rebels. When did Nikon announce a vertical grip for the D70?

> D70's mirror is pretty noisy. Nikonians.org are doing some experiments
> to check whether the mirror slap affects images.

The D70 has much lower average shutter/mirror sound than 350D.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos350d/page6.asp

Deryck
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 3:33:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <rwwde.3018$7F4.1633@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
scharf.steven@linkearth.net says...
> "Tim" <tbewer@mXn.rYr.cZom> wrote in message
> news:Hovde.34358$215.9598@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > Does anyone know if Nikon has a camera in the works to compete with the
> > Digital Rebel XT? If so, any word on when?
>
> The D70s is due out soon. It is lower resolution than the XT, and lacks a
> couple of important features that the XT has, such as mirror lock-up, and a
> vertical grip, but it is Nikon's answer to the XT, for now.
>
> See http://digitalslrinfo.com
>
>
>
I can't possibly call those "important features." Mirror lockup is
really a specialty item, for people who have a strong interest in
specific types of long-exposure work, like astronomy. And the D70
handles fine without the vertical grip.

Diane
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 4:49:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Mirror lockup is
> really a specialty item, for people who have a strong interest in
> specific types of long-exposure work, like astronomy. >
> Diane

Or any macro work. Great feature you should use it more.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 8:19:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Roy" <royph...@iona-guesthouse.co.uk> wrote in message

> As I said, when you need your Camera to do something that it can not
do, change it.

> Who knows what the future will be. Your argument is even more stupid
than "My Camera has "xxx" and yours only has "yyy" ".

Your problem is that you're not looking at the big picture. "Change
it" may be good advice for a point and shoot camera that you outgrow,
but for an SLR, it means buying all new lenses, flashes, remotes, etc.,
if the system that you initially go with doesn't have a higher end body
that does what you want. This is one area where people actually do
often upgrade over time.

You may think it is "stupid," to consider where you may want to go in
the future, but most people would consider it common sense..
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 8:29:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

PhotoMan wrote:

> Who's wearing the damn blinkers? Where the hell did he say ANYthing
about 5
> years time? Maybe he's considering doing something 5 months from now.


It could be six months, one year, three years, whatever.

It is just common sense to look at the big picture, and buy into a
system that you will be able to stick with for the long term. We're
always seeing people complaining that they can't use Canon FD lenses on
the current EOS digital cameras, and this is about twenty years after
the FD system was discontinued. Nikon affecienados often state how
pleased they are that they can still use F mount lense on the D70.

Anyone with professional aspirations would be foolish to buy into
anything except Nikon or Canon, since to change over from a system that
did not offer professional bodies would be quite expensive.

Between Canon and Nikon, Canon currently has a big lead, since Nikon
has nothing with less than a 1.5 crop factor. The Nikon D2x is an
adequate competitor to the Canon 1D Mark II, but Nikon has nothing to
compete with the Canon 1Ds Mark II.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 8:44:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <FqLde.124563$f%4.91820@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
PhotoMan <photoman@wfeca.net> wrote:
>Do any of the Nikon shift lenses provide auto exposure with the D70?

Yes. The 85.

(Historically, auto exposure when the lens is shifted was supposed to be
possible only with the F3. I guess this is still the case.)


--
That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it
could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done
by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make.
-- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 10:27:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"PhotoMan" <photoman@wfeca.net> wrote in message
news:avCde.156114$vL3.101989@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Steven M. Scharf" <scharf.steven@linkearth.net> wrote in message
> news:ErCde.3199$7F4.2515@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> > One other difference is the lack of mirror lock-up on the D70. An
> > aftermarket vertical grip is available for the D70.
>
> From what I've read, the D70 has a very well damped mirror mechanism, so
> that shouldn't be an issue. Further: I've only handled a D70 a couple
times,
> but it *does* feel much more substantial than Canon's Rebels. When did
Nikon
> announce a vertical grip for the D70?

There is an after-market vertical grip. See:
http://www.harbortronics.com/VGD70.asp

The mirror lock-up is a feature that most people won't use, but that those
using long zoom lenses, at low ISO speeds, on a tripod, will miss. I'm not
sure why they didn't add this on the D70s. It may be related to some
functional issue that prevents it, rather than a marketing decision.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 10:32:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Diane Wilson" <diane@firelily.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ce12bada56741ce989ae3@news-server...
> In article <rwwde.3018$7F4.1633@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
> scharf.steven@linkearth.net says...
> > "Tim" <tbewer@mXn.rYr.cZom> wrote in message
> > news:Hovde.34358$215.9598@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > Does anyone know if Nikon has a camera in the works to compete with
the
> > > Digital Rebel XT? If so, any word on when?
> >
> > The D70s is due out soon. It is lower resolution than the XT, and lacks
a
> > couple of important features that the XT has, such as mirror lock-up,
and a
> > vertical grip, but it is Nikon's answer to the XT, for now.
> >
> > See http://digitalslrinfo.com
> >
> >
> >
> I can't possibly call those "important features." Mirror lockup is
> really a specialty item, for people who have a strong interest in
> specific types of long-exposure work, like astronomy. And the D70
> handles fine without the vertical grip.

These are good rationalizations, but the fact is that there are plenty of
non-professionals that have occasion to use mirror lock-up. It isn't the end
of the world to not have it, but the fact that the competition to Nikon does
have it, is just one check box in a camera selection process.

The vertical grip is not added just for handling. On film cameras it was
added to have a better grip for extensive portrait mode shooting. On digital
cameras the additional benefit is that you can add more batteries in the
grip. In any case, there was enough of a demand for a vertical grip that an
after-market one was developed, and is popular enough to be perpetually
back-ordered. For many of us, once the grip is on, it rarely comes off,
since it is so useful, but YMMV.

http://www.harbortronics.com/VGD70.asp
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 10:32:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On 2005-05-03, Steven M. Scharf <scharf.steven@linkearth.net> wrote:
> In any case, there was enough of a demand for a vertical grip that an
> after-market one was developed, and is popular enough to be perpetually
> back-ordered. For many of us, once the grip is on, it rarely comes off,
> since it is so useful, but YMMV.
>
> http://www.harbortronics.com/VGD70.asp

Does the side panel thing just stick out then, or is there a better seal
available? Just curious. It does make the D70 look like a real camera
with heft :-)


/Allan
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 10:34:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Darrell" <spam@this.eh> wrote in message
news:0LadnSO60o4A6erfRVn-pg@rogers.com...
>
> "PhotoMan" <photoman@wfeca.net> wrote in message
> news:00Cde.155972$vL3.119731@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> >
> > "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:4276e4e2$0$607$8046368a@newsreader.iphouse.net...
> >
> >> Again, I have to ask, what about it is "not at the same level" as the
> >> Rebel XT? What specifically? Again, you can cite the megapixel issue
> >> if you like, but I think the 6MP and 8MP difference is a minor
attribute
> >> difference at best, and as such, I hope that isn't all that you can
> >> cite.
> >
> > IMO the only real differences are the XT's available vertical grip and
> > more
> > cropping latitude with the added pixels. Canon *does* have a broader
range
> > of lens options, such as three tilt-shifts and IS.
> >
> Non of the lens you cite will be bought by the average XT owner...

This is a good rationalization, but it's possible that the XT owner may
eventually go up-market to a better body as he or she transitions from
beginner to semi-pro, or pro. It's good to look at the long term when making
a selection, in order to avoid wasting money in the future.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 10:38:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Roy" <royphoty@iona-guesthouse.co.uk> wrote in message
news:D LNde.11731$wu2.8130@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...

> Pick the Camera you like, which has the functions you need, and use it to
> the best of your abilities, when you find that it is incapable of doing
what
> you need it to do, then trade it in and buy a better one.

This is good advice, but it also make sense to look at where you may want to
go in the future, and choose a system that can support this. At the low end,
both the XT and D70 are excellent choices. But Nikon doesn't have the
breadth of product line that Canon has, at least at this point in time.
May 3, 2005 11:41:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Steven M. Scharf" <scharf.steven@linkearth.net> wrote in message
news:kyPde.3143$pe3.636@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> "Roy" <royphoty@iona-guesthouse.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:D LNde.11731$wu2.8130@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
>
>> Pick the Camera you like, which has the functions you need, and use it to
>> the best of your abilities, when you find that it is incapable of doing
> what
>> you need it to do, then trade it in and buy a better one.
>
> This is good advice, but it also make sense to look at where you may want
> to
> go in the future, and choose a system that can support this. At the low
> end,
> both the XT and D70 are excellent choices. But Nikon doesn't have the
> breadth of product line that Canon has, at least at this point in time.
>
>


As I said, when you need your Camera to do something that it can not do,
change it.

Who knows what the future will be. Your argument is even more stupid than
"My Camera has "xxx" and yours only has "yyy" ".

You are saying that "you might need "xxx" " in 5 years time and Canon has it
now. Well in 5 years time I might still not want "xxx", and even if I did,
by then I will have a choice of Cameras which do have it.

Take the blinkers off, they do not assist you to look for better pictures.

Get a Life

Roy G
May 3, 2005 11:41:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Roy" <royphoty@iona-guesthouse.co.uk> wrote in message
news:o tQde.18271$5A3.11730@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...

> As I said, when you need your Camera to do something that it can not do,
> change it.
>
> Who knows what the future will be. Your argument is even more stupid than
> "My Camera has "xxx" and yours only has "yyy" ".
>
> You are saying that "you might need "xxx" " in 5 years time and Canon has
it
> now. Well in 5 years time I might still not want "xxx", and even if I
did,
> by then I will have a choice of Cameras which do have it.
>
> Take the blinkers off, they do not assist you to look for better pictures.
>
> Get a Life
>
> Roy G

Who's wearing the damn blinkers? Where the hell did he say ANYthing about 5
years time? Maybe he's considering doing something 5 months from now.
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 12:09:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Steven M. Scharf" <scharf.steven@linkearth.net> wrote in message
news:kyPde.3143$pe3.636@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> "Roy" <royphoty@iona-guesthouse.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:D LNde.11731$wu2.8130@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
>
>> Pick the Camera you like, which has the functions you need, and use it to
>> the best of your abilities, when you find that it is incapable of doing
> what
>> you need it to do, then trade it in and buy a better one.
>
> This is good advice, but it also make sense to look at where you may want
> to
> go in the future, and choose a system that can support this. At the low
> end,
> both the XT and D70 are excellent choices. But Nikon doesn't have the
> breadth of product line that Canon has, at least at this point in time.
>
>

Hmm, the D2X is pretty darn good. Best Pro body for the money, by far. The
1DMKII doesn't even come CLOSE.

Tom
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 12:09:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <dUQde.43031$5f.24087@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
"Tom Scales" <tomtoo@softhome.net> wrote:

> Hmm, the D2X is pretty darn good. Best Pro body for the money, by far. The
> 1DMKII doesn't even come CLOSE.

Duck and cover.

--
Julian Vrieslander
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 2:00:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Allan Wind wrote:

>Does the side panel thing just stick out then, or is there a better
seal
>available? Just curious. It does make the D70 look like a real
camera
>with heft :-)

Apparently it sticks out. There has to be a connection for the shutter
release, and since the D70 isn't intended for use with a vertical grip,
they added that connector for it.
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 3:45:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

<scharf.steven@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1115162955.326665.144220@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> PhotoMan wrote:
>
>> Who's wearing the damn blinkers? Where the hell did he say ANYthing
> about 5
>> years time? Maybe he's considering doing something 5 months from now.
>
>
> It could be six months, one year, three years, whatever.
>
> It is just common sense to look at the big picture, and buy into a
> system that you will be able to stick with for the long term. We're
> always seeing people complaining that they can't use Canon FD lenses on
> the current EOS digital cameras, and this is about twenty years after
> the FD system was discontinued. Nikon affecienados often state how
> pleased they are that they can still use F mount lense on the D70.
>
> Anyone with professional aspirations would be foolish to buy into
> anything except Nikon or Canon, since to change over from a system that
> did not offer professional bodies would be quite expensive.
>
> Between Canon and Nikon, Canon currently has a big lead, since Nikon
> has nothing with less than a 1.5 crop factor. The Nikon D2x is an
> adequate competitor to the Canon 1D Mark II, but Nikon has nothing to
> compete with the Canon 1Ds Mark II.
>

Steven,

When you going to stop spouting the "has to be full frame" drivel. I doubt
any professional's customer has chosen not to buy because of it.

Tom
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 3:46:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Julian Vrieslander" <julianvREMOVE_THIS_PART@mindspring.com> wrote in
message
news:julianvREMOVE_THIS_PART-7AC9FB.16294503052005@gnus01.u.washington.edu...
> In article <dUQde.43031$5f.24087@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
> "Tom Scales" <tomtoo@softhome.net> wrote:
>
>> Hmm, the D2X is pretty darn good. Best Pro body for the money, by far.
>> The
>> 1DMKII doesn't even come CLOSE.
>
> Duck and cover.
>
> --
> Julian Vrieslander

Somebody has to respond to Scharf's BS
May 4, 2005 5:30:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Tim" <tbewer@mXn.rYr.cZom> wrote in message
news:Hovde.34358$215.9598@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Does anyone know if Nikon has a camera in the works to compete with the
> Digital Rebel XT? If so, any word on when?
>

I said get the Blinkers Off.

I am not wearing blinkers, admittedly I do have very poor eyesight, with
many blindspots, but I am not the one who is making stupid statements.

If I thought I would need some additional functions in 3 months time, I
would take that into consideration when buying my Camera - NOW.

To say that I should only consider Canon because it has " wider breadth of
product now" is taking a very "Blinkered" look. Things change, and rapidly
sometimes.

Who would have thought that Nikon AI lenses would be almost useless
nowadays? How many different Lens Mounts do Canon have? Do you remember
Breech Mount Lenses?

What is more important, what will be out-dated in 12 months time??

Canon and Nikon might know, but you can be bloody sure they are not going to
tell you. They do not think they owe you anything, you are just another
customer to be parted from his or her money.

Buy the Camera you want to use now, and enjoy using it until you outgrow its
capabilities.

There is no kind of guarantee that any system will still be compatible in 2
or 5 years time. If you don't understand that then you really are very
shortsighted, as well as wearing blinkers.
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 7:04:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Roy" <royphoty@iona-guesthouse.co.uk> wrote in message
news:K74ee.13402$l37.3941@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
> "Tim" <tbewer@mXn.rYr.cZom> wrote in message
> news:Hovde.34358$215.9598@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > Does anyone know if Nikon has a camera in the works to compete with the
> > Digital Rebel XT? If so, any word on when?
> >
>
> I said get the Blinkers Off.

It's blinders, not blinkers, and you definitely have them on.

> To say that I should only consider Canon because it has " wider breadth of
> product now" is taking a very "Blinkered" look. Things change, and
rapidly
> sometimes.

Rarely do they change rapidly. Canon has been using the EOS mount since
1987. Canon has been using the F mount since 1959. Neither show any signs of
making a wholesale change to their mount. While some Nikon lenses don't work
on their more recent cameras, most do.

> Buy the Camera you want to use now, and enjoy using it until you outgrow
its
> capabilities.

Buy the camera you want to use now, but when making the decision on what you
want to use, keep in mind where you may want to be in the next 5 years, and
buy into a system that provides that capability, rather than hoping the
manufacturer of what you buy may come out with an upgrade path later. Both
Canon and Nikon offer an upgrade path to prosumer and professional. If you
have aspirations to move up, these are the only two systems to consider.

> There is no kind of guarantee that any system will still be compatible in
2
> or 5 years time. If you don't understand that then you really are very
> shortsighted, as well as wearing blinkers.

If history is any indicator, you are 100% incorrect. Read, study, learn.

Steve
http://digitalslrinfo.com
May 4, 2005 7:04:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Wed, 04 May 2005 15:04:06 GMT, "Steven M. Scharf"
<scharf.steven@linkearth.net> wrote:

>"Roy" <royphoty@iona-guesthouse.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:K74ee.13402$l37.3941@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
>> "Tim" <tbewer@mXn.rYr.cZom> wrote in message
>> news:Hovde.34358$215.9598@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>> > Does anyone know if Nikon has a camera in the works to compete with the
>> > Digital Rebel XT? If so, any word on when?
>> >
>>
>> I said get the Blinkers Off.
>
>It's blinders, not blinkers, and you definitely have them on.

I don't know about the merits of this camera discussion, but in
driving horses the term blinkers is accepted and usually protects the
horse from surprise/distractions from the rear. Enough said on that.

On a working farm, the draft horses had "blinders", the driving horses
(racing horses) had "blinkers" and I think there is a Scandinavian
usage of "winkers".

Whatever they are called, they are all about getting the job done. The
horse doesn't like them but more fields are plowed, and races won and
fewer horses darting into traffic when they are on than when they are
off.

Ahh, the days of glass plates, 20kg cameras, flash powder and wool
suits and a buggy board with a black tent. Back then you could take it
all with you in a leisurely way. You could start a war with daylight
fill flash.

Now here we are trying to decide whether the world is to be saved with
a D50 or and XT.

These wars are great... if Nikon and Canon hadn't convinced us that we
should now buy a new camera every 18mos rather that every 18 years we
wouldn't have this rush to technology. Throw away cameras, throw away
lenses, throw away money, throw away mentality. We all have our
"blinders" on and Canon and Nikon are having a laugh behind our backs.

What do you think is going to happen when the curve flattens, when
everyone has the ultimate digital, when we are back to the rule of
threes (three suppliers world wide).

Whew.... glad I said that. :-)

Roger
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 8:10:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Steven M. Scharf" <scharf.steven@linkearth.net> wrote in message
news:Gv5ee.3526

> Rarely do they change rapidly. Canon has been using the EOS mount since
> 1987. Canon has been using the F mount since 1959.

Oops, obviously I meant "Nikon has been using the F mount since 1959."
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 8:16:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Roger" <leica35@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ioph7152p7coi0981u2a13qsa1k4h5n59i@4ax.com...

> These wars are great... if Nikon and Canon hadn't convinced us that we
> should now buy a new camera every 18mos rather that every 18 years we
> wouldn't have this rush to technology.

They have not convinced me of that, at least in terms of SLRs. If someone is
not moving into the professional realm, with the need for the additional
functionality that the more expensive cameras provide, then there is no
reason to change cameras every 18 months.

There are a lot of users that move to SLRs from compact digital cameras for
two reasons; wider range of focal lengths, and the elimination of shutter
lag. They may be changing cameras after only six months!

Steve
http://digitalslrinfo.com


Throw away cameras, throw away
> lenses, throw away money, throw away mentality. We all have our
> "blinders" on and Canon and Nikon are having a laugh behind our backs.
>
> What do you think is going to happen when the curve flattens, when
> everyone has the ultimate digital, when we are back to the rule of
> threes (three suppliers world wide).
>
> Whew.... glad I said that. :-)
>
> Roger
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 8:16:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Steven M. Scharf" <scharf.steven@linkearth.net> writes:
> They have not convinced me of that, at least in terms of SLRs. If
> someone is not moving into the professional realm, with the need for
> the additional functionality that the more expensive cameras
> provide, then there is no reason to change cameras every 18 months.

I think DSLR's have only very recently gotten to the point where a
nonprofessional can buy one and stay with it without feeling a need to
upgrade. Before that, it's been like the early days of P/S digicams.
I upgraded through several generations of them before buying one of
the first Canon S100's. The S100 was (for me) the first P/S digicam
whose compromises were acceptable enough that I didn't constantly want
to upgrade it, and in fact I still use one (my 2nd).
May 4, 2005 8:16:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On 04 May 2005 11:35:49 -0700, Paul Rubin
<http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid&gt; wrote:

>"Steven M. Scharf" <scharf.steven@linkearth.net> writes:
>> They have not convinced me of that, at least in terms of SLRs. If
>> someone is not moving into the professional realm, with the need for
>> the additional functionality that the more expensive cameras
>> provide, then there is no reason to change cameras every 18 months.
>
>I think DSLR's have only very recently gotten to the point where a
>nonprofessional can buy one and stay with it without feeling a need to
>upgrade. Before that, it's been like the early days of P/S digicams.
>I upgraded through several generations of them before buying one of
>the first Canon S100's. The S100 was (for me) the first P/S digicam
>whose compromises were acceptable enough that I didn't constantly want
>to upgrade it, and in fact I still use one (my 2nd).

The instant feed back of digital photography opened up a whole new
photographic vista for my wife. I was the family photographer and she
rarely took photos. With the Coolpix 950 she went to nearly thousands
per month. Perhaps a bit of an exaggeration, but she became totally
engaged in photography. On the other hand, I held out until to
something pocketable showed up with a 28mm lens equivalent. I happened
to be in my favorite dealer's shop when UPS brought him one of the
first Canon S60s. I paid for it before we opened the UPS box. I've
been using it heavily every since. On the DSLR front, I'm waiting for
the right model (still). I have a bunch of film cameras the I employ,
sometimes around the clock. Expensive, maybe - rewarding, still. I'm
going to Athens in a few hours. The s60 is going along as a P&S,
strobe, backup and WA/Tele complement to a Leica M6 w/ 35mm and 50mm
lenses.

It will be a nice compact kit and should cover the bases for my kind
of photography. If the "next" DSLR has a pro-like VF with 6-8 MP
sensor, with low digital noise for available light situations, I'm
probably in for the long haul. An alternative would be a significant
price drop on the D2Hs. The D100 replacement might also be in the mix,
but my DSLR killer requirement is the VF.

Most of my photography has to do with low light and the VF coverage,
organization and brightness in low light is an essential part of the
DSLR for me.

I'm wondering if we are just a generation or so away from the knee of
the curve for features, acceptable low-digital noise and the things
that make the DSLR a more of a permanent choice. Once that hits, the
changeover should be slowed. One area that I see that could still
drive the market is for the P&S (or integrated camera) market to get
re-energized around quality of optics. The pixel count and feature
content is IMO adequate right now.

Then it will be interesting to see what will drive the market to
re-buy new cameras. For the film analog, the Nikon F6 was a startling
new introduction with some notable capabilities. However, I think it's
resulting in the dumping of affordable F5s on the market has resulted
in a lot of folks deciding the generation n-1 is perfectly adequate,
possible even the epitome of excellence, and that stretching
financially to the final polished model is not necessary.

Anyway the digressing is fun.

Regards,
Roger
May 4, 2005 8:39:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Steven M. Scharf" <scharf.steven@linkearth.net> wrote in message
news:Gv5ee.3526$pe3.2108@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "Roy" <royphoty@iona-guesthouse.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:K74ee.13402$l37.3941@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
>> "Tim" <tbewer@mXn.rYr.cZom> wrote in message
>> news:Hovde.34358$215.9598@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>> > Does anyone know if Nikon has a camera in the works to compete with the
>> > Digital Rebel XT? If so, any word on when?
>> >
>>
>> I said get the Blinkers Off.
>
> It's blinders, not blinkers, and you definitely have them on.
>
>> To say that I should only consider Canon because it has " wider breadth
>> of
>> product now" is taking a very "Blinkered" look. Things change, and
> rapidly
>> sometimes.
>
> Rarely do they change rapidly. Canon has been using the EOS mount since
> 1987. Canon has been using the F mount since 1959. Neither show any signs
> of
> making a wholesale change to their mount. While some Nikon lenses don't
> work
> on their more recent cameras, most do.
>
>> Buy the Camera you want to use now, and enjoy using it until you outgrow
> its
>> capabilities.
>
> Buy the camera you want to use now, but when making the decision on what
> you
> want to use, keep in mind where you may want to be in the next 5 years,
> and
> buy into a system that provides that capability, rather than hoping the
> manufacturer of what you buy may come out with an upgrade path later. Both
> Canon and Nikon offer an upgrade path to prosumer and professional. If you
> have aspirations to move up, these are the only two systems to consider.
>
>> There is no kind of guarantee that any system will still be compatible in
> 2
>> or 5 years time. If you don't understand that then you really are very
>> shortsighted, as well as wearing blinkers.
>
> If history is any indicator, you are 100% incorrect. Read, study, learn.
>
> Steve
> http://digitalslrinfo.com
>
>
Yea.

Go tell that to Contax users. Remember them? Real Professional Cameras at
real Professional prices. Leica??

"Change is the Norm"

I very carefully have not said what camera, or what make I use.

What I object to is people who argue that Brand A is better than Brand B
because A has this or B has that, and that anyone who uses the opposing
brand is somehow not as intelligent.

There also seems to be a certain number who delight in pointing out apparent
weaknesses in the other Brands product Portfolio. They seem to think they
are responsible for the other Brands imminent demise, and rejoice in it.

Who do they think they are? The Marketing Directors for Nikon or Canon?

They are just Customers, and are as likely to end up with incompatible bits
and pieces as anyone else.

Hence, my argument to choose your Camera for what you want it to do, now
and in the immediate future.

In spite of what you state as a fact, the history of this hobby is littered
with obsolete Brands and Outdated Systems. Both Canon and Nikon have their
fair share of unusable, but perfectly sound, equipment gathering dust in
their customers cupboards. I know, I have got some of it.

" There is none so blind as those who will not see ".

Roy G
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 10:05:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Roy" <royphoty@iona-guesthouse.co.uk> wrote in message
news:aV6ee.26684$p06.26395@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...

> Hence, my argument to choose your Camera for what you want it to do, now
> and in the immediate future.

This is okay advice when you're looking at point and shoot cameras, or
automobiles, but it's extremely short-sighted when you are looking at
digital SLRs because with an SLR you're also buying complementary equipments
such as lenses and flashes. Therefore it makes sense to look at not only
what your immediate needs are, but where you may want to be in a few years,
as your budget and skills increase.

I didn't realize that not everyone realized this, since it's just common
sense. I added a section to my web site explaining this.

Steve
http://digitalslrinfo.com
Anonymous
May 6, 2005 2:30:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Whatevah" <jerry@whatevah.com> wrote in message
news:c9wde.20030$lZ.7701@trnddc04...
>
> the D70 isn't quite on the same level as the Rebel XT, or the 20D. It
> tried to slip in between the Rebel and the 10D, but lost.
>

So selling over a million of them in a year is losing?
Anonymous
May 6, 2005 7:54:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Roger" <leica35@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vn6i711kbopic5dedi8iklj9jrrqsicmcn@4ax.com...

> It will be a nice compact kit and should cover the bases for my kind
> of photography. If the "next" DSLR has a pro-like VF with 6-8 MP
> sensor, with low digital noise for available light situations, I'm
> probably in for the long haul. An alternative would be a significant
> price drop on the D2Hs. The D100 replacement might also be in the mix,
> but my DSLR killer requirement is the VF.

It'll be interesting to see the D100 replacement. What about a D100+VG,
doesn't meet your VF requirements? For the low light and low noise, you're
going to have to have larger pixels. If you want larger pixels, and 8
megapixel resolution, you will have to go with a larger sensor, since as
resolution increases the pixels size shrinks, and noise and low-light
capability worsen.

The D100 replacement will likely be 8 megapixel, but I don't think either
Nikon or Canon are going to try to go to higher resolution than 8 megapixels
with their current size sensors, especially after the noise issues in the
D2x.
Anonymous
May 6, 2005 8:18:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Steven M. Scharf wrote:
>
> The D100 replacement will likely be 8 megapixel, but I don't think either
> Nikon or Canon are going to try to go to higher resolution than 8 megapixels
> with their current size sensors, especially after the noise issues in the
> D2x.


What noise issues in the D2x?



--
Paul Furman
http://www.edgehill.net/1
san francisco native plants
May 7, 2005 12:33:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Mon, 02 May 2005 19:42:31 GMT, "Tim" <tbewer@mXn.rYr.cZom> wrote:

>Does anyone know if Nikon has a camera in the works to compete with the
>Digital Rebel XT? If so, any word on when?
>
Troll.
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 8:51:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Paul Furman" <paul-@-edgehill.net> wrote in message
news:MvKdnXT6X4XOZubfRVn-1A@speakeasy.net...
> Steven M. Scharf wrote:
> >
> > The D100 replacement will likely be 8 megapixel, but I don't think
either
> > Nikon or Canon are going to try to go to higher resolution than 8
megapixels
> > with their current size sensors, especially after the noise issues in
the
> > D2x.
>
>
> What noise issues in the D2x?

Higher levels of noise at >ISO 400 than are present in the Canon 20D, 1D
Mark II, and 1Ds Mark II. At ISO 400 and below, there are no issues.

The noise levels are due to the extremely small pixel size.
!