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batteries, accomodate both

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Anonymous
May 3, 2005 1:10:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Given the way modern cameras process their battery voltages
there is no reason why, (space savings aside), a
mfgr can't allow for both AA cells, my fav, and
Li batteries. It appears the Li battery is a rectangle.
Put a couple arcs in compartment and AAs should slide right
in. Common, small appliance, regulation devices used today
wouldn't even notice the difference. Charging is another
matter I think. I wonder if it would be a marketing plus.
"Camera accepts both ...."
Cost would be an issue with the cheapest units, but I wonder
if it would blip on a $500 camera?

More about : batteries accomodate

Anonymous
May 3, 2005 3:18:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

hfs2@yahoo.com writes:
> Given the way modern cameras process their battery voltages
> there is no reason why, (space savings aside), a
> mfgr can't allow for both AA cells, my fav, and
> Li batteries. It appears the Li battery is a rectangle.

Space is a significant issue in smaller cameras. Imagine a cellular
phone that used AA's. I do like AA cameras, but they tend to be
bigger than small li ion cameras.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 3:33:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Yes, I think the total size of my wife's cell phone
is that of 2 AAs :-)

Paul Rubin wrote:
> hfs2@yahoo.com writes:
> > Given the way modern cameras process their battery voltages
> > there is no reason why, (space savings aside), a
> > mfgr can't allow for both AA cells, my fav, and
> > Li batteries. It appears the Li battery is a rectangle.
>
> Space is a significant issue in smaller cameras. Imagine a cellular
> phone that used AA's. I do like AA cameras, but they tend to be
> bigger than small li ion cameras.
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Anonymous
May 3, 2005 9:17:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I don't know just how significant that is. I calculated a kodak li to
two AAs. I got about
a 25-30% increase in available energy for the li battery used. These
ratios everyone
talks about never seem to accomodate the fact that the batteries are
smaller, which
is the whole point. Yah, you get a little more. I'd say the biggest
deal is the fact they'll
sit on the shelf for years - some people think that's important.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 10:01:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

hfs2@yahoo.com wrote:
> Given the way modern cameras process their battery voltages
> there is no reason why, (space savings aside), a
> mfgr can't allow for both AA cells, my fav, and
> Li batteries. It appears the Li battery is a rectangle.
> Put a couple arcs in compartment and AAs should slide right
> in. Common, small appliance, regulation devices used today
> wouldn't even notice the difference. Charging is another
> matter I think. I wonder if it would be a marketing plus.
> "Camera accepts both ...."
> Cost would be an issue with the cheapest units, but I wonder
> if it would blip on a $500 camera?

My Canon 20D with battery grip handles three different battery
configurations.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 10:01:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Joseph Meehan" <sligojoe_Spamno@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:l0Pde.2170$Q.48@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> hfs2@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Given the way modern cameras process their battery voltages
>> there is no reason why, (space savings aside), a
>> mfgr can't allow for both AA cells, my fav, and
>> Li batteries. It appears the Li battery is a rectangle.
>> Put a couple arcs in compartment and AAs should slide right
>> in. Common, small appliance, regulation devices used today
>> wouldn't even notice the difference. Charging is another
>> matter I think. I wonder if it would be a marketing plus.
>> "Camera accepts both ...."
>> Cost would be an issue with the cheapest units, but I wonder
>> if it would blip on a $500 camera?
>
> My Canon 20D with battery grip handles three different battery
> configurations.
>
> --
> Joseph Meehan
>
> Dia duit
>
Three? Are you counting being able to use one BP-511 as one configuration,
and using two as a separate one?

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 10:42:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

<hfs2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1115136636.411254.183100@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Given the way modern cameras process their battery voltages
> there is no reason why, (space savings aside), a
> mfgr can't allow for both AA cells, my fav, and
> Li batteries. It appears the Li battery is a rectangle.
> Put a couple arcs in compartment and AAs should slide right
> in. Common, small appliance, regulation devices used today
> wouldn't even notice the difference. Charging is another
> matter I think. I wonder if it would be a marketing plus.
> "Camera accepts both ...."
> Cost would be an issue with the cheapest units, but I wonder
> if it would blip on a $500 camera?

On smaller cameras, AAs are problematic because of both their size, and
their power/weight ratio. SLRcameras often have battery grips that can take
AAs or Li-Ions. Some AA powered cameras can use RCR-V3 rechargeable
lithium-ion batteries in place of the AA cells.

The biggest problem I've found with NiMH AA cells is that they have too high
of a self-discharge rate, so a camera that isn't used frequently, often has
dead batteries when you want to use it.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 10:42:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Tue, 03 May 2005 18:42:00 GMT, "Steven M. Scharf"
<scharf.steven@linkearth.net> wrote in
news:YBPde.3144$pe3.2681@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:

> The biggest problem I've found with NiMH AA cells is that they have
> too high of a self-discharge rate, so a camera that isn't used
> frequently, often has dead batteries when you want to use it.

I have seen this comment many many times, yet my basic point
and shoot Olympus goes about 3 or 4 months on the same AA NiMH cells
between charges. I have yet to have the camera fail on me because
of lack of power, and usually pull the batteries before they're
actually dead. I run them down in some other appliance and then
re-charge. The spare alkalines I carry in case of dead NiMHs
have never been used.

Just a month or so ago I took the camera with its 3 month
or so old charge batteries out for a night of taking shots
with the flash. It was a bit slow to recharge the flash at
the end of the night, but still managed to get 65 or more
shots taken with lots of life left.

I think the capability of NiMH batteries (good ones) to
hold a charge are subject to both the conditioning they
get in the first few cycles, and to the loads they experience.


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Anonymous
May 3, 2005 10:42:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Tue, 03 May 2005 18:42:00 GMT, Steven M. Scharf wrote:

> On smaller cameras, AAs are problematic because of both their size, and
> their power/weight ratio. SLRcameras often have battery grips that can take
> AAs or Li-Ions. Some AA powered cameras can use RCR-V3 rechargeable
> lithium-ion batteries in place of the AA cells.

Most small cameras are larger than the old Palm III PDA. Its
current requirements were so low that two AAA alkalines were good
for 40 to 50 hours of use. But a few years later, another PDA, the
HandEra 300, had two card slots (CF and SD), as well as taking 4 AAA
cells. It was exactly the same size as the Palm III series PDAs.
And if you preferred, the 4 AAAs could be replaced in the same space
with a rechargeable Lithium battery. Cameras require more power
than those old PDAs, but even 4 AAAs don't take up much space, as
shown by the Handera 330. And they provide as much power as two AAs
which can provide long life in recent cameras. There's even at
least one camera (one of the Ricoh Caplios) that comes with a
rechargeable lithium battery, but can be replaced by a pair of AAs
which give impressive life, whether alkaline or NiMH.


> The biggest problem I've found with NiMH AA cells is that they have
> too high of a self-discharge rate, so a camera that isn't used frequently,
> often has dead batteries when you want to use it.

That's true, especially for older cameras that for practical
reasons can only use NiMH batteries. But newer ones (such as my
Fuji) is able to take more than several hundred pictures with its AA
batteries (4), whether alkaline or NiMH batteries are used. (That's
with heavy use of the flash and LCD display, btw). An optional
rechargeable lithium replacement for the 4 AAs (similar to what was
done with the Handera) would be the ideal all-around solution for
many people. Fantastically long life, no self-discharge worries,
operability in frigid weather, and the camera would still be
compatible with widely available AAs in emergencies.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 11:59:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Skip M wrote:
> "Joseph Meehan" <sligojoe_Spamno@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:l0Pde.2170$Q.48@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
>
>>hfs2@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>>Given the way modern cameras process their battery voltages
>>>there is no reason why, (space savings aside), a
>>>mfgr can't allow for both AA cells, my fav, and
>>>Li batteries. It appears the Li battery is a rectangle.
>>>Put a couple arcs in compartment and AAs should slide right
>>>in. Common, small appliance, regulation devices used today
>>>wouldn't even notice the difference. Charging is another
>>>matter I think. I wonder if it would be a marketing plus.
>>>"Camera accepts both ...."
>>>Cost would be an issue with the cheapest units, but I wonder
>>>if it would blip on a $500 camera?
>>
>> My Canon 20D with battery grip handles three different battery
>>configurations.
>>
>>--
>>Joseph Meehan
>>
>>Dia duit
>>
>
> Three? Are you counting being able to use one BP-511 as one configuration,
> and using two as a separate one?
>
I can use either two lithium AA cells, or an RCRV3 in my camera. Or, of
course, NIMH AA cells.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 1:37:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

And more expensive, too.

--
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
major in electrical engineering, freelance electrician
FH von Iraklion-Kreta, freiberuflicher Elektriker
dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr
? "Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid&gt; ?????? ??? ??????
news:7x3bt4jhqu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> hfs2@yahoo.com writes:
> > Given the way modern cameras process their battery voltages
> > there is no reason why, (space savings aside), a
> > mfgr can't allow for both AA cells, my fav, and
> > Li batteries. It appears the Li battery is a rectangle.
>
> Space is a significant issue in smaller cameras. Imagine a cellular
> phone that used AA's. I do like AA cameras, but they tend to be
> bigger than small li ion cameras.
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 1:38:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

And the battery of mine is roughly 1/4 the size of a matchbox, but it runs
it for 10 days...

--
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
major in electrical engineering, freelance electrician
FH von Iraklion-Kreta, freiberuflicher Elektriker
dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr
? <hfs2@yahoo.com> ?????? ??? ??????
news:1115145209.663524.58680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Yes, I think the total size of my wife's cell phone
> is that of 2 AAs :-)
>
> Paul Rubin wrote:
> > hfs2@yahoo.com writes:
> > > Given the way modern cameras process their battery voltages
> > > there is no reason why, (space savings aside), a
> > > mfgr can't allow for both AA cells, my fav, and
> > > Li batteries. It appears the Li battery is a rectangle.
> >
> > Space is a significant issue in smaller cameras. Imagine a cellular
> > phone that used AA's. I do like AA cameras, but they tend to be
> > bigger than small li ion cameras.
>
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 3:53:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Skip M wrote:
> "Joseph Meehan" <sligojoe_Spamno@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:l0Pde.2170$Q.48@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
>> hfs2@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> Given the way modern cameras process their battery voltages
>>> there is no reason why, (space savings aside), a
>>> mfgr can't allow for both AA cells, my fav, and
>>> Li batteries. It appears the Li battery is a rectangle.
>>> Put a couple arcs in compartment and AAs should slide right
>>> in. Common, small appliance, regulation devices used today
>>> wouldn't even notice the difference. Charging is another
>>> matter I think. I wonder if it would be a marketing plus.
>>> "Camera accepts both ...."
>>> Cost would be an issue with the cheapest units, but I wonder
>>> if it would blip on a $500 camera?
>>
>> My Canon 20D with battery grip handles three different battery
>> configurations.
>>
>> --
>> Joseph Meehan
>>
>> Dia duit
>>
> Three? Are you counting being able to use one BP-511 as one
> configuration, and using two as a separate one?

Yes. That's the only way I can think of to get to three. I guess I
could count zinc-carbon batteries as #4 :-)

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 3:53:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Joseph Meehan" <sligojoe_Spamno@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:U9Ude.3911$9n1.871@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> Skip M wrote:
>> "Joseph Meehan" <sligojoe_Spamno@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:l0Pde.2170$Q.48@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
>>>
>>> My Canon 20D with battery grip handles three different battery
>>> configurations.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Joseph Meehan
>>>
>>> Dia duit
>>>
>> Three? Are you counting being able to use one BP-511 as one
>> configuration, and using two as a separate one?
>
> Yes. That's the only way I can think of to get to three. I guess I
> could count zinc-carbon batteries as #4 :-)
>
> --
> Joseph Meehan
>
> Dia duit
>
I was just wondering if I was missing something... ;-)

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
!