Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

I recently bought a SIM card reading thinking it would be a good idea
to back up all of my contacts. I live in Ireland and at the moment am
on o2. When I got home it didn't transfer any of the information. When
I went back to the shop the sales assistant tried the device (the SIM
card reader) with my SIM card and it didn't work. He then tried it
with his SIM card and it worked. He is with another network called
Meteor. He told me that I needed to get the SIM card unlocked. I went
back to my network O2 and asked them to unlock the SIM card. They gave
me an unlock code. I entered it and in fact it unlocked the phone.
Nokia 3510i I still couldn't read the SIM card with the SIM card
reader. I tried other SIM cards; a SIM card that is on the vodaphone
network here in Ireland, that worked. I even tried an old French SIM
card that I had and it read that as well. It seems to be reading
everyone else SIM cards except mine. However, it did have a problem
reading another Meteor SIM card. It only read the numbers that
originally came with the phone. Numbers for the answering machine and
the basic information numbers. From the information given above does
anybody know if my problem is with the SIM card reader or the SIM card
and ultimately is there a solution to this problem? Is it possible to
lock SIM cards? The only thing I can think of that might make my SIM
card different is that I transferred my number from another network.
That is to say I used to be with Vodaphone, I transferred over to O2
but kept my vodaphone number. I have been traipsing around for the
last two weeks over this. Any help would be greately appreciated.
Thanks

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:51:02 -0700, zephyr wrote:

> It seems to be reading
> everyone else SIM cards except mine. However, it did have a problem
> reading another Meteor SIM card.

It is possible that the software for your SIM card reader can only decrypt
COMP128-1 and that your SIM card is protected by COMP128-2.

COMP128-3 is available now, but I do not know if any carriers are actually
using it.

Will
Webmaster: http://www.gsmsecurity.com

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

Hi,

You can read a sim with independecy of the autentication HASH function. This
only is important if you can clone the card (extract the Ki). The Collission
system of search only works in COMP128 v1.

You also can know easy if you SIM and Operator works in COMP128 v3. You only
need to know one param of the SIM: the Kc. You can check the last 10 bits of
this param. If they are 0 the card don´t work in COMP128 v3.

Regards,
Sir Graham
http://www.endorasoft.com
http://www.endorasoft.com/forum



"Will Spencer" <will.spencer@gsmsecurity.com> escribió en el mensaje
newsan.2004.04.13.16.49.15.840000@gsmsecurity.com...
> On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:51:02 -0700, zephyr wrote:
>
> > It seems to be reading
> > everyone else SIM cards except mine. However, it did have a problem
> > reading another Meteor SIM card.
>
> It is possible that the software for your SIM card reader can only decrypt
> COMP128-1 and that your SIM card is protected by COMP128-2.
>
> COMP128-3 is available now, but I do not know if any carriers are actually
> using it.
>
> Will
> Webmaster: http://www.gsmsecurity.com
>

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

"Sir Graham" <s_graham@terra.es> wrote in message news:<c5irgm$218tq$1@ID-200445.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> Hi,
>
> You can read a sim with independecy of the autentication HASH function. This
> only is important if you can clone the card (extract the Ki). The Collission
> system of search only works in COMP128 v1.
>
> You also can know easy if you SIM and Operator works in COMP128 v3. You only
> need to know one param of the SIM: the Kc. You can check the last 10 bits of
> this param. If they are 0 the card don´t work in COMP128 v3.
>
> Regards,
> Sir Graham
> http://www.endorasoft.com
> http://www.endorasoft.com/forum
>
>
>
> "Will Spencer" <will.spencer@gsmsecurity.com> escribió en el mensaje
> newsan.2004.04.13.16.49.15.840000@gsmsecurity.com...
> > On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:51:02 -0700, zephyr wrote:
> >
> > > It seems to be reading
> > > everyone else SIM cards except mine. However, it did have a problem
> > > reading another Meteor SIM card.
> >
> > It is possible that the software for your SIM card reader can only decrypt
> > COMP128-1 and that your SIM card is protected by COMP128-2.
> >
> > COMP128-3 is available now, but I do not know if any carriers are actually
> > using it.
> >
> > Will
> > Webmaster: http://www.gsmsecurity.com
> >
Mmm thanks but I need a bit of clarification

Is 128 comp 1 the technology (encryption I think) of the SIM card?

I presume that 128 comp 1 is an older version than 2 and 3

Does this mean that the SIM card reader is O.K. for older SIM cards?

If I were to give it to someone would it be O.K. if his or her SIM
card were an old one.

Can you tell form the number on the SIM card what version it is? 128
comp 1 or 128 comp 2 etc I think this is what Sir Graham was talking
about

Is it possible to do something to the SIM card to make it readable in
this SIM card reader? I.E get a new SIM card. I know that I can, with
my network provider, the first one is free, but would I have to ask
for a special one? Again, I think this is what Sir Graham was talking
about?

If I was to buy a new one (SIM card reader) is it possible to tell
what kind of SIM cards it reads and if it reads mine (without actually
putting the SIM card into the machine in the shop)

Can the Networks actually lock a SIM card?

Could other mobile phones have a problem reading my contacts if they
are only made to decrypt comp-1?

Can I still use my SIM card on other unlocked mobiles? In my little
experiments reading different SIM cards and putting my SIM card into
other mobile phones. I did have an interesting experience, I could
make calls with another unlocked mobile phone on my network and my
number was showing up on the presentation of number when I made a
phone call but the unlocked phone couldnt read my contacts. Is this
technically possible? Does this mean it is possible to use a SIM card
on another unlocked mobile phone without them being able to read some
of the information on the SIM card?

Can I solve this problem or do I have to buy another SIM card reader,
which reads comp 2?


Sorry, about all of the extra questions but when trying to find
meaningful answers extra questions are always raised. I'd really
appreciate it if you could answer some of these. By the way I went to
the gsm security page and downloaded cryptainer. That looks like a
really good idea.

Thanks in advance

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

> Mmm thanks but I need a bit of clarification
>
> Is 128 comp 1 the technology (encryption I think) of the SIM card?
>

The autentification algorithm. The card check if the card is "original" or
not.


> I presume that 128 comp 1 is an older version than 2 and 3

Yes. Correct.

>
> Does this mean that the SIM card reader is O.K. for older SIM cards?

You can read all cards. The problem is extract a especial key called Ki (Key
id). With this key and other param called IMSI
you can clone the SIM. Why clone the SIM?
- To use the SIM in more sites (card, home, ect...)
- To put more than one number in one SIM.
- ect...


>
> If I were to give it to someone would it be O.K. if his or her SIM
> card were an old one.
> Can you tell form the number on the SIM card what version it is? 128
> comp 1 or 128 comp 2 etc I think this is what Sir Graham was talking
> about

Nop. The ICCID only is a administrative number. You also can to know the HLR
(home location register)
but ins´t to now if the card have COMP128 1,2 or 3.

To know this need a some software that search the Ki by collisions and can
extract this number.
(example XSim, this software are free and you can download of EndoraSoft:
http://www.endorasoft.com
http://www.endorasoft.com/download/xsim.zip

>
> Is it possible to do something to the SIM card to make it readable in
> this SIM card reader?

Yes. of course.

I.E get a new SIM card. I know that I can, with
> my network provider, the first one is free, but would I have to ask
> for a special one? Again, I think this is what Sir Graham was talking
> about?
>

You need to clone a card with COMP128 v1 and one distribuitor that can
"activate" this card in you operator.

> If I was to buy a new one (SIM card reader) is it possible to tell
> what kind of SIM cards it reads and if it reads mine (without actually
> putting the SIM card into the machine in the shop)

Nop. Afraid this is not possible. Only with a software can extract the KI of
sim you ca know this.
However, We (in EndoraSoft) are working to extract the Ki in ALL CARD.

>
> Can the Networks actually lock a SIM card?

¿? I don´t understand this question. What do you mean?

>
> Could other mobile phones have a problem reading my contacts if they
> are only made to decrypt comp-1?

You always can read your contacts. This are independient of COMP128 v1,
2.... ect...
If you have the PIN1 of the card you can read the contacts (phonebook) and
the SMS keep
in the SIM.

To know what COMP128 have you card only is necessary if you clone ALL SIM.
If Clone all SIM you have a copy operative of this SIM.

>
> Can I still use my SIM card on other unlocked mobiles?

Yes. And If you use a clone SIM you also can use your SIM in LOCK phones.
The clone can be hack this protection in some terminals (NOKIA or
Ericcsson).

>In my little> experiments reading different SIM cards and putting my SIM
card into
> other mobile phones. I did have an interesting experience, I could
> make calls with another unlocked mobile phone on my network and my
> number was showing up on the presentation of number when I made a
> phone call but the unlocked phone couldnt read my contacts. Is this
> technically possible? Does this mean it is possible to use a SIM card
> on another unlocked mobile phone without them being able to read some
> of the information on the SIM card?

Yes. It´s possible in teory you can.

>
> Can I solve this problem or do I have to buy another SIM card reader,
> which reads comp 2?
>

No. I think you need a Phoenix reader. This reader is more compatible with
all
software to read the SIM.

>
> Sorry, about all of the extra questions but when trying to find
> meaningful answers extra questions are always raised. I'd really
> appreciate it if you could answer some of these. By the way I went to
> the gsm security page and downloaded cryptainer. That looks like a
> really good idea.

If you hace more questions you can use the email of the endorasoft web page.
If I know the answer I send this.

Best Regards,.
Sir Graham.
http://www.endorasoft.com

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

"Sir Graham" <s_graham@terra.es> wrote in message news:<c5lfjt$31kc4$1@ID-200445.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> > Mmm thanks but I need a bit of clarification
> >
> > Is 128 comp 1 the technology (encryption I think) of the SIM card?
> >
>
> The autentification algorithm. The card check if the card is "original" or
> not.
>
>
> > I presume that 128 comp 1 is an older version than 2 and 3
>
> Yes. Correct.
>
> >
> > Does this mean that the SIM card reader is O.K. for older SIM cards?
>
> You can read all cards. The problem is extract a especial key called Ki (Key
> id). With this key and other param called IMSI
> you can clone the SIM. Why clone the SIM?
> - To use the SIM in more sites (card, home, ect...)
> - To put more than one number in one SIM.
> - ect...
>
>
> >
> > If I were to give it to someone would it be O.K. if his or her SIM
> > card were an old one.
> > Can you tell form the number on the SIM card what version it is? 128
> > comp 1 or 128 comp 2 etc I think this is what Sir Graham was talking
> > about
>
> Nop. The ICCID only is a administrative number. You also can to know the HLR
> (home location register)
> but ins´t to now if the card have COMP128 1,2 or 3.
>
> To know this need a some software that search the Ki by collisions and can
> extract this number.
> (example XSim, this software are free and you can download of EndoraSoft:
> http://www.endorasoft.com
> http://www.endorasoft.com/download/xsim.zip
>
> >
> > Is it possible to do something to the SIM card to make it readable in
> > this SIM card reader?
>
> Yes. of course.
>
> I.E get a new SIM card. I know that I can, with
> > my network provider, the first one is free, but would I have to ask
> > for a special one? Again, I think this is what Sir Graham was talking
> > about?
> >
>
> You need to clone a card with COMP128 v1 and one distribuitor that can
> "activate" this card in you operator.
>
> > If I was to buy a new one (SIM card reader) is it possible to tell
> > what kind of SIM cards it reads and if it reads mine (without actually
> > putting the SIM card into the machine in the shop)
>
> Nop. Afraid this is not possible. Only with a software can extract the KI of
> sim you ca know this.
> However, We (in EndoraSoft) are working to extract the Ki in ALL CARD.
>
> >
> > Can the Networks actually lock a SIM card?
>
> ¿? I don´t understand this question. What do you mean?
>
> >
> > Could other mobile phones have a problem reading my contacts if they
> > are only made to decrypt comp-1?
>
> You always can read your contacts. This are independient of COMP128 v1,
> 2.... ect...
> If you have the PIN1 of the card you can read the contacts (phonebook) and
> the SMS keep
> in the SIM.
>
> To know what COMP128 have you card only is necessary if you clone ALL SIM.
> If Clone all SIM you have a copy operative of this SIM.
>
> >
> > Can I still use my SIM card on other unlocked mobiles?
>
> Yes. And If you use a clone SIM you also can use your SIM in LOCK phones.
> The clone can be hack this protection in some terminals (NOKIA or
> Ericcsson).
>
> >In my little> experiments reading different SIM cards and putting my SIM
> card into
> > other mobile phones. I did have an interesting experience, I could
> > make calls with another unlocked mobile phone on my network and my
> > number was showing up on the presentation of number when I made a
> > phone call but the unlocked phone couldnt read my contacts. Is this
> > technically possible? Does this mean it is possible to use a SIM card
> > on another unlocked mobile phone without them being able to read some
> > of the information on the SIM card?
>
> Yes. It´s possible in teory you can.
>
> >
> > Can I solve this problem or do I have to buy another SIM card reader,
> > which reads comp 2?
> >
>
> No. I think you need a Phoenix reader. This reader is more compatible with
> all
> software to read the SIM.
>
> >
> > Sorry, about all of the extra questions but when trying to find
> > meaningful answers extra questions are always raised. I'd really
> > appreciate it if you could answer some of these. By the way I went to
> > the gsm security page and downloaded cryptainer. That looks like a
> > really good idea.
>
> If you hace more questions you can use the email of the endorasoft web page.
> If I know the answer I send this.
>
> Best Regards,.
> Sir Graham.
> http://www.endorasoft.com

Thank you very much for all of this information. Now, I would like to
extract the K id and the clone the card with less encryption. This
sounds very technical. Even with the K id I wouldnt know what to do
with it. I think you have given me enough information to know what to
look for. With the aid of your site I should be able to find out more
about this. Is there an English version to it? I am going away on a
long weekend tomorrow (Ill be going to France maybe they sell Phoenix
Sim card readers there) I may or may not have access to a computer so
it will probably be next week before I can check this out properly and
get back to you. Thanks again.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

Hi.

> Thank you very much for all of this information. Now, I would like to
> extract the K id and the clone the card with less encryption. This
> sounds very technical.

With XSim Is easy. It have a good interface.

>Even with the K id I wouldnt know what to do
> with it. I think you have given me enough information to know what to
> look for.

Clone the SIM.

>With the aid of your site I should be able to find out more
> about this. Is there an English version to it?

The XSim 0.8a (the actual) have Spanish and English support. The Web page
sorry only is in Spanish.
In the forum however you can put the dudes in english also.

>I am going away on a
> long weekend tomorrow (Ill be going to France maybe they sell Phoenix
> Sim card readers there)

good look. The Phoenix is easy to find.

>I may or may not have access to a computer so
>> it will probably be next week before I can check this out properly and
> get back to you. Thanks again.

Ok. See you.

Regards,
Sir Graham
http:\\www.endorasoft.com
http:\\www.endorasoft.com\forum
http:\\www.endorasoft.com\download\xsim.zip