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2600k Z68 HD6950 16GB 750W get now or wait for ivy release?

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December 14, 2011 12:57:14 PM

Approximate Purchase Date: This week

Budget Range: £500 bare. £1.2k with upgrades (final machine)

System Usage from Most to Least Important: Everything (video/photo editing, gaming, browsing, movies ;) , work(note its in order of most to least important xD))

Parts Not Required: keyboard, mouse, monitor, speakers, OS, hdds, dvd drive, memory card reader, wifi adapter)

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: amazon.co.uk - ebuyer.com - ebay.co.uk - aria.co.uk - overclockers.net

Country: England

Parts Preferences: Intel CPU, ATI GPU

Overclocking: In the future with upgrades such as closed system water cooling

SLI or Crossfire: In the future

Monitor Resolution: 1920x1080

Additional Comments: Would like a silent PC when working or listening to music, don't mind about intensive task noise levels

PARTS:
i7 2600K
£230
Asus Maximus IV Gene-Z Z68
£145
XFX 750W XXX Edition 80+ Silver Semi-Modular Power Supply PSU
£90
Corsair CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9 8GB 1600MHz CL9 DDR3 Vengeance Memory Two Module Kit
£32

TOTAL: £500

UPGRADES:
Corsair Force Series 3 240GB SATA 6Gb/s SSD
£280
MSI ATI Radeon HD 6950 OC Twin FrozR III Power Edition 2048MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card [R6950TWINFROZRIIIPE/OC]
£225
Corsair H70 CPU water cooler
£70
Fractal R3 ATX silent PC case
£75
+more RAM

TOTAL: £1180

Hi Guys,
I'm getting my first build after having a slow laptop.
I plan on getting these parts and the upgrades in the near future (before March)
I will start using it straight away so i'm not sure if i want to wait until ivy bridge releases so these parts drop price.
I don't think they will drop that much and its a monster build for a first timer.

What do you guys think about overclocking the 2600k with this mobo, its phase 8 regulator and a good PSU. my housemate makes me paranoid about over volting but if i got a cpu water cooler i reckon 1.45v should be safe for a few years not 24/7 use.
is it possible to overclock on stock fan? my case is kinda crap and this is matx so its kinda tight but then there is no gpu yet.
Is a £145 mobo a good choice or should i go for something cheaper? cheaper ones arent good for overclocking.
I want to get it to about 4ghz on stock and 5ghz with water cooling.
I also want to overclock the RAM. CL8 1866. do you think this ram is capable or will it cook like a turkey? haha

Thanks for your time guys
December 14, 2011 1:41:35 PM

CPU: i7-2600k is a good choice, especially since your build will primarily be used for video editing.

Motherboard: Really wouldn't choose an MATX motherboard by choice. Something like ASRock Extreme4 Gen3 comes in at the same price I think would be better.

RAM: If you buy 1866 MHz RAM it should be fine, buying 1600MHz with the intention of over-clocking however, i'm not sure. Generally most builds wont really benefit from anything more than 1600MHz CL9 though. This tends to be the best value for money, and 8GB of RAM is more than enough in almost all situations.

PSU: Solid PSU, i own one myself with a single GTX 560Ti currently (plan to buy a second in the future).

Cooler: 5GHz on a H70 i think is VERY VERY optimistic, i don't think that cooler has the ability to reach this kind of over-clock while being stable and not over-heating. Your looking more at a custom water-cooling loop to reach this kind of OC.

Case: With the water-cooling in mind, Fractal R3 might not be the best choice. A case more adapted for housing some good size radiators might be a better choice.

EDIT: www.SCAN.co.uk is a good UK Supplier - highly recommend checking out their "Today Only Deals".
December 14, 2011 2:05:25 PM

I would wait
December 14, 2011 2:52:06 PM

The question "buy now vs. wait" has been going on for as long as computers have been evolving. If you need the computer now, then buy now. If you don't need it, then wait until you do need it and buy then. The 2600k is a very good processor and will probably hold its own for a long time, and if it benefits you to have it running now then that will outweigh what you miss by not waiting for the next series of processors to be released. Any equipment that you buy, whether you buy now or wait for the next release, will eventually be outdated and you will want to upgrade it. If you buy now then that just means you are closer to the future date when you can justify replacing it with something newer.
December 14, 2011 3:29:01 PM

cadder said:
The question "buy now vs. wait" has been going on for as long as computers have been evolving. If you need the computer now, then buy now. If you don't need it, then wait until you do need it and buy then. The 2600k is a very good processor and will probably hold its own for a long time, and if it benefits you to have it running now then that will outweigh what you miss by not waiting for the next series of processors to be released. Any equipment that you buy, whether you buy now or wait for the next release, will eventually be outdated and you will want to upgrade it. If you buy now then that just means you are closer to the future date when you can justify replacing it with something newer.




Touché ;) 
December 14, 2011 3:42:30 PM

AdrianPerry said:
CPU: i7-2600k is a good choice, especially since your build will primarily be used for video editing.

Motherboard: Really wouldn't choose an MATX motherboard by choice. Something like ASRock Extreme4 Gen3 comes in at the same price I think would be better.

RAM: If you buy 1866 MHz RAM it should be fine, buying 1600MHz with the intention of over-clocking however, i'm not sure. Generally most builds wont really benefit from anything more than 1600MHz CL9 though. This tends to be the best value for money, and 8GB of RAM is more than enough in almost all situations.

PSU: Solid PSU, i own one myself with a single GTX 560Ti currently (plan to buy a second in the future).

Cooler: 5GHz on a H70 i think is VERY VERY optimistic, i don't think that cooler has the ability to reach this kind of over-clock while being stable and not over-heating. Your looking more at a custom water-cooling loop to reach this kind of OC.

Case: With the water-cooling in mind, Fractal R3 might not be the best choice. A case more adapted for housing some good size radiators might be a better choice.

EDIT: www.SCAN.co.uk is a good UK Supplier - highly recommend checking out their "Today Only Deals".


Hi, thanks for all the suggestions. I like the R3, don't know anyone that has it and therefore how silent is but it looks ok for cooling.

As for the H70, i think it will easily clock 5GHz at something like 1.45v. People do this on air cooling and the H70 is way better than air cooling.

The reason i chose mATX is because my case is mATX and when i get watercooling and gpu etc i will probably upgrade case to something like the R3. Although my friend showed me an amazing Zalman case.

As for the RAM again, i think it will easily overclock, its vengeance RAM designed for it. People usually keep it at 1.5V and either change timing to CL8 or 1866mhz but not both. I would probably go for CL8

I don't like the ASRock Extreme4 Gen3 as gen3 can't be used without ivy bridge and its unlikely ivy will work on these boards but it was one of my bookmarks.
Asus is a better manufacturer. gigabyte are a close second and have lately released an amazing bios. ATX price/performance is cheaper than mATX so obv its same price but better. The board has good specs though but lacks features.
http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/P8Z6...
is its rival i'd say, industry leading phase regulation among other things.

Thanks for the info though.
I might begin purchasing tomorrow.
It's gonna be a good xmas!!!!!!!!! :pt1cable:  :bounce:  :love:  :hello: 

December 14, 2011 4:43:03 PM

To answer your questions:

1) How high you can OC a 2600K is largely dependent on the particular quality of the chip.
Most will OC to 4.0 easily. 50% will do 4.5, and 5% will get to 5.0 This is a just a buess.
It seems to be that each chip will reach it's OC limit beyond which better cooling does not help at all.
I do not favor messing with cpu voltages in order to maximize a overclock. You should be able to get 4.0 with leaving the voltage on auto.
How much more do you really need?

2) Yes, the stock cooler will allow you to OC quite well. But expect the fan to ramp up and be noisy.

3) The motherboard is good. I happen to like M-atx format. You can get some nice cases for them. The only negative is that if you have cf/sli, the top card has a real cooling problem. But, you can today get a GTX590 which is the equivalent of sli GTX570 cards. How much better might you need to be? 28nm graphics cards are due out next year which will take single cards even higher.

4) If you love the R3, get it, cases are a personal thing. I use a Silverstone TJ08E m-atx case. The 180mm intake fan is dead quiet, and provides plenty of cooling for a GTX580 and a 2600K@4.0. I used a prolimatech megahalems with a noctua fan. All fans are on low, and still the temps are low.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverstone-TJ08B--Micro-ATX-To...

5) Since you will be doing video editing, I suggest you get a 16gb ram kit up front. 64 bit enabled apps can use the ram as workspace reducing the need for hard drive i/o. Sandy bridge is insensitive to ram speeds DDR3 1333 is fine, no mote than 1600. The difference in real app performance from faster ram is on the order of 1%. Not worth paying much more.

6) A good air cooler will be about as good as the all-in-one liquid coolers, and much simpler and cheaper. A liquid cooler wants to me mounted so that the air intake is from the outside. This complicates case cooling. The H70 tests are almost always done on an open test bed where this is not an issue. And, it is not so bad if your cpu gets a bit hot under load. I prefer to let my fans stay on a constant low speed. I find it more annoying to have the fans speed up and slow down.

7) ivy bridge is supposed to be 15% faster, and probably at a similar price to today's cpu's. I fa 2600K will suit your needs today, I see little benefit in waiting.
With a Z68 motherboard, you will retain the option to change if it torns out to be even better.

8) When you get a graphics card, look for one with a direct exhaust type cooler. It directs the hot graphics air outside of the case. A card like the twin frozer does a good job on the open test bed, but in a case, it just adds to the heat the case must deal with. That heats up the gpu AND the cpu. Not good.
Here is an example of the type of card I like:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/EVGA-GeForce-Superclocked-Graph...
December 14, 2011 6:11:48 PM

geofelt said:
To answer your questions:

1) How high you can OC a 2600K is largely dependent on the particular quality of the chip.
Most will OC to 4.0 easily. 50% will do 4.5, and 5% will get to 5.0 This is a just a buess.
It seems to be that each chip will reach it's OC limit beyond which better cooling does not help at all.
I do not favor messing with cpu voltages in order to maximize a overclock. You should be able to get 4.0 with leaving the voltage on auto.
How much more do you really need?

2) Yes, the stock cooler will allow you to OC quite well. But expect the fan to ramp up and be noisy.

3) The motherboard is good. I happen to like M-atx format. You can get some nice cases for them. The only negative is that if you have cf/sli, the top card has a real cooling problem. But, you can today get a GTX590 which is the equivalent of sli GTX570 cards. How much better might you need to be? 28nm graphics cards are due out next year which will take single cards even higher.

4) If you love the R3, get it, cases are a personal thing. I use a Silverstone TJ08E m-atx case. The 180mm intake fan is dead quiet, and provides plenty of cooling for a GTX580 and a 2600K@4.0. I used a prolimatech megahalems with a noctua fan. All fans are on low, and still the temps are low.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverstone-TJ08B--Micro-ATX-To...

5) Since you will be doing video editing, I suggest you get a 16gb ram kit up front. 64 bit enabled apps can use the ram as workspace reducing the need for hard drive i/o. Sandy bridge is insensitive to ram speeds DDR3 1333 is fine, no mote than 1600. The difference in real app performance from faster ram is on the order of 1%. Not worth paying much more.

6) A good air cooler will be about as good as the all-in-one liquid coolers, and much simpler and cheaper. A liquid cooler wants to me mounted so that the air intake is from the outside. This complicates case cooling. The H70 tests are almost always done on an open test bed where this is not an issue. And, it is not so bad if your cpu gets a bit hot under load. I prefer to let my fans stay on a constant low speed. I find it more annoying to have the fans speed up and slow down.

7) ivy bridge is supposed to be 15% faster, and probably at a similar price to today's cpu's. I fa 2600K will suit your needs today, I see little benefit in waiting.
With a Z68 motherboard, you will retain the option to change if it torns out to be even better.

8) When you get a graphics card, look for one with a direct exhaust type cooler. It directs the hot graphics air outside of the case. A card like the twin frozer does a good job on the open test bed, but in a case, it just adds to the heat the case must deal with. That heats up the gpu AND the cpu. Not good.
Here is an example of the type of card I like:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/EVGA-GeForce-Superclocked-Graph...





Wow haha. thanks for the reply.
I think it's a lot more than 5% that reach 5ghz, its not really a question of will they get to it or not its more of whether they will live long at that level. I would prob stick with stock fan and my case for a while if the pc runs smooth.
I've checked out silverstone before. I really like the new fortress one but its just not very convenient. too specific.
I was thinking of getting 16gb anyway as its so cheap, £64. i think when a program is really demanding it makes a lot more difference than 1%.
I think i prefer to have tighter timings at 1600mhz anywayz. I'll keep it at 1.5v
I'll leave the cpu alone at first, i might try overclocking out of interest and if i actually notice a difference i will stick with it.
I think with the liquid cooler, even though the optimum is to have cold intake i would never mount it that way as i would never want warm air blowing on my board.
Thats just silly. I think the difference with air exiting through it wouldnt make that much difference anyway as its water cooling and its still more effective than air cooling and the whole point is to take the heat away from the board. not to take it away and then blow it back over the board.
Ivy bridge wont be much faster but more efficient, much lower TDP, will have support for gen3 and more usb3.0 etc. Im not saying i want one im just saying when its released wont the 2600k drop price then -ie a better time to buy seeing as its only a couple of months away.
I see what your saying about the gpu, i forgot about that but i dont think its worth the extra £80. I'd rather spend that on a more expensive case or additional fans :) 

Thanks for the help though.

Learn so much from one thread... haha :sol: 
December 15, 2011 10:01:41 PM

Here is a link on ram scaling
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4503/sandy-bridge-memory-...

Liquid cooling is still air cooling. Once the heat is removed from the cpu die, it goes to a radiator which has fans attached, and which extracts the heat from the cooling transport medium. In one case, it is liquid, and in another case, it is the liquid in the typical heat pipe cooler. No doubt the transfer using a liquid heat block is a bit better, but the radiator technology of both is about the same effectiveness. The best air coolers compete very well with the all-in-one coolers at a lesser cost.
In the end, though, does a few degrees make any real difference? For a competitive overclocker, yes. For most of us who are just users, I think not.

In the past, retail Intel cpu prices have not dropped like you might think when a new generation of cpu's is launched. The replacement market is not so price sensitive.
The prices of used cppu's does drop to match the current price-performance levels.
December 16, 2011 10:17:40 PM

geofelt said:
Here is a link on ram scaling
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4503/sandy-bridge-memory-...

Liquid cooling is still air cooling. Once the heat is removed from the cpu die, it goes to a radiator which has fans attached, and which extracts the heat from the cooling transport medium. In one case, it is liquid, and in another case, it is the liquid in the typical heat pipe cooler. No doubt the transfer using a liquid heat block is a bit better, but the radiator technology of both is about the same effectiveness. The best air coolers compete very well with the all-in-one coolers at a lesser cost.
In the end, though, does a few degrees make any real difference? For a competitive overclocker, yes. For most of us who are just users, I think not.

In the past, retail Intel cpu prices have not dropped like you might think when a new generation of cpu's is launched. The replacement market is not so price sensitive.
The prices of used cppu's does drop to match the current price-performance levels.



Thanks! I see what your saying about the RAM. My house mate told me the same thing.
I think i'll get liquid cooler if the stock is noisy and doesnt overclock well as i see overclocking has even more advantages as it helps RAM GTs. Liquid cooler should run at a lower RPM than air coolers. It also looks nicer in the case and more room around the motherboard.
I'll get the setup after xmas and i might get the new radeon 7000 series. the 7970 looks frikin amazing! although im not sure if you can use it to its potential on a pcie 2.0
December 17, 2011 4:23:57 AM

all-in-oneLiquid coolers are not up to the hype. Performance is remarkably similar to big air coolers, and usually noisier, and more expensive.
Here is one article on the comparison:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/h50-fort120-cogage,...

The 7970 is supposed to be a GTX580 competitor. If so, it will hardly stress pcie 2.0. No worries there.
December 18, 2011 1:51:14 PM

geofelt said:
all-in-oneLiquid coolers are not up to the hype. Performance is remarkably similar to big air coolers, and usually noisier, and more expensive.
Here is one article on the comparison:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/h50-fort120-cogage,...

The 7970 is supposed to be a GTX580 competitor. If so, it will hardly stress pcie 2.0. No worries there.


The GTX580 is a joke compared to the 7970 specs

Also that review is joke are you f***ing taking the piss?

quit wasting my time troll
!