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Maybe we should have waited before killing Terri Schiavo

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Anonymous
May 4, 2005 5:36:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote in message
news:4278ebd5$0$73632$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
> http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/11...
>

Husband was next of kin therfore husbands choice, not yours or mine.
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 5:36:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Daniel G." <Danny73@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:RdCdnRQlp_xxmuTfRVn-ow@wideopenwest.com...

>> http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/11...

> Husband was next of kin therfore husbands choice, not yours or mine.

So any husband can just decide to kill his wife? I mean, he's the next of
kin, no?
Anonymous
May 5, 2005 3:36:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote in message
news:4279147c$0$73668$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
> "Daniel G." <Danny73@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:RdCdnRQlp_xxmuTfRVn-ow@wideopenwest.com...
>
>>> http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/11...
>
>> Husband was next of kin therfore husbands choice, not yours or mine.
>
> So any husband can just decide to kill his wife? I mean, he's the next of
> kin, no?
>

Under the circumstances of Terri Schiavo, yes, and yes.
Anonymous
May 5, 2005 5:48:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Daniel G." <Danny73@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:RdCdnRQlp_xxmuTfRVn-ow@wideopenwest.com...
>
> "Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote in message
> news:4278ebd5$0$73632$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
>> http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/11...
>>
>
> Husband was next of kin therfore husbands choice, not yours or mine.
>

"we"?
Anonymous
May 5, 2005 11:47:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> writes:

> http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/11...

I know you're just trolling, but come on, this is weak sauce even from
you.

Find some better material, or at least read the article before setting
up your camp under the bridge. The man was in a coma for only 2.5
months -- and being comatose is quite different from being in a
vegetative state.

Nick

--
# sigmask (lambda deprecation version) 20041028 || feed this to a python
print ''.join([chr(ord(x)-1) for x in 'Ojdl!Wbshjti!=ojdlAwbshjti/psh?'])
Anonymous
May 5, 2005 12:05:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Nick Vargish" <nav+posts@bandersnatch.org> wrote in message
news:87fyx1hp36.fsf@localhost.localdomain...
> "Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> writes:
>
> > http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/11...
>
> I know you're just trolling, but come on, this is weak sauce even from
> you.
>
> Find some better material, or at least read the article before setting
> up your camp under the bridge. The man was in a coma for only 2.5
> months -- and being comatose is quite different from being in a
> vegetative state.
>
> Nick
>

I didn't want to sign up to read the article on the link above, but I seem
to recall that this man's accident happened a decade ago. Though he was
comatose for only a few months, he hadn't spoken or responded to anyone in
ten years. So it is more relevant that you might think. The fact is, we
don't really have a full understanding of brain injuries and how/why some
people recover while others do not.

Florida law allowed Schiavo's husband to remove her feeding tube, but as she
was not otherwise being kept alive by machinery, as the husband's motives
were somewhat suspect, as there was no evidence of Schiavo's true wishes,
and as her parents were willing and able to care for her, I still think
there should have been a presumption in favor of life.

Given the outcome of the legal battle, though, she should have at least been
given a lethal injection. Make no mistake about it--we did not "allow" her
to die on her own any more than we would allow a baby to die if we didn't
feed it. We killed her, plain and simple. If her death was as "euphoric" as
her husband's Hemlock Society lawyer claimed, why didn't they allow cameras
inside to film her "peaceful" death?
Anonymous
May 5, 2005 12:42:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

> "Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote in message
> news:4279147c$0$73668$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
> >
> > So any husband can just decide to kill his wife?

Worked for O.J.
Anonymous
May 5, 2005 3:03:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Boody Bandit" <boodybandit@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:EbqdnTOl-NVKieffRVn-1Q@suscom.com...

>> > So any husband can just decide to kill his wife?
>
> Worked for O.J.

Yes. We could have saved tons of money by just keeping that out of the
courts and between a husband and wife...

Um, but weren't they divorced? Oh, no matter. Terri's husband was
adultering, so the whole actually being a husband thing is moot.

Go OJ!
Anonymous
May 5, 2005 3:04:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"sardu" <robertaccomandonospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:rXeee.7043$BE3.6842@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...

> "we"?

Yep.
May 5, 2005 4:58:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Boody Bandit" <boodybandit@hotmail.com> wrote in news:EbqdnTOl-
NVKieffRVn-1Q@suscom.com:

>
>
>> "Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote in message
>> news:4279147c$0$73668$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
>> >
>> > So any husband can just decide to kill his wife?
>
> Worked for O.J.
>
>

Don't forget Robert Blake
Anonymous
May 5, 2005 8:02:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Android" <androvich@NOcomcastSPAM.net> writes:

> I didn't want to sign up to read the article on the link above,

I didn't either. Check out http://bugmenot.com for a solution to those
pesky "free registration required" sites.

> Though he was comatose for only a few months, he hadn't spoken or
> responded to anyone in ten years. So it is more relevant that you
> might think.

Scans of Schiavo's brain showed that the part of the brain involved in
higher-order operations had atrophied and the volume replaced by
cerebrospinal fluid. I don't believe that was the case with this
man -- in fact, it obviously wasn't, since he regained speech.

> Given the outcome of the legal battle, though, she should have at least been
> given a lethal injection.

I agree with that to a degree, especially since Florida does execute
criminals which obviates the "state as murderer" argument.

> We killed her, plain and simple. If her death was as "euphoric" as
> her husband's Hemlock Society lawyer claimed, why didn't they allow cameras
> inside to film her "peaceful" death?

To give her last moments a little dignity and privacy? Two
considerations that had been conspicuously absent for the last several
months of her existence (note I did not say "life").

Nick

--
# sigmask (lambda deprecation version) 20041028 || feed this to a python
print ''.join([chr(ord(x)-1) for x in 'Ojdl!Wbshjti!=ojdlAwbshjti/psh?'])
Anonymous
May 5, 2005 9:52:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Nick Vargish" <nav+posts@bandersnatch.org> wrote in message
news:87y8atfnlu.fsf@localhost.localdomain...

> Scans of Schiavo's brain showed that the part of the brain involved in
> higher-order operations had atrophied and the volume replaced by
> cerebrospinal fluid. I don't believe that was the case with this
> man -- in fact, it obviously wasn't, since he regained speech.

The point was that he shouldn't have been able to regain speech. The quote
from the experts was that they know little about it.

>> Given the outcome of the legal battle, though, she should have at least
>> been
>> given a lethal injection.
>
> I agree with that to a degree, especially since Florida does execute
> criminals which obviates the "state as murderer" argument.

Don't you know the definition of murder? Your statement is non-sequitor.

>> We killed her, plain and simple. If her death was as "euphoric" as
>> her husband's Hemlock Society lawyer claimed, why didn't they allow
>> cameras
>> inside to film her "peaceful" death?
>
> To give her last moments a little dignity and privacy?

No. It was, as always, to sanitize the situation to help people like
yourself from having to actually have a compassionate thought.

> Two
> considerations that had been conspicuously absent for the last several
> months of her existence (note I did not say "life").

She was obviously alive or there wouldn't have been the huge debate on
killing her.
Anonymous
May 6, 2005 2:40:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Boody Bandit" <boodybandit@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:YeadndeOTbNx0ObfRVn-2A@suscom.com...

>> Out of curiosity, how did they tell that deaf and blind person that?
>
> Yeah I guess I should've explained it better.
> They told her family.

I see. I was wondering if they had to teach her how to communicate some
other way before they could tell her that. Like Helen Keller, and what not.

That's really amazing, though.
Anonymous
May 6, 2005 7:29:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Doug Jacobs" <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
news:117njdqn86nuba0@corp.supernews.com...

> While there is no doubt that there is much about the brain we don't know
> or understand, one has to consider statistics. For every case like your
> friend, there are many other similar cases where the diagnosis was
> accurate. Even then, you have to consider statistics. No diagnosis is
> going to be 100% accurate.
>
> So there was always a non-zero percent chance that Ms. Schiavo could have
> recovered, but as time goes on, the chance of her regaining consciousness
> is going to get lower and lower - approaching, but never quite becoming,
> zero.

So, kill people even though there is a chance for recovery...
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 5:32:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote in message
news:427bd337$0$73723$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
> "Doug Jacobs" <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
> news:117njdqn86nuba0@corp.supernews.com...
>
>> While there is no doubt that there is much about the brain we don't know
>> or understand, one has to consider statistics. For every case like your
>> friend, there are many other similar cases where the diagnosis was
>> accurate. Even then, you have to consider statistics. No diagnosis is
>> going to be 100% accurate.
>>
>> So there was always a non-zero percent chance that Ms. Schiavo could have
>> recovered, but as time goes on, the chance of her regaining consciousness
>> is going to get lower and lower - approaching, but never quite becoming,
>> zero.
>
> So, kill people even though there is a chance for recovery...
>

Or we could increase income taxes for everyone so the funds are available to
keep all of these patients alive. How much are you willing to give out of
your paycheck for coma patients in a PVS???
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 1:30:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Daniel G." <Danny73@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ApmdnZkXEvDwzOHfRVn-tQ@wideopenwest.com...

>> So, kill people even though there is a chance for recovery...
>
> Or we could increase income taxes for everyone so the funds are available
> to keep all of these patients alive.

How many do you think there are? I'm sure that it wouldn't affect it much.

> How much are you willing to give out of your paycheck for coma patients in
> a PVS???

The parents wanted to pay for her. Your point is moot.
!